WEBVTT - Selects: How Profiling Works 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.880 Hey, everybody, it's your bro Josh, and for this week's 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.520 s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our episode from 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:12.520 July of two thousand fifteen on the extraordinarily controversial practice 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.840 of profiling. You'll find out all the ins and outs 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.120 of profiling when it actually works, why it generally doesn't, 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.320 and why it's so just utterly offensive in general. Plus 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.040 you'll also get to hear Chuck classic Chuck after he 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.000 got back from adopting his daughter, and he gets to 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.640 thank everybody who helped him along the way. And it's 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.279 just very nice and heartwarming, especially considering the episode it's 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.920 attached to. So at any rate, I hope you enjoy 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:46.919 it and take good care, Doe do do? What was that? 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.720 That is a heraldic announcement? Yes, before we get going, Uh, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.280 I know people on social media already know this stuff, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.880 but I wanted to announce on the podcast that Chuck 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.040 here has opted a baby. Girl. Chuck has a baby, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.560 A beautiful baby. Yeah she is, she's cuteie. She she 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.880 was ten days late, so she came out and not 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.520 looking like one of those little alien creatures. No, she 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.440 fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name is 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.039 Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she was 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.480 born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One of 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.839 the better days of the year July fift But isn't 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.600 that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of all 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.679 the days. And I was literally I was just like, well, 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.360 let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just, you know, 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.400 for giggles to see what you know, who shares her birthday. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:37.679 About three quarters of the way down and saw your 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.080 face and I had forgotten it was your birthday because 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.400 I was just in another planet, and I like, immediately 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.080 I was like, Emily, you got to see this. You'll 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.960 never guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.000 really neat. Um. So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.560 the support. Stop stop chuck, Yes on behalf of every stuff. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.280 You should know. A listener out there, yes, congratulate since 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.280 to you and Emily. Do you feel like you can 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.920 speak for them? Yes? Of course, Okay, because there might 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:06.800 be one guy out there he's like, I don't care, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.160 he can stop listening right now. But I do have 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.799 some people to thank. Um. This happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.799 and Um. We stayed in this little area called East Village. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.280 It was literally like a block in this loft and 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:26.120 Airbnb loft and above pizza place and across street from 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.639 a bar. And I'll bet you have some people to think. Yeah, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.280 these people like took us in as family. It was 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.480 like literally every day, you know, for ten days late, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:36.520 we're out there two days early. So for like two 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.359 weeks they were like, what's going on? You know, where's 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.360 this baby? So I want to thank how just bend 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.520 which you would love to do? This cocktail bar right 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.440 up your alley. It sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.440 And not only do they make like fresh you know, 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.520 fresh ingredients, but they don't have like a thing of 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:58.720 cucumber sliced uff. They uncumber as needed nice and you 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.640 know the jalapeno you would have. They were doing it 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.720 right there. So Jamie and Nate and Nicole and Ian 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:06.440 the chef at I've just been it was the stuff 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.239 you should know. Man. Oh yeah, he came out and 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:09.720 he was like is it who I think it is? 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:15.120 How fortuitous? How fortuitous? And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.079 We stayed above this place and they were great. Did 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.080 the smell drive you nuts all the time? But we 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.960 ate a lot of people. Okay, Uh, so Pat there 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.919 and my boy Max, Max and I really hit it off. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:30.560 Were like genuine life pals down uh and he at 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.320 the end, I go to leave and I just give 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.120 him a letter saying thank you and here's my contact info. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:37.920 And then like p s. By the way, I have 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.160 a podcast. He's an ornithologist, he has his master's, but 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.400 he's not doing that right now. You know, he's running 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.600 this pizza joint and just a really smart guys, Like 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.200 I could think you might like this podcast. I do. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.480 He comes up and tells me afterwards, this is like 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.440 our parting words. He was like, dude, your chuck. He's like, really, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.360 I had a weird like thing. He said, I knew 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.040 that you seemed for Millier, but I didn't want to 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.760 say anything, like even watched the TV show. Oh wow. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.480 So Max was like, that's probably why I didn't want 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.640 to say anything. Yeah, he didn't want to bring it up. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.320 So a huge thanks to those guys. And then um 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.640 our caseworker Jessica Um also a stuff you should know 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.840 fan that is amazing because at the end of our 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.080 first call like a month ago. She went, all right, 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.719 we've got business done. I have something I have to admit. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.000 It's like, I'm a huge fan man. So it was weird. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:29.960 It was like the stuff you should know, nation sort 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.640 of caring for me. Yeah, and all of the people 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.279 like you. You put a picture of Ruby Rose up, yeah, 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.880 and like broke the internet. It was it was people 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.799 love newborns. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn. Yeah. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.360 But you know it could have been a puppy and 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:50.040 probably gotten don I don't think that was very sweet. Yeah, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:51.839 so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.960 her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.000 listeners to they are awesome boys, and she really took 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.200 care of us. So I'm glad it worked out like 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.760 a man three weeks sin Tulsa. It was a weird 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.240 and stressful and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.239 I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby, 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.200 and I was in the man zone right behind. I 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.200 am so proud of you guys. I'm so happy for 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.400 you guys. I also want to say Jerry is not 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.240 allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.960 we could take the duck tapeall for today, maybe, Jerry, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:27.240 how do you feel? Yes, she said, yeah, she agrees. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:32.840 She just spelled out on the speaking spelled called them police. Anyway, 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.159 this is not going to become the New Baby show. Um, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.919 she will probably disappear from uh your lives. But just 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.080 know that we're all doing great and thank you for 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:45.880 the support. All right, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulates, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:50.240 Thank you, sir. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:59.360 production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.680 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:08.680 which means it's time for listener mayo. Oh wait, wow 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.080 about that, I'm brain to start. That's why we leave 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.719 that in there. Do you want to ye? Or maybe 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.600 I should just read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.000 it's a build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad libs. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.040 Just fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.720 I'm pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well? This 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.080 is a that's a different thing. This yeah, okay, I 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.720 think that has to do with um, like photography, no 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.400 think styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:49.160 you're fashionable and hip. Oh gotcha. Yeah, No, this is different. Yeah, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.279 and this is a grab star article, which is the 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.480 mark of quality, as we all know it is. It's 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.159 refreshing to see and it is Um, we should just 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.400 say right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic. 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:05.120 Oh yeah, Um, there are many ways to look at it, 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.120 and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.920 a tough one. Yeah, so that's my caveat. It's divisive. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.840 So um. One thing that grabs her immediately points out 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:22.120 is like, not all profiling is profiling, like you think 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.560 of Sure, we're going to talk about all the different ways, right, 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:30.920 There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one, um, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.920 is the standard all points bulletin or be on the lookout, Right, 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.760 that's the kind that no one has a problem with. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.280 No one does, Yeah, because that you you know what 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.840 that is. That's uh, silver toyota to coma with spotted 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:47.360 today and white male in his mid forties with spiky 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.160 hair and uh sort of chubby with a big gross 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.760 gray black beard has committed a crime and he's wearing 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.400 cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I see you're describing 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:04.560 yourself profiler, but you put in their white male. And 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.840 the reason that's what I am. The reason why people 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.120 don't have a problem with this is twofold one. A 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.680 crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay, I committed a crime. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.560 So the police work is finding a perpetrator that has 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.800 already committed a crime. And secondly, that profile is based 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:27.440 on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person. That's right, So 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.920 that profile is being used to track down a specific person. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.880 Has nothing to do with anybody else. Who's white, has 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.520 nothing to do with anybody else, who drives a silver Tacoma, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.880 has nothing to do with any of that jazz. It's 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:48.400 just this guy is suspected of having committed this crime 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.960 and he looks like this. Yeah you hear. You see 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.080 it on the news every night. Yes, you know that's 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.040 not just cops that use this. The news will say 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:01.120 the suspect is, uh, you know, wearing a handsome, checkered Oxford, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:08.120 button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth exactly, so 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.480 they're describing you, Oh you think my teeth are nice? 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:13.680 I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight. 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.439 That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.480 from a guy who just found out he's about to 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.719 have to lose his front tooth all over again, start over. Yeah, man, 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:26.839 that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.880 there that are laughing Aaron Cooper that toothless Chuck is 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.440 coming back in the house for it. It's really just him. Yeah, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.760 he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.080 at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.320 I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.280 from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.720 implant and it's for life. Yeah, especially when they sell 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:55.080 you a lifetime implant. Yeah, exactly. Alright. So, uh, like 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.920 you said, including descriptions and skin color is not controversial 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.640 this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the FEDS to 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.880 the local police are okay with that. Yeah, they're all 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.960 in on it. And and not just the police, like 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.480 everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.160 not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.200 and this is when you don't have a lot of 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.240 physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.120 trying to fill in the blanks and make some good 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.640 guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh, 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.560 some good guesses based on like the crime scene or 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.840 just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:36.800 has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:43.000 who solved it, and you're taking committed it. You're trying 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.240 to figure out who's gonna solve it alright, alright, which 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.040 you figure out the same moment when as you do 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.360 when you figure out who committed it. It's interesting mind bending. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.079 Right Twice you've jumped to the end of something. It's 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.000 so weird. I don't know what that means. I think 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.080 you know what it means. Uh. Sometimes they are vague, 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.800 but wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay, I didn't 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.800 mess it up that bad. Let me go back and finish. Um. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:12.080 The point is it's drawn from available evidence, Yeah, clues, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.920 clues that you're bringing together to try to draw up 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.520 an idea of who did this, right exactly, Okay, So 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.480 sometimes it can be vague, but if you watch TV 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.120 and movies, um, it is probably not how it really 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.840 goes down, but it's super specific when you see it 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.640 in fiction, you know, like I think this, uh as 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.680 a man who was beaten as a child, and he 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:41.080 probably lives alone or Sherlock Holmes was really good at 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.920 that kind of thing. It's a good point. Love Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.880 that's good stuff. Uh did you know he was a 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.400 morphine and cocaine addict? Really? Yeah? Well I guess you 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.600 need both in like the original stories? Really yeah? Oh 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:59.760 like in the books. Wow, not the real guy right, 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.000 as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.040 thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.080 Originals and he like does he shoots morphing in it? 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.360 And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.400 Yeah he's straight edge. No, he's not straight edge, but 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.280 he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.640 didn't care. He was like, Watson, wash my toes. So 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:31.880 I can between them all right, Moving on to predictive profiling, Well, yeah, 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.360 this is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah, 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.319 I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.240 a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.120 not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:47.319 a guessing game as anything else. Um, But it's not 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:52.040 nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.600 trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.880 right not not not civil sorry issue, big time, big time. Um. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:08.000 Police officers do great work. Ideally, they're not just reacting 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.840 to committed crimes, but they are um driving around the 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.880 neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that might be about 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.840 to commit a crime, to prevent crime, to prevent a crime, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.520 which is tough to do. You know, it's right place, 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.800 right time in most cases. And you use the word 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:28.760 ideally right ideally yes. Um. So even when this happens, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.920 this Supreme Court has roundly um sided with police officers 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:40.120 um as profiling for justification. So it's legally speaking, okay, 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.200 it's on the books. It's on the books. So so 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.280 give an example of the kind of profiling that's okay 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.840 to be used. Um. The one of the article is great. Um. 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.000 Let's say you're in uh, South Florida, and you're you're 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.760 traveling up and you're in a it's four a m. 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.600 And you're in a rented black suv with tinted windows, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.480 and you have the spare tire in the back seat removed. Um, 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.360 I'm sorry, it's it's removed from the trunk area. It's 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.800 in the backseat, just sitting in the back seat. Might 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.280 be might be a drug trafficker, right, And the cop 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.960 is basing this on something like, um, a profile, Yeah, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.760 but a profile based on previous experiences with other drug 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.720 dealers in the same area. Because that's a really big 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.440 one right there. Like um. One of the things for 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:39.480 using profiles successfully is it has it's it has it 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.880 has to be over a certain period of time and 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.200 associated with a certain place. So you use Miami and 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:51.840 say Miami, right, if you saw that person and you 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.680 would say, well, this is probably a cocaine trafficker based 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.920 on all the other dealings with cocaine traffickers who who 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.160 used the same transportation. M Yeah, And we should point 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.200 out the tires removed, because you can then hide the 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.560 drugs where their spare tire went, and then that's why 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.520 the tires in the back seat. Yes, so these are 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:14.560 red flags. But if you're like in um Wyoming in 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.040 two thousand fifteen, and you read an article about how 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:23.200 that held true in Miami. That is not necessarily a 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:27.880 justifiable transference of profiling because it exists in a different time, 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.840 in a different place. That's right. So, like you said, 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.680 this can be a this can be high level policy, UM, 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.320 it can be unofficial policy. It can be just merely 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.240 experienced as a police officer. That's something you've encountered from 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.680 time to time and basically to determine if this profile 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.920 justifies a search warrantless search that is, in other words, 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.720 you haven't gone to the judge and as applied for 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.160 a warrant and had them review it and all that 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.440 stuff or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. Um. 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.840 It's got a stand up in court, right, and so 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.120 you gotta be careful as a cop you do. Um, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.040 you have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:15.280 was established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.080 Terry versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.880 is actually from a Matt ti abi Um article. It's 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.000 really really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.120 It was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.280 It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.440 this terry case led to what are called terry stops, 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.000 whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:45.000 put into words meaning it's not just a hunch, um, 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:49.520 that somebody is is either just committed a crime or 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.640 going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.480 and it's browns first search. Yeah, And here's a had 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.800 a great example here, like let's say the cop and 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.880 it would say this, the suspect of pure nervous made 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.760 several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw a 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.880 shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers commonly use. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.880 The car smell like air freshener spray, which is used 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.200 to cover up the smell of drugs. And I spotted 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.679 them driving slowly up and down a block that I 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.360 know is frequented by drug dealers. Right, that's called good 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.600 police work in court. Right, that's called like a prosecutor's 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.240 dream copah um. And if you if you go back 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.840 and you notice all of that stuff, all of these 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.960 things are based on. So a block that he knows 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.679 to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five millimeter canisters. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:43.720 Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter article about that, Um, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:48.800 all of this stuff together um becomes what's called cumulative similarities. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.919 And supposedly a Florida Highway patrolman named Bob Vogel is 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.800 the first guy to put this down on paper. He 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.159 was very controversial, which is, you take all of these 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.200 different things and put them together, and you can form 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.000 a profile, and you can use that to pull somebody 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.400 over and then you know, eventually search their car if 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.520 you're a Florida Highway patrolment. Right. So, UM, you've got 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.560 you've got all of these. Uh. You have the terry 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.679 stops which are used for broken windows policing and just 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:25.159 for pulling people over, but they require an articulable suspicion, 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.199 but they can be based on where called cumulative similarities, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.640 which is a profile. Either like that your police department 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.800 is saying be on the lookout for people driving with 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.080 their spare tire in the backseat, um at this time 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.879 of night. So far, this has all been upheld by 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:49.080 the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a very very 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:54.320 fine line, um that is frequently crossed, and we will 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.360 talk about how that runs a foul of the Constitution 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:23.200 right after this, all right, Josh, before we took a break, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.720 you mentioned something called the Constitution, And there are a 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.080 couple of amendments that come into play when you're talking 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.600 about search and seizure, probable cause profiling, and they are 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.440 the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth reads in whole 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.560 the right of the people to be secure in their 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.359 persons is that JFK. I went into him Whitston Churchill. Sure, 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.720 it's both houses papers and effects against unreasonable searches and 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.159 seizures shall not be violated, and no warrant shall issue, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.879 but upon probable costs supported by oath or affirmation, and 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.160 particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.560 of things to be seized. Right, So there's some big 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.919 words in there, big big like money words like, uh, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:14.320 it's a protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, which means, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.840 as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some cops just 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.960 can't say I'm gonna push you up against the wall 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.560 and pay you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, Or 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.639 I'm gonna pull you over for no reason and I'm 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.480 gonna search your car on the side of the road 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.160 for no reason, um does not happen, right of course 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:39.600 not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.199 there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause, 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.600 like you have to have and if from a lot 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.080 of people say that that night Terry versus Ohio ruling 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.600 is just too broad in articulable suspicion, like what is 0:20:54.640 --> 0:21:00.199 that you know? Um, But even still there's there, So 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.439 there has to be some sort of probable cause. And 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.399 a lot of the times, as we'll see, it's just 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.080 from uh, some something out in plain side or something 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.080 like that. But there's a big struggle over what constitutes 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.120 probable cause. But the point is the Fourth Amendment says 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.240 you have to have probable cause or else it's an 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.439 unreasonable search, that's right. And uh, a police officer in 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.760 most cases has to go get a warrant for like 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.240 the search of a home or something. Um. And there's 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.719 a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these days of 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.159 course that like the judge may not even really review that. 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.600 It's just a formality, right or for anybody who's watched 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.600 it's enough Law and Order episodes, all you have to 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.160 do is go I smell pot. Do you smell pot? 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.520 Wink wink, and then kick the door in, Yeah, exactly, 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:46.840 because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.159 you smell pot exactly. Now there's the threat of perjury, 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.840 of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.560 least as far as like Brisco and Green are concerned, 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.399 they're hoping that they're gonna find so gang buster overwhelming 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.400 evidence that everybody's going to forget about the fake smell 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:08.639 of pot. Um. So, there was actually a case which 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:13.919 relates to probable calls called the US v. Sokolow that 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.560 made it all the way to the Scotus And um, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.320 did you read about that case? I did. It's um 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.119 it was a nine. Well that was when the ruling 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.560 was right. Yeah. So what happened was the d A 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:30.119 arrested a guy at the Honolulu airport found over a 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.200 thousand grams of cocaine in his carry on. It was 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.760 a key he had aw and he paid. Uh. They 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.080 the agents knew all this going into it. This is 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.680 why they arrested him. He paid bucks for round trip 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.720 tickets with a roll of twenty dollar bills. He traveled 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.360 under a name that did not match the name under 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:52.320 which his telephone was listed. Um, he was originally going 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:57.840 to Miami, and this yeah, because la Flag at the time, 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.680 he only stayed in Miami for two days, even though 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.040 a round trip flight from Honolulu takes twenty hours, so 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:05.960 a very quick trip and no others. He was almost 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.679 flying as long as he was there in Miami, he 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:13.159 met up with a man named Tony Montana. Apparently he 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.800 appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage, and 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:22.000 the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence, said 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:25.879 it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and overturned that, 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:28.240 and then eventually it went to the Supreme Court and 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.399 they said no, it's okay because they had what was 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:35.800 quote a totality of evidence. So here's the thing, though, 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.920 the thing that makes that so groundbreaking. And nowadays, I mean, 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.760 we were raised under so clow Right, it seems like 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.200 this is just the norm. But it was a ground 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.320 breaking case of the time because nothing none of that. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.639 It's not against the law to pay your plane ticket 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:52.720 with cash, it's not against the law to not check 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.080 your bags. At the time, it wasn't against the law 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.320