WEBVTT - My coworker is unbearably negative 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.960 My colleagues, We'll stop commenting on everything I get as 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.680 people and meeting. Why does my coworker keep taking credit 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.240 for all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi? 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.800 I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast. Right 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.680 answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything from 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.080 what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers perfume 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:23.919 to what to do if you drink too much at 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:29.720 the company party. Let's get started. Being around negative people 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.960 who complain all the time can be exhausting, and when 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.720 that negative person is your coworker and you're trapped in 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.599 an office with them, it can be really draining not 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:40.800 to be able to get away from this constant flow 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.080 of complaints. And that is the situation that today's collar 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.720 is in. Hi and welcome to the show. Hi, thank 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.199 you for helping me. Allison. Well, let's see you have 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.440 a pretty intractable problem here, So let's see if you 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.080 still feel that way at the end of the show. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.240 So you have a co worker who is incredibly negative. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.920 She's a bookkeeper who comes in a few times a month, 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:03.720 and she shares an office with you when she does, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.160 and she complains constantly about life and about work, and 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.959 to really paint a picture here. In your letter to me, 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.920 you wrote that her negative rants go on and on 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.520 to the point that, to quote your letter, I want 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.920 to take a shower from the negativity in the room. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.520 When she leaves, I open windows and vacuum and play 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:28.520 happy music. I'm not exaggerating, Nope. You you also wrote, 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.920 I feel like this is a non consensual therapy relationship, 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.680 and she just expects me to be her therapist, and 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.880 you're looking for a way to set boundaries with her 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.240 and maybe talk to her about the negativity without hurting 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.000 her feelings, or at least in a way that is 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.040 socially acceptable to say. Am I getting all that right? 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.480 That is exactly right she and you know I should say, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.240 because the letter was written in a point of frustration, 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.600 that she is a lovely person like overall, like I mean, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.840 she's she has such a great heart, and she's such 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.000 a great human being. It's just that mindset is so 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.160 negative that just some stuff comes out, and so I 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:05.880 don't That's part of the reason. I just really don't 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.600 want to hurt her feelings or I don't I want 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.519 to be more socially conscious of her just because um, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.720 you know, she is lovely, just just hard to be with. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.160 It's really draining, I think, to be around someone who 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:22.000 is just so negative, and it's especially hard at work 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.000 where you need to focus and you're this trapped, captive 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.239 audience who can't just walk away because you've got to 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.280 sit there and try to work. How long has this 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.480 been going on? This is I've been with this company 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.200 for almost three years and it's twice a month for 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.760 three years, um, and she'll come in for a couple 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.320 of hours twice a month, which thankfully it's not every 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:41.920 day like it was every day. I don't know if 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.200 I could have stayed with the company, but like, you know, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.839 twice a month is like, but yeah, it's a while, Yeah, yeah, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.320 I mean it's a blessing. I guess that it's only 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.280 twice a month, but if it's really intense, I bet 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.440 it feels like a lot. What kinds of things does 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.639 she complain about? Oh my gosh. I mean it can 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.400 go from something that's going on, you know. Sometimes it's 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.880 just sharing something in her life with her, you know, 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.240 marriage or her household, or guests coming into stay, or 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.800 her recent trip on. Sometimes it's just local news in 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.960 the area. Sometimes it's national news. I mean, it's pretty 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.959 much if I a conversation topic comes up, it's going 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.120 to go in a negative direction. I think occasionally I'll 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.280 find a couple of safe topics that she can that 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.840 like it's only like semi negative, where it's not as bad. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.680 But like, sometimes she can get so worked up on 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.440 stuff that she'll get emotional, even over stuff, which can 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.120 be really hard to deal with when I'm trying to 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.440 take calls or handle stuff at work as well. Fascinating. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.080 I feel like I've had a few people like this 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.840 in my life, maybe not to this extent, because as 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.680 we get into the details that you shared in your letter, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.800 I think it really sounds a lot worse than the 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.440 way chronic complainers usually present. But I think in general 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.480 it's so unpleasant to be around. But the thing that 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.839 is fascinat aeting to me is that for the complainer, 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.360 a lot of the time, it doesn't seem to be 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.520 unpleasant to them at all. It's almost like they get 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.160 some kind of enjoyment from the complaining, but it's not 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.120 clear why. To some extent, I kind of think maybe 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.520 they just have a different tolerance for unpleasant conversation. Like 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.880 A really minor example of this is that my mother 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:26.000 loves to complain about frustrating customer service experiences, Like I 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.200 don't know why that's her thing, but she loves it, 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.560 and she takes real joy in recounting in great detail 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.640 the frustrating conversation that she had with the phone company 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.800 or with the plumber. And when I say she takes 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.200 joy in it, she really seems to love it, like 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.040 I guess that it's venting, but with her, it seems 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.240 like a form of storytelling that she finds interesting and entertaining, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.720 but which I find highly stressful to listen to. I mean, 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.640 I have my own annoying customer service experiences and I 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.960 don't need the stress of anyone else's. And she especially 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:00.920 likes to call me after I've had a really long 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.080 and stressful work day and launch into these lengthy diatribes. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.720 So I eventually had to ban her from doing it 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.200 because it really does stress me out. And I think 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.960 she was baffled by that because she doesn't find it stressful, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.400 she's entertained by talking about it, so she can't relate. 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.120 So I wonder, is your sense that your coworker is 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.240 sort of a happy grump in that way. I mean, 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.840 I don't know that it right, that's exactly what's up. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.719 I'm glad you've pinpointed that because that's yeah, that's exactly it. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.159 And I love that too, because it's always it's always 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.400 like when you know, like you really don't need it too, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.120 like you're like, you know, I really didn't need this today, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.400 like I I have. I'm working on my own stuff here. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.560 So yeah, I love your I love your story about 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.160 your mom there. That's awesome because I do think there 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.400 are some people where they're not a happy crump, like 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.680 their energy is just all dirt clouds totally aside from 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.480 the actual content of what they're saying. But then there 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.440 are these people who like really do seem to take 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:58.679 a lot of pleasure in the negative stuff that they're sharing. Yeah, 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.680 absolutely fascinating. Now, when he said before that it feels 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.680 like she wants you to be her therapist. Is she 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.839 also like trying to get you to talk through her 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.800 problems with you or does she just want someone to listen. Well, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.839 what's interesting is that she treats it like she wants 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.880 me to talk through it with her, but she doesn't 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.360 actually want that. So what will happen is when we 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.400 are talking, I'm she'll just start on a on a 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.680 monologue about something like maybe, um, you know, she had 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.120 an argument with her husband the night before, so she'll 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.800 start talk. She'll just be like, oh, my husband sucks. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.560 And then she'll just start arguing, like saying like we 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.680 have this argument, she's so annoying and all of that, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.359 and she'll like get try to get my confirmation, Like 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.600 she'll be like isn't that terrible? Like isn't that the worst? Um? 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.039 And I'm just like and sometimes it's I've tried where 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.160 I'm just like sure, yeah, and then like I just 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.080 changed topics. Um. I do a lot of just body language. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.520 It's like I'm not interested in hearing more. Sometimes I'm like, 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.200 you know, um, I don't know. It sounds like he's right. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.520 Like when I'm like just finding any way to change 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.159 the subject. Sometimes I just changed the subject. But like 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.120 if i'm if I'm asking her outright like how you know, well, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.440 what did you do? Like how did that happen? And 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.720 she'll she'll just start making it like talking worse about it, 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.880 like I don't know how to explain it completely, but 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.360 like she just kind of keeps It's it's almost like 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.520 she wants my confirmation about how terrible it is, but 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.400 she doesn't actually want me to help her with the problem, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.920 and she just wants to vent. As you're saying it, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.160 I'm thinking how funny it would be if you actually 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.120 just like double down on the negativity. I don't actually 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.480 recommend this, but like, it's interesting. There was one time 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.720 where we were talking um and she was complaining about 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.960 some people who were visiting and they've been there for 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:43.600 way too long. They were just kind of staying in 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.080 her house and she doesn't have she's not very good 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.080 at setting boundaries with people, and so what she what 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:50.720 was happening is these people were just staying at her 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.000 house and she's like, my husband's just telling me that 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:54.560 I should just tell them to leave. And I was like, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:56.440 I agree with your husband, you need to tell them 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.280 to leave. And she's like and she just had a 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.760 huge argument with her husband over this, and she was 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.360 like she just kind of gave me this like startled look, 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.680 and then she just kept going like talking about how 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.840 terrible it is that they're there. And I'm like, all right, 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.600 I'm gonna go file stuff like all right then, yeah, 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.240 So it really does make me wonder that what would 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:14.880 happen if you were like, yeah, your husband is a 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:19.840 huge oh my gosh. Right. I think she'd just be like, yeah, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:21.560 I agree with you, and then she'd like tell me 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.320 more stories about it. I'm like, I don't want to 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:28.840 keep this going so alight that happen to think about it, though, 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.760 Let's talk about what you have tried to do, because 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.760 I know from your letter that you have tried a 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.040 whole bunch of different strategies and none of them have worked. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:41.080 So will you run through what you've tried so far? Absolutely? 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.760 I can do that. So one thing I've tried is 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.920 finding some certain safe subjects that work. That's like food. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.040 For example, we can talk about food. I'm I'm I'm vegan, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.120 and she's fascinated with that, so we talk about that 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.760 sometimes and she'll tell me about a restaurant she went to. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.839 I'm in Like the complainings minimal there, so it kind 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.680 of makes it less negative, but it is, and actually 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.400 like there's no positive subjects with her. Sometimes I'm just 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.680 I make sure I'm really busy with other things, and 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.240 I like save up. There's certain work that I can't 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.280 do when she's there, so I just save up the 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.839 work that I have to do when she's there, um, 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.240 which it works okay, but sometimes she just like monologues 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:18.920 in between, Like I'll make a phone call and I'll 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.920 get off the call and then she'll just monologue at 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.520 me for a little bit um while she's working, or 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.679 she'll just talk to herself, like if I'm going and 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.160 filing in the other room, she'll just like throw She'll 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.120 be like complaining about the work she's doing, or like 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.320 why does he do this? What's this? In the retorting 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.760 questions that sound like she actually wants me to like 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.240 jump in, but she doesn't, And I have to keep 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:38.800 checking because I kind of need to know what she 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.679 needs sometimes to take a lunch when she's there, And 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.760 though it's not always, I'm not able to do it 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.600 all the time. Sometimes I told you about just disagreeing 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.319 with her, like, um, you know my husband should just 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.000 tell them to leave, and I'm like, yeah, I agree 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.600 with your husband. She just kind of moves on. I'll 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.679 ask her what she you know, the big thing is 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.440 the thing where she'll be complaining. I'll say, you know, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.520 what are you gonna do? About that, and she'll go, 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.960 I don't know, and then she'll continue to rant, and 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.160 sometimes she'll just rant about how she doesn't know what 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.440 to do, but she doesn't actually want to know what 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.199 to do. She just wants to complain about how she 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.760 does know what to do. And then sometimes I'll say like, hey, 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.640 I can't talk right now, I need to do this work. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.559 And then she, like I said earlier, she just does 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.920 the little comments like she'll be working and she'll be like, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.640 why does he work it this way? Or why does 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.000 this happen this way? Or you know, what's this supposed 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.079 to be? And I don't know, like what I'm supposed 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.760 to jump in on and what I'm not. So I'll 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.880 just be listening to her talking in the other room 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.080 and then she'll just yell my name, and I'll I'll 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.480 jump in and I'll be like, oh right, sorry, wasn't listening. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:37.920 Let's take a quick break here and then come back 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:47.680 and talk about what to do. One of the things 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.120 that was so fascinating to me about your letter is 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.280 that you have already tried the things that I would 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.520 normally suggest that you try, and that in most cases 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.160 would have some effect on the person but she is 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.240 impervious to all of the normal things that you would 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.160 try in this situation. The thing about asking her, so 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.000 what do you plan to do about whatever negative thing 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.840 she's complaining about? Sometimes can work really well because I 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.520 mean clearly not here, but but sometimes it will get 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.920 the person out of venting mode. And honestly, sometimes the 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.319 reason it works is not because it actually shifts them 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.800 into action mode, but because it makes you an unsatisfying 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.520 person to vent to. Because if someone just wants to 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.360 vent and they keep hearing in response, well, so what 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.559 are you going to do about it? Often they will 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.760 take their venting somewhere else because you're no fun to 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.679 vent to at that point. But that apparently did not 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.240 work with her. I learned that from you, Alison, so 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.360 that's why I did it. Let you down. This is terrible. 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.440 It works in other areas too, It's worked before, just 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.520 not with this particular person. Okay, see, she's very she's 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.120 very tricky. It's interesting. I do think there are up 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.760 at different options that you can still try. Um, let's 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.160 talk more about the strategy of being busy with work 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.560 while she's there. So if you directly say I can't 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.440 talk now, I have to focus on work, she just 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.199 starts talking out loud to herself, right, yes, exactly when 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.200 that happens. Have you ever tried saying, Hey, I'm sorry, 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.200 but I've got to focus over here. Can I ask 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.080 you not to talk to yourself while I'm working? I 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.839 have not asked her to do that. Would you feel 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.120 comfortable doing that? Because I think it's a reasonable thing 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.440 to do, But I also know that it's the kind 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.520 of thing that some people feel awkward about doing. I 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.400 think she would be really annoyed with me, But I'm 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.920 kind of okay with that, So, um, i'd be comfortable 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.160 asking her to be quiet. It's funny, I haven't even 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.720 really thought of doing that, but yeah, that's I could 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.520 definitely ask her to hey, could you not talk to yourself? 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.720 That would probably help that she might even do it. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.760 She just might just be really annoyed in the process. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.439 But I mean, I'm okay with that. Yeah. I think 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.280 you may have to get any of these to work. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.559 You may have to accept that she's going to be 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.719 a little annoyed with you, but that that's okay. I mean, 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.680 her being annoyed with you is not the worst thing 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.080 in the world. You're really annoyed with her, right now, 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.440 that's true, spread out a little bit. Yeah. I think 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.600 often people don't think to just be very direct about 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.560 that because when someone is sort of already acting in 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.320 a way that is outside the bounds of like the 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.480 social contract that we normally have with each other about 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.120 what isn't isn't okay, behavior like what she's doing is 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.560 sort of outside those bounds, and I think when someone 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.680 is it can be hard for the other person, you 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.920 in this case, to to even know what to do 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.440 because this person isn't playing by the same rules that 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.120 you're used to people playing by. So I'm not surprised 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:47.760 that it hasn't that you haven't thought, Oh, I could 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.640 just ask that, but I would, I would try that, 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.000 you know, say you know, hey, I'm sorry, I've got 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.240 to focus over here. Can I ask you to not 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.240 talk while I'm working? And then if she starts back up, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.240 and she might because I suspect it's deeply ingrained habit 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.439 with her, you can remind her. I mean, you can say, Jane, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.880 I really need to focus on what I'm doing. I've 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.719 got to ask you to stop doing that, and you can, 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.400 you know, you can be nice about it you can. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:14.280 It can sound like fake, exasperated or whatever tone works 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.199 for the relationship. You might need to do it a 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.280 few times in order to kind of train her, maybe 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.000 even more than a few times, but I bet if 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.880 you did it enough, it would eventually help. That's a 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.760 good point too. Yeah, And you know, it's interesting as 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.720 you're saying this, because she's been doing this for a 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.680 couple of years. I wonder I'm kind of wondering if 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.520 maybe a big picture conversation before that might be helpful, 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.600 like to talk to about hey, sometimes you know, and 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.880 sometimes honestly, like there's times where I don't have as 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.600 much work to do when she's there because I'm still waiting. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.680 I'm kind of waiting on her, So they're going to 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.360 be times where that won't be the case. But while 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.640 I'm working, maybe she'll be able to calm down or 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.280 I can save up work then and do it more 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.200 when she's around. So I kind of love that. And 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.480 maybe even just something as as you're saying this, I'm 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.520 just thinking of like, hey, like sometimes when you're talking 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.880 aloud to yourself, it might be I get distracted. Could 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.520 you would you mind just not talking out loud to 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.520 yourself like that, it's really hard for me to focus. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.560 That's perfect, it's polite. She may still be annoyed, but 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.680 it's it's really I mean, any outside observer looking at 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.040 that would say that's a perfectly reasonable, polite request. It's 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.200 a place of work. You know that there's a recourse 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.840 that we have to make of each other. Sometimes I 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.200 like the idea of you doing that kind of big 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.680 picture like, hey, sometimes this is distracting, and then in 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.800 the moment, if it's continuing to happen, you can say like, hey, 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.840 I've got to ask you to to rain that in 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.200 or hold that down, and she'll have that framework that 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.640 you've already set up of understanding what you're asking. I 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.520 kind of love that. It also kind of it makes 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.040 the problem that she's talking and not what how negative 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.320 she is, because I'm not going to change that about her. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.800 So but I can have her talk list, which is 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.000 which is an improvement. So yes, absolutely, And I think 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.800 I want to talk a little bit more about worrying 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.800 that she might be annoyed, because I think so often 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.840 that constrains people. And she's similar to yours, um where 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.520 people feel like I've I've exhausted all the things that 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.320 I feel polite saying, the person is still engaging in 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.360 the problematic behavior, so now I'm out of options. But 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.760 I think sometimes to get this kind of thing to stop, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.640 you have to get creative and not feel constrained by 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.640 the same etiquette that you would follow with someone behaving 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.120 more normally. And it's possible she won't even find it 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:35.000 rude because clearly she's not using the same etiquette playbooks. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.240 But even if she does think it's a little rude 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.240 or something that's okay. I mean, it's not like you're 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.720 calling her a jerk. You're telling her that you need 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.520 to focus on work, and you'll be doing it more 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.160 assertively than you have previously. But again, I mean the 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.440 reason for that is that her behavior is so out 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.200 of the norm. So I think it's okay to do 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.520 something that doesn't feel perfectly polite here because she's created 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.440 a situation where you're sort of force too. None of 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.760 that is to say that what we're talking about isn't polite. 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.800 I mean, the sort of conversation that you're proposing is 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.960 very polite. I think where you might start feeling less 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.959 polite is if you have to do those follow up 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.280 reminders where you're like, hey, you've got to keep it 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.000 down over there, But that's really okay to do. Yeah, 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.960 that's a really good point. Um, Now if that doesn't work, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.760 because I want to be realistic that she so far 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:29.240 has seemed immune to all reasonable tactics. M one other thing, 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.760 I mean, our headphones an option you could explain at 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.960 the outset, Hey have started wearing headphones because they helped 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.320 me concentrate, And then maybe you could just play music 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.600 and block her out while she's there. That's something I 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.359 would have done, except that I'm it's just not an 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.440 option where she is so because I have to take 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.160 calls at the other So I switched desks and all 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.880 my music and anything I would normally play because I'm 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:51.879 I'm very fortunately get to work alone a lot at 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.520 the time, so I play music all the time in 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.120 the office, but I don't get to I don't get 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.800 to do that when she's there. So got it? Okay? Um, Yeah, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.480 I'm it might be that at some point you've got 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.760 to figure you can cut down on some of this 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.920 by telling her directly, but that there's always going to 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:09.800 be something that you can't get away from. If you 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.800 need to interact with her. But taking it from like 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.480 if it's a ten, now, taking it down to a 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.919 four would probably still be a huge improvement in your 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.120 quality of lice. Yeah, especially because it's only twice a month, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.240 Like you know, tend to a four. I can work 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.680 with the four. So we'll pause here for a quick 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:35.159 break and then we'll be right back. So we were 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.520 talking about addressing it head on, about the talking, but 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.959 I think potentially you could also address the negativity. Like 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.439 I would start with just the talking piece of it 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.080 and see where that gets you. If that gets you 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.919 down to a four, then great, But if she if 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.000 it doesn't really take care of the problem, and there's 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.280 still lots of negativity being exuded into your space, and 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.200 you want to talk about the negativity. In theory, I'm 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.520 hesitating here because if you were around her daily, I 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.640 would say to definitely do what I'm about to advise. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.560 Since you're not, I don't know that it's worth it. 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.160 But in theory, at some point you could say something 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.760 to her like, hey, I don't know if you realize 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.280 how often you've vent here about things that you feel 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.440 really negatively about. But it's a lot and it can 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.199 be really tough to work around that. And you know, 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.720 I try to keep a more positive energy in here 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.359 and always being so negative as making my own job unpleasant. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.480