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Speaker 1: Or Hey, is it time to start the podcast? My

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Speaker 1: clock says we still have five minutes. Well, my watch

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Speaker 1: says we're five minutes late. Which one's right? Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: both wrong, or maybe they're both right. How is that possible?

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Speaker 1: I know you're the physicist. You tell me something about relativity.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I can't use relativity to understand cartoonists and their

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Speaker 1: slippery relationship with time. Well, there's no time like the present.

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Speaker 1: This is going to take some time. Hi am jorgem

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Speaker 1: made Cartoonists and the co author of Frequently Asked Questions

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Speaker 1: about the Universe. Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist

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Speaker 1: and a professor UC Irvine, and I seem to never

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Speaker 1: ever have enough time. Really, I guess professors are pretty busy.

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Speaker 1: Or did you live in a different space time there

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Speaker 1: in your physics department. Yeah. I try to travel at

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Speaker 1: very high velocities so I can take advantage of time

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Speaker 1: dilation when I'm answering my emails. Oh, I see, you

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Speaker 1: try to write them as fast as possible. Is that

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Speaker 1: how it goes? Like all economics. I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: as much done in as little time as possible. But

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Speaker 1: you're also quite busy with all of your projects. I

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Speaker 1: am yeah, I'm I get pretty busy. But do you know,

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Speaker 1: as they say, we don't have the time. You gotta

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Speaker 1: make the time. Physicists can make time, right, That's a

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Speaker 1: magic power you guys have. We don't even understand what

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Speaker 1: time is, man not to mention how to make more

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Speaker 1: of it. Well, it's time to tell people. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio in which we take the time

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Speaker 1: to delve into the deepest mysteries of the universe. How

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Speaker 1: it works, how it flows, what it's fundamental nature is.

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Speaker 1: What are the basic building blocks of this crazy, insane

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Speaker 1: universe that we live in and so thoroughly enjoy, including

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Speaker 1: questions like what is the nature of space itself? How

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Speaker 1: does time flow? Is time part of space? Is space

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Speaker 1: part of time? Is it all together a big part

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Speaker 1: of space? Time? What the heck is going on? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: That's right, because there's no time like the present to

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Speaker 1: study and think about time itself and the present and

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Speaker 1: the future and the past of this crazy and amazing

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Speaker 1: universe that seems to somehow sometimes defy our understanding. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people. Imagine that physicists who are

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Speaker 1: trying to understand the universe are working on like really

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Speaker 1: deep difficult questions, questions you wouldn't even understand if you

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Speaker 1: heard somebody say it out loud. But the opposite is true.

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Speaker 1: Physinicesis who are working on the nature or the universe

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Speaker 1: are still asking the same questions that people have been asking.

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Speaker 1: Basically since people have been asking questions, what is space? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: How does time work? Because we've made almost zero progress

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Speaker 1: understanding these basic things about the universe. I thought you

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Speaker 1: were going to say that the opposite is true, that

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Speaker 1: physicists don't actually work. So I thought that was where

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Speaker 1: you were going. You know, like most things that abut philosophy,

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Speaker 1: it's all about your definition of work. That phys has

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Speaker 1: had a very clear definition of what work is. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: if I'm lying on my couch and I'm not moving

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Speaker 1: in relation to any divorces, am I technically not doing

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Speaker 1: any work? I don't know, but I'm getting paid anyway,

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Speaker 1: So technically the I R S calls it work. So

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Speaker 1: already we're gonna tangle. Yeah, it's called special I R

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Speaker 1: S relativity. I think you can go to jail for

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Speaker 1: that for a relatively long time to Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: do time in in jail. Also, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about time? But it is an amazing universe and sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to comprehend. I mean, we sort

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Speaker 1: of think we know what's going on. We have some

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Speaker 1: sort of intuition that we have grown up with or

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Speaker 1: have heard about through physics classes and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But as we learn more about the universe, the more

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Speaker 1: it presents challenges for our ability to understand it. And

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Speaker 1: the funnest questions are the most basic ones, the ones

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Speaker 1: that try to dig into the very firmament of our understanding,

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Speaker 1: that like push on the boundaries of the possible, you know,

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Speaker 1: that ask what if the universe was slightly different? What

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Speaker 1: if this basic thing we think is always true about

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Speaker 1: the universe wasn't actually true, or was different or was

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Speaker 1: different here than it is in Alpha Centauri. When I

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Speaker 1: was a kid struggling to wrap my mind around the

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Speaker 1: questions of the universe, this was one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: ones to think about. What if space and time were

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Speaker 1: different in some way? What if the way we moved

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Speaker 1: through space, the very feeling and nature of space itself,

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Speaker 1: was not the way that we thought it was was

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Speaker 1: somehow fundamentally different. Yeah, and we're all about asking crazy

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Speaker 1: fundamental questions, and so today on the podcast we'll be asking,

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Speaker 1: are there two dimensions of time? And Daniel here, you

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Speaker 1: don't mean like cartoonist time and physicist time, right, you

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Speaker 1: mean like actual dimensions of time. Cartoonist time and physicists

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Speaker 1: time can't actually be brought into a single mathematical framework

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Speaker 1: because one is imaginary. So it's impossible. Is that the

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Speaker 1: Eisenberg cartoonist physicists uncertainty principle exactly? That's the two car

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Speaker 1: tune is actually read their email on certainty principle, which

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Speaker 1: we have pressed dos limits on this project. But this

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Speaker 1: really fun question, and before we dig into it, I'll

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Speaker 1: note that, you know, we actually got to the question

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Speaker 1: of the episode before the ten minute mark, which is

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Speaker 1: something of a record for us, speaking of Hey, maybe

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Speaker 1: we're moving in a whole new time dimension right now.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if people are confused, they're like, what they're

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Speaker 1: actually getting to the point exactly. I think there might

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Speaker 1: be folks out there that just skip the first ten

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Speaker 1: minutes of the podcast. It's mostly us talking about chocolate

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Speaker 1: and bananas. I have seen those complaints on the on

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Speaker 1: the Apple reviews. But you know, some people love that

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Speaker 1: bit and some people don't, So hey, skip if you like,

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Speaker 1: don't skip people don't. Yeah, there you go. You can't

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Speaker 1: go back in time on a podcast player, so but

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Speaker 1: you can't go forward in time, so feel free to

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Speaker 1: skip forward if you're not enjoying this anyway, while we

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Speaker 1: celebrate getting to the topic of the podcast without spending

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Speaker 1: too much time at chit chat chatting away all that

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Speaker 1: precious time. Yeah, let's get to it here, Daniel, this

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Speaker 1: is an interesting question. So are there two dimensions of time?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I wouldn't even have thought to ask this

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Speaker 1: question before an hour ago. Well, that's what's so fun

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Speaker 1: about it, because even the related question are there other

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Speaker 1: dimensions of space? Is one that's hard to grapple with,

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Speaker 1: This idea that space has three dimensions and what if

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Speaker 1: there are more? Right, But now we know there are

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Speaker 1: connections between space and time, and people sometimes think about

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Speaker 1: time itself as a dimension. So if there can be

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Speaker 1: multiple dimensions of space more than three up to twenty six,

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Speaker 1: why not time? And these questions in physics or the

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Speaker 1: philosophy of physics sometimes just start with that, why can't

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Speaker 1: things be this other way? Yeah, it seems nonsense you immediately,

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Speaker 1: but maybe that's just because of the way you've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about the universe. The universe itself doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: obey your restrictions, right. I feel like that's a big

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Speaker 1: part of being a physicist is is sitting around thinking,

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Speaker 1: what if there are more? We need more, bigger, faster,

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Speaker 1: more of them. We definitely do, And that's one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite parts of physics, not just actively sitting around

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Speaker 1: and wondering if the universe could be different, but looking

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Speaker 1: back through the history of physics and finding those more

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Speaker 1: it's those incredible realizations when we discover that the universe

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Speaker 1: actually is quite different from the way we had always

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Speaker 1: assumed it to be. From understanding that the universe might

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Speaker 1: be billions of years old instead of thousands, to understand

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Speaker 1: that the universe could be infinite, to understanding how space

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Speaker 1: and time flow, to figuring out that quantum mechanics rules

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Speaker 1: the microscopic universe. There are all these moments when somebody

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Speaker 1: has finally understood the universe is not the way that

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Speaker 1: we expected it was, And the way to make those

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Speaker 1: discoveries is to keep asking those kinds of questions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the universe has surprises of many times in the past

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Speaker 1: and hopefully I also in the future, and especially with

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Speaker 1: this interesting question about whether there are more dimensions of time,

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Speaker 1: because I think most people just assumed there's just one time, right.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people ignore time. There's time zones. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we mostly imagine that time flows, and that it only

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Speaker 1: flows in one direction, right, and that it can only

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Speaker 1: flow either forwards or backwards, because we think of time

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Speaker 1: as having just a single dimension to it right, forwards

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Speaker 1: and backwards, not like strange plane of time or cube

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Speaker 1: of time or something even crazier. Although I do give

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Speaker 1: my kids a lot of time out, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: think they feel like they're in a separate dimension when

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Speaker 1: they have to wait for it to run out step

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Speaker 1: into the cryod chamber? Kids? Is that a Star Wars

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Speaker 1: reference there to Solo carbonite? Do you think I carbonite

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Speaker 1: my kids? I don't know how you make your choices, man,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not judging anybody's parent game correct. When you

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Speaker 1: say time out, it could mean a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, Yes, I could stick him in the room

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Speaker 1: with like candy and video games. That would be a

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Speaker 1: parenting choice. Yes, I don't want to alienate any of

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Speaker 1: our listeners, but it is an interesting question, and as usual,

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Speaker 1: we were wondering how many people out there had taken

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Speaker 1: the time to think about time in this way and

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Speaker 1: to wonder if there's more than one dimension of time.

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Speaker 1: So thank you very much to everybody who volunteers to

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Speaker 1: answer these weird and wonderful questions about the universe. They

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Speaker 1: give us a sense for what people are thinking and

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Speaker 1: what people already know. We'd love to have you participate

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Speaker 1: for a future episode, so please write to ask two

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Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Moorhe dot com. Everybody's welcome to

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Speaker 1: think about it for some time. Do you think there

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Speaker 1: is more than one time dimension? Here's what people had

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Speaker 1: to say. There could be more dimensions, more time dimensions

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Speaker 1: the one most likely it can be more than two.

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Speaker 1: But since we can only perceive one, maybe this one

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Speaker 1: that we perceive it has, for instance, the past, the future,

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Speaker 1: and the present. Maybe you can see we can split

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Speaker 1: it in three dimensions. I'm not certain of how the

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Speaker 1: second time commension would work. I'm going to go with maybe,

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Speaker 1: but I can't think of a good way to structure

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Speaker 1: that right now. I believe time is undimensional because, as

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Speaker 1: for our current understanding, physiquets theoretically possible to travel forward

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Speaker 1: in time if you try really at the speed of

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Speaker 1: light a little to something. But I don't see any

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Speaker 1: theories that suggests that it's possible to travel backwards same time.

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Speaker 1: So we can only go forward. So yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: what I think. It's one dimension, So I guess forward

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Speaker 1: and back would be one dimension. So two dimensions is

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Speaker 1: like a sheet of paper. That is very hard to

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Speaker 1: think about. Um, I'm just gonna go off. No, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to me. Oh, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I think that would be really cool, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it means, though, I would say there couldn't

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Speaker 1: be a second dimension of time unless there is the

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Speaker 1: multi universe theory and that there's your exexes, which is

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Speaker 1: timing forward. But then there's also the way acts of

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Speaker 1: many different times moving forward. Um, but if that's not

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Speaker 1: the case, I'd say, no, there's only one dimension of time.

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Speaker 1: All right. Some interesting answers here. How much time do

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Speaker 1: you think people spend thinking about this answer? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but I think it increased the fraction of their lives

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Speaker 1: where their minds were blown, which I'm sure it was

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Speaker 1: timely and right in time. Well, that's really the goal

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Speaker 1: of this podcast is just to share the joy of

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Speaker 1: having your mind blown, of thinking about the universe in

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Speaker 1: a new way. So I love hearing in real time

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Speaker 1: these folks grappling with this crazy and difficult question that

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Speaker 1: I totally admit I have trouble with. Also, well, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people here seem to think that there couldn't

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Speaker 1: be more than one time to mention. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: we're sort of used to the past and the present

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Speaker 1: and that's it. But I like this answer here that

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Speaker 1: says that maybe in a multiverse there is more than

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Speaker 1: one time, right, Like each universe would have its own time,

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Speaker 1: if there is a multiverse, Yeah, in the sense that

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Speaker 1: each universe would have its own space and its own time.

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Speaker 1: I think this question is more about whether our particular universe,

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Speaker 1: our space time, has more than one time dimensioned. You know,

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Speaker 1: if there are other universes out there that have their

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Speaker 1: own space, that doesn't like give you a new way

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Speaker 1: to move left, right, up, down, forward, backwards. So that

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Speaker 1: seems to me like a bit of a marble loophole, which,

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Speaker 1: as we know, are terrible ideas because they don't make

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Speaker 1: any money at all. But it is a sort of

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Speaker 1: a loople that you didn't quite a specify in your

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Speaker 1: question though, So technically they could be right, yeah, push

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Speaker 1: the boundaries people exactly think creatively. It was Kevin Figy,

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Speaker 1: the producer at Marvel who that will phone in with

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Speaker 1: that answer. Kevin, give us a call. We'd love to

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Speaker 1: have you on the podcast. But it is interesting to

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Speaker 1: think that maybe there is not just the one time

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Speaker 1: that we have here in our universe. There could be

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Speaker 1: maybe more time dimensions. And so Daniel, let's step through

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Speaker 1: this for people, and let's start with the basics. What

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Speaker 1: exactly is a dimension? Right? Dimension is one of the

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Speaker 1: most misused words in science fiction. You see it all

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Speaker 1: the time, people traveling to another dimension. And when they

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Speaker 1: say dimension in science fiction, really they mean some other universe,

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Speaker 1: some complete other existence, maybe with different rules of physics,

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Speaker 1: different space, maybe different time, whatever, different crazy beings covered

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Speaker 1: in Marshmallows, who knows what. It's sort of just like somewhere.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the physics definition of a dimension. That's

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Speaker 1: the science fiction definition of a dimension. Right. In sci

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Speaker 1: fi movies and TV shows, they always like open a

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Speaker 1: door into another dimension and you step through it and

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Speaker 1: it's like you're in a different version of your universe,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's like slightly different, like the Upside Down

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Speaker 1: and Stranger Things. Yes, Stranger Things is a great example

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Speaker 1: of another location, and they don't actually call it a

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Speaker 1: dimension in Stranger Things, which I like. But that's sort

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Speaker 1: of like the concept people have in their mind of

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Speaker 1: another dimension. But when physicist talking about a dimension, they

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Speaker 1: just mean a direction that you can move in. So

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Speaker 1: our space has three dimensions to it. If you draw

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Speaker 1: a straight line through space, you can move along that line.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that line is like forwards and backwards. Now draw

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Speaker 1: another line that's perpendicular to that line. That's another direction

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Speaker 1: you can move in. And because you've made them perpendicular,

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Speaker 1: motion in one is independent from motion in the other.

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Speaker 1: Like if you have now have two lines X and Y,

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Speaker 1: you can completely describe the location anywhere on a two

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Speaker 1: dimensional plane, and emotion in X can change your motion

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Speaker 1: in Wise, you really need two dimensions to describe a plane,

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Speaker 1: and then there's a third dimension you can add, which

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Speaker 1: is perpendicular to both X and Y, called it Z.

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Speaker 1: For example, maybe the up and down so we have

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Speaker 1: three dimensions of space that we're aware of, and you

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Speaker 1: can't add a fourth there's no way to add another

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Speaker 1: line has a ninety degree angle to x and y

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Speaker 1: and z. There isn't like room for it in our

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Speaker 1: space that we're aware of. Well, there's no room for

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Speaker 1: it in three dimensional space for a fourth dimension by definition, right,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean it's not mathematically possible. It is

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Speaker 1: mathematically possible to create four dimensional spaces. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about our physical universe. Our space feels like it has

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Speaker 1: three D in it because it feels like it's well

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Speaker 1: described mathematically in three dimensions. But you're right, you could

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Speaker 1: potentially have a four D space, and mathematicians have no

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Speaker 1: limit to the number of dimensions they can imagine. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to sort of grapple with and have a visual

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Speaker 1: of it. But in a four dimensional space, there is

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Speaker 1: another dimension which is perpendicular to all the other three,

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Speaker 1: meaning that there's some way you can move, some direction

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Speaker 1: you can slide in that isn't described by the previous

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Speaker 1: three dimensions. There's like version of this three dimensional space,

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Speaker 1: and then you move along that fourth dimension, there's another

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Speaker 1: version of that three dimensional space. So space really has

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Speaker 1: like another digit to it, right, So that's three dimensional space,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're all, you know, pretty familiar with it,

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Speaker 1: having grown up with it all our lives, where that

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Speaker 1: you can, you know, move forward and backwards and up

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Speaker 1: and down and left and right, and they're all sort

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Speaker 1: of independent. But then there's also the idea that maybe

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Speaker 1: time is a dimension, right, and in fact, that maybe

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Speaker 1: time is like a brother or a sister to the

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Speaker 1: space dimensions. Yeah, it's a really fun idea and it's

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Speaker 1: really sort of mathematically beautiful, but it's not something that

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Speaker 1: physicists really understand, and it goes to the heart of

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest conflicts and open problems in modern physics,

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Speaker 1: which is who's correct quantum mechanics or relativity, Because these

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Speaker 1: two theories, which are like the pillars of physics, have

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Speaker 1: different views about what time is and whether it's a

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Speaker 1: dimension in the way that space is. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with relativity, because relativity is the idea that connects space

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Speaker 1: and time really intimately. It says, like, you know, space

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Speaker 1: by itself and time by itself don't really make sense

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Speaker 1: to think about independently. To make more sense if you

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Speaker 1: bundle them together into some four dimensional object we call

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Speaker 1: space time. So you take the three dimensions of space

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Speaker 1: and you add time to it. You have this now

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Speaker 1: mathematically four dimensional construct which you can treat as if

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Speaker 1: it was a four dimensional space time. Right. That happens

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Speaker 1: in the math where you just kind of like add

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Speaker 1: another you know, space in your vectors to to think

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Speaker 1: about time. But in a sort of interesting way, it

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Speaker 1: sort of kind of means that time is sort of

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Speaker 1: another way that we can move, or another thing or

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Speaker 1: another direction that we can move through. And that's kind

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Speaker 1: of true, right, Like we're moving forwards and time as

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Speaker 1: if we were moving along direction there we are moving

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Speaker 1: along a time access. And that's why mathematically it's sort

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Speaker 1: of possible to combine these things. I think it's also

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Speaker 1: worth spending a moment thinking about, like why you would

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Speaker 1: do that, How do you justify that? Because in principle,

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Speaker 1: you can combine anything. You know, you could add apples

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Speaker 1: to space, and so I have now an apple dimension

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Speaker 1: or something counts the number of apples in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Like that doesn't necessarily make sense or give you any

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Speaker 1: extra explanatory power about the universe, but adding space and

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Speaker 1: time together really does It's one of these examples where

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Speaker 1: we see two separate things, neither of which makes sense

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Speaker 1: completely on their own, but when you both them together,

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Speaker 1: you suddenly get a crisper view, a simpler understanding. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like seeing two sides of a coin and thinking

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Speaker 1: they're totally separate and then understanding, oh, these are two

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Speaker 1: sides of the same thing. Or how we knew about

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Speaker 1: electricity and magnetism and there were things that didn't really

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Speaker 1: quite make sense until we put them together and say, actually,

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Speaker 1: this is just one thing, and we have a simpler

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Speaker 1: set of equations that describe electro magnetism instead of trying

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Speaker 1: to think about these things separately. In the same way,

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Speaker 1: when Einstein puts space and time together, a lot of

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Speaker 1: things got much simple learn In terms of the mathematics,

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Speaker 1: a lot of symmetries are obeyed by space time that

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Speaker 1: are not obeyed by space or by time separately. So

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Speaker 1: that's the that's the thing that makes relatives. People who

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Speaker 1: believe relativity is the foundational explanation of the universe convinced

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Speaker 1: that space time is a more natural way to think

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Speaker 1: about space or time. Right. It's like including time as

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Speaker 1: the dimension in the equations. Makes the equations kind of

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Speaker 1: click right like, it makes them makes sense because there

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Speaker 1: are some transformations like s in the math, and when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do physics, that just makes sense if

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Speaker 1: you also include time as a dimension. Yeah, we know

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Speaker 1: from relativity that time is not universal. You know that

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Speaker 1: depending on who's looking at the clock and their velocity

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Speaker 1: relative to it, it flows differently. And the same is

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Speaker 1: true of space that people who try to measure distances

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Speaker 1: and lengths, it depends weirdly on who you are, where

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Speaker 1: you are, and how fast you are going. But if

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Speaker 1: you combine these things, space and time together, then you

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Speaker 1: get a lot of invariants things that everybody can agree on.

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Speaker 1: If you just talk about where you are in space

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Speaker 1: time rather than just talking about where you are space,

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Speaker 1: we're just talking about where you are in time. And

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Speaker 1: you're right, fundamentally time can be viewed as a dimension

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Speaker 1: there because you're moving through it. You have a coordinate.

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Speaker 1: Now is a coordinate in time? Now plus ten seconds

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Speaker 1: is a coordinate further along that access. So if you'd

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Speaker 1: like to think about dimensions, is like these glowing arrows

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Speaker 1: through space telling you where you are, like grid lines

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Speaker 1: on a map. You can also do the same thing

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Speaker 1: for time and think about it as a coordinate of

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Speaker 1: that time dimension, right and time. I think we sometimes

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Speaker 1: use it as a good way to to sort of

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Speaker 1: illustrate what it would be like to move in higher

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Speaker 1: dimensional space, like if maybe space had four dimensions, like

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Speaker 1: time is what that extra dimension might feel like. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm here sitting on my desk in one point in

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Speaker 1: through dimensional space. But at the same time, I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of moving without thinking about it, moving through another dimension

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Speaker 1: that's independent of those three dimensions. But it's like I'm

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Speaker 1: moving through time, which means I'm moving through that dimension. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you think about like somebody on a

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Speaker 1: two D surface, imagine somebody living on a piece of paper.

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Speaker 1: You pass an orange through that piece of paper, it's

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Speaker 1: a three D object. They only see a two D

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Speaker 1: slice of it. What do they see? They see a

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Speaker 1: dot appear, Then that dot grows into a circle, and

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Speaker 1: then it shrinks back into a dot. So they're seeing

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Speaker 1: a two D circle that's changing in time. As you say,

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Speaker 1: if you're passing a three D object through the plane.

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Speaker 1: Now in our world, if somebody passed a four dimensional

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Speaker 1: orange through your kitchen what would you see. You would

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Speaker 1: see a three D orange dot appear and grow until

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Speaker 1: it's maximum value, and then shrink back down to do

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Speaker 1: a dot and disappear. So do things that like normal

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Speaker 1: three D objects can't do. So they are we using

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Speaker 1: fourth dimension of space as an example. As you say,

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Speaker 1: also sliding through time can give you that same kind

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Speaker 1: of experience. The whole three D space can change with time. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's almost like if you're sitting there and not moving,

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Speaker 1: you're not moving you through dimensional space, but your clock,

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Speaker 1: your watch is telling you how fast and then how

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Speaker 1: far you're moving through that fourth dimension exactly, and that's

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Speaker 1: all beautiful and wonderful. It seems to click together and

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Speaker 1: explains high velocity experiments and all sorts of things happening

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Speaker 1: across the universe. So it seems right. But quantum mechanics says, hmmm,

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Speaker 1: I don't agree. I think time is pretty different from that, right,

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Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics is a very different view of time, not

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Speaker 1: as a dimension, but maybe as something else. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what that quantum view of the universe is

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Speaker 1: and what it would mean to have more dimensions of time.

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Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break all right, we're

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Speaker 1: taking the time to talk about time and whether there

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Speaker 1: is more time because we have lots of time here

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Speaker 1: to talk about these interesting topics. Are there more dimensions

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Speaker 1: of time? And so we talked about how in special

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Speaker 1: relativity it's helpful to think of time as an extra dimension,

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Speaker 1: but actually quantum mechanics disagrees. It doesn't see time as

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Speaker 1: another possible dimension like the space dimensions. Yeah, and the

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00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: same way that relativity says, you've been thinking about this

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Speaker 1: all wrong. These two different things, space and time should

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Speaker 1: be thought of as parts of something larger. Quantum mechanics says,

430
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: not so fast. Quantum mechanics says, space and time really

431
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 1: are very different in important ways, and it doesn't make

432
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: any sense to put them together. And this is an

433
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: example of how difficult it is to unify these ideas

434
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics, which are of course very very successful,

435
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: with the ideas of relativity, which are also very very successful,

436
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: to understand like which description of the universe is correct.

437
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: And one of the issues is that quantum mechanics views

438
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: time as eternal. You know, quantum mechanics says that the

439
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: universe has a state like the particles have a quantum

440
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: state that can extend through space, that's no problem, and

441
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: that whole thing like clicks forward in time. So it

442
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 1: used time as a way to change the state of

443
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: the universe. Is like this evolution process where quantum states

444
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: can slash from one thing into another thing. So you

445
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: have your famous equation, the shorting their equation for example,

446
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: that describes how quantum states in space can evolve forwards

447
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: in time, but it treats those things very very different.

448
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: Time and space are very different parts of that equation.

449
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: What time is it part of those equations, part of

450
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: those quantum equations. You're just I think you're just saying

451
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: that time doesn't stand out as a separate dimension. It

452
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: just maybe is in there as a separate variable that

453
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: you think, well, this is totally different than the space dimensions.

454
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: It's totally different. It has very different properties. For example,

455
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics says that information is never destroyed, that the

456
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: current moment in the universe imprints itself on the future.

457
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: So if you have particles bouncing into each other, for example,

458
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: then what happens to those particles tells you all about

459
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: the past of the universe. And so this suggests that

460
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: you know information is constant in time, but it's not

461
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: constant in space. You know, those probabilities don't extend everywhere

462
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: through space. And it suggests something else really interesting about time.

463
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: It suggests that time is eternal. Information can never be destroyed.

464
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: It means you have the same amount of information forever.

465
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics sees no way around that. It says the

466
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: universe has to exist forever so that this information can persist,

467
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: and it must have existed forever somehow so that this

468
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: in formation could come to us from the past. So

469
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics says, like time is so powerful and so

470
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: basic and so fundamental that the universe itself must be

471
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: eternal in time. Right. Time is very special according to

472
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not

473
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: another dimension, or that it's not part of space time,

474
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: or does it? Is there something about what quantum mechanics

475
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: says that contradicts what special relativity says that it can't

476
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: be a part of space time. I think it's possible

477
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: in the future somehow to unify quantum mechanics and gravity

478
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: and general relativity into a holistic understanding. So it's not

479
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: totally impossible, But I would say that currently quantum mechanics

480
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: puts space and time on very different footing. You know.

481
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: Another consequence of this is that relativity, for example, which

482
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: bundles space and time together, says that space and time

483
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: might have had a beginning. There could have been a

484
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: point before the Big Bang when there was no space

485
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: and time. As hard as that it is to even

486
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: think about, like a time when there was no time, right,

487
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of contradictory even to say it out loud.

488
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: But quantum mechanics says the opposite. And it all has

489
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: to do with this idea. Information can't be deleted, and

490
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: so the universe has to be permanent. So that's just

491
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: an example of how relativity and quantum mechanics could describe

492
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: very different universes. And that's because quantum mechanics has a

493
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: very different relationship with time than it does with space,

494
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: whereas relativity bundles them together in a more natural way. Well,

495
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: I think the question is whether there's something about the

496
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: two theories that contradict each other. I know they both

497
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: used time differently, or think about time or look at

498
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: time differently, but is there something sort of inherently contradictory

499
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: about the two theories that about time. I think one

500
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: of the fundamental differences really is just that relativity views

501
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: time is almost equivalent to space, whereas quantum mechanics sees

502
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: them as different and treats them very differently. Another example

503
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: of how quantum mechanics treats space differently is that quantum

504
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 1: mechanics doesn't even require space to be fundamental. And you imagine, like,

505
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: what are the basic elements of the universe, the true

506
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: theory of physics, what does it contain from which everything

507
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: else springs. Well, quantum mechanics says, space itself doesn't even

508
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: have to be a necessary part of the universe. You

509
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: can have a universe without any space. You just have

510
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of quantum states flowing through time without being

511
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: arranged in this pattern that we think of us three

512
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: dimensional space, and then space can sort of emerge as

513
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: these quantum states, like we've themselves together into this fabric

514
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: that has this sort of adjacency matrix relationship that we

515
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: find familiar in space. So quantum mechanics allows space itself

516
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: to like emerge, to not even be a fundamental part

517
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: of the universe, but still time itself in that picture

518
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: is fundamental. So I think that's just another illustration of

519
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: how quantum mechanics views time is fundamentally very different from space. Well,

520
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: the weird thing is that they're sort of both right

521
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: or they're both wrong, Like they both are there and

522
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: they both neem to describe the universe we live in.

523
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: And so either one of them is right and the

524
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: other one's wrong, or they're both a right in a

525
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: in a way or in certain ways right, or they're

526
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: both wrong in certain ways. Yeah, they're definitely both wrong

527
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: in certain ways and both right in certain ways. They're

528
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: probably just like two different sides of a bigger picture

529
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: that unifies all of these ideas. And this is what

530
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: I love about the philosophy of physics is that you're

531
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: trying to get an understanding the universe. You have a

532
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: mathematical theory that tells you how things work, and then

533
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: you look at and you ask what does that mean?

534
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: What does that really tell me about how the universe

535
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: is fundamentally And these two different theories give us very

536
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: different pictures of what the universe is right, what's really

537
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: going on? And so they can't both be right, you know,

538
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: because the universe is one thing and no other thing.

539
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: But we just don't know where that final theory is,

540
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: the theory of quantum gravity, that we give us a

541
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: harmonious description of all of this stuff and maybe an

542
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: understanding deep down of what these things are space and time. Okay,

543
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: So then today we're sort of considering the special relativity

544
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: viewpoint almost in a way, right, because we are sort

545
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: of asking the question if there are more dimensions of

546
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: time itself? And so I guess what makes us ask

547
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: this question, Daniel? Why would we question time? We don't

548
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: question time because we need to, only because you want to,

549
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: only because it's fine. And yes, absolutely, it's not like

550
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: we needed to explain some weird thing we've seen in

551
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: the universe, right, that's experimentally driven. This is just theoretically driven.

552
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: This is just like fundamentally musing about the very nature

553
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: of the universe. And I think it's fascinating that we

554
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: have these numbers in physics. You know, space has three dimensions?

555
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: Why three? Why not to? Why not seven? Why not nine?

556
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: Every time you see a number in physics you have

557
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: to ask why that number? And that includes when you

558
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: see just one. So if you say, well, space doesn't

559
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: have to have just one dimension. We don't live in

560
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: a one dimensional universe. So if time is also a dimension,

561
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: why not ask that same question about time? That's really

562
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: the motivation, that's where it comes right. And also, I mean,

563
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: we sort of don't really know what time is, as

564
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: we've been talking about for like ten minutes. We like

565
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: the physics don't really have a solid concept of what

566
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: time is, and so you might as well ask, like,

567
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: maybe there's more to time than we even think. Absolutely,

568
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: time is one of those really basic things we struggle with.

569
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: There's so many things we don't know about it, like

570
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: if it is a dimension, and why is it so

571
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: different from space? You know, why does it only flow forwards?

572
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Why can't you go backwards in time? Why can you

573
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: only experience every location in time once in your life,

574
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: but space you can go back and forth as many

575
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: times as you like. You know. It seems related to

576
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: space obviously, but also fundamentally different. So yeah, there's basic

577
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: questions about the nature of time, and sometimes the way

578
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: to crack these deep mysteries is just ask all the

579
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: crazy random questions that come into your mind, like maybe

580
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: we're missing some slices of time, maybe we're only seeing

581
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: one line through a larger dimensional time, right, And in fact,

582
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: there are theories in physics that suggest that maybe there

583
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: are more dimensions to time, right exactly. Some of the

584
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: theories that try to describe the fundamental nature of the

585
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,959
Speaker 1: universe that we're talking about the unify quantum mechanics and relativity.

586
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: Of these theories, like string theory, require additional dimensions, usually

587
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: of space, but some variants of string theory also require

588
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: additional dimensions of time. And when we say require, we

589
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: mean that the mathematics works best if the universe has

590
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: is different property. If the universe has eleven or twenty

591
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: six dimensions, two of which are three of which our

592
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: time dimensions, then the mathematics of string theory works best, right,

593
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: And so that suggests and maybe there are more dimensions

594
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: of time. But Daniel, this is kind of bonkers, like

595
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: how would that even work? It is really hard to

596
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: think about, and that's what makes it really fun because

597
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: it challenges you. You know, your brain has been raised

598
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: in a three plus one universe, three space dimensions and

599
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: one time dimension. So as hard as it is to

600
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: think about like a fourth dimension of space, like where

601
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: would that be? Try to nudge yourself out of your

602
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: intuition and like let yourself just think mathematically even harder

603
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: to think about what it would mean to have a

604
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: second dimension of time. You know. One of the challenges

605
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: in doing that is that in space, we have examples

606
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: already of multiple dimensions of space. Like we went through

607
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: that exercise of thinking about how a two D person

608
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: would see a three D object, and that gives us

609
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: some intuition for how a three D person would see

610
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: a four D object. Right, we know like how to extrapolate.

611
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: We have a sense for sort of the trend the

612
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: directionality of the ideas, but we only have one example

613
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: of time, and so it's really hard to know how

614
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: to go from one dimension of time to two dimensions

615
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: of time. Right, It's like, brain wise, it's much more difficult. Yeah,

616
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: my my brain is kind of freezing up here just

617
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: trying to think about it. So I let's maybe paint

618
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: the picture to our listeners about how it might work.

619
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting here in my desk talking to you,

620
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: and time is moving forward in one direction. Right. You're

621
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: saying like, maybe like at one point there could be

622
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: another branch of time, Like maybe the apple I have

623
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: here in front of me could maybe moving along as

624
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: separate time axes, and you know, I would see a

625
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: decay and rod really quickly or something or instantaneously. Maybe

626
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: there's a few varieties of what it might mean, but

627
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: I think the important thing to keep in your mind

628
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: is if there's another dimension of time that means that

629
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: every object has two coordinates. It's not like I'm along

630
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: one dimension of time and you're along your own dimension

631
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: of time right where there's both two separate one dimensions

632
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: of time, and instead to think of time as a plane,

633
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: right the way you can go from a line to

634
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: a plane in terms of thinking about space. Now, try

635
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: to go from a timeline to a time plane where

636
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: every point on that plane has two coordinates in time.

637
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: So it's like in normal time, it's May two thousand

638
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: twenty three, and in the second dimension of time, the

639
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: clocks read something else. And now every point in that

640
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: plane has a different value for clock one and for

641
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: clock two, or another way to say it is now

642
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: it takes two clocks to specify what time it is. WHOA, Yeah,

643
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: that's wild. Like I can have one watch on my

644
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: left wrist and I can have another watch on my

645
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: right wrist, and they would be, you know, maybe moving

646
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: at different rates or telling me different times, but I

647
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: need both of them to sort of know where I

648
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: am in time, Yes, exactly, And it allows you to

649
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: do weird things. And we don't even really know how

650
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: to think about and have a lot rely a lot

651
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: on our intuition for thinking about space. For example, if

652
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: you're a one deep person, you don't understand what it

653
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: means to like turn a corner, right, Whereas in a

654
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: two D world you understand what a corner is. You know,

655
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: you can have a square and you can walk around it,

656
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: you can be on one side of it, you can

657
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: see one side of it and not see another side

658
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: of it. None of these things you can do in

659
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: new one dimensional world. So try to imagine explaining to

660
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: a one dimensional person what it means to turn a corner.

661
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: They're like, what is a corner? What does that mean?

662
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: What is that? What is that like? Now we are

663
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: a one dimensional beings a long time, right, we think

664
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: that there's one time to mention, So what does it

665
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: mean to like turn a corner in two dimensional time?

666
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: Honestly my brain struggles with the concept. Well, I'm not sure.

667
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: We need to kind of go back to these analogies,

668
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: Like I think just having like a left wrist watch

669
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: and a right wrist watch might be a good way

670
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: to kind of illustrate it, right, Like, if both both

671
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: my watches are ticking along, that means I'm moving in

672
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: both time directions at the same time. But if I

673
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: suddenly see one watch freeze in time but the other

674
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: one keep going, that means that I'm right now then

675
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: moving through one dimension of time but not the other exactly.

676
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: And if we're gonna have two dimensions of time, remember

677
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: the role that time plays in physics. It allows things

678
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: to change. You know, think about a basic equation F

679
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: equals m A has like velocities in it. That's the

680
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: motion of something with respect to time. Now imagine that

681
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: there's two times in that equation. So those equations are

682
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: now telling you like how things would evolve if you

683
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: move forward in one time, or how they would evolve

684
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: you move forward in the other time. And maybe they're different, right,

685
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: Maybe flowing in time one is different than flowing in

686
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: time too. And then the question is like, how does

687
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: the universe flow along this plane? Is it a point

688
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: meandering through this plane in time? Somehow is it moving

689
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: just along one time access is it moving along both

690
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: or is it somehow like a line sweeping across this

691
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: plane right, like somehow the entire universe would be I

692
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: guess moving through both time dimensions at the same time.

693
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: I think the question is like, if my left watch

694
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: is frozen and I'm moving through time on my right

695
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: hand watch, I mean, and moving in time in the

696
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: second dimension. But let's say you're staying in the first dimension, Like,

697
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: can we even interact? Like, if we're different coordinates in time,

698
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: can you and I still talk even if our left

699
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: watches are synchronized, if our right watches are not synchronized,

700
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: does that mean we're like in totally different time points. Well,

701
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: in our universe, you certainly can interact if you're different

702
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: locations in space and different locations in time. You know,

703
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: I can send a message to the future. I can

704
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: just write something on the wall and somebody later can

705
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: come read it. I can receive messages from the past,

706
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, coming in later and looking at that wall.

707
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: So you can definitely can communicate. The question of whether

708
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: you can interact if you're different points in two D

709
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: time depends specifically on the physics of that universe. How

710
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: do things flow through these two dimensions of time? And

711
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: actually becomes quite mathematically complicated. People have studied can you

712
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: build laws of physics that have two dimensions in time

713
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: that makes sense of this? You know, you have a

714
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 1: specific thing that's happening, you know that now coming now

715
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: for two dimensions and now and then can you predict

716
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: what's going to happen tomorrow comming now versus now, comma

717
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: tomorrow versus tomorrow comma tomorrow, Like, is the physics actually

718
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: determined because in our universe we have one dimension of time.

719
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: Physics we think about it as deterministic, you know, but

720
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics aside for a moment, we think that if

721
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: you have a certain situation, we have laws of physics

722
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: that tell you what the future will hold. Does that

723
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: also work if you have two dimensions of time? Which

724
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: I think is sort of what you're asking, you know,

725
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 1: what are the rules about communicating across time? And people

726
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: have actually studied this. They've tried to build laws of

727
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: physics that allow for two dimensions of time, and you

728
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: run into a lot of trouble. Actually, there's lots of

729
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: cases where it just doesn't work. Where the universe like

730
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: can't be self consistent. Wait, wait, what do you mean

731
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: like something about our equations? Right now? Tell us you

732
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: can't have more than one dimension of time. Most of

733
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: physics is something we call an initial condition problem. We

734
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: specify the universe now and then you run it forward

735
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: in time. Right, So imagine a bunch of ping pong

736
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: balls on the table. You know their position, you know

737
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: their velocity, you can tell exactly where they're going to go,

738
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: and putting quantum mechanics aside for the moment. But what

739
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: if you have two dimensions of time? That means you

740
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: need two sets of initial conditions, right, you need to

741
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: know what happened at time equals zero along time one

742
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: access and a long time to access. So instead of

743
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: like having just a point as initial conditions, now you

744
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: have this like line of initial conditions, and some of

745
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: those things are inconsistent, right, Like, you can't always find solutions.

746
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: Some sets of initial conditions just lead to nonsense. Is

747
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: like no way to solve the wave equation to be

748
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: consistent with both sets of initial conditions. And you know

749
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: this happens a lot in physics where you just can't

750
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: find solutions. You know where you've come up with some

751
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: system that just like violates Maxwell's equations, and so you

752
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: don't get a solution where you can figure out, like

753
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: what is the electric field in the magnetic field in

754
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: that condition. So if you have two sets of conditions

755
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: in time, they can contradict each other and lead to inconsistencies. Right.

756
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is that you know, the

757
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: laws of physics, the way that we formulated with the

758
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: way we've come up with them, are sort of there

759
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: to predict what's going to happen in the future. Like

760
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: I give you a certain amount of time, how is

761
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: my position in space going to change? And so maybe

762
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: you could have a contradiction where like if I put

763
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: in this time, it tells me that I'm over here,

764
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: but if I put in this other time, it tells

765
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: me that I'm over there, and I can't be in

766
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: both places at the same time. Right, I mean, I've tried,

767
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: but it usually it doesn't work. Yeah, And so people

768
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: have tried to fix this. They said, well, let's not

769
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: just use the laws of our universe and assume that

770
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: physics works the same way in two D time, and

771
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: ask well, what would we have to add? What extra

772
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: rules do we need to tack onto the universe to

773
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: make it work in two dimensional time. So it gets

774
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: a little hairy mathematical. But people have found some ways

775
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: to add constraints and say, well, you can't just have

776
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: any initial condition you want. You have some rules about

777
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: what initial conditions are allowed, so that you get solutions

778
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: that work for both times, So you can run one

779
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: clock forward or the other clock forward or both and

780
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: have consistent predictions. That makes sense, So it is possible.

781
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: Then it's possible if you change fundamentally the way physics

782
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: works in an interesting way. But what that means is, like,

783
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the universe is different from the way

784
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: we thought. If there are two dimensions of time, it

785
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: means that there's this new sort of rule about how

786
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: time works that doesn't apply for one dimensional time, and

787
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: that's pretty awesome. We'll definitely make making appointments a lot harder.

788
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard enough to coordinate meetings with the

789
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: one timeline, imagine having to do it in a whole

790
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: space of time. All right, Well, let's get into what

791
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: other mathematical problems this idea raises and introduces into physics,

792
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: and also whether it allows time travel, because maybe it

793
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: does So let's get into that. But first let's take

794
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: another quick break where we're talking about dimensions of time

795
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: and whether there are more than one dimensions of our

796
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: our time travels. I guess, are we actually moving in

797
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: multiple time dimensions at the same time. It would be

798
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: really awesome, man, what a discovery to make to reveal

799
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: that the universe is so different from the way everybody

800
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: has ever thought it was. That's like a real scientific fantasy.

801
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: That's sort of like the fundamental level of discovery I

802
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: would love to make. Maybe you already did, Daniel, you know,

803
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: like in another time, already did technically, maybe I already

804
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: did slash haven't yet? Yeah there you go. Know you

805
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: did it, but you went back in time because you

806
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: realized it was a bad idea. But maybe I'm just

807
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: doomed to discover it over and over. Or maybe you

808
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: did it in a in a pocket universe, you know,

809
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: a time pocket, but then you came back to the

810
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: same time and you had already forgotten. Yeah, maybe the

811
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: Daniel that makes that dangerous discovery should be stuffed into

812
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: one of those mirror universes they have like in Superman. Yeah,

813
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: a little time out for physicists instead, of cryogenically freezing me,

814
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: just stuffed me in an alternate universe. Nice because just

815
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: lots of options for taking physicists out of commission or

816
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: science fiction authors are also parents, and they think about

817
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 1: time outs a lot. Well, let's keep talking about time

818
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: and whether there are more dimensions of it. I guess

819
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: that's a big question, Daniel. Would having more dimensions of

820
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: time allow us to travel through time? Actually, I think

821
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: it's really fun to think about this because one of

822
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: my big complaints with time travel movies is that they're

823
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: fundamentally nonsense, and their fundamentally nonsense in this really important

824
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: way that I think a second dimension of time might solve. Right, So,

825
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: most time travel movies have this idea of like a timeline.

826
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: You know, things happen. You have one dimension of time.

827
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: Things are flowing along the timeline, and you know, in

828
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: our universe, the timeline is this idea, as you said earlier,

829
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: that like things can change before you ate lunch and

830
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: after you ate lunch. What's the difference. The difference is time.

831
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: Time allows things to change. But now if you're taking

832
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: a step out of that, you not on the timeline anymore,

833
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: but you're looking at the timeline, and you can see

834
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: that like the timeline itself doesn't change. You describe the history,

835
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: you're the universe. It's like a certain thing happened at

836
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: a certain time, and then a certain thing happened in

837
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: later time, etcetera, etcetera. Happens in time travel movies is

838
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: often that that timeline itself changes, right, Somebody goes off

839
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: the timeline and loops back to a previous time and

840
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: changes the timeline. And I complaint in those scenarios is

841
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: always the same as that change requires time. There's a

842
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: time before you made a change, in a time after

843
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: you made a change. The same way, that's a time

844
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: before you had lunch at a time after you had lunch.

845
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: So if you're changing the timeline, then there's a version

846
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: of the timeline before you changed it and after you

847
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: changed it. But along what time to mension is that

848
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: change happening? Right, The timeline itself can't change because change

849
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: is only along the timeline. So that's my number one

850
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: complaint with time travel movies. Maybe that gives you a

851
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: hint as to how two D time could solve that.

852
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: I get that also the sience. You have many complaints

853
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: about science at least. But I will say though that

854
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: I think, you know, people who write these movies and

855
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: these shows have gotten pretty complicated, and you know, I

856
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: think they do talk to physicists about these things. And

857
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: if you know what it is like, for example, in

858
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: the Avengers movie, they talk about they don't talk about

859
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: timelines changing. They talk about timeline splitting or you know,

860
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: like you generate a new timeline that splits off from

861
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: the original time, which doesn't technically change it just you

862
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: split off a new timeline, So they don't really talk

863
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: about timeline it's changing. Yeah, I guess it depends. Are

864
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: you thinking about splitting as a change, like the timeline

865
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: was one timeline and then it's split into two timelines,

866
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: because that would also be a form of change, or

867
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: you could think of them as sort of like the

868
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: Harry Potter version, where like it always has this weird

869
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: structure where it like forks into multiple versions in some

870
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, double quantum universe thing. But still then people

871
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: are moving from one timeline to the other. Doesn't that

872
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: require some kind of like change to the timeline. Well,

873
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: if you're just jumping between timelines, you don't need to change, right,

874
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: you can just job I mean it's science fiction that

875
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: you know in this do you take a fictional universe

876
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: you could just take be changed between times and not

877
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: how would change? Right? But I think what you're saying

878
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: is the problem is that you can't change the timeline. Right.

879
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: So like even though the Avengers went back in time

880
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: and safe half of the universe, there's still a timeline

881
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: a universe where the half of the people in the

882
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: universe are still dead, right, So that doesn't help you much. Yeah,

883
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: who's thinking about those people? Man? Like all those folks

884
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: out there not able to buy tickets for future Marvel

885
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: movies because they got snapped out of existence, right, Yeah,

886
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: they lost out on a lot of revenue there. But

887
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is that even though something

888
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: maybe these writers didn't think about is that it's to

889
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: change the timeline, like you said, would require time, right

890
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: or some some sort of change. Yeah, I think about

891
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: before you change the timeline, and after you change the timeline,

892
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: you know along what time access is that happening? Well,

893
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: the answer is maybe there's a second dimension of time.

894
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: And in these movies like Back to the Future or whatever,

895
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: you know, there seems to be this like narrative time. Right,

896
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: you're watching the movie. Things are flowing through the movie,

897
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: and you're watching the timeline change. That's implicitly another dimension

898
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: of time, right, And so in this universe, maybe if

899
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: you have multiple time dimensions, then they're not exactly equivalent

900
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: the way we're talking about a moment ago we have

901
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: like some plane where you have two coordinates in time

902
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: and they're fundamentally equivalent. In it's a metric in some way.

903
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: Maybe there are two dimensions of time, but they're different.

904
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: One like runs along the timeline and the other one

905
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: allows the timeline itself to change. Right. It's sort of

906
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: like like we talked about before, like if you have

907
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: two watches, one on your right risk and one in

908
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: your left wrist, Like you know right now my left

909
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: wrist watch is synchronize with the whole universe. Right, But

910
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: maybe I can sort of step out of time, use

911
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: some of the time and my ride watch to maybe

912
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: go back to a different point, and now I'm in

913
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: a the same universe, but shifted in time in another dimension,

914
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: in an in another direction. Right, Like you can use

915
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: the story time or time too or whatever to go

916
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: back and change the original time, and that would allow

917
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: the timeline to have a previous state in a later

918
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: state without having some sort of internal conflict. It's like

919
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: when it was because now you have this other dimensions,

920
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: additional freedom now right, right, But that's basically the same

921
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: as splitting the timeline. Right, It's like the other universe

922
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: where the half of the people got snapped out of

923
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: existence is still there, Like it's still that's still in

924
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: the plane of time. But now I'm in a better

925
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: universe where I actually got to change things. Well, it's

926
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 1: still there in the past. Yeah, but you've gone back

927
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: and you change the timeline. So the timeline according to

928
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: time too, is no longer the time in which all

929
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: those people suffer. So yeah, in the past of this universe,

930
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: there is a timeline in which those people would have suffered,

931
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: but in the future of this universe they don't. So

932
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: it's you know, you've solved the problem in a different way,

933
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: I think, right, But I think it sort of goes

934
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: back to the question I had before, Like if my

935
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: left watch and your left watch are synchronized, but my

936
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: ride watch is a different time than your right watch,

937
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: are we still able to have a regular conversation or

938
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: it might even able to shake your hand. Yeah, it

939
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: just depends on the universe are in and what rules

940
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: it follows with respect to time one and time too.

941
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: If those are very very similar, and physics respects time

942
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: one and time two in the same way, then yeah,

943
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: we can definitely interact. That depends a little bit on

944
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: the complicated special relativity of three plus two space time.

945
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: But if it's different, If time one and time two

946
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: are fundamentally different from each other, and the rules for

947
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: how time two flows aren't different from time one, then

948
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: all bets are off. I read a really fun novel

949
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: by one of my favorite authors, Greg Egan, who's a

950
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: really creative thinker about how the universe could be different,

951
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: and it's written great books like Diaspora, which I totally recommend.

952
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: And he wrote this book called dichro Knots about a

953
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: universe that has two spatial dimensions and two time dimensions,

954
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: so like really takes you through like what it would

955
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: be like to be a dichro knot a person or

956
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: a thing living in a universe with two dimensions of time.

957
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: And he's like worked out the whole physics of it

958
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: in his in his universe and at least all these

959
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: really strange consequences like sometimes water flows up hill instead

960
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: of downhill. It's really amazing cool. Yeah, check it out

961
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: that novel. And I have to say, I have tasted chronos,

962
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: so those are pretty pretty tasty. But have you had

963
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: two of them at the same time. I don't know

964
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: about dicronots. I mean I get to have two chronuts.

965
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: It's a chronic chronut sandwich. Yeah. I like these two dimensions,

966
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: all right, But maybe let's get back to physics here.

967
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: And so I think you're telling me that there's nothing

968
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: in our current equations or our knowledge of the universe

969
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: that says that you can't have more the dimensions of time,

970
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: Like we could totally have more than one dimension of time.

971
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: It could be that our universe has more than one

972
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: dimension of time. On either hand, there are no hints.

973
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: It's not like there's any evidence anywhere that requires it.

974
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: You know, in some cases there are things that would

975
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: be better or explained if we had extra dimensions of space,

976
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: like gravity and large extra dimension theories and all that

977
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. There's not even anything about that for time.

978
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: It's like maybe some versions of string theory that work

979
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: better with two D time, but it's really the speculation

980
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: on speculation, but it is possible. Yes, it's possible that

981
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: they're our two dimensions of time, and that we just

982
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: haven't noticed the second dimension yet. We don't understand how

983
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,959
Speaker 1: to experience it. We're like those two D people living

984
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 1: in a three D universe, not able to look off

985
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: the plane of our existence and understand this other way

986
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: of moving we're thinking, right, I guess it could be

987
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 1: that we're you know, it's there, but we just haven't

988
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: seen it, or it could be that we are moving

989
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: through it. It's just that the way our thinking process works,

990
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: or the way we've somehow formulated our understanding of the universe, doesn't,

991
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: you know, let us see it, or maybe we see

992
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: it all much together somehow exactly the way that relativity

993
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: has been in effect well before we discovered it, and

994
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: it was changing the way of the universe worked. We

995
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: just didn't notice it because the effects were very very

996
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: small because of the way that we lived, the speeds

997
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: and the size of our lives, and so it could

998
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: be that the universe has two dimensions of time. We

999
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: just haven't really revealed it well enough yet because of

1000
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: the particular way that we are living our lives. Interesting Alright,

1001
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: so the next time I'm late to a meeting, I

1002
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: can just day I was, I was on time and

1003
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: the other time, can I say that? Can I these

1004
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: physics as an excuse. You don't even need excuses anymore, man,

1005
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: People just expect it by now. There you go, I've

1006
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: recalibrated the universe to my time. That I it sounds

1007
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: like I want Daniel. Yeah, I think you really are

1008
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: the center of the universe. But I think it's a

1009
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: fun exercise. You know, for those of you thinking like

1010
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous, it's important to try to push the boundaries.

1011
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: And it might not be the time has two dimensions,

1012
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: or that any of the theories we talked about today

1013
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: are accurate. But it's an exercise that maybe stumbles along

1014
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: another crazy idea or forces us to invent a new

1015
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: kind of mathematics which stumulates another idea. This sort of

1016
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: like creative theoretical exploration is really really vital to solving

1017
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: the big questions about the universe. Yeah, I mean, that's

1018
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: how we discovered a lot of the amazing things we

1019
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: have discovered, right like what if the universe is quantized,

1020
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: or what if time and space are malleable? That's the

1021
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: kind of crazy question you have to ask to really

1022
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: find the truth. Yeah, you got to spend some time

1023
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: thinking crazy. All right, Well, we hope you had a

1024
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: good time listening to this discussion about time according to

1025
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: your left watch or your right watch. I think it's

1026
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: time to go see you next time. Thanks for listening,

1027
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

1028
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

1029
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1030
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Yea,