1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. There's a religious zealotry 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: to the woke left movement not so long ago, imposing 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: a moral framework. When every aspect of life was a 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: conservative approach, it was the right who saw the world 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: through a moral prison. And when the right was doing 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: the moralizing, the left could be counted on to oppose them. 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: But the tables have turned. In his new book, The 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: Rise of the New Puritans, Fighting Back against Progressive's War 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: on fund Noah Rothman dies deeply into the realities of 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: this provocative societal change, rooting out its origins and exploring 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: how it threatens the ideals of freedom and personal fulfillment 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: at the heart of the American experiment. This inclination towards 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: meddlesomeness is nothing new in our history, and as he 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: dissects this mounting aspect of the social justice movement, Rothman 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: draws parallels to the zealotry that lends the New Puritanism 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: its name. It is an impulse that judges and attacks 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: its victims based on a narrow moral judgment, the lack 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: of subtlety or an appreciation for human complexity. Here to 19 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: talk about his new book, I'm really pleased to welcome 20 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: my guest, Noah Rotha. He is the associate editor of 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: Commentary magazine, author of Unjust, and an NBC News contributor. Noah, 22 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me a news world, 23 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: mister speaker. Thank you so much for having me. It's 24 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: a pleasure. I'm curious what led you to write this book. 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: I was miserable to be frank. This is back in 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: the late fall winter of twenty twenty. It's the height 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: of the pandemic. We had just had the riots, and 28 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: every institution in America had committed itself to reconceptualizing the 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: Founding as something rather terrible in all its subsequent emanations, 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: as something you should be suspective and hostile toward. And 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with my wife and describing my misery. 32 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: She asks, what would you like to do if you 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: could do anything, well, I'd like to speak with people 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: who are in institutions that I like, work in comics, sports, broadcasters, chefs, 35 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: people who create entertainment for a living, screenwriters, And they're like, no, 36 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: I can't because everything is political now. There is no 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: escape from the politics that has infected even a political 38 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: aspects of life. Those things that should be outside the 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: realm of politics properly understood. And she says that's the book, 40 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: and it was. So you're saying that even chefs end 41 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: up being political. Oh, and they'll tell you about how 42 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: miserable they are about it. There's a fair amount of 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: the third chapter on Prudence that describes the extent to 44 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: which food, not just preparation but generally the pleasant atmospherics 45 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: of dining have become a pro that your meat consumption 46 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: is making you into a burden on your family and 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: your community and destroying the eden into which you were 48 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: conceived that you should be consuming a lot more insects, 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: not because they're good. In fact, good is beside the point, 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: because you're contributing to a social value, and that sense 51 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: of satisfaction should be sustenance enough. There are plenty of 52 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: chefs who are getting out of this industry, not because 53 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: they're no longer good at what they do or they've 54 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: gotten bad reviews, because they no longer find their life's 55 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: work fulfilling, in part because they can't do their life's work. 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: They get up every morning consumed with the mission now 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: before them, which is conducting politics, being political and that's 58 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: not what they signed up for. A lot of the 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: people I spoke with are liberal Democrats. Wouldn't vote Republican 60 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: if you paid them, But their enthusiasm for their life's 61 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: work is being robbed of them, and they bitterly resented 62 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: what happened to them if they just ignored all that 63 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: pressure and cooked what they wanted to. So part of 64 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: my book is an attempt to give them a permission 65 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: structure to do just that. Most of the who genuflect 66 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: before the WOP movement share its goals, share its objectives, 67 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: and part of the reason why I organize this chapter 68 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: by unimpeachable virtues, piety, prudence, austerity, the fear of God, temperance, 69 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: and order is because the mission, in its abstract to 70 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: which progressives adhere was objectively good. It is the way 71 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: in which it is being pursued by its most zealous 72 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: adherents that is the problem. A lot of these people 73 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: share the idea and the importance of the progressive mission 74 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: that leaves them unable to based on their social circles 75 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: and the industries in which they inhabit, leaves them unable 76 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: to just simply walk away to ignore it. You can try, 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: but there's a collective action problem here. The first to 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: go is only the first to go, and then they 79 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: need to crowd behind them. And so the prescription that 80 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: I try to offer here is to live your life 81 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: in a care free way, in a joyous way, to 82 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: mock those who have made a spectacle of themselves, because 83 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: you know it only takes a first couple of people 84 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: to do it, and then you'll have a collective action 85 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: behind them, and ultimately to consume and to reward commercially 86 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: those who are bucking this trend and create an incentive 87 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: structure to continue to do so. So there's a set 88 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: of prescriptions there. But right now those who don't want 89 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: to run a foul of this movement are quite frankly scared. 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: There are real consequences for running a foul of it, 91 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: especially if you don't have an institution backing you that 92 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: is institutionally committed to free expression and the exploration of 93 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: ideas that can perhaps offend the more puritanically inclined progressive. 94 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: Is this largely a big city problem? I mean, if 95 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: you're a chef, are you under greater pressure in a 96 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: New York or Chicago or Los Angeles? And you would 97 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: be in you know, Des Moines or Birmingham, doubtlessly, but 98 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: that is where the commanding heights of culture are located, right. 99 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: This is a problem of the capture of these institutions 100 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: in a spectacular act of piracy by a narrow band 101 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: of committed progress inclined towards puritanism. I'm not talking about democrats, 102 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: per sec I'm not talking about liberals, not even all progressives. 103 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: It's hard to quantify, but it's a smallish band of 104 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: very enthusiastic zealots who have captured these institutions and who 105 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: are meeting out at comumpets against those who do not 106 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: bend to their will. But they punch way above their weight, 107 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: and they have managed to use the pseudo authoritative language 108 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: of critical studies departments on campuses to morally blackmail, intimidate, 109 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: and capture institutions that are bigger than them, that have 110 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: a broader mission statement. But they are all being subsumed 111 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: into this one project, which is the advancement of the 112 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: progressive mission. And it's the three legs of that stool. 113 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Rachel reproachement, economic egalitarianism, and environmental protection. All of these 114 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: things in the abstract are noble. It is when they 115 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: become a religious conviction and are prosecuted with absolute zelotry, 116 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: that they've become intell colerable. In the model you're building 117 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: just the actual reference to New Puritans, you're describing a 118 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of religious or quasi religious movement more than a 119 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: political movement, and it has elements of a secular faith. 120 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: It mimics a secular faith. I depart slightly from some 121 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: people in this field whom I admired quite a bit, 122 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Professor John mcwater, Michael Crichton, all of whom I identified 123 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: really sort of religious traits in this secular approach to life. 124 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: But I maintain that it transcends the conduct of politics 125 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: and religion in a way that mimics the Puritan experience, 126 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: because Puritanism wasn't simply a religion. It wasn't congregationalism alone. 127 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't the management of the colonies. It was both 128 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: of those things. That was a way of life. I 129 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: prefer to describe it as a theory of social organization 130 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: more so than a religion per se. It lacks what 131 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: I think is a key element of any conduct of spirituality, 132 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: which is a deism, something that can provide you with 133 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: absolution and allow you to conduct yourself in a way 134 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: that is without sin. There is no way to escape 135 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: sin in this idea of the new puritanical conception of 136 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: the environment in which we're in. The sin, the sinner, 137 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: and the environment in which the sin are committed are 138 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: all along the same continuum. You can't block them off, 139 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: because that's how your hand in this existential fight against 140 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: a ubiquitous evil. So, historically, the concept of Puritanism was 141 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: seen as something on the right, and it was some 142 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: sense of imposing a set of values on people that 143 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: was often on fair and that was often arbitrary. And 144 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: you're suggesting, as a number of people have that in fact, 145 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: that's been transferred to the moral fervor and the intensity 146 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: that we used to identify with the right is now 147 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: in many ways to be found on the lay. Yeah, 148 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: and it's an absolute mystery as to how this happened. 149 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: That's where I begin unpacking this is that, Yeah, it 150 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: was traditionally in a tendency to see in seemingly innocent 151 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: cultural products nefarious influences that would corrupt you into grade. 152 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: Society as a whole was primarily a predilection on the right. Now, 153 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: all of a a sudden on the left were treated to 154 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: moral crusades that very much mimic that big entertainment companies 155 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: introducing themes to products that deemphasize the entertainment value of 156 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: that because that's actually rather trite. It has to serve 157 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: a higher social purpose than mere entertainment. Comedians who are 158 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: emphasizing the pain that someone had to experience so that 159 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: you could enjoy something as frivolous as a punchline sports coverage, 160 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: sit down to ESPN and you'll be treated to long 161 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: digressions about the lamentable state of racial dynamics in America. 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: And when fans object, as they do, often they're explicitly 163 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: admonished for putting their need for escapism over their duty 164 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: to dwell on the world's miseries. Indeed, dwelling on the 165 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: world's miseries seems to be the highest goal, even above 166 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: and beyond the principle that whatever the principle happens to 167 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: be that they're promoting at any given time. This is 168 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: indeed a puritanical impulse. Scholars of Puritanism get a little 169 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: frustrated when you conflate big p Puritans of the sixteen 170 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: hundred seventeen hundreds with the kind of the calm stockery 171 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: into which it evolved in the nineteenth century. And that's 172 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: more what we think of when we think of stereotypes 173 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: of crudish Puritans who wanted to remake the world anew 174 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: But that is where progressivism was birst. It came to 175 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: be in the heart of mainline Protestant New England, and 176 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: it retains quite a lot of its characteristics, among them utopianism, 177 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: a messianic approach to political organizing, and a fear of idleness. 178 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: That which is idle is an empty vessel that can 179 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: be filled up and will be filled with the influences 180 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: that are working all around us, that are corrupting us 181 00:10:51,440 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: and corrupting our society at large. When I was a kid, 182 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: they would say that idle hands are the devil's workshop, 183 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: and there was that whole notion that, you know, if 184 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: you don't stay busy and virtuous, the bad things will 185 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: happen automatically, And there was sort of a hangover from 186 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: the Puritan ethic. I've often wondered if Harvard and Yale 187 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: had not been in New England, how different would things 188 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: have been. Because the dynamic which led to abolitionism and 189 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: led to a whole range of things comes straight out 190 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: of the Puritan tradition, the Puritan passion for creating a 191 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: city on the hill. Absolutely, the Puritans get a bad rap, 192 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: and I try to make that point frequently in this 193 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: manuscript that, as you say, they bequeathed us with some 194 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: of the greatest gifts that Americans should be cherishing, the 195 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: proto democratic institutions that evolved into what became the Constitutional Convention. 196 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: I've really profound commitment to abolitionism, so committed that many 197 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: prominent Puritan activists back to Mexico and the Mexican American 198 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: War is one of the reasons why there zelotry can 199 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: be a bit grading in mixed company. And a social 200 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: contract that left us with so that you wouldn't have 201 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: to depend on charity in your darkest hours. These are 202 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: profoundly good things. And if that tradition hadn't arisen in 203 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: New England and perhaps in the mid Atlantic, we might 204 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: have a much more Catholic conception of virtue. We much 205 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: have elevated social justice in a way that was muted 206 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: in the early eighteen hundreds. So who knows. I mean, 207 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: that's an interesting counterfactual, but along with this puritanical virtues 208 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: comes puritanical zeal. The two things are intertwined. I don't 209 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: think that can be separated. And the progressive tradition has 210 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: its roots in puritanical soil, and progressives might not recognize 211 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: that impulse in themselves, but that's vanity, and this book 212 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: hopes to address that. So you talk about the progressives 213 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: war on fund. I understand why in the religious tradition 214 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: that was a serious component, because fun was inherently putting 215 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: you in risk of sin and was taking your mind 216 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: away from God and away from preparing for heaven. But 217 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: why in the modern period have all of these folks 218 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: decided that having fun is inherently dangerous. Well, so if 219 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: you replace the mission of creating a new Zion, which 220 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: is not dissimilar from the mission of perfecting the human 221 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: experience if you believe it can be perfected, is this 222 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: messianic mission towards remaking the world anew and certainly extirpating 223 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: the sins that we inherited. One of the scholars who 224 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: I quote very often in this manuscript, George McKenna, whose 225 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: book The Puritan Origins of American Patriotism is one of 226 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: the best scholarly works on how Puritanism has bequeathed us 227 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: with all these political traditions, and identified a series of 228 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: traits that are native to a typical Puritan, And the 229 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: one I focus on is one that he called anxious introspect, 230 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: which is the constant interrogation of yourself and the projection 231 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: of inward insecurities on your external environment. And the manifestation 232 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: which this most frequently materializes is in a fear and 233 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: mistrust of what we would understand to be really banal activities. 234 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: They have embraced a narrower understanding of the origins of 235 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: the United States, elevating its original sins to a place 236 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: of prominence that would confuse and confound us. I think 237 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: we would agree a founding generation because it is so 238 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: outside the scope of what they understood to be its importance, 239 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: but indicting everything on the flimsiest of pretext around that. So, 240 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: when you have this anxious introspection and you projected onto environment, 241 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: you can see how the activity of knitting and sewing 242 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: are irreparably linked coupled with the legacy of American slavery. 243 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: It takes an initiated puritanical progressive to see that. But 244 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing they can see. They can 245 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: see that in fly fishing, they can see that in 246 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: interior decorating, in gardening. And it is the conduct of, 247 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: for example, the mistrust of holidays that I think is 248 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: one of the many ways in which this particular tendency 249 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: has really impossible to ignore links to the past, because, 250 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: as Cotton Mather said, it isn't the holiday itself, it 251 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: is the immodest behavior that the holiday encourages, lud drinking, 252 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: excessive eating, displays of gluttony. And we see that in 253 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: the way of the modern puritan does their best to 254 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: ruin holidays. They admonish you to berate your relatives over 255 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: the abject state in which the country in the world 256 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: finds itself during this otherwise joyous time, because joy is 257 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: beside the point. In fact, it's rather counterproductive to be joyous, 258 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: particularly in such dire times in which we find ourselves. 259 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: This anxious introspection typifies quite a lot of how the 260 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: new purit and navigates the world which has become the 261 00:15:52,440 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: enemy of joy itself. I'm very curious when you think 262 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: about the shutdowns and people being locked at home and 263 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: all the different things that came out of the pandemic. 264 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: To what extent do you think that accelerated or intensified 265 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: or changed the move towards the new Puritanism? Perhaps quite 266 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: a bit in a way I don't get into in 267 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: this manuscript, in part because it was written in the 268 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: middle of it, so it lacked any perspective on it. Nevertheless, 269 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: in the middle of this profound and unprecedented for most 270 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: of our lifetimes mini civilizational collapse, we haven't actually had 271 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: a full reckoning with the way in which our institutions 272 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: and our understanding of ourselves and our communities and our 273 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: interpersonal relationships sort of imploded on us. We haven't really 274 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: reckoned with that. But in the middle of that, after 275 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: about three months of berating the public that the highest 276 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: possible good they could engage with is to keep to 277 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: themselves and stay away from others, and if they had 278 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: to venture out then to observe a series of rituals 279 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: and protocols, then all of a sudden, all these voices 280 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: turned on a dime and decided that the highest social 281 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: good was to protest outside in the streets in an 282 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: act of contrition. It was a big, booming display of 283 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: pursuit of absolution for things that you couldn't possibly absolve 284 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: yourself of the principle on display in that moment. I'm 285 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: talking about the way in which public health advocates affixed 286 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: their name to an open letter that demanded you go 287 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: outside and protest, because racism is a public health emergency, 288 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: perhaps even a greater public health emergency than the actual 289 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: public health emergency. And it was that sort of principle 290 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: on display that manifested itself in some serious ways, but 291 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: also some very silly ways. So the protests were about 292 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: combating police violence. An unobjectionable principle is that local police 293 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: authorities generally should be subordinate to the communities they serve 294 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: and responsible to elected officials. That's a reasonable principle, one 295 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: that is unimpeachable, frankly, but it was de emphasized in 296 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: the pursuit of rather silly ways that this could manifest. 297 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: So one of those ways was the backlash against cop shows. 298 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: We were told that the good cop archtype is something 299 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: that could not and should not be allowed on television 300 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: in media generally, it resulted in the cancelation of programs 301 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: like Cops and Live PD shows that had done tangible good. 302 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: They had found missing persons, they had solved cold cases, 303 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: they had found felons at large. That tangible good was 304 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: subordinated to a theory, the theory being that this good 305 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 1: cop arc type had contributed to police abuses. The theory 306 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: went out over the facts, and perhaps the silliest manifestation 307 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: of this was a backlash against the Nickelodeon cartoon show 308 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: Paw Patrol. It's a cartoon show featuring cartoon dogs as 309 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: first responders. Was a New York Times article about the 310 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: backlash against this show and how it was contributing to 311 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: police violence. This silliness ultimately undermined the principle that was 312 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: at work here that police should be subordinate to the 313 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: communities they serve. Instead, it seemed to be elevated above 314 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: the principle. So we're left to conclude that it was 315 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: the display of zelotry, this big booming pageant of zeal 316 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: and self sacrifice, because they're sacrificing their entertainment too, not 317 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: just you, them too. They're making this sacrifice for the 318 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: greater good. But it was that sacrifice. It was this 319 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: display of labor, the work that was the ultimate objective here. 320 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: The principle itself fell by the wayside, ultimately to be 321 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: forgotten in favor of this big, booming display of sanctimony. 322 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: You see this again and again. I mean Disney's entire behavior, 323 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: which has been astonishingly unprofitable. I mean the amount they've 324 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: cost their shareholders as people reacted negatively to their aggressively 325 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: woke strategy. There's kind minishing comment on culture dominating economics. Yeah, 326 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: and so the commercial aspect of this is I think 327 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: one of the ways it probably falls apart. I think 328 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: this is encapsulated mostly in the phrase banned in Boston. 329 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: Band in Boston again back to the part of mainline Protestantism, 330 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: the incubator of progressivism in America as we understand it, 331 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: Banned in Boston was a phrase that warned of impure literature, 332 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: the calm stockery of the time, and the Society for 333 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: the Suppression of Vice, which mobilized in response to a 334 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: profound menace. Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman was very effective. 335 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: It effectively blocked the publication of that book in New England. 336 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: It bottlerized plays. It banned dime store novels that are 337 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: popular throughout the country. Songs couldn't be played on the 338 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: radio in this area, and it was a very effective 339 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: tool for warning the ethically and morally pure away from 340 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: impious literature. But the backlash materialized around it, and it 341 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: manifested in commercial ways, so that eventually banned in Boston 342 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: went from being a warning against impure literature to a 343 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: powerful advertisement for it. Publishers actively sought to have their 344 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: titles banned in Boston so that they could increase sales 345 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: across the country. And I think if there's a modern parallel, 346 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: it would be banned on Facebook, banned on Amazon. Because 347 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: when conservative books find themselves in the crosshairs of twenty 348 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: three year old censors who have no idea what they're 349 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: doing and limit access to this material, it advertises it 350 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: in ways that I don't think any pr campaign could accomplish. 351 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: These books become best sellers overnight only in response to 352 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: the overshooting the mark of the censors on the left 353 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: who would try to prevent you from having access to 354 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: this very seditious, titillating material. So the commercial aspect is 355 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: something you can't discount. Well, it's commasson to watch because 356 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: the extraordinary success of Top Gun Maverick, which was patriotic, 357 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: positive and has blown the doors off of everybody else 358 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: in terms of people coming out to see it. It'll 359 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: be exting to see whether or not Hollywood can resist 360 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: making money right. The obstacle of that has been China. Right. 361 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: Access to the Chinese market has been more lucrative than 362 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: Western markets, and this film among others, but this film 363 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,239 Speaker 1: most prominently bucked that trend in an old way and 364 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: was rewarded for the gamble. So yeah, it would be 365 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: interesting to see if anybody follows in their market. But 366 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: it was just a refreshing movie in so far as 367 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: it didn't beat you over the head with this plotting. 368 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: Didactic narrative meant to communicate whatever our contemporary sins are 369 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: and may force you to think about things for a 370 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, the country was actually interested in relaxing 371 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: and being entertained and feeling patriotic, and there's nothing wrong 372 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: with that. But the combinations of three things, you would 373 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: say that the new Puritanism would oppose all three parts 374 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: of it. Yes, yes, I mean part because it's a 375 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: waste of time. You are idle, you're actively not doing 376 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: the work, which means you're actively being influenced in ways 377 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: that they can't control, and that because they are mistrustful 378 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: of you, there's an element of condescension to a lot 379 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: of this. That they believe you to be rather easily influenced, 380 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: poorly educated, morally infirmed, and if you're not constantly being 381 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: burted with stimuli that reinforces the particular norms that they 382 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,239 Speaker 1: believe advanced the progressive project, and that cure us of 383 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: the ills of the society into which we were born, 384 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: this milieu in which we're steeped, which is corrupting. If 385 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: you're not constantly being beaten over the head with that, 386 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: you're steeping yourself in it, you're marinating in it, and 387 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: you will eventually emerge a bad person as a result 388 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: of that. That there's an education process that is unending, 389 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: and if it ever does end, it ends frankly with 390 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: you being a menace to your neighbors and to society, 391 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: and perpetuating the ills that you were born into and 392 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: flawed an imperfect union. One of the things I was by, 393 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: though I thought was particularly sobering, was that when you 394 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: were conducting interviews with a number of professionals, you found 395 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: a number who agreed with your premise, but didn't share 396 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: conservative politics. But you also found that there were a 397 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: number who really didn't want to talk on the record, 398 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: that they were genuinely concerned that if they told you 399 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: how they really felt that they would be risking their 400 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: career or risking their status. Yeah. Well they told me 401 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: how they really felt. They just can't print their names, 402 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean there are real consequences social and 403 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: professional and to a lesser degree legal, But still they're 404 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: out there for speaking your mind. How much do you 405 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: think this is a detour and how much do you 406 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: think it's potentially a really profound, long term change. So 407 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: that's an interesting question because I'm of two minds on it. 408 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: I think the shift back towards a progressive ethos away 409 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: from a classically liberal or just liberal sort of if 410 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: it feels good, do it mentality, sort of hedonism and 411 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: licentiousness that typified the baby boomer generation after the Sexual Revolution. 412 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: I think that was a passing fat I think progressivism 413 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: is here to stay. The kind of progressivism that manifests 414 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: in this totalistic, puritanical program for society, I don't think 415 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: that's long for this world. It is a cult of 416 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: misery and cults of misery do not have long shelf lives. 417 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: It will leave its mark on American politics it already has, 418 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: and society. It already has left an indelible and in 419 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: some ways laudable mark on the institutions it has trained 420 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 1: its fire on. But like the Puritans, who are not 421 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: remembered for all the great traditions they've bequeathed us, the Puritans, 422 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: Big pe Puritans are remembered as stereotypes, many of which 423 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: are laughable. They're laughing stocks. And I think frankly that 424 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: this book is an attempt to hasten what I believe 425 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: is already going to be an inevitable trend to finding 426 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: the humor in the ways in which these people are 427 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: making spectacles of themselves, sacrificing towards no end. I think 428 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: that eventually we'll be able to laugh at them. We're 429 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: not there yet, but I think it's coming. You may 430 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,239 Speaker 1: have found the title for your next book in the 431 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: Cult of Misery. Ah, I am looking for another pitch. 432 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: You got a strike while the iron's hot. I think 433 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: that is so intriguing and captures this very strange phenomenon. 434 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: I was recently doing Sean Hannity's radio show and we 435 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: were exploring why would you say that oil produced in 436 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: Texas and Pennsylvania and North Dakota is bad, but oil 437 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: produced in Venezuela and Iran and Saudi Arabia and Russia 438 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: is good. And I think it's part of this cult 439 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: of misery. I mean, I think you have a phrase 440 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: there that you could become very famous with. Thank you, sir. 441 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to rush out and capitalize on this now 442 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: patent pending. That's right, that the trick is trademarket before 443 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: anybody else thinks of it. It's great, listen. I really 444 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: appreciate you doing this. This is fascinating. I think you've 445 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: had some marvelous insights. We are certainly going to promote 446 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: your book, which I think is a real contribution to 447 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: understanding what's happening in America, and we're going to have 448 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: the Rise of the New Puritans fighting back against progressives. 449 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: War and fund will be on our show page with 450 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: a link, and I hope it does extraordinarily well. Lester Speaker, 451 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's been a privilege to talk 452 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: to you, and I really appreciate your endorsement. That's very 453 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: high praised. Thank you to my guest Noah Rothman. You 454 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: can get a link to buy his new book, The 455 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: Rise of the New Puritans on our showpage at Newtsworld 456 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: dot com. News World is produced by Gingriche three sixty 457 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Slope, our producer 458 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: is Rebecca Hall, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 459 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley Special 460 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: Place the team at Gingwidge three sixty. If you've been 461 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and 462 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 463 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 464 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: listeners of newts World can sign up for my three 465 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: free weekly columns at Gangwige three sixty dot com slash newsletter. 466 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: I'm newt Gangwige. This is Newtsworld.