WEBVTT - Sylvia Rivera

0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You missed in History Class from how

0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm Tracy the Wilson. So today's subject, which is transgender

0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.760
<v Speaker 1>activist Sylvia Rivera is often compared to Rosa Parks, like

0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I would say seventy percent of the articles, but I

0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:31.000
<v Speaker 1>read researching this episode compared her to Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks,

0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.200
<v Speaker 1>as you probably know, became famous in part for refusing

0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:37.919
<v Speaker 1>to give up her bus seat on a segregated bus,

0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and Sylvia Rivera became famous in part for purportedly throwing

0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.640
<v Speaker 1>the first bottle at a police officer during the Stonewall Riots.

0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.239
<v Speaker 1>But really, Rosa Parks and Sylvia Rivera almost could not

0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.480
<v Speaker 1>be more different from each other. Rosa Parks's case was

0:00:55.680 --> 0:01:01.360
<v Speaker 1>chosen specifically to try to overturn bus segregation Montgomery, Alabama,

0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:05.840
<v Speaker 1>precisely because she seemed really polite. She was married, she

0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:07.920
<v Speaker 1>was soft spoken, she went to church, and she had

0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.800
<v Speaker 1>no criminal records, so basically there was nothing in her

0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.160
<v Speaker 1>background that might turn white people off to the idea

0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.320
<v Speaker 1>that she deserved the same basic civil rights that they did.

0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia Rivera, on the other hand, has a lot more

0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.800
<v Speaker 1>in common with Claudett Colvin, who was also arrested for

0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.640
<v Speaker 1>refusing to give up a seat on a segregated bus

0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.759
<v Speaker 1>in Montgomery. But Claudett Colvin did not become the household

0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.080
<v Speaker 1>name that Rosa Parks did. Because she was an unmarried,

0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.280
<v Speaker 1>pregnant teenager who had a reputation for being a troublemaker.

0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Civil rights leaders deliberately didn't pursue her case because they

0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.880
<v Speaker 1>knew it would be a hard one to win. They

0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.080
<v Speaker 1>held out for a more so called respectable plaintiff instead,

0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.639
<v Speaker 1>And that brings us to Sylvia Rivera and the years

0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.960
<v Speaker 1>immediately after the Stonewall riots. She campaigned bravely and stridently

0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and vocally for the rights of gay and transgender people.

0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Although the term transgender, which is used to describe people

0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.880
<v Speaker 1>whose gender and identity doesn't match up with the sex

0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.600
<v Speaker 1>that they were assigned when they were born, that word

0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.079
<v Speaker 1>had not been coined yet. But Sylvia was also loud

0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and aggressive and angry and poor, sometimes even homeless. She

0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.000
<v Speaker 1>had a history of sex work and drug addictions. Her

0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.440
<v Speaker 1>mannerisms were really flamboyant, in your face. So when the

0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:28.040
<v Speaker 1>gay rights movement started trending towards so called respectability. Sylvia

0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.560
<v Speaker 1>got really pushed to the sidelines along with a lot

0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.040
<v Speaker 1>of other transgender people. She refused to be put in

0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.960
<v Speaker 1>a box, and so she wound up being excluded from

0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.080
<v Speaker 1>the very movement that she was fighting for, and she

0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.120
<v Speaker 1>was for decades pretty much forgotten about. So before we

0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.480
<v Speaker 1>get started, there's a word of caution about this story.

0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Because Sylvia ran away from home when she was only eleven.

0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Some of the events that happened to her, especially in

0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.560
<v Speaker 1>her young life, are disturbing. So parents and teachers, before

0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.480
<v Speaker 1>you share this with young people, I recommend listening to

0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.200
<v Speaker 1>it yourself first. And as a second note, some of

0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.720
<v Speaker 1>the language that was used at the time that Sylvia

0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.320
<v Speaker 1>lived and that she used about herself isn't the preferred

0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.440
<v Speaker 1>language that we used today, and will sort of point

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.560
<v Speaker 1>out those as they come up. Uh. So, now that

0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.360
<v Speaker 1>you've been warned, we will jump in as we usually

0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.239
<v Speaker 1>do at the very beginning. Sylvia was actually born Ray

0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.919
<v Speaker 1>Rivera on July two of nineteen fifty one. Her mother

0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.440
<v Speaker 1>was Venezuelan and her father was Puerto Rican. Sylvia's mother

0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.160
<v Speaker 1>committed suicide by eating rat poison when Sylvia was three.

0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.920
<v Speaker 1>She also tried to kill Sylvia at that time, but

0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia survived and went on to be raised by her grandmother,

0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.760
<v Speaker 1>via Hita. Via Hita raised both Sylvia and Sylvia's half sister.

0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Viahita was essentially functioning as a single parent. Her husband

0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.200
<v Speaker 1>had abandoned her, and Sylvia's father, who had also abandoned

0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:59.640
<v Speaker 1>the family, was not paying child support. Sylvia's grandmother was

0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.240
<v Speaker 1>also very strict. Although she taught Sylvia to cook and

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.080
<v Speaker 1>to sew and too niche, she really did not like

0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:11.040
<v Speaker 1>it when Sylvia started wearing girls clothes. Viajita would punish Sylvia,

0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:16.120
<v Speaker 1>sometimes physically, for wearing makeup and for dressing and girl's clothing, and,

0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.320
<v Speaker 1>as Sylvia described in the Oral History, Making History the

0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:25.120
<v Speaker 1>struggle for gay and lesbian equal rights, her grandmother would say, quote,

0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.640
<v Speaker 1>we don't do this. You're one of the boys. I

0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.880
<v Speaker 1>want you to be a mechanic, and Sylvia would answer, no,

0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I want to be a hairdresser, and I want to

0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.800
<v Speaker 1>wear these clothes. From Sylvia's point of view, her grandmother

0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.320
<v Speaker 1>also didn't like her because her skin was too dark.

0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.359
<v Speaker 1>She had heard her grandmother say that she wanted a

0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.839
<v Speaker 1>white granddaughter instead, and the struggle between the two of

0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.480
<v Speaker 1>them went on until at the age of ten, Sylvia

0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.680
<v Speaker 1>tried to commit suicide by taking her grandmother's pills. She

0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.120
<v Speaker 1>wound up instead in the hospital for two months. Sylvia

0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.279
<v Speaker 1>also faced bullying and harassment at school and in the

0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.760
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood as as well. The other children and their neighbors

0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't like her wearing girls clothing, and they didn't like

0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.760
<v Speaker 1>her effeminine mannerisms. Feeling lonely, isolated, and desperately at odds

0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.240
<v Speaker 1>with everyone around her, Sylvia left home at age eleven.

0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.599
<v Speaker 1>The straw that really broke the camel's back was seeing

0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.080
<v Speaker 1>how others treatment of her was affecting her grandmother. Even

0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.000
<v Speaker 1>though their relationship was often contentious and strained and even violent,

0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia did not like seeing her grandmother suffer over the

0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.560
<v Speaker 1>way people talked about her. After she ran away, Sylvia

0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.040
<v Speaker 1>went to forty two Street in New York City, which

0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.839
<v Speaker 1>was a haven for cross dressers and street walkers. She

0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.039
<v Speaker 1>had no other means to support herself, and so she

0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.960
<v Speaker 1>turned to sex work. And I want to make it

0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:43.880
<v Speaker 1>clear that there are people who choose to go into

0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.479
<v Speaker 1>sex work, but at this time Sylvia was eleven and

0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.359
<v Speaker 1>she had no other options. The area's drag queens pretty

0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.520
<v Speaker 1>much adopted her, and they're the ones who gave her

0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.839
<v Speaker 1>the name Sylvia. Sylvia was arrested frequently and her grandmother

0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.120
<v Speaker 1>would come and bail her out. A few days shy

0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.160
<v Speaker 1>of Sylvia's eighteenth birthday, she went to the Stonewall In

0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.240
<v Speaker 1>for the first time, and this was June twenty, nineteen

0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.520
<v Speaker 1>sixty nine. The Stonewall End was, like many of New

0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.279
<v Speaker 1>York's bars that catered to the gay community at the time,

0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.120
<v Speaker 1>owned by the Mafia. Homosexuality was a crime, and so

0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.640
<v Speaker 1>was cross dressing, so pretty much the only people who

0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.920
<v Speaker 1>were willing to operate businesses that catered to this demographic

0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.640
<v Speaker 1>were also themselves criminals. Gay bars were rated on a

0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.840
<v Speaker 1>regular basis. Standard operating procedure was that the police would

0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.000
<v Speaker 1>come in, they would make arrests and confiscations. They would

0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.479
<v Speaker 1>then collect a payoff, and then they would leave and

0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.880
<v Speaker 1>padlock the door behind them. Not long after the police

0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.280
<v Speaker 1>had gone, members of the mafia would come by cut

0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.760
<v Speaker 1>the padlock off. They would then restock the alcohol supply

0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.000
<v Speaker 1>and business would start right back up. So for the

0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.520
<v Speaker 1>people who didn't wind up getting arrested, it was more

0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.520
<v Speaker 1>of a hassle and an interruption to their evening's revelry

0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.359
<v Speaker 1>than anything else. For people who did get arrested, it

0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.839
<v Speaker 1>could be way way harder, and not just for the

0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.240
<v Speaker 1>fact that they were taken to jail, but often in

0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.960
<v Speaker 1>jail they were then taunted and sometimes beaten and sometimes

0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:14.400
<v Speaker 1>assaulted by other people who were in the jail. On June,

0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.360
<v Speaker 1>when the police came in, most of the patrons went

0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to the park across the street to wait, and they

0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.120
<v Speaker 1>were tired of being hassled. A lot of people say

0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:24.800
<v Speaker 1>that this was because it was the same week that

0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Judy Garland died, and that doesn't seem through the oral

0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:34.160
<v Speaker 1>histories to actually add up necessarily, but it's more a

0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.040
<v Speaker 1>point a coincidence than to cause an effect situation. Right

0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.280
<v Speaker 1>at some point, somebody started throwing coins at the police officers,

0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.000
<v Speaker 1>yelling things like here's your payoff, come get some more,

0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.040
<v Speaker 1>and then things started to escalate. People started throwing bottles

0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.200
<v Speaker 1>and Molotov cocktails. Sylvia is widely cited as the first

0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.120
<v Speaker 1>to do this, but near the end of her life

0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.280
<v Speaker 1>she really worked to try to dispel this idea, saying

0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.680
<v Speaker 1>that she was in fact the second to throw a bottle.

0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Soon the police were pinned down inside the bar with

0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.200
<v Speaker 1>the protesters outside, and the riot went on until reinforcements

0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.840
<v Speaker 1>arrived and dispersed the crowd. The Stonewall ryot wasn't remotely

0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the first event in the modern gay rights movement. It

0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.040
<v Speaker 1>wasn't even the first riot in an establishment that was

0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.880
<v Speaker 1>frequented by LGBT people. An early earlier example was a

0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.480
<v Speaker 1>riot at Cooper's Donuts in Los Angeles in X five,

0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and in that event, drag queens and gay men, many

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.240
<v Speaker 1>of them black or Latino, fought back against police, first

0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.079
<v Speaker 1>by throwing donuts, which sounds sort of funny, and then

0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.600
<v Speaker 1>with hand to hand fighting much less funny. Uh. In

0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.800
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco, a picket protest among LGBT protesters turned into

0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.520
<v Speaker 1>a riot at Compton's Cafeteria in nineteen sixty six. But

0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.199
<v Speaker 1>Stonewall really did act as a sort of tipping point

0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:57.920
<v Speaker 1>and a rallying cry, definitely the most famous today. So

0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.720
<v Speaker 1>there are several things about the riots and lvia's presence

0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.120
<v Speaker 1>there that are caused for debate today. One is just

0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.679
<v Speaker 1>how much of the Stonewell Ins clientele was made up

0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.440
<v Speaker 1>of cross stressers and transgender people. Now, as we mentioned before,

0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.440
<v Speaker 1>the term transgender had not really been coined at this

0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.240
<v Speaker 1>point in history, but when it was coined about ten

0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.800
<v Speaker 1>years later, a lot of the people who would identified

0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.840
<v Speaker 1>as cross stressors or as transvestites at the time then

0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.600
<v Speaker 1>went on to identify as transgender. So we're gonna keep

0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.960
<v Speaker 1>talking about both cross stressers and transgender people both for

0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.160
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the episode, because there are two different things.

0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.839
<v Speaker 1>Cross stressing is about the clothes you have on and

0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.560
<v Speaker 1>transgender is about your gender expression, so your expression of

0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the gender that you uh that you are inwardly versus

0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the clothes that you have on your body. In Sylvia's

0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.360
<v Speaker 1>own words, cross stressers could only get and if they

0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.080
<v Speaker 1>knew somebody, because cross stressors were really frequently targeted by

0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.679
<v Speaker 1>the police, so a lot of businesses felt like it

0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.640
<v Speaker 1>was too much of a hassle to deal with them.

0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.439
<v Speaker 1>Other people have characterized the Stonewell in as a haven

0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.840
<v Speaker 1>for cross jessers and for transgender people, and there are

0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.400
<v Speaker 1>reputable historians on both sides. Another bone of contention is

0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:17.640
<v Speaker 1>actually whether Sylvia herself was even there. She says she was, uh,

0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.080
<v Speaker 1>And of course she's often credited with being the first

0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.840
<v Speaker 1>bottle thrower, but historians have not been able to corroborate

0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.320
<v Speaker 1>her presence there through eyewitness accounts. In the end, it

0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.079
<v Speaker 1>doesn't necessarily matter how many transgender patrons the Stonewell in

0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.840
<v Speaker 1>had or whether Sylvia was actually there that night. What

0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.520
<v Speaker 1>does matter is that Sylvia and the rest of the

0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:44.120
<v Speaker 1>cross dressing and transgender community became vocal, aggressive campaigners for

0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.520
<v Speaker 1>the rights of game and lesbians, bisexuals, and all manner

0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:51.360
<v Speaker 1>of people who just didn't conform to gender norms. They were,

0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.120
<v Speaker 1>in many ways the people who were the most visibly

0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.679
<v Speaker 1>on the forefront of the fight for equality and for

0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.240
<v Speaker 1>civil rights. And we're going to talk more about what

0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.840
<v Speaker 1>happened after Stonewall, right after a word from our sponsor.

0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.560
<v Speaker 1>If that is cool with Tracy, it is. Sylvia Rivera

0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.199
<v Speaker 1>had already been active in racial equality and anti war

0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.800
<v Speaker 1>causes before the Stonewall riot, and after the riot she

0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 1>immediately passionately turned her attention to the growing movement for

0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.480
<v Speaker 1>gay rights to gay rights organizations formed in New York

0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.520
<v Speaker 1>in the wake of the riot. That was the Gay

0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Activists Alliance and the Gay Liberation Front, and Sylvia was

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.400
<v Speaker 1>active in both of those groups as part of the

0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Gay Activists Alliance. Sylvia petitioned the city of New York

0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.200
<v Speaker 1>for an anti discrimination bill, and she was arrested while

0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to get signatures. When she appeared before the judge,

0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.080
<v Speaker 1>he immediately let her go. He recognized that with all

0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.079
<v Speaker 1>of the social turmoil that was going on in the

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.079
<v Speaker 1>United States at that point, it would be a really

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.840
<v Speaker 1>unwise pr move for him to jail someone who was

0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:56.040
<v Speaker 1>getting signatures for a petition. Sylvia also testified before the

0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.120
<v Speaker 1>city Council to try to get the bill passed. However,

0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.240
<v Speaker 1>as the bill was being negotiated, others in the gay

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.080
<v Speaker 1>community agreed to drop protections for cross dressers from the

0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.040
<v Speaker 1>bill in the hope that it would be more likely

0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 1>to pass. Sylvia and many of the other cross dressing

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.080
<v Speaker 1>and transgender citizens of New York felt really deeply betrayed

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 1>by this. They had been working, campaigning and getting arrested

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes facing abuse and violence and sexual assault in

0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.880
<v Speaker 1>jail once they had been arrested fighting for these causes,

0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.360
<v Speaker 1>and at this point it felt like they had done

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>this for a cause that had then turned their back

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 1>on them. And it didn't help that the bill minus

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.680
<v Speaker 1>discrimination protections for gender expression did not actually pass until

0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 1>fifteen years later, so that would have been ninet So

0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 1>this concession really in the end was not much of

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:49.640
<v Speaker 1>a help along the way. The Gay Activists Alliance specifically

0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:55.560
<v Speaker 1>dropped rights for the cross dressing communities from its mission entirely. Consequently,

0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 1>after being excluded from other gay rights organizations, Sylvia and

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 1>her long time friend Marcia P. Johnson co founded the

0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries or STAR in the fall of

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy. Essentially, the cross dressing and transgender community had

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 1>begun to feel excluded by other gay and lesbian rights organizations,

0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 1>and so they formed their own. As a side note

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>to a lot of people today, the word transvestite has

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.240
<v Speaker 1>connotations that are offensive, so people a lot of people

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 1>prefer the word cross stressor but at the time it

0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 1>was a word that they were using to talk about

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>themselves frequently. Yeah, you also hear drag, which is in there,

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 1>and they can get a little fuzzy, and they're still

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.440
<v Speaker 1>ongoing debate over you know, terminology and who should use

0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.400
<v Speaker 1>what to some degree that's still being worked out. Yes, so, uh,

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.599
<v Speaker 1>we're not at all using those terms to be disrespectful,

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 1>but because that's those are the words that Sylvia and

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Marcia were using to describe themselves. So Sylvia and Marcia's

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>next step was to start what was known as Star House,

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.600
<v Speaker 1>and this was an outreach effort for the so called queens.

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 1>These were young homeless gay youth, many of whom later

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 1>went on to identify as transgender, and many of whom

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>were also people of color. And they originally operated Starhouse

0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 1>out of the back of a truck, and then they

0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 1>started renting a building at two thirteen et Second Street

0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>and they fixed that up and there they provided shelter, food,

0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>and guidance for homeless transgender youth and Sylvia and Marcia

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 1>really became mother figures for these kids. They had a

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 1>dance to try to raise some money to fund their operation,

0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.640
<v Speaker 1>but for the most part, Sylvia and Marcia kept the

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 1>place running by doing sex work. They tried to protect

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>all of the young people who were in their care

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 1>from being involved in the sex trade at all. However,

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.240
<v Speaker 1>many of the youth wound up helping Star Houses efforts

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 1>by stealing food and eventually, uh, you know, this is

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 1>not really a workable business model. So Starhouse was evicted

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 1>from the property for non payment of rent, and before

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>they left, they took the refrigerator and they destroyed all

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 1>of the improvements that they made in the building out

0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.440
<v Speaker 1>of a sort of turnabout is fair play mindset, And

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we should point out that the reason

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that they were having to turn to stealing and sex

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>work to fund their operations is because their entire lives

0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>at this point were not only illegal, but also specifically

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>targeted by the police and other people for harassment. So

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that was sort of what it had come to by

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>being excluded from so many other social organizations that were

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.560
<v Speaker 1>working to help homeless people and others in New York. Yeah,

0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 1>it certainly was not like, oh, we don't want to

0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 1>pursue legitimate means of gaining money. They just did not

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 1>have opportunities to do so, right, and that continues to

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>be a problem in a lot of areas today. Throughout

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>this time, Sylvia was also active in other radical organizations

0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>as well, including the Black Panther Party and the Young Lords,

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 1>which is a Puerto Rican nationalist activism group. In nine three,

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia was supposed to speak at Christopher's Street Liberation Day,

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 1>which was a festival to commemorate the anniversary of the

0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Stonewall Riots. However, radical feminists tried to keep Sylvia from

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>the stage because they viewed her wearing women's clothing as sexist.

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 1>In particular, activist Gino Leary, a former nun and lesbian feminist,

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>spoke out against Sylvia taking part. Sylvia's response was to

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 1>physically grab the microphone and to talk anyway, with a

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of vigor and profanity behind her words. Um. She

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 1>spoke very candidly and angrily about how the gay community

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 1>was benefiting from the cross stressors work while simultaneously excluding

0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>them from their successes as your payment. I do want

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 1>to note that Gino Leary went on to soften her

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 1>views about cross stressors and transgender people later in her life.

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to paint her as a terrible person

0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>who went around oppressing other people. She she did later

0:16:54.720 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 1>on express embarrassment and shame that she had really sickly

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 1>kicked people who were already down. Yeah, and the drag

0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 1>queens that were supposed to perform at this rally were

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 1>also barred from performing. After this incident, Sylvia moved to Terrytown,

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 1>New York and lived with a boyfriend. Since she was

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.679
<v Speaker 1>no longer in the city, she became less prominent in

0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 1>its civil rights and gay rights efforts, but she did

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 1>make her way back every year for the parades and

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>festivals that commemorated the end of the Stonewall Riot. In

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the interim, she led a relatively quiet life. She mostly

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 1>worked food service jobs for a while, but eventually, unfortunately,

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.880
<v Speaker 1>she began abusing drugs again and wound up homeless, and

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.120
<v Speaker 1>journalists who were working to chronicle the gay rights movements

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 1>earlier years and transgender people's contribution to the gay rights

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 1>movement found her living on the streets in New York

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 1>in the early nine nineties. This actually marked her return

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>to activism and to the public eye, which we'll talk

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 1>about after another brief ad break. It's tricky to talk

0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>about some of the issues that are in today's episod

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.399
<v Speaker 1>because the terminology that we used to talk about it today,

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 1>some of it was coined basically halfway through Sylvia Rivera's life.

0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.400
<v Speaker 1>It's also tricky to talk about Sylvia Rivera's identity, specifically UH,

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.600
<v Speaker 1>because she really really resisted the idea of labels for

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.479
<v Speaker 1>a lot of her life. She referred to herself as

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 1>a transvestite, and as we said earlier, that's the word

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that a lot of people don't prefer to be used anymore.

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.679
<v Speaker 1>The term transgender came around about halfway through her life,

0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 1>but she wasn't totally comfortable calling herself that. Towards the

0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.639
<v Speaker 1>end of her life, she said quote, I'm tired of

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.639
<v Speaker 1>being labeled. I don't even like the label transgender. I

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 1>just want to be who I am. I'm living the

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.480
<v Speaker 1>way Sylvia wants to live. But despite her lack of

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.720
<v Speaker 1>affinity for labels, Sylvia was undoubtedly an advocate for rights

0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 1>and protections for transgender people throughout the last ten years

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.880
<v Speaker 1>or show of her life. We talked earlier about Sylvia

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 1>founding the organization Star with Marsha P. Johnson. Marsha's body

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>was actually found in the Hudson River in Nineteo. Police

0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.840
<v Speaker 1>originally said that it was a suicide, but they eventually

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 1>opened a homicide investigation. And when I say eventually, I

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 1>mean two decades later. At the time of her death,

0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia and other friends of Marsha's had said that she

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 1>was not suicidal and that they had witnessed her being

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 1>harassed by someone near where her body was found shortly

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 1>before her death. In nine Sylvia was asked to lead

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 1>the twenty fifth anniversary Stonewall March. That same year, she

0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.679
<v Speaker 1>advocated for Martin Duberman's publishers to translate his LGBT history

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.199
<v Speaker 1>book Stonewall into Spanish, but according to her, she was

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.120
<v Speaker 1>told it would not sell well in quote third world countries.

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 1>In Latin countries and her last years, she and her

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.720
<v Speaker 1>partner Julia Murray lived and work at a place called

0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Transy House. This is a collective and shelter for transgender

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:58.680
<v Speaker 1>youth and they joined this collective in nine in Sylvia

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.399
<v Speaker 1>was arrested during m O real for Matthew Shepherd in

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.199
<v Speaker 1>New York. So if you are not familiar with his story,

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Shepherd was a student at the University of Wyoming

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.960
<v Speaker 1>at Laramie who was tortured, tied to a fence post,

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and left to die as part of an anti gay

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>hate crime. He wound up dying of his injuries a

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 1>few days after he was found tied to the fence post.

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.879
<v Speaker 1>According to Sylvia's own account, a police officer basically spread

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the word to arrest her first because she was known

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 1>for being very vocal at these kinds of demonstrations. In

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia spoke at the World Pride rally in Rome. In

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.000
<v Speaker 1>two thousand, another transwoman named Amanda Milan was stabbed in

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the neck and killed on street. Sylvia organized a series

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.200
<v Speaker 1>of rallies and protests surrounding her death and the trial

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>of her killers. Sylvia continued to be really vocal about

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.120
<v Speaker 1>the schism between the gay community and the trans community

0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.640
<v Speaker 1>in the years before her death, and about a year

0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 1>before she died, at a talk given before the Latino

0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Amen of New York, she said, yes, we can adopt children.

0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 1>All well and good, that's fine. I would love to

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.120
<v Speaker 1>have children. I would love to marry my lover over there,

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 1>she pointed to Julia Murray. But for political reasons, I

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 1>will not do it, because I don't feel that I

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.680
<v Speaker 1>have to fit in that closet of normal straight society

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:21.119
<v Speaker 1>which the gay mainstream is going towards. In the same speech,

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>she described the trans community's participation in the gay rights

0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.960
<v Speaker 1>movement this way quote. We were determined that evening, that evening,

0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.399
<v Speaker 1>being the night at the Stonewall riots, that we were

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.440
<v Speaker 1>going to be a liberated, free community, which we did

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 1>acquire that Actually, I'll change the WII you have acquired

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:42.640
<v Speaker 1>your liberation, your freedom. From that night, myself, I've got

0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.679
<v Speaker 1>expletive deleted, just like I had back then. But I

0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 1>still struggle, and I still continue the struggle. I will

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 1>struggle till the day I die. And my main struggle

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.640
<v Speaker 1>right now is that my community will seek the rights

0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 1>that are justly ours. In the last year of her life,

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia campaigned for New York Sexual or Ination Non Discrimination Act,

0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.880
<v Speaker 1>which is also referred to as SUNDA, and that act

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.800
<v Speaker 1>prohibits discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived sexual

0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:14.320
<v Speaker 1>orientation in employment, housing, public accommodations, education, credit, and the

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:18.960
<v Speaker 1>exercise of civil rights. It includes protections for transgender people.

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia was not exaggerating when she said that she was

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.959
<v Speaker 1>going to work until she died for this. Her last

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 1>meeting about SANDA, when she met with city officials for

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.160
<v Speaker 1>the last time, took place in a hospital bed when

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.119
<v Speaker 1>she was an in stage liver disease and in great pain.

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>She died on February nineteenth, two thousand two, of liver

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.000
<v Speaker 1>disease at the age of fifty one. SANDA was signed

0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.760
<v Speaker 1>into law on December seventeenth of that same year. On

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.720
<v Speaker 1>November fourteenth of two thousand and five, the City of

0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.879
<v Speaker 1>New York named the corner of Christopher and Hudson Streets

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:57.679
<v Speaker 1>in the West Village Sylvia Rivera Way. Today, the Sylvia

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Rivera Food Pantry, which is under the auspice, is of

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 1>the Metropolitan Community Church of New York, which serves the

0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.679
<v Speaker 1>working poor as well as people with HIV through a

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 1>specialized pantry program that's designed for people on anti retroviral

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.720
<v Speaker 1>therapies UH. These are higher in protein and easy to prepare.

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 1>It also provides nutritional information and kind of meal guidance

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 1>for all of the populations that it serves. Sylvia's Place

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.160
<v Speaker 1>is a Metropolitan Community Church of New York services organization

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 1>for homeless youth. Sylvia Rivera Law projects work focuses on

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 1>transgender intersects and gender nonconforming people, particularly those who are

0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:41.680
<v Speaker 1>low income people and people of color. They provide legal services,

0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:46.719
<v Speaker 1>public education, and advocacy for public policy reform. She had

0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.439
<v Speaker 1>a big legacy. She did have a big legacy. She

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.640
<v Speaker 1>had a big legacy that I think her Her name

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.520
<v Speaker 1>is not necessarily well known in the context of the

0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 1>gay rights movement unless you are pretty familiar with it.

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 1>The oral history that we referenced, making history Um, she

0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.680
<v Speaker 1>is actually the only transgender person who's included, and she's

0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:11.639
<v Speaker 1>referred to with male pronouns the whole time, and is

0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 1>classified as a drag queen, which is she did call

0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:19.680
<v Speaker 1>herself a drag queen, but that's kind of limiting and

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 1>how she actually viewed herself. I mean, since she was

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.479
<v Speaker 1>not a fan of the labels and she identified in

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:30.679
<v Speaker 1>her life as Sylvia, like a lot of drag performers

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:36.120
<v Speaker 1>will still maintain their uh you know, in many cases,

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 1>the old school drag performers that were mostly men and

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:43.679
<v Speaker 1>then presented as female for performance, they still maintained that

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:48.920
<v Speaker 1>male persona, whereas she did not at all totally. One

0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:50.280
<v Speaker 1>of the reasons that I wanted There are a couple

0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 1>of reasons that I wanted to do this episode, and

0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:57.880
<v Speaker 1>one is that I think the campaign for transgender rights

0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 1>has been increasingly present in the news over the last

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>year or so in terms of mainstream news coverage. It's

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 1>definitely not something that has been unknown, but when it

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:13.800
<v Speaker 1>comes to like the really mainstream news outlets, um, and

0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the other is a lot of the things that Sylvia

0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 1>and the young people that she and Marcia were looking after,

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, twenty years ago. A lot of those issues

0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:27.320
<v Speaker 1>still really exist today, Like, there are still a lot

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of homeless transgender youth who's who've basically been thrown out

0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 1>of their homes by their parents and don't really have

0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.639
<v Speaker 1>anywhere else to turn. So I think her legacy is

0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 1>extremely important, not just for having been part of the

0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.439
<v Speaker 1>gay rights movement, but for specifically when it comes to

0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:48.000
<v Speaker 1>working with homeless young people who don't really have anywhere

0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.359
<v Speaker 1>else to go. Yeah, it's an extremely high risk community

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:56.720
<v Speaker 1>in terms of uh, violence, falling into sex word, you know,

0:25:56.840 --> 0:26:00.880
<v Speaker 1>just really being in at risk situations. Yeah. Well, and

0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Sylvia specifically in addition to being uh originally identifying as

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:12.320
<v Speaker 1>a transvestite and then later kind of identifying as transgender.

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe in addition to that, she was Latina, and she

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.679
<v Speaker 1>was very poor, she was not particularly educated. She was

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:20.399
<v Speaker 1>in a whole lot of at risk groups all at

0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the same time. And um she had she said in

0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:27.879
<v Speaker 1>a in a speech right before her her death, not

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:29.680
<v Speaker 1>right before, about a year before, that she wanted to

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 1>live to be a hundred. She only made it to

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 1>fifty one. But given all of those factors, the fact

0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 1>that she made it to fifty one in the time

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>that she was living. It's pretty incredible. That's the saddest

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:44.160
<v Speaker 1>possible place to end that. So on a more upbeat tone,

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:47.480
<v Speaker 1>we're going to do a continuation of what we have

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.080
<v Speaker 1>already started, which is reading some of the responses we

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:54.480
<v Speaker 1>got when we asked for people who had history degrees

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to tell us kind of what they did with those

0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.119
<v Speaker 1>in terms of their career, which grew out of a

0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 1>question someone to us of how we got work to

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 1>where we are and how people who study history in

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 1>college might get such jobs, and we didn't know because

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:09.480
<v Speaker 1>that's not what we studied in college. So we went

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:12.400
<v Speaker 1>to our fabulous listener base because they are smarty pants

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 1>is and a lot of them have history degrees. Uh.

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:18.959
<v Speaker 1>So we will read a few more summer short uh.

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 1>One is our listener, Christina. She has a degree in

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>history from the University of Toronto St. Michael's and she

0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 1>went on to teach high school in the Toronto area

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.959
<v Speaker 1>and she teaches Canadian history to Grade ten students as

0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:33.080
<v Speaker 1>well as other social studies courses. So we always love

0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:36.400
<v Speaker 1>a teacher, So thank you for teaching the historians of tomorrow.

0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Our listener, Kristen got her bachelor's in history and she's

0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 1>currently finishing up her master's uh. She currently works to

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.640
<v Speaker 1>part time jobs both in history. She's a museum educator

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.919
<v Speaker 1>at a hands on children's museum as well as registrar

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>at a lighthouse museum, which sounds fascinating to me, and

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:57.320
<v Speaker 1>then once her master's degree is complete, her plan is

0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 1>to work in preservation. So a lot of these kind

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 1>of do lead to an archivist path. Our listener Meghan

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 1>is a curator, and she says, my recommendation is to

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>find out what your interests are teaching, research, museum studies, politics, etcetera,

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 1>and go from there. If working in a museum is

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.199
<v Speaker 1>your career goal, I'd recommend taking any internships that may

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 1>be offered and volunteer as much as possible. Our listener

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.720
<v Speaker 1>Gina said, I have a double major liberal arts degree

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 1>in history and classical Studies, i e. Ancient Mediterranean. It

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 1>has served me well through very jobs by endowing me

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:33.720
<v Speaker 1>with an appreciation of perspective, context, communication, and storytelling, which

0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:35.600
<v Speaker 1>is what drew me to ancient Greece and Rome in

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the first place. And I believe that understanding the roles

0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 1>played by perspective and context in historical storytelling gives us

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 1>a foundation for humanistic empathy that can impact how we

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 1>read and interpret news stories today. I could not agree more. Uh.

0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:51.600
<v Speaker 1>These days, I am celebrating almost a decade in sales

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 1>and customer service and expanding my communication skills into the

0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 1>animal world with dogcare and training. Uh. She makes such

0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 1>a great point. I think about kind of the historical

0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 1>perspective giving you a better lens through which to view

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.959
<v Speaker 1>the world around us today. Definitely that's a motivating factor

0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:12.440
<v Speaker 1>in my episode selection. Sometimes. Yeah, and then the last

0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 1>time I will read is from Colleen, and Colleen says

0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I bartend and my degree gives me lovely conversation fodder

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:20.880
<v Speaker 1>off and all reference. Your podcast then discussed something I

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:23.880
<v Speaker 1>studied that vaguely relates. I've worked with several other folks

0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 1>with degrees in equally exciting fields creative writing, graphic design, etcetera.

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 1>I genuinely love my job, But as one of many

0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 1>folks who graduated just as the quote great Recession began,

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the actual history related career opportunities for history degrees we're

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:39.640
<v Speaker 1>not as plentiful as one might hope. That happens a

0:29:39.680 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 1>lot to liberal arts degree holders in general, and especially

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.280
<v Speaker 1>in the last five seven years. It's been a long

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 1>time since we've had like a big staff expansion that

0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 1>how stuff works, but we did several years ago. And

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>one of the best things about that was Number one.

0:29:56.880 --> 0:30:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I was always like, I wanna find people. You don't

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 1>have to have a journalism degree, you don't have to

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 1>have an English degree, but a liberal arts degree is

0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 1>preferred because there's so much research and writing involved in

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:11.560
<v Speaker 1>basically every liberal arts degree. Um. And then number two

0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:17.480
<v Speaker 1>was getting to basically offer people jobs. Yeah, it was

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:19.600
<v Speaker 1>a good feeling. It's a really good feeling to make

0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 1>that phone call doing the things that the career center

0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 1>at college was always telling me, Like, people love liberal

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.320
<v Speaker 1>arts degrees because of all these reasons that these history

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 1>majors have just been pointing out. But then when I

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 1>got into the world of actually trying to find the job,

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I was like, you guys, true films were told. Yeah,

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.440
<v Speaker 1>so I got to make that true for some people

0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 1>on a limited scale. Yeah, which is awesome. Anybody who

0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 1>gets a chance to work for Tracy, I highly recommend it.

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 1>So if you would like, I really genuinely do that.

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:53.960
<v Speaker 1>It's not me being nice because she's here, she's my

0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:57.960
<v Speaker 1>favorite boss I think of all time. That's you have

0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:00.880
<v Speaker 1>some stiff competition there. You're there's a very close seconds.

0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 1>So if you do something wrong, you're gonna fall the

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:05.400
<v Speaker 1>number two. But right now I'll try not to do that.

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 1>You won't. If you would like to write to us,

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 1>we are at History podcast that How Stuff Works dot com.

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Our Facebook is Facebook dot com slash mss in history,

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.560
<v Speaker 1>and our Twitter is miss in History. Our tumbler is

0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:18.640
<v Speaker 1>miss in history dot tumble dot com, and we are

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>also on Pinterest at pinterest dot com slash miss in History.

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 1>We have a spreadshirt store where you can buy all

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.880
<v Speaker 1>kinds of cool stuff you miss in history class slag

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:32.040
<v Speaker 1>that is at miss in history dot spreadshirt dot com.

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:33.680
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to learn a little bit more

0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:36.240
<v Speaker 1>about something that we've talked about today, you can come

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:39.480
<v Speaker 1>to our website and you can put the word transgender

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 1>into the search bar, and one of the things that

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.840
<v Speaker 1>you will find is an article called ten Things Doctors

0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Have Changed their Minds about this Century, which talks about

0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.600
<v Speaker 1>the changes in the ways that the medical community have

0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:56.040
<v Speaker 1>transgender people and gender expression. You can come to our website,

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 1>which is miss in history dot com, and you can

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.840
<v Speaker 1>find our show notes and next to all the episodes,

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and a giant archive of everything we've ever done. So

0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 1>you can do all of that at how stuff works

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 1>dot com or missed in history dot com. For more

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:14.680
<v Speaker 1>on this and thousands of other topics, is it how

0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:27.920
<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com