Speaker 1: Vy use a length the soil from which morals and
Speaker 1: ethics and codes of conduct row. Welcome to the one
Speaker 1: you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance
Speaker 1: of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true. And yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this
Speaker 1: episode is Russ Harris. This episode is part two of
Speaker 1: a two part interview with Russ. He's a medical practitioner, psychotherapist,
Speaker 1: and a leading expert in acceptance and commitment therapy or ACT.
Speaker 1: His books include a CT With Love, a CT Made Simple,
Speaker 1: The Confidence Gap, and The Happiness Trap, which is now
Speaker 1: being translated into twenty two languages. He lives in Melbourne, Australia,
Speaker 1: and travels internationally to train mental health professionals in the
Speaker 1: a c t A first order and here's part two
Speaker 1: of Russ Harris. We are back with Russ Harris for
Speaker 1: part two of our interview where we are talking about
Speaker 1: acceptance and commitment therapy and how to apply these things
Speaker 1: to our lives. If you haven't listened to episode one,
Speaker 1: I recommend it. You don't have to, but it talks
Speaker 1: about the first couple of principles of ACT, which are
Speaker 1: fusion and expansion, and those are pretty important to understand.
Speaker 1: But we're going to pick this episode up with the
Speaker 1: principle of connection, So welcome back, Russ. Why don't you
Speaker 1: talk to us about what connection is in this context?
Speaker 1: Connection is it's not the official ACT term. The official
Speaker 1: ACT term is contacting the present moment. But I like
Speaker 1: to kind of talk about connecting with what is here
Speaker 1: and now. And that is a hard thing to do
Speaker 1: because we so easily get caught up in our thoughts
Speaker 1: and lost in our thoughts that we very often miss
Speaker 1: out or only half present to what is happening right here,
Speaker 1: right now. Sure, we've all have the experience of being
Speaker 1: in a conversation with somebody and suddenly realizing that we
Speaker 1: don't know what they're talking about because we've just been
Speaker 1: lost in our thoughts. Or maybe you know, we we
Speaker 1: get to the end of a page in a book
Speaker 1: and we suddenly realize we haven't taken in a word
Speaker 1: because we were lost in our thoughts rather than actually
Speaker 1: reading the So connection means connecting with what's here right
Speaker 1: now in the present moment, kind of attitude of openness
Speaker 1: and curiosity to what's going on, and and engaging in
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, fully giving it my full attention. The
Speaker 1: more popular and current term right is mindfulness. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm increasingly reluctant to use the term mindfulness because as
Speaker 1: it gets more and more popular, there are more and
Speaker 1: more misconceptions about it. Yeah. The most common one is
Speaker 1: that people think mindfulness means meditation. Another another very common
Speaker 1: one is they think it means Buddhism. Others think it
Speaker 1: means relaxation. So I tend to stay away from the
Speaker 1: mindfulness with it's it's kind of so many misconceptions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is becoming a word that does mean a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. So let's talk about a couple of things.
Speaker 1: We can do to strengthen this ability to connect because
Speaker 1: I think we all know, well, I should just be
Speaker 1: in the present moment, that's the place to be. And
Speaker 1: if I could just do that, and then most of
Speaker 1: us spend about a quarter of a second there, right,
Speaker 1: and then we're off again into our thoughts. And then
Speaker 1: at some point, like a week later, we're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought I wanted to be in the present moment.
Speaker 1: We might spend a second there, right, So this is
Speaker 1: a skill that we can train. So what are some
Speaker 1: of the things that you recommend as ways to get
Speaker 1: a little bit better at this? Well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think probably some of the easiest ways to do it
Speaker 1: to pick pleasurable activities that you do on a on
Speaker 1: a regular basis and start to really savor those activities
Speaker 1: as if you'd never experienced them before. So a lovely
Speaker 1: one to begin with is having a shower. A warm
Speaker 1: shower is something that most of us really enjoy, and uh,
Speaker 1: see if you can actually savor it as if you're
Speaker 1: a curious child that's never had a shower before, or
Speaker 1: a curious scientist that's wanting to explore what it's like
Speaker 1: to have a shower. Notice the feeling of the water
Speaker 1: on your back and the sound of the water and
Speaker 1: the feeling of your muscles relaxing under the water. And
Speaker 1: then of course you're going to get caught up in
Speaker 1: your thoughts about lots of other things, and you'll get
Speaker 1: pulled out of the shower and into your thoughts, and
Speaker 1: the moment you realize that's happened, you kind of acknowledge
Speaker 1: it just got caught up in my thoughts, and you
Speaker 1: bring your attention back to the shower again, noticing the
Speaker 1: water and the feeling on your body, and then you
Speaker 1: drift off again. Your mind pulls you into your thoughts again,
Speaker 1: pulls you out of the shower, and the moment you
Speaker 1: realize that's happened again, you acknowledge it just drifted off
Speaker 1: and bring your attention back to the shower. So it's
Speaker 1: this kind of drift off, come back, drift off, come back,
Speaker 1: and uh, any kind of pleasurable activity is good to
Speaker 1: practice this with, eating, drinking, playing with the kids, stroking
Speaker 1: the dog. These are things that we just often take
Speaker 1: for granted, we don't kind of savor and appreciate them.
Speaker 1: So that's probably the fast the the easiest way to
Speaker 1: start is with naturally pleasurable experiences. I use the shower
Speaker 1: as a way to do that also. And one of
Speaker 1: the ways to to become more present in the current
Speaker 1: moment is to sort of focus on your body right
Speaker 1: and kind of do a body scan of how you're
Speaker 1: feeling different parts. And for some people myself included, a
Speaker 1: lot of that is like, well, I don't feel anything,
Speaker 1: like there's just nothing there, but in the shower if
Speaker 1: I do that, there's always something happening. There's you know,
Speaker 1: there's water running down. I mean, it's just I have
Speaker 1: just found the shower to be an easy place to
Speaker 1: practice because the stimulus is intense enough that it it
Speaker 1: can keep attention. Another one that you've talked about that
Speaker 1: I really like, is you I think you call it
Speaker 1: the five things exercise. Yeah, well, let's take your listeners
Speaker 1: through that right now. So first of all, whatever you're
Speaker 1: doing right now, just see if you can notice five things, uh,
Speaker 1: just that you can see. Just notice five things that
Speaker 1: you can see right now. Uh, at least three or
Speaker 1: four things that you can hear right now. A notice
Speaker 1: if you can just breathe in the air, is there
Speaker 1: anything in particular that you can smell or sense in
Speaker 1: your nose and notice what you're doing, where your arms
Speaker 1: and your legs are, or your hands and your feet are,
Speaker 1: what your body is. So kind of get a sense
Speaker 1: of of what you can see, what you can hear,
Speaker 1: what you're doing, what you're doing with your body where
Speaker 1: it is, and notice some if relevant to you, what
Speaker 1: you can smell and taste right now. And if your
Speaker 1: listeners are doing this right now, then they're starting to
Speaker 1: expand their awareness, get a sense of all the things
Speaker 1: that they can see and hear and touch and taste
Speaker 1: and smell right now. So that expansive awareness immediately starts
Speaker 1: to get us in contact with the present moment. And
Speaker 1: it is kind of overlaps with we were talking about
Speaker 1: in the first conversation about diffusion. So as I start
Speaker 1: to get more and more present with what I can
Speaker 1: see and hear and touch and tastes man, and what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now, that starts to help me on
Speaker 1: hook from all of those thoughts that are worring through
Speaker 1: my head. I really like that exercise. Another one that
Speaker 1: I sometimes do is I try and see, Like, let
Speaker 1: me try and find everything that's read in my field
Speaker 1: of vision or as I'm walking along or everything that's
Speaker 1: that's blue. I find that things like the five things
Speaker 1: or the red or blue a little bit of a prompt,
Speaker 1: a little bit of something to help me train my
Speaker 1: brain to how do I be present? You know what
Speaker 1: does that mean? I find those extraordinarily helpful as ways
Speaker 1: to stay in the present moment longer than the quarter
Speaker 1: of a second that I described before. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, you know, we don't want
Speaker 1: to get into, you know, kind of being perfectionists about right,
Speaker 1: We don't want to try to become zen masters. And
Speaker 1: even a little bit of being more present can make
Speaker 1: a make a difference. So another thing I recommend very
Speaker 1: often is if there is someone in your life that
Speaker 1: you come home to when you first come home, see
Speaker 1: if you can make them the focus. Really notice what
Speaker 1: they look like, what they sound like, their facial expression,
Speaker 1: as if it's the first time that you've ever greeted them.
Speaker 1: If if this might be your child, or your flatmate,
Speaker 1: or your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever. But see if
Speaker 1: you can notice them with with absolute curiosity, their their
Speaker 1: their facial expressions, and their tone of voice, and how
Speaker 1: they hold their body and what they do with their
Speaker 1: arms and their legs as they're talking to you, and
Speaker 1: see if you can really have that kind of intense
Speaker 1: connection rather than just kind of getting into the habits
Speaker 1: that many of us do when we come home to
Speaker 1: the same people over time and taking them a bit
Speaker 1: for granted, yep, I think that point you made too
Speaker 1: about perfection is so important because I mean, I say
Speaker 1: the quarter of a second kind of jokingly, but I
Speaker 1: also say it because that was really my experience a lot.
Speaker 1: And I think that's very easy to give up on
Speaker 1: these things because you think, well, R, I will be
Speaker 1: in the present moment and then we don't do it
Speaker 1: for more than a second, and it is a thing
Speaker 1: that is challenging to do. But I love the idea
Speaker 1: of just saying like, any little bit of it helps.
Speaker 1: And another one is that you know, a meditation practice
Speaker 1: will help develop this muscle. Yeah, for sure, if if
Speaker 1: people are willing to do mindfulness meditation, that it can
Speaker 1: certainly help. Unfortunately, most people to keep it up for
Speaker 1: very long. Also, things like yoga and tai chi are
Speaker 1: are also mindfulness practices, but more physical practices. Let's move
Speaker 1: on to the next concept, which is a little bit
Speaker 1: similar to both connection and diffusion, which is this idea
Speaker 1: of the observing self. Can you explain what that means? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So in the last exercise, I ask listeners to notice stuff.
Speaker 1: Notice what you can see, notice what you can hear,
Speaker 1: notice what you can smell. In the first conversation we
Speaker 1: talked about noticing your thoughts, noticing your feelings, noticing what
Speaker 1: you're doing. So there's there's this aspect of a human
Speaker 1: being that is able to notice everything. And another metaphor
Speaker 1: I'm fond of is that you know, life is like
Speaker 1: a stage show and on that stage or all your thoughts,
Speaker 1: all your feelings, everything that you can see and hear
Speaker 1: and touch and taste and smell, and this show is
Speaker 1: changing all the time, constantly, and there's this part of
Speaker 1: you that can step back and watch the show, can
Speaker 1: kind of zoom in and taken the details, zoom out
Speaker 1: and taken the big picture. Dim the lights on some
Speaker 1: parts of the stage, bring up the lights on other parts,
Speaker 1: and this part of you that can kind of step
Speaker 1: back and watch the show. We don't really have a
Speaker 1: good name for it in everyday language. Were so in
Speaker 1: the app model, we often call it the observing self,
Speaker 1: as distinct from the thinking self. It's part of you
Speaker 1: that's thinking all the time. There's this observing self. There's
Speaker 1: part of you that that does all of this noticing
Speaker 1: and doesn't actually think, that simply notices. And the problem
Speaker 1: is when we use the word mind, we lose track
Speaker 1: of the fact that there's these kind of two very
Speaker 1: distinct aspects. Um. So if we can start to talk
Speaker 1: about the thinking self of the mind, and we can
Speaker 1: talk about the observing self or that noticing self helps
Speaker 1: us kind of get a different sense of these two
Speaker 1: parts of ourselves. That observing self is the one that's
Speaker 1: able to practice diffusion, is able to practice connection. And
Speaker 1: I do think that's such a key idea. And you're right,
Speaker 1: we don't have very good words for it in the
Speaker 1: Western world. It's certainly a topic that is explored in
Speaker 1: great detail in some of the Eastern traditions, Buddhism in particular.
Speaker 1: In my mind, it sits behind everything else. And I
Speaker 1: love your analogy actually being out on the state, you know,
Speaker 1: or being in the audience and seeing everything that's on
Speaker 1: the stage. Um. I think another word for it is just,
Speaker 1: you know, awareness, that there is just this awareness that
Speaker 1: we have that we can tune into and it's always there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's another good term for it. Actually,
Speaker 1: pure awareness is it is probably a better term, because
Speaker 1: when you call it an observing self, it makes it
Speaker 1: sound like it's a little personal entity, whereas it's really
Speaker 1: just a process. It's just pure awareness. We have all
Speaker 1: different kinds of people on the show, and you know,
Speaker 1: we've had spiritual teachers on and you know, they are
Speaker 1: talking about this pure aware nous exactly in the way
Speaker 1: that we are here, and they're describing it as sort
Speaker 1: of that is the nature of the self. Now, I
Speaker 1: think that again, this is you know, I like ACT
Speaker 1: because it stays pretty clearly on the scientific and practical side,
Speaker 1: and yet it seems to a lot of the concepts
Speaker 1: seemed to end up in the same place that a
Speaker 1: lot of certain spiritual traditions point to. But I'm curious
Speaker 1: what your concept of a self is. What does that
Speaker 1: mean to you? You know, what is the self? So
Speaker 1: Stephen Hayes, the guy who created ACT back in the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. Acts started when so Steve is from a
Speaker 1: very scientific tradition in psychology called behavior analysis, and in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties, Steve wrote a paper called Making
Speaker 1: Sense of Spirituality, which was looking at spirituality through the
Speaker 1: scientific lens of behavior analysis, which was a radical thing
Speaker 1: to do thirty years ago, not not now, but thirty
Speaker 1: years is. It goes like what we are behavior analysts,
Speaker 1: we are serial scientists, what's the spirituality stuff? But Steve's point,
Speaker 1: you know, was that behavior analysts are interested in human behavior,
Speaker 1: and spirituality is such a fundamental aspect of human behavior
Speaker 1: across all cultures, across all periods of history, we better
Speaker 1: study it. And it was that kind of scientific study
Speaker 1: of spirituality that led to act. So it's not surprising
Speaker 1: that you kind of get these commonalities across with other traditions.
Speaker 1: But the the act take on self would be you're
Speaker 1: all one. There's no separate bits and pieces to a
Speaker 1: human being. No machine or scanner has ever shown a
Speaker 1: mind separate to a body. There's no tool or device
Speaker 1: that can show an observing self separate to a thinking self.
Speaker 1: You're all one. These are convenient and practical ways of
Speaker 1: speaking about different aspects of what it is to be human.
Speaker 1: Um and so so that would be the act a
Speaker 1: can and that would be my take too. I think
Speaker 1: one of the things I fell in love with with
Speaker 1: ACT is that it enabled me to live a very
Speaker 1: spiritual life without following a particular religious path. I'm not
Speaker 1: anti religious, I just have never found a religion that
Speaker 1: I've taken to. I've read about many and explored, but
Speaker 1: I can live a very spiritual life living by my values,
Speaker 1: living in the present moment, with this solid science underpinning it.
Speaker 1: I really like that also. And I'm kind of that
Speaker 1: way with religions too, Like I probably mostly identify with Buddhism,
Speaker 1: but at any religion, I get to a point where
Speaker 1: there's suddenly a leap into believing something that I'm just like, well,
Speaker 1: I just don't know, like, you know, reincarnation or karma
Speaker 1: or you know, whatever those things are, And so I
Speaker 1: kind of creep up to like an edge in all
Speaker 1: of them. And then I start looking and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just not quite ready to go there. But ACT
Speaker 1: has a lot of the things that you would find
Speaker 1: in a religion, for particularly as we now move into
Speaker 1: the next key principle of ACT, which is your values.
Speaker 1: And you know, religions tend to have a you know,
Speaker 1: a moral aspect to them, and and values does too.
Speaker 1: Although it's not an externally imposed morality in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form. But it is about recognizing what's important
Speaker 1: to you. So can you talk more about values values
Speaker 1: Like the word mindfulness, there's often people have different meanings
Speaker 1: about the word values. So the the way that we
Speaker 1: define values in act is as as desired qualities of
Speaker 1: action In other words, kind of what qualities do I
Speaker 1: want to bring to my actions here and now and
Speaker 1: on an ongoing basis, you know, where, how do I
Speaker 1: want to behave as a human being? How do I
Speaker 1: want to treat myself and others and the world around me.
Speaker 1: So it's this sense of the qualities I want to
Speaker 1: bring to my behavior in the present moment and on
Speaker 1: an ongoing basis. And we often want to hease out
Speaker 1: the distinction between goals of the values. So goals are
Speaker 1: things that are aiming to achieve or to do in
Speaker 1: the future, that kind of outcomes that are aiming for
Speaker 1: results I want to get, whereas values are how I
Speaker 1: want to behave right here, right now, how I want
Speaker 1: to behave as I pursue my goals, how I want
Speaker 1: to behave if I fail at my goals. So if
Speaker 1: I just give an example, so marriage, if you want
Speaker 1: to get married. That's a that's a goal. It's something
Speaker 1: that you're aiming to do at some point in the future,
Speaker 1: and when you've completed it, you've achieved the goal. Marriage
Speaker 1: number one, dick, marriage number two, ticket marriage okay um.
Speaker 1: Where As if your values are things like being loving
Speaker 1: and kind and caring to notice, if if my values
Speaker 1: are if the way that I want to behave as
Speaker 1: a human being is to be kind and loving and caring,
Speaker 1: I can do that right now, in the present moment,
Speaker 1: even if I never get married, even if I never
Speaker 1: find a boyfriend or girlfriend or partner, I can be loving,
Speaker 1: kind and caring to myself, my neighbors, my dog, my cat,
Speaker 1: even my pop plants. There are many ways I can
Speaker 1: live the value even if I don't ever achieve the goal.
Speaker 1: And I like the idea you've talked about. If you
Speaker 1: look at the goal and you you go a level deeper,
Speaker 1: like what what is it about this goal? What am
Speaker 1: I after with this that that can lead you to
Speaker 1: your values? Absolutely, values are really your heart's deepest desires
Speaker 1: for how you want to behave as a human being
Speaker 1: right now and on an ongoing basis, And they're different
Speaker 1: to morals in the sense that morals convey a sense
Speaker 1: of if we can think about it, values are like
Speaker 1: the soil from which morals and ethics and codes of
Speaker 1: conduct grow, if you like so, in a sense, they're
Speaker 1: deeper than all of that. There's no kind of right
Speaker 1: or wrong in a value, or good or bad in
Speaker 1: a value. It's just expressing these are the qualities that
Speaker 1: I want to live by. And then what happens is
Speaker 1: your group or your culture will then start to kind
Speaker 1: of say, well, these are good values, and those are
Speaker 1: bad values, and this is the right way to act
Speaker 1: on your values, and that's a wrong way to act
Speaker 1: on your values. And if you do it this way,
Speaker 1: then you're a good person, and if you do it
Speaker 1: that way, you're a bad person. And this is how
Speaker 1: you start to get virtues and ethics and morals. So
Speaker 1: we're going to, I would say, at a deeper level
Speaker 1: than all of that, just deep in my heart what
Speaker 1: I want to be about. I love the idea that
Speaker 1: you can be living your values right now on your
Speaker 1: way to your goals. And one that I think about
Speaker 1: really often is I know a lot of people talk
Speaker 1: about my goal is I want to do meaningful work
Speaker 1: in the world. You know, I want to contribute. I
Speaker 1: want to make the world a better place. And where
Speaker 1: I see a lot of times that we can get
Speaker 1: stuck with that is we think that's going to happen
Speaker 1: when we get the type of job that does that
Speaker 1: on a grand scale, Like well, when I'm finally living
Speaker 1: my dream of feeding children in Africa, then things will
Speaker 1: be a certain way. And what I've found and I'm
Speaker 1: someone who is, you know, at the same time trying
Speaker 1: to get to different places career wise and do more
Speaker 1: things and also still having you know what what some
Speaker 1: people would refer to as like the day job, is
Speaker 1: that I found that if those are my values, I
Speaker 1: can start applying them right now to the job that
Speaker 1: I'm in, right where I'm at today. And I think
Speaker 1: that's such a great way of of looking at the
Speaker 1: world and the way that that you guys describe values
Speaker 1: as a way of of living even on your way
Speaker 1: towards your goals. Yeah, I mean, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: really lovely example and a common one that comes up.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like great, Okay, so let's brainstorm what
Speaker 1: needs to happen over the next ten years so that
Speaker 1: you can get a career where you're out kind of
Speaker 1: helping build orphanages in Ethiopia. But in the meantime, if
Speaker 1: your values around helping and caring, what's a little way
Speaker 1: that you could live that in the next few hours? Oh?
Speaker 1: Well I could. I could make mama a cup of tea. Right,
Speaker 1: let's stop there. You know, I don't have to wait.
Speaker 1: I don't have to wait till I'm a brain surgeon
Speaker 1: before I start living my value of helping people. You know,
Speaker 1: I can do it right here, right now. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that idea. Well, let's turn to the final of
Speaker 1: the principles of act that we've been discovering, which is
Speaker 1: committed action. We've said several times in this conversation that
Speaker 1: our emotions and our thoughts don't have to drive or
Speaker 1: guide our behavior. That's another one of those things that's
Speaker 1: pretty easy to say and a whole lot harder to do.
Speaker 1: So what are some principles or approaches I can take
Speaker 1: to taking effective committed action even when I've got all
Speaker 1: this other stuff that's swirling around in my brain. Committed
Speaker 1: action is so important. Remember, it's it's it's acceptance and
Speaker 1: commitment therapy. So it's not passively accepting what life is
Speaker 1: giving you. It's accepting what's out of your control and
Speaker 1: committing to action that will improve your life and make
Speaker 1: it as good as it possibly can be. You know,
Speaker 1: even if you're stuck in a refugee camp. You know.
Speaker 1: The analogy we use a lot is that values are
Speaker 1: like a compass. They kind of give you guidance, they
Speaker 1: give you direction, they help you find your way, But
Speaker 1: a compass won't give you a journey. The journey only
Speaker 1: happens when you start moving your arms and legs taking action.
Speaker 1: So we can use our values to set goals. We
Speaker 1: can break our goals down into action plans, and then
Speaker 1: a cause. The key factor is actually doing that stuff.
Speaker 1: What I generally say to clients is, first of all,
Speaker 1: start noticing where are you already doing this? You know,
Speaker 1: most of us, if we start to pay more conscious
Speaker 1: attention throughout the day, we'll find there's lots of little
Speaker 1: things throughout the day where we're already living our values,
Speaker 1: taking action, doing things that are important. So let's become
Speaker 1: more aware of those and let's appreciate those. And then
Speaker 1: again it begins with this awareness where there are there
Speaker 1: areas of life where the way that I'm acting, is
Speaker 1: going against my values, is pulling me into what an
Speaker 1: act we often call away moves, moving away from the
Speaker 1: person I want to be. So again, it begins with
Speaker 1: this awareness, this contacting the present moment or connection. So
Speaker 1: I start to notice those areas of life where my
Speaker 1: behavior is not reflecting my values. And then I start
Speaker 1: looking at little ways, something that I could do differently.
Speaker 1: And I always say the clients start small, Think small.
Speaker 1: You know, I suppose you're interested in improving your health.
Speaker 1: Your goal is to improve your health the value identify
Speaker 1: your self care, and your mind goes, all right, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to the gym three times a week. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty big goal if you've done no exercise
Speaker 1: for twenty years. So I kind of say, let's make
Speaker 1: that a secondary goal. There's a lot to do to
Speaker 1: achieve that. You know, you got to get Jim care,
Speaker 1: You've got to take out a gym membership, You've gotta
Speaker 1: range of babysitter for the kids. Is there something much smaller, simpler,
Speaker 1: easier that you can do in the next twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: a little action in line with self caring. Oh well,
Speaker 1: I guess I could. I could go for a ten
Speaker 1: minute walk at lunchtime today. Great, let's start with that
Speaker 1: to start small things small, What a tiny little steps
Speaker 1: I can take to start, you know, kind of acting
Speaker 1: on these values. I agree those small steps are are
Speaker 1: so critical, and I, you know, I really live by
Speaker 1: the idea of that, like a little bit of something
Speaker 1: is better than a lot of nothing. And that's where
Speaker 1: I think so many of us get stuck as we think, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I. I used to do this with meditation.
Speaker 1: I would would meditate for a while, and then I'd
Speaker 1: fall off, and I'd read a book that would inspire
Speaker 1: me to do it again, and I'd go back and
Speaker 1: I'd try and meditate for thirty minutes every day, and
Speaker 1: that did not work for me. It was way too hard,
Speaker 1: so I would fall off. And you know, finally when
Speaker 1: I went, well, you know what, three minutes of meditation
Speaker 1: every day is better than the none I've been getting
Speaker 1: for the last month. And I think I can sustain that.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of when meditation went from on off.
Speaker 1: Thing for me is something that I do, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty regularly, by starting small and slowly building from there. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, as the saying goes from the Dowdijing. You know,
Speaker 1: the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step exactly.
Speaker 1: This has been a great conversation and we could go on,
Speaker 1: but I want to try and take all this because
Speaker 1: all this boils down into a basic act formula. Can
Speaker 1: you share with us what that is? Well, it would
Speaker 1: probably be um, you know, coming back to what we
Speaker 1: talked about in the first conversation. You know, be present,
Speaker 1: open up, and do what matters. So be in the
Speaker 1: present moment right here, right now, open up, make room
Speaker 1: for for all the thoughts and feelings that are showing
Speaker 1: up for you in this moment, wherever they're pleasant or unpleasant,
Speaker 1: and do what matters. Kind of connect with those values
Speaker 1: and do anything any action small or great that is
Speaker 1: living those values. Be present, open up, do what matters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Another way I've heard you say it is
Speaker 1: you use the letters of acts. So accept your thoughts
Speaker 1: and feelings and be present, see connect with your values,
Speaker 1: and t take effective action. So very similar to what
Speaker 1: you just said. Well, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on. Um, I've enjoyed both of
Speaker 1: these conversations. You've got several books out there that that
Speaker 1: approaches from different angles, and I highly recommend them all.
Speaker 1: There's lots of exercises in them and I think they
Speaker 1: are great. We'll have links to those books to your
Speaker 1: websites all that in the show notes. But thanks so
Speaker 1: much Russ for coming on. I've enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's been a real pleasure chatting with you. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. Bye. If what you just heard was helpful
Speaker 1: to you, please consider making a donation to the one
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