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Speaker 1: Don't own assets, then you're being left behind because your

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Speaker 1: wages are not keeping up. You are falling behind and

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Speaker 1: even being able to buy those assets. That's the greatest

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Speaker 1: challenge for this next generation.

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Speaker 2: But the reality is if you're not making at least

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Speaker 2: ten percent, you're actually falling behind, not even keeping even.

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Speaker 1: And that's the frustration that people are starting to feel it.

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Speaker 1: The wages are going up, they're like, God, I got

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Speaker 1: a five percent raise, but I still can't afford the

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Speaker 1: things I used to be able to afford. Why, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's because those numbers are manipulated. It's evil, it's demeaning.

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Speaker 1: And the young kids in their mid thirties, they're struggling

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Speaker 1: to even buy a house because it takes so much

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Speaker 1: more income now to buy a house than it used to.

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Speaker 1: And the election cycles bring a lot of uncertainty. And

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Speaker 1: once you get certainty in the market, when you had

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Speaker 1: certainty that Trump was going to be elected and that

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Speaker 1: he is elected, well bitcoin ripped. Why is that? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a few reasons.

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Speaker 2: What's the one thing happening right now that most people

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Speaker 2: don't understand but absolutely should if they want to survive financially.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people in just the normal world, don't

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Speaker 1: understand how the money is being debased right underneath them,

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Speaker 1: the numbers of inflation being manipulated, and now they're really

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Speaker 1: just being stolen from every day. They're being told that

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Speaker 1: if you buy a bond, if you buy t bills

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Speaker 1: or treasuries, then you can keep up with it.

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Speaker 2: It's not true, all right, James. You spent the year

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Speaker 2: analyzing global markets, and like, let's be honest, right, the

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Speaker 2: financial system is barely hanging by a thread. So what's

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Speaker 2: the one thing happening right now that most people don't

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Speaker 2: understand but absolutely should if they want to survive financially.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people in just the normal world don't

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Speaker 1: understand how the money is being debased right underneath them.

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Speaker 1: They just assume that inflation is a natural thing, and

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Speaker 1: they don't see just how badly it's being manipulated, the

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Speaker 1: numbers of inflation being manipulated, and now they're really just

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Speaker 1: being stolen from every day. So the system forces people

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Speaker 1: to take risk to keep up with that in debasement,

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Speaker 1: so they have to buy risk ads. So I have

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Speaker 1: to invest in real estate. They have to invest in things,

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Speaker 1: you know, stocks and gold and whatnot. In order to

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Speaker 1: try to keep up with that inflation. They're being told

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Speaker 1: that if you buy a bond, if you buy t

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Speaker 1: bills or treasuries, then you can keep up with it.

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Speaker 1: It's not true. So the money supply is expanding, it's

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Speaker 1: to rate that they can't keep up, and they're getting

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Speaker 1: a negative return on whatever dollars they've even invested there,

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Speaker 1: so they go further out. And then some people are

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Speaker 1: realizing that, so they go further out on the risk

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Speaker 1: curve in order to try to catch up, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of times it just doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: So would you say they don't understand mechanically what's happening.

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Speaker 2: So I think most people know they should probably be investing,

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Speaker 2: but that's because they think they want their money to

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Speaker 2: grow so they have more money in the future. But

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Speaker 2: maybe they don't realize as much that it's not just

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Speaker 2: you want your money grow so you have more in

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Speaker 2: the future, but you actually have to out grow the

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Speaker 2: rate of what you're losing.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, Yeah, exactly, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you're just trying to pick a horse that

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Speaker 1: will keep up with with all the prices around us.

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I just went down the street.

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Speaker 1: Great place here, San Clement. They love it here. But

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Speaker 1: to get a taco and a breakfast taco is like

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Speaker 1: it is like nine dollars and eighty cents for a taco.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just insane. Right, So yeah, the reality

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Speaker 1: is that people feel it. They feel like the prices

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Speaker 1: are going up. But what they don't and they and

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Speaker 1: they think they buy something and it's rising in value.

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Speaker 1: What is actually happening, and this is what's misunderstood, is

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Speaker 1: that it's just it's holding its value better than what

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Speaker 1: the underlying currency that it's being priced in. So if

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Speaker 1: you get a piece of real estate that rises in

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Speaker 1: value faster than the base the debasement of the dollar,

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Speaker 1: the dollar meaning inflation. So if it rises fast an

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Speaker 1: inflation call inflation today three and a half percent. And

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Speaker 1: if your beach front property is rising at ten percent,

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Speaker 1: well you've made a good call. You bought the right horse.

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Speaker 1: It's highly desirable. There's not you know, there's only so

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Speaker 1: many of them, so it's limited in supply being beach

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Speaker 1: front property. All right, good call, you know. But if

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Speaker 1: you bought a stock that was a high flyer and

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Speaker 1: you thought, oh, this is going to keep going up

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Speaker 1: and it crashes. That's a bad call. And now you've

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Speaker 1: taken that risk to try to outpace that inflation, and

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Speaker 1: you've missed it, and now you're starting at a place

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Speaker 1: that's even further behind.

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Speaker 2: You said that inflation's three percent, that's a government reported

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Speaker 2: number of CPI. I don't think that's the real inflation number.

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Speaker 2: The number we have to beat. Is that the number

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Speaker 2: we need to beat?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the number of the people are told they

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Speaker 1: need to bet. But they're told two things. They're told

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Speaker 1: that inflation is natural and you need it for the

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Speaker 1: economy to grow. It's not true. It's uh. And you

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Speaker 1: and I talk about this quite a bit about how

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Speaker 1: technology should actually make your life better with cheaper things.

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Speaker 1: You know, the more the technology advances, the cheaper things

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Speaker 1: should become, right, But it doesn't happen that way. Why

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Speaker 1: is that because they manipulate the money supply. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about that three percent. Well, that three three and

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Speaker 1: a half percent that we're talking about that is way

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Speaker 1: above the two percent inflationary that is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: the target. Well, that's what they've been reporting, but we

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Speaker 1: well know that the actual inflationary is much more closely

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Speaker 1: tied to the expansion of the money supply. And then

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Speaker 1: if you look back to nineteen seventy one, when we

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Speaker 1: got off the gold standard, money has been expanding by

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Speaker 1: over seven percent. There are slightly different measures, but between

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Speaker 1: six point nine seven point one percent since nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: one annually, right.

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Speaker 2: And even faster in a shorter time period, so ten

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Speaker 2: ten percent since twenty nineteen. So do you think back

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Speaker 2: to sort of what you said. What they don't understand

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Speaker 2: what's happening right now, but they should if they want

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Speaker 2: to survive. Is also that the number you need to

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Speaker 2: beat is a lot higher than you think it is.

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Speaker 2: You've been told it's three percent. Your financial advisor's telling

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Speaker 2: you you're making four or five percent, you're doing pretty good.

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Speaker 2: But the reality is if you're not making at least

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Speaker 2: ten percent, you're actually falling behind, not even keeping even exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's the frustration that people are starting to feel.

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Speaker 2: It.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're feeling that frustration. They don't understand. They see that,

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Speaker 1: you know, their wages are going up, They're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I got a five percent raise, but I still can't

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Speaker 1: afford the things that used to be able to afford. Why, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's because those numbers are manipulated. Yeah, and it's because

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Speaker 1: certain things are moved in and out of baskets of

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Speaker 1: the CPI basket to make those numbers look a certain way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it can get political and

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Speaker 1: all that, but the reality is, and insurance costs are

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Speaker 1: going up or auto repair.

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Speaker 2: Or supposedly the CPI number that came out the other

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Speaker 2: day showed the insurance was dropping. I haven't seen that.

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Speaker 1: I've seen that. Yeah, yeah, so and that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: And so people are frustrated. And this all goes into that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the propensity for people to take on

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Speaker 1: more and more risk to try to keep up. And

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, it's a you know, it's evil,

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Speaker 1: it's it's demeaning. You're working so hard, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: keep up, You're you're getting your raises and you're falling

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Speaker 1: behind and you can't you can't afford things that you

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Speaker 1: used to be able to afford. And the young kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, the kids who are just getting out of

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Speaker 1: college twenty thirty and in their in their mid thirties,

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Speaker 1: they're struggling to even buy a house because it takes

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Speaker 1: so much more income now to buy a house than

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Speaker 1: it used to, and and that all is, this has

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Speaker 1: all been feeding into that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know you talk a lot about what

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Speaker 2: feeds into that and debt and you know, the macro

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Speaker 2: cycle and things like that. So how bad does this

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Speaker 2: actually get and then what happens to the people who

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Speaker 2: don't shift their investment strategy and time?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it just continues the way it

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Speaker 1: is for a while. This can it's just perpetual high

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Speaker 1: inflation for a long period of time. You know, we

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Speaker 1: were seeing now some really uh, in my opinion, good things,

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Speaker 1: excellent things are going on in DC now where you've

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Speaker 1: got the DOGE Commission, Department of Government Efficiency with Elon

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Speaker 1: and UH and Vivac. But they're cutting expenses left and right.

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Speaker 1: They're they're finding just in insane expenses that they're they're

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Speaker 1: cutting out. That's good and that will that will help.

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Speaker 2: And I think so far they're finding them.

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Speaker 1: They're finding them.

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Speaker 2: We'll see if they cut them out.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, And there's gonna there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a lot of fighting on that. But the reality is

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Speaker 1: the math is so bad that it doesn't really matter

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Speaker 1: that the dead is going to keep expanding. It's we're

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Speaker 1: going to continue to operate in deficits and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to continue to borrow money, which is inflationary,

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Speaker 1: and that feeds into this whole, you know cycle. So

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Speaker 1: your question is how bad does it get? Well, it

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Speaker 1: can get pretty bad. It can get We can if

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Speaker 1: you look at the inflation rate over the over the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies into the eighties, you saw inflation went up,

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Speaker 1: it came down, it kind of stabilized, and then it

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Speaker 1: went up again, had the other spike, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of another humping the camel's back, and we're following that

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Speaker 1: trajectory almost to the t in this same cycle where

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Speaker 1: the Fed raised they pumped a bunch of money and

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Speaker 1: they realized they made a policy mistake there and so

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Speaker 1: they raised rates and so inflation ran. It's come all

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Speaker 1: the way back down. But we have such massive deficit

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Speaker 1: spending coming out of DC, you know that we have

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Speaker 1: fiscally driven inflation, you know, and that's just continuing and

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of picking up again. So it could

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Speaker 1: get really bad here, meaning that we hit ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 1: even twenty percent inflation for a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: it's possible. Do I expect that, No, but I do

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Speaker 1: expect us to just continue to have this high perpetual inflation,

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Speaker 1: whether it's five, five, whatever the number they're they're measuring

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Speaker 1: and communicating. The reality is it's probably closer to seven

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Speaker 1: to twelve percent. So yeah, it's it. It's it just

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Speaker 1: means that over that period of time. Though. This is

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Speaker 1: another thing that people don't realize is that seven percent

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Speaker 1: annual inflation compounded over years will eat into your uh,

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Speaker 1: eat into your earnings and your discripce income. You know,

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Speaker 1: it can eat into a forty fifty, sixty, seventy percent

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Speaker 1: in a decade. So that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where you're buying fifty percent less goods and services

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Speaker 2: in a decade from now because because of the way

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Speaker 2: it compounds like that. At the same time, I mean,

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Speaker 2: all of that deficit spending, all that money printing, all

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Speaker 2: that debt, we're also seeing like the largest gap in

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Speaker 2: income and equality we've ever seen. So then it does

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Speaker 2: seem like some people are getting rich and some people

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Speaker 2: are getting poorer from this. So I mean, looking at

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Speaker 2: charts that show this wealth inequality gap growing faster and

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Speaker 2: faster and faster bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean,

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Speaker 2: is this the big wealth transfer that's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the people who own assets. You know, you

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Speaker 1: hear about the boomers have made out so well. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're living large, They're living these huge homes, They're worth

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Speaker 1: so much money. And the reality is, you know, the

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Speaker 1: older demograph is typically the demographic that owns assets, and

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Speaker 1: the one to own assets have done well because you've

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Speaker 1: had a massive amount of asset inflation as we continue

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Speaker 1: to print money. And so that's it. That's the crux

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Speaker 1: right there. If you don't own assets, then you're being

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Speaker 1: left behind because your wages are not keeping up and

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Speaker 1: so you are falling behind and even being able to

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Speaker 1: buy those assets. And so that's the greatest challenge for

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Speaker 1: this next generation is how do you get some assets

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Speaker 1: that you can hold for a long period of time

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Speaker 1: that will outpace that expansion the money supply, Which leads

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Speaker 1: us exactly to why we do what we do and

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Speaker 1: why we're so focused on bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: So if you look at like that real rate of

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Speaker 2: monetary debasement as being inflation ten percent, twelve fourteen percent,

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Speaker 2: and then you look at all the different asset classes.

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Speaker 2: So then you go, Okay, what asset classes do I

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Speaker 2: have to invest in that could beat that. I just

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Speaker 2: saw this video the other day of Radi Alio talking about, well,

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Speaker 2: the way that you want to build wealth is you

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Speaker 2: want to invest across fifteen different asset classes. There's just

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Speaker 2: a couple of days ago, so you're still pushing this

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Speaker 2: all weather portfolio. Problem is that all other portfolio doesn't

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Speaker 2: make any money if they've had over seventy billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in redemptions in the last several years, because it just

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Speaker 2: doesn't make any money. And I think it goes back

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Speaker 2: to why would I invest through fifteen different assets if

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Speaker 2: none of those assets are keeping up with or beating

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Speaker 2: the rate of monetary debasement. And so when you look

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Speaker 2: at it from that type of a lens, which is

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Speaker 2: sort of how I look from it, then you see

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Speaker 2: that the only things that have beat it are tech

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Speaker 2: stocks in the NASDAC and bitcoin and that's it. So

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Speaker 2: what we see is that different assets soak up that

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Speaker 2: extra licuity at different rates, and I think that's what

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Speaker 2: separates the winners and loser. And it seems like it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like factually in history, bitcoin has soaked that

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Speaker 2: up at the fastest rate. So why is that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, obviously to you and me, bitcoin

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Speaker 1: is it sounds money. It's hard money. It's something that

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Speaker 1: cannot be debased. There's only going to be twenty one

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Speaker 1: million bitcoin ever minted, ever created, and so it can't

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Speaker 1: be manipulated like fiat money supplies and even like gold.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've seen the madness out in London this

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Speaker 1: last week, last few weeks and what's happening there. And

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Speaker 1: this is kind of an important thing because people think, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I buy gold, then I'm protected. But gold, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if gold was not so manipulated, it would be at

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Speaker 1: a much higher price. It would be you know, in

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Speaker 1: the tens of thousands. It's not wouldn't be just hovering

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Speaker 1: around three. And so the issue there is that you

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Speaker 1: have sovereigns buying gold. You have some worries about Trump

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Speaker 1: tariffs and bringing your gold back into the States and

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Speaker 1: having a sudden tariff on it. So you've got the

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Speaker 1: comics is bringing gold back into New York and into

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Speaker 1: the United States, and so you have players around the

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Speaker 1: world that are buying gold, like the bricks countries to

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Speaker 1: try to avoid having to buy US treasuries in order

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Speaker 1: to have dollars because everybody still needs dollars around the world.

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Speaker 1: But if you have gold, then you're supposedly protected. Well,

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Speaker 1: the issue in last week, in the last few weeks

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Speaker 1: out in London is that the Bank of England realized,

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Speaker 1: we don't have all the gold in our vaults. We

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Speaker 1: can't just send it out, so it's going to take

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Speaker 1: us four to eight weeks to get you your gold. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then think about that. You've got four to eight

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Speaker 1: weeks before you can get your hard asset that is

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Speaker 1: supposed supposedly hard and being held in a vault for you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's number one. Then you've got to transfer it. You've

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Speaker 1: got to transport it, which you've got to put it

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Speaker 1: on You've got to put on a truck and a

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Speaker 1: plane or a boat or something on rail to get

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Speaker 1: it to wherever you need to be. And it's got

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Speaker 1: to be protected, so you have to pay for security

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Speaker 1: for it. It's very heavy stuff and they even like

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Speaker 1: this is heavy. Bank of England was on stage and

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Speaker 1: at a press conferenceation, well, it's really heavy, so it

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Speaker 1: takes a while to move. Yeah, you know, so if

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Speaker 1: you want to move a billion dollars of gold, think

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Speaker 1: about all that would take to do that, to get

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Speaker 1: it from London to New York. Then think about something

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Speaker 1: like bitcoin, where you have verifiable addresses and it's immutable

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Speaker 1: and you know that you look at that address and

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Speaker 1: you see exactly how much bitcoin is in that and

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Speaker 1: that part of the block chain. Right, it's it's very

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Speaker 1: easily auditible. You don't have to worry that it might

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Speaker 1: be just gold plated nickel like you saw in the

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan vaults they had fifty million dollars a gold

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Speaker 1: plated nickel by accident that they didn't know about. Well that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's not going to happen. You can move it.

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Speaker 1: You can move a billion dollars a bitcoin in less

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Speaker 1: than ten minutes for a few bucks. It's I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's staggering and people are starting to catch

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Speaker 1: on to this, and it's the younger generation is very

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Speaker 1: comfortable with that digital asset. Uh you know that concept.

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Speaker 1: The older generation not so much. They love the gold

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Speaker 1: typically you know, my mom loves a bitgoing but it

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Speaker 1: but you have you have the younger generation now is

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Speaker 1: looking at things like digital assets and bitcoin is one

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Speaker 1: of those digital assets that is starting to bring people

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Speaker 1: over to that to a new a new asset class,

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Speaker 1: and it's emerging and it's growing rapidly, and that's the

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Speaker 1: that's the point.

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Speaker 2: Do you see sort of like this bifurcation happened in

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Speaker 2: the market where you mentioned that the older generation the

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Speaker 2: younger generation. I'm not sure if I see it that way,

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Speaker 2: but I do see a bifurcation happening where you see

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Speaker 2: massive demand for gold through central banks. Their demand for

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Speaker 2: gold is at all time highs the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned bricks nations China try and divest from treasuries,

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Speaker 2: things like that. So you see the governments of the

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Speaker 2: central banks sort of clamoring for the gold. But when

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Speaker 2: you look at a little bit lower down, when you

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Speaker 2: look at the institutions, even when you look at like

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Speaker 2: government sovereign wealth funds and then down to institutions in

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Speaker 2: Wall Street, it seems they're more into buying bitcoin right now.

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Speaker 2: So I don't hear I see announcements almost every day

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Speaker 2: of new public traded companies adding bitcoin to their balance sheet.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard of any that are adding gold to

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Speaker 2: their balance sheet. We hear about sovereign wealth funds. I

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Speaker 2: think just today was it Saudi Arabia or was it

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Speaker 2: Abu Dhabi? Anow say, four hundred and sixty million dollars

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Speaker 2: worth of bitcoin added, but you didn't hear about them

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Speaker 2: adding gold. So it's almost like this bifurcation where the

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Speaker 2: governments and essential banks seem to be acquiring goal at

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Speaker 2: a rapid rate, but then everyone just below that sovereign

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Speaker 2: wealth down to institutions and banks are going into bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're seeing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's fair exactly. And just going back

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Speaker 1: to what we're talking about. You know that the inflation

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Speaker 1: keep up, inflation and demographics, you know, that's one side

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Speaker 1: of it, but what you just hit on is that

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Speaker 1: it's probably the most This is the key development of

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Speaker 1: for bitcoin in In this last eighteen months, you've had

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Speaker 1: massive tailwinds for this asset class, and we can talk

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Speaker 1: through each of those, but just like you said, you

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Speaker 1: have these sovereign wealth funds, institutions, very large high net

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Speaker 1: worth individuals coming into this new asset class because they

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Speaker 1: know that this is all game. Theory now is that

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Speaker 1: I need to get some of this before the price

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Speaker 1: gets away from me, and then people look at it

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Speaker 1: and say, oh god, it's one hundred thousand dollars. It's

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Speaker 1: too late. I can't afford a bitcoin now, Whereas you

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Speaker 1: know you and I know that that's just a number.

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Speaker 1: Like the debasement's not going to stop. This is going

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Speaker 1: to continue to go up in value, meaning the dollar

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Speaker 1: is going to go down in value against it. So

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Speaker 1: they're not sensitive to price like retail is. Like you

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Speaker 1: know some of some of the smaller players are who

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Speaker 1: only have so much money, they're very sensitive to the

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Speaker 1: price of bitcoin. Whereas you have Abu Dhabi come in,

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Speaker 1: they can buy half a billion dollars of bitcoin and

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Speaker 1: it is and just hey, just go along in the market,

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Speaker 1: like I'm I'm not priced sense of don't wait for

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Speaker 1: I'm not waiting for it to get back to seventy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just participate and go along in the market. And that's

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Speaker 1: what they did. And what's interesting about that is they

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Speaker 1: bought the ETFs. Apparently from the report, they bought ETFs,

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Speaker 1: and so people would now say, wow, but that's just

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Speaker 1: paper bitcoin. It's not. The ETFs have a legal obligation

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Speaker 1: to own the underlying bitcoin. If you're a spot ETF

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Speaker 1: like ibit or like you know, FBTC or bit wise

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Speaker 1: you have to own those the corresponding amount of bitcoin

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Speaker 1: to the nav okay. So, but that is an easy

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Speaker 1: way for any player to get in. Sovereign funds, governments, institutions, endowments,

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Speaker 1: pension funds, they can just buy the ETF. Now it'ld say,

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Speaker 1: it's that that's a super highway that's been built. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so easy for them to get on. That's institutional

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Speaker 1: adoption is happening. It's happening quietly. You do see companies

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Speaker 1: coming in buying bitcoin. You do hear about companies buying

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Speaker 1: actual bitcoin on their treasuries. But this is kind of

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Speaker 1: like it's all now forming and taking shape and exactly

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Speaker 1: what you just said. It's it's becoming adopted as a

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Speaker 1: new asset class.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right before our eyes. You mentioned earlier like sort

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Speaker 2: of like the Bank of England and well the LBMA

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Speaker 2: Lendon boil Market and as well as the as the

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Speaker 2: BOE Bank of England both running out of gold. The

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Speaker 2: world's clamoring for gold, trying to get it from wherever

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Speaker 2: they can. I think the LBMA had three hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty million ounces on paper, but like four hundred ounces

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Speaker 2: of claims against that but only thirty available or something

402
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Speaker 2: like that. It's crazy. But what we're seeing now everyone's

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Speaker 2: climbing for gold. We're starting to see that a lot

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Speaker 2: of these ETFs have leased out their gold right So

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Speaker 2: that's like that rehypothecation. So when you go when you

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Speaker 2: talk about like the bitcoin fund, they're legally required to

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Speaker 2: buy it, but are they are they allowed to? Are

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Speaker 2: they are they restricted from leasing it out and rehypothecating

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Speaker 2: it like we see in the gold market.

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Speaker 1: They're not supposed to be rehypothicating the bitcoin so gold, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they they have ways to do that, clearly,

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Speaker 1: And that has been the problem. That's been the fear

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Speaker 1: of people who own these ETFs. Do they actually have

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Speaker 1: the gold and the vaults like they say they do?

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Speaker 1: And that's and it's hard to audit that. But again,

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Speaker 1: with bitcoin, you can audit in minutes just put you know,

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Speaker 1: you can just have your spreadsheets and audit it. It's

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Speaker 1: not it won't be difficult.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, now most people think that, well I don't

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Speaker 2: know about most people. I get asked the question all

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Speaker 2: the time, like how do you invest in the bitcoin?

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Speaker 2: It's like you can just buy it and like you

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Speaker 2: just hold it, right, And so I think maybe most

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Speaker 2: people that then think about that way would go, well,

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Speaker 2: I guess I just buy it and I hold it.

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Speaker 2: But like you worked in the big hedge funds, you

427
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Speaker 2: worked with the institutional capital allocators. Like what's the difference

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Speaker 2: between how retail thinks about bitcoin and like institutional allocators

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Speaker 2: and like headd hedge funds would approach bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. You know, it depends on the

431
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: type of hedge fund. And so if you're if you're

432
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: an active hedge fund, like really actively managing your your

433
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: capital and you're trading a lot, then you'll be trading

434
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin and you'll be going along, you'll be going short.

435
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: You have all kinds of strategies around it, put call strategies.

436
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: You know, you might be doing derivatives with it. You

437
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: might be doing hedge trades against or pairs trades with

438
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: other currencies. You know, there's all kinds of stuff the

439
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: hedge funds will do with the base currency, with the

440
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: base asset. That's one type. Another type is you know

441
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: you'll be buying companies that are either involved with or

442
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: are investing in bitcoin themselves. You know, things like strategy

443
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: former micro strategy. Yeah, uh, you know, met a planet

444
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: and uh and other ones. Bitcoin minors obviously, so that's

445
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: another strategy. Uh. And then you've got you know, so

446
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: that's kind of like the hedge fund world, the and

447
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: non non endowment or pension funds, they would just be

448
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: buying bitcoin. Like, they're not going to be doing all

449
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: this stuff. They might buy some of these stocks, but

450
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: probably through through some other agent, through a hedge fund

451
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: or through another money manager probably. But then on the

452
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: other side, so it's got kind of like you know,

453
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: just the regular hedge fund side, you've got your you

454
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: get your VC side, which is the venture capitalist are

455
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: buying super super early stage, highly speculative, very young companies

456
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,479
Speaker 1: not typically just not revenue generating and so u. But

457
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: they have a they have a basket or a portfolio

458
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: these investments, and they hope that one or two of

459
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: them become unicorns to make the returns for the whole portfolio,

460
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: because the reality is that most of those companies don't

461
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: really make it after ten or fifteen years. That's just

462
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: the reality of VC investing. On the other side of

463
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: the spectrum, you've got companies like investment companies or hedge

464
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: funds that will invest in revenue generating companies that are

465
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: a little bit there longer in the tooth that are

466
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: revenue generating. They're up and running and have this window

467
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: of five or ten years with a really grow rapidly

468
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: along with Bitcoin, and that's kind of a in my mind,

469
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: that's kind of a sweet spot of this industry right now.

470
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: A small business owner, are you buried in all types

471
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: of work keeping you from the real thing that makes

472
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: you money. Well, that's where just Works comes in. They're

473
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,520
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474
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475
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476
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477
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: scale international operations without the workload, and for every how.

478
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: Do I do it?

479
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: Question? You can reach out to their expert staff from

480
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,879
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481
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: all kinds of small businesses with real human support. So

482
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: visit justworks dot com slash podcast to join the thousands

483
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: of small businesses that trust Just Works to take care

484
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: of payroll, benefits, compliance and more. Again, that's Justworks dot

485
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: com slash podcasts. So the way that I kind of

486
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: think about that is like, so you have this whole stack,

487
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: as you're sort of describing it to it, so you

488
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: can buy the base asset, you can buy the bitcoin,

489
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 2: and then there's other ways to play companies that are

490
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: exposed to bitcoin building on around bitcoin things like that.

491
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: So if you think about like oil is a commodity,

492
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: Oil as an asset maybe the last fifty years, so

493
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: just fortiflation, it hasn't really moved anywhere sixty eighty bucks

494
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: a barrel or something like that. But then you have

495
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: the oil industry. It's like the eighth artists industry in

496
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: the world, worth about five trillion dollars four point seven.

497
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: I think, so you sort of are seeing the same thing. Then,

498
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: so you st bitcoin the asset, the commodity, but now

499
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: you have this industry being built around bitcoin. And then

500
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: I think what you're saying is just to kind of

501
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: reiterate to the audience, is that you have, just like

502
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: traditional tech, you have like early early stage like breaking

503
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: you know, breaking ground, and that would typically be like

504
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: friends and family, angel rounds, super high risk, high reward,

505
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: and then you go up the stack to higher level

506
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 2: companies that are further along, they need bigger amounts of money,

507
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: They maybe don't have those potential rewards, but also they

508
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: don't have that risk as well because they found market

509
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: fit and they're producing profits. So you're basically seeing that

510
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 2: exact same scenario tech now coming over to the sort

511
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: of this biccoin ecosystem or maybe bcoin. The bitcoin companies

512
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: are moving over to the tech ecosystem.

513
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's and that's exactly what we're seeing. And

514
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: so it's I mean, the the hard part about investing

515
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: in this in this space is, like you just said,

516
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: people are like, why do not I just buy bitcoin?

517
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: Why not just buy bitcoin to hold it? And that

518
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: would be you know, we I think people should. That's

519
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: your that's your first core investment. But then you're trying

520
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: to find those companies that are well managed, that are

521
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: that are disciplined, and are actually uh that that give

522
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: you a better risk reward, right, So that risk reward

523
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: is what you just said. Is it very very very

524
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: early stage where it's a super high reward but a

525
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: super high risk, or is it kind of in the

526
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: middle where it's it's a high reward but a lower risk,

527
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: or is it a little bit further along, where it's

528
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: it's a solid reward but a much lower risk. So

529
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: that risk reward here could be much better than over here,

530
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, especially when you put it into an entire portfolio.

531
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: Let's talk about breaking down that risk and reward. I've

532
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: done venture deals for a decade, so like again, right,

533
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: like I could decide which stage I wanted to invest

534
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: into based off of where I wanted that risk reward

535
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: profile to be. But like typically if I was thinking

536
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 2: of Uber, for example, I would say, well, you know,

537
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: how'd you come up with this valuation. Well, we're going

538
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 2: to disrupt taxis, we're going to disrupt tax limos, we're

539
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: going to disrupt vans, we're going to disrupt write all

540
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: these things, and combined the TAM the total adjustable market

541
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: is you know, one hundred million or whatever billion. If

542
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: we capture five percent of each of those markets, we'll

543
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: have that valuation. Right, So there's like a math equation

544
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: I can sort of see, well, I think it's realistic

545
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: that it could take a little bit from each of

546
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: those industries could disrupt that. Okay, you know, yeah, we

547
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: can get to one hundred hundred million or whatever. That

548
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: valuation is. But when I think about it from like,

549
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: it's easy to sort of understand disruptive tech in a

550
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: world that we live in today, But when you have

551
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: something like bitcoin that's like building a world that we

552
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: don't even know what that world looks like, it's really

553
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: hard to it's really hard to imagine this new world

554
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: when we're living in this world that we have now.

555
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: So then we have these new early stage bitcoin companies

556
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: that are going to go disrupt markets, But how do

557
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: we measure the future value if there's not a market

558
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: they're disrupting today? So how do we know if it's

559
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: going to be five million, ten million, twenty million, fifty million,

560
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: hundred million.

561
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: You just hit on exactly why we are extraordinarily picky

562
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: in my fund, the Bigcoin Opportunity Fund, an opportunity fund

563
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: where you're a GP, and also we're super super choosy

564
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: and discipline on what we invest in early stage and

565
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: that's because it's very difficult to put evaluation on something

566
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: like that, and often the valuations are just pulled out

567
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: of thin air. You know exactly what you just said, Well,

568
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: the addressabile market is.

569
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: This or the reality they even know what the undressful

570
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: market is because there's no market, they're disrupting.

571
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: Markets to disrupt exactly. So the reality is, you know

572
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: you're you're typically then mostly putting your You're mostly putting

573
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: your trust and your your risk capital on the what

574
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: you believe to be the best operator with the best idea.

575
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: So you so you're trying to lower execution risk. But

576
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: the reality is an execution risk is massive when you're

577
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: in an early stage. I mean, you've started companies, you

578
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: know what it's like. It's it's so easy to get

579
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: tripped up in a plethora of different ways.

580
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: So, but that's the operational risk of if I can

581
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: achieve what I say I'm gonna achieve. But at least

582
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: I'm able to quantify if you even if you do

583
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: overcome the operational risk, and you do achieve it, then

584
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: how much would it be worth. So if you do

585
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: get five percent from taxis okay, I could see how

586
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: you're worth that much if you can get over the

587
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: operational risk hazard. But in a case where there's no

588
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: market that I'm disrupting, so I have the risk of

589
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: the operational risk, But then how do I know even

590
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: how much value we might have?

591
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: Right?

592
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: So for example, you know, in the VC space and bitcoin,

593
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: you might see a bunch of wallets, a whole bunch

594
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: of wallets. We're going to integrate lightning into it or whatever, right,

595
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: but like what market is that really disrupting? I mean,

596
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: how much value could that really create, you know, for example?

597
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 2: And that might be a too simple of a version,

598
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, I just don't understand these values because like,

599
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: as an investor, like we're trying to discount the future exactly,

600
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: but you don't know what to discount, right, I don't

601
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: know it's a discount.

602
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: And that's that's what makes it so difficult.

603
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: Do you think It's also like like where we're at

604
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: in the cycle as well, right where it's like I

605
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: think both of us obviously believe in that future, but

606
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: is it going to come in two years or five

607
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: years or ten years or fifteen years is a question.

608
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: And I think you want to kind of find the

609
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: answer to that out first because then it helps you

610
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: decide at which level you want to invest into.

611
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a that's and that's the point is

612
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: that the duration of those investments might not match the fund, right,

613
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: So the duration of a super early stage investment a

614
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: company that's just starting out with an idea on an

615
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: appkin that might be a fifteen year runway on a

616
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: ten year fund, So that doesn't really work. That math

617
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: doesn't work right. So that's a problem that it's a

618
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: mismatch of duration. So that is one of the advantages

619
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: of you know, of investing in companies that you know

620
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: what they're doing, like they have revenue generation that you

621
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: can see that you've got a little bit clearer vision

622
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: of that runway in a five or ten year window,

623
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, or even three to five year window in

624
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: some of them. So that's a it's just a different

625
00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: way of investing for sure.

626
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: So with these you know, typical VC funds that are

627
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: investing at the early stages, the real early stages, and

628
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: they have a ten year timeframe you mentioned sort of

629
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 2: like this mismatch if you will, or maybe these companies

630
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: aren't going to be profitable for fifteen years, but the

631
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: funds only ten years. I'm curious in that model, not

632
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 2: that you run that, but I know you've been in

633
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: this space for a long time. In that model, how

634
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 2: are they showing like profitability and growth to attract new

635
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: capital through those stages? If those businesses don't really have

636
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: like a liquidity event.

637
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: Right, Well, this is uh, it's difficult, it's challenging. So

638
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: what they what typical vcs will do is you know,

639
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: you'll have your your angel funding or a Series A,

640
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: and then it'll be at one valuation. So let's say

641
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: that you you wanted you bought ten percent of a

642
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: company that you valued at ten million dollars. Then you

643
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: do a Series B and the companies further down the

644
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: road and they say, wow, we've created this value. We're

645
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: worth more money now because of the things that you like,

646
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: we've just been talking about that you know, now we

647
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: can do this, or we've got more We've got ip

648
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: that might be valuable or something. So now we think

649
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: we're worth twenty million dollars. So for that same ten

650
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: percent position of Series B, now you've got to pay

651
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: two million dollars. Okay, So but Series A has now

652
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: had one hundred percent markup to twenty million dollars. I'm

653
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: using very simple you know ath here that is not

654
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: exactly like it, but this is close enough that now

655
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: you've had one hundred percent markup. So now your first

656
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: position is up one one hundred percent. And so However,

657
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: if it's fifty percent of your portfolio, and now your

658
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: portfolio is up fifty percent, right, Or if it's twenty

659
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: five percent, your portfolio, portfolio is up twenty five percent.

660
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: So that's kind of that's how they're they're showing returns

661
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: along with their IRRs along the way, and that's until

662
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: you have an actual exit, which may or may not

663
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: happen for a while.

664
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose on one side, it shows that

665
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 2: there's demand, so like maybe someone will pay that price

666
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 2: if they're paying that number today, but not if I'm

667
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: leading that round right, exactly right, because it shows I'm

668
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: paying more than I paid before, which is typically done

669
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: in the VC space anyway, right, I mean they typically

670
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: invests through multiple tranches.

671
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they'll go invest in the same company over

672
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: a period of years and yeah, use fund one, fund two,

673
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: fund three, fund four to do a series B.

674
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But I guess it's just important for investors

675
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: looking at that to sort of understand the mechanics of

676
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: that it's typically done. So it's not like it's like

677
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: a shady thing, but it's just understanding, like it's not

678
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: like real revenues and real profits. It's more of just

679
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: like sort of like a back of the napkin or

680
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: inside math type of situation.

681
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's why, I mean, I sleep well

682
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: at night knowing that if I liquidate my portfolio, if

683
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: I liquidate the Bitcoin Opportunity Fund right now, I give

684
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: back the investors exactly what's on their investment statement, because

685
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: it's it's marketable securities plus some of those privates that

686
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: are marked at cost.

687
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 2: So where do you think some of the biggest asymmetric

688
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 2: bets And maybe that's even the wrong word just because

689
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: that just thinks fully on reward and not enough on

690
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: the risk. But where we're at in the cycle and

691
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: the maturity and sort of as you said, sort of

692
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: the timeframe of the fund, where do you think some

693
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: of the best kind of areas in the bigwin ecosystem

694
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: are sort of the best to return money over the

695
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: next five years or so, let's say.

696
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the obviously answer will be in the

697
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: public space. Miners, certain miners, not all of them. We

698
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: don't own all the miners. We own certain miners in

699
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: specifically because of their energy assets, their ability to leverage

700
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: off those assets. They have optionality with them, especially with

701
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: this really really fast growing AI space, the hyperscalers, and

702
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: so you know, the companies that control like scalable power assets,

703
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: you know they have and they have the ability to

704
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: secure those long term contracts from AI hyperscalers, the AI

705
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: companies that are going to need massive amounts of computing

706
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: power like those are very interesting to us for two reasons.

707
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: Number One, that can be high high generating company, high

708
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: revenue generating companies for years, and you could see kind

709
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: of that window and you're starting to see these contracts

710
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: come forward being pulled forward, and so that's one thing.

711
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: And the second thing is they become M and A

712
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: targets themselves. So it's kind of an event driven play

713
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: as well. And you can have a basket of those

714
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: that are event driven that could be takeout targets in

715
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: the future, likely will be takeout targets in the future

716
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: from either larger players in space, larger miners or larger

717
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: power companies or some of you know, like the data

718
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: center reats for instance, that they might want to take

719
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: them out like. So that's a really interesting space for

720
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: us on the public side. And then there's a lot

721
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: of things that are in the private side that are

722
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: bricks and mortar but have some sort of bitcoin element

723
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: to them. So they're already mature, they're already doing they're

724
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: already revenue generating their successful companies. But then now they're

725
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: adding this element of bitcoin to them that can that

726
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: they can leverage off of that base platform and do

727
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: really well from Yeah.

728
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: You know, I love to study the cycles and I

729
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: look at like these like fifty year cycles that happen,

730
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: and each one of them is it's not represented by

731
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: just one single piece of technology, but it's always a cluster.

732
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: And the reason why it's a cluster of technologies is

733
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: that together combined, the sum is greater than the parts.

734
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: Right together they're combined, they give you like these new

735
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: sets of building blocks to build things that you just

736
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 2: didn't imagine before. And so like we have like bitcoin.

737
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: I've been calling it the decentralized revolution for like four

738
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: or five years because of where I think we're at,

739
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: and I think we're starting to see that now.

740
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: Right.

741
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: So you have like bitcoin, which is a decentralized technology,

742
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: but then you have AI. So you just mentioned like

743
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: AI AI hosting, AI processing going to like bitcoin mining facilities.

744
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 2: We're also seeing a shake up in the AI market

745
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: the tech market, the NASDAC if you will. We're like,

746
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: and it's almost kind of going the same thing the

747
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: Internet did, same thing that crypto and bitcoin did as well,

748
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: where like you almost had like value accruing at these

749
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 2: like monopolistic llm. So you had open ai and Google,

750
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: Gemini and et cetera. But now all of a sudden,

751
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: you have all these open source ones. Facebook Meta launched Loamo,

752
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: which is open source, maybe just to just to sort

753
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: of blunt what opening I did now of China's dropping

754
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 2: a new one it seems like every week, and so

755
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: it's kind of pushing that down to almost more like

756
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: a decentralized level. And so I think that's kind of interesting.

757
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: But I guess the question I was gonna ask is like,

758
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: so the clusters, So now we have like AI and

759
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: bitcoin sort of working together like synergistically, and it seems

760
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: like that's going to be really valuable. We're not exactly

761
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: sure where that's going to be. I did see recently,

762
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: like these AI agents that people are buying, they're able

763
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: to get them to start transacting autonomously using bitcoin lightning crazy. Yeah, Yeah,

764
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: someone ran one where they literally had the AI agent

765
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: go research a domain name, find the domain name, and

766
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: go buy it with bitcoin lightning. The whole thing was

767
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: pretty cool. So I think about that. So one you

768
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: mentioned the data centers like being able to use bitcoin

769
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: mining and the high compute for AI being a really

770
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: big thing, but also some of these cutting edge ones

771
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: that are like just starting to pop up. I mean,

772
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: do you think that's an area that you'll be focused on.

773
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, And that's exactly what we're looking for.

774
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: We're looking for those opportunities where there's there's those two

775
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: those two technologies that are successful in and of themselves

776
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: can be merged and and create more value being you know,

777
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: together than they would set And obviously that's that's exactly

778
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: what we're looking forward those that that's kind of like

779
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: a Nirvana thing. Yeah, you know, for instance, one of

780
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: the things that we're working on for the for the

781
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: second fund, it'll be in the first fund too, but uh,

782
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: one of the things that we're working on is is

783
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: what we're calling is the first uh you know, bitcoin

784
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: leverage buyout. And so what we're doing is we're we've

785
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: been in deep due diligence with UH with a successful

786
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: and experienced operator who's had success in other businesses and

787
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: what we're working on rolling up a non cyclical industry

788
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: like an industrial industrial service business. I can't really say

789
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: too much because we're in in NDA, but uh, it's

790
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: solid cash flow, and we would leverage a business right,

791
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 1: utilize a treasury bitcoin treasury strategy and uh and then

792
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: we would be providing equity capital along the way and

793
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: UH and then obviously advise on debt structuring for the

794
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: different acquisitions and its assists in the bitcoin treasury. But

795
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, these are businesses you can buy at three

796
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: to four times multiple on their eba dah their earnings

797
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: and then turn around once it's all rolled up and

798
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: sell it for like an eight or nine or even

799
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: ten times ebadah later down the road. So that's kind

800
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: of a strategy. It's really late stage. It's like it's

801
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: private and it's late stage, but it's something where we

802
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: can leverage both our experience and exactly what you just said.

803
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: You're taking a bricks and mortar business and something that

804
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: is that's stable and cash generating and then adding that

805
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: bitcoin element to it and then you get this tremendous

806
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: valuation on the backside of it.

807
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, now let's jump into some fun stuff with the

808
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: crystal ball that neither of us have. We love this

809
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: part you mentioned earlier. You know, some people maybe thinking

810
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 2: it was too late, or maybe it's too late. You know,

811
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: bitcoin hit one hundred thousand. First of all, I would

812
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: just say to anybody just to kind of throw this out.

813
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: The first of all, you can buy a dollar worth

814
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: of bitcoin, and really you can sort of dealt with anything,

815
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: So I mean, certainly not a house. You can't buy

816
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: a dollar worth of house. I mean, I guess there

817
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,959
Speaker 2: are some crowdfunding ways you could do that and tokenized house,

818
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: but for the most part, you know, a home to

819
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: live in, you don't. But for the most part, the

820
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: key that you laid out for us in the beginning

821
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: is that you're being debased faster than you think. You

822
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: need to buy some assets to keep you ahead, and

823
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: so you should do that. And you said that the

824
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: rich are getting richer and the poor getting poor because

825
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: the rich buy assets. So everyone should just buy assets.

826
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: And I know that sounds super simple and maybe insensitive

827
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: to some people who are living paycheck to paycheck, but

828
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: put it dollar in, put five dollars in, put ten

829
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: dollars in. Build that discipline, but specifically back to the

830
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: point of view saying, you know, some people think it's

831
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: too late because they hit a hundred thousand. You know,

832
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: in my opinion, those people are living life in the

833
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: rearview mirror. I remember, you know, I started my career

834
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: in real estate. Two thousand and eight wiped me out

835
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 2: and everyone else that I was working with at the time.

836
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: And I remember like around twenty twelve was when the

837
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 2: real estate market really bottomed out, and then Florida got

838
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: hit super hard, and I remember like twenty fourteen twenty fifteen,

839
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: Florida was roaring back, and a bunch of my real

840
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: estate friends were like, oh, it's just too expensive. It's

841
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 2: too expensive. It's too expensive, because they were comparing it

842
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: with being too expensive to twenty twelve at the bottom,

843
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: not compared to the rest of the US real estate,

844
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: and not compared to the terms and all these things,

845
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 2: and it went on a tear. So when you look

846
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 2: at a one hundred thousand dollars bitcoin, that's like looking

847
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: in the rear view mirror as opposed to like, where

848
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: is it going in the future, So you know.

849
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: Right there, right go to where the puck is going.

850
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: Go to where the puck is going right, So what

851
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 2: are what's a way or a couple of ways that

852
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: you think about how you sort of measure where bitcoin's going.

853
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we talk about this a lot, you

854
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: and I have. We just pulled up the chart before

855
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: the show, taking peak at it the global assets, you know,

856
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: the total global assets. Just Myers puts us out and

857
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: that that chart and kind of it's funny. I made

858
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: the same exact chart and then he put I saw

859
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: his in Sailors presentation a couple days later. We were like,

860
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: maybe ten trillion dollars off here and there on the

861
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: on the big pieces, and but they're look almost exactly like.

862
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: So the reality is it's it's a pretty definable set

863
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: of investible assets in the world that doesn't include the derivatives.

864
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: So just if you just look at the investment assets,

865
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: it's nine hundred trillion dollars and uh, you know the

866
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: but in that Bitcoin is now two trillion. So it's

867
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: a really easy way to visualize these big blocks that

868
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: Bitcoin can start taking market share away from. So you've

869
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: got gold is about eighteen trillion. Then you've got your

870
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: money supply and your you know, your real estate over

871
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: three hundred trillion, you get your bonds three indred trillion,

872
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: you've got your stocks one hundred and here in thirty trillion.

873
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: So where does bitcoin start taking market share away from?

874
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: Meaning where does it where do people start taking their

875
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: allocations from and putting it to bitcoin instead reallocating their capital.

876
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: That's one part of it, right, really important part of

877
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: it though, is that where's the puck going. Where's that

878
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: nine hundred trillion dollars going to be in ten years?

879
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: Is it going to be nine and twenty trillion? Where's

880
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 1: it going to be closer to quadrillion? Which you thought

881
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be.

882
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: One point six quadrillion by twenty thirty.

883
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're talking about five years from now. Yeah,

884
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: it's a massive move, but that that's probably that's I mean,

885
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: I would say it's that's right in the range.

886
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: It's not that big, it's thirty or forty percent.

887
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: It's it which is money supply seven or eight percent

888
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: between now and then there? You are, right, So that's it.

889
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: So if the money, if the money supply goes up

890
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: by eight percent a year for the next five years,

891
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: where we're at where.

892
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: We at exactly that's exactly right. So, and that's so

893
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: that's pretty base case. It could go up a lot

894
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: faster than that. Yeah, the might spot could expand a

895
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: lot faster than that, especially if we have another market shock,

896
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: right like we had in twenty twenty. So if they print,

897
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, if they print fifty percent of the money again,

898
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean it'll that'll shoot up really quickly.

899
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: You better own some assets, you better own some bitcoins.

900
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: So so where's where's bitcoin going to take market share

901
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 1: away from? Well, it's obvious that it takes market share

902
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: away from gold and from stocks. Well, you've got people

903
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: who feel like it's hard money and it's it's digital

904
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: gold and two point zero, you know, and you've got

905
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: people who feel like it's just a risk asset and

906
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: they're speculating with it. So it's taking kind of market

907
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: share from both of those. So gold isn't growing as

908
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: fast as I think it would if bitcoin wasn't there, right,

909
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: And then you've got the the institutions that are suddenly

910
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: waking up and seeing that, Well, the Fed lowers interest

911
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: rates by a full percentage point over the fall, and

912
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: the ten year bond yield goes up a full percentage point.

913
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: Why is that because bond investors want to be compensated

914
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: properly for the risks they're taking and holding those bonds,

915
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: and they want to hire yield down the road because

916
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: they know that the money supply is going to be

917
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: expanded a little bit faster than people are expecting, and

918
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: because they know that the Treasury is just going to

919
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: keep dumping bonds on the market. There's gonna be massive

920
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: amounts of bonds. So that's a really easy, clear bucket

921
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: for bitcoin to start taking market share away from as well,

922
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: because institutions, and we're seeing it in the different companies

923
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: establishing a bitcoin treasury, they want bitcoin in their treasury.

924
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: Why why wouldn't you just hold ten year bonds. Why

925
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: wouldn't you just hold thirty year bonds or T bills? Well,

926
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: you know T bills have reinvestment risk once you get

927
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: paid back where the interest rate's going to be. Number one.

928
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: We saw what happened the twenty year thirty year treasury

929
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: holders during during the last cycle in twenty twenty, they

930
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: got obliterated. Yeah, had the worst bond losses in the

931
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: history of the bond market. So that's a risk, that's

932
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: duration risk. Well, if you own Bitcoin. Yeah, it's volatile,

933
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: but it's volatile.

934
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: To the upside, right, So the big difference, it's a

935
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: big difference.

936
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: So it's okay. The volatility is okay because over a

937
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: longer period of time, it's going to appreciate faster than

938
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: the dollar depreciates, basically, and that's the trust and so

939
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: it's easy to take market share from that bucket. So

940
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: you can see that the pie is growing and Bitcoin's

941
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: share of that pie is growing at the same time.

942
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I want to ask you about a recent

943
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 2: conversation you had with Michael Howell. Yeah, who was Who's

944
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe the king of global liquidity, I

945
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: don't know, prey smart guy, I'll call him that. I

946
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: don't know if he is. He's the one that has

947
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: been talking about the longest in my opinion from what

948
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 2: I've been watching, But you know, he makes a strong

949
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: k that that global equity moves in cycles, and that

950
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: it's the it moved the denominator, which then moves the nominator. Right,

951
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: So it's like the price of the S and P

952
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 2: five hundred and the price of homes and the price

953
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: of bitcoin all go up when you continue to increase

954
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 2: the denominator Inc. Increase the fee up. So he talked about,

955
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 2: like I said, these these liquidity cycles. I didn't hear

956
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 2: the conversation, but I'm just curious if you guys talked

957
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: about where you know, bitcoin has these four year cycles.

958
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is a lot of people today are

959
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: saying that the cycles are broken. We're not going to

960
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 2: the four year cycles over, It's not gonna happen anymore.

961
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: I remember Sailor's saying all your cycles were broken last cycle,

962
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: and that all the models are broken. That didn't seem

963
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 2: to stop it. People are now saying that because now

964
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: we have the ets buying, we have the sovereigns buying,

965
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 2: they're not going to be selling that you mentioned earlier.

966
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 2: They're not price sensitive, so they're buying, they're holding. They're

967
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: not like the hedge funds that will be trading around

968
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 2: it most likely away. A lot of people call it

969
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: for that. I tend to think that maybe it's not

970
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 2: the four year cycle, the having cycle that drives the

971
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: prices up and down like that, but the global liquidity

972
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 2: cycles that's doing it. So regardless of what's happened in

973
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: the bitcoin ecosystem, if long term holders hold it and

974
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 2: don't sell it. I think it's kind of captured by

975
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 2: this liquidity cycle. I'm curious after talking with Michael how

976
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 2: what your opinion is on that.

977
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, and I think, you know,

978
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: also could be funny enough, it could also be centered

979
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: a little bit around the election cycles, because the election

980
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 1: cycles could also drive the liquidity cycles.

981
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: Yea.

982
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: And the election cycles bring a lot of uncertainty, and

983
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: once you get certainty in the market, just like we

984
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: saw in this past fall, when you had certainty that

985
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: Trump was going to be elected and that he is elected,

986
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: well bitcoin ripped, you know, it went from sixty to

987
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: ninety one hundred plus at thousand and So why is that, Well,

988
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: there's a few reasons. You take uncertainty out of them,

989
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: out of the market, which market hates uncertainty, and then

990
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: you actually inject optimy because you had such a terrible

991
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: administration prior to this. Yeah, you know, the Biden administration

992
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: was abysmal for the digital assets and for cryptocurrencies and

993
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: business overall, and business overall, so they now you have this,

994
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: you have that's positive, right. The other thing that we

995
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: that what Michael and I talked about though, is exactly

996
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: what you said is that cycle, right. So the liquidity cycle,

997
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: actually it dipped down and bottomed out in about October

998
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: of twenty two, and since then it's been rising again slowly.

999
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: You had you have periods like we had in December

1000
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: and January where the quidey was kind of it was

1001
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: kind of rolled over, or in November November December kind

1002
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: of rolled over. Well, you know, central banks were not

1003
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: expanding their the liquidity at the rate that they were before,

1004
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: so you do have these blips in between, but overall

1005
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: we're on the upswing and we you know, and I

1006
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: agree with Michael, he expects that liquidity cycle to go

1007
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: on the upswing and top out in mid twenty twenty six.

1008
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: So that's funny that you say that, because I would say,

1009
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: not even thinking about just Michael Howell's chart, but thinking

1010
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: about that bitcoin liquidity cycle, that seems to fit exactly

1011
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: with what people are thinking that we'll really hit the

1012
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: top here at the end of twenty twenty five into

1013
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 1: the middle of twenty twenty six, and that would kind

1014
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: of dovetail nicely. The only the only stipulation there and

1015
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: the only kind of hesitation I have with it with

1016
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: it moving exactly with that cycle is Bitcoin tends to lag.

1017
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: So Bitcoin lags six to eight weeks, maybe even longer,

1018
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: maybe eight to twelve weeks on that liquidity. So liquidy

1019
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: has to come into the market and then it finds

1020
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: its way into bitcoin. And so when you put Bitcoin

1021
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: up against say something like M two or Michael Howell

1022
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: has a chart where he shows it up against UH

1023
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: and he's got it lagging, so he shows it right

1024
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: up against her. It it really does follow that liquidity pretty.

1025
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: But it seems like the pump, the upswing on bitcoin

1026
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 2: has that lag, but then the drop almost front runs it.

1027
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the drop is precipitous, Right, You've got to be

1028
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 1: really careful and understand what you're doing.

1029
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 2: If you looked at when when Powell Jerme Powell announced

1030
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: that they were going to start raising rates, was that

1031
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 2: October November of twenty one, I believe, I think that's yes, right,

1032
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: and the twenty two they were and it was like

1033
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: January or March and they started raising it, but they

1034
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: announced it right in their four guidance telling you what

1035
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: was going to happen, and bitcoin sold off immediately. Yeah,

1036
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 2: and then the Nasdaq was like a week or two later,

1037
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: but the hat P five hundred didn't sell off for

1038
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: like until January. Right.

1039
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: Well, bitcoin has been the tip of the risk spear,

1040
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: so people, And what I mean by that is that

1041
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: it has been it has been a the point of

1042
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: vision and like the point of view of and the

1043
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: visibility forward looking liquidity. And so it's exactly what you

1044
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: just said. And so yeah, you can't wait for Michael

1045
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 1: Holliw's chart to come out to say that liquidity is top.

1046
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: It's coming back down. You're going to see it in bitcoin. Yeah. Now,

1047
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: I don't believe that bitcoin remains as volatile as it

1048
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: is today in the future. I think it's that volatility

1049
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: is going to dampen. You're not We're not going to

1050
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: see eighty percent draw downs.

1051
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: But is that a bad thing or a good thing?

1052
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: Well, uh, it's a good thing for the store of

1053
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: long term value, right And because it shortens that it

1054
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: shortens that length that you have to hold it to

1055
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 1: be sure that you'll get your your store of value.

1056
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: And so that's a good thing and that will but

1057
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: it's just a natural thing. You know, when you have

1058
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: institutions that are investing trillions of dollars into this protocol,

1059
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: now not just millions, hundreds of millions, but trillions of dollars.

1060
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: Now you've got this liquidity in this in this asset

1061
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: that it's it. It kind of puts bumpers on it. Right.

1062
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is that an institution

1063
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: will own a position, they'll get their percentage position. Say

1064
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: you're you know, a very large endowment, and you've got

1065
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: a billion dollar let's call it one hundred million dollar

1066
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: position in bitcoin, and so you've got your hundred million

1067
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: dollars and that's it's a percentage of your portfolio. Well,

1068
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: bitcoin is in its cycle and it goes up to

1069
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: two three hundred million dollars. Well, now it's not just

1070
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: one percent of your portfolio, but it's two three percent. Now,

1071
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: if you're supposed to only have one percent in your portfolio,

1072
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna pair back. So it's going to kind of

1073
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: clip that euphoria foam all high, and that you'll have

1074
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: these institutions selling into that. Yeah, and then when it

1075
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: comes back down, the rest of your portfolio will catch

1076
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: up and it'll come back down. And then you'll now.

1077
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: Who sells their winners and holds their losers?

1078
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: What kind of world is that these institutions, they pair

1079
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: it back just to manage their exposure in their portfolios.

1080
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: It's almost algorithmic, and so then when it comes back,

1081
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: they'll add to it to you know, top it back

1082
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: up and get it into that right percentage of exposure

1083
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: they want their portfolio. And so that'll dampen the downside,

1084
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: so it'll kind of put some bumpers on it. That's

1085
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: a little ways off. I don't think it's going to

1086
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: happen in this cycle, but I do believe the next

1087
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: cycle we're really going to see the impact of that.

1088
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: I was always told to let your winners run long,

1089
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: cut your losers short. All right, James, last question. We've

1090
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: been talking in sort of like these five year cycles.

1091
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: Let's start there. So if we fast forward five years,

1092
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: if someone listening here ignores everything we talked about today

1093
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: and just keeps investing in the way they always have,

1094
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: what happens to.

1095
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: Them in five years and just well, it depends on

1096
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: how are they investing.

1097
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 2: Let's ask that their dollar cost averaging into their mutual funds.

1098
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I I think that they'll be okay,

1099
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, they'll mean, they'll they'll probably keep up mostly

1100
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: with the expanse of money supply. But the problem is

1101
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: in these cycles, you'll have these massive draw downs and

1102
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: and you know, you'll you don't you don't have the

1103
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: ability to move around your capital swiftly. You know, I

1104
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: would say that bitcoin is that. That's why we're focused

1105
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: on bitcoin in particular, because I believe that it's going

1106
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: to grow faster than any other asset class in the world.

1107
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: And uh, and it's going to continue to do that

1108
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: for for a while. And so if you're not exposed

1109
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: to it, I think that you are, you're at a

1110
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: disadvantage in your portfolio. And this is what I tell institutions,

1111
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: in particular family offices and which you know, this is

1112
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: funny because they're starting to realize this. They're coming to

1113
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: us and and saying, hey, do you have capacity in

1114
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: that first fund? No, the first fund's closed. That's why

1115
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we're open to the second fund

1116
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: is because we have people coming to us and saying,

1117
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, I need to have some exposure. I don't

1118
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: really know exactly how to get exposure in the space myself,

1119
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: and I want to do more than just buy bitcoin,

1120
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: so you know, and so what's really important about this

1121
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: is that when you have exposure to bitcoin in your portfolio,

1122
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: then it actually it not only raises your returns mark,

1123
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: but you know this, you've seen the numbers. It raises

1124
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: your sharp ratio, which means that it provides a better

1125
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: risk adjusted to return to your portfolio, which is what

1126
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: we just talked about, because bitcoin will become uncorrelated to

1127
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: the other assets and be growing faster than them at

1128
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: the same time. I mean, what a great way to

1129
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, enhance your portfolio. Right, So the people who

1130
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: do that, I believe are going to be much better

1131
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: off in ten years than the people five or ten

1132
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: years than the people who.

1133
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: Don't, especially if for my calculation, I won't put you

1134
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: on the spot. For my calculation, I think bitcoin has

1135
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: a ten X in front of it over the next

1136
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: five years.

1137
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, mine is mine's the next seven. Yeah, so

1138
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: if you ten X to the next seven.

1139
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 2: You know the problem with the mutual funds is that

1140
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: even if they do keep up with the rate of

1141
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 2: debasement and they average seven percent over the next period, One,

1142
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: that's not the real number. Two the fees. I mean

1143
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 2: most people, most people only get about a third of

1144
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: the profits. About two thirds of those profits go to

1145
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 2: the to the administrators and the managers. So cool. Well,

1146
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: let's let's wrap it up with that. The Bitcoin Opportunity

1147
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 2: Fund James fun number two. We talked about that. We're

1148
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: going to link to that in the show notes down below.

1149
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: If anybody wants to get a better risk adjested return

1150
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: added to their bitcoin profile and doesn't want to be

1151
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: regretful in five years, check it out.

1152
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, Mark look forward to the next time

1153
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: I thinks