WEBVTT - Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we just need to apologize right now for taking

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<v Speaker 1>over your TikTok for you page.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Sorry, not sorry, my yuy. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>All the old ones are going viral, but the new

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<v Speaker 1>ones are so much better. Okay, I'm so glad you

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<v Speaker 1>found them. Follow like whatever you're supposed to do on

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<v Speaker 1>these podcasts and just sit back and listen.

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<v Speaker 3>Second Data Dating.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, we've talked about people getting back into the

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<v Speaker 4>dating game after being out of it for a while,

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<v Speaker 4>but we don't normally speak to people on this segment

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<v Speaker 4>who are using dating apps for the very first time,

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<v Speaker 4>like ever.

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<v Speaker 3>Ever, it's like a time warp.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, if you haven't dated since twenty ten and you

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<v Speaker 4>met somebody at a grocery store, nowadays, you're.

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<v Speaker 5>Getting an eggplant, all right, Oh, but it's a digital one.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't know if you even wanted it in

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<v Speaker 4>the first place. But that's what happened with Rachel recently.

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<v Speaker 4>She emailed us saying this is her very first time

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<v Speaker 4>being on a dating app and she actually met a

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<v Speaker 4>great guy who's somehow not calling her back.

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<v Speaker 3>So Rachel, welcome, Hey, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just curious because I've ever been on dating apps, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because I met my.

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<v Speaker 2>Husband like before.

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<v Speaker 1>They were huge, like what is it like for your

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<v Speaker 1>first time?

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<v Speaker 6>It made me feel kind of old too though, I

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<v Speaker 6>mean I had been in a relationship since college, so

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<v Speaker 6>like seven, you know what I mean, So like I

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<v Speaker 6>just completely knew for me, and when I got flooded

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<v Speaker 6>with all these guys, it was exciting. It kind of

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<v Speaker 6>it boosted my ego. But it took me about like

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<v Speaker 6>two and a half weeks to find someone that actually

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<v Speaker 6>fit all of my criteria and.

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<v Speaker 7>That was Jack.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you messaged him.

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<v Speaker 6>So he reached out to me. So I thought that

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<v Speaker 6>was vulnerable, you know what I mean, Like that's pretty hardcore.

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<v Speaker 2>And.

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<v Speaker 3>Thousands of other guys did. But it's okay, he said, Hey.

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<v Speaker 8>She's like, oh my god, he's so formal.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, how long did it take you to go

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<v Speaker 1>out with him? Like between talking to him on the

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<v Speaker 1>app and then the actual.

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<v Speaker 6>Date Actually about five days So we started kind of

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<v Speaker 6>like Sunday Monday talking and then that weekend he was

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<v Speaker 6>free and I was free.

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<v Speaker 1>So and I feel like a weekend date is a

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<v Speaker 1>big commitment day. I don't know, like using your weekend

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<v Speaker 1>for that.

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<v Speaker 8>I'll take a day any day.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the week. It didn't work out.

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<v Speaker 4>I think single people think anytime is a good time.

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<v Speaker 4>Married people like, my weekend is my own time. So

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<v Speaker 4>what did you guys end up doing?

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<v Speaker 3>Rachel?

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<v Speaker 6>So we ended up going to dinner. Okay, it was

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<v Speaker 6>really really sweet. We met there. So I took an uber.

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<v Speaker 2>And what what was that like for you? Because it's

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<v Speaker 2>like your first dating.

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<v Speaker 3>Uber ride knowledge. It is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's her first dating app. It's the first guy she's

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<v Speaker 2>met on this.

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<v Speaker 1>I would be so nervous if I were you, just

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<v Speaker 1>because God, that's a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a lot.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm a huge fan of broad City, and I felt

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<v Speaker 6>like I was in city. What was actual date like, Oh, well,

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<v Speaker 6>he was just such a gentleman, like he was dreaming.

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<v Speaker 6>He was such a good listener to you guys, like,

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<v Speaker 6>oh that's important.

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<v Speaker 3>He was what it's important?

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<v Speaker 2>Did your ex come up a lot?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I mean you did mention to us that you

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<v Speaker 1>were together for a really really long time.

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<v Speaker 6>It did, because, like I said, it was over a decade,

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<v Speaker 6>and each thing that came up, he seemed to roll

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<v Speaker 6>with it and it didn't seem to bother him. I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>because here's the thing I was up front with him

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<v Speaker 6>from the get go, and I told him straightforward that

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<v Speaker 6>I'm not going to go home with him.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh oh, this is like immediately after the handshake.

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<v Speaker 6>This was like after the first appetecture because I wanted

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<v Speaker 6>to kind of lose them things up, but I just

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<v Speaker 6>didn't want to get too loose, if you know what

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<v Speaker 6>I mean.

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<v Speaker 8>Okay, but it also sounds good. You want to set

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<v Speaker 8>boundaries and.

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<v Speaker 2>He should respect.

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<v Speaker 1>It could also come across as rude though, like you're

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<v Speaker 1>also assuming that that's all that he's looking.

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<v Speaker 3>For, you know, like Brooks only saying that because she

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<v Speaker 3>never never crossed her.

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<v Speaker 5>Time.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, he could have been insulted by that was his reaction.

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<v Speaker 3>Were you able to gauge it.

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<v Speaker 6>He was taken aback, but he said he wasn't expecting anything.

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<v Speaker 6>So maybe, like you said, it just kind of threw

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<v Speaker 6>him off or whatever. And I mean, here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 6>When you talked about bringing out my ex, so the

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<v Speaker 6>first time I didn't, I didn't cry. Guys, you know I.

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<v Speaker 3>Was on the date.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm glad teared up whenever I think of Dylan. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>that's my my ex.

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<v Speaker 7>And up.

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<v Speaker 3>I hear Rachel, hang right now, even just mentioning it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's hard.

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<v Speaker 1>You probably were still emotional then if you're just like

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<v Speaker 1>just now not crying talking.

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<v Speaker 6>About him, I think maybe that the drinks didn't help,

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<v Speaker 6>you know.

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<v Speaker 8>Its enhances it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that that's why Jack isn't calling you back?

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<v Speaker 6>I don't think so. No, he was, like I said,

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<v Speaker 6>he didn't see it like, he didn't seem like he

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<v Speaker 6>was weirded out by it at all. And no, it

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<v Speaker 6>seems time.

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<v Speaker 8>We all know you obviously didn't hook up, but did

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<v Speaker 8>you guys like kids or hug or like do anything

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<v Speaker 8>else that's like intimate.

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<v Speaker 6>No, he was a gentleman, so we just like this

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<v Speaker 6>side had thing.

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<v Speaker 2>The side hugged like I do with all my friends.

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<v Speaker 4>Armed hug.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I know that that's a good sign.

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<v Speaker 6>It was my first date, like I haven't been in

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<v Speaker 6>an real in person date in over a decade. By

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<v Speaker 6>give me a break, hug.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we're just sorry. We've a lot of dating stories,

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<v Speaker 4>but your sounds very nice, especially for your first time

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<v Speaker 4>back into the dating pool, first time on a dating app.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's let's play a song.

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<v Speaker 4>We'll give not Dylan, uh Jack, Jack, I am so sorry.

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<v Speaker 4>I promise you Rachel, I will not call him Dylan.

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, this is gonna be the last time I

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<v Speaker 4>ever say Dylan on this show.

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<v Speaker 1>A song.

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<v Speaker 4>We'll come back and we'll call Jack for you, not Dylan,

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<v Speaker 4>right after this second date.

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<v Speaker 3>Number. If you're just joining us for the second date.

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<v Speaker 4>We're talking to Rachel, who went on her first first

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<v Speaker 4>date in a very long time. She said it's been

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<v Speaker 4>more than a decade since she's gone on one, and

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<v Speaker 4>she's never been on a dating app before. This was

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<v Speaker 4>her first time on a dating app, and that was

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit overwhelming, which is understandable. In fact, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>gonna do an impression right now of a guy seeing

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<v Speaker 4>fresh meat on a.

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<v Speaker 3>Dating take the music down, Oh yeah, oh a newbie.

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<v Speaker 4>We're gonna stay at Applebee's for twenty minutes and then

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<v Speaker 4>go back to my mom's house and she's gonna watch

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<v Speaker 4>me play Mario Kart oh Man.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like she was dating in college all over again.

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<v Speaker 4>Jack, who she met, wasn't like that. He was different.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a gentleman. And how do I know that

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<v Speaker 4>they were a good match because Rachel said she didn't

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<v Speaker 4>cry once.

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<v Speaker 3>During their entire.

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<v Speaker 2>Cry about her ex.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, cry in general. Yeah, no tears, that's love.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So, Rachel, we're about to give Jack a call. How

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<v Speaker 3>are you feeling.

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<v Speaker 6>Honestly, I'm hoping for the best. There was nothing but

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<v Speaker 6>positive vibes. So I feel like something happened, maybe at

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<v Speaker 6>his job or family. I don't know. I hope everything's okay,

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<v Speaker 6>but he's just perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>And also, it's like, you know, this is new to you.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of options out there that you haven't

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<v Speaker 1>even explored.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, talking on the town.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how you get over people.

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<v Speaker 8>Jeff, there is one thing that doesn't change in dating,

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<v Speaker 8>and that's vibes. Like you can tell if something happened

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<v Speaker 8>on the date. You could pinpoint a moment usually, so

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<v Speaker 8>you don't feel like there was something, then maybe there was.

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<v Speaker 1>She hasn't even really dated in her adult life. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you've had the same boyfriend since you were in college.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, like just want you to make up for

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<v Speaker 1>lost time.

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<v Speaker 2>But okay, let's call Jack.

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<v Speaker 4>You know what, We're just gonna stop projecting our feelings

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<v Speaker 4>and our failed relationships onto you.

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<v Speaker 3>We're just gonna dial Jack and see what he has

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<v Speaker 3>to say.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, okay, okay, Hello, Hey, is this Jack?

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, this is Jack.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this hey Jack? My name is jeff from the

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<v Speaker 3>radio show brook and Jeffrey in the Morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, that's that's my co host Brooks, who just jumped

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<v Speaker 4>in with a weird voice.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it just sounded like how he was hitting on

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<v Speaker 1>us when he answered the phone.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was like, return to the favorite Jack.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I think it's interesting because like it was

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<v Speaker 1>an unknown number, right, Were you expecting someone else on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone?

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<v Speaker 5>Jack?

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<v Speaker 7>I'm sorry, what is this all about you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure you're very confused.

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<v Speaker 4>This lady is talking at you and kind of hitting

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<v Speaker 4>on you at the same time. So we're a morning

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<v Speaker 4>radio show and we're doing a segment called the Second

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<v Speaker 4>Date Update where we're trying to help one of our

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<v Speaker 4>listeners get in touch with.

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<v Speaker 3>You after you went out.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh geez, sounds like fun, right, all right, what do

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<v Speaker 4>you What do you need from me?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we heard a lot of good things about you,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's a good start.

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<v Speaker 3>And we heard them from one of our listeners named Rachel.

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<v Speaker 7>Oh okay, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So tell us what you thought about Rachel.

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<v Speaker 7>I mean, Rachel, was she's nice?

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<v Speaker 2>Would she attracted me? Were you attracted to her?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you feel like you guys had some chemistry.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, you know, I think she's beautiful. She's really cool,

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<v Speaker 7>and I think maybe she's just going through a lot

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<v Speaker 7>right now and working through stuff. But I was not

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<v Speaker 7>prepared to talk about this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, she told us some stuff about like her

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<v Speaker 1>ex and maybe how she talked about that on the date.

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<v Speaker 4>She's had a lot of really nice things about you,

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<v Speaker 4>about how you're a great guy and a good listener.

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<v Speaker 2>She said, you're a great listener.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, that's super nice of her. I she was just

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<v Speaker 7>really specific about what she wants and a guy and

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<v Speaker 7>kind of went on and on about how I fit

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<v Speaker 7>those things.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was that wasn't good to you.

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<v Speaker 7>I mean, it's nice, it's nice. Is I think it

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<v Speaker 7>was just like a little much at some point.

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<v Speaker 3>What was much.

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<v Speaker 7>Like, I don't know, first dates are supposed to be

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<v Speaker 7>a little more chill and steer the conversation towards things

0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.800
<v Speaker 7>that are maybe more fun and getting to know each other,

0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.880
<v Speaker 7>and it was just, uh, basically at one point I

0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.720
<v Speaker 7>was like, look, I just want to get to know you,

0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.319
<v Speaker 7>you know, and she she smiled, and she reached into

0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.959
<v Speaker 7>her purse and handed me an index card.

0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what was on the index card?

0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.280
<v Speaker 3>Index cards are sexy?

0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Is it a recipe from her grandma or something?

0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.679
<v Speaker 7>I kind of wish it was. On top it said

0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.920
<v Speaker 7>physical boundaries and kind listed all these physical things that

0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.880
<v Speaker 7>she would allow, and she also listed them by date.

0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh you mean like like first kiss, three dates in

0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.720
<v Speaker 1>you can touch my butt four dates exactly?

0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.200
<v Speaker 3>It really.

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 7>Planning.

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:50.839
<v Speaker 3>Do you have the card?

0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.280
<v Speaker 7>Yeah? Oh yeah, date one, fist bump bump, I hug

0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:57.680
<v Speaker 7>and high five.

0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.480
<v Speaker 8>Ah oh my god, wow, send me the card before

0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:01.839
<v Speaker 8>the date.

0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.720
<v Speaker 4>From what we heard, it sounded like you did that

0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.200
<v Speaker 4>side hug on the first day.

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:08.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.160
<v Speaker 7>Oh yeah, yeah, we definitely we did. Actually we did

0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 7>do this.

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.679
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, how was it?

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.720
<v Speaker 7>Oh it was exactly what you did expect.

0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So it wasn't necessarily her boundaries, it was the

0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:22.840
<v Speaker 1>way they were presented.

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Is that what you're saying.

0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 7>I think it's cool, like her therapist says, always create boundaries,

0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.920
<v Speaker 7>which she told me, you know, and I think it's

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.600
<v Speaker 7>super healthy. That's great, but it's just not what I'm

0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.680
<v Speaker 7>looking for. It's just a little much to me, and

0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.840
<v Speaker 7>especially talking about on the first date like that.

0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, maybe there's a more organic way to work

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:40.079
<v Speaker 1>in your boundaries.

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 4>Like, what's more organic than having her be on the

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 4>radio with you and tell her her boundaries right now

0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 4>because she's been on the other line listening, Jack, and

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 4>she wants to talk to you.

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:51.320
<v Speaker 7>No.

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know she's not respecting your boundary in that way.

0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:05.200
<v Speaker 7>No, Jack, Yeah, we had some great time.

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.040
<v Speaker 6>I mean you you're such a sweetheart. You just told

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.000
<v Speaker 6>me that you you like, like you think I'm attractive,

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, like I'm trying to be a great communicator,

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.400
<v Speaker 6>you know what I mean, Like no gray areas. I

0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.560
<v Speaker 6>thought you would appreciate to know exactly what I want,

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 6>what I needed, you know, like I'm not I'm not

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:22.439
<v Speaker 6>trying to play games.

0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a hot pitch right there.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, Jack, feel free to respond Rachel.

0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 7>Rachel, Okay, look, this is a I can't believe you're

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 7>on We're on the radio right now. This is ridiculous.

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think it's very fun.

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.000
<v Speaker 7>It's just even though I think you're a great person,

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 7>you were clearly physically attractive, and it's just like the

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.080
<v Speaker 7>chemistry was just not there, you know, And like the

0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 7>way this this whole boundary note card thing was was

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.160
<v Speaker 7>brought up. It just kind of killed the vibe. And

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:57.280
<v Speaker 7>I know maybe.

0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.200
<v Speaker 4>Dude, do you know how many times a note card

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 4>would have saved me on one of my Craigslist meetups,

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.319
<v Speaker 4>whether or not like you think it's if it's going

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 4>too far, it's like taking the spontaneity out of it.

0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 4>She's just trying to show you what she's comfortable with

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:16.600
<v Speaker 4>doing before things get awkward for your car. I mean,

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 4>it's her first date in a really, really long time,

0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:21.680
<v Speaker 4>so she's just trying to get her feedback under her.

0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 7>It doesn't mean you need to be a robot, though.

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.400
<v Speaker 7>It's like when I walk through your car, I have

0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 7>to pull out the note card and check what I

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:28.160
<v Speaker 7>can do. If it's like.

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 6>You said, we didn't have any chemistry, but I guarantee

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 6>that server what I told you different. And to be honest,

0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 6>it's your loss because after date i'ma five, things really

0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 6>open up.

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the thing about Rachel, she sounds like someone

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>who's very organized and maybe very different from you and

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.920
<v Speaker 1>could really bring some other aspects to your life that

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>you don't have.

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 4>Right now, Let's get to the second day on your

0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 4>note card so we can get to some of that

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 4>other stuff, because we'd like to pay for that. What

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 4>do you say, Jack, give it another shot, Rachel.

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 7>I just I think it's cool that you think we

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 7>had chemistry. I just think that, like a lot of

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.320
<v Speaker 7>the fund was kind of drained out of it as

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 7>soon as those boundaries came up and.

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Give her a second chance on the second day. She

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 2>knows that already. She doesn't have a second note card?

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Do you, Rachel? Do you have another note?

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:21.400
<v Speaker 7>Not anymore? Now?

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Look at maybe you could just change. She's funny. She's funny.

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Jack.

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 7>All right, you know, if we can start over, If

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 7>we can start over, and.

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 8>It's like a punch card, you're gonna get like a free.

0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 2>So are you just saying yes? Is that what you're saying, Jack?

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 7>I mean yeah, Okay, I'll say yes, but I'll pretend

0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 7>like the card never happened.

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, she still wants you to.

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:50.880
<v Speaker 7>Jack.

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 6>I'm actually excited and I'm really happy that I was

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 6>vulnerable and called the station. Thank you guys.

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 4>You barely cried once during this entire call. That must

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 4>mean it was a positive experience.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, just don't say that code word that makes her cry.

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 7>It's Dylane. Oh God, Brooke and Jeffrey in the morning,