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Speaker 1: Oh, Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the drivetime radio podcast

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Speaker 1: that gets you to your work rocking with are all

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Speaker 1: our old friends Hitler and Ryan hard Heidrick all the boys.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Hitler and his friends, Hitler and his friends. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So everybody, this is Robert Evans with my with my

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Speaker 1: guests for today this week Matt leeb has Matt has

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Speaker 1: one of those boxes that radio DJs have that's makes

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Speaker 1: sounds on demand. And I'm gonna tell you right now,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a nightmare for all of you.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited. It's the only way you can actually

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Speaker 1: inject levity into Nazi atrocities is occasional air horn a horn,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then some cool, funky beats. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: a couple of a couple of pops. Yeah, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it's a few stings in there. Man. Honest. I've always

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Speaker 1: said Behind the Bastards needs to be more like a

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Speaker 1: Morning Zoo Fia exactly. Yeah. We could. We we could

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Speaker 1: get like a deep fake of l Ron Hubbard to

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Speaker 1: like come in and be against every now and again

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Speaker 1: and talk about how to kidnap his baby the best.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Boner and the Nord Tell you today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Ryan hard Hydra more like ryanrd Hydra. Ye. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. We've really, really all the goodwill that

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Speaker 1: we've built up for years of carefully doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: shattered in a second, gone because of my new equipment. Dude,

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Speaker 1: this this came with it. I don't understand. I don't

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Speaker 1: need it. It just was like, oh, here's a pad

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Speaker 1: for sounds. And I was like when you hear about

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Speaker 1: like people's who being introduced to the global economy having

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Speaker 1: not ever been brought in before, and suddenly like Coca

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Speaker 1: Cola comes to them like that at no point of

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Speaker 1: their ancestors ever processed that amount of sugar. It causes

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Speaker 1: serious health problems. That's what's happening to me. With access

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Speaker 1: to this device that you now, I am going to

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Speaker 1: destroy myself and my show. Um yes, I am someone liberated,

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Speaker 1: liberated from a work camp who gets a Hershey bar

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Speaker 1: and exactly it's just too much. Oh boy, So times

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Speaker 1: we should probably start this episode by talking about what

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Speaker 1: it means to be a hunter or a poacher right

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Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany. What Because it's not as simple as

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Speaker 1: you'd think, right. Poaching is a serious crime, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the laws that people are getting arrested under date

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Speaker 1: back to the days when the Kaiser and other nobles

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Speaker 1: are like the only people who are allowed to hunt,

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Speaker 1: or at least allowed to hunt in certain areas and right,

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Speaker 1: because you've got like a king and you've got dukes,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, these are the nice deer and

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Speaker 1: only they may hunt them. And you know, or in

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Speaker 1: this woods, all of the game belonged to this noble thing.

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Speaker 1: It was like I thought it was weird. I was

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Speaker 1: like poachers. It was it a legal, it's certain game.

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Speaker 1: It always is, right because you don't want number one,

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Speaker 1: the Nazis, it must be said, we're kind of ahead

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Speaker 1: of the curve when it came to like attitudes towards

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Speaker 1: animal welfs environmental preservation. So there is some some of

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Speaker 1: this is that like they have laws because it's like, what,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to do damage to this ecosystem. But

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Speaker 1: paradoxes of Nazism is like when Hitler is like, I'm

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Speaker 1: a vegetarian, like I dislike harming of animals. So some

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Speaker 1: of it does come from just the fact that Hitler

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Speaker 1: is kind of a guy who likes animals, and some

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Speaker 1: of it comes from a lot of it. Most of

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Speaker 1: it comes from just like there have always been these

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Speaker 1: laws because in all of Europe it's been heavily restricted

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Speaker 1: who gets to hunt. Why this is a bigger subject.

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Speaker 1: But hunting is like it's a thing in Europe in

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Speaker 1: a way it's not in the United States because among

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Speaker 1: other things, a lot of stuff like who gets to

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Speaker 1: have weapons is wrapped up and who gets to go hunting,

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Speaker 1: and like a lot of different kind of game. Number One,

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Speaker 1: because of how much longer there's been sort of settled

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Speaker 1: societies in Europe. Uh and they were never because there

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Speaker 1: is bad at environmental regulation, as white people tend to be,

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Speaker 1: They wiped out a lot of like the big game species,

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Speaker 1: so there was kind of a need anyway, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of rules here. So Number one, poaching is something

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Speaker 1: that it is easy to be a poacher, and that

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Speaker 1: what you can hunt and win is heavily regulated. But

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Speaker 1: but the other thing that's going on here is that

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Speaker 1: even though poaching has punished severely and Hitler himself hates

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Speaker 1: the idea of hunting for meat, hunters have a deep

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Speaker 1: like almost religious, spiritual sort of place in German folklore. Right,

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Speaker 1: the concept of a hunter is something that is is venerated.

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Speaker 1: Think about like at least a couple of times in

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Speaker 1: those fucking handling Grettelass stories where like the guy who

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Speaker 1: comes and saves the days, some like hunter who's just

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Speaker 1: like through the woods, right, Like it's a thing, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: And it's a thing in part because like Germans have

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Speaker 1: a lot of German history is like rap and German

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Speaker 1: like pride is wrapped up and you know they're they're

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Speaker 1: early history when they were fighting the Romans, and like

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Speaker 1: they're these kind of woods people who are live in

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Speaker 1: the dark forest their national folk hero myths, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are like exactly. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of Nazi propaganda is focused on people need to return

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Speaker 1: to nature, need to get back to the woods, they

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Speaker 1: need to hike into camp, and of course they need

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Speaker 1: to hunt. Right. That is, as much as Hitler doesn't

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Speaker 1: like it, a lot of Nazis and a lot of

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Speaker 1: Nazi propaganda still does venerate hunters. We're not liking it.

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Speaker 1: And then it's like, don't kill for meat. If you're

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Speaker 1: gonna kill, kill. This job has been making such moral

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Speaker 1: compromises unbelievable. Stagg right near where I guess Jews. It

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Speaker 1: was horrible, can't you believe it? Put his head up

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Speaker 1: once all. So we we see shades of this in

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Speaker 1: modern right wing propaganda, right like every if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be like a right wing ship head trumpy political candidate,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna pose with a gun shooting something. Right. Some

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Speaker 1: of those guys are actual hunters. Neo Nazi. Fucking Paul

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Speaker 1: Neilon is a hunter and a scary asshole um. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are just like Dr Oz where

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, put me with a shotgun next to

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Speaker 1: some ducks, like people need to see that I'm a

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Speaker 1: real man, um. And it's a bit like that with

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Speaker 1: the Nazis. You definitely have some degree to which this

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Speaker 1: is like showy. But some of the Nazi high command

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Speaker 1: are big hunting nerds. I think it's Gearing. Gearing is

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Speaker 1: huge into hunting, and I believe Himler is as well.

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Speaker 1: Was either Himler or Gerbel's I actually forgot the double check,

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Speaker 1: but one of the two of the other big guys

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Speaker 1: was was also a big hunting nerd, and they have

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Speaker 1: like very nice hunting lodges. Gearing builds this palace for

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Speaker 1: himself named after his dead wife, Karen Hall. That's just

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Speaker 1: for him to go shoot things while the war is

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Speaker 1: going badly. Um, sell me a dog. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of like there. There is Nazis are kind of

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Speaker 1: as much as Hitler doesn't like attributing some sort of

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Speaker 1: magical skill to the idea of being a hunter and poachers,

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Speaker 1: even though it's illegal, poachers are seen as generally the

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Speaker 1: very best hunters, right because not only are they tracking

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Speaker 1: and killing animals, but they're doing it while avoiding the law. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you have to be pretty good at hunting to

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Speaker 1: be a successful being hunted exactly, so that that there

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Speaker 1: is like a respect. Even as much as the Nazis

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Speaker 1: are big law and order guys, there's a respect for

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a poacher. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: both this, like, these guys are criminals and thus we

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Speaker 1: don't want to associate too closely with them, and also

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Speaker 1: these guys have some sort of primal skill that we've venerate, right. Um,

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Speaker 1: So when the Nazis decide that they're going to form

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Speaker 1: a military unit of cotton sentenced poachers, they think they're

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Speaker 1: making like this is obviously is a is a considered

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Speaker 1: military decision. It does make sense, right, if you were

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Speaker 1: planning a counter insurgent campaign, this might be a thing

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Speaker 1: you would do because it does make sense. But they're

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Speaker 1: also doing something a little bit more esoteric. The mystical

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Speaker 1: qualities attributed to hunters by German mythology include an understanding

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Speaker 1: of the wild as something powerful, spiritual, and valuable, but

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Speaker 1: by necessity controlled. And there's there's this idea that some

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Speaker 1: men are wild men, and poachers are among them. Dura

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Speaker 1: Wanger is a wild man. And you can't let these

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Speaker 1: people run freely in your society because like they'll suck

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Speaker 1: it up there too. They bring too much chaos. But

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Speaker 1: they also they're manly, they're powerful, and they're necessary in

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Speaker 1: some places. So there's a there's a place for wildness,

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Speaker 1: there's a place where it's necessary. And as the Nazis

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Speaker 1: gear up to ethnically cleansed Poland and the East, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that is like makes immediate sense to

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Speaker 1: these guys. It's like, well, this is where, this is

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Speaker 1: a place where wildness is needed, right, this is exactly

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Speaker 1: we need some fucking lunatics out here. Um, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote again from Christian Ingrau quote the image

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Speaker 1: of the hunter, like that of his different quarry, corresponds,

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Speaker 1: according to bertrand Hell, to your European imagination of black blood,

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Speaker 1: which defines the exact distance from the wild to these societies,

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Speaker 1: and by a discourse interpreting hunter's behavior, inserts them in

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Speaker 1: social organization and integrates therein the savagery and violence of

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Speaker 1: that image. Now black blood meaning like these people have

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Speaker 1: animal blood in exactly, Yeah, there's something inherently wild about

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Speaker 1: them that we have to harness. Right, And if you

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Speaker 1: want to read Christians book, which I do recommend, he

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Speaker 1: goes into a lot of detail about what this means

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Speaker 1: kind of the esoteric history. I don't understand all of this.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you that right now. I am not

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Speaker 1: an expert on European folklore, and this is an academic text.

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Speaker 1: Christian is a little bit wonkier than I entirely get.

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Speaker 1: But what I do stand understand is that he's saying

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Speaker 1: the Nazis venerate wildness. Thus, is there a term you

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Speaker 1: will hear a lot in speeches that, like Hitler and

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Speaker 1: Himmler and Gering make is hardness. Right, We want to

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Speaker 1: make young men hard so that they can do the

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Speaker 1: things that are you need to be done in the East,

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Speaker 1: and it is it is very funny. We can make

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Speaker 1: all the dip chokes we want. Um, this is you

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Speaker 1: can see this as part of the evidence for the

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Speaker 1: intentionalist sort of thing. Actually, it kind of does fit either,

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Speaker 1: because what you're seeing here is that when you're when

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Speaker 1: you're specifically saying we need to make the new generation

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Speaker 1: of men tough and not care about hurting people and

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Speaker 1: able to kind of go wild because we're about to

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Speaker 1: take over a space that we need them to go

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Speaker 1: wild in in order to detain it. Right, Um, that

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Speaker 1: is preparation for a genocide. Now not in the sense

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Speaker 1: that I think is easy to recognize in court papers,

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Speaker 1: but like that's part of it, right, the the deliberate

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Speaker 1: inculcation of these virtues of hardness and wildness and young

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Speaker 1: men and the Reich is part of why the genocide happens.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's a it's as necessary as stockpiling the munitions,

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Speaker 1: right because most people can't just go shoot thirty thod

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Speaker 1: folks in a day, right, Yeah, like even most assholts

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Speaker 1: can't do. Take your biggest American dips it and he's

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Speaker 1: not getting those numbers. No. Um, so the reason darl

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Speaker 1: Wanger and these poachers are being formed into an anti

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Speaker 1: partisan unit. In addition to the stuff that just makes

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Speaker 1: sense militarily, there's an understanding by the Nazi brass that

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Speaker 1: these guys are going to be good at harnessing the

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Speaker 1: savagery of the wild to get civilian populations, and that

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of that wildness will rub off

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Speaker 1: on the other soldiers, and that's kind of what they think,

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Speaker 1: they know they're going to need. It's so it's the

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Speaker 1: insane thing about it, too, is that is number one,

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Speaker 1: they don't have black blood or whatever. The fuck. These

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Speaker 1: guys are literally just sociopaths. These guys they're finding the

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Speaker 1: most monstrous fucking like I mean, this would be equivalent

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Speaker 1: to like guys drinking four local and people going those

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Speaker 1: guys are wild, man, those guys really animal blood. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean just yeah, just the biggest assholes in the world.

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Speaker 1: And they're just attributing some sort of like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: fucking spiritual animalistic sucking. None of what I'm saying or

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Speaker 1: what Christian to saying, is that like that this is

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Speaker 1: a lot a completely logical thing. It's just of course

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Speaker 1: there's folklore roots because the German the Nazis are big

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Speaker 1: into that sort of stuff that go deeper than just

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Speaker 1: like we need some poachers, right, There is a lot

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Speaker 1: going on here and it is it is meaningful to

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Speaker 1: understand that. Again, in Grau's book goes into more detail.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to claim to entirely understand the arguments

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Speaker 1: that he's making there beyond what I have related to you,

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Speaker 1: because it is more complex than that. But you can

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Speaker 1: read that on your own if you're real into fucking

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Speaker 1: European folklore and hunting. Um. So this takes us back

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Speaker 1: to the discourse though that opened the episode about intentionalists

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Speaker 1: versus functionalists. Durrowanger and his men are about to kill

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children, in

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Speaker 1: the most brutal way is conceivable. Most of these specific

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Speaker 1: killings are not ordered by Hitler or by anyone else

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Speaker 1: in high command directly. Rather, durl Wanger's unit is formed

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Speaker 1: with the understanding that he and his men will interpret

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Speaker 1: their job, which is anti partisan activity, to include just

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Speaker 1: killing everybody in certain areas, right, and not only that,

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Speaker 1: but that they will develop techniques to do that that

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Speaker 1: will be replicable by the rest of the German military.

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Speaker 1: So obviously there are specific direct orders behind a number

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Speaker 1: of their massacres, but usually said orders are less specific

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Speaker 1: than you'd imagine. And this is not just a thing

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Speaker 1: the Germans did when they were committing war crimes. This

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Speaker 1: is part of their battle theory. There's a thing they

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Speaker 1: have developed in at the end of World War One

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Speaker 1: called Alph Truck's tactic, which venerates individual initiative and leaves

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Speaker 1: solutions to problems open to field commanders. Right, German soldiers

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Speaker 1: up through World War Two are much less hampered by

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Speaker 1: like they're much less the command exactly. It's more lest

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Speaker 1: like no, no, you're in charge of this unit of guys.

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Speaker 1: We need you here by this stage. However you do,

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Speaker 1: that's up to you. I'm not going to micro manage you.

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Speaker 1: And that's part of how like you get stories about

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Speaker 1: like Rammel being like a hundred miles ahead of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the army and whatnot, because there this is

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Speaker 1: like a thing that the German military specifically tries to

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Speaker 1: inculcate and its soldiers. And so even though there's not

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Speaker 1: like a direct hitler doesn't send out a memo saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: have Oscar Darrow Wanger ethnically cleans large parts of Poland

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Speaker 1: and Belarus. He is directly orchestrating those massacres by he

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Speaker 1: and Himler and stuff, by putting this unit together and

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Speaker 1: putting it in the places that it's being put right

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Speaker 1: and being like, you know, hey, just if you feel entrepreneurial,

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Speaker 1: go for it. It's pretty much. It's weird that the

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Speaker 1: Third Reich was kind of like militarily run like a startup,

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Speaker 1: which is like, pretty well, yeah, you know, yeah, everybody,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of hats. There's a real startup. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of snacks and also guns in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: to kill. We have black massashes at every Thursday, all

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Speaker 1: the headphones you could ever want. Yeah, it is. It

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Speaker 1: is a bit like that. So Nazi Germany invades September

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Speaker 1: nineteen nine Poland. Um, this works pretty well for them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They fairly rapidly achieve conquest of Poland alongside the Red Army,

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Speaker 1: who are on board for the conquest of Poland. At

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Speaker 1: this everybody wants some Poland right to a few centuries

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Speaker 1: now where people are just like, hey, let's get Poland.

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Speaker 1: Every time a war happens. Yeah, I mean outside of

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Speaker 1: the Nazi stuff. Man, if you come to me and

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Speaker 1: you're like, hey, Robert, I think we gotta I think

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Speaker 1: I got an idea we could take some Poland, I'll

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Speaker 1: be like, I'll hear you out, you know, I'll hear

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Speaker 1: everyone wants a piece of little bit of Polis. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Not trying to go wild on it. Um. The Nazis

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Speaker 1: kind of go wild on it a little bit, so

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Speaker 1: they militarily this goes pretty well for them, but they

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Speaker 1: start to deal very quickly with the problem that their

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Speaker 1: forces are conquering more people and coming into possession of

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Speaker 1: more Jews than they had entirely been ready to handle.

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Speaker 1: So they've got partisans. There are partisans fighting, although it's

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Speaker 1: not at its high pitch yet, right because everyone in

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Speaker 1: Poland is still sort of dealing with the shock of

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Speaker 1: being invaded. Yeah, very it's it's it's come, it's come

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Speaker 1: along quickly. So the need to fight partisans at this

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Speaker 1: period is less important than they need to reduce the

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Speaker 1: number of human beings living in like the areas the

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Speaker 1: Germans are trying to take over and turn into Greater Germany.

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Speaker 1: So Darrel Langer gets sent with his men to Oriannenburg

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Speaker 1: in May of nineteen forty just a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: like not more than a couple of months, but not

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Speaker 1: all of that long after the invasion, and his job

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Speaker 1: is to train the first few dozen poachers in his

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Speaker 1: special unit. His men are kept in an isolated barracks,

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Speaker 1: less their wildness and criminal nature infect the other soldiers.

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Speaker 1: The specific branch of the German military they were attached

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Speaker 1: to would later become the Waffen s S, which is

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Speaker 1: the military arm of Heinrich Hmler's fun club for racists.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from the s S Darrel

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Speaker 1: Wanger Brigade by Ingrau quote. The two months of training

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Speaker 1: they were given must have been limited to the rudiments

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Speaker 1: of military discipline and a summary physical training, something close

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Speaker 1: to the Prussian drill, but hardly going for they're considering

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Speaker 1: how soon they were sent into action. This training was

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Speaker 1: selective enough that in the end only fifty five of

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Speaker 1: the eighty poachers were accepted in the commando. The others

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Speaker 1: were returned progressively to their detention centers without penalty. It

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Speaker 1: was purely a question of physical inceptibility. The order requesting

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Speaker 1: their reintegration in prison, specified that no disciplinary measures were involved.

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Speaker 1: And that's interesting to me that like you get this, like, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't want them to feel bad, right, we don't like,

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Speaker 1: we don't like be dicks to them. If they can't look,

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Speaker 1: you just couldn't cut it, you know, the feeling. Don't

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Speaker 1: hurt their feelings as they are carrying out one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest blood bats in history. Well, we wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: to be like unfair to these guys. Look, they're serving

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Speaker 1: their time. You know, they volunteered. It's okay, just them

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Speaker 1: not making the cut into the like varsity killing Jews team.

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Speaker 1: Hitler sits down next to one of these guys. Look, buddy,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing against It's all right exactly exactly got cut

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Speaker 1: from his high school jew killing team too, and Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 1: oh boy. So in September of nineteen forty, the men

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Speaker 1: of S. S. Durawanger, which is like what the unit

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Speaker 1: gets called, right, this is just kind of the naming

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Speaker 1: scheme at the Germans used are sent to an area

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Speaker 1: in Poland called Lublin. This town held an important place

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Speaker 1: in Nazi race theory. One of their propagandists had in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties described it as quote a bottomless well

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Speaker 1: from which Jews flow to all corners of the globe,

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Speaker 1: the source of the rebirth of world jewry. So certain

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Speaker 1: Nazis are like, this is where the Jews come from. There, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the well where the Jews are sprouted and

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Speaker 1: then just get shot into different countries all over the world.

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Speaker 1: Now look, it's called Lubland, Lublin, Lublin. Now look, I

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Speaker 1: know everything the Jews mountain, oh man. Given everything that's

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Speaker 1: going on in Palestine these days, the question of like

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Speaker 1: what is a Jewish homeland made is a thorny one.

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Speaker 1: But I think everyone can agree it's not Ublin. It's definitely,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely not Lublin. Yeah, we don't. We're not always

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Speaker 1: just like, hey, did you take your your yearly birthright

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Speaker 1: trips back to Lublin next year in Lublin. So the

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Speaker 1: surrounding terrain is swampy uh in the area, and so

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Speaker 1: it was considered to be Lublin's got a large Jewish population,

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Speaker 1: But it's also considered a great idea. They're going to

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Speaker 1: take all of the Jewish people from the surrounding area

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Speaker 1: and they're going to force them into the swamps around Poland,

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Speaker 1: where they're going to create concentration camps um. And they

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Speaker 1: think this is a great idea because since it's a swamp,

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Speaker 1: swamps are bad for you. As a general rule, people

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Speaker 1: aren't supposed to live in swamps, and the Nazis are

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Speaker 1: specifically saying that, like, if we make them all live

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Speaker 1: in this swamp and like shitty camps, it will quote

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Speaker 1: cause their considerable decimation. This is a free way to

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Speaker 1: have the environment kill a lot of them, and we

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Speaker 1: don't know they're trying to biological warfare in a sense. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we have very little specific detail on what the

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Speaker 1: men of the Dura Wanger unit did in these first

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Speaker 1: eighteen months, but we do know the broad strokes, which

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Speaker 1: is that they helped to set up and guard the

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Speaker 1: Belzac and mag the Neck death camps. This was accomplished

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Speaker 1: in stages, which included destruction of synagogues and Talmudic academies

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Speaker 1: in Lublin, as the people there were rounded up and

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Speaker 1: forced behind barbed wire. One German soldier later described, quote,

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Speaker 1: we threw the huge Talmudic library out of the building

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Speaker 1: and carried the books to the marketplace, where we set

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Speaker 1: fire to them. The fire lasted twenty hours. The Lublin

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00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: Jews assembled around and wept bitterly, almost silencing us with

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Speaker 1: their cries. We summon the military band, and with joyful shouts,

379
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 1: the soldiers drowned out the sounds of Jewish cries. Jesus

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Speaker 1: fucking pretty bad, pretty fucking bad. This is uh sorry,

381
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Speaker 1: I just needed something. Yeah, a little bit of airhorn

382
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Speaker 1: there to help out airhorns. I mean, I hate to

383
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Speaker 1: say it, Matt, but that is kind of what the

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Speaker 1: Nazi we just read from dead Yeah, yeah, exactly like

385
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Speaker 1: I drowned out to cries with my cool horn. This

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Speaker 1: is bleak, Yes, this is very Why are they crying

387
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Speaker 1: so much? Bring out the air horn? Boot? All right? Okay,

388
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Speaker 1: they know if they know about speaking of bomba clat.

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Speaker 1: You know who's fucking just hella into reggae. All of

390
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Speaker 1: the sponsors of this podcast, Sylvie and I. Look, when

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Speaker 1: or or the CIA or whoever comes out and says

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Speaker 1: they want to do an ad in our show, we

393
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Speaker 1: have one question, and it's are you fucking down? Are

394
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Speaker 1: you a rude boy? You goddamn right. We're back so

395
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Speaker 1: in between helping to carry out actions, like the one

396
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Speaker 1: we just read from the Horrible Genocide story and march

397
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Speaker 1: intends of thousands of people to the site of their

398
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Speaker 1: eventual extermination. The Durrowanger unit got the chance to show

399
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Speaker 1: off their special skills encounter sniper missions and in rounding

400
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Speaker 1: up escaped Polish officers spotted in the area. After the war.

401
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Speaker 1: The s s officer Burger, who's the guy who gets

402
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: Durrowinger this job, claimed they spent most of their time

403
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Speaker 1: in combat with early stages of the Polish resistance. This

404
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: is probably a lie, As with that stuff I said

405
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Speaker 1: about counter sniper missions. Ingrou doesn't think they're doing any fighting.

406
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Speaker 1: Ingrow thinks they are purely Number one, rounding up Jewish

407
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Speaker 1: civilians and like burn burning their ship, beating them with

408
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Speaker 1: rifle buds, forcing them into camps, and number two stealing

409
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Speaker 1: ship right like, that's actually what they're doing at this stage.

410
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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from his book now. Post war

411
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Speaker 1: testimony doesn't mention antipartisan activity. Another very credible indicator of

412
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Speaker 1: the total absence of danger is the fact that the

413
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: units suffered no losses. The men almost never mentioned tracking

414
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Speaker 1: partisans in the fullest of the demarcation zone. All, however,

415
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Speaker 1: say that the unit spent the majority of its time

416
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Speaker 1: on the most ordinary surveillance work. Policing the civilian populations

417
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Speaker 1: and fighting the black market seem to have been the

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Speaker 1: group's main activities. Unit reports speak regularly if the spoils

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Speaker 1: seized by the men supporting the local police force, money,

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Speaker 1: consumer goods, valuables, and a lot of this. It's we

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Speaker 1: don't exactly know, but there's a lot of reports of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we busted this Jewish community center and they had all

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Speaker 1: of this coffee and meat and stuff, and maybe they

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Speaker 1: just found where different members of the Jewish community were

425
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: like storing their nice stuff, or maybe they were robbing

426
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: everyone blind and claiming it was the Jews. They could

427
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 1: take some of that. And this is the thing, by

428
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: the way, happens across the s S. Right. There are

429
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: actually major discipline problems at the death camps of like

430
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: stuff being stolen from Jews by individual members of the

431
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: s S. Because that stuff is being stolen for the Reich,

432
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: and there's like disciplining over it. People get like transferred

433
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: to the East to go die for it. It's like

434
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 1: a whole thing. These guys are like pioneers in the

435
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: SS stealing everything that isn't nailed down, right, Um, I

436
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: mean the perk of this kind of fucked up job

437
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: where you're just like, oh, we get to we get

438
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: to go in there first and kill quote partisans, which

439
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: are just civilians who have no idea how the hell

440
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: you've got in their community center. Yeah, and then fucking

441
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: stealing everything inside. Yeah, and we gotta you know, we

442
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: give a bunch of it to the government. But like,

443
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: some of that's gonna find Some of those cigarettes are

444
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: winding up in my pockets, some of that meats winding

445
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: up on my table, you know. That's that's what they do. Um.

446
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: And obviously everything the Nazis are doing is gangster activity.

447
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: What I said earlier in the first episode, these are

448
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: webs of different gangsters, right. So like the fact that

449
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: these guys are stealing the s S doesn't hate it

450
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: because they're stealing it. Hated because no, that's supposed to

451
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: go somewhere else, Right, That's that's going up the chain.

452
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, I don't consider it stealing from the you know, civilians,

453
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: and consider it stealing from them. You know, they're like, hey, hey,

454
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: all that stolen ship is ours mother, fucking yeah. Herman

455
00:24:52,600 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: Garring needs that coffee exactly, Martin market meat, Martin Borman

456
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: needs to purshuto. You gotta sit now. You don't get

457
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: to keep that poachers go hunt something um so the

458
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: entire yeah again. The thievery of the darrel Wanger Brigade

459
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: eventually grows to be too much for the occupation authorities.

460
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from a right up by Nicola

461
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: Bodanovic in War History Online here. Various reports stated that

462
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: during this period, rape, murder, extortion, beatings, and other crime

463
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: methods were employed by the members of the Special durl

464
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: Wanger Unit. The police chief of the Lublin Ghetto, Friedrich

465
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: Wilhelm Krueger, was so appalled by the conduct of throat

466
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: cutting Madman that he appealed several times for them to

467
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: be stopped. Instead, he was transferred to Belarus, So were

468
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: the durrell Wangers after their work in Poland was done again,

469
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: like the guy the Nazis make head cop in the ghetto,

470
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 1: which is not a good man, right, you don't put

471
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: a nice guy in that Job's flatten and say a

472
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: cab It's all, but also some are even more kiss

473
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: Maybe the yeah the most cab of all of the calves.

474
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: And this guy's like, these guys are rapists. These guys

475
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: are really bad. I know, I am preparing to exturminate

476
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: all of these people, but like, we gotta we gotta

477
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: get these these cowboys out of Poland's yeah, these guys

478
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: are just kind of going overboard. Yeah. Um. So it

479
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: was in Poland that the Darrowenger Brigade first proved itself

480
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: in actual anti partisan or sorry, it's in Belarus. Um

481
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: so they get they get sent to Belarus, and it's

482
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: there that the Darrowanger Brigade UM proves itself and its

483
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: first actual anti partisan combat. They do well, they're good

484
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: at this, Like it was actually militarily a decent idea

485
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: to like throw these guys together. And Oscar is immediately like, well,

486
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: this is a small commando unit. You've see what we

487
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: can do. Give me another couple of hundred men and

488
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: give us some guns and let's get some armored vehicles.

489
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: And they get them. And he does this a couple

490
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: of times. The Nazis keep reinforcing this unit with more

491
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: and more guys. Eventually it hits brigade strength. During this period,

492
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: um and which is like eight or nine hundred men

493
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: and their first engagements are pretty standard. But then during

494
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: one of these actions, a squad of their soldiers is

495
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: ambushed by partisans in the road and several are killed.

496
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: In reprisal, they burned down a partisan camp in the village,

497
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: and it's mostly uninhabited at this point because everybody's running away.

498
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: But they burn a village to the ground, and this

499
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: is going to be the first of a lot of

500
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: villages that they were on the ground. From July to

501
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: August of nineteen forty two, they carry out a massive

502
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: anti partisan operation and you have to read between the

503
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: lines here to find the war crime, but it's pretty

504
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: clear when you go through the numbers. By the operations end,

505
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty one partisans had been killed, but only

506
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty two weapons had been seized, only

507
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: twenty seven German soldiers have been killed. One might interpret

508
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: from this that they're just rounding up villages and killing everybody.

509
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're doing the thing that the l a

510
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: p d does, right, just like keep a gun in

511
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: the boot of the car to toss it a guy.

512
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: You know. This would prove to be a general trend

513
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: for the unit and I'm gonna quote from Ingrou's book again.

514
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: During these operations, according to Christian Garlas calculations, six to

515
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: ten men were killed for every weapon recovered and confiscated.

516
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: He concludes that only fifteen percent of those killed were

517
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: real members of armed resistance movements against the Germans. The victims,

518
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: thus were primarily peasants and fugitives, notably Jews escaped from

519
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: the ghettos. More significant still is the amount of food

520
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: among the spoils collected by the anti partisan units. Potatoes, grain,

521
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: and cattle appear regularly in the reports of the operations,

522
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: transforming them, especially after the winter of nineteen to forty three,

523
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: into murderous predatory raids against the local peasantry. The balance

524
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: sheet of operations swamp fever, which is what they call this,

525
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: sums up the situation perfectly. The Germans, by their own admission,

526
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: had killed only four hundred and eighty nine bandits in

527
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: over a month of operation. They had, however, eliminated eight thousand,

528
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty Jews from the Borano Witsitch ghetto,

529
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: as well as twelve hundred and seventy four suspects and

530
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: evacuated and seventeen other individuals by evacuated, we must understand

531
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: deported for labor within the Reich. These were persons fit

532
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: for labor found in the villages, while the executed suspects

533
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: were either escapees killed in the forest or those unfit

534
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: for labor from the same villages, women, children, and the aged.

535
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: So they are going through large swaths of territory, they

536
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: are rounding everybody up, they're sending the men to Germany

537
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: to labor, and they're killing the women, children and old people.

538
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: That's the bulk of the anti part as an operation

539
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: they're doing here, and they are part of and they're

540
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: not the first part of the early stages of the

541
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: Final Solution, right, which is camouflaged as anti part As

542
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: an activity, the s s tactic here that Durrowinger does

543
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: pioneer because they're also dealing with because again the very

544
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: like the first stages of what the Einsetz group and

545
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: are doing is just massacring communities of people who had

546
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: lived in cities. Um. There is an actual partisan movement

547
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: here right. There are Red Army partizans and stuff fighting

548
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: against the Nazis. And the tactic durrow Wanger develops in

549
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: these areas is to create what they call death zones.

550
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: These are not just zones that they're emptying of Jews,

551
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: but of all of their population. Now SS durrowingger are

552
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: not the only union involved in this, not by a

553
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: long shot, but they are the guys figuring out how

554
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: to depopulate large rural areas for the German military. Right,

555
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: that is a question that is a like, how are

556
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: we going to do this? What is the best way

557
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: to do this that is the most efficient exactly the

558
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: less uh least amount of emotional damage to our our people.

559
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: And that is a different We're not talking about like

560
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: morally different, but that is a different thing tactically from

561
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: like we've taken this city and now we're going to

562
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: round up the Jews and shoot them and worry or whatever. Right, Like,

563
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: it's a different thing. It requires different tactics. UM General

564
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: von Gottberg, who's the guy who authors the original death

565
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: zone orders and is in direct command of durrow Wanger

566
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: and his men, praises Durrowanger for his visionary leadership and

567
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: proposes that he be than a medal after his men

568
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: kill fifteen thousand people in fifteen months of operations, pausing

569
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: only ninety two of their own. Now, the Nazis are

570
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: dealing with a serious insurgency in Belarus at this point,

571
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: and as you'd expect, Dr Wanger is kind of seen

572
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: as their best bet in solving it. One internal report

573
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: on his activities read quote traffic with Vilnius itself is

574
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: more and more obstructed by acts of terrorism, minds, et cetera.

575
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: To this may be added the erroneous psychological treatment of

576
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: the population by units on police operations. Here the name

577
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: Durrol Wanger plays a particularly significant role for this man

578
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: in the war of annihilation. He wages piteously against an

579
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: unarmed population, deliberately refuses to consider political necessities. His methods,

580
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: worthy of the Thirty Years War, make a lie of

581
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: the civil administration's assurances of their wish to work together

582
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: with the Belarusian people. When women and children are shot

583
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: in mass or burned alive, there is no longer a

584
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: semblance of human of humane conduct of war. The number

585
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: of villages burned during sweep operations ex needs that of

586
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: those burned by the Bolsheviks. God damn, Yeah, that is

587
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: that is a Nazi being, Like these guys are out

588
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: of control again, this is this is a guy who

589
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: is like into this already. He's like no, Like, hey,

590
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: I believe in this subjugation of loves this usually, but

591
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: some people are doing a little too much. It is

592
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: fucking wild. Yeah it is. And again like I'm not

593
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: going into too much detailor we will later and some

594
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: of these things, but like they're not just massacring people,

595
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: Like no, don't just shoot the women who are not

596
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: fit for labor, they rape them, right, Like, that's that's

597
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: who these guys are. That's what this guy was before

598
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: the war start, right, Like, this is not this is

599
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: torture as well as execution. They are not doing the

600
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: most efficient thing, which generally the EINSTS GROUPA at least

601
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: earlier on, are just trying to efficiently massacre people with guns. Right,

602
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: there's a there's a degree of creative sadism to the

603
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: way that Darrowinger behaves. That is, it's not certainly not unique.

604
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: You can find a lot of other Nazi units that

605
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: do it, but he is. He is noteworthy for his

606
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: dedication to it. I think he's the Steve Jobs. Yeah,

607
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: Oscar Darrowinger gets out on the stage. Actually that's that's

608
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: literally the parts. So here's Oscar Drwinger in a turtleneck.

609
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: Mine Fields a problem since the beginning of modern warfare.

610
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: You have a piece of terrain that your enemy doesn't

611
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: allow your soldiers to cross because they filled it with

612
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: hidden bombs. Here at Nazi Co, we figured out a

613
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: solution to mine fields, which is to gather up all

614
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: of the women and children in the area and just

615
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: walk them through it until there's no mines. And then

616
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: and here's here's what's insanely great. Right, here's the thing

617
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: that's really cool. We shoot them all the survivors. He's

618
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: a visionary. He as as far as I could tell,

619
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: like the guy who invents this as a cohesive tactic. Right,

620
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's places where you can find people doing this.

621
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: Durrell Wanger is the guy who, like, right, basically rights

622
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: up a guide to the German military of like, here's

623
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: how you do this. You get all of the you

624
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: round these the men up from these nearby villages, and

625
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: you make them walk. You keep them shoulder with a

626
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: part because that's the right length, and you have them

627
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: this is the way in which you use civilians to

628
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: clear land mines um and then you shoot them all

629
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: to death. And he's squid gaming. He's doing a proto

630
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: squid game. Yeah, and it works really well. And in fact,

631
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: s S and Wehrmacht units across the Eastern Front are

632
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: advised to adopt durroll Wingers tactics when they encounter minefields

633
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: because he's like it works pretty well. Um yeah, he's

634
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: the Steve Jobs of genocide. So durroll Wanger was also

635
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: praised for his ability to save on the expenditure of

636
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: munitions during massacres. One way he did this was instead

637
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: of look, you've got five people right from these two

638
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: or three villages, you could shoot them all and then

639
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: you're out five bullets and those aren't or you just

640
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: forced them all into barns and you light the barns

641
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: on fire. And the exactly he really is like a startup.

642
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: Found he really is a start up guys. We're gonna

643
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: disrupt ethnic cleansing, exactly exactly. It's just killed different you

644
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: know him. The exhumation report of the Soviet Investigating Commission mentions,

645
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: besides the number of villages and the number killed in each,

646
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: that neither cartridges nor projectiles were found, and it concluded

647
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: that the two thousand victims had been burned alive in Barnes,

648
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: a witness to the massacres, Alexander Mironov, saw a man

649
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: laughing through a fourteen year old child into a bonfire Jesus.

650
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: So again, they're not just doing this like coldly because

651
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: it's efficient. They're like, they're having fun with this is

652
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: their king, this is their thing, that's what they live for.

653
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: This is I mean, you know, these fools were in

654
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: prison before for being poachers and now they're sing yeah.

655
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: And they're also, it has to be said, all on

656
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: meth amphetamine, right, Yeah, it's not written about because it's

657
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: not generally like discussed all that much, but like this

658
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: is the period in which an awful lot of the

659
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: German Army is on fucking meth. So they're they're drunk

660
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: and on speed and this is like how they're having fun.

661
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: So I never with meth, you know, I was like,

662
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: I was strictly opiate. So I was like, I don't

663
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: want to funk with meth for the same reason I

664
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: do not want to drive a VW bug yea Nazi

665
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: OPI It's just make you like the least offensive of

666
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: the Nazi hike Herman Garring, you know, and look, if

667
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: you have to pick one Nazi leader if I had. Yeah.

668
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: So by this point, the Dura Wanger Brigade has been

669
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: expanded well beyond poachers. Its ranks now included disgraced s

670
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: S soldiers on penal release, as well as Russian and

671
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: Ukrainian auxiliaries. Right, they don't have that many poachers, you know,

672
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: there's not There's only some any. This eventually gets to

673
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: be like two thousand people. So like if you're in

674
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: the s S and in some cases in the Rmacht

675
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: and you get like in trouble because you commit a

676
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: series of crimes, they just send you here, right. Um.

677
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: They also when they meet fascists who are like Russian

678
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: and Ukrainian, they're like, hey, you guys wanna be in

679
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: the SS kind of and those guys are like, well,

680
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: we really don't have much of a choice. And also

681
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: a lot of us are pieces of ships, so yes,

682
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: and again it is a mix of people who are

683
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: just fascists who live there, and also people who are like,

684
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: oh you've got food and I get a gun, well

685
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: I'll kill whoever whatever. You don't understand how bleak life

686
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: is in Western Russia in nineteen I'll do anything. Yeah,

687
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: it sucks. Now, yeah, I will join your stupid club.

688
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: Watch the movie Come and See in twenties years under.

689
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: By the way, Come and See is literally about this.

690
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: It's about it's set in Belarus. It is it is

691
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: these Nazis, specifically, it's about Dr Langer, and it's about

692
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: from the perspective of the Belarusians, those fucking guys much um.

693
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: And it is a harrowing film. Um. The only I

694
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: refused to watch Nazi films. The only one I've seen

695
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: is um uh, an American tale about the Little Jewish Mouse.

696
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: That's the only one I'll watched. Darryl Langer is the cat.

697
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: I believe there was a Nazi. Definitely, he's multiple cats. Yeah,

698
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: he's he's a couple of them. Um. Now, Come and

699
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: See is a movie that was made during the Soviet

700
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: Union and is is like probably the most like visually

701
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: upsetting film ever made. Um, it's it's it would be

702
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: hard to beat. It's the closest you can get to

703
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: actually living through like some of these experience. It's it

704
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: is fucking gnarly and it's about this. Like if you've

705
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: seen Come and See and are still like haunted by

706
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: some of those images, it's literally about this period and

707
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: these guys is as good as that Georgia Merrow movie

708
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: about motorcycles that you keep talking about. Nothing is as

709
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: good as Night Writers. Um, if the cast of Night

710
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: Writers had been around, they would have put a stop

711
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: to this. You think Ed Harris with a sword in

712
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: a motorcycle is letting the ship go on the movie.

713
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean, in the first scenes of the movie, they

714
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: beat up a Nazi like's just shaking her head, like

715
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: not again, shaking her head because now two weeks in

716
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: a row where he cannot bring it up. This is

717
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. Now, I'm never not talking

718
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: about unfortunately, I know, but but that's not true because

719
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: you go through phases that would go through phases. I

720
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: should talk about that a little bit later. Um, we should.

721
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: We should discuss the child hunting island that we shouldn't

722
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: be talking about anymore. We'll get to that in a minute.

723
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: You know what actually weird about forty minutes, Matt, What

724
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: you ever made a joke that went too far? Never? Never? Okay,

725
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: that's good. Well, here behind the bastards we have some

726
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: running jokes. You know, everybody remembers the Doritos era fondly

727
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: ray theon knife missiles, all that good stuff. Lately, I've

728
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: really been enjoying a series of running jokes about having

729
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: an island where rich people hunt children for sport right

730
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: at good time. With those jokes very funny, I assumed

731
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: absurd enough that nobody would take them seriously. That's one

732
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: of the requirements now incorrect Number one's because we show

733
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: the name. And half of why we bleeped the name

734
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: was because we didn't want to alienate, you know, someone

735
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: who might be a sponsor someday. I think the cats

736
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: are that bag, but half of it was also it

737
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: just was kind of funny. This led to a lot

738
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: of people being like, is Robert serious? Is have a

739
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: child hunting island? Is this real? And it was a

740
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: constant thing um And normally I thought it was kind

741
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: of funny, and generally people would get on the subred

742
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, what's going on, and other people

743
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: would correct them, and I was like, Okay, that's fine. Recently,

744
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: more than one member of the team have gotten messages

745
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: from people who are taking it very seriously, and one

746
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: person was distraught and being like, I feel like this

747
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: is real and you're not like it's not a joke,

748
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: and and you like and the amount of Reddit threads

749
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: is deeply and this is the Reddit threads, but those

750
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: are funny. There were there were some people I think

751
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: who are maybe like having a tough time issue and

752
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: took it, took it really serious. And if you are listening,

753
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: please I am not joking that that was that was

754
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: a gag. That was for yucksing not to have a

755
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: child hunting island. Please do not. You are not joking

756
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: about the fact that you are joking. I get that.

757
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: That's confusing. There is no child hunting island. We will

758
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: not be doing that joke anymore. But you know what

759
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: we will be doing, Matt what throwing two ads? We're back,

760
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: I hope everybody again, very seriously, there's no child hunting island,

761
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: um associated with specifically, Oh, Matt, I wanna, I wanna

762
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: do a yes and to that, but that's what got

763
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: us in this situation, so I have to stop. Um.

764
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: So by this point in the war, right and we're

765
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: talking like nineteen forty three ish, late nineteen forty three

766
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: pretty much, UM, the Dura Winger Brigade has been expanded

767
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: to there's these disgrace soldiers, these these auxiliaries, and they're

768
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: kind of mostly used as a result, they avoid direct

769
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: combat a lot because, among other things, well, there's a

770
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: lot of Russians in this unit. We probably shouldn't have

771
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: them fighting the Red Army. That might not go great.

772
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: We don't know we can trust these guys. Um. Yeah,

773
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: and one of these Russians later reported on his time

774
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: with the Dura Winger unit. Quote. During these actions, the

775
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: peaceful inhabitants of towns, villages, and hamlets were shot, burned, alive,

776
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: hanged houses, schools, hospitals, clubs, churches, and other public buildings

777
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: were burned. If my memory is correct, more than a

778
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: hundred inhabited areas were destroyed together with their inhabitants. Now, Oscar,

779
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: it must be noted because they are fighting in actual,

780
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: actual insurgence during pieces of this is kind of one

781
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons that these guys, these criminals and rapists like,

782
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: are very loyal to him, weirdly loyal, is that he's

783
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: always the first guy into combat. Um, he gets wounded

784
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: multiple times during this he I mean, he already has

785
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: half an arm. Yeah, he does not give a shit

786
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: about right, He trying to hes trying to die like

787
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: he's the only thing Oscar Durrell Wanger cares about less

788
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: than age of consent laws is getting shot, right, It'll

789
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 1: just make me come harder. Oh boy. This earned him

790
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: the adoration of his men um and he also they

791
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: appreciated his openness to their suggestions on how to proceed

792
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: with the war. The pattern of new tactics of cruelty

793
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: originating within the unit and then spreading out to the

794
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: German military in the East continued. In addition to barn burning,

795
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: which gets adopted on a wider basis by the Germans,

796
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: Durrell Winger experimented with letting packs of starving dogs feed

797
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: on the corpses of murdered women and children. Like trade

798
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: up Ramsey Bolton, He's trying to figure out the most

799
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: fucked up ways to like like destroying not just people's lives,

800
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: with their minds too. And some of this is like again,

801
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: there's a bad and illegal, but like, if you have insurgents,

802
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: killing everyone in the area where they are is like

803
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: a tactic for fighting them, right because there's no one

804
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: to fight you. Um, a lot of this, like the

805
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: feasting dogs on corpses, there's no reason for this beyond

806
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: he's number one, he wants to like scare people, and

807
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 1: number two he's a monster. Um And for Oscar experimentation,

808
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: it's especially in like forty three, it goes beyond stuff

809
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: that is helpful to just like stuff a fucked up

810
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: dude does because there's no one to stop him. I'm

811
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: gonna quote now from a Bond University thesis paper by

812
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: Harris Goldworthy. Quote he made so called scientific experiments which

813
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: involved stripping the victims of their clothes. Then they the

814
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: victims were given an injection of Stryck nine. Darro Wanger

815
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: looked on, smoked a cigarette, as did his friends, and

816
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: they saw how these girls were dying. Immediately after that,

817
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: the corpses were cut into small pieces, mixed with horsemeat

818
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: and boiled into soap. Fucking A, there's like no reason

819
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: for this. He's just he's just being a piece of ship.

820
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: Like he's just he's just trying to it's just a

821
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,479
Speaker 1: new It's like you know, I mean, I'm not trying

822
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: to minimize it, but it's like, you know, it's like

823
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: when you know you need to stop with the porn

824
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: hub because you're just like, what's next? Piss porn and

825
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: then you're like, am I really going to be a

826
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: piss porn guy? And he's the kind of guy who

827
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: was like, yes, yeah, he is the kind of guy

828
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: who goes straight to piss porn. Yeah, he starts off

829
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: because a piss pigo. Okay. The primary causes of death

830
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: for Darrel Winger's men during this age of the war

831
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: because again most of well they are again, there are

832
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: some they are getting into some firefights, some of which

833
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: are nearly most of what they're doing is just massacring,

834
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: and as a result, the vast majority of men who

835
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: die in his units um either get shot by their

836
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: own friends because everybody's drunk um, or they die in

837
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: like car accidents because again everybody's drong. Everybody's drunk. That

838
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: is the primary cause of death is they're wasted in

839
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: between massacres and they die somehow. So the larger SS

840
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: keeps an eager eye on their progress and on kind

841
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: of some of the things they're experimenting with, even though

842
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: they they're not. They don't like them, right, because these

843
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: guys are gross. Everybody knows it, Like nobody wants to

844
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: be these guys other than these guys. But I'm gonna

845
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: quote from a write up in Heinrich Himler A Life Here,

846
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: Dara Wanger's leadership of the Saunder Commando was characterized by

847
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: continued alcohol abuse, looting, sadistic atrocities, rape, and murder, and

848
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: his mentor Burger tolerated this behavior, as did Himler, who

849
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: so urgently needed men such as the Saunder Come and

850
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: Darrow Anger in his fight against sub humanity. It was

851
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: important to the Reich's Fearer, however, that the detachments within

852
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: the Saunder Commando did not belong to the s S,

853
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: but merely served it. It was not until nineteen that

854
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: Darrow Anger succeeded in incorporating his unit, which accepted criminals

855
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: of every hue and so was growing unstoppably into the

856
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: s S as the thirty six Grenadier Division. So that

857
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,479
Speaker 1: guy is not with us, Okay, yeah, like he's with us,

858
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: but he's not really, he's like a volunteer. Like we

859
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: let him wear as a uniform and stuff. But that

860
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: all that weird ships, that's not us. That's not some

861
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 1: of that's us. A little bit of it is us,

862
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny bit, but mostly it's that I don't

863
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: know about that these guys are funked up? Should someone

864
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: call hr I mean it is one of the one

865
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: of the stories that people will tell about Himler. That is,

866
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: people take different things out of it. But he is

867
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: a period at which he visits one of the death camps.

868
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: I think it might have been Auschwitz, and he like

869
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: passes out when he's like watching the ship right, And

870
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: some people take it as like, oh, he was, like

871
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: what a weak man, he couldn't handle it. That's not

872
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: how his guys would have interpreted it, because most of

873
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: them are not like even mostly people committing the genocide

874
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: are not like eager to physically do it. They see

875
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: it as like this is a nasty, terrible job and

876
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: we're taking this burden upon And that's how they talk

877
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: about it to themselves. That's what hardness means. It doesn't

878
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: mean like violent sadism. That's not what it's supposed to mean.

879
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: It means you're cold enough that like you understand this

880
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: has to be done, and like that he would pass out.

881
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: That just actually means that he's he's a decent man

882
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: who just has to do this terrible task to protect

883
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: the right. Good guy. What a good guy like I

884
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: hope all of his men cradled the cradled them in

885
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: their arms and just like it's okay, please stop crying.

886
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: And that's part of why, part of why the s

887
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: S and why guys like Himmler, even though they need

888
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: the dr Wanger Brigade, find them so off putting and disgusting,

889
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: is that like they're taking full ownership of the kind

890
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: of things that these guys are making happen, but don't

891
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: want to don't want to have as a part of them,

892
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 1: Right Benrick Himler doesn't want to have like rape, burning

893
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: a village to death on his soul. He wants it done,

894
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: he needs it done, He'll make sure it gets done,

895
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: but he doesn't. That's not a part of his conception

896
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: of who he is, right, Yeah, and these guys, you know,

897
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm more than just death camps. Yea. I am also

898
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: a man who likes to dress like a medieval knight.

899
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: In my last dress like a night. I like to

900
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, go to renfairs. I feel like the problem

901
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: with cancel cultures these days is you are reduced to

902
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 1: the worst thing you've ever done. For example, me killing

903
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: all of the Jews, Yeah I did that, a big deal, Okay.

904
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: I've also read many fine books. Yeah, and so part

905
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: of like why there's part of why these guys get

906
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: reported so much by the SS is less that the

907
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: SS guys who are reporting them are legitimately horrified that

908
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: they're committing war crimes and more like it's not you

909
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: are you are unabashedly gleeful about doing the thing that

910
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: we do, but have to pretend exactly the presense is gone,

911
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: and it's like you're you're making us look bad by yeah,

912
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: you're making us feel bad because we don't want to

913
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: be that guy right when you like and again that

914
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: you can make a case that these are less bad

915
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: people than, for example, guys like the commandant of Auschwitz,

916
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: who was a loving father if I think five kids,

917
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: and you can find pictures of him on his vacations

918
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: and playing with his children by the pool and being

919
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: a wonderful dad while he is running Auschwitz. Rudolf Hess

920
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: I believe was his name. Um, and um, I think

921
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: it's ho s or whatever, like because there's another guy, yeah,

922
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: not that hass, not the other guy. Um. But yeah,

923
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: I think you could argue guys like Darrel Winger who

924
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: are just like, yeah, man, I fucking love raping and

925
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: murdering people. This is awesome, This is who I am.

926
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: Baby is a better person than the guy who like

927
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: pretends to be the loving father while he gasses a

928
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 1: million people. Right, because they know right from wrong. They

929
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: know it's bad, they know they're doing bad. And the

930
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: worst part about these people is they've convinced themselves. Their

931
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: narrative is that they are the victims. That's why they

932
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: have to do this, like how this guy phrases it. Yeah,

933
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: and they take the entire narrative and throw it in

934
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 1: the trash when you start gleefully doing it. And then

935
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: what does that say about all of your beliefs and

936
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: all of your crimes? It says that you are basically

937
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: that on the insete. There's no mask with the dar Winger.

938
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: Bring this mask off now. As the war turns against Germany,

939
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 1: these guys do find themselves thrown into actual combat more

940
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: and more, and the end of ninety three d of

941
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 1: brings an end to the good times because they don't

942
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: do great in stand up fights. That's not really not really,

943
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: there's not really what they're good at. Um. It also

944
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: brings another change in the composition of the unit, as

945
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: German manpower struggles become more severe Christian and grow White

946
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: writes quote. Starting in July nineteen forty three, the Sounder

947
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: and Height received large contentions of delinquents of a different kind.

948
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 1: The idea was not new. In early spring March, Himler

949
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: had ordered that Germans of the Reich and all men

950
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: of the class of nineteen o one and later living

951
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: in an irregular situation within the general government who have

952
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: no military training or assignment and who have avoided the

953
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: draft for years arrested in a general government sweep must

954
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: be gathered and assigned to the penal battalions of the

955
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: dure Wanger Unit. Now what that means is he's saying

956
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,439
Speaker 1: all of the men of eligible age who have not

957
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: been serving in the military because there's some sort of

958
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: criminal are going to be sent directly to the dure

959
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: Wanger Unit. And these guys are all they're all born

960
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: between eighteen nine and eighteen one. Most of them have

961
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: been imprisoned as a social individuals or professional criminals. Um,

962
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: that's about half of these new guys are just professional criminals,

963
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: people who had committed burglary, who had stolen purses, um,

964
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: and then often most often for armed robbery, assault, manslaughter,

965
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,959
Speaker 1: murder like like mostly bad. About half of these guys

966
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: are like violent crime guys, right, But there's also a

967
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: bunch of people who get brought into this unit whose

968
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: crimes are being a social. Now, this doesn't include petty criminals,

969
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: but it also means just like homeless people, right, you're

970
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: living on the street, you know you're a social. Unemployed

971
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: people who can't get a job, people who are mentally disabled, right,

972
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: who have some sort of like mental thing that makes

973
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: them unable to like work job, feeble minded right, Um,

974
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: there are some people who the Germans considered to be

975
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: psychopathic but don't have an extensive criminal record. All these

976
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: people get put in there. Now, Beginning in late nineteen

977
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: forty four, with shortages even more severe of manpower, Himler,

978
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: Gottla Burger, and durl Wanger to side to expand the

979
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: number of eligible men for the unit to include not

980
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: just those guys we talked about, but also political prisoners

981
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: who have been held in Nazi concentration camps. And now

982
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: the ranks of this SS units start to swell with

983
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: former anti fascists, mostly communists, who had been locked away

984
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: who had been in concentration camps for years get put

985
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: into the Dura Wanger Unit. Historian Peter Klausch refers to

986
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: the unit during this period as consisting of quote, anti

987
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: fascists in s S uniform. Yeah, it's this is we

988
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: are getting into one of the bleaker parts of the story.

989
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: Now Klausch is overstating the matter. But these guys are

990
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: never the majority of the unit, right. The majority of

991
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 1: the unit is like violent criminals and stuff um and

992
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: members of other military units who had gotten in trouble,

993
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: generally for rape or something. But a lot of the

994
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: Dura Wanger Unit are like former communists, mens who men

995
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: who had fought Nazis in the streets and been arrested

996
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: for it. Right, And a lot of these guys take

997
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: part in the slaughter of civilians with the Arrowanger Unit.

998
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 1: This is the only and very specific instance in which

999
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: the right wingers are like Antifa is the real fascist

1000
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: is like these this one group of guys. Now, yeah, yeah,

1001
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: they're the exception that the rule. It is more complicated

1002
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: than that, because a lot of these guys they're looking

1003
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: at like, well, we don't know what this unit is doing, right,

1004
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: Because if you're in a concentrate, you don't know what

1005
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: they're doing in. You just know, Oh, I can get

1006
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: out and they're gonna give me a gun. I can

1007
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: find a way to get away. I can desert and

1008
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: join the variety. Right, And about a hundred of these

1009
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: guys do, right. They get over there and as soon

1010
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: as they can, they desert and they fight for the

1011
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: Russian army. Right. Um, And like those guys, fine, that's

1012
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: you do whatever you gotta do to get out of concentration.

1013
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna judge you. You You don't know what these

1014
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: guys are doing. Um, but a significant number of these

1015
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: dudes don't leave even when like the war turns against

1016
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: them and they're surrounded and being annihilated. They fight to

1017
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: death with to the death with their comrades. That's not

1018
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: an insignificant number of these anti fascists or ori anti fascists.

1019
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 1: It's like some Stockholm syndrome ship right there. And this

1020
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: is all It's hard to say exactly. Some of it's

1021
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: probably they just you know, these folks have become their comrades.

1022
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: Some of it maybe they just there wasn't a chance

1023
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: to get away. It's it's a nasty war, right people.

1024
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: Show options are limited and we're already in this is

1025
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: pretty complex moral territory. But it gets gnarlier as you're

1026
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: surely aware, Matt. Homosexuality is illegal in the Third Reich. However,

1027
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: many gay men, particularly soldiers, caught engaging in homosexual sex,

1028
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: aren't sent to concentration camps. Instead, these are some of

1029
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: the guys who get put in penal battalions. Right, So

1030
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: a decent number the whole time this brigade is active,

1031
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: A decent number the guys going in a lot. It's

1032
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 1: a mix of like guys who have just committed rape

1033
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: and guys who are like having homosexual sex and get caught. Now,

1034
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: Hans Peter Clouch says that the hope here was to

1035
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: push these men back to the right path via explosion

1036
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: about you're straighten them out by making them fight with

1037
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: these these real hard customers. Right. Um, they also didn't

1038
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: want too They didn't want Germans who were being drafted

1039
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: to think that if they just like fucked a dude,

1040
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: they'd get out of military service. Right. That was the

1041
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: other thing, um, star fucking dudes and it'll just be

1042
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: a verse. I want to quote next from a Council

1043
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: of Europe paper titled Queer in Europe. During the Second

1044
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: World War quote, the Rmacht preferred to retend to retrain

1045
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: homosexuals rather than exclude them. Franz Siedler adds that even

1046
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: emasculated men were still fit for military service as long

1047
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: as they were worthy of serving. It was not desirable

1048
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: to dispense emasculated men from their military obligations. From nineteen

1049
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: forty four, when Germany was experiencing huge and growing losses

1050
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: on the Eastern Front, it was decided to resort to

1051
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: the forced incorporation of homosexuals interned in concentration camps. As

1052
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: Schlagdenhaufen describes in his contribution, a number of testimonies show

1053
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: that this political strategy was seen as a last hope.

1054
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: The historian Rainier Hoffschlitt has retraced the career of Heinz F,

1055
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: one of the last homosexuals to have been forced into

1056
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: the army. On May one, eight days before the capitulation

1057
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: of Nazi Germany, he joined the Wehrmacht under duress and

1058
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: a lot again, how you want to morally judge the

1059
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: men who make the decision to join a unit like

1060
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: the Darawanger Brigade, or who are made to join it

1061
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: to avoid life in a camp because like, I don't know,

1062
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm a podcast host. I'm not gonna parce all this

1063
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: out for you. But this is a thing that happens, right,

1064
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: This is part of the history of World War two,

1065
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: and it's fucking art gnarly. There was a fucking by

1066
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: the end there it sounds like a rainbow coalition of bastards,

1067
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: you know. And they were I'm sorry, they were retraining

1068
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: the gay um soldiers like into straightness or into being

1069
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: like the strait nous. Right. The idea was that like, well,

1070
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: you know what is massacre? Yeah, their conversion therapy was like,

1071
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: go massacre this village with Oscar God, do something straight

1072
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: like killing innocent people terribly. Yeah, yeah, that's that's basically

1073
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: what's happening. In total, the Dura Wanger Brigade spent fifty

1074
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,959
Speaker 1: three months in Belarus, during which we know they killed

1075
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: at least thirty thousand people, most of whom were women

1076
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: and children. During this massacre, they'd expanded from a small

1077
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,439
Speaker 1: commando unit to a regiment of roughly two thousand men.

1078
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: So that's the death toll so far, right, people, and

1079
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: this is like, this is this is a death toll

1080
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: of people. This is like in one specific camp because

1081
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: like usually here numbers like this, and you started thinking like, oh,

1082
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: this is we got a death camp going No, this

1083
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: is this is a roving band of bastards who are

1084
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: going around doing murder, who have just emptied a big

1085
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: chunk of the Belarusian countryside, right like, that's what they're doing.

1086
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 1: And again it might have been significantly more than thirty thousand.

1087
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: As the Russian advance began to push the German army westward,

1088
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: the durl Wanger Brigade was sent back to Poland. When

1089
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: the Polish underground took control of parts of their former capital,

1090
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany redeployed badly needed forces to crush the city.

1091
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: Dr Wanger and his men were front and center. Their

1092
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: brutality was so intense that it stunned many of the

1093
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: soldiers they fought alongside. One of these men was an

1094
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: eighteen year old sapper named Shank, temporarily attached to the

1095
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: SS for the operation. He later wrote this quote, I

1096
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: would now like to describe the assault on the hospital

1097
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: as usual. Rushed to the objective grenades, and then after

1098
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: they exploded, we went in. I was about to fire,

1099
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: but I heard don't shoot from the inside. What do

1100
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: I do? I signaled to my comrades twentys away to

1101
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: cover me. I ordered the Poles to open the door

1102
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: and come out with their hands up. Inside I heard

1103
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: snatches of conversation, some in Polish, some in German. The

1104
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 1: door opened slowly and a Red Cross nurse stuck out

1105
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: a white flag. My comrades came up and we went

1106
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: in bayonets fixed a Polish officer, a doctor in fifteen

1107
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: Polish Red Cross nurses surrendered the hospital. The Germans asked

1108
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: us not to hurt the Polls. Then the s S arrived.

1109
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: They immediately executed all the Polish wounded and attacked the nurses,

1110
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: who were soon stripped and raped. We were pushed out

1111
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: the other door of the hospital. When we could come

1112
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: back that night, the s S had relieved us, there

1113
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: was tumult on the execution grounds. Soldiers from all the

1114
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: units ss Ukrainians were playing flute and singing, and there

1115
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: I saw something so frightening and horrible I can hardly

1116
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: describe it. Fifty years later, the s S were pushing

1117
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: the nurses, naked their hands on their heads to the gallows.

1118
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: They had cut a short tunic for the doctor had

1119
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: put a rope around his neck and pushed him towards

1120
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: the gallows, where some ten civilians were already hanging. The

1121
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: crowd laughed and shouted. Some soldiers were protesting, but they

1122
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: were drowned out. I saw we could do nothing, so

1123
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: I kept my remarks for our headquarters. Bro. Pretty bad

1124
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: war crimes, honestly, dude, At this point, I'm starting to

1125
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: think that Nazis were bad. Yeah, that is the unavoidable

1126
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: conclusion when you when you try to damn it. Yeah,

1127
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: pretty bad, pretty bad guys unit. Yeah, those are the

1128
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: guys raping and murdering nurses. J fuck. Shank makes it

1129
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: clear that whenever the enemy were actual soldiers with actual guns,

1130
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: the indisciplined, sloppy viciousness of the Dura Wanger of Durrah

1131
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: Wanger's men was as much a hindrance as a help,

1132
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: and like real combat. And here's another excerpt from his

1133
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: recollections quote, Then the reinforcements arrived the s s. It

1134
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: was the Dura Wanger Penal Battalion. Its soldiers wore no

1135
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: marks of rank, they had drunk a lot and weren't sober.

1136
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: They immediately attacked the Polish positions. They charged the houses,

1137
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: yelling Hurrah. Just in front of the houses, they fell

1138
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: under polish fire. They died by dozens, many were wounded.

1139
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: They didn't gain a meter of ground. Their leader was frenzied.

1140
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: We then advanced together with the s S under tank protection,

1141
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: a few meters in front of the buildings. The tank

1142
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,439
Speaker 1: was hit and exploded. A soldier's helmet flew into the air.

1143
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: So that's that. Part's funny. That parts that's good. What's

1144
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: not good is that the polls don't win the wars.

1145
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: I getta uprising right uh. And the violence that follows

1146
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: is a slaughter almost unparalleled in the history of armed conflict. Today,

1147
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: it's known as the Wola massacre. Rather than going to

1148
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: detail about every crime against humanity committed by these men,

1149
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: I am going to find an accurate summary of their activities.

1150
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: I found in an article by Peter Preskar quote the

1151
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: Dura Wanger Brigade reeked a vodka and death. They slaughtered

1152
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: innocent poles, regardless of age and sex. Dura Wanger, wearing

1153
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: a black coat, walked in the rear, screamed orders and

1154
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: shot anyone who lagged behind. The Drwinger Brigade and cooperation

1155
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: with the equally sadistic Kaminsky militia, massacred forty thousand unarmed men,

1156
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: women and children in the Wola district of Warsaw. They

1157
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: did all that in less than two weeks. Yeah, drro

1158
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: Wanger burned multiple hospitals. Patients Inside the hospital, nurses were whipped,

1159
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: gang raped, and hanged naked while popular German music was playing.

1160
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: At one point, darro Winger ordered his men to execute

1161
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: five hundred young children. He wanted his troops to save

1162
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,919
Speaker 1: their bullets, so they did the bulk of their work

1163
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: with rifle butts and bayonets. On another occasion, one of

1164
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: dara Winger's men took a pretty young woman. He cut

1165
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: her blouse open with a bayonet and then raped her. Afterwards,

1166
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: he cut her from belly to neck. So we're gonna

1167
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave that be in terms of descriptions of

1168
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: Nazi war crimes. But like when I say, these guys

1169
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: are like the worst, not like they're the worst of

1170
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: Like this is yeah, pretty pretty bad guys. How do

1171
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: you do how long you been doing this podcast? Man?

1172
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: Like four years? Five ye or something like that? I mean, god,

1173
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: damn dude, how do you is your How's how's your head?

1174
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: How's your mental head? You know, it's like you you get,

1175
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: you get a lot of stories like this you read, honestly,

1176
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: the ones that are like, I don't know, like, yeah,

1177
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: the thing that I think about when I when I

1178
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: read stories like this in terms of like visual things

1179
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: is them Because for the reporting that I did, I

1180
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: had to watch the christ Church massacre video a number

1181
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: of times. God, That's the thing that I think about

1182
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: the most when I think about, like, what kind of

1183
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: dude does this in in the way in which this

1184
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: kind of like yeah, the very specific sadism, the very specific,

1185
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: like I mean, just the the evil that veers into

1186
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: an illness type of like crimes where you're just like,

1187
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to obviously, I'm not trying

1188
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: to minimize it by saying that this is like, you know,

1189
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 1: obviously some sort of illness, but it just you can't

1190
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: you can't otherwise explain this level of sadism. I get

1191
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: what you have, guys, and we talked about token last

1192
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: episode a little bit. I get why you get guys

1193
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: like Tolkien who see pretty terrible things, who view evil

1194
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: as something supernatural a certain extent, right, because seeing something

1195
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: like this, like it all, there's there's a degree of

1196
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: to which it like, I don't know there there's there's

1197
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: something there that it is. It is hard. Maybe we're

1198
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: programmed to write to write like and maybe it's a

1199
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: defensive thing. You don't want to believe that it because

1200
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: it is. I think just people are capable of all

1201
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: sorts of fucked up shit. Um, but it it does

1202
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: feel in the same way that like, if you've ever

1203
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: fought a wildfire, it feels like there's some sort of

1204
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: intelligence to the wildfire. Um. It feels when you when

1205
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: you like read about cruelty like this, you almost it

1206
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: is hard not to feel like there's something there, you know,

1207
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: when you when you look into it that way. I

1208
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: don't know, not that that means there is anything, but

1209
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: it's hard not to feel that sometimes. Yeah, it's it's

1210
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: you understand how someone could um look at look at

1211
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, see these this level of atrocities and it

1212
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: works with their reality because their reality is based on

1213
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: kind of this like uh, logical emotionally logical foundation and

1214
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: framework with narratives, with stories, there's the reason in an

1215
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: action and a reaction and then seeing something this sadistic

1216
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: and going like this is otherworldly because this doesn't make sense,

1217
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't. This is who it's that hope you You

1218
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: would hope no one could enjoy something like this, and

1219
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: you would hope that other people would be like, hey,

1220
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't do this, But to see it in

1221
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: masses and an up close and personal it's got to be.

1222
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: I read about orcs and wizards and ship too, dude.

1223
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: I feel like this is why I talk about the

1224
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: Sopranos and the Wire because sad it is, it is,

1225
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: I mean worth noting that, like there are Nazis who

1226
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: try to stop this, like members to give you an

1227
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: idea of how bad this guy's Members of the s

1228
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: S during the cleansing of the Warsaw ghetto reprimand this

1229
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: guy for cruelty that I don't I don't know on

1230
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: like the bad guy CV, I don't know what else

1231
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: you could put above that, But like the SS in

1232
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: Warsaw was like Jesus Christ, this guy is unchanged. So

1233
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: he and his unit are reprimanded and they are removed

1234
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: to Hungary where they helped to put down the Slovak

1235
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: national uprising, and they again kill thousands. Terrible bloodshed. I

1236
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: feel like we have not too. I don't want to

1237
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,679
Speaker 1: like that, not that that's not also an important story,

1238
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: but like I feel like I've read enough stories of

1239
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: horrible sure, like you you can, you can get what

1240
01:08:55,400 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: they probably did over more atrocities beyond capability to even

1241
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 1: a man. Yeah, so you know if that happens. Uh.

1242
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 1: And it's here that the story of the Dara Wanger

1243
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: Brigade starts to come to an end. During an action

1244
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: against the Red Army, Oscar gets shot through the chest.

1245
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: Now he lives. We're not done yet, of course. Don't worry, though, Matt,

1246
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 1: this is actually gonna be fun. You're gonna like this

1247
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: last part. Yeah. So he gets separated from his unit

1248
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: because he's hurt pretty bad. Um, And now Oscar is

1249
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: not a dumb man, and he's pretty obvious at this point,

1250
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: we're not gonna win this thing, right, We're not. We're

1251
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: not gonna There's like one battle where like fifteen thousand

1252
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: rockets land on his troops positions. He's like, oh yeah,

1253
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: we're we're This probably isn't gonna go well for us, boy,

1254
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: So he he deserts and he goes into hiding near

1255
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: his own own old hometown. Most of his soldiers die fighting,

1256
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: some of them get captured, some of them do a

1257
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: lot you know, do dessert. Um. So there's cases of

1258
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: like anti fascists who deserted and joined the Red Army

1259
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: and wind up fighting there anyway. Um. And this is

1260
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: a story that does, thankfully have I'm not gonna call

1261
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: at a happy ending because this is a nightmare, but

1262
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: as close to a happy ending as you are going

1263
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: to get in a story about the s S and genocide.

1264
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: Because unlike a lot of the guys the Eronsets group

1265
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: of a lot of the guys who are like architects

1266
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: of the Holocaust to escape, Oscar does not escape. He

1267
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: gets captured by the French occupation forces at the end

1268
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: of the war and they put him in a jail.

1269
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 1: And I guess who's running that jail. Oh fuck, I

1270
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Former members of the Polish resistance. So guys

1271
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: who have been fighting his guys in Warsaw exactly. And

1272
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: those guys are like what we got who? Oh? Yeah,

1273
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: he's not he is not making it to trial, Like, no,

1274
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: this guy is not seeing the courtroom. We're we're gonna

1275
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: handle Yeah, We're gonna take care of this. So we

1276
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: have an account of what happens next from another Nazi,

1277
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: who's Darrel Wanger's cellmate, right, and here's what he writes.

1278
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:00,759
Speaker 1: Quote in front of the cell door, there was French soldier,

1279
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: a garden a red kepi. Never Nevertheless, when I was arrested,

1280
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: I did not see the frenchman, but rather armed and

1281
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: uniformed poles. On the next day came a sixteen year

1282
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: old Jew from Ebber's Bach Solgout County County, where he lived,

1283
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: and they let him punch us in the face, which

1284
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: he did under the which he did under the supervision

1285
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,679
Speaker 1: of the polls until he got tired. Now I'm gonna

1286
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: be like, if we're being totally honest, this is legally

1287
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 1: a war crime, I'm also fine with it. I'm completely

1288
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: fine with it. This is one of them look the

1289
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 1: other way. Yeah, let's let's let this boy whose family

1290
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: was massacred hit these Nazis as much as he fucking wants.

1291
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: I love it. Punch in the face is just a

1292
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: great It's a great way to start this. It's just like,

1293
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: all right, first we're gonna have the sixteen year old

1294
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: punch you in the face. Let him he until he's

1295
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: all tucker it out. Let him work some stuff out right,

1296
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 1: He's got some demon slid him exercise. I'm here quote,

1297
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna continue now. We returned to the cell with

1298
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: her face is completely shattered. I myself had been beaten

1299
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: on the same day by the polls, and only because

1300
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 1: I forgot refused to shout three times, I am a

1301
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: German pig. Durrell Wanger and Munch, who's another Nazi, were

1302
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: pulled out of the cell into the corridor every night

1303
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:17,799
Speaker 1: and brutally beaten. I heard blows and terrible screams. In daylight,

1304
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: I would see bleeding open wounds on the faces of

1305
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: munctioned Darrell Wanger, and their entire bodies were covered with

1306
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: bleeding welts. Munchen Darrell Wanger were taken from their cells

1307
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: separately three times on the night of fourth to fifth

1308
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: June and beaten in the corridor. After they returned to

1309
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 1: their cell for the third time, they could no longer

1310
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: speak or stand. After a short time, the guards came

1311
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 1: to the cell again and ordered them to get up

1312
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: and follow them. Neither Munch nor Durrell Wanger could lift themselves.

1313
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: Then the guards began to strike them with rifle butts

1314
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: in their heads so that their heads turned into indiscernible

1315
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: bloody pulp. Then they started kicking them in the stomachs.

1316
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: After that, the guards left both of them lying in

1317
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: the cell unconscious. I am surprised that, according to the

1318
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: registration of death performed by the French commandant, Durro Wanger

1319
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: had died only on the seventh of June nine. So

1320
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: you don't get this often with Nazi war criminals. But yeah,

1321
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: that's about the right way for that to end. Oh,

1322
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. That is just like the Catharsis, because yes,

1323
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: you do not get this often. It's always like they

1324
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: go to fucking you know, they go to Argentina and

1325
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: hide out and then they gotta be fucking like found

1326
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 1: this is they killed themselves like a bunch of bitches.

1327
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 1: And you know, we don't get that, like, you know,

1328
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: getting just beat to death. Victims of his crime spend

1329
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: days beating him to death and miserably in a cell.

1330
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: It's about I don't know again, not justice, not even legal,

1331
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 1: but like what do you want? You know, like what

1332
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: what what what do you want from these people other

1333
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: than to do that to him and I love that

1334
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: they whipped out all the classics. You know, they were

1335
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: just like the sadistic classics, the punching, the kicking, the

1336
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,400
Speaker 1: pistol whipping. You know, it must have hurt, like double

1337
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: knowing at like while he's being beaten to death, He's like,

1338
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: they're not even innovating new ways of doing this. They're

1339
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: not even building some sort of elaborate Roob Goldberg machine

1340
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: which kicks me in the nuts till I bleed to death.

1341
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: It's like, no, dude, we're just gonna fucking go. I'm

1342
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 1: on you right now. Yeah, we're just gonna yeah, the

1343
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: old stuff. So the old stuff. That's the story of

1344
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: Oscar Durrel Wanger. Um, Wow, boy, howdy what a piece

1345
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 1: of ship. There we go. Yeah. I don't like them.

1346
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: It is thoroughly nice to like, you know, have one

1347
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: where they actually you know, beat beat one where they

1348
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: get there. Yeah, I would say, statistically speaking, a lot

1349
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: of the times it's and they died at the ripe

1350
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: old age of way too long. Yea, they died comfortably

1351
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: in their bed. This is and I can imagine a

1352
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: heart woman is like those Polish guys are like, wait,

1353
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: that's sucking Oscar Durroll Winger. Yea, you know there's that.

1354
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: There's that kid came into town the other day. A

1355
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: whole family got wiped out by Darrell Wingers. Bring him

1356
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: in here, Yeah yeah, bring him in here. What a

1357
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: gift we're gonna We're gonna help him move past this.

1358
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: Oh man, I love it. That is like that, that

1359
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: is what that for that kid must have been. Just

1360
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, I don't but I hope it helped, right, Like, Yeah,

1361
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: I don't know that that makes it any better, but

1362
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: I can build a narrative in my head in which

1363
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: that does feel better for me to hear that, So

1364
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: I would. I certainly don't know if it helped that kid,

1365
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 1: but I can't imagine it hurt. No, you're not you.

1366
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: You are not turned into a worse person because you

1367
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: punch Oscar Darroll Wanger while he's in prison. I don't

1368
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: believe that. No, No, that is he's doing God's work right,

1369
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: He's doing right there for him. Yeah, they got it

1370
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 1: at the end there, the story really came together. Yeah.

1371
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 1: I wish it had started with him being beaten to

1372
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 1: death of some but all of these guys, you know,

1373
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 1: starting with them being beat to death. You know, it

1374
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: makes you kind of a little bit go like, no,

1375
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:20,640
Speaker 1: the Germans should have kept hitting their children. You know,

1376
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: it was all that, you know, the progressive lady being like,

1377
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do that. Well, look where that leaded. Well,

1378
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I will say that the point that that

1379
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 1: paper is making that we didn't maybe get new enough

1380
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: to tail is that like the way in which Dura

1381
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 1: Wanger's generation was raised kind of hinged on that when

1382
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: the not the generation the Nazis raise up that are

1383
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: like the young soldiers are trained, are like it is

1384
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 1: about hardness and physical discipline. I don't know that, like

1385
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: wh who actually knows right that guy Shank who was

1386
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: eighteen years old is raised under that system and clearly

1387
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 1: is like, well this is obviously wrong and evil, and

1388
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: I am on the wrong side. And I realized that

1389
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 1: now as a as a boy um, whereas Darrow Wanger

1390
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: grows up in a more progressive age and is like

1391
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 1: the worst person I magine. So I don't know what

1392
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: to take it about that we don't have the problems,

1393
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 1: We don't actually have enough to tail about his childhood

1394
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: to like make more conclusions about what was going on

1395
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 1: and whether they impacted it or if he was just

1396
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: just an asshole. Yeah, it sounds like an asshole. Um,

1397
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: sounds like I mean, I'm just gonna be help. Yeah.

1398
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,599
Speaker 1: That's the thing about World War One. It really it didn't.

1399
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: It didn't make him better. I think we can conclude that.

1400
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: But to be fair to the rest of the veterans

1401
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 1: of World War One, uh, they didn't do the same ship.

1402
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: Gerald Tolken wrote about Hobbits afterwards. About Hobbits, he was

1403
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: just like, what if there's these cute little Irish kids

1404
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: and all they do is, you know, smoke weed and

1405
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: find rings of power? Yeah, same war, same battlefields. One

1406
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: guy winds up doing the worst things I've ever read about,

1407
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: And the other guy is like, what if there were

1408
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: little people who like to eat for breakfast? That seems nice.

1409
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write about one fighting a dragon. Yeah. What

1410
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: if they were elves and they're all hot? Yeah yeah,

1411
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: like a reason, they're just the hottest people. And there's

1412
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: also the dwarves and they're funny, like yeah, good for

1413
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: Tolkien man. Yeah yeah, anyway, Really, that's what the that's

1414
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: the message here is Jero Tolkien was pretty good at

1415
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 1: processing trauma. Exactly. He was very good at processing it.

1416
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: And I think we can all safely say that he

1417
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: would not give a fuck that Amazon cast Black Elves like,

1418
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 1: I don't think he would care. He would hate the show,

1419
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: but not for that reason, right right, right, You would

1420
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 1: hate the show for a thousand other reasons, thousand, a

1421
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 1: thousand of reasons you would never understand in your entire

1422
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: ready every one of his books, some of them would

1423
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:57,919
Speaker 1: be like, well, what are you going on about? John Um? Anyway,

1424
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: the episodes over, you want to plug your I do

1425
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: I do. If you've stuck around this long, then you

1426
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: must be excited for a plug. I do a wonderful

1427
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: the wire rewatch podcast called pod Yourself The Wire Um.

1428
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: You should listen to it, and you should give us

1429
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:18,760
Speaker 1: five stars in review. I just want that. I just

1430
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: want this one to have all the reviews. I don't

1431
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: even care that if anyone listens to it. But it's like,

1432
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, when I go into the Apple podcast store,

1433
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: I see like people they got like four thousand reviews

1434
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 1: and you know five thousand, and I'm like, I want

1435
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: to be one of those podcasts. So do that for us,

1436
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 1: and then also listen to it. Review Bomb and listen

1437
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 1: to Matt's podcast. You can say anything in the review

1438
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 1: as long as it's five stars. You can be like, oh, Matt,

1439
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 1: it's a great podcast. Although he keeps talking about feet

1440
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: feel free mentioned feet, I don't care, just five stars

1441
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: we love them. Well, you can check that out. You

1442
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,040
Speaker 1: can read my book After the Revolution. Just type it

1443
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: in with a k press or just type it into

1444
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: like whatever book buying website you use. You will find

1445
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 1: it and can get any book or a physical copy.

1446
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: And you know, as you go out into the world

1447
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: after this harrowing week, be the sixteen year old punching

1448
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: a Nazi in the face that you have them around

1449
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: the world, right, Hell yeah, dude, fuck yeah. Behind the

1450
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

1451
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media

1452
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart

1453
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.