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Speaker 1: John Cooper is the frontman and founder of the band Skillet.

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Speaker 1: How has this Christian rock band crossed into the mainstream

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Speaker 1: and stayed there for so long? The secret of their

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Speaker 1: success and his countercultural message is all on a Royal Grande.

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Speaker 1: Come on, welcome to a Royal Grande. Go subscribe to

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Speaker 1: the show right now. It really helps us and turn

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Speaker 1: those notifications on so you know what's coming. We've got

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Speaker 1: great content. You want to subscribe. Here's a question the

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Speaker 1: music industry has never been able to answer. How does

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Speaker 1: a Christian rock band, one that refuses to hide its

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Speaker 1: faith or soften its message become one of the best

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Speaker 1: selling rock acts of the twenty first century. Multiple platinum albums,

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Speaker 1: Grammy nominations, their songs certified six times platinum. The band

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Speaker 1: Skillet place to sold out arenas around the world. John

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Speaker 1: Cooper is the front man and founder of Skillet. He

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Speaker 1: tells me how family sustains the band and how their

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Speaker 1: faith animates every aspect of their success. Here's John Cooper.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about you and Skillet twenty three platinum album.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's incredible, what a career you've had. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all these years I want to read you something you

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Speaker 1: said in November twenty twenty four. You said America is

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Speaker 1: on the precipice of something very, very bad, very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I don't think politics can save it. What can save it?

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Speaker 1: John Cooper?

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Speaker 2: Oh oh man, we're jumping straight in, aren't we. Well.

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Speaker 2: I'm a spiritual person. I'm a Christian. I believe that

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Speaker 2: what we're seeing here is bigger than politics. I do

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Speaker 2: believe it's a spiritual thing. There is a light and

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Speaker 2: a darkness thing happening. And that's why I say the

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Speaker 2: politics thing, there's so much. I love politics, but it

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Speaker 2: is so corrupt and you you know, there's more than me.

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Speaker 2: But I know, John, I dipped my toes in and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, this really is corrupt

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Speaker 2: and power and there's so much happening. At the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, I think we need something bigger than that,

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Speaker 2: a bigger a heart, a heart change. As we're seeing

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Speaker 2: right now, people just don't treat each other well well.

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Speaker 1: And you, you were, it seems to me onto this

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Speaker 1: way before everybody else. You were talking about teen isolation,

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Speaker 1: teen suicide. I mean you you've been ringing these alarms

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Speaker 1: for a long time.

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Speaker 2: John, Yeah, I think that's that's probably fair. That's probably

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Speaker 2: one of the only things I've ever been on the

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Speaker 2: front end of. But I saw that happening at the

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Speaker 2: beginning early two thousands, when we were starting, there was

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Speaker 2: so much nihilism and so much anger and then and

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Speaker 2: I noticed when the social media stuff first hit. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't have put words to it, but I noticed something

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Speaker 2: is going on with the way that people have a

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Speaker 2: different life online than they do in person a person. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I could see that mental health thing happening, And

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Speaker 2: I kept meeting people at the shows, and I kept thinking,

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Speaker 2: all right, it wasn't that long ago that I was

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Speaker 2: a teenager and we were not like this. Something has

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Speaker 2: happened with this disconnect with social media and the fact

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Speaker 2: that we're all connected, and we're connected in a way

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Speaker 2: we never were before, but we're more alone, and there's

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Speaker 2: something really bad going on. I'm again writing songs about that.

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Speaker 2: Early two thousand and three, four five, six.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like I said, you were on the

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Speaker 1: phone and you weren't only writing songs about it, you

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Speaker 1: were talking about it. You really do have a heart

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Speaker 1: for these teens, yeah, who are the majority of your audience.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely still how do you do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, every every act in the country,

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Speaker 1: every rock band and rocker in the country would love

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Speaker 1: to know what the secret is.

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Speaker 2: What is it? I don't exactly know. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: lie to you. I'm exactly not sure what it is.

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Speaker 2: I do think Skillet has kept a young face. We've

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Speaker 2: always been on and social media engagement. We've always been

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Speaker 2: young and fun. Don't take ourselves too seriously. We do

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Speaker 2: the rock serious, but we always show our fun side,

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Speaker 2: and I think young people relate to that. My wife

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Speaker 2: is in the band as well, so there's a family

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Speaker 2: aspect to it that people they gravitated towards that because

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Speaker 2: they saw, you know, we've been married for nearly thirty years,

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Speaker 2: and in the music world they tell you if you're married,

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Speaker 2: to not promote.

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Speaker 1: That, don't talk about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cause you've got to seem available.

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Speaker 1: Whatever the word is.

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Speaker 2: We always talked about it because we wanted to just

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Speaker 2: show this is the most important thing that there is

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Speaker 2: here on this earth, your relationship with God, your relationship

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Speaker 2: with your wife and your kids, and we put that forward.

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Speaker 2: I think people related to it.

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Speaker 1: What do you think Ale's America right now? As you

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Speaker 1: travel the country, and I always say, you know, I

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Speaker 1: used to do book tours when I had books, and

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Speaker 1: I craved that because the audience tells you a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what are they telling you? Now?

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Speaker 2: Oh man? The thing that I see everywhere is just

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Speaker 2: the the totally separate world views of people, and each

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Speaker 2: one thinks everybody thinks like me, you know, but they

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Speaker 2: don't know, yeah they have they're all just like me,

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Speaker 2: and they really have no idea that the other half

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Speaker 2: of the country thinks something different. And I experienced some

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Speaker 2: of that in rock music because I was talking. I remember,

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Speaker 2: I was talking about freedom of speech, even in the

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Speaker 2: rock world. I started getting some pushback, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: I don't understand, like, there's nothing more Americana than rock

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Speaker 2: and roll.

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Speaker 1: Free thinking, open minds.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was thinking back to you know, the sixties. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, but it was it was very strange to see.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I started noticing, oh my gosh, there's

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Speaker 2: a very different worldview happening, and everybody thinks all the

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Speaker 2: normal people are just like me. So I've noticed that

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Speaker 2: free speech, be willing to talk to somebody doesn't agree

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Speaker 2: with you without freaking out or like because you don't.

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Speaker 2: You don't worship my God, so I'm going to freak

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Speaker 2: out on you, or I don't approve of your lifestyle

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Speaker 2: or your whatever choice is, and now you're going to

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Speaker 2: freak out. It's like, can everybody calm down a little bit?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: Well, the neat thing about your music and the beautiful

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Speaker 1: thing about music in generalists, it does bring people together.

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Speaker 1: It unifies them, even in their disagreement. And I would argue, look,

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Speaker 1: as a kid from New Orleans, I watched it, I've

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Speaker 1: seen it live, I've seen it my whole life. Music,

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Speaker 1: like comedy, it brings the guards down. You're totally open

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Speaker 1: when you're lost in a song, right, particularly with other people.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely you must feel that from the stage.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you're absolutely right. Comedy and music have that

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Speaker 2: same sort of power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It makes people like, okay, I'll listen a little bit, which,

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Speaker 2: going on a deeper level, is actually pretty cool for

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Speaker 2: people who are believing in the Bible and religious texts

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Speaker 2: and the psalms and the way that the Ywish people

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Speaker 2: would sing these things. You're singing your history, and as

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Speaker 2: you're singing your history, or you're a scent to Jerusalem

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Speaker 2: and things like that you are. It's something happens, and

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Speaker 2: music is spiritual. Everybody believes everywhere around the world, Atheist,

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Speaker 2: whatever religion, everybody knows there's something mysterious about music. That

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Speaker 2: is power.

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Speaker 1: Singing a new song to.

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Speaker 2: The Lord, sing a new song, and God sings over

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Speaker 2: his people, which is an incredible mystery that I don't understand.

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Speaker 2: But he sings over us, sings a song of joy

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Speaker 2: over us.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? To me?

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Speaker 2: To me, I think of like a parent singing to

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Speaker 2: their little child when they want them to go to sleep.

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Speaker 2: And God is his goddess. He doesn't want us suffering,

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Speaker 2: doesn't want us fighting, doesn't want us killing each other,

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Speaker 2: and he wants us to rest in the fact that

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Speaker 2: He is God and he loves us.

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Speaker 1: This strain of Christianity runs and really Christian truth runs

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Speaker 1: clear through your career from the beginning, which I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about. But the new album, there's a song

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Speaker 1: all that matters, and you're right, there are three things

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Speaker 1: I die for, my faith, my family, and my freedom.

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Speaker 1: There is a revolution. I mean an album's called revolution,

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Speaker 1: but there's a revolutionary kind of spirit in these tracks.

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Speaker 1: Where's that coming from?

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Speaker 2: I think it's coming from the very first question you

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Speaker 2: asked me, Like, what can save this? I mean, because

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Speaker 2: we spend so much time, especially with young people. I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing some of the faces just like you can just see.

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Speaker 2: It's not like it was only ten years ago, fifteen

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Speaker 2: years ago. I don't know if it's the cell phones,

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Speaker 2: you know, look at your cell phone. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what it is. But they have been told and I

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Speaker 2: don't mean going to two munch of a tangent here,

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Speaker 2: but they have been told that they are just a mistake,

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Speaker 2: not a mistake of Darwin's evolution. There just happens as

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Speaker 2: they are random. There is no truth, There is no

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Speaker 2: nothing that is absolutely for sure right and wrong. There

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Speaker 2: is no God, there is no You get my point

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Speaker 2: that it's depressing. It is nihilism at its at its worse.

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Speaker 2: And I and you can see it in their faces.

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Speaker 2: And I think, I think if I think, if people

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Speaker 2: knew how important they were to God, I think it

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Speaker 2: would change in an instant. The fact that God even

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Speaker 2: cares about us, or knows our name, or is listening

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Speaker 2: to our prayers is such an incredible miracle. And I

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Speaker 2: think that that would that would change our self worth,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, maybe that's a that's a whole

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Speaker 2: longer story, but that's what I see when I see

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Speaker 2: people singing these songs. And we have to have a

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Speaker 2: revolution for young people where they know that they matter.

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Speaker 1: And is that why you're writing these songs?

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Speaker 2: Not all?

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Speaker 1: Yes to impart that bit of wisdom truth.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, because that changes everything. If the world is just

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Speaker 2: chance and nothing really matters and we're just here, then

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Speaker 2: that means you've got to decide why you want to live.

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Speaker 2: I got to decide why. But if there is a reason,

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Speaker 2: and if there is an order and a God, then

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Speaker 2: that means that everybody matters.

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Speaker 2: About I hear someone says it.

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Speaker 1: I love the alliteration. I'm a sucker for alliteration, So

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Speaker 1: I love that. Uh you talk about you say the

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Speaker 1: Church Universal is in a deconstruction moment. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Deconstruction moment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems to me that there are things that

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Speaker 2: have worked for a couple thousand years, and those are

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Speaker 2: good things, you know what I mean. Family, Right now,

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Speaker 2: all those things are being attacked from the world. Of course,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying the church is attacking the nuclear family,

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Speaker 2: but the world is. And so I think there are

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Speaker 2: large sections of the church in America, probably out of

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Speaker 2: a good heart, want to reach these people. And I

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Speaker 2: think they feeling like, if we just soften the message,

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Speaker 2: we'll have a better chance of reaching them. And what

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Speaker 2: they don't understand is when they soften it, they take

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Speaker 2: away what's really really good about it, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: It's like, just like the American Project, which is amazing,

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Speaker 2: how are we going to soften free speech? If you

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Speaker 2: begin to soften it and say you're right, we shouldn't

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Speaker 2: say X, Y or z, then all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: it's no longer free. And then who's going to decide

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Speaker 2: which speech is okay? Which is it?

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Speaker 1: You know, you have a podcast. I mean, I read

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Speaker 1: your book, but you have a podcast that is you

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Speaker 1: pull no punctures on this podcast. It's hopeful, it's certainly

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Speaker 1: filled with as what I would consider a Christian ethos,

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Speaker 1: but it's also it's full frontal in the way it

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Speaker 1: looks at the problems of the day and confronts them.

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Speaker 1: And yet some have said, I'll read you the quotes.

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Speaker 1: He's intolerant, extreme. What would you say, alarmist?

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Speaker 2: Alarmist?

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Speaker 1: What would you say to all that?

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Speaker 2: You know, I understand why. I think. The first thing

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Speaker 2: i'd say is I understand why people think that. I

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Speaker 2: think ten years ago, I would have thought I was

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Speaker 2: alarmist too. I'm just being honest, Like when twenty twenty hit,

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Speaker 2: I was just sort of like, I just can't believe

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Speaker 2: that people are putting up with this. This is just

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Speaker 2: so It's almost like I had never thought about it.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is just un American, this is

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Speaker 2: not how we grew up. And so it was almost

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Speaker 2: like I assumed everybody agreed. So I would say, ay,

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Speaker 2: I understand b I would have thought I was alarmist too.

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Speaker 2: But see, I think that most of it has been

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Speaker 2: proven accurate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, a cultures caught up with you.

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Speaker 2: I mean most of it, yeah, if not all of

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Speaker 2: it now I think about it. But yeah, anyway, what does.

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Speaker 1: Your family think? I mean, I know your wife, and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about your wife in a moment.

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Speaker 1: But what's their reaction to Dad's going up? He's taking

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Speaker 1: all this heat right right.

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Speaker 2: My kids love it. My kids are so proud of me.

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Speaker 2: They're just like, we're going to lose America if people

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Speaker 2: don't do this, you know, we're gonna we're gonna lose

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Speaker 2: Christian civilization as we've known it West, I should say

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Speaker 2: Western civilization, which I think of as being Christian civilization.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's under it's what the foundations, Yes, Christian history

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Speaker 1: and belief.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and Europe has already lost most of theirs.

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Speaker 2: So my kids are are honestly, very very proud of it.

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Speaker 2: You know, doesn't mean they would always say it the

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Speaker 2: way that I would say it. Luckily, my kids are

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Speaker 2: are much more winsome than I am. Of course they're

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Speaker 2: from a different generation too. Some of it might be because

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Speaker 2: we grew up, you know, in the eighties and we

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Speaker 2: got we were Randy Savage and Semester Saloon. Maybe some

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Speaker 2: of it is cultural, but my kids are very very

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Speaker 2: proud of that, and they're very very patriot.

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Speaker 1: But don't you think kids are more explicit today than

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Speaker 1: ever before? I mean, they're used to more explicit things,

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Speaker 1: so it's a weird talking straight to a crowd. It's

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Speaker 1: really not.

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Speaker 2: It's a weird mix, isn't. It's it's more explicit material, yes,

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Speaker 2: but with more of a don't offend me front, you know,

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Speaker 2: very politically correct. While seeing the most explicive material like that.

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Speaker 2: We never would have seen growing up, you know, we

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Speaker 2: would have been frightened of most of us, like you,

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Speaker 2: that's crazy. So it's a weird. I think it's a weird,

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Speaker 2: terrible social experiment that is not going well.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I want to take you back to your

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Speaker 1: family gives through, which always fascinates me, and then I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about your current family. Your mother was

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Speaker 1: a pianist, a singer. Dad didn't allow you to listen

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Speaker 1: to rock and roll at home at all?

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Speaker 2: Right Mom or dad?

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Speaker 1: Both?

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Speaker 2: Mostly? Mom? Actually really yeah, why not? My dad just

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Speaker 2: thought it was stupid, sort of like when you use

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Speaker 2: this dumb rock and roll. My mom thought it was satanic.

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Speaker 2: So there's there's two different things. You know. I grew

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Speaker 2: up in a very strict home. The drums, the drum

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Speaker 2: beat was satanic. The way people looked was satanic. They

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Speaker 2: were just very I don't even know, I mean, do

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Speaker 2: you remember Bill Authored. They were very into like bilg

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Speaker 2: Author all stuff, so very very traditional, and so I

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Speaker 2: had a hard time wrapping my head around. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: trying to be rebellious. I was just trying to understand.

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Speaker 2: But Mom, you kept telling me that God created music

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Speaker 2: and music gives him play, and I can't understand why

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Speaker 2: you're saying only some music and not this. So I

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Speaker 2: wasn't even trying to be rebellious. I was. I was

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Speaker 2: being genuine, like naive. Yeah, yeah, but one of these

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Speaker 2: things is not consistent.

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Speaker 1: What did they think as you went down this road?

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you didn't stop listening to rock, right, right?

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Speaker 1: Were you listening to all? Right?

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Speaker 2: So I wasn't listening to anything until about sixth grade,

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Speaker 2: in which my friend was complaining about not being able

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Speaker 2: to listen to Metallica and my best friend said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know there's Christian rock music and I said no,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know this. He gave me a tape of

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Speaker 2: a Christian rock band. I brought it home thinking I

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Speaker 2: was going to introduce my mom into something that would

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Speaker 2: be okay, and I found out that Christian rock music

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Speaker 2: was even more satanic than Metallica. Because it was wolves

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Speaker 2: and sheets clothing and so long story short, which is

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Speaker 2: a sad way. And so my mom got sick with

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Speaker 2: cancer and I was in sixth grade, and so for yeah,

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Speaker 2: for three years she struggled with cancer. Or she died

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Speaker 2: when I was a freshman in high school. So at

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Speaker 2: that point I was kind of able to do what

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Speaker 2: I wanted to choose my own path. My dad didn't

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Speaker 2: want me playing music because he thought it was a

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Speaker 2: waste of time, and so I had to kind of

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Speaker 2: go around his back. But when I went to college,

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Speaker 2: I started doing music.

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Speaker 1: And it was a pastor who suggested, yeah, you start

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Speaker 1: the band, yes, and why skill it? Why name it

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Speaker 1: skill it?

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Speaker 2: It's really stupid. So I was already playing in a band,

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Speaker 2: and we had played at this church and this pastor

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Speaker 2: that really believed it that Christian music could win kids

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Speaker 2: into the church. He had a real vision for that,

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Speaker 2: and he liked me, and he liked this other guitar

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Speaker 2: player from a different band, and he said, hey, I

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Speaker 2: think you two should try something together, and if it's good,

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Speaker 2: call it skill it. It'd be like cooking, taking all

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Speaker 2: these ingredients and throwing it in the skillet. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, whatever, So it was his doing? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: wow is that funny? I was like, well'll last long? Not?

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Speaker 1: Why not? Thirty years later?

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Speaker 2: Here you are. That's right.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I love about this night. And

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Speaker 1: one day I'm gonna get you and Corey together. Your wife, Corey,

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Speaker 1: she goes on the road with you, she writes with you. Yes, look,

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Speaker 1: I've been married for thirty years. I know where this

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Speaker 1: is going.

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Speaker 2: You see in your face.

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Speaker 1: Tell me how what this has done to your relationship.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's got to be difficult on some

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Speaker 1: days and wonderful on others.

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Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. It's it's wonderful. We are blessed.

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Speaker 2: Most people to leave their families home, we did not,

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Speaker 2: And then we had two We had two kids as well,

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Speaker 2: and they came on the road with us since they

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Speaker 2: were born, because there was no other option because Corey,

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Speaker 2: my wife, Corey plays in the band, and we didn't

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Speaker 2: want to do it separately. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We

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Speaker 2: didn't want her to stay home and do skillet without her.

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Speaker 2: She's too important. And it was amazing, and it was difficult,

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Speaker 2: there's no lie because she was I remember we used

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Speaker 2: to we would play it. We're in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a concert and I would have a a minute like

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Speaker 2: drum solo, guitar solo, bass solo. She would leave and

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Speaker 2: go feed breast breastfeed the kids and then come back

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Speaker 2: on to stage. And we were trying to time it right.

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Speaker 2: It was really hard. I mean, all of it was

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Speaker 2: very difficult.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So Skillett had a breastfeeding intermission.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you're telling me, I don't tweet that.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be the meme Skillet's breastfeeding. Make sure

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Speaker 1: you get at that end the breastfeeding intermission.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think get a rolling stone with that.

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Speaker 1: Everybody should have one. Everybody should have that. It's very

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Speaker 1: pro family.

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Speaker 2: I like that.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the challenges that are presented to you all, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that close proximity. Working with a band mate is

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Speaker 1: hard enough working with a life mate.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, Yeah, it was difficult. And you're always together,

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Speaker 2: but you're never like quality. You're never alone. You don't

399
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Speaker 2: have quality times, you're just you have to learn to

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Speaker 2: work your problems out in front of band members if

401
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Speaker 2: they're there, or how are we going to do this?

402
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Speaker 2: We go in the back and argue, like, how are

403
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Speaker 2: we going to fix this thing. So eventually we just

404
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Speaker 2: kind of went to say, okay, why don't we I

405
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Speaker 2: used to say to her, I want to talk to you,

406
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Speaker 2: not like your husband. Can we put our business hats

407
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Speaker 2: on and then you put the business ad on and

408
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Speaker 2: then you can say whatever you want to say to me.

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Speaker 2: I can't say whatever I want to say to her,

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Speaker 2: but good husband, I'm a smart guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why you're married.

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Speaker 2: Not just a pretty phase. People. But then we'd have

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Speaker 2: those conversations and then we started going, okay, how about

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Speaker 2: we just split up into roles. You do this, you

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Speaker 2: do school, the kids. You do the kids. I do

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Speaker 2: all the interviews. Corey hasn't done it, hardly done it

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Speaker 2: three interviews in a decade or so. Because I just

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Speaker 2: took became the face of this. Because I do that well.

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Speaker 2: I could never teach my kids school ever. She does

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Speaker 2: that well. And my kids are wonderful and they're wonderful,

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Speaker 2: brilliant kids, all because of her. Because I did the

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Speaker 2: interviews and my wife did that the kids.

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Speaker 1: You see, you knew how to divide the labor. What's

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Speaker 1: the writing process? You will write together? We do what's

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Speaker 1: that like?

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Speaker 2: And I think we're even getting better at that now

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Speaker 2: because we're more familiar and I just know you're just

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Speaker 2: better at this than me. You do that that you do.

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Speaker 2: She is a great producer, so that means that she

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Speaker 2: she can make the sound, she can record the sound,

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Speaker 2: she can say no, that's not right. And she's the

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Speaker 2: one that keeps up with current music. So they are

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Speaker 2: little things that are changing, you know how music.

434
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: Producers beat some cross beats.

435
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't really enjoy that, you know. I

436
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 2: like lyrics and I like expressing myself when through lyrics,

437
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: and she, if she were here, she would say John's

438
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 2: faster and better at that than I am. And so

439
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: then she'll do music and Alca will come together, and

440
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: then we formulated together and we write the lyrics together.

441
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: But a lot of the times I will be the

442
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: force of the lyrics. She is the force of the music.

443
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 2: And then I've just learned to go, you know what,

444
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna leave and let you finish it because

445
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: she's just better. Then you have to deal with me,

446
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: be like, find the way it is, leave it alone,

447
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: cross beats. I just leave, and then she makes it murder.

448
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: You know, wow, I love it. Thirty years on the road. John, Yeah,

449
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: Skillett has been around for thirty years. The amazing thing

450
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: to me is you still have this young audience. What's

451
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: the secret to the longevity.

452
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: It is the strangest thing. I never imagined we'd be

453
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: a band for longer than five years, So I don't

454
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: even know how this happened. In some ways, it played

455
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: in our favor that we never had. So usually when

456
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 2: a band comes out, if they hit they had that

457
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: big song Monster, Yeah. But so Monster was thirteen years

458
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 2: into our career. So part of it is that we

459
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 2: had our huge, our biggest song halfway through the career, Wow,

460
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: and we had already built up a live word of

461
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: mouth audience. Another thing is I think we've always been authentic.

462
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: I've never been embarrassed of my faith, my religious faith,

463
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: my marriage. As I said, We've always just been like, no,

464
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: we're going to be real. But if that's our best

465
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 2: selling point, and even when people said, man, you really

466
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: shouldn't do that, we did it and the fans believed us.

467
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: What have you learned over thirty years on the rock?

468
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: Always be authentic? That's always the best.

469
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: Were you ever not authentic and paid the price or

470
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: said that was a misstep. Shouldn't have done that.

471
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm sure that would be the case. Yes, I have

472
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: done things that I say you know that probably wasn't

473
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: the best way to do it, but I will say

474
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: not in the braggy way. We have never made a

475
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: giant misstep that I can remember, because I saw other

476
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: people do it a little bit before me, and I

477
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: remember thinking, I know why they did that, and maybe

478
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: I would have and I'm not going to do it

479
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: that way.

480
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: The curious thing I read this about you on I'm

481
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: frankly stunned by it. Eighty percent of your income comes

482
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: from the secular rock audience. Yeah, how do you straddle

483
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: these two worlds? How do you remain true to your faith?

484
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: And yet that sound that Dad asked face continues to

485
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: draw people this the spectrum, people who are not Christians.

486
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think it's just because we were always

487
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: unapologetic about it. You know, it's hard. It's hard to

488
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: be mad at somebody like for instance, So I'm a conservative,

489
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: but I really like Bill Maher. I like watching Bill

490
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: Maher even when I don't agree with him. I'm like,

491
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: I can see why he'd say that, and now I

492
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: like that he's not apologetic, he's not. I like people

493
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: that are real, and I know as a music listener,

494
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: I listen to all sorts of rock bands that I

495
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: like it. I think it's authentic and sometimes it's even

496
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: maybe even against what I believe, but it's good. It's

497
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: good art. And I always had I always had the

498
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: conviction that other people would treat me that way if

499
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 2: I was real. I'm not. I'm not preaching to them.

500
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: I'm just being real. I'm singing my song.

501
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: So, but do you think it's the it's the hard

502
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: rock edge of the band that's been able to be

503
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: maintained over time. Isn't that part of what this is?

504
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: And is that what allows you to work with secular bands?

505
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you had worked with everybody.

506
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, probably so the fact that it's hard, it's rock.

507
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: Rock was always about, I mean I think of really

508
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 2: early rock Johnny Cash and the later Beatles and Zeppelin.

509
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: It was always about being anti cultural or whatever the

510
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: word is, counter culture, thank you, counter cultural. It was

511
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: about my time to say what I believe in. This

512
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: is not talking about my generation, you know who and all.

513
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: It was about, like, this is what we believe and

514
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: the edge of the music goes with that sort of attitude,

515
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: and you know, actually, Johnny Cash is a great exam.

516
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: Right, But to be able to preserve it over thirty years, Yeah,

517
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: that's a hard it really is. I can't think of

518
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: many bands who can do this.

519
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 2: I really don't take credit for it because I honestly

520
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: don't know how it happened. I'm like, nobody's more stunned

521
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: than me. I always tell people I'm the lucky I'm

522
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: the luckiest musician on the plant, And I'm like, I

523
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: don't really know how that happened.

524
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Is it liberating? Is it liberating to have that young

525
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: audience with you? I mean, you've got are pulled the number.

526
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: Not only are you getting eighty percent of your income

527
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: from a secular audience, You've got guys eighteen to twenty

528
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: five in your seats. These are people who weren't born

529
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: when you started this.

530
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I just went and somewhere else and did

531
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: an interview and they say, some people at the station

532
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: want to meet you, and these three guys came out

533
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 2: and he's like, dude, you got to make a video

534
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: from a four year old He sings monster all the time.

535
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like this is so cool and so strange.

536
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: So I don't know exactly know what happened, but we

537
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: are very, very blessed. I think, you know, one of

538
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: the other things I think that worked for us, that

539
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: I also can't really take credit for is the fact

540
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: that we did a few things early on that were

541
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: not in style. They worked against us, like what and

542
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: now they are popular. We had girls in the band,

543
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: so my wife joined the band in nineteen ninety eight.

544
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: There were hard no women in metal, I mean not

545
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: at all, and they and in fact, they used to say,

546
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: like Skill is not a real rock band because they've

547
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: got girls. You know, they're not a real rock band.

548
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 2: Because they used to say that we were too positive

549
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: and it's like it's just like too positive because rock

550
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: wasn't like that. And then around twenty ten this shift

551
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: begins to happen into positivity self help. All of a sudden,

552
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: the rock and roll world began saying, we need to

553
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: do something for mental health. Skillett had been doing that

554
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: for ten years, so we were on the cutting edge

555
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: of some of that stuff, and I think that people went,

556
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: you know what, that's pretty cool that they did that.

557
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: But it's amazing you've managed to keep yourself and the

558
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: band forever young in some way I don't know reflecting.

559
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean you aren't tapping into something. I mean rock music,

560
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: and I think your music in particular has always tapped

561
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: into that teen anks, that ye unsettled period. The question

562
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: is how do you maintain that in adulthood as an artist?

563
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the reason is is because what was

564
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: unique about Skillet, I think and what I've been told

565
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: by our fans is that we did tap into the

566
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: anx as you said, but there was always this undercurrent

567
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: of hope that was always the Yes, I feel this way,

568
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: but it's gonna be okay. There is a God who

569
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: is listening. You are not alone in the universe. I

570
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: will be here for you we need. We had an

571
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: album called Rise that came out in twenty thirteen. That

572
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: album the Rise in Revolution Everybody Won for all you know.

573
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: It was like, we're all in this together. We've got

574
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: and at that particular time, I was very vocal about

575
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: the school shootings and the violence, like we've got to

576
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: do something about this. There's something very bad going on.

577
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: So I think it was the angst but also the

578
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: but they were they made me feel good. It was

579
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: kind of like that.

580
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, what you were very critical of Christian music. You

581
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: said this a rot in Christian music. There's a few

582
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: years ago. Do you think there still is?

583
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. I think that. I was on Michael

584
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: Noles podcast once. We were playing the yes or no game,

585
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: and one of the games was like, you know, there

586
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: is there going to be less drinking a backstage at

587
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: a Christian concert than at a mainstream and he assumed

588
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: it would be no, and I said, yes, unfortunately, you know,

589
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: not from my band. But you know, you expect people

590
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: who wear the label Christian or whatever that word is,

591
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: especially if you're like Christian music, you're in the lane,

592
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: you expect them to act and behave a certain way.

593
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: I think that's a good expectation, not a bad expectation.

594
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: We don't expect everybody to be Christians, totally fine with me,

595
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: I don't.

596
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: But if you're wearing the band, you're wearing the bads.

597
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: You should kind of do the thing. And so that

598
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: really that really bothers me. I don't like that, And yes,

599
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: I'll end it there. I don't think that's good.

600
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean we've seen some pretty dramatic people

601
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: who are living double lives, and I mean, yes, you know,

602
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: and look, I understand humanity. And the question is is

603
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: this just a reflection of broken humanity or is there

604
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: something else happening where people see an opening in a

605
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: genre that hasn't been right opened and they see an

606
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: opening and say, you know what, I'm going to be that.

607
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that that's what I'm getting at. I'm

608
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: glad you say that, because what I do not mean

609
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: is that Well, you said you're a Christian. I heard

610
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: you exactly. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking

611
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: about people who are actively and engaging, unashamedly in things

612
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: that we go. Hey, that's just not really what the

613
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: church is about. You know, love you either way, but

614
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: maybe you should do that out there and not in here.

615
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: And I think it's especially relevant coming from Skillet because

616
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: we are an unashamed Christian band, but we don't do

617
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: that much in the Christian industry. We actually do most

618
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: of our work in the rocket industry.

619
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: But does that free you to speak your mind?

620
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: I think that it does because because what are they like,

621
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: what's it?

622
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: What are they gonna do? Yeah, what's the penalty?

623
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: What's the penalty? You know, I'm already not on tour

624
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: with that particular thing anyway. And they are my friends

625
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: and we all love each other. Yeah, but there is

626
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: a little bit of a hey guys, we need to

627
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: we need to clean this up here.

628
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: Was there ever a temptation to pull back from your faith? Yeah,

629
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: and not talk about it?

630
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: Yes. When I wrote a book called Awaken Alive to Truth,

631
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: people can get it on Amazon. You can't get in

632
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: a bookstore. Go to Amazon. John L. Cooper the very

633
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: beginning of the intro, I tell this story when two

634
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, when Monster came out. Monster became our

635
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: biggest song. We were on tour, on a massive tour.

636
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: We were the first of four bands that were all

637
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: the other bands all secular, all Secular, all multi platinum artists.

638
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: We were the openers and we were getting fairly big

639
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: at the time, which means these were really big acts. Yeah,

640
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: killing it, and we had done something. All these entertainment

641
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: industry people showed up and they say, we're going bowling afterwards,

642
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: and I was like, Okay, I guess I'll go bowling.

643
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: I was there. This really big wig we'll say his name,

644
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,239
Speaker 2: came in and he said, hey, Cooper and I was like,

645
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: I didn't know even kne who I was. And he said,

646
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you, and he had like

647
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: all these girls around it. The MAC is like a

648
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: maximum shoot or something. I was like, oh god. I

649
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: was like, I didn't know who even kne who I was.

650
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: And he pulled me aside and he said, I just

651
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: want to tell you I've been listening. He said, I'm

652
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: going to shoot you straight, because no one will shoot

653
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: you straight in this industry. He says, I think you

654
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: can be the next biggest rock band in the world.

655
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: You've got to drop the Jesus stuff. If you drop

656
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 2: the Jesus stuff, you'll be the next biggest act in

657
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: the world, you know. And I was stunned. And he

658
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: started and then he started saying, think about this, think

659
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: about the good and he was listing bands. You know.

660
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: One of the band one of the people who mentioned

661
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: was Bono. You know, think about Bono. Everybody likes Bono.

662
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 2: Bono talks about Jesus now. But there was a time

663
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: when he didn't do this so he could get big,

664
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: so he could do this later. And he was giving

665
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: me all this and I don't even know if any

666
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: that's true. That was just his take on it and

667
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: trying to get me to do this thing. And of

668
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: course everybody, everybody looks up to Bono in the whole world,

669
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: you know. But I remember thinking like, maybe he's right,

670
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: like maybe I should back off of I don't know,

671
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: but it was playing with me only for a couple

672
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: of hours, yeah, And I went to that back to

673
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: the bus. I was telling my wife about it, you know,

674
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: and you know, of course she's just like no. I'm like, no,

675
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: I don't think so that's that's not right, right. She's like, no,

676
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: it's not right, Like I don't think it was right.

677
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: If you bow to me all this, it's routina.

678
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: I'll give all that.

679
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: I've seen this once or twice before where it can't

680
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: play it.

681
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: But it's funny how how lies little lies can sound.

682
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: What is it in Lord of the Rings And at

683
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 2: the end of the first film, remember when when Barmere

684
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: is trying to get the ring and he's like, I

685
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: would use it for good, and then Proto says like,

686
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: I know what you would say, and it would sound

687
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: like wisdom except for the warning in my heart. It

688
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: sounds like wisdom, but it ain't right. So we didn't

689
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: go that path, and I'm so glad we would it,

690
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: even if we could have been bigger. Who cares? You

691
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: got to you gotta go to sleep at the end

692
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: of the day yourself.

693
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: What do you hear from fans? What do you hear

694
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: from the young people coming? Because one is just sheer.

695
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: It's the beat and the power and the expression and

696
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: they're getting it out and it's great. This also comes

697
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: with answers yes, yes, and I and and like that

698
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: warning in Froto's heart. Not everybody can hear those answers.

699
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: When some do, that's right, No, that's true, that's really

700
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 2: poign it. I mean I have been I get embarrassed

701
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 2: telling these stories because I don't think that much of myself,

702
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: And every time I hear one, I'm like, this does

703
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. But every show I meet people

704
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: who say I did not commit suicide because of your music.

705
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: I hear people that say, you know, we have a

706
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: song called not going to Die. I met somebody recently

707
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: who actually plays guitar in a professional man now, because

708
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: we've been doing this for a long time, he said,

709
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: he said, man, he said, I was going through whatever,

710
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: I was about to get married. I walked in on

711
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 2: my fiance with somebody else. I got in the car

712
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to kill myself. He said. I

713
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: was driving as fast as I could down a two

714
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 2: lane road, and your song not Going to Die came

715
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: on the radio, and he said, and I he said,

716
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: I was going to jerk the wheel as fast as

717
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: I could to kill myself. And he said, I tried

718
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: with all my strength to jerk the wheel and it

719
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: would not it would not move. And my car turned

720
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: off and just went over into the side of the

721
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: road and stopped, and your song not Going to Die

722
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: was plays and I just surrendered my life to God.

723
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: And he said. Ten years later, I'm married, I have

724
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: a kid, I'm in I'm playing music. And it was crazy.

725
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: I meet people like this all the time. I meet

726
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: people to say I lost one hundred and eighty pounds

727
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: to your music and it's helped me. I no longer

728
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: have diabetes, you know, because it's workout music. Some of

729
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: them are really heavy, and then some of them are

730
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: like that, and or as soon as we meet, like

731
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: make a wish kids so who they fly out. One

732
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: of them came and played a song with us on stage,

733
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: and he died two months later and his parents, you know,

734
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: buried him in his skillet shirt. And it's just it's humbling.

735
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: It's all I say is you know.

736
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: We had Kenny Wayne Sheppard, who we interviewed a few

737
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Oh yeah, and what you're saying reminds me

738
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: of what Kenny was saying at the time. And years

739
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: ago I interviewed Aaron Neville.

740
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

741
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: And at the end of the Neville Brothers concerts when

742
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: I was a kid in New Orleans, they would a cappella.

743
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 1: He would sing ave Maria.

744
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

745
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: So after everybody's rocking all these great songs, and it

746
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: was like you could feel the room filling up. People

747
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: were weeping, people were And I said, and I asked him,

748
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: I said, Aaron, what was that moment? Like what I mean,

749
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: what happens here? Because nobody when it's over, nobody applauded.

750
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: It was like you could move and then they applauded

751
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: and then they cheered. And he said, that's the God

752
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: in me, speaking to the God now. And I thought,

753
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: that's what your music here, that's so speaking to the

754
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: God in now.

755
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: It's crazy. There's this story, there's a story in the

756
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: Bible and everybody's religious is fine. But this is an

757
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: amazing story where King Saul is being tormented by demons

758
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: and he says, I need I need a skillful musician

759
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: to come and play for me. And they say, well,

760
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: there's actually this kid called David. He's a shepherd and

761
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: he's he's wonderful and he's a skillful player. And David

762
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: would come, and every time Saul would be tormented by

763
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: demon they call this kid David, who come and play

764
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: his harp, and the demons would flee. Music is powerful

765
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: and we don't understand it, and now science is catching

766
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: up to it, aren't they. They're like Alzheimer's people. Music helps.

767
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: I meet a ton of kids with either as bergers

768
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: or or on the spectrum, and their parents tell me

769
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: the only thing that calms my kid down is skillet.

770
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 2: I don't know why that is, but there's something spiritual music.

771
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: Tell me what you learned from Nicky six of Motley

772
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: Cruze about business all of that?

773
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: NICKI said, you meet him, Well, I only met him once.

774
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: It's not like we're friends. More's the pity. I wish

775
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,959
Speaker 2: we were. I mean, Motley Crue, Come on, Nicki six

776
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: is a genius he is the he's the brains. I mean,

777
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: every every band has got a brains guy. And that

778
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: guy is smart. And I noticed on his radio show

779
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, he's not just a rock star. This

780
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: guy knows what he's talking about. He just invited me

781
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: to come out on an interview on a show one time.

782
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: He was so he was very sweet, very intelligent, very inclusive.

783
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: He brought up that we were a Christian band. He's like, man,

784
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: when I hear your songs, it just reminds me of

785
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: like my recovery. That's what I and I said, yeah,

786
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: it's inclusive music. And he was cool, and I just

787
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: kind of I remembered that, thinking, you know, what everybody

788
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: needs to Every band needs to have somebody that's like that.

789
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: So I try to learn from people like that.

790
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: If I can't, So, who's the brains of Skillet?

791
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: Well, my wife is much much, much smarter than me.

792
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: I do think that I think that we're a good

793
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: team because I think that the things I'm not good at,

794
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: she's wicked good at. And I'm an extrovert and I

795
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: am somebody that that I think that I'm I'm pretty

796
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: good at at noticing. I can read rooms, well, and

797
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 2: I'm pretty good at sociology and culture. I understand. I

798
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: can look at at culture and be like, this is what,

799
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: this is, why this is happening. It's part of my

800
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 2: I think, my theological background. Perhaps I don't know, and

801
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 2: so I think because of that, we've been able to

802
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: kind of be a really good you know.

803
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: You won't meet.

804
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: We met because we basically had My wife's dad's a

805
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 2: pastor in Wisconsin and I was in Memphis. I'm from Memphis,

806
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: and our churches kind of like kind of like knew

807
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 2: we were like sister churches sort of. And I had

808
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: heard of this girl, Corey up in Wisconsin who also

809
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 2: played in a band. Oh, and they're like, you should

810
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: meet her, and you guys would really like each other.

811
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: But they didn't think we'd like each other romantically. They

812
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: just thought you guys might inspire each other to do music.

813
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're thinking. So when we met,

814
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: we kind of started liking you. As I told my pastor,

815
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: I said, I think I'm I think I might really

816
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: be into her, and he was like Corey and I

817
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 2: said yeah, and he goes, oh, I'm sorry, she would

818
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: never go for you. She's she's like really smart and

819
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: pensive and you're you.

820
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: Know, you're you you He was wrong, he was wrong.

821
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 2: One of those people know, Yeah.

822
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: That's right. Love triumphs again. You have a song unpopular, Yeah,

823
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: and the lyric goes, I think it's a good day

824
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: to be unpopular, Got my family, got my sanity, everything

825
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: I need. Is that really the model as you see

826
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: it now?

827
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think we twenty twenty, and maybe it even

828
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: happened earlier. I don't know. Twenty twenty was like the milestone,

829
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: and I remember I remember thinking like I never wanted

830
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: to talk about politics. I don't want to. That's how

831
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: I want to play rock and roll. Man. I want

832
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 2: to talk about my faith and my music, and I

833
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: don't want to do this. But we hit that milestone

834
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: where I truly believed, and I don't think I was wrong,

835
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you probably will agree. I truly believe

836
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: we're this close from losing the American project. I mean

837
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: from I like the West. We're that close, and I

838
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did it.

839
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: Speak out and put it all on the line and

840
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: say if it makes men popular, that's fine. If it

841
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: did collapse. I would not be able to live with that.

842
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: How do you How might I look at my grandkids

843
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: in the eye and be like, you know what, you know,

844
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: we could have done something about that, but we did it,

845
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: and we you know, as Christians, we look back on

846
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: people like Bonhoeffer, who stood up during Nazi Germany and

847
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: was killed for it. We look back on him and

848
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 2: we all say, I want to be David higgainst Goliath.

849
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: I want to be Bonhoeffer, I want to be MLK,

850
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: I want to be what. That's what we all did.

851
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: And I suddenly realized, like, are you just going to

852
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: talk about it? Are you going to do it? You know?

853
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: Do you feel you did it? During that time?

854
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: I feel like I did everything that I knew how

855
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: to do to the best of my ability. I don't

856
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 2: think I did it the best as I could or

857
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: better than other people. I just know that I did

858
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: everything that I possibly.

859
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: You were at Atlantic Records for twenty years now your

860
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: self you're creating and releasing your own album. Yeah, yourself

861
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: revolutions your own baby. Yeah, why that decision? Why not

862
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: stay with the producer and the distributor that brung you?

863
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? I just felt right I really don't know. Probably

864
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: a lot of different things went into it. You know,

865
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: the game has changed, technology has changed.

866
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: You don't need the distribution the way you did.

867
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: You don't need it like you did, and now people

868
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: are streaming music as well. As To be honest, I

869
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: kind of again, after twenty twenty, I got really into

870
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 2: the idea of us creating our own spaces. Like I

871
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: was really into what Dan Bongino was doing when he

872
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,959
Speaker 2: first was off starting. All of a sudden he came over, yea.

873
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: His own podcast, don't start up?

874
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, his own version of whatever. I all of a sudden,

875
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm Parlor and then they're doing Parlor and all those things.

876
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: Right, he created rumble.

877
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: Rumble is the word I was thinking, So I was

878
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: I was, I like that. I saw Daily Wire doing

879
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: what Daily Wire was doing, and I'm.

880
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: Creating their own platform.

881
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: You're creating your own things in case the worst happens

882
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: and people cancel you for a B or C. And

883
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: I just don't want it to be under anybody's son now,

884
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 2: to be fair, I was never under Lennox thun they.

885
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: Were going to ask you, did they screen content? Did

886
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: they say you shouldn't do that song? We don't like

887
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: that lyrics effort.

888
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: They were very good to me. Never once did they

889
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: ever ever treat me like that, So I just want

890
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: to brag on them. They were very good to me.

891
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: And it's not that I thought they would. I just

892
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: thought maybe today's maybe this is the right time to

893
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: do it. Man.

894
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you see this album Revolution as kind of

895
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 1: the soundtrack of the new counterculture that we're seeing emerging now?

896
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: I had hoped it would be, but the records kind

897
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: of officially be much bigger than it was for it

898
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: to be the official soundtrack. But you know, I did

899
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: feel the attitude, the attitude of that record felt right

900
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: to me because it felt genuinely American, which was sort

901
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: of the rebellion against tyranny is obedience to God, you

902
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: know the great quote. It felt like that to me,

903
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: like I'm not going to be your puppet and you

904
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: don't own me. We will do it on our own.

905
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: And these are the things we will live for and

906
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 2: stand up for. And you know you will not We

907
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: will not back down absolutely.

908
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: And see that's a perpetually young statement.

909
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: That's a young statement. Yes, it is.

910
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: It's forever young. Yes, I mean this is you know

911
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: why our friend Charlie Kirk lost his life in some way.

912
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: It's this idea. Yeah, I'm gonna stand, I'm gonna keep talking.

913
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep saying this, and God is really important

914
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: to your lives, which is something he was. I would

915
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: argue if you watch Charlie closely, early on, it was

916
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: all policy and free market. You know, Adam Smith. The

917
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: later moment he was closer to Billy Graham.

918
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: I think that's accurate. I mean, that's why I consider personally,

919
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: I considered a martyrdom because I think that the last

920
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: several years he has all the Adam Smith, which is great,

921
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: and we have the American liberty, and then it became

922
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: the gospel. The Christianity is the reason for all these

923
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: other good things, meaning, it's the reason for free economics,

924
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: it's the read. Of course, we have the Jews to

925
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 2: thank for a lot of this from the Hebrew Testament.

926
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: So I, you know, talk about somebody that made it

927
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 2: count in thirty one years, what he did in thirty

928
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: one years. I knew he was young. I didn't know

929
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: he was that young, and I just he laid it

930
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: on the line and I just I look at this

931
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 2: and think, is this didn't need to happen. This didn't

932
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 2: need to happen. The universities have really really not helped.

933
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: Hollywood has really not helped. We h I could talk

934
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: about that for an hour. It just emblazes man.

935
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's a heartbreaker. And he was You could

936
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: see him on a spiritual journey which he was kind

937
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: of sharing bit by bit as he learned it.

938
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: Right.

939
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, true that you could see him wrestling with this

940
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: and kind of explicating as he went. But if you

941
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: listen closely, it all became about lifestyle, marriage, family, morality, Yes,

942
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: and and ultimately Christian doctrine. That's really where he was.

943
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: True, and I think I think I would assume I

944
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: don't want to speak for him, but I assume the

945
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: reason I would say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, all

946
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: those same things is because that's where happiness is found.

947
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: It's when you when you try to find this is

948
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: this is sort of the Christian world view one on

949
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: one right, When you try to find your happiness outside

950
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: of God's order, outside of his created world, you just

951
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: don't find yourself happy. That's why Hollywood is full of

952
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: people that are friends of mine and great people, but

953
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: they are largely not happy, and no amount of money

954
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 2: or beauty. These are the These are the most beautiful

955
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: people God ever created, or some.

956
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: Surgeon created and with help, with help the surge. Why

957
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: I said, you're okay, you get I get the extra

958
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: day in purgatory Europe.

959
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: But these are beautiful people that never feel beautiful enough. Well,

960
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 2: why is that will? Once you step into God's created order,

961
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: once you find out is that people that might not

962
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: be objectively the most outwardly beautiful people in the world

963
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: feel very very at home in the acceptance they have

964
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: in God and in their husbands and their wives, and

965
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: the love they have their kids.

966
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: Well, that's the odd thing about it. And I think

967
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: Charlie's a great person to talk about because he started

968
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: this journey, and you're right, he was drawn to these

969
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: policies and he intellectually knew worked. Oh this works in history.

970
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: This is right? Then? Is he married, became a father?

971
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: Let's face it. You find your purpose as a man,

972
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: you do. You don't find your purpose until you're married

973
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 1: and have a child. I mean, at least in my case,

974
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: you don't. And your work is kind of meaningless without that.

975
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you have that kid and all this I

976
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: remember when we had our first kid, I remember thinking,

977
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: I literally don't even care about music anymore. There was

978
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: a time and I'm like, I don't even care. And

979
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: it's just it's so small compared to this thing that

980
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: you can't explain that you love so much. Yeah, what

981
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: a miracle.

982
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: It's part of yourself. It's a part of your soul.

983
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: Man, you can't even you can't even describe.

984
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: And the responsibility, you know, responsibility is a great thing.

985
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what's called to You're ultimately called to

986
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: love and responsibility and giving yourself to others. And a

987
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: child and a wife demands those things.

988
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's one of my favorite things about Catholic

989
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 2: theology is the idea of responsibility and freedom being found

990
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: and pursuing what is virtuous. That is a beautiful piece

991
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 2: of Catholic philosophy.

992
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's and it's true, and it has it

993
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: has he added advantage of being true. I have. I

994
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: have a questionnaire that I ask everybody. Okay, that's in

995
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: that chair, I'm ready. I don't want you to think.

996
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: I just want you to say.

997
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 2: Say, okay, okay, this is in the game, this is you.

998
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: If my dad was here, my Dad would say, this

999
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: is what I do best?

1000
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: Ya?

1001
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: Oh good, not thinking and selling me.

1002
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 1: Just say, who's the person you most admire?

1003
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: Oh? A guy called Dave Buzzby that no one knows.

1004
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean who he is.

1005
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: He was a a preacher you He taught at youth

1006
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: camps when I was growing up. He died. He was

1007
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 2: assistant vibrosis and polio. Wasn't supposed to live past nine

1008
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: years old. Died at forty nine. Preached to kids his

1009
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: whole life.

1010
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: Wow, who's the person you most despise?

1011
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: Jean? Maybe Lenin?

1012
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: Lenin? Yeah, did you know him?

1013
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: No, I need to know.

1014
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: You don't have to know that. Many of you can

1015
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: ask anything. What's your best feature?

1016
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 2: My sense of humor?

1017
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: What's your worst?

1018
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: My temper?

1019
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: Oh? Do you have a temper?

1020
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 2: Not often?

1021
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: Oh?

1022
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: Yes, but that's what my song Monster is about. He

1023
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: didn't come out much, but when he does Monster, you're like, Oh,

1024
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: I see, I got a little devil in sign. We

1025
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: got to get rid of that guy.

1026
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: We all have a little we all have a little

1027
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: one running around. Your favorite book and the last book

1028
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: you read.

1029
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: Oh, I love reading. My favorite fiction is Frankenstein. I

1030
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: love Frankenstein. Really, I don't know why. Maybe it was

1031
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: one of the first ones that I started reading, and

1032
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 2: I was just I just felt it was so I

1033
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: expected it to be a horror. I expect it to

1034
00:52:59,480 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: be different.

1035
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1036
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: It was sad and it was romantic, and it said

1037
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: a lot about human nature. I thought some pretty deep stuff.

1038
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: You know. The last book I read was Athanacious on

1039
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: the Incarnation. Wowe, it was just fantastic. That's prettythacious.

1040
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: Yes, you're not doing you're not reading Tom Clancy. That's interesting.

1041
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: What do you fear sharks?

1042
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 2: I am deathly afraid of sharks. I think it's because

1043
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: I was born in seventy five and Jaws was on

1044
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: TV all the time in seventy eight nine. Ages scared

1045
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: me to death.

1046
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: So you just put your feet in the water. You

1047
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:37,879
Speaker 1: don't go deep.

1048
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: I used to like go in a bit and then

1049
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: the all right, guys, I'm not I'm never going in

1050
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: that ocean again.

1051
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: We're learning a lot here today, Jo, What do you

1052
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: know that no one else knows?

1053
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know if I know anything that no

1054
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: one else. I mean, I have some good ideas about

1055
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: music that I'm not sure that everybody.

1056
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: What do you know about music?

1057
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 2: I mean, certainly other people would know, but I think

1058
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: it's just the idea that I believe that music is

1059
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: one of the only things that we have now that

1060
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 2: has been has been for eternity, eternity past, and eternity fututure.

1061
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: You know, I did a Christmas show and we talked

1062
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 1: about this, how the ghost of Christmas past and future

1063
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: are all in those songs because it's the only genre

1064
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: really that our great great great grandmother sang and that

1065
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: our great great grandchildren will be singing. There's no other

1066
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: genre like it. Yeah, I mean religious music, but the

1067
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: Christmas music in a big secular way, that's all there is.

1068
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

1069
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: Actually, what's the greatest virtue?

1070
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 2: Virtue? Yeah, maybe humility. I don't know. It's the first

1071
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: one that came home. I didn't think about it.

1072
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: I just said humility is a good one.

1073
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 2: Yes, because Satan had a loose red pride.

1074
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: That's right. That's why I can't I don't want that one.

1075
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: What word could you not live without? Beyond?

1076
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 2: Probably? Dude? Dude?

1077
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: What's very cleaned up? If you if you could live

1078
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: anywhere but where you live, where would it be?

1079
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 2: Ooh? Probably Florida?

1080
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: Why? Uh?

1081
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: Well, I like the weather a lot.

1082
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 1: That hot weather. You you live in Nashville, It's beautiful weather.

1083
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: Here anywhere else besides.

1084
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: It, it's hot, sticky human No why I like it?

1085
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: I hate that wife she loves that too. She that's

1086
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: that sticky hot. Well, I live in New Orleans. You

1087
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: can come visit.

1088
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: New Orleans is sticky what.

1089
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: Florida is sticky?

1090
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 2: Earth?

1091
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's worse because you get the

1092
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 1: water on both sides.

1093
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm weird.

1094
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 1: What is your biggest regret?

1095
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: I wanted. I wish I had served my country. I

1096
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: took very seriously trying to become a marine, which is funny.

1097
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 2: I could never be a marine, but I liked the

1098
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: idea of it. You know. I met with an officer

1099
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: my senior year high school. Wow, and I would have

1100
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: From what happened, I don't remember. It just was like

1101
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: should I should? I'm just not really sure, you know,

1102
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: And part of it was probably just trying to run

1103
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 2: away from some of the things in my life. But

1104
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: also I just like, I just wanted the idea of

1105
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 2: serving America.

1106
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the best advice you ever got?

1107
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 2: Seek first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and

1108
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: everything else. Will be added to you.

1109
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 1: Who gave it to you or did you find it yourself?

1110
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: My mom?

1111
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: Your mother?

1112
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.

1113
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: She would say that all the time.

1114
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we sing it in a song, which goes

1115
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 2: back to the power of music. You always remember it

1116
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: when you sing it in.

1117
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: A song, right, wow, at night.

1118
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 2: Anytime, really, just singing around the house or whatever. You know,

1119
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: it's a song. I've bet a lot of people watching

1120
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: remember that.

1121
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: If you could not do what you're doing, what would

1122
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: you do?

1123
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: Youth ministry? Really, I would like you.

1124
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: Really are a youth minister. They'll be honest. I mean, yeah,

1125
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean you do. I mean I hear it in

1126
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: your lyrics, but more importantly, you see it in your crowds.

1127
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: You have a young crowd coming, you obviously have a

1128
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: heart for them, and you're writing to them and for them, right,

1129
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: And I would argue that's why, that's why they turn

1130
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: up and they don't turn up to other rock bands

1131
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: of thirty or forty year vintage.

1132
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: Well, that's very that's very insightful. I do think there's

1133
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: some similarities. Plus, I'm still immature, still do dumb stuff.

1134
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: You gotta do a bunch of dumb stuff. If you're

1135
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:45,919
Speaker 2: gonna be a youth worker.

1136
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: Well, my wife says, veryimond, you're a seven year older.

1137
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: That's true, keeps us keeps us vible.

1138
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: Why not?

1139
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: Why not? Before I let you go? And I have

1140
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: one more question for you. You must tell me about

1141
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: the rebellion of your son. You rebell against your father

1142
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: and listen to and roll what happens with your son?

1143
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I remember always making a joke about

1144
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: it with my daughter and my son be like, yeah,

1145
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: they'll probably rebel and they'll never listen to rock music.

1146
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: They're just gonna listen to classical music. And all my

1147
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: friends would laugh. It was funny. And then my son

1148
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: just became less and less, you know, like like me,

1149
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, like, this is so weird. He loves opera.

1150
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: He soon has to be like, what are you gonna

1151
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: do tonight, buddy. He's like, I'm thinking of listening to

1152
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: the so and so thirty nine. I don't even know

1153
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: the names of them. And they're long. I didn't know

1154
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 2: operas were long. They'll be like two hours long and

1155
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: go up and so we'll buy him like a record

1156
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: for Christmas. We'll go up in three hours, sit there

1157
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: and listen to the opera and they'll sing along with it,

1158
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: and he'll sing in Italian and all sorts of stuff. Wow,

1159
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: he's he's wicked smart, wicked, wicked smart. I mean, by

1160
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 2: the time he was fifteen, So here's a funny story,

1161
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: was on the road. Most of the people that work

1162
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 2: for me. I have twelve employees are not religious at all. Really, yeah,

1163
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 2: not conservative. They're either progressive or just general center left.

1164
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 2: By the time he was fifteen years old, we would

1165
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: be at catering altogether on tour and he would be

1166
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: arguing politics with with thrown men. Yeah, I'll never forget it.

1167
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 2: I remember one time he was argue with them about whatever.

1168
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: I remember thinking like, how is he learning all this stuff?

1169
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: And I remember saying that, son, where did you actually

1170
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: hear about because we would talk about it. But he's

1171
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 2: really smart. He's like he's just like he's like, well,

1172
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: that's remember that's that's the Jordan Peterson thing that we

1173
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: went to. And I was like, is that what he

1174
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: was saying?

1175
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: You know where you see when you when you train

1176
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: yourself to listen to three hour operas, Jordan Peterson's yeah,

1177
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: it's a cake, that's what it is. And that's an

1178
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: hour and a half. You're in and out. He gets it,

1179
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: so it takes I've always thought, look, I love, but

1180
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: I've always thought it's a great place to nap.

1181
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: You know.

1182
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, I mean there's a big arius I love,

1183
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: but the lead.

1184
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 2: Up, oh, it's all.

1185
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: On the way up.

1186
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 2: I told him I'm gonna make a shirt for him.

1187
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: It says Mozart is my Metallica that he says, He's like,

1188
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 2: I will wear that shirt.

1189
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: Cat. Okay, last question, what happens when this is over?

1190
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 2: When music is over? I don't know, you know, I

1191
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: enjoy church work a lot. Whatever that looks like. I

1192
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 2: don't even know what church work means. Helping out, speaking

1193
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: here or there, still doing podcasting and interviewing with people

1194
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: if I've got something good to say. Don't always have

1195
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: something good to say, but if I do, that could

1196
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: be good. You know. I like that kind of stuff,

1197
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: organizing locally for various things, you know, doing there. Yeah,

1198
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: just helping out with those kinds of things.

1199
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: You know. I love that question because everybody interprets it

1200
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: their own way. Most of the time, it's you mean

1201
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: life or this interview. That's usually what they asked me.

1202
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: You went right to music, all right, Yeah, I said,

1203
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: what happens when this is over?

1204
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, that's true.

1205
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yes, music is still front and center.

1206
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: John still front and center. Man. Not ready to be

1207
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: done yet.

1208
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: God keep it coming.

1209
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1210
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: Great to see. Yeah, pleasure, thank you.

1211
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1212
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: John is such a cool guy. Obviously everyone can't do it,

1213
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: but it's nice to see the way he's incorporated his

1214
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: family into his work. That collaboration and familial partnership is

1215
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: a good note for all of us. There's a story

1216
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: I came across recently where a music executive told Cooper

1217
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: point blank he could be the biggest man in the

1218
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: world if he would just stop talking about Jesus. He said,

1219
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: I know, that's not of the Lord. He went home,

1220
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: he told his wife, they prayed, and they kept right

1221
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: on talking and singing about you, Jesus. You can't go

1222
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: wrong staying near the big guy. My thanks to John Cooper,

1223
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: and I hope you'll come back to a royal grande soon.

1224
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: Why settle for a dry, constricted life when if you

1225
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: fill it with wisdom and knowledge, it can flow into

1226
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: a broad, driving arroyo grande. I'm raiming Arroyo make sure

1227
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: you subscribe like this episode. It was good, wasn't it.

1228
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for diving in. We'll see you next time. Arroyo

1229
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: Grande is produced in partnership with DP Studios and iHeart Podcasts,

1230
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: and it's available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you

1231
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: get your podcasts