1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's your bro Josh, and for this week's 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our episode from 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: July of two thousand fifteen on the extraordinarily controversial practice 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: of profiling. You'll find out all the ins and outs 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: of profiling when it actually works, why it generally doesn't, 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: and why it's so just utterly offensive in general. Plus 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you'll also get to hear Chuck classic Chuck after he 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: got back from adopting his daughter, and he gets to 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: thank everybody who helped him along the way. And it's 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: just very nice and heartwarming, especially considering the episode it's 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: attached to. So at any rate, I hope you enjoy 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: it and take good care, Doe do do? What was that? 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: That is a heraldic announcement? Yes, before we get going, Uh, 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: I know people on social media already know this stuff, 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: but I wanted to announce on the podcast that Chuck 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: here has opted a baby. Girl. Chuck has a baby, 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: A beautiful baby. Yeah she is, she's cuteie. She she 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: was ten days late, so she came out and not 19 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: looking like one of those little alien creatures. No, she 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name is 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she was 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One of 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: the better days of the year July fift But isn't 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of all 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: the days. And I was literally I was just like, well, 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just, you know, 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: for giggles to see what you know, who shares her birthday. 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: About three quarters of the way down and saw your 29 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: face and I had forgotten it was your birthday because 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: I was just in another planet, and I like, immediately 31 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: I was like, Emily, you got to see this. You'll 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: never guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: really neat. Um. So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for 34 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the support. Stop stop chuck, Yes on behalf of every stuff. 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: You should know. A listener out there, yes, congratulate since 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: to you and Emily. Do you feel like you can 37 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: speak for them? Yes? Of course, Okay, because there might 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: be one guy out there he's like, I don't care, 39 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: he can stop listening right now. But I do have 40 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: some people to thank. Um. This happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 41 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: and Um. We stayed in this little area called East Village. 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: It was literally like a block in this loft and 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Airbnb loft and above pizza place and across street from 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: a bar. And I'll bet you have some people to think. Yeah, 45 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: these people like took us in as family. It was 46 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: like literally every day, you know, for ten days late, 47 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: we're out there two days early. So for like two 48 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: weeks they were like, what's going on? You know, where's 49 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: this baby? So I want to thank how just bend 50 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: which you would love to do? This cocktail bar right 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: up your alley. It sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah. 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: And not only do they make like fresh you know, 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: fresh ingredients, but they don't have like a thing of 54 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: cucumber sliced uff. They uncumber as needed nice and you 55 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: know the jalapeno you would have. They were doing it 56 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: right there. So Jamie and Nate and Nicole and Ian 57 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: the chef at I've just been it was the stuff 58 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: you should know. Man. Oh yeah, he came out and 59 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: he was like is it who I think it is? 60 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: How fortuitous? How fortuitous? And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: We stayed above this place and they were great. Did 62 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: the smell drive you nuts all the time? But we 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: ate a lot of people. Okay, Uh, so Pat there 64 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: and my boy Max, Max and I really hit it off. 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Were like genuine life pals down uh and he at 66 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: the end, I go to leave and I just give 67 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: him a letter saying thank you and here's my contact info. 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: And then like p s. By the way, I have 69 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: a podcast. He's an ornithologist, he has his master's, but 70 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: he's not doing that right now. You know, he's running 71 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: this pizza joint and just a really smart guys, Like 72 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: I could think you might like this podcast. I do. 73 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: He comes up and tells me afterwards, this is like 74 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: our parting words. He was like, dude, your chuck. He's like, really, 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: I had a weird like thing. He said, I knew 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: that you seemed for Millier, but I didn't want to 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: say anything, like even watched the TV show. Oh wow. 78 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: So Max was like, that's probably why I didn't want 79 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: to say anything. Yeah, he didn't want to bring it up. 80 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: So a huge thanks to those guys. And then um 81 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: our caseworker Jessica Um also a stuff you should know 82 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: fan that is amazing because at the end of our 83 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: first call like a month ago. She went, all right, 84 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: we've got business done. I have something I have to admit. 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: It's like, I'm a huge fan man. So it was weird. 86 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: It was like the stuff you should know, nation sort 87 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: of caring for me. Yeah, and all of the people 88 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: like you. You put a picture of Ruby Rose up, yeah, 89 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: and like broke the internet. It was it was people 90 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: love newborns. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn. Yeah. 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: But you know it could have been a puppy and 92 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: probably gotten don I don't think that was very sweet. Yeah, 93 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and 94 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are 95 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: listeners to they are awesome boys, and she really took 96 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: care of us. So I'm glad it worked out like 97 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: a man three weeks sin Tulsa. It was a weird 98 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: and stressful and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah, 99 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby, 100 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: and I was in the man zone right behind. I 101 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: am so proud of you guys. I'm so happy for 102 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: you guys. I also want to say Jerry is not 103 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well, 104 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: we could take the duck tapeall for today, maybe, Jerry, 105 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: how do you feel? Yes, she said, yeah, she agrees. 106 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: She just spelled out on the speaking spelled called them police. Anyway, 107 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: this is not going to become the New Baby show. Um, 108 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: she will probably disappear from uh your lives. But just 109 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: know that we're all doing great and thank you for 110 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: the support. All right, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulates, 111 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a 112 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 113 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, 114 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: which means it's time for listener mayo. Oh wait, wow 115 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: about that, I'm brain to start. That's why we leave 116 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: that in there. Do you want to ye? Or maybe 117 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: I should just read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, 118 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: it's a build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad libs. 119 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: Just fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. 120 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well? This 121 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: is a that's a different thing. This yeah, okay, I 122 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: think that has to do with um, like photography, no 123 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: think styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah, 124 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: you're fashionable and hip. Oh gotcha. Yeah, No, this is different. Yeah, 125 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: and this is a grab star article, which is the 126 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: mark of quality, as we all know it is. It's 127 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: refreshing to see and it is Um, we should just 128 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: say right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic. 129 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Um, there are many ways to look at it, 130 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's 131 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: a tough one. Yeah, so that's my caveat. It's divisive. 132 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: So um. One thing that grabs her immediately points out 133 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: is like, not all profiling is profiling, like you think 134 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: of Sure, we're going to talk about all the different ways, right, 135 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one, um, 136 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: is the standard all points bulletin or be on the lookout, Right, 137 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: that's the kind that no one has a problem with. 138 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: No one does, Yeah, because that you you know what 139 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: that is. That's uh, silver toyota to coma with spotted 140 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: today and white male in his mid forties with spiky 141 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: hair and uh sort of chubby with a big gross 142 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: gray black beard has committed a crime and he's wearing 143 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I see you're describing 144 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: yourself profiler, but you put in their white male. And 145 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: the reason that's what I am. The reason why people 146 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: don't have a problem with this is twofold one. A 147 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay, I committed a crime. 148 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: So the police work is finding a perpetrator that has 149 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: already committed a crime. And secondly, that profile is based 150 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person. That's right, So 151 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: that profile is being used to track down a specific person. 152 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with anybody else. Who's white, has 153 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: nothing to do with anybody else, who drives a silver Tacoma, 154 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with any of that jazz. It's 155 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: just this guy is suspected of having committed this crime 156 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: and he looks like this. Yeah you hear. You see 157 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: it on the news every night. Yes, you know that's 158 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: not just cops that use this. The news will say 159 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: the suspect is, uh, you know, wearing a handsome, checkered Oxford, 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth exactly, so 161 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: they're describing you, Oh you think my teeth are nice? 162 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight. 163 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming 164 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: from a guy who just found out he's about to 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: have to lose his front tooth all over again, start over. Yeah, man, 166 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out 167 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: there that are laughing Aaron Cooper that toothless Chuck is 168 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: coming back in the house for it. It's really just him. Yeah, 169 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh 170 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know, 171 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling 172 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an 173 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: implant and it's for life. Yeah, especially when they sell 174 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: you a lifetime implant. Yeah, exactly. Alright. So, uh, like 175 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: you said, including descriptions and skin color is not controversial 176 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the FEDS to 177 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the local police are okay with that. Yeah, they're all 178 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: in on it. And and not just the police, like 179 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure, 180 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling, 181 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: and this is when you don't have a lot of 182 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're 183 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: trying to fill in the blanks and make some good 184 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh, 185 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: some good guesses based on like the crime scene or 186 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime 187 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out 188 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: who solved it, and you're taking committed it. You're trying 189 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: to figure out who's gonna solve it alright, alright, which 190 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: you figure out the same moment when as you do 191 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: when you figure out who committed it. It's interesting mind bending. 192 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: Right Twice you've jumped to the end of something. It's 193 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: so weird. I don't know what that means. I think 194 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: you know what it means. Uh. Sometimes they are vague, 195 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: but wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay, I didn't 196 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: mess it up that bad. Let me go back and finish. Um. 197 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: The point is it's drawn from available evidence, Yeah, clues, 198 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: clues that you're bringing together to try to draw up 199 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: an idea of who did this, right exactly, Okay, So 200 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: sometimes it can be vague, but if you watch TV 201 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: and movies, um, it is probably not how it really 202 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: goes down, but it's super specific when you see it 203 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: in fiction, you know, like I think this, uh as 204 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: a man who was beaten as a child, and he 205 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: probably lives alone or Sherlock Holmes was really good at 206 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's a good point. Love Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, 207 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: that's good stuff. Uh did you know he was a 208 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: morphine and cocaine addict? Really? Yeah? Well I guess you 209 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: need both in like the original stories? Really yeah? Oh 210 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: like in the books. Wow, not the real guy right, 211 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just 212 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the 213 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: Originals and he like does he shoots morphing in it? 214 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing. 215 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah he's straight edge. No, he's not straight edge, but 216 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he 217 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: didn't care. He was like, Watson, wash my toes. So 218 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: I can between them all right, Moving on to predictive profiling, Well, yeah, 219 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: this is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah, 220 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is 221 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's 222 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much 223 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: a guessing game as anything else. Um, But it's not 224 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're 225 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime, 226 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: right not not not civil sorry issue, big time, big time. Um. 227 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: Police officers do great work. Ideally, they're not just reacting 228 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: to committed crimes, but they are um driving around the 229 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that might be about 230 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: to commit a crime, to prevent crime, to prevent a crime, 231 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: which is tough to do. You know, it's right place, 232 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: right time in most cases. And you use the word 233 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: ideally right ideally yes. Um. So even when this happens, 234 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: this Supreme Court has roundly um sided with police officers 235 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: um as profiling for justification. So it's legally speaking, okay, 236 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: it's on the books. It's on the books. So so 237 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: give an example of the kind of profiling that's okay 238 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: to be used. Um. The one of the article is great. Um. 239 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: Let's say you're in uh, South Florida, and you're you're 240 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: traveling up and you're in a it's four a m. 241 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: And you're in a rented black suv with tinted windows, 242 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: and you have the spare tire in the back seat removed. Um, 243 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's it's removed from the trunk area. It's 244 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: in the backseat, just sitting in the back seat. Might 245 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: be might be a drug trafficker, right, And the cop 246 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: is basing this on something like, um, a profile, Yeah, 247 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: but a profile based on previous experiences with other drug 248 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: dealers in the same area. Because that's a really big 249 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: one right there. Like um. One of the things for 250 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: using profiles successfully is it has it's it has it 251 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: has to be over a certain period of time and 252 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: associated with a certain place. So you use Miami and 253 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: say Miami, right, if you saw that person and you 254 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: would say, well, this is probably a cocaine trafficker based 255 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: on all the other dealings with cocaine traffickers who who 256 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: used the same transportation. M Yeah, And we should point 257 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: out the tires removed, because you can then hide the 258 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: drugs where their spare tire went, and then that's why 259 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: the tires in the back seat. Yes, so these are 260 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: red flags. But if you're like in um Wyoming in 261 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, and you read an article about how 262 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: that held true in Miami. That is not necessarily a 263 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: justifiable transference of profiling because it exists in a different time, 264 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: in a different place. That's right. So, like you said, 265 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: this can be a this can be high level policy, UM, 266 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: it can be unofficial policy. It can be just merely 267 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: experienced as a police officer. That's something you've encountered from 268 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: time to time and basically to determine if this profile 269 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: justifies a search warrantless search that is, in other words, 270 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: you haven't gone to the judge and as applied for 271 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: a warrant and had them review it and all that 272 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: stuff or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. Um. 273 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: It's got a stand up in court, right, and so 274 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: you gotta be careful as a cop you do. Um, 275 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: you have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which 276 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: was established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling 277 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: Terry versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this 278 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: is actually from a Matt ti abi Um article. It's 279 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: really really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. 280 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: It was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago. 281 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about 282 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: this terry case led to what are called terry stops, 283 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can 284 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: put into words meaning it's not just a hunch, um, 285 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: that somebody is is either just committed a crime or 286 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause, 287 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: and it's browns first search. Yeah, And here's a had 288 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: a great example here, like let's say the cop and 289 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: it would say this, the suspect of pure nervous made 290 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw a 291 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers commonly use. 292 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: The car smell like air freshener spray, which is used 293 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: to cover up the smell of drugs. And I spotted 294 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: them driving slowly up and down a block that I 295 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: know is frequented by drug dealers. Right, that's called good 296 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: police work in court. Right, that's called like a prosecutor's 297 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: dream copah um. And if you if you go back 298 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: and you notice all of that stuff, all of these 299 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: things are based on. So a block that he knows 300 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five millimeter canisters. 301 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter article about that, Um, 302 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: all of this stuff together um becomes what's called cumulative similarities. 303 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: And supposedly a Florida Highway patrolman named Bob Vogel is 304 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: the first guy to put this down on paper. He 305 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: was very controversial, which is, you take all of these 306 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: different things and put them together, and you can form 307 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: a profile, and you can use that to pull somebody 308 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: over and then you know, eventually search their car if 309 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: you're a Florida Highway patrolment. Right. So, UM, you've got 310 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: you've got all of these. Uh. You have the terry 311 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: stops which are used for broken windows policing and just 312 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: for pulling people over, but they require an articulable suspicion, 313 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: but they can be based on where called cumulative similarities, 314 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: which is a profile. Either like that your police department 315 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: is saying be on the lookout for people driving with 316 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: their spare tire in the backseat, um at this time 317 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: of night. So far, this has all been upheld by 318 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a very very 319 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: fine line, um that is frequently crossed, and we will 320 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: talk about how that runs a foul of the Constitution 321 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: right after this, all right, Josh, before we took a break, 322 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: you mentioned something called the Constitution, And there are a 323 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: couple of amendments that come into play when you're talking 324 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: about search and seizure, probable cause profiling, and they are 325 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth reads in whole 326 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: the right of the people to be secure in their 327 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: persons is that JFK. I went into him Whitston Churchill. Sure, 328 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: it's both houses papers and effects against unreasonable searches and 329 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: seizures shall not be violated, and no warrant shall issue, 330 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: but upon probable costs supported by oath or affirmation, and 331 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons 332 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: of things to be seized. Right, So there's some big 333 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: words in there, big big like money words like, uh, 334 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: it's a protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, which means, 335 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some cops just 336 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: can't say I'm gonna push you up against the wall 337 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: and pay you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, Or 338 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull you over for no reason and I'm 339 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna search your car on the side of the road 340 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: for no reason, um does not happen, right of course 341 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh, 342 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause, 343 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: like you have to have and if from a lot 344 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: of people say that that night Terry versus Ohio ruling 345 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: is just too broad in articulable suspicion, like what is 346 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: that you know? Um, But even still there's there, So 347 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of probable cause. And 348 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: a lot of the times, as we'll see, it's just 349 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: from uh, some something out in plain side or something 350 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: like that. But there's a big struggle over what constitutes 351 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: probable cause. But the point is the Fourth Amendment says 352 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: you have to have probable cause or else it's an 353 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: unreasonable search, that's right. And uh, a police officer in 354 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: most cases has to go get a warrant for like 355 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: the search of a home or something. Um. And there's 356 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these days of 357 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: course that like the judge may not even really review that. 358 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: It's just a formality, right or for anybody who's watched 359 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: it's enough Law and Order episodes, all you have to 360 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: do is go I smell pot. Do you smell pot? 361 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: Wink wink, and then kick the door in, Yeah, exactly, 362 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think 363 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: you smell pot exactly. Now there's the threat of perjury, 364 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at 365 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: least as far as like Brisco and Green are concerned, 366 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: they're hoping that they're gonna find so gang buster overwhelming 367 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: evidence that everybody's going to forget about the fake smell 368 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: of pot. Um. So, there was actually a case which 369 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: relates to probable calls called the US v. Sokolow that 370 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: made it all the way to the Scotus And um, 371 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: did you read about that case? I did. It's um 372 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: it was a nine. Well that was when the ruling 373 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: was right. Yeah. So what happened was the d A 374 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: arrested a guy at the Honolulu airport found over a 375 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: thousand grams of cocaine in his carry on. It was 376 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: a key he had aw and he paid. Uh. They 377 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: the agents knew all this going into it. This is 378 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: why they arrested him. He paid bucks for round trip 379 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: tickets with a roll of twenty dollar bills. He traveled 380 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: under a name that did not match the name under 381 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: which his telephone was listed. Um, he was originally going 382 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: to Miami, and this yeah, because la Flag at the time, 383 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: he only stayed in Miami for two days, even though 384 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: a round trip flight from Honolulu takes twenty hours, so 385 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: a very quick trip and no others. He was almost 386 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: flying as long as he was there in Miami, he 387 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: met up with a man named Tony Montana. Apparently he 388 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage, and 389 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence, said 390 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and overturned that, 391 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: and then eventually it went to the Supreme Court and 392 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: they said no, it's okay because they had what was 393 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: quote a totality of evidence. So here's the thing, though, 394 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: the thing that makes that so groundbreaking. And nowadays, I mean, 395 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: we were raised under so clow Right, it seems like 396 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: this is just the norm. But it was a ground 397 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: breaking case of the time because nothing none of that. 398 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: It's not against the law to pay your plane ticket 399 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: with cash, it's not against the law to not check 400 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: your bags. At the time, it wasn't against the law 401 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: to travel under an assumed name. Yeah, and I don't 402 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: think at the time it was against a law to 403 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: go to Miami just for two right, exactly, none of 404 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: this is against the law. And so if you if 405 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: if you just followed the strict interpretation the law up 406 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: to that point there was they couldn't bust this guy. 407 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: Even though when they busted him they found a kilo 408 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: of coke, like they knew they would in his bag. Um, 409 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme Court said you 410 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: know what, we we think that when you put all 411 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: that stuff together, there is enough there. Now what constitutes 412 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence? Is that 413 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: one thing? Um? You know, how much does it take 414 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: to profile? But what they were saying in so colo was, yes, 415 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: the the stuff that you've seen from other proven criminals 416 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: applied to somebody else who you don't yet fully know 417 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: as a criminal is enough for you to bust them 418 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: and see if you're right. Yeah, again, it's just like 419 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: kind of groundbreaking. He didn't go straight to jail. They 420 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: looked in his bag, yes, but it's do you have 421 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: the right to look in the bag? Is what it 422 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: comes down. And they were saying that there. The Supreme 423 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: Court's interpretation is this stands up to the Fourth Amendment. Yeah, 424 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: and I met the guy went to Miami for two days. 425 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: Kiss your civil rights goodbye. Uh So with the fourteenth Amendment, UM, 426 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: it states in part that no State shall make or 427 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities 428 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: of citizens of the US. Uh I think everybody wants 429 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: the Kennedy voice against. Uh. I think any time you 430 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: read amendments from the Bill of Rights, you have to 431 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: do it like that. Nah shall any state deprive any 432 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, 433 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction equal protection 434 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: of the laws. So this one applies. You might say, well, 435 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: we've got the Fourth we don't need the fourteenth. Fourteen 436 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: says look, man, you can't just bust somebody without this again, 437 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: due process of law. And we have a due process 438 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: of law. And what the Supreme Court did with cases 439 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: like so below and with cases like Terry versus Ohio UM, 440 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: is they said profiling is part of the due process 441 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: of law. That's right. So one thing that they have 442 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: gone back to again and again and again and again 443 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: is that if race is factored in and almost any circumstances. 444 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: There are circumstances that is where racial profiling is allowed 445 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: in police work. But for the most part, if you're 446 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: basing your suspicions of criminal wrongdoing on race largely or 447 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: in part, then that is not That runs a foul 448 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: of the fourth and the fourteenth Amendments, and you're not 449 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: allowed to do that. Yeah. The grabs Her points out 450 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: that cops, unless you are have an a p b 451 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: out on a Hispanic mail or a black male, then 452 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be color blind as a cop, exactly, 453 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: all right, You're supposed to be supposed to So you know, um, 454 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: the Eric Garner case, the Michael Brown case, UM, all 455 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: of these cases where you know, black mails were basically 456 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: stopped from either doing a petty offense or just stop 457 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: based on suspicion because they were black in their neighborhood. UM. 458 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: It prompted the executive branch to release a new set 459 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: of guidance, like an updated set of guidelines for racial profiling, 460 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: and they were they basically spelled out examples. Um. I 461 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: posted to it on the podcast page for this episode, 462 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: but they spelled out examples for when that when it's appropriate, 463 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: And they said, if it's an all points bulletin for 464 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: any police yes, Um, if you're traffic or if you're 465 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: patrolling and looking for criminals and you're basing it on race, 466 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: absolutely not allowed. But they said they gave an example 467 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: where like, um, if, for example, you are looking for 468 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: somebody who carried out a hit on a gang leader, 469 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: and you know there's this rival gang and this right 470 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: of old gang is probably the ones who carried out 471 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: this hit, and every member of this rival gang is Hispanic, 472 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: that you could use that as part of the profile 473 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: and searching for your suspect. That it just makes sense 474 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: in that case, right, Not because you don't look for 475 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: the little old white lady, right exactly. Yeah, because it's 476 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: that specific. But you wouldn't cast a dragnet over all Hispanics. 477 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: It would be Hispanic men related to this gang. You 478 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. I think the lesson here is 479 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: get the little old white lady to do the hit. 480 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: It's been done before, and you're golden. It has been 481 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: done before, which is one of the one of the 482 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: problems with racial profiling is it's distracting. Yeah, you know, 483 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: we'll get to that. But that's definitely true. Um, and 484 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: you know when you watch cops, it's not always like 485 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: sometimes that I will see on the TV show. They 486 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: will pull over. They'll stop a white kid, like suburban 487 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: white kid that's in a bad neighborhood, because they'll be like, well, 488 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: he's he doesn't below here. Yeah, he's probably buying drugs 489 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: because this is a street where people buy drugs. There's 490 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: a crack house down there. And this guy is from 491 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: the county, uh, you know, the white suburban county out 492 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: in the suburbs. Let's pull him over. That's racial profile. 493 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: That's the same same thing but different. Well it's the 494 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: same thing, yeah, but you know what I mean. Um, 495 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk about probable cause analysis. This 496 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: is good. There's, um, during a traffic stop, there's there's 497 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: several things a cop can do and each one requires 498 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: different kinds of cause in order for it to be legal. Um. Yeah, Again, 499 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: they aren't supposed to just pull you over for no reason. 500 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: They're not supposed to. You're supposed to fit some sort 501 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: of either you broke a traffic law or you fit 502 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: a profile that that has been agreed upon. Is okay, Yeah, 503 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: but a cop to pull over for. And again we're 504 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: not knocking police officers hard work, and mostly they do 505 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: rate work. But a cop can pull someone over for 506 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: anything and say, like, when you made that turn, you 507 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: swung a little too wide, or you hit that yellow line, 508 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: and um, so I'm suspicious that you're drunk, like you know. 509 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: Like that, you can almost invent a reason to pull 510 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: someone over and under any circumstances. So let's just start 511 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: with that. When you pull over a car, UM, Supposedly, 512 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: to pull someone over, legally, you need to have witnessed 513 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: a violation UM. Or you can run the plates and 514 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: see if their cars stolen or if there's a warrant 515 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: out for the owner. That's a big thing you see 516 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: on cops all the time. UM. And the cop can 517 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: make a stop as long as they can describe specific 518 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: factors that fit the profile. Right car, car full of 519 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: black kids. Not okay to just pull that car over, 520 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: not for that reason. But if they say, like I 521 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: saw um smoke coming out the windows. Um, they were 522 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: driving around aradically and it smelled like pot smoke from 523 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: the road, then that is a reason Number two. When 524 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: you go to a question the suspect, that's moving things 525 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: up a notch. Uh, you don't have to get a 526 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: ticket when you get pulled over. You might just get 527 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: questioned if you seem suspicious. Um, and they can you know, 528 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: they'll shine that light in the car and they'll look 529 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: at everything that they can see without actually searching the car. Yeah, 530 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: and that's well within their right what's called plane view exactly. 531 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: So if you have like a bag of pots sitting 532 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: out on the front seat with you and the cops 533 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: sees it, that just opened your entire car and your 534 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: person up to a search. Yes, and you that means 535 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: you are super high because now now there's probable cause. 536 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: But if you have long hair and you have an 537 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: open half gallon of ice cream next to you, still 538 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: not enough. My race is suspicions, but that still should 539 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: not be enough to um give them probable cause to 540 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: search your car. Well, I got profiled in Texas. Me 541 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: and my best friend Brett many years ago I to college, 542 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: did a big out west trip for two months and 543 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: the cops said he didn't put He said he pulled 544 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: us over because I didn't have my seat belt on. Um, 545 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: why he really pulled us over? Us because we were 546 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: too scruffy looking guys with tattoos and beards in a 547 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Volkswagen van. Um, and he searched the van. He asked 548 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: if he could, and we said he could, And he 549 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: searched the van for like an hour on the side 550 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: of the road. Long story short, chucked in five years, 551 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: five hard ones. No, we didn't get caught with anything, 552 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: and we got away. And he basically was mad at 553 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: us that he wasted his time, and the last thing 554 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: he said was a get out of Texas. So and 555 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: I said, I'm trying to sir. But the point is 556 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: that that cop asked you if he could search your car, 557 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: right he did, and that if you give consent, then 558 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: you were waving your Fourth Amendment rights. But you don't 559 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: have to give consent. Not many people know this. And 560 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: there's some states that make the cop tell you you 561 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: are allowed to refuse the search of your car. Um. 562 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: Not all states do. I've never heard it either. Um. Instead, 563 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: the cop just says, can I search your car in 564 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: the most intimidating voice possible, And most people will just 565 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: fold like a house of cards, um, because they're scared 566 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: of the cop or whatever. Even if they do have 567 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: something in there, they're not going to be like, Nope, 568 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: you're not allowed to search the car. So the point 569 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: where the cop asks if he can search the car 570 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: is usually in the absence of something that nothing in 571 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: plain sight, but also that cops suspicious suspicions are raised. 572 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: He just can't quite prove it. So I'll ask you 573 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: if you can search your car. If you say no, 574 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: the cop can say, well, I'm I'm going to detain 575 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: you temporarily. Right Basically, I can go, I will wait 576 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: it out, I can get a warrant. I'm gonna search 577 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: that car, right, Okay. If he wants to get a warrant, 578 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: that's different. Like what he's doing now is trying to 579 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: do everything he can to search your car without having 580 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: to go to the trouble of getting a warrant without 581 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: probable cause like seeing a bag of pot in the 582 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: front seat. Right time was that they could detain you 583 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: for up to like ninety minutes while they called the 584 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: canine unit out, And the canine unit has been shown 585 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: to if the canine unit sniffs around your car, that's 586 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: not an unreasonable search. And if the canine smells something 587 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: or indicates that there are drugs present, then that does 588 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: provide probable cause for a full search under the Fourth Amendment. 589 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: Right they change that. Yeah. Um. In April this past April, 590 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court had decision that said, no, you really 591 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: can't make people wait around while the drug dog comes out. 592 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: They're like, we're not opposed to that, but the point 593 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: of a traffic stop is to promote and encourage traffic safety, 594 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: not to cast a drug drag net for drug couriers. Um. 595 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: And you you cannot detain people without a reasonable suspicion 596 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: to wait for the drug dog to come out. If 597 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: they tell you you can't, they you're not allowed to 598 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: search their car. That's good. I wonder if it had 599 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: anything to do with um. If you look up online, 600 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: there are ways that cops can make a drug dog signal, 601 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: basically by how they're handling the dog, and there's a 602 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: lot of suspicion, and they'll play him side by side, 603 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: like you see this cops doing it right, And if 604 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: you see this cop, watch this little thing he does. 605 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: Then the dog barks. And basically there was a lot 606 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: of speculation that bad cops would use the well not that, 607 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, essentially making the dog signal a false alert 608 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: just to give them reason. Well, the dog barked, So 609 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: now I can I can search your car or and 610 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: maybe it all started because I meant to bring this 611 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: up a second ago. Suspicion can be they seem nervous, right, 612 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: Like everyone's nervous when a cop pulls them over, even 613 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: if you haven't done anything. It's just nerve wracking. It's 614 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: like white coat blood pressure. Yeah. I mean, like a 615 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: lot of people's blood pressure is high at the doctor 616 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: because they're nervous about, you know, being at the doctor. 617 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: There's someone's standing at my window with a gun, right 618 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: Like it's nerve wracking. Yeah. So the Supreme Court said, no, 619 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: you guys, you have to have a reasonable suspicion to 620 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: detain somebody on the side of the road that they've 621 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: committed another crime. It can't just be I'm pulling you over. 622 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: You have to wait for ninety minutes while the drug 623 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: dog comes out so I can bust you or try 624 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: to bust you or whatever. That was. That was a 625 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: big deal that they came up with that. Yeah, we 626 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: didn't in Texas. We didn't have the drug dog come out, 627 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: but we were I felt like we were on the 628 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: side of the road for an hour while he dug 629 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: through that entire van um just you could tell he 630 00:36:34,520 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: was he really wanted to find something. Yeah, all right, 631 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: let's open the canib worms, my friend. Racial profiling. It's 632 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: a big, big deal in this country. It's a problem, 633 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: and um let's talk about it. Okay, that's good. Uh. 634 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: So that is basically it's a form of predicted profiling, 635 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: uh where one of, if not the only factor, is 636 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: skin color. Right that like, um oh, let's say that, um, 637 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: Mexican people are way more um prone to sell meth. 638 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: So let's go hang out at that Hispanic neighborhood. Right, 639 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: but there's a couple of things wrong with that, um, 640 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: and that is racial profiling. Some people actually defend it, saying, well, 641 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: if you look at prison statistics, Hispanics are far more 642 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: likely to be imprisoned for drug crimes than say, white 643 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: p bowl, so that makes sense, right right, Okay. The 644 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: other saying right right, I'm playing along here. The other 645 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: side of the coin is that you can use those 646 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: same statistics to point to the idea that Hispanics and 647 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: Blacks are disproportionately targeted for drug busts than other people. Right, 648 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: and so the same this is an ed points out 649 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: This is one of the problems with this debate is 650 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: both sides used the same statistics differently to prove their point. Yeah. 651 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: Another thing he points out is that people that say 652 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: some people will say that it is institutionalized racism and 653 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: its harassment of minority Yeah, straight up. People who defend 654 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: against it say, cops harass criminals, and if those criminals 655 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: happen to be minorities, t s. That's not our fault. 656 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's just the reality of the world 657 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: we live in. Even further, there's people who say, yes, 658 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: racial profiling is the thing, and it's an effective tool 659 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: of law enforcements. Sorry, welcome the reality. Um. Those people 660 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: usually have their arguments demolished pretty quickly, including by professionals. 661 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: I read this UM this interview or well an article 662 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: about the former chief chief of police of Palo Alto 663 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: around San Francisco area, and UM, he also grew up 664 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: as an Oakland cop, and he was talking about that 665 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of racial profiling that you were where they would 666 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: just sit out and like, um, high crime neighborhoods and 667 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: pull over anybody white, and they were doing like that 668 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: for the same reasons. And he was saying it almost 669 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: never worked. He said that, Um, they also would have 670 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: like long dragnets on stretches of highway and they would 671 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: target Hispanic people in like low riders and he said 672 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: almost never worked. And he said that it's ineffective. Right, 673 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: it's also lazy policing, because he said, the better alternative 674 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: is to forget who who's what color, but just watch 675 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: for somebody be leaning in a car that's just pulled 676 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: over under the curb, or somebody making furtive moment movements. Right, 677 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: look for behavior that is actually linked to crime. Not 678 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: there's a white person in a black high crime neighborhood, 679 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: so therefore their their um, they're buying drugs, or even 680 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,479 Speaker 1: even worse than that, there's a black person who lives 681 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: in a high crime neighborhood, they must be a drug dealer. 682 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: Let me go stop and frisk them. Um, that that 683 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,839 Speaker 1: is just lazy policing. It's it's shorthand policing. Whereas if 684 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: you look for actual criminal behaviors you're going to have 685 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: you're going to be far more successful in busting the 686 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: bad guys. But even worse than it being like lazy 687 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: policing and ineffective in a lot of ways, this guy 688 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: pointed out, like, and I've seen this in many different places. 689 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: If you want to encourage mistrust and animosity toward the police, 690 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: scoop up every member in the community and take him 691 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: to jail, just on the off chance that you might 692 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: find something that sticks. If you want to set a 693 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: town off or any population off, do that for a 694 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: few years and see what happens. And that's what we've 695 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: been seeing time and time again. It's systematic. Yes, it's 696 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: systematic targeting and then a systematic reaction to uh. And 697 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: I mentioned cops a lot. If you're out there saying, well, yeah, 698 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: but on cops every time they pull over, that's a 699 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: shady black guy in the neighborhood he has something on 700 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: him and gets arrested. Or that white kid in the 701 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: bad neighborhood, he's there to buy drugs. It's a TV 702 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: show that's edited. Right. They don't show you the twenty 703 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: five stops where there is no crime because it would 704 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: not be a fun TV show. Exactly all right. So 705 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: I think people use that as like dummies use that 706 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: as proof sometimes, like watch cops Man every single time, right, 707 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: Like yeah, exactly right, Like all all Matthe users are 708 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: scrawny and white. So if you see a scrawny white guy, 709 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: matthe User, that's right, or marathon runner right, you know. 710 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: Uh So, obviously there can be h rogue cops, racist 711 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: cops that are doing their thing on a on a 712 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: singular level or with their partner. But it becomes a 713 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: real real problem. That's a problem. It becomes a super 714 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: real problem when it is part of the system. Uh 715 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: In which was the case with the New Jersey State 716 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: troopers in the late nineties. They did a ten year 717 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,720 Speaker 1: study and found out that eighty percent of all traffic 718 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: stops were minorities over a ten year period, and they 719 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: found that there was a quote macho elitist culture within 720 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: the state trooper ranks end quote and um. Basically, even 721 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: though they officially said racial profiling isn't right, there was 722 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 1: a system in place where veterans would really coach and 723 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: teach the younger cops like this is how we're doing it, 724 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 1: and they were basically outed. Um. The authorities assigned federal 725 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,879 Speaker 1: monitors to those troopers, and evidently by two thousand six 726 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: they had um a report suggested they had eliminated that 727 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: profiling completely. Yeah, which is good if that's the case, 728 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm sure it is. New Jersey State 729 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: troopers are intimidating. You ever seen those guys, and they're 730 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: the ones that look like the military uniforms, which is 731 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: a whole other issue altogether. Well, I mean not like 732 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,919 Speaker 1: M sixteen, but they talk about like like the dress blues, yeah, 733 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,320 Speaker 1: boots and all that. Um. It turns out, Chuck, twenty 734 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: two states have lawns that band racial profiling of motorists, 735 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: which is great until you think that that also means 736 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: that states don't. It's kind of weird if you ask me. 737 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: Um and uh. I found a study also from Illinois 738 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: that found that in Illinois, black and Hispanic drivers were 739 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: two times likelier to be stopped and searched, but white 740 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: drivers were two times likelier to have contraband on them. 741 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 1: That weird. Not only weird, it's it's startling. How it's 742 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: it's not effective, Like there it's not leading to stopping crime, yeah, 743 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: which is sort of the point. Well. And then another 744 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: very controversial a bout of racial profiling that this country 745 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: went through came after September eleven, and in the aftermath 746 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,919 Speaker 1: of that, you would remember every every month or two 747 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: you'd hear about someone who sometimes seeks who aren't even 748 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: Arab would get kicked off of like a plane or 749 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: something like that because they made the pilot nervous just 750 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: being there. Yeah, or T s A would would like 751 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: pat down. Um. Just proportionately more Arab people than white people. Um. 752 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: And now supposedly they based it on your behavior rather 753 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: than your race, so they're not racial profiling any longer, supposedly, 754 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: and it is. I have to say, I haven't heard 755 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 1: of one of those cases in a while, but it 756 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: seemed like for a while we're hearing about it all 757 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, I think there was a heightened sense 758 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: of everything back then. Of course right after. But so 759 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 1: this guy who used to manage the Ben Gurion Airport 760 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: in um Israel, Rafael Ron, he pointed out that that 761 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: was the exact opposite of what you want to do. Yeah. 762 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: He said, the worst tech in the history of this 763 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: airport was carried out by Japanese in the early seventies. 764 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,439 Speaker 1: And he said, if we're focusing on an ethnic group, 765 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: then we're potentially missing someone that's about to do something bad, right, 766 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: which is exactly what happened in two at that airport. 767 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 1: Three members of the Japanese Red Army walked in with 768 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: machine guns and violin cases and just opened them up 769 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: and started opening fire on the crowd and killed I think, 770 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: um twenty six people. And they were hired by the PLO. 771 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: PLO knew that they could never walk into the the 772 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: Israeli airport, but the Japanese people would unnoticed. And so 773 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: this guy is saying the same thing like, if you're 774 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: really on the lookout for your enemy, like again, watch 775 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: for behavior, like do actual police work. Don't just use 776 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,799 Speaker 1: this lazy shorthand stuff because it's gonna it's going to 777 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,720 Speaker 1: take off this entire population and it's going to cause 778 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: in you to miss the real crime. Well, yeah, you've 779 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: got like it sounds like a movie. Them the cops 780 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: are at the airport and they detained this, uh, this 781 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: Arab guy who's like late for a business meeting. And 782 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: then in the in the same shot, the uh, the 783 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: white dude who was a Timothy McVeigh just walks right 784 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,360 Speaker 1: behind him with the with the bomb on his body. 785 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: You realize you just described the subplot to Airplane Too, 786 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: did I? Yeah, remember Sonny Bono had the bomb. A 787 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 1: little mild mannered weasily dude. Yeah, that's right, And I 788 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: think he walks through while they're jacking up some like 789 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: I think plo dudes. Maybe that was subconscious. Wow, so 790 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,959 Speaker 1: that's a profiling tip of the iceberg. I would call that. Oh, sure, 791 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: there's we could do a series of shows on this. 792 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure. Uh. And if you want to know more 793 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: about profiling in the meantime, uh, type that word in 794 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,839 Speaker 1: the search bar of your favorite search engine, and I'm 795 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: sure we'll bring up all manner of terrible stuff. You 796 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: can also type it in the search bar at how 797 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com and it will bring up this 798 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: article by the Crabs. Or And since I said grabs there, 799 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,359 Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna call this 800 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: wee f us, which is short for a water enema 801 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 1: from a water slide or from a slide. And this 802 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: is from a Tiffany last name withheld. She says uh. 803 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: As a kid, I remember being a chubby eleven year 804 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 1: old girl excited for her first trip to Disney World 805 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,839 Speaker 1: in the water park then known as Typhoon. Lagoon had 806 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: a brand new Neon green with black polka up bathing suit. 807 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: It was all excited and Uh, to go down the Cowabunga, 808 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: a two fourteen foot tall water slide on a steep 809 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: sixty degree angle. They tell you to keep your ankles crossed, 810 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: but it's a little chubby, eleven year old girl. My 811 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 1: brain comprehended, but my little legs did not have the 812 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: strength for all two d and fourteen feet Thank you 813 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: see where this is headed. After plumbing the bottom, immediately 814 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: knew something was not right. I clinched my thighs as 815 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: tightly as I could, pulling out the massive water slide wedgie. 816 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: Not two steps from exiting the slide, though, a different 817 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: type of waterfall began to trickle down my legs. No 818 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: matter how tightly I clinched, I couldn't stop it. I 819 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,240 Speaker 1: waddled up to a gorgeous Australian teenager employee and explain, 820 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: I need a rest room right away. Uh. With a 821 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 1: smug smile, he pointed all the way to the other 822 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,440 Speaker 1: side of the lagoon, which was a long walk. Just 823 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 1: as I entered the bathroom, with all the force of 824 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: the water that had entered my body, it exited and 825 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: I single handedly shut down a small portion of Disney 826 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: that day. As embarrassing as this was. I was more 827 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 1: upset that my new bathing suit was ruined. My parents 828 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: were furious because they had to show out fifty dollars 829 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: for a new one Toronto. I hope I didn't gross 830 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: you out too bad. I think of it as a 831 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: cautionary lesson for your listeners. Thanks for all your hard work. UM, 832 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: I hope to see you guys sometime in Detroit and October. 833 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 1: Tiffany last name with held. We're just gonna call you 834 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: Tiffany poopy pants. We're coming to Detroit in October. Yes, 835 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: ostensibly ostensibly, and also we want to say Detroit in 836 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: advance of us coming. We're sorry for all of the 837 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: jokes we made about you, though. It'll all come home 838 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: to roost. See you in October. If you want to 839 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: tell us a gross story that happened when you were 840 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,879 Speaker 1: a kid, like yeah, don't, just tell us something else 841 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: and tweet to us at s Y s K podcast, 842 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: Join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know, 843 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: Send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff 844 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,360 Speaker 1: Works dot com, and join us our at home on 845 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,239 Speaker 1: the web Stuff you Should Know dot com. Stuff you 846 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For 847 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,839 Speaker 1: more podcasts, my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 848 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.