1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio previously on 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami. So it's the fall of nineteen eighty 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: four and basically, you agree to go to Georgia to 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: help Lamar Chester, who you fully believe is a drug 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: smuggler and who fully believes that you were in the CIA, 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: create a gray mail defense. 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: Pretty much. Yeah. 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Operation Lone Star was a sprawling federal investigation of money laundering. 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Lamar Chester's involvement with a Nasau trust company and ownership 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: of islands became the focus. 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: There's over ten thousand coal cases in Miami Dade, which 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 3: is a staggering number. The eighties were a very large 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: part of the ten thousand cases. 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: The star witness, in fact, the whole point of the 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: hearings was this tall, slim woman in her thirties, Leslie Bickerton, 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: who the newspapers were building as Lamar's bookkeeper and mistress. 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 4: The government had been implying, if not outright stating with 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 4: witnesses fed to alligators, the portrayal that they were doing 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 4: of Lamar Chester. 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: Chester had told her that he quote got rid of 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: a man and fed him to the alligators. And she 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: says that he mentioned the man's name as Ed Clayton. Hey, Lauren, Hey, Phil, 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: So I think I actually found Leslie Bickerton. Definitely the 24 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: right one. 25 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: Are you sure you spoke to her? 26 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: Not exactly so I've been texting the correct number, but 27 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I connected with her brother that she 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: responded to me. 29 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: And what'd you say? 30 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: That's a little complicated. So she's not willing to speak 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: with me yet, but she is willing to communicate via 32 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: an encrypted service so nobody can intercept our communication. 33 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: I guess, well, why all the secrecy. 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: Because Phil, after all these years, she's still afraid for 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: her life. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is murder 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: in Miami. When Leslie Bickerton and I first connected in 37 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty two, she insisted that going forward, 38 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: we only do so in an absolutely secure way as 39 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: an end to end encryption. Once we settled on a means, 40 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: it still took her over an hour to respond to 41 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: my initial explanation of who I was and why I 42 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: was reaching out. She was extremely guarded and acious as 43 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: to exactly why I was searching for her. After stressing 44 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: she was extremely private and extremely careful as to who 45 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: she let into her life, she offered me this ominous 46 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: warning quote, you have no idea, she typed, what you 47 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: are stepping into. Trust me, she continued, I know this 48 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: as a fact, unquote. The Leslie Bickerton I would grow 49 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: to know bit by bit and over months of encrypted 50 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: texting was a woman who still very much bore the 51 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: scars of the experience of crossing paths with many of 52 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: the names you've now heard, especially Bob Adams and Lamar Chester. 53 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: It became obvious that, unlike Phil who has an interesting 54 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: tendency to look back on even the more troubling aspects 55 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: of his experience with intercept with a bit of a 56 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: bemused chuckle, Leslie finds nothing amusing about having been drawn 57 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: into a federal investigation. In fact, she still lives in 58 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: fear of the individual she became intertwined with, even the 59 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: one she still hasn't identified. Our early communications were halting, sporadic, 60 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: and somewhat cryptic, as I sought to give her a 61 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: level of comfort and trust while dealing with the limitations 62 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: of texting. What became very clear, though, was her significant 63 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,559 Speaker 1: trepidation over revisiting the lone star period of her life 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: at all, and her belief that sinister forces beyond her 65 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: control at the time were still at work. Today. Like Phil, 66 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: she seemed to be struggling to put together the pieces 67 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: of that period of her life. But unlike Phil, she 68 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: very much felt to be a target of violent threats. Quote. 69 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: There was a contract out on me, and I know 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: much more than I should, she texted, But I was 71 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: too naive and stupid not to realize what I was 72 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: involved with and had to find out a lot more 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: after the fact. Unquote. She went on to offer this 74 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: warning if I decided to proceed, quote, be very careful. 75 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: When I updated Phil, it was with a much greater 76 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: sense of concern about the story we were tackling. 77 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: So are you still texting? 78 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, just texting. But you know, I have to say 79 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: she is extremely concerned about her safety and honestly very 80 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: convinced that I'm putting myself in harm's way by even 81 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: revisiting any of this. 82 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: Oh come on, now, I've been poking around this the 83 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: last ten to fifteen years, and the heat is off. 84 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: I can understand she would have been worried back then, 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: for sure, bodies turning up all over the place, but 86 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: it's been forty years now. 87 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you weren't even indicted. She was a witness, 88 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: and she believed at the time she was told there 89 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: was a contract out on her life, and she's still afraid. 90 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: I think part of the reason why it was so 91 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: hard to find her was because she went to great 92 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: lengths not to be found. 93 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: It's been hiding for forty years. That's no, it's no 94 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: way to live. 95 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,559 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's easy for us to say, 96 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: but she was told her life was in danger and 97 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: that people were incentivized to kill her for payment. And 98 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: even if that's no longer the case, it's not like 99 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: she ever got some kind of formal update that her 100 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: nightmare was over. 101 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: You know. 102 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,679 Speaker 1: It's like they've been playing a capture the Flag game 103 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 1: and it moved on and ended, but she's still in hiding. 104 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: Nobody told her it was over. 105 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: Well, maybe if she talked to me, I could assure 106 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: of something or other. I mean, I understand that she 107 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: was scared at one time. Once upon a time, there 108 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: was certainly something to be scared of, and I'm still 109 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 2: trying to figure it out myself. So maybe we have 110 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: that in common. 111 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Leslie and I would continue communicating via encrypted texts for 112 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: several months, bonding over our shared love for all things canine, 113 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: eventually swapping photos of our dogs and piecing together. Are 114 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: still evolving grasp of what happened during the Low Star investigation. 115 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: She also shared she found Chester's claims to have been 116 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: involved with CIA operations plausible. The CIA, she wrote, has 117 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: a long involvement with a drug trade since Vietnam, Heroin 118 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: and cocaine ongoing in Latin America, the Bahamas, Africa, Middle East, 119 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: especially Afghanistan. It's a Pandora's box unquote for anyone not familiar. 120 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: Pandora's box basically means opening an endless source of troubles. 121 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: It springs from a Greek myth about the world's first woman, Pandora, 122 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: whose curiosity led to the unleashing of evil upon mankind. 123 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: Leslie eventually agreed to speak with me over the phone, 124 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,119 Speaker 1: but it would be another several months before she would 125 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: consent to taping our conversations. By the time I heard 126 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: her voice, I very much felt I knew the woman 127 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: it belonged to. 128 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,119 Speaker 6: Going back forty one years, I never saw it coming, 129 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 6: had no idea, but then I didn't grow up with 130 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 6: those kinds of people. I understand it now. I was 131 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 6: just so trusting and naive, really naive. I've realized this 132 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 6: over the years. What happened to me from forty one 133 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 6: years ago has been with me my entire life. 134 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 7: I mean, it stole my life and I stole my voice. 135 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: And she's internalized that loss for forty years. 136 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 7: I've never told anybody what I've told you. 137 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: In the course of our extensive exchanges, Bickerton, who had 138 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: been reduced to almost a cliche in the articles I'd 139 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: read covering Chester and Lone Star, would reveal herself to 140 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: be a complicated and fiercely intelligent woman with a wry 141 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: sense of humor and a rather fascinating unorthodox upbringing. 142 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 6: Part of my life, I grew up in New England, 143 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 6: camping and hiking and sailing. My father always had us 144 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 6: out in the middle of nowhere, all of us, and 145 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 6: I'm the oldest in my family. My mother always said 146 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 6: she never know if he'd come back from a hurricane. 147 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 6: My father was like, let's go watch the hurricanes come 148 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 6: in the tide, the water everything. 149 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: Her father was the pioneering venture capitalist John Bickerton, as 150 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: legendary in the field of finance for his innovative influence, 151 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: as he was for his eclectic personality, despite his considerable 152 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: career accomplishments and belonging to a rarefied social realm that 153 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: included Rockefellers. According to his obituary quote, he was happiest 154 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: walking along the Marblehead Causeway during the height of a 155 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: hurricane with his eager children in tow, waiting for the 156 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: next rogue wave to hit the causeway wall and drench 157 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: them all. Unquote. 158 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 6: I grew up that way my whole life. It was 159 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 6: a sense of adventure. We knew the people who started 160 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 6: outward bound, where you go on remote islands as kids 161 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 6: and you learn how to survive on your own. This 162 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 6: is not one of these all inclusive resort. 163 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: This wasn't club med. 164 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 6: It was not club med. No, no, no no. And 165 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 6: I know how to hunt, and I know how to fish. 166 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 6: And because I grew up part of my life in 167 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 6: the Hawaiian Islands, I knew how to fish what they 168 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 6: call a Hawaiian sling. Are you familiar with that? 169 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 7: Okay? So this is all. 170 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 6: With indigenous in the Hawaiians. So a Hawaiian sling is 171 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 6: basically a spear. 172 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 7: We would take a. 173 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 6: Piece of wood, hollow it out in the middle and 174 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 6: take surgical tubing and wrap it so it adhere's to 175 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 6: that wooden tube. It's like a bow and arrow, okay, 176 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 6: except that the stainless steel shaft is probably maybe like 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 6: five feet long with a barb on it. So with 178 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 6: the Hawaiian sling, you hold your breath and you go 179 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 6: snorkel and you dive underneath the water to catch your food. 180 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 6: I mean we all free dived. We didn't have tanks. 181 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: And in addition to mastering outdoor survival techniques, sailing was 182 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: also a huge part of a Bickerton upbringing and remains 183 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: a particular passion for Leslie. 184 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 6: Being a New Englander, we look down on people with 185 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 6: motor boats, just like, if you're going to be a sailor, 186 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 6: you better learn how to sail, You better know how 187 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 6: to read the sky, how to read the water, all 188 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 6: of it. 189 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: By the time Leslie Bickerton, who also dabbled in modeling 190 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: while living in Hawaii, crossed paths with Lamar Chester, she 191 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: was barely thirty years old and fully putting her upbringing 192 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: around finance and formal training and taxation and accounting to 193 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: work in an environment she knew very well the Cayman Islands. 194 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 6: The beginning of nineteen eighty one, I was over in 195 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 6: the Cayman Islands before I had even heard of Lamar Chester. 196 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 6: I was working in the Caymans because I have a 197 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 6: CPA background and an international tax background. In the Caymans, 198 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 6: a person named Stephen Greenberg. 199 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: Greenburg was the Miami based tax attorney who started working 200 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: with Chester after Lance Eisenberg was indicted. 201 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 6: Who was there vacationing with his family. I met him 202 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 6: to the Christian that I was working with working for, 203 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 6: and Stephen asked, you know if I be interested in 204 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 6: meeting Lamar Chester over in the state side. This man 205 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 6: owned some islands in the Bahamas, was looking for somebody 206 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 6: to do offshore work, and that he might be interested 207 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 6: in the work that we do with offshore accounts. 208 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: Offshore accounts are utilized for what purpose? 209 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 6: To utilize for both legitimate and illegitimate people, banks, trust companies, 210 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 6: people with a tremendous amount of money, So Hollywood people, 211 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 6: wealthy people in the States, wealthy people from other countries, 212 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 6: religious organizations such as the Mormon Church. 213 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 7: We met. 214 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 6: Yes, you'd be very surprised at what people where they 215 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 6: put their money, and businesses and corporations who have sub corporations, 216 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 6: insurance companies. Illegitimate people like the mob, you know, mafia, drugs, smuggling, guns, smuggling, 217 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 6: trying to where they so called wash their money to 218 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 6: make it look legitimate coming into the Cayman Islands setting 219 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 6: up a bank. So you could actually set up a bank, 220 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 6: a legitimate bank, a trust company and put your illegal 221 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 6: money in there if it's illegitimate money or you don't 222 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 6: want to pay the taxes to the IRS right instead 223 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 6: of being paid directly by another company for your work, 224 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 6: you have that money then deposited directly into what they 225 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 6: call an offshore account. Thereby it never touches directly the 226 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 6: state site where the IRS can get a hold of 227 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 6: it and legitimately say, hey, you know, you owe x 228 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 6: amount of money based on your earnings that year. And 229 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 6: then you can use that money then to set up 230 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 6: another bank. You can get pretty detailed and involved. But 231 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 6: then you can have a subsidiary in the US. So 232 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 6: all this money gets washed almost like the tides coming 233 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 6: in and out, and it's been there for a long time, 234 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 6: it hasn't changed. So that's what offshore does literally physically, 235 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 6: you're not having your funds come directly into the United States, So. 236 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: It's a gray area. 237 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 7: Very great. 238 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not necessarily legal, but it's not necessarily illegal exactly, 239 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: which is exactly why the very rich, whether by illicit 240 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: means or not, are very fond of offshore accounts as 241 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: a means of hiding their assets. Those islands have always 242 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: been known as tax havens for the rich and famous. 243 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, there are a lot of loopholes that these 244 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 6: big tax lawyers confine that are so buried, very sophisticated 245 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 6: individual loopholes. 246 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: Apparently Lamar Chester was interested in utilizing some of these 247 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: sophisticated loopholes when he initiated a meeting with Leslie in person, 248 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: which would, as with Phil Stanford, take place at the 249 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: mutiny in Coconut Grove in February of nineteen eighty one. 250 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 6: I met him for dinner at a hotel that they 251 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 6: had put me in, so I did not know of 252 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 6: this hotel ahead of time. I had not a clue 253 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 6: this hotel apparently was known for all the drugs smugglers. 254 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: Did he make it clear at that dinner meeting why 255 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: he wanted to hire you and what he wanted you 256 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: to do for him. 257 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,239 Speaker 6: He was interested in my background, just my own personal background, 258 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 6: so the sailing and the growing up on islands, and 259 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 6: the tax and the CPA, and thought that he could 260 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 6: utilize my expertise for lack of a work to help 261 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 6: him with different businesses that he had running in the 262 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 6: Bahamas and maybe elsewhere, and maybe setting up an account 263 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 6: in the Caymans. 264 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 7: It was at that time that he told. 265 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 6: Me that he on these islands in the Bahamas, and 266 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 6: if I ever wanted to go there or stay there, 267 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 6: I'd be welcome to he'd arrange it for me. Back 268 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 6: in that time, I mean I wasn't married, I didn't 269 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 6: own a homes, I didn't own a car. 270 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 7: I had a sailboat. 271 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: So the option of living on the island was something 272 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: that made the job offer appealing to Leslie's sense of adventure, 273 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: even if there seemed to be some strings attached. 274 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 6: I don't know if at the first meaning he told 275 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 6: me he was married or not, I'm not sure. 276 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 7: And he also had. 277 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 6: A farm or some kind of a farm up in Georgia. 278 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 6: But again the hook for me was the islands and 279 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 6: the Bahamas. 280 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: And the hook for Chester was likely in part the 281 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: very unique access the privileged patrician and bohemian somewhat sheltered 282 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: beauty sitting before him could provide, in addition to her 283 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: offshore tax shelter savvy. How much older was Chester than 284 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: you were twenty years something like that. Yes, so you're 285 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: barely in your thirties and he is a much more 286 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: sophisticated worldly man. And it sounds like he is honing 287 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: in on what makes you tick that first night at 288 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: dinner and realizes that the islands that he owns would 289 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: be a huge draw for you. 290 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 7: Yes. 291 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: Do you look back in retrospect and feel like he 292 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: was reading you? 293 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 7: You know, it's an interesting question, Lauren. 294 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 6: I've come to recognize far too late in life that 295 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 6: I don't think that way, and I didn't recognize that 296 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 6: other people do think that way, that they size you 297 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 6: up to see what they can get from you. I've 298 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 6: never been that way. It's a flaw in one sense, 299 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 6: because it leaves you vulnerable. So yes, he sized me 300 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 6: up immediately. And it was with the islands. Darby and 301 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 6: the Bahamas have an opportunity to go there, and I thought, sure, okay, 302 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 6: why not? 303 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: It's a hell of a piece of bait to have 304 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: this island paradise that you can offer to people as 305 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: a place to visit, a place to live that seems 306 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: like it's completely protected and utopia. Yes, yes, I was 307 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: struck the Bickerton, like Stanford, was at a point in 308 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,479 Speaker 1: her life where she was drifting a bit, sort of 309 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: following her fate where it led, which made it much 310 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: easier to get sucked into the orbit of someone with 311 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: an agenda. Oddly enough, you were perfectly suited to take 312 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: Chester up on the offer to go live on his island. 313 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 6: Yes, a place like Darby and some of the out islands. 314 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 6: It's a test of courage, it's a test of adventure, 315 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 6: a test of intellect. It's a test of how you 316 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 6: connect with nature. 317 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 7: That's me. 318 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: When did you do that? And how long did you 319 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: live there in relative solitude? 320 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 6: Right? 321 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, absolutely. 322 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 6: I brought my dog with me, my dope, i' mean 323 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 6: pincher Cavena. So it was Cavena and there was another 324 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 6: little dog there, a Mutt Island dog. 325 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 7: And that was it. There was nobody there. 326 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 6: To serve me or watch over me or any of that. 327 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 6: But I knew I was capable of being able to 328 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 6: exist that way, and it was again another adventure for me. 329 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: Remember Leslie had taken her dog to Darby. It will 330 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: play a major role in her testifying for the prosecution. 331 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: In addition to accepting the challenge of living on the 332 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: island and the job with him, Leslie Bickerton would also 333 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: become romantically involved with Chester. All three of those things 334 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: would come back to haunt her. 335 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 6: I had not a clue of what I was walking into, 336 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 6: but the draw was the Bahamas and the islands. 337 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: Leslie was not naive and had a pretty immediate inkling 338 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: that marijuana was Chester's likely livelihood. 339 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 6: I didn't know he was involved with cocaine. If I 340 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 6: had known that he was involved with cocaine smuggling and 341 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 6: how extensive his operations were, and his involvement with the 342 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 6: Colombian cartel and Central America and the FEDS, I wouldn't 343 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 6: have touched him. I wouldn't have come near her with 344 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 6: a ten foot pole, no way. He deliberately withheld all 345 00:20:59,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 6: of that. 346 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: But Leslie, in particular so marijuana smuggling as almost part 347 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: of the adventurous spirit associated with the sailing set in 348 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: the islands. 349 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 6: The Bahamas has an interesting history. They were known for 350 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 6: piracy in the Bahamas. These islands, I mean they're really small, 351 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 6: They're not big like Jamaica or the Hawaiian Islands. So 352 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 6: once upon a time, this is where the pirates would 353 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 6: sort of hang out and go back and forth between 354 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 6: the States and the Bahamas and Jamaica and Europe. 355 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: Because they knew the lay of the land and anybody 356 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: who was pursuing them would probably end up wrecked because 357 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: they didn't understand the proper entry points and exit points exactly. 358 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 6: And that legacy carried on, and I think it just 359 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 6: really exploded again when you think about like the Vietnam War, 360 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 6: the sixties, anti war, anti government, highly educated people dropping out, 361 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 6: you know, the hippie movement, and there comes the marijuana 362 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 6: in the seventies. And if you grew up sailing, I 363 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 6: mean I grew up on the ocean and the other 364 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 6: people that I know, there was always a sense of adventure. 365 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 6: When you're sailing, you know what the weather's going to 366 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 6: present to you. And so during that time period you 367 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 6: had the marijuana. Okay, you had the hippie movement, this 368 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 6: is before cocaine. Then you have this enclave of sailors 369 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 6: people that are highly educated, anti establishment, and there comes 370 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 6: the Bahamas and it's kind of a perfect storm. 371 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 5: Every island in the Bahamas has its own unique personality, 372 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 5: some untouched by civilization until recently, miles of unspoiled natural 373 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 5: beauty here for you to explore, are thousands of islands 374 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 5: and keys. 375 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: It sounds like the perfect storm of this rogue frontier, 376 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: which is easy to romanticize with the anti establishment game 377 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: event where suddenly there's this gold rush, but it's marijuana, 378 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: because at that time there were a lot of people 379 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: who believed that it was just a limited window because 380 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: marijuana was going to be legalized sooner rather than later, 381 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: and if you were going to make money, that was 382 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: the time to do it. 383 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 6: And that's actually what drew a lot of the guys 384 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 6: to Lamar, you know, the sailors, at least with the 385 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 6: marijuana smuggling, that it was an event. 386 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 7: Sure, it was like sure, why not? 387 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 6: And I think they were clueless as to how they 388 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 6: were being used and how it fit into a master 389 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 6: plan that Lamar already had that none of us knew about. 390 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: But while she was staying on Little Derby, Leslie became 391 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: aware that Chester's smuggling was much more prolific and diversified 392 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: than she initially thought. 393 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 6: That was the first time Lamar flying the and into 394 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 6: NASA to customs, well outside customs, and they all knew 395 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 6: one another. The local guys knew Lamar quite well. That 396 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 6: was my first indication that I'm not going through what 397 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 6: I would call the normal procedures. In the Caymans, you 398 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 6: went through customs, trick customs, that was a non issue. 399 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 6: But the Bahamas, we just cleared through everything. I didn't 400 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 6: have to go in line and show my past. I 401 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 6: didn't have to show anything. That was my first indication that, well, 402 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 6: this person that I'm with, Lamar Chester, there's a lot 403 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 6: more to him than I realized from my first meetings 404 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 6: with him. 405 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: So you didn't even just get to skip the line. 406 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: You never had to go through the line. 407 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 7: I never had to go through it. 408 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: And Chester wasn't just securing that preferential treatment with cash. 409 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 7: He brought chickens. 410 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 6: Lamar had chickens with him in crates and it was 411 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 6: a matter of fact one another. We just swept right 412 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 6: through and he gave the guys the live chickens that 413 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 6: he brought in and cash. 414 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 7: No big deal, right, which led me to look at. 415 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 6: Then, Oh, this is a system that has already been 416 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 6: in place for a while. And I knew then that, oh, 417 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 6: this is somebody that's a lot bigger than I realized 418 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 6: as far as power is concerned and presence in the 419 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 6: Bahamas at that time. So that was my first clue, big. 420 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: Clue, But more clues would come out her full force. 421 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,239 Speaker 1: In the late summer of nineteen eighty one, Leslie had 422 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: departed the Darby Islands, but would be told her Doberman 423 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: Covina would have to fly out on a later flight. 424 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 6: There wasn't enough room, that's what was told to me. 425 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 6: A small plane, and that, okay, small planes. I've been 426 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 6: in a lot of small planes, so you know, okay, fine. 427 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: And you figured you'd either go back and get the 428 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: dog or they would bring the dog to you. 429 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 7: Yep, exactly. 430 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 6: So it's that sort of plans, Leslie. 431 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: One that would become a bargaining chip for Chester when 432 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: his adult son refused to return the dog. 433 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 6: Not a clue, no hint that something was wrong, that 434 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 6: this may have been planned in such a way, or 435 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 6: after the fact, that this is the leverage that they 436 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 6: had over me. 437 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: It remains an emotional subject for Bickerton to this day. 438 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: It was your kryptonite. 439 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, and they knew that. 440 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, because I upset because I knew that I 441 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 6: wasn't going to get that dog back. 442 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 7: He was holding it over me that the dog may 443 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 7: or may not come. 444 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 6: That's so awful because he just said, I know how 445 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 6: much that dog means to you. 446 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: Because she had significant knowledge into his now scrutinized finances, 447 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: Bickerton believes Chester lured her to his Georgia farm with 448 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: the promise the dog would be flown there, and also 449 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: in the meantime she could help set up River Hills 450 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: the college campsite. So all that narrative about out the 451 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: camping site and turning it into a college thing. Looking back, 452 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: do you think that was just some kind of excuse 453 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: to keep you there? 454 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 7: Yes, definitely. Because I was not on board with it. 455 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 6: I had to go along with it, but I was uncomfortable. 456 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: When Bickerton became impatient about the time it was taking 457 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: to get her Doberman back, she was given another job 458 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: and power of attorney for Chester and his wife to 459 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: fly to the Grand Caymans. 460 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 6: Both artists and Lamar signed a document and I've got 461 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 6: the original document. 462 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 7: It gave me the authority. 463 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 6: To access their account down in the Cayman Islands and 464 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 6: the bearer certificates to bring back to them. 465 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: Which was tied with a real estate shell company, the 466 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: Knee in Georgia. 467 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 6: Yes, yes, and I think a little bit more than that, 468 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 6: knowing what the Cayman Islands was involved with. And we're 469 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 6: not talking a little bank account. I mean we're talking 470 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 6: the Cayman Islands and Smythe And that's what Euston was after, 471 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 6: was Smythe. 472 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: Smyth was the name on the Cayman Islands account and 473 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: a bearer certificate. It's sort of like currency. If you 474 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: hold it, it's yours, kind of like finding a coin 475 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk. It doesn't have to be validated to 476 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: prove ownership. So by even acting as a courier, particularly 477 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: an international one, Leslie Bickerton had become very much complicit 478 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: in Chester's operations. Did you have any clue at that 479 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: point when you went to get the barriers certificates and 480 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: you returned that Lamar was actually under federal investigation. 481 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 6: Not a clue, nothing, not even a hint. I had 482 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 6: no idea that he was under investigation and I had 483 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 6: no idea how big an operation he had, much less 484 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 6: no idea that he was involved with the Colombian cartel 485 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 6: with cocaine and then with Nick or Auguro and guns, 486 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 6: all of it. I had not a clue. And so 487 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 6: when he had a conversation with me, it was right 488 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 6: around that time, during the summertime. 489 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 7: I'm nineteen eighty one. I didn't see it coming. 490 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: I just didn't that conversation would include the mention of 491 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: a man named Clayton. To the best of your memory, 492 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: can you take me to that conversation where you were, 493 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: who was there, what he said, and how it impacted you. 494 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 6: I remember it was either sitting in the truck of 495 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 6: his car, but it was on the farm and was 496 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 6: on the farm road. The conversation he had with me 497 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 6: was that he was in trouble and that it involved 498 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 6: some big people. I remember it being very short and 499 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 6: very block and I didn't know these people either, And 500 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 6: I think that's another reason why it took me by surprise, 501 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 6: because I had never heard of these people. He had 502 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,239 Speaker 6: never talked about these people at all. So within this 503 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 6: condensed conversation, he began telling me about a woman named Sibley, 504 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 6: something to do with her selling boats to him, and 505 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 6: that she was murdered and stucked in a chunk of 506 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 6: her Mercedes. Just that alone, you're just like what if 507 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 6: I entered into Like what the heck is what's going 508 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 6: on here? 509 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 7: It's just was surreal. 510 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 6: I mean, can you imagine, just like he's just taking 511 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 6: a walk down a road with somebody and you think 512 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 6: that they're okay, you know, all right, and then hit 513 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 6: you with something like that. 514 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 7: I mean, it came out of nowhere. I just must 515 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 7: have just like maybe five minutes. 516 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: As difficult as it is, I want to go back 517 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: to the Sibley Riggs and just try to recall as 518 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: much of the specifics as he said about Sibley. But 519 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: also of great interest to me is the snitch who 520 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: he had murdered? Correct? Why how did he word that? 521 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 7: So? 522 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 6: I mean, obviously you know it was a long time ago. 523 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 6: I mean, the first thing was about Sibley Riggs and 524 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 6: that she was a threat and was found beaten and. 525 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 7: Stuffed in the trunk of her Mercedes. 526 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 6: And I thought, my god, I mean I had not 527 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 6: a clue and I didn't even know who this person 528 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 6: was except she was a woman. And then right after 529 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 6: that was about this person, this man who was going 530 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 6: to turn on him and had to get. 531 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 5: Rid of him. 532 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: So when you were in the pre trial hearing, you 533 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: referred to that man you believed his name was Clayton, 534 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: Ed Clayton, correct, Yes, And that would be the same 535 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: man that Lamar implied had turned on him or was 536 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 1: going to snitch on him and had to be gotten 537 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: rid of. 538 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 7: Yes. 539 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 6: And I don't know who Ed Clayton is, you know, 540 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 6: I had no interaction. 541 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 7: I don't know what he did for Lamar, whether Lamar 542 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 7: did it directly or indirectly. 543 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 6: I mean, Lamar is connected with the Colombian cartel. Anyone 544 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 6: who would be a threat to the Colombian cartel would be. 545 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 7: Gotten rid of. And that's how you got rid of people. 546 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 6: You dumped them in the everglades, you know, with the alligators, 547 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 6: or with the crocodiles along the mangroves, and or you 548 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 6: shoved them off a plane, you know, in the deep 549 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 6: of the ocean. You never see them again. Real easy 550 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 6: way to get rid of evidence. I mean my head 551 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 6: was spinning, just spinning. I mean I didn't know what 552 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 6: to do. I didn't know where to turn, just trying 553 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 6: to process this information at the same time trying to 554 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 6: figure out immediately without saying a word, right how I 555 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 6: was going to get off that farm number one without 556 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 6: disappearing there because he had his own bodyguard there who 557 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 6: you wouldn't want to mess with. Believe me, this is 558 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 6: like good old boy right out of Appalachia. There's some 559 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 6: people that you can meet along the way in your 560 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 6: life that you just know. It's just like the hair 561 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 6: stands up in the back of your head and you 562 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 6: just know that this is a very dangerous person. 563 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 7: And that's the kind of person that Lamar had on 564 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 7: the farm. At all times. 565 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 6: I was scared for my life and I had to 566 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 6: figure out how I was going to get out from 567 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 6: underneath it. 568 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: I filled Lesliean on the timeline of Clayton Williams and 569 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: my theory that the person she recollected as Ed Clayton 570 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: could be the same man. Clay Williams would have gone 571 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: missing in September of nineteen eighty one and his body 572 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: was found in October. 573 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 6: So it was all happening this en period of time, 574 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 6: this perfect storm in a horrific way. That summer and 575 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 6: fall of nineteen eighty one, when everything started to fall apart. 576 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: What do you think was his purpose in telling you 577 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: about Sibley and Clay? Was it to control you, to 578 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: intimidate you. 579 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 6: I'd say more intimidation. It wasn't like he said to me, 580 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 6: while I'm concerned about your welfare. It was more of 581 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 6: an intimidation because of the way that it was said. 582 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 6: It was implied to me that I was in danger. 583 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 6: Not only I was in danger, but that I was 584 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 6: a threat to other people. 585 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: Wow. And until that point, Leslie Bickerton is adamant that 586 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: she had no idea Chester was under indictment or that 587 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: by serving as his courier with power of attorney, she 588 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: just implicated her and a federal investigation. 589 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 7: Just boom boom boom. 590 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 6: And then about somebody that had been killed off, found 591 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 6: him in the Everglades, dumped off in the Everglades with 592 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 6: the alligators, and then about Pablo Escobar and about the 593 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 6: CIA and the Feds. I mean, it was just like 594 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 6: wham bang bang bam, and there were contracts out on 595 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 6: his life and contracts that I was also in danger, 596 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 6: and then just sort of left me there. 597 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: And at that moment Leslie Bickerton's life forever. 598 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 6: Changed and That's where I talk about like walking into 599 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 6: the Devil's den, my god. 600 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: On the next murder in Miami, a substantial break in 601 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: the Clay Williams murder case could confirm Leslie's worst fears. 602 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 6: I had no idea what I was walking into that courtroom, or. 603 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: It could all just be part of a bigger plane. 604 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 4: Termed to me, looked right at me and said, let's 605 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 4: go feed somebody to the gators. 606 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: And another prolific smuggler shares his story of being set up. 607 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 4: It was a show trial. He mean to end half 608 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 4: the things that happened, or was said that the trial 609 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 4: just were made up out of thin air. 610 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: Murder Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers are 611 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: Lauren Bright Pacheco, Taylor Chacoine, and Phil Stamford. Written by 612 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: Phil Stamford and Lauren Bright Pacheco, Audio editing and sound 613 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: design by Nicholas Harder, Evan Tyer, and Taylor Chacoine, featuring 614 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: music by Evan Tyre, Phil Mayer, John Murchison, and Taylor Chacoine. 615 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: Archival elements provided by Film Archives Incorporated. For more podcasts 616 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever 617 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: you get the stories that matter to you.