WEBVTT - Heroes and Villans 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.960 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.840 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.400 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or their employees. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.840 This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:16.880 suitable for everyone. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:22.280 Listening to. Discretion is advised. Radical is released every Tuesday 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.520 and brought to you absolutely free, but if you want 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.880 ad free listening and early access to next week's episode, 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:34.480 subscribe to tenderfoot Plus. For more information, check out tenderfootplus 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:47.839 dot com. Enjoy the episode Gamsite Media. On the night 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.000 of the shooting in the West End March sixteenth, two thousand, 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.680 Atlanta Police detective Brett Zimbrick was working in his cubicle. 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.000 It was a Thursday, and Brett's shift ran from three 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.640 pm to eleven pm. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.880 Thursday nights were Fridays for most of us. We had 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.880 either Friday and Saturday off or at Sunday and Monday off, 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:08.840 So Thursday night was a Friday night for me. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.920 So that you're kind of like winding down, getting ready 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:12.880 for the weekend, right. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.280 And a weekly tradition is to go to the local 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.280 drinking establishment and all the cops that are off on 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.240 Friday would show up and you know, have a beer 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:26.640 or two and start the weekend that way. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:31.959 Brett was about to head out and get a beer 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.640 with his buddies when one of the Fulton County Sheriff's 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.039 deputies on duty in the West End, Algernon English, made 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.080 a distress call on his radio. He and his partner 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:49.760 and Rickie Kinchin were taking fire and Kenchin was down. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.440 English said he and Kinchin were at an address on 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.720 Oak Street. Brett grabbed his keys and rushed toward the 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.519 West End because it was a cop who had been shot. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.120 He told me everyone was responding, bolting from their desks 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.519 for their cars. Brent knew that when he arrived he 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.120 would be in charge of the crime scene. On the 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.239 drive across the city, he was listening to his police radio. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:27.760 It's chaotic. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:29.480 It's a zoo for real. 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.280 I mean, you have no idea that they had no 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.520 idea where the shooter was, or if it was somebody 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.400 that was getting high ground on them or whatever. But 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.320 their priority at that point was to get medical assistance 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.040 to the officers that were down. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.360 And having worked so many homicides by that point, is 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:52.000 this a heightened level of emotion and chaos. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.679 Because it's an officer who was involved, right, Because back 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.640 in two thousand, unlike today, you know, it was a 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.680 big deal to shoot the cops. Now not so much, 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.680 but back then it was a big deal. If the 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.919 cops were shot, then this was somebody that was really 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:11.120 desperate or you know, angry, whatever, but there was, you know, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.280 some passion behind the event of shooting law enforcement. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.079 It's still a big deal to shoot a police officer. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.360 But I think I get what Brett is saying. The 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.720 uprisings of the past few years have brought the police 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.240 as an institution. The police has this unimpeachable arm of 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.919 law and order down to a much more human size. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.280 Respect for the position isn't what it used to be, 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.760 and that has to sting. By the time Brett arrived 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.040 at the scene in the West End, the two deputies 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.240 who were shot, English and Kenchin, they were already in 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.600 ambulances on their way to the hospital. 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.560 Brett was a methodical. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.760 Cop, not the running gun type, the trim white guy 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.080 in his late thirties who prided himself on being smarter 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.520 than the next guy. His eyes were immediately drawn to 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.240 all the evidence the police would need to collect and organize. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.040 Cops fanned out in the neighborhood to canvas for even 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.280 more evidence and knock on doors asking if anyone had 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:15.680 seen or. 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:16.560 Heard what happened. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.120 But most of the Muslims who lived nearby, the members 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.240 of the mass died, they weren't talking. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.920 There wasn't a whole lot of onlookers for this event, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:28.200 which was rare. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.560 Did the lack of onlookers mean anything to. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.440 You, Well, it wasn't a shock. I don't think it 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.760 was the West End. It was the corner store there 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.440 at West End Place. So it was one of those 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.000 neighborhoods where there wasn't a whole lot of late night 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.480 you know, shenanigans. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:48.920 I see. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.600 So it's kind of representative of the folks there are 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.800 not really out in the street at. 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.280 That hour, right, Yeah, the West End is kind of 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.160 you know, controlled, Right, It was a different neighborhood, right. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.839 Brett focused on the physical evidence at the scene, dozens 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.320 of shell casings and bullets lit up by the street 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.839 lights and lying in the grass. There was a small 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.600 stack of paper, four pages or so stapled together. Only 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.960 the top sheet was initially visible white paper with black 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.040 type and an image of a sheriff's batch. The page 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.760 was covered with splotches of blood, and there was a 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.920 bullet hole right through the center. It was a warrant, 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.760 please arrest this subject. The first paragraph said the deputies 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:43.279 had been out looking for someone. There is perhaps no 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.520 greater emblem of the promise of the American criminal legal 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.880 system than the warrant. A document that grants officers of 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.839 the law the power to jail people, to search them, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.160 to take their property after a judge approves. That's the 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.119 bedrock of our legal system. What our constitution and court's 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.360 promise police power with constraint, with judicial oversight and the 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.159 interest of public safety. Cops aren't supposed to just break 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.000 down doors, or search cars, or detain people whenever they please. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:14.880 This is an idea that goes back to the Bill 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:21.359 of Rights. It's also an idea that hasn't worked in 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.800 everyone's favor. And that night in the West End, someone 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.480 deemed it all worthy of destruction. Maybe they thought they 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.640 were exempt, or that police and the legal system were 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.760 only out to get them. In any case, they shot 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.400 it all up. All of the criminal procedure wrapped up 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.800 in that document, bloodied it. If this were a piece 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.719 of fiction. Maybe you'd find the symbolism too heavy handed, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.839 too literal, maybe even melodramatic, like something out of an 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.599 old Western. A warrant shot through the center, along with 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.080 the deputies who carried it. But this is in fact 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.280 what happened. Someone shot up the system and then got 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:06.840 the hell out of dodge. Printed on that bloody to 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:12.160 rest warrant was the name Jamil Abdellah Alamin. The warrant 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:16.520 was for man Jamil. There was a physical description black 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.720 mail six feet five inches tall, one hundred and eighty 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.360 seven pounds, with gray eyes and brown hair, and a 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:30.840 note of caution the subject could be armed. From Campside Media, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:36.680 Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart podcasts, This is Radical, I'm Mosty's Secret, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:08:10.320 episode two, Heroes and Villains. About a year before the shootout, 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.080 AmAm Jamil was driving a green Ford Explorer in Cobb County, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.040 a suburban county just north of Atlanta. The suv had 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.720 a dealer license played on it, and a local police 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.960 officer spotted the vehicle, turned on his patrol lights and 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:30.200 pulled a Mamjamil over. The officer said in court that 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.120 when he asked for license and registration, a Maam Jamil's 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.400 hands were shaking. The paperwork didn't check out. The explorer 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.200 had been reported stolen, so the officer took him to jail, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.440 where he stayed a few hours until he posted bond. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.120 I should note here that years later the traffic stop 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:51.320 was ruled unconstitutional. There was no probable cause for the stop, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.439 and a Mam Demial was never convicted of anything related 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:54.880 to it. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:57.960 Anyway. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.120 In January of two thousand, he had a court dat 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.880 in the case, but there was an ice storm and 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.040 the judge delayed the proceedings by two hours. A Mam 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.240 Jamial never showed up, and the judge issued a warrant 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.520 for his arrest. That was the warrant that the deputies 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.040 had with them on the night of the shootout. It 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.920 was why they were in the West End. When Atlanta 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.480 Police Detective Brett Ziembrick saw that warrant, now bloodied and 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.240 with a boat hole in it, he logically concluded that 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:31.000 a Ma'am Jamil was his main suspect. After Brett got 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.079 up the next morning, he learned that Deputy Algernon English 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.760 was awake and ready to talk. English and Deputy Ricky 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.040 Kinchin had both been through surgery. Kenchin was hit at 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:45.520 least six times, English at least three times. Brett went 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.199 to English's room at the hospital to interview him. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.640 He's remarkably alert. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:54.440 I was shocked that he was. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.160 I mean, not upbeat, but his attitude was, you know, 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:03.679 me and my partner got shot. We got to get 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.680 the bad guy. I need to tell you my side 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:10.360 of the story. You know, he wasn't like TV guy 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.240 and lighten in the hospital with you know, hoses coming 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.160 out of his nose and mouth and all that stuff. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:20.160 He was, you know, surprisingly alert and upbeat for what 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:21.000 had happened to him. 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.520 Zimbert began to interview English on March sixteenth, two thousand. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.199 English's workday began at around two thirty in the afternoon. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.439 He went to the Sheriff's office in downtown Atlanta for 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.760 a roll call, where he was assigned to ride with 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.360 Deputy Kenchin. They were given fifteen warrants to execute for 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.560 their shift that ended at midnight, and they'd consider themselves 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.880 lucky if they were able to find even one person 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.559 and arrest them. That was the nature of the work. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.960 Kenchin and English had worked together before. They made something 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.559 of a balanced pair Kenchin, a thirty five year old 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.040 black deputy with a thin mustache who was known for 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.520 his charm. He was the more senior of the two 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.720 had worked in the department for at least seven years. English, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.439 who was also black, had been there for just three 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.360 years before that, he was in the Marine Corps. After 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.680 Kinchin and English had been out for about three hours, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.600 they ate dinner at a wingspot in Atlanta called JR. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:17.600 Crickets. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.720 After the meal, Kinchin called his wife to check in 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.720 and the two deputies drove their marked carr a Crown 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:25.319 Victoria to the West End. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:32.880 So he had them eating lunch. We approached the location 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.200 from Oak Street. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.520 This is a recording of English while he was still 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.840 in the hospital. English said that he and Kenchin pulled 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.120 up in front of the address that was on the warrant, 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.040 the corner store in the West End run by a 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:44.640 man Jamil. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.200 We noticed that there was no life running in the store. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:50.760 In the back on the deck, there was no life 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.040 indicating someone was there. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.760 English and Kensin drove off. Kenchin was behind the wheel, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.160 and then in the rear view mirror he saw black 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.480 Mercedes pull up next to the store. A man stepped 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.040 out of the vehicle and onto the sidewalk. He was 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.400 wearing a trench coat and a skull cap of some kind, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:09.800 and he looked like he was taller than six feet, 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:11.599 which fit the description. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:12.240 On the warrant. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.960 Kenchin turned their car around and drove back. The deputies 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.320 pulled up in front of the other car, so the 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.480 Sheriff's crowned Vic and the Mercedes were facing each other, 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:28.679 their headlights on. English told Kenchin, Okay. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:29.560 We're going to count to three. 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.040 They opened their doors and got out, and I. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.720 Needed to notice the gentlemen. I couldn't see his right hand, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.920 so I said, sir, I need to see. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.800 Your right hand, Kenchin. At the driver's side of the 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.680 crown Vic. He was sort of diagonal to the man, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.480 but English was facing him straight on. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.120 My mom always told me look a man in his eye, 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:55.679 always looking man. 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.000 Is so. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:01.959 Because I was looking at him in his eyes and 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.880 I remember him gray eyes, so I couldn't man, I 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.719 remember that face, that face, that cold face, so I 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.600 couldn't forget that. That's when he frowned at me and 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:17.000 he noted me with yeah him all and me aggressive 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.520 metal like yeah, and introduced the black O fault rifle 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:23.720 and start firing at me. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.320 The first round hit English in the hip nearest holster. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:29.360 It's stung and burned. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.720 I realized, Oh, this is this real life. It's not 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:34.559 really a dream. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:35.720 It's happened. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.880 It was happening so fast because he didn't give him 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.520 a chance of doing anything else. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.240 At some point, the pepper spray cannisterer on English's hip 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.800 had been hit and the chemical was in his eyes. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.520 He drew his pistol, a forty caliber glock, and fired back. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:52.079 He said he hit the man. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.560 In these moments, the way English tells it, the situation 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.239 brought him right back to was training in the Marine Corps. 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.839 He he determined he was facing a terrorist attack because 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.760 terrorists are trained to kill, and they know that cops 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.839 wear bulletproof vests, so they shoot at the waist and 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:14.199 the hips of their targets. English also figured it was 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.800 an ambush and he was outgunned, facing a rifle with 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.120 a pistol. He was inside what he was trained to 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.360 call the kill zone. The only way to survive was 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.800 to get out of there, and to do that he 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.720 had to run through it. So he dashed between the 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.760 cars and I. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.240 Was running and I was screaming and yelling and firing 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.640 back at him and trying to get out of the 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:38.440 kill zone. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.480 He ended up across the street, lying in the grass 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.120 next to the mast shit. He could feel that he'd 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:46.280 been shot in the arm too. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.480 English called out for Kenchin. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.720 Then he heard more assault rifle fire and shots from 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.360 a smaller gun. When it stopped, English thought the man 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.480 was walking towards him, coming over to finish him off. 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.720 I was screaming, yelling, please don't shoot me, no more. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.040 Don't shoot me no more, don't shoot me no more. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.400 But there was no more gunfire. English was lying in 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.960 the grass, curled in the fetal position. He couldn't feel 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.000 his legs. His radio mic was still attached to his 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.240 shoulder and he turned his head to speak into it. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:27.400 It was like America just came over. He just came 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:34.680 to the fence, and I said, my God said talking tall, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.320 just talk to everybody. Can let the whole one know 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.040 what's going on. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:40.640 So I just I. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.200 Just pressed the mic and just start talking and give 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:43.720 him the rest. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.640 The location where we were, English heard a car start 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:53.160 and drive off. Other law enforcement arrived moments later. They 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.240 found Keenchin lying in the middle of the street and 0:15:55.320 --> 0:16:02.000 English in the grass next to the mast. The morning 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.520 after the shootout at the hospital, Brett Zimbrick the detective, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.560 he had a photo lineup of six men, one of 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.640 them a man Jamial. He wanted to see if English 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.240 could id the man he said he looked in the 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.160 eye the man who shot him in Keinchin. According to 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.240 his report, Brett didn't ask English if he'd seen anyone 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.280 else with a gun before Brett showed English the lineup. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.160 He wanted to make sure that English would make a 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.240 choice based solely on his memory from that night, So 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.280 Brett asked English some questions. 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.240 Had you seen TV? No, has anybody told you who 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:37.000 you were going after? 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:37.240 No? 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.000 Has anybody told you who shot you? 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:39.120 No? 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:41.720 Do you know who you were going after? 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.480 And that, to me was important because if he would 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.240 have said that, then there would have been some question 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.200 on the lineup. He never mentioned it. He didn't have 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.600 any idea who this man was, so the lineup was 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:55.760 a pure lineup. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.800 Brett concluded that English didn't know of a man Jamil 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.720 before that night, that he hadn't seen him on TV, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.760 that he didn't remember h Rap Brown from some history 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.040 class that he didn't know about the rotten relationship between 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.199 Rapp and the police, so Brett showed him the lineup. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.960 He looks at the lineup and immediately goes to alamine 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.920 and says, that's the guy. I said, that's the guy. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.320 What he says, that's the guy that shot me and 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:20.840 my partner. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.919 Actually, he said, that's the motherfucker who shot me and 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:32.760 my partner. By that afternoon, Brett went to a judge 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.399 for warrance to arrest a Maam Jamil on charges of 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.480 aggravated assault for shooting Kensin and English, but he had 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.920 to go back later that day to get the warrant updated. 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.800 English survived, but Kenchin had died in the hospital. Now 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.399 Ma'am Jamil was wanted for murder. English's account is not 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:57.240 without detractors, and rightfully so. There are inconsistencies, some that 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.520 even suggest that a Maam Jamial wasn't the person who 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.280 shot the day, but law enforcement tends to trust an 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.480 injured officer their account can generate appointed and powerful energy 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:14.840 to catch the alleged criminal at almost any cost. For 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.280 most of the twenty years I've been a journalist, I've 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.919 covered the criminal court system in America. We have an 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:26.040 adversarial system prosecutors and police officers against alleged criminals and 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.159 their lawyers, And I'm starting to think that's at the 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.360 root of something I keep bumping into while reporting this story. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.840 And us versus them, mentality, good guys versus bad guys, 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:42.120 even some cosmic battle between righteousness and evil are countless 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:47.120 TV crime dramas, only reinforced and heighten the stakes when 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.840 people enter this territory. In their thinking, something is lost 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.360 about how they see the human beings on the other side. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.679 Something beautiful that I believe, which is that nearly all 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.879 of us have a heroic impulse to do what we 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.920 think is good. Sure some people are thwarted and get 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.320 it really really twisted. 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.200 Still we all have it. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.439 But law enforcement, I wonder how much they see that. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.919 What I most often heard from them and working on 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.119 the story was some version of the good versus evil philosophy. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.120 Maybe if your whole job is looking for people you're 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.920 told or bad guys, you're going to believe they're inherently bad. 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.640 Some people definitely do awful things to others, don't get 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.720 me wrong, but losing sight of human goodness, staying entrenched 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.400 in that adversarial system. It limits any chance of finding 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:45.080 common cause justice and that deeper sense the US versus 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.000 them mentality. It fosters camaraderie and loyalty. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.520 On each side. 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.719 In the hours after the shootout in the West End, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.560 Brett Zimbrick was feeling some of the pressure that comes 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.600 with that pressure to look out for his fellow cops. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.159 It took Brett less than twenty four hours to get 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.399 an arrest warrant for a Ma'am Jamil for shooting the 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:05.200 two deputies. 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.680 Some investigations, you know, bad guys there on the scene 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.879 gets taken into custody. Others, you know, it takes days, weeks, months, 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:21.640 sometimes years for it to be law enforcement that was shot. 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:27.520 It was probably pretty important for morale and confidence in 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.760 the police department that we got warrants quick. I'm sure 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.719 cops appreciate the fact that we work quick and efficiently 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.639 and diligently to get the bad guys off the street. 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:42.240 So it wasn't just law enforcement in Atlanta that was 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.240 paying special attention to the case. It would have been 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.959 law enforcement around the country at all levels. That's because 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.679 a Ma'am Jamil had a reputation with law enforcement that 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.200 began to develop when he was still a trap Brown. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.480 I want to go back to a story about how 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.679 that reputation crystallized, how cops came to view him something 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.800 like an enemy. It helps explain some of the ways 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.000 law enforcement acted in the days after the shootout as 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.600 they chased down a man Jamil. In nineteen seventy one, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:14.879 during a period when Rap was in hiding in on 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.000 the FBI's most wanted list, he and three other men, 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.760 also Black Power activists, carried gans into a club in Manhattan. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.080 Most if not all, the customers at the bar were black. 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.040 The four men held them up, hit them for cash 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.800 and jewelry. When police arrived, Rap fled and the chase 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.119 led police to the roof of a nearby apartment building. 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.520 An officer shot and wounded Rap and carried him bleeding 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.560 down thirteen flights of stairs to the street, not knowing 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:48.040 who he was. There was gambling happening at the club, 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.919 and at the trial, Rap's defense tried to introduce evidence 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.439 that the police were on the take and covering up 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.680 a legal activity. It was never proven, but stealing from 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.920 a corrupt syndicate might have been motive for Rap and 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.439 the other men. The whole episode, including a blow by 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.560 blow account of the chase and the shooting, was chronicled 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.080 in a New York magazine story written by a retired 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.840 police commissioner. It celebrated the officer who shot Rap is 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:22.200 a hero. Decades later, in two thousand, bred Zimberg got 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:23.520 a call from that same officer. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:25.800 What did he say? 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.399 He was just checking on the officers. He was just like, hey, man, 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.720 I'm the one that you know was involved in that shootout, 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.439 shot him, arrested him. He said he was, you know, 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:38.720 you know, the old cop thing. He tried to be 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:40.399 a badass. You know, like if I'd have known then 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.359 what I know now, I'd have shot him more or something, 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.320 you know whatever, something like that. 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:49.560 That New York cop and maybe others in law enforcement, 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.560 they seem to think Rap was a violent criminal out 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:53.040 to get them. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.080 Specifically, I'd have shot him more, the officer told Brett. 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.359 A homicide. To prevent a homicide, a bad guy dies, 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.560 so a good guy lives. It's a pernicious way of 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.119 thinking that can spin out of control. It does remind 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.560 me of how one of a man Jamil supporters, Belal 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.560