1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: So this is Stuff you Should Know Controversy Edition. Yeah. Sure, 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: there will be some of that in here, for sure. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: But I also think it's important when we're talking about 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: removing public monuments that it's not all about Confederate monuments. No. Actually, 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because that actually brings up 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: a pretty good intro. There's some monuments in New York City, 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: New York City, New York City. Um. Yeah, that was 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: such a great commercial, wasn't it. And it's endured. Um. 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: There's four of them actually that are being targeted for 13 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: removal by UM activists. Baldy no all. The Columbus is 14 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: one of them. I believe that the Columbus statue in 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: Columbus Circle one of Teddy Roosevelt. I think it's at 16 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: the Museum of Natural History. Interesting, and um, I was like, 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: what's wrong with this one? It's from Teddy Roosevelt. And 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: then if you go and look at the statue in 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: this context, you're like, yeah, Okay, I can kind of 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: see that one. He's like valiantly astride this horse, and 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: this African tribesman and this Native American chief are down 22 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: on the ground on either side of him, like he's 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: just in charge of the show, right, So I can 24 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: kind of see that one. There's another one of a 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: guy named J. M. Sims I believe is his name. 26 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: He's known as the father of guy in ecology. He 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why I laughed at that. I just 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: I guess I'll just go ahead. So his that's why 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: he had a statute. So it's just him, just him 30 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: with a giant volva right behind him. It's just him, 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: like you know, a normal statue honoring a man and um. 32 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: The problem is is that although he's the father of 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: gyne incology, he was also known in the first half 34 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century to carry out like um experimental 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: surgery on slave women with like zero anesthesia, obviously without consent, 36 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: and he's been compared to Joseph Mangel It basically it's 37 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: just this mad scientist with zero regard for human life. 38 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: And you might say, well, this is the first half 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, but some people argue that even 40 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: at the time what he was doing would have been 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: considered by his contemporaries as as unethical. Well, and as 42 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: you will see as we go through this, uh so, 43 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: much of the conversation around this controversy is, Um, do 44 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: we look at it through the lens of when it 45 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: was put up, why it was put up, who it 46 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: was put up by? Or do we look at it 47 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: do lens of Hey, it's do we still need to 48 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: honor someone now who we know did monstrous things? Yeah, 49 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: those are all really great questions. Or should we leave 50 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: it up as a cautionary tale is another argument? And 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna wait into all these waters. So the reason 52 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: that we're even talking about this and and the reason 53 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: why you can had you been around towns like Baltimore, 54 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: New Orleans, um, Helena, Montana in the summer of two 55 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, you would have seen Confederate statues being removed, 56 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: uh sometimes in the dead of night. Um. The whole 57 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: reason all of this started was actually back in two 58 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen when the the was it the Columbia. 59 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: It was Columbia, South Carolina. It wasn't Charleston, right, it 60 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: was Charleston. The church. Yeah, the church shooter, the Charleston 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: church massacre where nine people died by an a bowed 62 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: white suprema assist right, really started up this idea that 63 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and I think it woke a lot of you know, 64 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: the establishment up to the idea that there's all this 65 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: iconography all around the country that a pretty large section 66 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: of people have a real issue with and that everybody 67 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: has just totally ignored their their problems with it for decades. Right. 68 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: That really kind of woke a lot of people up. 69 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: And it got a lot of city councils around the 70 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: country reevaluating why they had these things up still was 71 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: it worth just taking down? And a lot of them 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: did take some stuff down, right. And then in the 73 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: summer of two thousand seventeen, I think it was, was 74 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: it May or August? Um was it August, the Charlottesville 75 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: rally was held. I can't remember the month, but but 76 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was two thousand seventeen. The hotter months 77 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen, there was a there was a 78 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: white supremacist rally in favor of the Roberty Lee statue 79 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: that was marked to be It was it was controversial 80 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the statue of Roberty Lee from Charlottesville UM and people 81 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: have been talking about taking it down. So white supremacists 82 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: met to support the statue. Counter protests UM were met 83 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: the white supremacists and violence broke out. One woman died 84 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: UM and it was just a bad scene that created 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: even more like a second wave of people looking at 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: these statues and said, Okay, not only are these possibly 87 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: like creating an unfriendly public environment for people like whole 88 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: swaths of people that are Americans here in the United States, 89 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: but they can also serve as flashpoints for violence, and 90 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: we should really rethink these. And by the time the 91 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: second wave happened, state legislatures around the country, especially in 92 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the South, had intervened between the first wave and the 93 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: second wave and started passing UM legislation that said, you 94 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: can't move public monuments, especially ones that are dedicated to 95 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: UM war heroes, wars that have been around for like 96 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: forty years or more, basically putting an end to the 97 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: easy removal of Confederate monuments around the country. And so 98 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: all this is done is created this huge conflict. Well 99 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: it was already a conflict one way or the other, 100 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: but this the the the conflict is is now both 101 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: sides are just butting up against each other. And you know, 102 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: when you push two masses together, they tend to go upward. 103 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: And and that's basically what's happening right now. Lava is 104 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: going upward here in the United States as tensions are rising, 105 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: and it has never been more tense in my lifetime 106 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: and probably your lifetime as well, Chuck, which are virtually 107 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: the same thing. But that's where we stand right now 108 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: in January of two thousand and eighteen. Right, Uh, can 109 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: we cover some history here though? Yeah, let's all right, 110 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: So this is nothing new though, Um, as far as 111 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: just taking down public monuments, the world since the beginning 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: of time has erected monuments and then eventually had someone 113 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: that wants to take down that monument um right here 114 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: in America when we one of the first things we 115 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: did when the Revolutionary War kicked off was said, Hey, 116 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: let's go down to the King George the Third Statue 117 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: in Manhattan and let's pull that thing down. Uh. In 118 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: on July six we just heard the Declaration of Independence 119 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: for the first time and we got them. Yeah, and 120 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: let's take down that statue. And you know what, let's 121 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: not only do that, let's melt down that thing into 122 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: forty plus thousand bullets to fire upon them with. Yeah, 123 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: that's pretty sweet. It's pretty pretty ironic. You know. He said, 124 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: here's some King George for you red coat. I think 125 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: that's what they said. Uh. And this, this goes well 126 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: well beyond that. Of course, um Spanish raised Aztec and 127 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: other temples in the America's so Catholic cathedrals could be built. 128 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: Like basically someone would would take over, tear down those statues, 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: put up their own. Then someone else would come along 130 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: tear down those statues. And you know it wouldn't always 131 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot of times it was a good thing, So 132 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: you would have like in in Hungary in ninety he 133 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: had the Hungarian uprising against the Soviets and they storm 134 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: Budapest and tore down a statue of Stalin. Stalin had 135 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: quite a few, and Lenin quite a few statues of 136 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: themselves the years. Yeah, wherever communism spread, if there was 137 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: like a communist backed regime or country, or even just 138 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: a non backed communist polarized country, you could probably find 139 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: a statue of at least Lenin, if not Stalin two 140 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: in this country, even like places like Ethiopia had them. Right, 141 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: And so when there's an invading army or a revolution 142 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: or a regime change. This is usually when you see 143 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: a statue torn down. It's a symbolic gesture, sure it 144 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: it is, and and it's almost like not it's but 145 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: it's also like a part of the healing process that 146 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: seems like too, or at least the transition process, let's 147 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: call it that. Right. Yeah, Then there's another there's another 148 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: type of situation where statues tend to get torn down, 149 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: and that's when there's like a cultural shift. And that's 150 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: kind of what we're seeing now in with this um 151 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: with the Confederate monument controversies, right, and what you've also 152 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: seen in the two thousands in Latin America where in 153 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: places like Venezuela, statues of Columbus started to come down 154 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: and replaced with things like uh indigenous chiefs who once 155 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: tried to fight off people like Columbus. Yeah, Gouai kai Porto, Yeah, 156 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: which is a that's a full shift from not only 157 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: are we gonna not walk by this Columbus statue every 158 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: day now that we know we know, but we're gonna 159 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: put up a statue of people that try to defend 160 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: against him, right, right, So It's almost like they are 161 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: hundreds of years later throwing off the uh, the shackles 162 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: of imperialism, I guess, the stank of imperialism. Right. Should 163 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: we take a break? I'm pretty worked up? Yeah, yeah, 164 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I feel like we need to go rub each other's 165 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: shoulders for a minute. All right, prepare for it, Josh, Okay, 166 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: So the the place we find in ourselves right now? Well, 167 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: how about this, chuck? Why why are there any public 168 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: monuments anywhere anyway? Right? Look like, I think that's kind 169 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: of the core of this. We have to get to 170 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: what is really being talked about here, because it's if 171 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: it's just some statue or something like that, especially in 172 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: some places like far flung as Helena, Montana. Um. What 173 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: does the statue of the Confederacy have anything to do with? 174 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: What does any statue have anything to do with? Yeah? Well, 175 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: first of all, they're more than um according to Southern 176 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: Party Law Center, more than statues, flags, plaques, city names, 177 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: county names, street names, and holidays uh named and even 178 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: military bases named after Confederate generals or dedicated somehow to 179 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: the American Confederacy. UM. And that includes everything from like 180 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: like you said, street names and flags and all that. 181 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: There's like, there's seven hundred statues and monuments just on 182 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: public property UM in the so seven statues and monuments 183 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,479 Speaker 1: and thirty two of those who have either been dedicated 184 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: or rededicated since two thousands, right, So what these these 185 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: range anywhere from uh Confederate Avenue over on the east 186 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: side of Atlanta, which is just a street name to um. 187 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: You drive through Atlanta and you see, if you pay attention, 188 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: you see Civil War battle plaques all over the place. 189 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: And these are I put these in a slightly different 190 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: category because they are literally just historical markers. Like they're 191 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: very neutral on this in this sonic parking lot, there 192 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: once was was a battle waged between this brigade and 193 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: this brigade on this date, and this is what happened here, 194 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: not even that. Sometimes it'll be like the the the 195 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Confederate Army thought about making camp here but decided not to, 196 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: So they did a quarter mile east of this because 197 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: it's a little hilly, don't you think. Can you blame them? Yeah? 198 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: And those I put those in different category because those 199 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: are historical markers of where something happened. It's not saying 200 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: maybe some of them do, but it's not saying this 201 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: is where the proud sons of the eighteenth Brigade fought 202 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: off the evil Yanks in their bid to ensure slavery. Yeah, 203 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: that tends to be. You'll find those more unlike monuments 204 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: or statues, especially ones that were bankrolled by private individuals 205 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: or private groups who were just one and the same 206 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: with the people who were running that that little town 207 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, I mean all right, So that's 208 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: that's sort of the crux for me with this whole 209 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: thing is when, where, when, and why were these things 210 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: erected to begin with, and by whom and in many 211 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: many cases, uh, some private rich person paid for this 212 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: thing to be put up as a definitive screw you 213 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: to what was going on in the country at the time. 214 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: And it's very rarely has it just been like, hey, 215 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: you know what, we should just put up a statue 216 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: because we think Robert Lee is a great general um. 217 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: Time and time again, you see stories, for instance, Charlottesville, 218 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: that statue of Robert E. Lee. It was commissioned and 219 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: paid for by a wealthy individual named Paul Goodlow McIntyre 220 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen, when he also bought the surrounding park 221 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: and said this is for whites only, and let's put 222 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: a statue of general lee Like, the context of how 223 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: that happened is key to me, right, and actually, Chuck, 224 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: that still goes on today. A lot of the monuments 225 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: that are erected to the Confederacy are erected through private funding, 226 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: private land, which makes them wholly out of reach of 227 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: any debate over whether they should be removed or not. 228 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:14,239 Speaker 1: Because that, uh, that is covered by two very important 229 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: American rights, which is the right to free speech whether 230 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: people like it or not, and private property rights. You 231 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: put those two things together, something is basically untouchable. Yeah, 232 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: and and listen, we say all of this, uh, like, 233 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm not really weighing in. I think people probably know 234 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: I feel let's be honest, Um, I'm not weighing in 235 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: here one way or the other. But we say all 236 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: that just to say that just because there is a statue, 237 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: uh that looks great and it was really expensive, um 238 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: in a in a town square, it doesn't mean that 239 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: it represented ever maybe or certainly now the um wants 240 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: of the community at large. Sometimes it may have just 241 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: been a single individual that had enough sway and money 242 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: to say I'm at the statue. Yeah, you know what 243 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying. So it's a very and I think who 244 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: wrote this was a Dave Ruce. He put it best. 245 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: He said, you know, what it represents is a very 246 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: narrow historical record. Right, especially at the time, it might 247 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: have really not represented a lot of people. It might 248 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: even in some cases it may more people may feel 249 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: represented by it now than they did at the time. Um. Apparently, 250 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: especially for some of these older ones, it was not 251 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: a normal thing to erect some sort of memorial to 252 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: the Confederacy immediately after the Civil War. Two for a 253 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One is that there are plenty of 254 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: Union veterans still around the country and they would not 255 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: have been very happy to have seen something like that. 256 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: And then secondly, the South was very, very poor for 257 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: decades after the war. Um it was. It was not 258 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: a wealthy place. There's not a lot of money running 259 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: around for towns to put together, um enough money to 260 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: erect a decent statue that would last for a hundred years. Um. 261 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: But like you said, though, by the time that they 262 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: did start to be erected, um there there there, it's 263 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: it coincided with some really important something very important, which 264 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: was the Jim Crow era. Yeah, either Jim Crow a 265 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: lot of them or the civil rights movement. Yeah, so 266 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: this it's not an accident. Now, the Southern Poverty Law 267 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: Center UM is a it's an organization that tracks hate groups. 268 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: And if you're a hate group, you probably don't put 269 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: much stock into studies created by the Southern Poverty Law Center. 270 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: But um, the the SPLC did a study of Confederate markers, 271 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: monument statues, street names, all that stuff around the country 272 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: tree and they found that the vast majority of these 273 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: things were erected in like the Jim Crow era at 274 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: the from like say eight ninety till just after the 275 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: First World War. That that's when most of the statues 276 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: to the Confederacy and monuments were erected. And this is 277 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: a time when the South had gone through reconstruction, the 278 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: North had abandoned the reconstruction project. From what I understand, 279 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: I didn't realize this before, but basically there was this 280 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: period what was called a period of healing between the 281 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: North and the South, that the divisiveness between the two 282 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: areas grew so so deep that war broke out, and 283 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: then afterwards the hurt feelings started to subside enough that 284 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: there was this desire to to come back together to heal, 285 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: and the North and the South decided that they would 286 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: heal at the expense of the African Americans and they 287 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: would find common ground by saying, yeah, I think we 288 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: can find we can all agree that that whites are 289 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: the supreme race. And the African Americans, who had just 290 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: recently been freed in the South and we're carrying out reconstruction, 291 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: said wait what and um, this is the Jim Crow 292 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: era that kicked off the Jim Crow era, and this 293 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: was the time when these monuments started to be erected. 294 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: Like you said, it doesn't seem to have been much 295 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: of an accident the timing. And if you talk to 296 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: some historians, they say, Nos, no accident whatsoever. This was 297 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: white saying you might not be under by law under 298 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: white control any longer. But it's pretty plain and simple. 299 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: We've just directed a monument to remind you that about 300 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: white supremacy and that that's the law of the land. 301 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: Where's your statue and your monument. I don't see it anywhere, 302 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: So I guess we win. Yeah. I mean the Georgia 303 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: State flag controversy is the prime example I remember when 304 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: that was happening on the early two thousand's. For those 305 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: of you don't know, the Georgia state flag, uh, from 306 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six to two thousand one, um was was 307 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: changed and had the the good old Confederate stars and 308 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: bars on the right hand right half of it. And 309 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: I remember at the time a lot of people saying, 310 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: you know, this is our history, this is uh, you 311 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: can't change our flag. You can't change our flag racing history. 312 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: And I think many of them may not even have 313 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: realized that that was not the original flag. They went 314 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: back to the original flag after two thousand one, but 315 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: they they threw those stars and bars on there in 316 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six. And what what was going on in 317 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: Atlanta in nineteen fifty six, you know, right the civil 318 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: rights Sarah de segregation or desegregation, I should say, yeah, 319 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: And it was just very plainly a middle finger to 320 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: desegregation and once again a reminder, we're gonna fly this 321 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: flag now that has the Confederate battle flag on it. 322 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,479 Speaker 1: And in you know, fifty something years later in the 323 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: two thousand's, maybe a lot of people will forget that 324 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: this was not the original flag. And that's exactly what happened. Man, 325 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: it happened in aces too, So the that so the 326 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: SPLC study found the same found what you were saying 327 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: that there are basically two big and and there are 328 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: always Confederate monuments and statues being erected or streets being 329 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: named that, or flags going up. But there were two periods, 330 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era in the Civil Rights era where 331 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: they really increased. And the fact that those those statues 332 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: and monuments really increased and coincided with these these times 333 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: of struggle for white supremacy um really provides a pretty 334 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: compelling case that those Confederate monuments and those rebel flags 335 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: on those state houses are meant to express white supremacy. Yeah, 336 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: it's tough to it's tough to look at it any 337 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: other way when you when you look at this timeline 338 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: like that, And that's what's that issue. You know, what 339 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: what is the meaning of the Confederate flag on a 340 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: state house, What is the meaning of a Confederate monument 341 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: or statue in a town square? What is it ultimately 342 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: trying to say? And that's that's really at the heart 343 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: of this controversy, is what are you trying to say 344 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: with that thing? What are we now, as the society 345 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: in the small little town in Georgia, Alabama, or Louisiana wherever, 346 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: What are we saying by fighting over keeping this statue 347 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: or this flag flying? What's what's what's the argument here? Well, yeah, 348 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: people in favor of keeping them will say that it's uh, 349 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: you know, it's dangerous to a race history. You're we 350 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: can learn from these things. They can serve as reminders 351 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: of how not to be maybe, Um. But at the 352 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: very least, you can't erase history. So don't even try 353 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: to erase history. Um. So that's basically the one of 354 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: the main arguments against taking these down, right, Just you 355 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: can't whitewash history. You can erase history, right. So that's one. 356 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: Another one is um and this is a big one. 357 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: That's that's really kind of kept a lot of these 358 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: things up so far, is that, Um, the Confederate monuments, 359 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: the Confederate statutes, the Confederate flags are not meant as 360 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: symbols of hatred or slavery or oppression. They are Um. 361 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: You'll see people say that it's heritage, not hate, right, 362 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: And what they mean with that is this thing called 363 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: the lost Cause narrative. Right. So the Lost Cause narrative 364 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: is this idea that um, well, actually I found that 365 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: there's like six parts to it. All right, are you 366 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: ready for these, because I'm gonna lay them out. So 367 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: the Lost Causes basically this narrative that says that the 368 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: the South, the Confederacy, the Civil War, none of it 369 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: had to do with slavery, or if it did, it 370 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: had very very little to do with slavery. That really 371 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: the Civil War was the War of Northern aggression. There 372 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: was the North that started it. The South just wanted 373 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: to seceed from the North, just wanted to get away 374 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: from this federal government that cared not about states rights, 375 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: that cared not about the South and it's its economy 376 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: or it's anabellum mansions or anything like that. That really 377 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: was the War of Northern aggression, and that the Confederacy 378 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: was just protecting their homeland, protecting their way of life, 379 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: and that it was secession not slavery that was um 380 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: at issue here. And a lot of people say, well, 381 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: what was the South seceding from if not the the 382 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: the right exactly right. There's some other tenants to it too. 383 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: There's this is very important. This is an important part 384 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: of the Lost Cause narrative is that actually e slaves 385 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: were happy to be enslaved. They were happy with their servitude. 386 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: They didn't have to think about what to do with life, 387 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: they didn't have to worry about wondering what they were 388 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: gonna do, and they were maybe too shiftless to really 389 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: be responsible to manage their own life anyway. So they 390 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: were actually happier under the Anabellum plantation system of slavery 391 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: than they were free. That's a huge tenant of the 392 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: Lost Cause UM. And then the other part of it, 393 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: and the whole reason that it has the name the 394 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: Lost Cause, is that the only reason, the only reason 395 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: that the Confederacy lost the Civil War was because the 396 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: UM the North was just so so vastly richer with resources, manpower, 397 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: UM industry, that the South from the beginning UM was 398 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: destined to lose the war. It just couldn't couldn't compete 399 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: in that respect. Hence the name lost cause. The South's 400 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: cause was lost from the outset. So if you were 401 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: a defender of Confederate at monuments, this is probably the 402 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: reason you're giving for defending them, that these are these 403 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: things are not up to intimidate anybody that the people 404 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: who are intimidated by them, the people who are taking 405 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: them as white supremacy are simply taking them the wrong way. 406 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: And then Chuck, there's one other thing that, like is 407 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: a question that has to be answered around this whole thing, 408 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: and that is that, like, if if it's true that 409 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 1: like the original Confederate monuments that were put up around 410 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: like say the eighteen nineties or up to the nineteen 411 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: twenties or something, right, if those things like actually were 412 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: put up out of like respect for the people who 413 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: fought for their homeland, um, and for family members who 414 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: have just recently died, and was actually out of like 415 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: this respect for heritage, rather than as a symbol of 416 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: hate and oppression. Isn't it possible though that those still 417 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: those same monuments could develop racist symbolism over time for 418 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: some people. And if that's the case, then you know, 419 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: if you are somebody who believes in them as a 420 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: point of heritage and pride, how do you reconcile that 421 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: that for other people there there? Um they're saying, hey, yeah, 422 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy, buddy, I'm with you on that. How do 423 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: you how do you separate those two? And if that 424 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: is the case, if you do agree that there are 425 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: people out there who you have nothing to do with 426 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: who view these things as a as a symbol of 427 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy. Then isn't your beef with them rather than 428 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: the people who are offended by that and want to 429 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: take those things down. That's a good point. I don't 430 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: have the answers, of course. Well no, I don't either, 431 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: But I mean, just the this is just such a 432 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: hornet's nous. It's just a ball of worms writhing around. Yeah, 433 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: it's complicated with with you know, seven hundred plus like 434 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: literal statues, each with their own backstory. It's kind of 435 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: hard to make some huge generalization probably for sure, for 436 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: sure it's true. All right, we let's take another break. 437 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: Let's take our final break, and what's talk a little 438 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: bit about just the ins and outs, like the sort 439 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: of the mechanics of really removing these and how that works. 440 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: Uh and uh the counter argument to lost cause legally, 441 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: which would hinge on the equal protection argument right after this. Alright, so, um, 442 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: here's how these things are generally, um, not only taken down, 443 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: but how they're how they're put up. To begin with, 444 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: we already mentioned the private, wealthy citizen who UM, just 445 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: want to do something like this. It's obviously one way 446 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: you can go down. Uh. The other way is as 447 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: a lot of cities now UM, starting in the nineteen nineties, 448 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: have commissions for approving these monuments. UM. The US Savannah, Georgia, 449 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: very historic city in our own state as an example, 450 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: they have a Historic Site and Monument Commission. They meet 451 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: every month. They look at applications. Most cities will have 452 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: an application process that you fill out that has to 453 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: prove certain criteria to us if you want a public monument. UM. 454 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: And they look over these all over the country all 455 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: the time and either approved them or not. UM. I 456 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: always thought it was funny that one of the big 457 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: parts is usually like what's this gonna cost us? Right exactly? 458 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, like upkeep like what are we looking at here? Um? 459 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: And like I said, these are pretty new, starting mostly 460 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties and later. UM. But it's generally 461 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: to ensure that newer monuments has public support, whereas many 462 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: of these older monuments did may not have had wide 463 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: public support, but it was influential, wealthy few that decided 464 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: what went up, right, right, Yeah, So like what like 465 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: we said, the the the massacre at the church in 466 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: Charleston really set off the first wave, and then the 467 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: um Charlottesville protests set off the second wave of statue removal. 468 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: But in between, a lot of state legislatures intervened and 469 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: said no, because you towns and cities, you're in our 470 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: state and where the law of the land. So we're 471 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: saying you can't remove these monuments without our approval, and 472 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: we're not going to give our approval to these things. Right. 473 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: But previous to that, when the states previously them reacting 474 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: to that and making these laws, it could be the 475 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: city that decided or the county or whatever the local 476 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: government was, or if it's on state owned land, obviously 477 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: it would be the state legislature. Yeah. So I mean 478 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways that, Like if the state 479 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: hasn't intervened and created a state law that says you 480 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: can't remove that, Yeah, if you're a city council or 481 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: a board of commissioners in a county or something like that, 482 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: you have full authority to remove these things. Um, and 483 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: you can remove them for all sorts of different reasons. Um. 484 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: There's this the article sites the statue in New York, 485 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: the scary lucile ball statue. Remember that, man, I went 486 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: back and looked, and oh, I feel so bad for 487 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: that sculptor. The fish guy. The second lady nailed it. 488 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean she did such a good job. I didn't 489 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: see the second one, man, the first Oh yeah, I 490 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: did see the second one. It's just when you see 491 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: him side by side, you just one looks like Lucio 492 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: Ball and one looks like Lucio Ball. Got um zombie 493 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: Lucio Ball. Yeah, you're drawn by Ralph Steadman or something 494 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: weird like that, you know, so um her, No, it 495 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: really doesn't. So the city council of Sellern, New York, 496 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: Lucio Ball's hometown, said, uh, we're we don't like the statue. 497 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: It's terrible. We're gonna take it down, scaring the kids. 498 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: So they took it down because it was an ugly statue. 499 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: But a city council could say we're gonna take it 500 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: down because we've heard from enough of our citizens that 501 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: they're intimidated by it, or they think that this is 502 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: um uh, they it's it's it's creating an unsafe place, 503 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: like it could be a flashpoint for violence, or it 504 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: could it's in the way of the new whole foods 505 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: that our town's getting. So let's get rid of this monument. 506 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: So they can do this stuff unless the state has said, 507 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: you guys can't move those things. This is where the 508 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: state and you guys can't move these monuments, even on 509 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: city land right right. So there's there's been I think 510 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: in Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, UM at the very least, and 511 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,479 Speaker 1: I think several other states UM they've have have passed 512 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: these laws that say you can't, you can't remove these things. 513 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: So some states have had or some cities have had 514 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: to get creative where their will has continued. Their desire 515 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: to take these statues down has continued even after the 516 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: states that they can't. So the city of Memphis, which 517 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: had a couple of statues that wanted to take down, 518 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: one of Robert E. Lee and one of one of 519 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: Nathan No, they're not touching that one of Nathan Bedford Forest, 520 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: who was one of the early leaders of the clan Um. 521 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: They wanted these these statues taken down, but they couldn't 522 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: take them down because they resolved to take them down 523 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: after Tennessee passed its protection law. Well, the city of 524 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: Memphis sold the land that those two statues were onto 525 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: a nonprofit, and the nonprofit just immediately took them down 526 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: to work around. So, as I mentioned before the break, 527 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: we talked about the the lost cause narrative, and the 528 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: flip side of that legally is the equal protection argument. 529 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: So we're talking about the fourteenth Amendment, ratified in eighteen 530 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: sixty eight to grant citizenship and equal rights two former slaves. UH. 531 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 1: And this, to be clear, has not been used successfully 532 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: yet in court as an argument to have a statue removed, 533 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: but it is what groups like the a c l 534 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: U or UH does, the Southern Poverty Law Center, they 535 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: actually argue cases like this probably, I'm sure this is 536 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: what they would try to use, most likely as a 537 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: legal argument or a tactic at least to say that 538 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: this isn't right, because basically what it means is what 539 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: you were saying earlier, is it would be it would 540 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: be under the guys that this was erected as an 541 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: expression of white supremacy, and that's why it was erected, 542 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: That's why it's there. States supported racism that's still there 543 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: to make people feel unequal in the fourteenth Amendment says 544 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: we can't do that. Yeah, that's the that's the approach 545 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: that there will be some test case at some point 546 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: in the next year two that will make it to 547 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. So the Supreme Court will probably rule 548 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: on that, and then that will either open the floodgates 549 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: or shut down that legal argument one way or another. 550 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: What's interesting to me, though, is that historians are probably 551 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: going to come into these lawsuits. Right Like, if you 552 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: ask just about any professional historian what started the Civil War, 553 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: the consensus is and has been for a long time 554 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: that it was slavery. That all the other stuff, the 555 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: ability to succeed, states rights, um, hatred of Lincoln, all 556 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: of these other things are are follow slavery, the the 557 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: South's um desire to continue aus as slave based economy. Right. Um, 558 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: If you ask the general public what caused the Civil War, 559 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: apparently something like forty percent will tell you that it 560 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: was secession, and only like will say slavery. So here's 561 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: here's the problem with that. This is part of a 562 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: kind of a larger trend that we've been seeing the 563 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: last like five years or so maybe less, where there's 564 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: just been a loss of faith in expertise, right where 565 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: like the people who we used to turn to for answers, 566 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: we we have just kind of tossed to the wayside, 567 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: and so just shut up. We don't want to hear 568 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: what you have to say any longer. We'll will decide 569 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: what's true on our own, and when that happens with 570 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: enough people, then history has a chance of being rewritten 571 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: just by just by sentiment. Hey can I have nothing 572 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: to do with reality, But everybody can decide that they're 573 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: going to collectively remember things a certain way, and brother, 574 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: that's history. That becomes history, whether it's fact based history 575 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: or revisionist history or not. And that's a that's a problem. 576 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: Like we have to remember history, whether it is enjoyable, 577 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: whether it's um something that it stands as a cautionary tale, 578 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: whether it's something that is painful, whether it's something that's inspiring. 579 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: We have to remember our history. We just have to, 580 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: or else we're gonna lose a lot of valuable lessons. 581 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: The question that still remains is whether we have to 582 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: remember that history in through monuments and statues or if 583 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: we can in other ways. So it's weird. There's a 584 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: defensive history, but there's also a loss of faith in 585 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: historians and and their reading of history. It's pretty interesting. 586 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: It's a bizarre and it's a weird place to be 587 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: right now here in the States. It is. And that's 588 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: why I'd never buy the you're a racing history argument 589 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: because it's not like these are. It's not like the 590 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: Civil War placke that just says this thing happened here. 591 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: Like to me, that is a historical marker, that just 592 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: says this, this action took place. It's not a monument 593 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: glorifying the thing. Yeah, there's just this. There's a monument 594 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: in Rossville, Georgia, which is close to Andersonville, South Carolina, 595 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: and it's a it's a monument to a guy named 596 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: Henry Wors who was one of the few executed war 597 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: criminals from the Confederacy. He ran Andersonville Prison and um 598 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: basically ran like a concentration camp, and he was executed 599 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: by the North. Publicly, he was he was hanged, and 600 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: very quickly, within a couple of decades UM, I think 601 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: the Daughters of the Confederacy UH erected this monument to 602 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: him and basically explained that he had been unfairly tried, 603 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: that evidence against him had been faked, and that he 604 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: was actually a war hero, not a war criminal. Yeah, 605 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: so that's kind of like not the neutral plaque that 606 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: you're talking about. It's the the antithesis of that. Well, 607 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: I certainly don't have the answers. It's a complicated thing. 608 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: But and there's so many of these and things, and 609 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: you know that there's the whole can of worms argument 610 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: that like do we then where where does it stop? 611 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: Do we blast off the face of Stone Mountain or 612 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: or Mountain rot more people think we should? Yeah, so 613 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: stone Mountain one for sure, Yeah, yeah, Or where does 614 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: it stop with the founding fathers because at the time 615 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: some of them on slaves and this and that. Um, 616 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't purport to have the answers. I just my 617 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: my advice would be to encourage people to just for 618 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: a moment, to think about to walk in someone else's 619 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: shoes and think about what how some of these monuments 620 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: might make you feel. In twenty thousand eighteen, that's the 621 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: way in the future in two thousand eighteen, just maybe 622 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: step outside yourself for a minute and walk in someone 623 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: else's shoes. That's just Uncle Chuck's advice. I think it's 624 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: good advice no matter what. And I think what this 625 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: is is a symptom of the need to a society 626 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: that needs to heal and is not healing in productive 627 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: ways right now? Ye what I think? Well, I don't 628 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: have the answers either, though I certainly don't purport to. 629 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: So I agree with you on that. I look forward 630 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: to hearing all sides and email. Yeah, no death threats, please, 631 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: no death threats. Oh quickly. We should talk about very 632 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: famously in the Iraq War, when Saddam Hussein's statue was 633 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: toppled on television, uh, And there was always a lot 634 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: of speculation like this really reeks of something America cooked 635 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: up as a bit of a rara thing um, and 636 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: apparently Pro Publica looked into it along with the in 637 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,439 Speaker 1: the New Yorker magazine was where the piece was said. 638 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: It was a crowd of Iraqis and it was it 639 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: happened to be a statue in front of the Palestine 640 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: Palestine Hotel, which is where a lot of the journalists were, 641 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: so that's why it got the coverage. And they there 642 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: were Americains and they were saying, hey, can we have 643 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: that sledgehammer? Can we have a little help? Can we 644 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: use that crane on that humby Now that we think 645 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: about what you guys, just go ahead and do it 646 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: for it. Well, apparently there was an official request submitted 647 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: by the army sergeant saying, hey, they want to use 648 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: our crane. Can we do this? And they got to 649 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: go ahead to do it. So that is the party 650 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: line story at least. Yeah, take it or leave it. Yeah, 651 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: but very indelible image. You know when that statue was 652 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: taken down, Oh yeah, it definitely was, like it felt 653 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: pretty hard. And Saddam was still alive at the time too, 654 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: which made it even more shocking. He's hiding in a hole. 655 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: Kind of an interesting time, like I said, to be 656 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: in America, weird, weird time. Well, I've seen other people 657 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: call for saying like maybe don't take it down, Maybe 658 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: erect another statue next to Roberty Lee of Rosa Parks 659 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: or something, and maybe add to the stone Mountain my 660 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: hum it and make it a history of it of Atlanta, 661 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: and add Martin Luther King to it and make it 662 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: more of a diorama and more inclusive. So it's I've 663 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,959 Speaker 1: seen arguments all over the place with all kinds of suggestions, 664 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: because with fifteen hundred Confederate markers of some kind, I 665 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: mean that's a lot of it's a lot of stuff, 666 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: a lot of statues to balance things out that we'd 667 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: have to erect that kind of thing well, or a 668 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: lot of statues to tear down. Um. I mean, obviously 669 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: it's going to come down to and should come down to, 670 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: whatever they want to do locally. But we have one 671 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: right here indicator Georgia still you know which one. I 672 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: can't remember the name of it, but it's right there 673 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: in the town square. And there there's been a lot 674 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: of talk in the obviously the last couple of years 675 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: about getting rid of that. So yeah, and then also 676 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: like some people dig in so much to leave that 677 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: statue there, they take it down and then a week later, like, 678 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,399 Speaker 1: is your life really changed materially? Is it that big 679 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,839 Speaker 1: of a deal that that's not there anymore? I don't know. 680 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think this whole I think this 681 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: is all just innuendo, nuance, um and illusion and allegory 682 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: and nobody's really talking about where most people aren't talking 683 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: about what's really being discussed here. It's it's weird, weird time, man, 684 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: such a strange time. It's a sad time for America, 685 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: but it's also a very hopeful time too, if you 686 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: really think about it in the right way, it is 687 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: and you know what this uh, I know this is 688 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: gonna be a lightning round in some ways, but I 689 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: am happy we're a part of this conversation in some way. 690 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: Nice again, No death threats, please everyone, No one likes 691 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: to get those. Put yourself in our shoes. You wouldn't 692 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: like getting them. If you want to know more about 693 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: Confederate monuments, monuments in general, and possibly removing them, go 694 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: type those words into the search bar how stuff works. 695 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: That common will bring up the article. And since I 696 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,439 Speaker 1: said that it's time for a listener mail, I'm gonna 697 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: call this, um, well, this one's pretty current, so I'm 698 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: gonna call this current clearing up of accordion definition. Oh boy, 699 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: that's good choice, Chuck. Okay, so this is a day 700 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: or too late, guys, But I just had a chance 701 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: to listen to the Great Mary Celeste episode, and I 702 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: figured i'd be remis if I didn't heed the call 703 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: of the alluring weird Al Yankovic shout out, because everyone 704 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: loves weird Oult. So it now comes apart where I 705 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: say that I don't actually know anything about accordions, but 706 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: I think Josh pretty much nailed it the second time through. 707 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: According to my sources, in general, melodeon is an accordion 708 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: with buttons, and an accordion technically known as a piano 709 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: accordion is an accordion with piano keys, not unlike the 710 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: style played by both Alfred and Frankie Yankovic. No relation, 711 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: believe it or not, No way, Uh yeah. Basically all 712 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: melodions are accordions, but not all accordions or melodians, So that, 713 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, is how melodians work. Not to be 714 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: confused with the concertina pictured here. And that is the 715 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: literal handheld thing that you like, I might think of 716 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: an old Italian man playing in the eighteen hundreds that 717 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,439 Speaker 1: you just there are no there may be, but it's 718 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: it's a squeeze box, like the who talked about mom 719 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 1: has got a squeeze box. Yeah, and that is from anonymous? 720 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: Is it really? You're not gonna say who is from? 721 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: Wow that anonymous? Have no idea who it's from. It's 722 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: just some some weird, weird al fan. That's funny. No. 723 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: My My exclamation of surprise was that Alfred and Frankie 724 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:50,359 Speaker 1: Yankovic have no relation to weird Al Yankovic. That's beyond bizarre. Yeah, 725 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: I not don't even know who Alfred and Frankie Ankovi 726 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: car I don't either, but surely every Yankovics related to 727 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: weird Al Yankovic. Right, Yeah, but I also have a 728 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: feeling that like they're eight percent of Yankovic's play the accordion. 729 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: All right, well, weird Al, please please, as is custom, 730 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: we end every episode like this, please get in touch 731 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: with us and let us know how you're doing. Okay, 732 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: if you're weird Al Yankovic and you want to get 733 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: in touch with us, you can tweet to us. I'm 734 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: at josh um Clark and you can also hit up 735 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: the official s Y s K podcast one. You can 736 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: join Chuck on Facebook dot com, slash Charles W. Chuck 737 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: Bryant or slash stuff you Should Know either one. You 738 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: can also send us an email and Jerry too to 739 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,760 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at how Stuff Works dot com, and weird 740 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,440 Speaker 1: Al join us as always at our home on the web, 741 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this 742 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,720 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, is it how Stuff Works 743 00:46:50,719 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: dot com