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Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this

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Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me

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Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot

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Speaker 1: fm to get started.

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Speaker 2: On this week's episode in her space. I have chatted

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Speaker 2: with family members or friends about some of these topics

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Speaker 2: and they are so confused. And I know there are

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Speaker 2: some folks that are like, I'm overwhelmed. I don't really know,

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Speaker 2: like this is too much. Those are the things that

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Speaker 2: I've heard people say, and so I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about and drive home. Why is it important for us

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Speaker 2: to be privy to this information and to also have

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Speaker 2: these conversations because some people may miss the importance and think, oh,

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Speaker 2: well that relates to those people there. But I love

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Speaker 2: to just drive home, like why is this important?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's important because everybody knows and probably loves someone

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Speaker 3: who's not heterosexual or who's not his gender now rather

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Speaker 3: they know that they're not heterosexual, or rather they know

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Speaker 3: that they're not his gender.

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Speaker 4: That's we don't know that far been.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, everyone and everyone now knows someone is queer

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Speaker 3: rather that it's in relation to gender or in relation

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Speaker 3: to sexual identity. And so that's why it's important because

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Speaker 3: we have so many young people, specifically young queer people

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Speaker 3: who are homeless. Because Welcome to her Space, a podcast

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Speaker 3: dedicated to uplifting women like you, we're your posts doctor

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Speaker 3: Dominiue Broussard, a college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 2: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 2: fibroids to fake friends and create a safe space where

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Speaker 2: black women can.

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Speaker 4: Just be.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 3: So our quote of the day, one of the ways

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Speaker 3: that you can work for freedom is to change your

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Speaker 3: mind and to move away from the space of binaries,

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Speaker 3: of simplistic either ors and to be able to look

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Speaker 3: at the picture that offers us complexity.

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Speaker 4: And that quote comes from Bell Hooks.

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Speaker 5: That was an amazing quote.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we're going to have to dive in

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Speaker 2: a little deeper and figure out what does that mean

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Speaker 2: to me?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: But before we get into that, all right, lady, you

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Speaker 2: already know it's about to go down. Today we are

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Speaker 2: covering a very important topic that can potentially come with

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Speaker 2: a lot of controversy, trauma, and ignorance. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: being black and queer. Do you have questions about the

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Speaker 2: LGBT community? Have you struggled with the intersections of your identity?

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Speaker 2: Today we have a special guest on the show, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Janina Garrett Walker, an Associate professor in the Department of

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Speaker 2: Psychology at the University of San Francisco. Doctor Garrett Walker

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Speaker 2: is a developmental psychologist whose research focuses on the multiple

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Speaker 2: identity development for black, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender LGBT

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Speaker 2: emerging adults. She also implemented a university wide Check Your

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Speaker 2: Privileged campaign that sought to raise student, faculty, and staff

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Speaker 2: awareness around social inequalities and privilege. The campaign also went

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Speaker 2: viral and has been implemented at universities from Canada to

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Speaker 2: New Zealand. Doctor Garrett Walker is most interested in the

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Speaker 2: ways in which black LGBT young adults navigate and negotiate

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Speaker 2: social mode. Our originalization say that five times real best.

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Speaker 2: And there are multiple communities through negative religious rhetoric, racism, homophobia, transphobia,

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Speaker 2: and hetero sexism. And we have her here in her

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Speaker 2: space to get her gems and insight just for you.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to her space, Janina, thank you, thank you for

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Speaker 2: having me. You are so welcome. We're so excited. And

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Speaker 2: I'd love for Don to just reread that quote of

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Speaker 2: the day and if we can just talk about what

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Speaker 2: that means for us. I think that would be really

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Speaker 2: really helpful to our listeners here. That was a powerful

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Speaker 2: quote from Bill Hooks.

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Speaker 4: It really is.

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Speaker 3: And Bell Hooks comes up with so many gems and

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Speaker 3: so it was hard trying to find one that really

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Speaker 3: fit and really kind of captured what we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about today. So one more time, the quote is

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Speaker 3: one of the ways that you can work for freedom

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Speaker 3: is to change your mind and to move away from

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Speaker 3: the space of binaries, of simplistic either ors and to

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Speaker 3: be able to look at the picture that offers us complexity. Janina,

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Speaker 3: We're gonna throward to you. When you hear that quote,

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Speaker 3: what you what comes to mind for you?

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Speaker 4: Yes, girl, thank you. Like, that's really the first thing

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Speaker 4: that comes to my mind.

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Speaker 3: Because as a society, we are stuck in binary thinking

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Speaker 3: about everything male, female, night, day, you know, everything everything

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Speaker 3: is is a binary, but we often forget about everything

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Speaker 3: that happens in the middle. And so much happens in

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Speaker 3: the middle. You know, Yes, there's morning and there's night,

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Speaker 3: but like what about the afternoon, what about dusk?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: Uh, and we don't We don't spend enough time living

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Speaker 3: in that middle section. And so I think that Bell

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Speaker 3: Hooks is really trying to get people to understand that

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Speaker 3: the binaries is not where we actually reach freedom. We

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Speaker 3: reach freedom where we where we understand the complexity of

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Speaker 3: the lived experience and when we can embrace things.

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Speaker 4: That we have actually put out on the binaries.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of like my little quick, little plug for

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Speaker 3: deconstructing the binary, which we could talk about later as

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Speaker 3: we actually go through all this stuff about the queer community,

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Speaker 3: because I think that's one of the main things we

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Speaker 3: talk about in the queer community is deconstructing the binary.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Okay, so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to dive right into that, but we

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Speaker 3: have an agenda that we want to try to follow

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Speaker 3: so and I.

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Speaker 4: Can't even I don't even I can't even be if

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Speaker 4: we all want to dive into.

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Speaker 6: And again, look, if we're going to talk about it,

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Speaker 6: deconstructing the binary.

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Speaker 4: Okay, oh good, okay.

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Speaker 5: For that, that's good.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well let's dive in. So when when it

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Speaker 3: comes to deconstructing the binary, for those of us that

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Speaker 3: might not be familiar with what that really needs, can

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Speaker 3: you tell us a little bit more about what that

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Speaker 3: really looks like?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So, I think in the context of this conversation when

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Speaker 3: we talk about binary, and I think what Belle Hugs

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Speaker 3: is even saying, is this idea that people are male

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Speaker 3: or female, people are gay or straight, people are man

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Speaker 3: or woman, people are masculine or feminine.

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Speaker 4: But that's not like we don't really live in.

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Speaker 3: That symbol of a world. The world is far more

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Speaker 3: complex than that. And when we actually polarize each other,

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Speaker 3: we do more damage that way, because then we set

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Speaker 3: these limited expectations onto each other about.

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Speaker 6: Where people are quote unquote supposed to.

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Speaker 3: Land on this binary scale, when actually the majority of

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Speaker 3: us aren't at polar opposite end. So if we just

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Speaker 3: take masculinity and femininity for one second, you know, no

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Speaker 3: one is really all masculine or all feminine in different ways.

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Speaker 3: We all vimit masculinity and femininity in different ways depending

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Speaker 3: on context, depending on who we're around. And so I

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Speaker 3: just think that, you know, the binary just really means

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Speaker 3: stop putting people, or I actould say, deconstructing the binary

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Speaker 3: means stop putting people on polar opposite ends of socially

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Speaker 3: constructed concepts. When you explain it like that, it makes

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Speaker 3: me think about the amount of depression, trauma, and anxiety

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Speaker 3: that can come up for people when they're trying to

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Speaker 3: force themselves into a binary. Absolutely, and we do see

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Speaker 3: that a lot, when people aren't able to live in

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Speaker 3: their true authentic cells. We know that that can cause trauma,

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Speaker 3: and we also know that that can cause depression. And

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Speaker 3: that's why there's a strong call, I would say, from

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Speaker 3: kind of queer advocates and activists to really let go

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Speaker 3: of the.

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Speaker 4: Binary because need more damage than it is doing good.

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Speaker 3: And it's not only doing any damage to LGBT pupils,

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Speaker 3: there's also doing damage to gender and.

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Speaker 4: As well.

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Speaker 2: Now, Janina, I definitely I want to take a step

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Speaker 2: back really quickly, and I just want to say that

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Speaker 2: I'm being very transparent and honest right now and saying

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Speaker 2: that this I'm coming from a place of I want

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Speaker 2: to say, well, intentions, but also ignorance because based on

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Speaker 2: the way that I grew up, based on the way

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Speaker 2: that you know, growing up in the church.

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Speaker 5: You know how that goes. You know how that goes.

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Speaker 5: That's all I have to say right there.

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Speaker 2: I don't even have to lead in with anything else

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Speaker 2: but growing up in church and hearing certain things about

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Speaker 2: how we're supposed to live and how life is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be. I think this is definitely a new way

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Speaker 2: of thinking for me and a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: I know. So I would love to dive into you know,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the common terminology used in the

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Speaker 2: LGBT community or in the academic community that our listeners

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Speaker 2: should be aware of before we get deep, because we're

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Speaker 2: about to go in deep, y'all.

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Speaker 5: But I want to make sure that everyone's on the.

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Speaker 2: Same page and they understand, like, you know, what cys

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Speaker 2: gender might be, what are pronouns and things of that nature,

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Speaker 2: so that we can kind of make sure everyone's on

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Speaker 2: the same plane field as.

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Speaker 5: We do go into this deep, deep conversation, right right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can go through some terminology. So I'll

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Speaker 3: start with heteronormativity. So hetero normativity is the assumption that

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Speaker 3: everyone is heterosexual.

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Speaker 4: I think that, you know, kind of just going.

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Speaker 3: On with what you said about religion and just to

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Speaker 3: the Black community, there's this like unspoken yet very spoken

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Speaker 3: rule that everyone is going to.

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Speaker 4: Be heterosexual, and that's just not the case.

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Speaker 3: And so when we assume that everyone is head of aosexual,

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Speaker 3: we often any radcy experiences of LGBTQ bots who are black.

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Speaker 3: So that would be one another one who reasays gender

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Speaker 3: like you mentioned, that just means that the sex that

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Speaker 3: you were assigned at birth matches the gender that you live.

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Speaker 3: So I know for some people that's like, wait, I don't,

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Speaker 3: I don't get it.

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Speaker 5: I don't, I.

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Speaker 4: Don't know what you mean.

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Speaker 3: I think that this is another juncture where we have

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Speaker 3: the do you construct the social construction of sex?

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Speaker 4: What we are born with?

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Speaker 3: What biological characters I thinks you're born with, separating that

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Speaker 3: from gender, which is the social construction and enhactment of

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Speaker 3: kind of Mannorism behaviors. Way of addressing that society associates

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Speaker 3: with a particular gender that makes.

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Speaker 5: It that does make sense.

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Speaker 2: That's super helpful, although those are probably like the two

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Speaker 2: main ones that folks I feel like will get folks

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Speaker 2: sort of on the same page as we continue the conversation.

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Speaker 3: But what about the pronouns? When people say pronouns are

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Speaker 3: what are they referring to? Yeah, so when people say pronouns,

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Speaker 3: they are really just saying do you want to be

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Speaker 3: referred to as she, her and hers?

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Speaker 4: Do you want to be referred to as he, him

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Speaker 4: and his? Or do you want to be referred to

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Speaker 4: as they? Them? And there are some others that I

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Speaker 4: think are used less frequently.

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Speaker 3: Lets some that are like zizer, which you're really completely

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Speaker 3: subverting in the binary.

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Speaker 4: But that's like a whole other conversation for a whole

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Speaker 4: other podcast. That means we'll have to have you back on.

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Speaker 4: Yes's right, I'm happy to do so.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so that just means do you want to

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Speaker 3: have pronouns that have been associated with womanness or do

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Speaker 3: you want to have pronouns pronouns that are associated with manness?

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Speaker 3: Or do you want gender neutral pronouns like they them,

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Speaker 3: which are not associated with madness or womanness?

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Speaker 2: Now, quick follow up question to that I thought I

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Speaker 2: had the pronouns down and I was like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm learning.

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Speaker 5: I got this.

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Speaker 2: And I met someone and on their name tag they

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Speaker 2: had the pronouns she, her, and I think it was they,

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Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I what is what would that?

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Speaker 2: What would that mean if someone has she, her, and

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Speaker 2: they as the pronoun because that confused me a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Right, So that probably just means that that person.

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Speaker 6: They're comfortable with either of those pronouns.

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Speaker 3: So they don't want pronouns that are associated with madness.

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Speaker 3: So they do not want to heed him and his,

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Speaker 3: but they're totally comfortable with that she, her, and hers,

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Speaker 3: but they're also comfortable with the they and for that person,

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Speaker 3: we don't really know. There's no way for us to

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Speaker 3: know how and why they're comfortable with that, but those

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Speaker 3: are their pronouns, and that's what we're going to roll with.

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Speaker 5: Got you.

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Speaker 2: So if we were to refer to that person, and

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Speaker 2: if we weren't going to call them by name, and

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Speaker 2: let's say that we were going to, you know, ask

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Speaker 2: a question or refer to that person to another individual,

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Speaker 2: I might say, dom, they want to go to X

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Speaker 2: y Z today.

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Speaker 5: That's how we would use those pronouns correctly.

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Speaker 3: Right exactly, And I actually just you know, as a

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Speaker 3: little kind of tip for everyone, I use them pronouns

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Speaker 3: for almost everyone unless someone tells me otherwise, If you

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Speaker 3: have not explicitly told me that your pronouns or she

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Speaker 3: her and hers.

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Speaker 4: Have not explicitly told me that him and his.

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna rock with they because we often make

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Speaker 3: a lot of assumptions about how people are addressed or

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Speaker 3: what we think that their quote unquote body type is like.

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Speaker 6: And unless someone tells me otherwise, I say they them

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Speaker 6: for everyone.

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Speaker 3: Now I have a question, and I don't know if

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Speaker 3: this is something that you'd be able to answer, or

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Speaker 3: if we have to bring in a linguist. So I

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Speaker 3: have friends that speak other languages, and for them in

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Speaker 3: their language, using they is not necessarily a signed to

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Speaker 3: based on like A, based on pronouns like she, him,

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Speaker 3: but mostly use as a form of respect for elders.

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Speaker 4: Or more formal relationships.

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Speaker 3: So has there been any any research or any discussion

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Speaker 3: around how to use pronouns in other languages or if

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Speaker 3: that's even an issue in other languages. So I don't

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Speaker 3: know any research on it, but I know there have

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Speaker 3: been some conversations about it. I think that, let's just say,

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Speaker 3: in some Spanish speaking cultures, we're used to people doing

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Speaker 3: Latino Latina, but there's also the LATINX, which a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are using now in academia, but also in

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Speaker 3: a lot of LATINX queer culture as well. And apparently

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Speaker 3: I don't I can't.

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Speaker 4: Vous for this, so people would have to kind of

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Speaker 4: fact check this.

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Speaker 3: But apparently that has been used for a long time.

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Speaker 3: It's not new, it's just been replained.

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Speaker 4: And I can't speak for.

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Speaker 3: Other languages like French or Arabic or anything else.

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Speaker 4: I really I am not sure.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, we will consult a linguist on that when

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Speaker 3: I think we'll have to. And I think that's one

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Speaker 3: of the things too, is that what makes this so

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Speaker 3: complicated is that there are some things that we don't

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Speaker 3: have the answer to. And so but one thing that

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Speaker 3: I kind of want to shift gears just a little

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Speaker 3: bit and talk about what does it really mean to

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Speaker 3: be queer?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so people use it in a different way. So

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Speaker 4: I think that.

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Speaker 3: Historically queer meant anyone who was different, right, anyone who

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Speaker 3: didn't fall in line with what a society expected, and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't always about sexual orientation.

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Speaker 4: It really could have just been about anything.

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Speaker 3: But what then began to be used as a derogatory

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Speaker 3: term against LGBTQ people to basically signify them as different

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Speaker 3: than heterosexual people because maybe their mannerisms or their behaviors,

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Speaker 3: or their style address or who they wanted to be

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Speaker 3: with it for the rest of their life are who

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Speaker 3: they wanted to have sex with just didn't involve fall

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Speaker 3: in line with heterosexuality or you know, yeah, so it

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Speaker 3: didn't fall in line with that, But it's been reclaimed

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Speaker 3: now and it's been reclaimed. That's kind of an unbrella

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Speaker 3: term to signify anyone still who does not fall within

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Speaker 3: hetero sexism or cis sexism.

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Speaker 4: And so maybe I should define sis sexism.

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Speaker 3: Sinn sexism means that people assume that everyone is sis

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Speaker 3: gender as and really ignores the fact there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who are transgender or people who are

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Speaker 3: non binary. So I could imagine that some that some

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Speaker 3: of our listeners might be a little confused when we

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Speaker 3: when they hear, okay, so we have cis gender, non binary,

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Speaker 3: and transgender. Most people are familiar with transgender, right, and

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Speaker 3: you explain cis gender, what does it mean to be

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Speaker 3: non binary or non conforming? So as we started a

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Speaker 3: conversation about the binary right and how it limits us,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of people now who are saying, no,

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Speaker 3: I don't not identify.

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Speaker 4: As a man or a woman.

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Speaker 6: I say, that's the whole system.

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Speaker 4: The whole system is broken.

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Speaker 3: I don't want a part of taking it because they

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Speaker 3: feel that it does not fit their lived experience.

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Speaker 6: Now, for some people it might be because they feel

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Speaker 6: like they embody.

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Speaker 3: A lot of madness and a lot of womanness and

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Speaker 3: for them, picking anyone doesn't make sense. Or you could

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Speaker 3: be a person who's like I don't really embody any

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Speaker 3: madness or any womanness.

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Speaker 4: And I exist in my own kind of way.

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Speaker 5: That makes sense, that makes perfect sense. And I feel like,

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Speaker 5: I know, for me, in my journey, I've become more.

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Speaker 2: Aware of, you know, just different identities since I moved

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Speaker 2: to San Francisco, because San Francisco tends to be a

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Speaker 2: very progressive city in some regards, and coming from the

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Speaker 2: East Coast, I have chatted with family members or friends

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Speaker 2: about some of these topics and they are so confused.

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Speaker 2: And I know there are some folks that are like

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Speaker 2: I'm overwhelmed. I don't really know, like this is too much.

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Speaker 2: Those are the things I've heard people say, and so

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about and drive home. Why is

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Speaker 2: it important for us to be privy to this information

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Speaker 2: and to also have these conversations because some people may

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Speaker 2: miss the importance and think, oh, well that relates to

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Speaker 2: those people over there. But I love to just drive home,

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Speaker 2: like why is this important?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's important because everybody knows and probably loves someone

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Speaker 3: who's not heterosexual or who's not his gender. Now, rather

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Speaker 3: they know that they're not heterosexual, or rather they know

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Speaker 3: that they're not his gender.

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Speaker 4: That's we don't know that part.

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Speaker 3: But trust me everyone, Oh yeah, everyone, now someone is queer,

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Speaker 3: rather that it's in relation to gender or in relation

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Speaker 3: to sexual identity. And so that's why it's important because

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Speaker 3: we have so many young people, specifically young queer people,

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Speaker 3: who are homeless because their parents kick them out and

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Speaker 3: they have nowhere to go. They're living on the streets, and.

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Speaker 4: We're not having that conversation.

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Speaker 3: We're not talking about how many black parents just own

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Speaker 3: their black children because they don't fit within a heteronormative

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Speaker 3: expectation that has been placed upon them.

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Speaker 4: That's why it's important.

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Speaker 3: It's important because LGBTQ youth have higher rates of suicidal

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Speaker 3: ideation than almost any other group. And that's why it's important,

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Speaker 3: because we need to ensure that there are heterosexual, incisive

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Speaker 3: gender accomplices out here who are setting up and really

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Speaker 3: supporting black people, particularly believe.

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Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more. And I remember

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Speaker 2: when I was in high school back in the day.

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Speaker 2: You know, we all know how the gay community, and

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Speaker 2: like the LGBT community was sort of seen back in

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Speaker 2: the day where people make gay jokes and it was

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Speaker 2: like this running joke, even if and I know people

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Speaker 2: that even were gayer, and they also made the jokes

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Speaker 2: because it was like, Okay, this is like the cool thing.

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Speaker 2: And I remember having a close family member who came

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Speaker 2: out to me, and I knew that he was gay

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Speaker 2: for years, but and I get a little emotional just

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Speaker 2: speaking about it, but I remember him being so fearful,

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Speaker 2: and I remember his dad disowning him because he came

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Speaker 2: out and his dad was like this macho, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, really manly man. And it didn't take for me.

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Speaker 2: It took me loving someone that identified that way and

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Speaker 2: saw how the world treated them to realize like, oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, this is this is a problem, Like we

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Speaker 2: have to communicate for our brothers and sisters and the

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Speaker 2: people that we love to make sure that they can

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Speaker 2: work in the world and just be themselves and not

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Speaker 2: be target it.

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Speaker 3: Like why I think that what happens is oftentimes when

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Speaker 3: we it takes us having an interaction, having a relationship

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Speaker 3: with someone who has an identity different from us for

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Speaker 3: us to really understand and fully empathize.

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Speaker 4: And then really get on board with let me be

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Speaker 4: a good ally.

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Speaker 3: Or I like this term Janina used a good accomplice

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Speaker 3: and really advocate and stand up.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I'd love to just transition quickly and talk

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Speaker 2: about We touched on its briefly, but we talked about religion, right,

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Speaker 2: and I'd love to talk about the role of religion.

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Speaker 5: In the lives of black LGBT populations because.

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Speaker 2: I know, like, if you're in the black community and

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Speaker 2: you were raised in church, we know the things that

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Speaker 2: we've heard growing up. And even though there were people

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Speaker 2: in church that may have identified as one of these identities,

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Speaker 2: that was something that was shunned and they had to

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Speaker 2: kind of keep it quiet and they Yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: just want to dive into that, like, what is the

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Speaker 2: role of religion in office?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Religion?

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Speaker 3: Jadina and I had a couple of conversations online about this,

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Speaker 3: So yes, I'm ready.

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Speaker 4: I'm ready for you.

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Speaker 5: To dive in.

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Speaker 3: Are y'all viewers ready for the real because I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: keep it real.

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Speaker 4: That's you want me to be. Well, this is why,

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Speaker 4: this is why we said.

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Speaker 3: This is why I said, like, I want Jamina on

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Speaker 3: here because I know you're going to keep it real

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Speaker 3: and we want you to keep it real.

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Speaker 4: We're ready for you to go there.

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Speaker 2: And even if people have different perspectives, it's important, I think,

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Speaker 2: to realize that there are other perspectives that are out there.

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Speaker 2: You should at least be open minded enough to consider

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Speaker 2: other perspectives.

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Speaker 5: And even if you don't agree, just hear it out.

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Speaker 3: You know, yes, absolutely I agree. So here's the thing

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Speaker 3: about religion and queer communities.

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Speaker 4: Religion. Okay, let's talk about religion for black people.

445
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 3: I think we all know that religion sins at the

446
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: center of.

447
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: The black community. Right It is a stronghold.

448
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: It has seen us through slavery, through Jim Crow, through

449
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 3: the civil rights.

450
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 4: Movement to today.

451
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: We have a whole other conversation about colonization and how

452
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: we got there.

453
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 4: Okay, that's a whole other.

454
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 5: Come, that's another episode right there.

455
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: But well, let's take what we got. Okay, we have Christianity,

456
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: which is, like most black people in the United States

457
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: of America a Christian although we do have a good number

458
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: of people who.

459
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 6: Are also Muslim, but most, I would say, are Christians.

460
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: And so, just as black people, rather you're says gender, transgender, heterosexual,

461
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: or queer, you you most likely were raised with it

462
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: and with it comes lots of positivity. You know, when

463
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 3: you stress, you feel like you can call on God,

464
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: you can call on Jesus. It gives you a sense

465
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 3: of peace.

466
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 4: Right. A lot of people have.

467
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: Used religious religion for positive Kobe mechanisms to decrease anxiety.

468
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of ways in which religion has been positive. However,

469
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: for queer people, it's very complicated because on one hand,

470
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 3: they're raised in the Black Church and they feel all

471
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: this positivity. They feel that community that you get when

472
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: you go to church on Sunday morning, and when you

473
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: also go to Sunday School, and when you go to

474
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: vacation Bible school, and when you go to choir earth, well,

475
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 3: you know, church, the fish fry, right, all of that,

476
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: and so they feel that connection in that community. But

477
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 3: then on the other hand, like you said, there's a

478
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: lot of negative religious rhetoric that you hear in relation

479
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: to LGBTQ people, and for any gay person who sits

480
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: in the church where the pastor or the congregation has

481
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: anti queer rhetoric or assumptions or belief that is going

482
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: to do damage to them. And so it's a complicated

483
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: situation and different people deal with it in different ways.

484
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: Some queer black people will make the decision to just.

485
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 4: Stay in the church and conceal.

486
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: Their sexual identity or conceal their gender identity and never

487
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: actually really kind of tell anyone or presented.

488
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: Other people will say, I'm so cool off of this.

489
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: I cannot be within a space that is going to

490
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: oppress me, and they make the choice to leave religious

491
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: institutions altogether.

492
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: And then there's.

493
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 3: Another set of people who kind of find a way

494
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: to compartmentalize, Like people know that I'm gay at church,

495
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 3: but they're not really messed with me. I'm gonna show

496
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: up to church and I'm gonna live my church life.

497
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: And then I'm also going to live my two authentic

498
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: life outside of the church. And so different people deal

499
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: with it in a lot of different ways. And you know,

500
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: it's just unfortunate that some people do have to leave

501
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: their religious institution if it feels good to them, right

502
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: like they No one should be forced to leave with

503
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: a community that feels good to them because people don't

504
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: love them for who they are, and especially when love

505
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: is the root of Christianity, right like you forget about that.

506
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: People forget that part.

507
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's complicated to say the least religion is

508
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 3: complicated black people.

509
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is that.

510
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the word that kept coming up as

511
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: you were talking. Is complicated, Like damn, Like, how is

512
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: it that.

513
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 4: Your cope?

514
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: You're trying to find ways to cope, and sometimes it's

515
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: really hard to find healthy coping mechanism. And you find

516
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: a healthy coping mechanism, then it ends up being the oppressor.

517
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: M hm. And so now what you like, what are

518
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: you left with? What are you supposed to do? At

519
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 4: that point?

520
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: It's like a toxic relationship with good qualities, you know,

521
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: going back for the good stuff, but in the bad

522
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: times they're pretty bad.

523
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, that definitely sounds complicated. I can only imagine.

524
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the thing about religion is that religion is

525
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: not something that you only experience within the edifice of

526
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: the religious institution, right Like, you go to the church

527
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: and you hear this, But when your grandma's in there,

528
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: and your cousins are in there, and your parents are

529
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: in there, and your siblings are in there, when you

530
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: leave from there and you go home for Sunday dinner

531
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 3: or the family reunion or just coming home from school,

532
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: you're going to continue to.

533
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 4: Hear that negative religious rhetory.

534
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: Even outside of the church, right Like, those messages follow

535
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: people everywhere they go because the Black church has such

536
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 3: a stronghold on the Black community.

537
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 5: That's a really good point.

538
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: And I think just transitioning to like war relationships, what

539
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: about well, what do you notice in regards to relationship

540
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: between heterosxual black women and black queer women. Is there

541
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: anything that stands out in particular to you or do

542
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: you feel that there's like an ally ship there in general?

543
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 5: So, I mean that should be an our relationship.

544
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: Right, but we know that that's not only the case.

545
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 4: Of course, there will be some black women.

546
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 3: Who are gonna stand in solidarity with black queer women,

547
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: but there's also going to be a lot of them

548
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: don't and they're not going to because of one religion.

549
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: Black women are the most religious group in the country,

550
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: and so the black women in the most religious group

551
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: in the country, they're more likely to maintain anti queer

552
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: thoughts and beliefs. And also too, black women oftentimes don't

553
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: check their black male partners, right, the heterosexual black women

554
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: has to check their male partners who are homophobic. So

555
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: you got a man who's out there talking about oh,

556
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: that's shits hell o gay excuse my language, sorry, use

557
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: whatever language.

558
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: Real color explicit podcasted are.

559
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you have male partners or brothers or uncles

560
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: who are out here, you know, with their homophobic language,

561
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: you need to check them, especially if you call yourself

562
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: having a gay man who's your best friend?

563
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: Right, So, like, that's always an issue that I have,

564
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: is the black woman.

565
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: Who has her one gay male best friend because he

566
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 3: helps her with her fashion.

567
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: He eats her face.

568
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: But he still like have anti gay feelings and beliefs,

569
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: or she's uncomped around every other gay man, or she's

570
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: uncomped around every other gay woman.

571
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 4: That's not your best friend, girl, you are using him?

572
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: Who aren't using him? And so you know, I just

573
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: think that black women can do better. But black women

574
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: can only do better, you know, the heterosexual Black women

575
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: can only do better if they are willing to separate

576
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: themselves from the head.

577
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 4: Of less and the patriarchy.

578
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: Which is rooted in the homophobia and the antiquerness.

579
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: Because that's really what it boils down to.

580
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, that was a whole. That was a mouthful,

581
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: Like who you got me stumped? So what I'm hearing

582
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: then is that if if black heterosexual women really want

583
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: to be good allies, we have to turn or are

584
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: you saying we have to turn against our black male partners?

585
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 4: No, you do. You should not try against your man. Girl.

586
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 5: Keep your man, girl, keep your man.

587
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: But you need to hold that man accountable. Right, those

588
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: are two different things. I'm not saying to let your

589
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: man go. What I'm saying is you need to hold

590
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: him accountable if he's engaging in language that is problematic

591
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: and and and let's let's kind of like back it

592
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: up something to give a very concrete example. Let's say

593
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: there's a heterosexual couple and they have a child who's

594
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: a big gender not conforming, who doesn't conform to the

595
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: limited confines of maleness or madness or womanis or girlness

596
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: or boyness.

597
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: Right, and let's just say.

598
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: That male partner is like being on there, Let's just

599
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: say it's a boy, because we know.

600
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 4: That most of the problem come between black man and

601
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: black boys.

602
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 5: Right.

603
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: So let's say there's a young boy, a young child

604
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: who's a signed male at birth. Trying to make sure

605
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: I use a like real approgrim language. So there's a

606
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: there's a father and a child who is a signed

607
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 3: male at birth, and he engages in more feminine play

608
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: and behaviors. He wants to wear pink, he wants to

609
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: wear dresses, he wants to play with Barbie dolls, he

610
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: wants to nails paint it. You're gonna let your man

611
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: beat on your son because of this?

612
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 6: This child is three, let's just say three. Right, You're

613
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 6: gonna keep letting him do that?

614
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: Or are you gonna challenge him to realize that that's

615
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: a problematic? Right?

616
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: Those are those are the concrete examples that I'm talking

617
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: about where black women can set being an Internet. Now

618
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: what if that what if? The what if the roles

619
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: are reversed? So I know we want the women, we

620
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: want the women to be better allies. But what if

621
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: what if it's the man who may notice. Because we

622
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: do have some male listeners out there, and they notice

623
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 3: that their female partner is not what's the word I

624
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: want to use, let's say, let's just call it what

625
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: it is. The female their female partner is homophobic.

626
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: Mm hm, didn't need to call her. I mean, here's

627
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 4: the thing.

628
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 6: At the end of the day, black people need to

629
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 6: black people.

630
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: If there is any one black person who is not

631
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: supporting all other black people, they need to be held accountable.

632
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 4: So to me, I.

633
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: Don't care if you're a man or women. I don't

634
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: if you're straight or gay. If you're doing harm to

635
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: another person because you are stuck within the rigid norms

636
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: and expectations that society has set for.

637
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: And if you really wanted to be specific.

638
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: That white society has set for, then you need to

639
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: be held accountable.

640
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 6: Right, So he should then check her she's the one.

641
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 4: Doing the harm, got it? Okay?

642
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: So we all need to be holding each other accountable,

643
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: and we all need to be working on being better

644
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: allies for each other, because I get I mean, I

645
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: think the thing is is that.

646
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, we.

647
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: If one of us isn't doing well, then none of

648
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: us are doing well. And that's what Bell Hooks is

649
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: talking about. I mean not in that quote specifically, but

650
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: if you really read any of her words, she's really

651
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 3: talking about how we have to all love on each other,

652
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: regardless of if we are all the same gender, all

653
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: the same sexuary or if we all have a variety

654
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: of diversity and complexity of all the combinations of genders

655
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: and sexualities.

656
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 4: We have to love each other.

657
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: We have to support each other because that's really the

658
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 3: only way that black people are going to be free.

659
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 3: We got enough impression coming from all these other groups.

660
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 4: We don't meet it within our own. We really don't.

661
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 4: All right, So, I think we have one more question.

662
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 3: Earlier in your intro, we mentioned that you started the

663
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: Check Your Privilege campaign. So before we kind of wrap up,

664
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 3: or actually not wrap up, we have a whole nother

665
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 3: quick segment of a fun segment to take you to.

666
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 3: But before we dive into that, we want you to

667
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: tell us a little bit about the.

668
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 4: Check your Privilege campaign.

669
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, the Check Your Privilege campaign really was designed

670
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: to help us community become more aware of social inequality

671
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: and social privilege. And so what I mean by our

672
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: privilege are the different identities that we hold that society

673
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: gives power to or privileges over others. So, for example,

674
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 3: we know that men have more privilege than women. We

675
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: know that white people have more privilege the people of color.

676
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: We know that people with a lot of money have

677
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: more privilege than people who have less money. Right, So

678
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: we really wanted to raise awareness around that. And I

679
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 3: got to realize that this was needed because I teach

680
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: diversity classes, specifically I teach African American psychology and psychology

681
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 3: and sexuality, and students will always talk about these experiences

682
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: that they had inside and outside of the classroom where

683
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 3: people were either saying problematic things or engaging in probably

684
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 3: mattic behavior, and the students didn't really.

685
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: Know how to address those issues.

686
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: And so the campaign basically we came up with slogans,

687
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 3: and we came up with artwork, and we had posters

688
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: all around campus. And so people would have seen the

689
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 3: posters and be like.

690
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 4: I don't what does this mean? Them kind of think

691
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: about the privileges.

692
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: That they have or that they don't have, and how

693
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: they can actually use their voice for good. So we

694
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: really just wanted to give people tools to have academic

695
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: conversations about emotionally charged topics. And is there a space

696
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: where people can find that now, because I think that

697
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: that Check your Privilege campaign really ties into the topic

698
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 3: that we've been talking about today. Yeah, it absolutely does,

699
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 3: because when we are able to acknowledge the ways in

700
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 3: which our individual identities are mapped onto systematic privileges, it

701
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 3: makes it a lot easier for us to understand how

702
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: all of our oppressions are related. And yeah, so there

703
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: are resources on the USF website which you know, I

704
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: can give you send that to you, or I don't

705
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 3: know how what's the best way to get it out

706
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: to your listeners. But if you kind of just google

707
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 3: us check your Privilege campaign or my name, it'll come up.

708
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 6: It will also come up with a bunch of hay

709
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 6: e else, a bunch of hate blogs.

710
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: But you know you can go ahead and them ignore

711
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 3: those over those or how wild people are, you know,

712
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: whatever mood you're in, Yes, because people people, you know,

713
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 3: internet thugging, you know, people get on the Internet and

714
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: they just they just wild out and they just say

715
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 3: and do things that they wouldn't say in person, and

716
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: when you're doing the work, when you're out there advocating

717
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 3: for what's right and somebody feels that their privilege is

718
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: being threatened, that's when they want.

719
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 6: To come for you.

720
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: So you know you're doing good stuff. If you're getting

721
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 3: hate mail, well they can leave me alone though.

722
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: With that, and right now, we're going to move on

723
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: to one of our new segments called Oh.

724
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 5: Now, don't be skirt, Don't be scared.

725
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna preface this by saying, because we recognize a

726
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: she and celebrate the multi faceted woman and believe that

727
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: it's okay to be classy and ratchet because many of

728
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: us are, and it's okay to be you know, elegant

729
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: and also dance to strip club music if you so choose.

730
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 5: So know I do we invite you to this? Oh

731
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 5: you clatchet? Second, Yes, we've mixed up the words classy

732
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 5: and ratchet. Okay, So do you want to take on

733
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 5: this challenge, Janina.

734
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 4: Let's get it?

735
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 5: Yes?

736
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So I just have some rapid fire

737
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: questions for you and feel for you to just answer

738
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: honestly and let's.

739
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 5: Have a let's have a good time. Let's have some fun.

740
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: First question, which song gets you on the dance floor

741
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: at the club or party?

742
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 4: Oh my god, what's the last I've been to the club?

743
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: We're gonna get you hours, that's the question. I'm not

744
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: even gonna lie right now. I have no clue. I

745
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: don't even know what songs are on the radio right now.

746
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: The first song bay Case, my mind just took me

747
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 3: back to college when I was in the club all

748
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 3: the time, Little.

749
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 4: Johnny and Yane Twins.

750
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 5: I don't know a linium tour or is that a

751
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 5: dead No?

752
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 4: My wife did go, though, yes, she went with her friends.

753
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I cannot fish y'all on y'all like

754
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: in your early two thousand outfits out all right?

755
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 4: Cool? I love it.

756
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 5: So what about your favorite hairstyle on yourself?

757
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, if.

758
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: Y'all could see the discography of my hair, I'm gonna.

759
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 4: Just call a bography because it is so vast. To

760
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 4: be honest, I've had every.

761
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 3: Single hair style from pigtails when I was a kid,

762
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: to the flat iron to a fade to now locks.

763
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: But locks are by far my absolute favorite.

764
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 5: Love locks? Right, all right?

765
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 2: What's the best compliment you've ever received?

766
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 7: Ooh, well, the one I normally get the most that

767
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 7: I love is because since I am a gendern performing woman,

768
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 7: so that basically means that I'm a woman identified.

769
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 4: But I don't wear girly girl clothes, right, Like all

770
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 4: my clothes come from.

771
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 3: The man sections, so you're gonna see me with slacks

772
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: and the button up. But people always compliment me on

773
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: my shoes, which are genuinely wing tips and my bow ties.

774
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 3: And I always love it because as a woman, who's

775
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 3: gon for me, and it's not always safe to like

776
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: be your full self, so like being able to like

777
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 3: beet compliments on my style is always a wind.

778
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 5: So basically you be fly fly yes.

779
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: That way always and every time I see is fly.

780
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: Okay Okay, Now, who is your bad boy or bad

781
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: girl celebrity crush?

782
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 4: Oh it's not, there is no.

783
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if people call her a

784
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 3: bad girl, but forever my first wife, my real wife

785
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: knows this too, but your first wife, Jennet Jackson, And

786
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 3: if we want to talk about when she was bad girl,

787
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 3: when she was my.

788
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 4: Favorite dovid road toward Janet.

789
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, that's a good choice.

790
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 5: Good choice. Now, twerk or two step.

791
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 4: Oh I'm a two stepper. I wish you could work,

792
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 4: but my skill set.

793
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 5: Is not that good. Don't have to come to the

794
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 5: court class.

795
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 4: Clus.

796
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I write your favorite book.

797
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: Oh y'all play now, you guys.

798
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: And I'm in my office with these three bookshelves, and

799
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: y'all want me to pick one. Okay, So I think

800
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: I'm gonna just give you my top two because I

801
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: just have to so by Asada Shakur is like one

802
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: of my all time favorites. And then Zommi is a

803
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 3: new spelling of my name by Audrey Lord.

804
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 4: Oh.

805
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: I just ordered that book the other day. Oh, okay,

806
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to read that. Yes, read it in

807
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: for all the viewers out there, since we're talking about queerness,

808
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 3: if you need like kind of a book to like

809
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: lead you into understanding the intersectionality of most funding needs

810
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: for black women.

811
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: So with Zami, we'll add that in the show notes

812
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: as well, just to make sure that our listeners can

813
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: get the details there. And the last question for you

814
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: is what's something many people don't know about you? So

815
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: something we can't find because if you look Joannina up

816
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: on Google, she lit So you're gonna see all type

817
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: to articles and whatnot.

818
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 5: But what's something people don't know about you?

819
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 4: I was a band nerd in high school, like hardcore?

820
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 5: What does it look like? Tell us more.

821
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: It's not a matter of what you look like. It

822
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what you consume your time with.

823
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 4: So I was just to do it. My high school

824
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 4: our band was so good.

825
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 3: We we were in the Rose Bulfrad my freshman year

826
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: of high school. So I like lived and breathe, marching band,

827
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: jazz band, concert band, field, like field shows. Oh okay,

828
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: okay over here right, that's dope.

829
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 5: Though, Yeah, did you go to band camp?

830
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: Okay, I had the band camp, But no, that's that's

831
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 2: super dope.

832
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 5: This is super fun.

833
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: And which instrument insture missed?

834
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 3: So I actually play piano and jazz band, clarinet and

835
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 3: marching band and saxophone and concert band.

836
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 5: Wow, there you have, y'all.

837
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 2: That is doctor just Nina on the ones.

838
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 5: I'm not for styling today. I got a little excited.

839
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 2: But no, Jenny, we want to thank you so much

840
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: for sharing with us today. I know that we're already

841
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: gonna have to do a follow up episode because I'm

842
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: sure folks are gonna have a lot of questions.

843
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 5: There's going to be some follow up comments and all

844
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 5: that good stuff.

845
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: And I think it's really important for us to continue

846
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: these conversations.

847
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you could tell us or tell our

848
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: listeners where they can find you on social media, if

849
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: you're open to that.

850
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, So look at how old I am? What is

851
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 6: my Twitter handle?

852
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 5: I should look up my twitters right right?

853
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 4: I think it's just j J Underscore Garrett Walker on Twitter.

854
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: All right, well, we will definitely put that in the

855
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 3: show notes. So then we will have lots of people

856
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: following you and dming you with all their questions.

857
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: I'm good, thank you for having me. I knew you

858
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 4: all as well.

859
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: All right, that was That was a lot, and I'm

860
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: so curious. I really wish we had like a live

861
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: studio audience when we when we did shows, because I

862
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 2: would love to see what your thoughts are, what's going

863
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: through your mind? What are you I don't know, what

864
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: are your facial expression?

865
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 4: Why know?

866
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 2: This was definitely an interesting topic. It was a new

867
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: topic for me. I was a little nervous about diving

868
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: into this because it is something that I'm not I

869
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: don't really have language for.

870
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 5: It's new for me.

871
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: I mean literally new, as in I've been in San

872
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: Francisco for four years and I've just started I just

873
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: learned what protowns are like recently, so it's new, but

874
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: I knew that it was also very important to have

875
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: the conversation. I think a young black boy just killed

876
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: himself recently. Did you hear about that?

877
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 4: I didn't hear about that.

878
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: Basically, Nigel Shelby was a fifteen year old at Huntsville

879
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: High School in northern Alabama, and he killed himself on

880
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: April eighteenth after some anti gay bullying from some teens

881
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: in his life. And it was just a devastating event

882
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: for the community. And so folks have really been impacted

883
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 2: by that, you know.

884
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 4: What I did.

885
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: The thing that I hear often from our community, and

886
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: I get it, is that, you know, sometimes we feel

887
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: as though a certain lifestyle or identity is being pushed

888
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 2: on us. And I understand that. I see that sometimes.

889
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: You know, it seems as though, I hope I'm saying

890
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: this correctly, because I definitely I'm saying this from a

891
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: place of well intentions. I don't want to offend anyone,

892
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: but this is this is what I see. But it

893
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: seems as though sometimes it seems as though sometimes the

894
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 2: LGBT identity and the initiatives are geared toward the black

895
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 2: community specifically usually black men or boys or black youth,

896
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: and I don't see that same energy around other populations.

897
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: And so I think for us, a lot of people in.

898
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 3: Our community see like the negativity.

899
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: Negativity, but also just like the promotion, which is and

900
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: it's the thing is representation matters. So I think that

901
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: we do need to have a balance of Okay, it's

902
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: important and for young people who I especially those who

903
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: identify as being gay or lesbian, it's important for them

904
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: to see people that connect with them and that identify

905
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: with them so that they can also feel that they

906
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: can show up in the world as themselves. But at

907
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: the same time, when you see, for instance, we were

908
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: watching a cartoon my husband and I the other day,

909
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: and the only black character in the show had two dads,

910
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: but everyone else had like a a what is it

911
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 2: had like a traditional sort of family structure, And so

912
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: we see sometimes that it's like, oh, if there's a

913
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: show and there are you know, all these castmates, the

914
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: only black character is gay, but it's like, okay, representation

915
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: is important, But why can't it be this thing that's

916
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: sort of across the board and not catered to. We

917
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: want to lead everyone down this road and not have

918
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: any other option. So it's like gay is the way

919
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: and you can't be anything else. But it's like there

920
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: should be representation across the board. So whether you're a

921
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: straight black male or a gay Black male, representation matters

922
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: across the board. Does that make sense?

923
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 4: Yes?

924
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 3: Or and gender non conforming or your expression may be

925
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 3: a little bit more feminine and so but I think

926
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 3: what happens is is that there may be this is

927
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: a whole like my head, like there's a whole bunch

928
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 3: of thoughts running through my head right now. And because

929
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: that's a whole other topic of conversation about how masculinity

930
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 3: is placed on young black men and boys, and that's

931
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 3: that's the whole another uh topic. And actually Janina and

932
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: I are working on something related to reimagining black masculinity

933
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 3: interesting from a black queer feminist perspective.

934
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 4: And so.

935
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: It's trying to really help us understand that what was

936
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: what we said earlier that when we're fighting for if

937
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: we're fighting for one of us, we need to be

938
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 3: for all of us, right, if one of us is

939
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: not doing well, then none of us are doing well

940
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: because it's going to have like a domino effect. And

941
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: so I think one of the biggest takeaways that I

942
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: got from this is that this conversation isn't just a

943
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 3: one time conversation, right, that there was so much that

944
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: we went into, but we didn't go into.

945
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 2: I think we just barely hit the surface with it.

946
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 3: And like we kept saying, oh, yeah, we're diving deep,

947
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: we really didn't dive as deep as we could have

948
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: because there's just so much with each of those different

949
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: pieces that we talked about, and so like when we

950
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 3: talked about religion, when we talked about just pronouns and

951
00:49:54,920 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 3: terms and like, and there's so many different terms. Now

952
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 3: there's at least fifty different terms, at least fifty different

953
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 3: terms related to gender expression, gender identity, sexual orientation, sexuality

954
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 3: like all isexual, like sexual expression, like all of those things.

955
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: There are at least fifty different terms. So when we

956
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: say that there's not that we shouldn't be thinking about

957
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 3: things in a binary, that things truly are on a spectrum,

958
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 3: it's because they really are. And Janina gave us only

959
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 3: a handful of the terminology that's used today. Some of

960
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 3: that terminology is used in academia, but a lot of

961
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: that terminology gets used in the in the community, but

962
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: we're not aware of it.

963
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: Wow, this is I'm just taking I'm just taking it

964
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 2: all in because it's still very new, but it's also

965
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 2: it is important, and I realize the importance of us

966
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 2: having the conversations and also creating a space for us,

967
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: as you know, women in her space, to be aware

968
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: of what's happening in the world, because I think it's

969
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: very easy to one be left behind but then also

970
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 2: just be viewed as like a very close minded person

971
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: if you are interacting. Let's say you travel and you're

972
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: interact with new people and you don't know how to

973
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: connect with people on a deep level because you don't

974
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: know how they identify you know, you don't know how

975
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 2: to address them. And so I think it really is important.

976
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 2: And to give you an example, I had a speaking

977
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 2: engagement in what was I I think it was like Kansas,

978
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: and one of my managers pulled me aside and he

979
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 2: was like, hey, he pointed out one of the students

980
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: and he said, she identified her pronouns. Are they them theirs,

981
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: they them and theirs, and I was like, okay, and

982
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 2: that was new for me. I was like, oh shit,

983
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 2: I like it.

984
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 5: It just it was new.

985
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: I've never experienced that in all the years of like

986
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: going to different schools and speaking, and so I made

987
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 2: sure that when I interacted with them, I acknowledged her

988
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: in the way that she identified and wanted to be addressed.

989
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: And initially, you'd see, Okay, she was born of you know,

990
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 2: a female, so you would you're you're.

991
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 3: What is it conditioning?

992
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: Your conditioning is to identify her as she or to

993
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 2: say her. But if I would have done that in

994
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 2: front of the group, that could have made her feel

995
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: a certain way, like it could have been a bad situation.

996
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 5: So it really is.

997
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 2: Important for us to, you know, learn about these things.

998
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: And I also think about my cousin. I don't even

999
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: think I said cousin earlier, but he's openly gay, so

1000
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 2: you know, he's the one that I was referring to earlier,

1001
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: where you know, he came out when we were younger,

1002
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: and even to this day, he does not have a

1003
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: relationship with his dad, and his dad just owned him,

1004
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: and that just that really breaks my heart to know

1005
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: that you know, you can just you're trying to be

1006
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: your authentic self in the world and your dad, the

1007
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: person who helped bring you into this world, doesn't support

1008
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: that and does not love you and disowned you because

1009
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: of that. And it's just like that. No one should

1010
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: have to deal with that. And I think for me,

1011
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: like I said earlier, when I you know, have friends

1012
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 2: that were that came out to me and there were

1013
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: people that were visible in my life that identified as

1014
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 2: being gay or lesbian, it really hit me like, wow,

1015
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: this is the thing. And that was years ago, before

1016
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 2: it became a I want to say nationwide and sort

1017
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: of worldwide. I don't even know what the word what

1018
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 2: the word would be, but before it became like a

1019
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: national sort.

1020
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 3: Of before it really became important for us to really

1021
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: have the conversation, Before the conversations became like a national conversation.

1022
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: Exactly before it became a national conversation, people.

1023
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 3: Were having the conversations and the LGBT rights movement started

1024
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: decades ago, but particularly within the black community, there were

1025
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 3: a lot of spaces where that those conversations were not happening.

1026
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 3: And I think in terms of being really good allies,

1027
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 3: you know, on our show notes. What we'll do is

1028
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 3: include some resources and some links because one of the

1029
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 3: things that Janina mentioned that I think is so important

1030
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 3: is for us to recognize that black LGBTQ students or

1031
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 3: people youth are more likely or have the highest rates

1032
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: of suicide ideation, and the highest rates of homelessness. And

1033
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: if we really are going to be good allies or

1034
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 3: good accomplices in taking care of one another, if we

1035
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: know someone or we come in contact with someone who

1036
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 3: needs our help, who needs some support, we want to

1037
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 3: be able to get you connected to some resources that

1038
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 3: might be able to help them. And so we'll have

1039
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: those links on our show notes.

1040
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 2: And I also want to say, you know, I think

1041
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 2: that Janina made a really good point. And I'm kind

1042
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: of like on my Eter rate tip where it's like

1043
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: I'm voting for everybody black. I feel like if the

1044
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 2: black community could really come together, we already have enough

1045
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: on our plate. I think if we could just come together,

1046
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: not worry about how people identify and what they's sexual

1047
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: orientation is, come together as a community so we can

1048
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 2: fight the real enemy and the real oppressor, which is

1049
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: white supremacy and the system that we live in. Really

1050
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 2: in the world, but in our country specifically, I think

1051
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: it's really prevalent where you think about police brutality and

1052
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 2: all the different ways that you know, black people and

1053
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: people of color are marginalized.

1054
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 5: That's what we.

1055
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: Should really be focused on by way of, like you know,

1056
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: fighting oppression. So we could just come together as a

1057
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 2: community and lead and not worry about really people's personal

1058
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: business and all that, Like it's for what, Like what

1059
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 2: are we gaining by worrying about what someone how someone

1060
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: identifies and what their sexual orientation is. Let's just fight

1061
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 2: the real enemy. That's that's my perspective. So we had

1062
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 2: a very, uh, I want to say, interesting conversation. I

1063
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: feel that we dove into some stuff, but we didn't

1064
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: dive as deep as Down was saying earlier. But we

1065
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: would love to hear your feedback, Like, what is your

1066
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 2: honest feedback? How do you feel about the conversation? What

1067
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 2: questions do you have? Please be sure to always leave

1068
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: reviews on iTunes or any other platforms if you resonated

1069
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 2: with any of the content, if you are encouraged by

1070
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: the content, please give us feedback there and also be

1071
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: sure to join our new Facebook community. We have created

1072
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 2: a new Facebook community just for us, because we see

1073
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 2: the reviews, we see the feedback, we see that you

1074
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 2: are enjoying the content, and so we wanted to create

1075
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 2: a space where Domini can go live, where we can

1076
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 2: have conversation. And so if you look at our social

1077
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: media channels Instagram in particular at her Space podcast, you

1078
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: can find our new Facebook group that is a private

1079
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: group exclusive to our community, and that is called her

1080
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: Space Sanctuary. There are three questions that you'll need to

1081
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: answer to join that group, because we want to make

1082
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: sure that we have quality people that are going to

1083
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: provide value. We don't want any lurkers in the group.

1084
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: We really want to create a safe space where you

1085
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: can share content, connect network, and sort of strengthen the

1086
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: relationship that we've been building with you over the last

1087
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: few episodes.

1088
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 8: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note

1089
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 8: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

1090
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 8: self and empowerment, and mental health, but it is by

1091
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 8: no means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing

1092
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 8: formal relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you

1093
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,720
Speaker 8: or someone you know is in need of mental health care,

1094
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 8: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology Today,

1095
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 8: or contact your insurance provider.

1096
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

1097
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

1098
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: Twitter at her space podcast or check out our website

1099
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: at herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat

1100
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: after me, I release what no longer serves me to

1101
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: manifest what I desire.

1102
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 8: Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.

1103
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 5: Lady