WEBVTT - Why We Need Small Talk from The Art of Small Talk

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, Hello revisionist history listeners. Today we're diving into the

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<v Speaker 2>world of human interaction with the smallest of exchanges can

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<v Speaker 2>have profound impacts on our lives. That's right, we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>small talk. For the latest Pushkin audiobook, I was interviewed

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<v Speaker 2>by comedians and actresses Casey Wilson and Jessica Saint Clair

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<v Speaker 2>in the Art of Small Talk. They explore the joy

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<v Speaker 2>of everyday conversations, helping listeners turn the mundane into magic

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<v Speaker 2>through what some might call idle chit chat. They have

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<v Speaker 2>such great chemistry and say such insightful things that it

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<v Speaker 2>makes for an incredibly entertaining audiobook. So I'm happy to

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<v Speaker 2>share a clip of my contribution to the project right now,

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<v Speaker 2>and remember you can purchase The Art of Small Talk

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<v Speaker 2>at Pushkin dot fm slash audiobook. So let's sit back,

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<v Speaker 2>relax and learn from the masters of small talk. Casey

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<v Speaker 2>Wilson and Jessica Saint Clair.

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<v Speaker 3>Take it away, Chapter one, Why we need small Talk.

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<v Speaker 3>Much has been made of self care in the last decade. Hydration, here, yoga, there, gratitude,

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<v Speaker 3>journaling everywhere. It can be exhausting and when we don't

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<v Speaker 3>follow the so called rules we often feel guilty, which

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<v Speaker 3>has the reverse outcome for our overall well being.

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<v Speaker 1>Jess and I believe that small talk is both the

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<v Speaker 1>easiest and most important form of self care because of

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<v Speaker 1>its proven benefits on our mental and physical health.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's psychologist, author, and social science columnists for The Wall

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<v Speaker 3>Street Journal Susan Pinker giving her ted talk. The secret

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<v Speaker 3>to living longer could be your social life.

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<v Speaker 4>Face to face contact release is a whole cascade of neurotransmitters,

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<v Speaker 4>and like a vaccine, they protect you now, in the

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<v Speaker 4>present and well into the future. So simply making eye

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<v Speaker 4>contact with somebody, shaking hands, giving somebody a high five

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<v Speaker 4>is enough to release oxytocin, which increases your level of trust,

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<v Speaker 4>and it lowers your cortisol levels, so it lowers your stress.

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<v Speaker 4>And dopamine is generated, which gives us a little high

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<v Speaker 4>and it kills pain. It's like a naturally produced morphine.

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<v Speaker 1>It kills pain. Okay, So this all makes sense to

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<v Speaker 1>me because small talk is why I no longer fear

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<v Speaker 1>the dentist. For my entire life, I have been absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>terrified of the dentist because when I was little, I

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<v Speaker 1>got slapped for shocker talking too much in the chair.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to go under anesthesia for root canals, and

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<v Speaker 1>I had to get laughing gas for cleanings. I was

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<v Speaker 1>so scared.

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<v Speaker 3>What for cleanings is that even allowed for a price?

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<v Speaker 3>So it's off menu.

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<v Speaker 1>I never claimed to be relatable anyway. That's all in

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<v Speaker 1>the past, because this year I finally found a dental hygienis.

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<v Speaker 1>Shout out to Darwin, who likes the same TV shows

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<v Speaker 1>as I do. Once he and I get to chatting,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm too distracted by the feel good hormones rushing through

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<v Speaker 1>my body that I'm no longer scared at all. Small

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<v Speaker 1>talking with my new hygienist is my new laughing guest.

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<v Speaker 3>If anyone could maintain a steady stream of combo while

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<v Speaker 3>getting their teeth cleaned, it is you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard with all those sharp tools in your mouth,

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<v Speaker 1>but I make it work.

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<v Speaker 3>What an odd and yet beautiful endorsement of small talk.

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<v Speaker 1>It might be time for an intervention because Jessica and

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<v Speaker 1>I are addicted to small talk, which is okay because

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<v Speaker 1>as addictions go, and I have several, small talk is

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<v Speaker 1>a great one to have because it gets you high

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<v Speaker 1>as hell, and it's free.

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<v Speaker 3>And we're in good company. Case comedic legend with hair

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<v Speaker 3>like spun gold. Amy Poehler also takes advantage of every

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<v Speaker 3>opportunity she gets to use small talk.

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<v Speaker 5>I think anytime you can say thank you, thank you

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<v Speaker 5>for helping, thank you for coming. Uh, I see, I

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<v Speaker 5>see how hard you're working, you're doing a great any

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<v Speaker 5>kind of version of that, the tiniest bit of that.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you can say that and you can keep moving.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't have to, but that little arm squeeze as

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<v Speaker 5>it or can go a long way. And I know

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<v Speaker 5>for me, when someone does it for me, it's like

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<v Speaker 5>getting your tank filled.

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<v Speaker 3>Small talk does a body good. You'll be happy to

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<v Speaker 3>hear that. Small talk doesn't even have to be actual talk.

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<v Speaker 3>Will delve further into this later on, but a study

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<v Speaker 3>co authored by psychology professor Elizabeth Dunn from the University

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<v Speaker 3>of British Columbia discovered that even non verbal interactions with

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<v Speaker 3>strangers like smiling and making eye contact resulted in feelings

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<v Speaker 3>of belonging and increased happiness. And do you know what

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<v Speaker 3>increased feelings of belonging and happiness lead to a longer life.

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<v Speaker 3>Longevity is having a moment, hopefully a long moment, because

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<v Speaker 3>as it turns out the majority of us are searching

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<v Speaker 3>for that magical formula to keep us on this rock

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<v Speaker 3>a little long.

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<v Speaker 1>Which I'm personally not as concerned with because I believe

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<v Speaker 1>in past and future lives, so I know there's more

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<v Speaker 1>And where this came from.

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<v Speaker 3>Casey careful And while diet, exercise, and environment have long

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<v Speaker 3>been known factors towards longevity, Susan Pinker also says that

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<v Speaker 3>social interaction, including small talk, is the number one secret

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<v Speaker 3>to living a longer life, number one, number one and

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<v Speaker 3>yet not to be a bummer, but as a society

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<v Speaker 3>we have never been more siloed off and isolated. And

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<v Speaker 3>apparently while our collective mental health has been fraying for

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<v Speaker 3>a while, it got so much worse in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's doctor Keltner, professor of psychology and the host of

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<v Speaker 3>the podcast The Science of Happiness.

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<v Speaker 6>COVID and the pandemic and the lockdown and hours on

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<v Speaker 6>screens in zoom and not seeing somebody's physical body and

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<v Speaker 6>making eye contact and touch and so forth, has I

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<v Speaker 6>think the most arming effects that it has had in

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<v Speaker 6>addition to like stunting academic growth and young kids, which

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<v Speaker 6>is now well documented, is it has stunted our emotional

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<v Speaker 6>connections with others. Right, and this is just the very

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<v Speaker 6>fabric of our social lives is to laugh with each other,

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<v Speaker 6>and cry with each other, and touch each other, hug

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<v Speaker 6>each other, high five each other.

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<v Speaker 1>News flash, screens are bad for you now. Normally, Jess,

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta tell you something. I am terrified of teens.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh me too.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like.

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<v Speaker 3>Them, especially on Halloween.

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<v Speaker 1>But in this case I feel bad for them because

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<v Speaker 1>the increase in screen time for everyone seems to have

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<v Speaker 1>affected teens the worst. Common Sense Media did a study

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<v Speaker 1>with the University of Michigan in twenty twenty three which

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<v Speaker 1>found that on a typical day, half of US teens

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<v Speaker 1>receive almost two hundred and fifty notifications on their phones,

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<v Speaker 1>about a quarter of them during the school day.

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<v Speaker 3>That's about as many texts as I said my husband today. Sadly,

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<v Speaker 3>many of them remain unread.

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<v Speaker 1>Just text me, Jess. You know I'll hit you right back,

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<v Speaker 1>unless I'm disassociating in the bargain isle of a TJ

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<v Speaker 1>Max looking for oversized undies.

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<v Speaker 3>You can never have too many. But this is an

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<v Speaker 3>incredibly serious problem for young people. According to The Wall

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<v Speaker 3>Street Journal, some colleges are actually teaching classes on small

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<v Speaker 3>talk because young adults coming out of the pandemic have

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<v Speaker 3>literally forgotten how to strike up a conversation. Strange case,

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<v Speaker 3>you and I haven't had any incoming requests to teach

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<v Speaker 3>any of those courses.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe that's because I spent most of my time at

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<v Speaker 1>NYU's Tiss School of the Arts flopping around on the floor,

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<v Speaker 1>sucking my thumb and pretending to be a piece of seaweed.

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<v Speaker 3>You paid one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't you talk about not getting a return on your investment.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not just young people who are feeling the effects

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<v Speaker 3>of this disconnection. Studies show that.

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<v Speaker 1>You love saying. Studies show don't you?

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<v Speaker 3>I really do?

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<v Speaker 1>And I notice you never really follow it up with

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<v Speaker 1>what studies and where which I respect to continue.

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<v Speaker 3>Studies show that in twenty twenty three, one in three

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<v Speaker 3>adults age fifty to eighty reported feeling isolated from others,

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<v Speaker 3>which contributed to them experiencing fair to poor health. The

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<v Speaker 3>US Surgeon General has warned against what he calls an

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<v Speaker 3>epidemic of loneliness.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not just screens that are to blame our boss.

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<v Speaker 1>If anyone can believe it is Malcolm Gladwell, journalist and

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<v Speaker 1>author of many New York Times bestsellers, including a book

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<v Speaker 1>called Talking to Strangers. He spoke to us about the

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<v Speaker 1>hurdles society is up against because of our lack of connection,

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<v Speaker 1>and how as a culture we've shifted from a front

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<v Speaker 1>porch to a backyard culture where we frantically build hedges

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure we will never come into contact with a

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<v Speaker 1>neighbor as long as we both shall live. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>when I was little, just people used to do something

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely horrifying and pop by, Yes, just pop on over unannounced,

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<v Speaker 1>and this felt welcome and fun. But today you'd be

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<v Speaker 1>locked up for that.

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<v Speaker 3>Growing up in New Jersey, my family used to eat

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<v Speaker 3>dinner on our front porch and chat with every stranger

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<v Speaker 3>who's strolled by. We are still close those friends, with

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<v Speaker 3>all of our neighbors past and present, but these days

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<v Speaker 3>we build up these hedges and hope to never get

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<v Speaker 3>even so much as a glimpse of another person, and

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<v Speaker 3>God forbids someone should knock on the door. Whenever my

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<v Speaker 3>daughter and I hear a sudden knock, we both freeze

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<v Speaker 3>and pray the offender will just go away, unless, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>it's an Amazon driver, and then I want all the

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<v Speaker 3>things I bought to fill the agonizing void of loneliness.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a true story. My friend, the comedy writer

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<v Speaker 1>Gary Jeannetti, once moved after his husband said hello to

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<v Speaker 1>a neighbor one high and he was gone. That's how

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<v Speaker 1>much he dreaded interacting with them. They moved.

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<v Speaker 3>Our world seems to be moving at the speed of light.

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<v Speaker 3>We're overwhelmed. We're overscheduled and overworked, which only makes my

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<v Speaker 3>adhd worse. Wait, what were we talking about, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 3>Oh right, we're moving too quickly. The idea of stopping

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<v Speaker 3>to chat with another person often feels inconceivable with all

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<v Speaker 3>we have on our plates. People feel like they don't

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<v Speaker 3>have time for the tiny pleasantries we also desperately need.

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<v Speaker 1>Malcolm also talked about another more surprising culprit for the

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<v Speaker 1>death of small talk.

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<v Speaker 2>The biggest blow to.

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<v Speaker 7>Small talk of our generation was the decline of smoking.

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<v Speaker 7>For two hundred years, casual conversation was organized around cigarettes,

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<v Speaker 7>and cigarettes are perfect for this. They are an opportunity

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<v Speaker 7>to go up to someone, you can share a cigarette,

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<v Speaker 7>you can like this cigarette and somebody to do with

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<v Speaker 7>your hands, which you need to do. But more than that,

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<v Speaker 7>it allows for pauses. Right, if I want to pause,

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<v Speaker 7>I stop and I take a puff of my cigarette, right,

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<v Speaker 7>and your mouth is occupied. You can't talk right, and

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<v Speaker 7>the other person is not expecting you to talk because

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<v Speaker 7>no one talks when this winter pulling on a cigarette.

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<v Speaker 7>So it's perfect you get so you can build in.

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<v Speaker 7>You can build your conversation around this kind of rock and.

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<v Speaker 1>It kind of lowers anxiety a little too, when you're

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<v Speaker 1>pulling in and you can face outward and not have

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<v Speaker 1>to be like staring at a top.

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<v Speaker 3>We lost the problem and it's sexy, and it's sexy.

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<v Speaker 7>And it's sexy. The clateral damage from the ending of

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<v Speaker 7>smoking is a is really quite considerable. I felt a

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<v Speaker 7>lot about this. Actually, yeah, we gained something immeasurable, which

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<v Speaker 7>was seven more years of life on average, but we

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<v Speaker 7>did lose all not as much as we gained, but still, like,

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<v Speaker 7>it's no use pretending this was a cost free exercise

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<v Speaker 7>in public health advancement.

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<v Speaker 3>So Malcolm saying the very thing that was killing us

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<v Speaker 3>was also keeping us alive. Yep, And now I want

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<v Speaker 3>a cigarette, you guys, can't smoke in here, Nathan.

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<v Speaker 1>We know I was joking, Nathan, so ess we now

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<v Speaker 1>know that small talk may be the key to keeping

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<v Speaker 1>us alive. So why aren't people doing it?

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<v Speaker 3>The answer is simple, people hate it.