WEBVTT - The Priests of Plague 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:09.119 The Internet. Ship up. This is podcast Robert behind you 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.240 know Bastards and such. Hello. Everyone, This is Behind the 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.880 Bastards and I'm here to podcast on the Internet. That's 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.040 most of what I wanted to get across. Anything else, Sophie. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:27.320 Uh no, okay, good Now today we're we're talking with 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.800 my friend Mr Miles Gray. Miles, how are you? How 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:36.440 are you doing in quarantine? Oh? My god, help me, Robert, 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:42.839 You're not You're not doing great. I'm I'm fine relatively speaking. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.600 I'm I'm getting used to a new way of living, 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.559 to put it mildly, but you know, it's taking a lot. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.159 I'm actually learning a lot about myself through this quarantine, 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.800 and I'm trying to use that part to be empowering 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.680 rather than fucking frightening. Well, we're all learning a lot 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.280 during this new period of quarantine, and some of the 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.120 people who are learning the most are America's religious leaders, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.400 particularly the leaders of large churches that make their money 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.039 by having a lot of people uh cram in the 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:17.399 door every Sunday and and drop out donations. Um. Yeah. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.640 And today, Miles, we're going to talk about how organized 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:26.199 religion historically response to plagues. Uh and that's gonna be 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.560 a fun topic for you to discuss. Are you a 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.520 big fan of plagues or organized religion? I'm plagues, not 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.120 as much, not as much as I used to be. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:42.520 Not as much plagues around When that game Plague Inc. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.440 Came out and I was just sucking laughing my ass off, 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.720 I'm like, here, come to London Olympics, get ready for 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.880 global spread um. Anyway, but organized religion. I went to 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.360 Lutheran school until eighth grade, and then I went to 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.960 Catholic High school, so I know a little bit of 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:05.760 out of all sides of the crucifix, of the crucifix? Interesting, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.280 Oh right, because religion? Yeah that makes sense. Okay, well Miles, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.080 let's let's let's let's let's let's shove our intellectual probost 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:22.080 guy into this subject and uh excrete saliva in order 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.400 to dissolve it so that we can suck it back 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:30.160 up and gain nourishment. Wow, who what flies? What insect 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.959 was a fad? Okay? Yeah, they like squirt goop out 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.400 and it dissolves stuff and then they suck it back up. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.320 I'm pretty sure that's how flies work. Can you now? 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.760 This is the natural extension of knowing something like that is, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.440 can you make a big barrel of whatever they spit 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.639 out and just kill somebody with that? Uh? Probably not. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.360 I mean maybe if the flies are carrying a disease, 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:53.880 but they aren't always. You know, you have to think 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.080 you need a lot of flies. You need a lot 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.000 of flies now miles outside of your planes to murder 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.040 people with flies. Um, let's talk about let's get into 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.079 the subject. So on a video posted nearly February eighteen, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.120 Texas evangelical preacher and member of Donald Trump's Faith Advisory Council, 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.720 Gloria Copeland said this to her parishioners in a Facebook 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.240 live video. And I wanna I wanna have you play 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.560 that and and play the start too, about a minute 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.320 in four seconds. Well, listen, partners, we don't have a 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.520 flu season. We've got a duck season, the dear season, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.520 but we don't have a flu season. And don't receive 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.720 it when somebody threatens you with everybody's getting the flu, 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.920 we've already had our shot. He bore our sicknesses and 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.160 carried our diseason. That's what we send though, and by 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.640 his stripes we were healed. If you've already got the flu, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:49.800 I'm gonna pray for you right now. Father, I pray 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.040 for every person that has symptoms of flu. I'm asking 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.400 your Lord, but your supernatural power to heal them now 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.080 from the top of their into the souls of their feet. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.880 Flu I bind you off of the people. And Jesus, 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:11.800 Jesus himself gave us the flu shot. He redeemed us 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.960 from the curse of flu. And we receive it, and 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.760 we take it, and we are healed by his strips. Amen. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.080 You know, the Bible says he himself bore our sicknesses 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:30.760 and carried our diseases, and by his strips were goodness. Yeah, 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:35.720 that's pretty great, isn't it. Who he Dude, her energy 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.960 is like someone at a bar who has been lying 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.800 about everything they've been telling you the whole time, but 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.120 it's ultimately trying to get free drinks. Like he's like, yeah, 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.680 you know, because basically, like the way I look at 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.760 it is everybody's blessing to how like it's just very fast, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.640 very smooth. But she sounds fucked up though too, in 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.159 a weird way, like yeah, she does sound like she's 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.599 she's she's doing all of this to like get you 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:04.800 to give her a pack of cigarettes. Right, Yeah, you 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.000 know you want to, but you know, the people who 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:09.600 do that get a lot of free shots and a 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.640 lot of cigarettes. Uh. And she has made a lot 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.800 of money and is now advising President Donald Trump. Yeah, 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.600 it's it's pretty cool, Gloria. And that video went on 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.040 to note that um, uh, pete listeners should just keep saying, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.200 I'll never have the flu. I'll never have the flu. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.440 Inoculate yourself with the word of God. Flu I bind 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.640 you off of the people in the name of Jesus. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:39.880 It's good stuff. Yeah. Again. That was February of two thousand, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.080 eighteen miles and that year's flu season was, according to 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:48.400 the CDC, responsible for more hospitalizations than any previous season 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.560 in the CDC's records. Uh. And the fact that Copeland 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.400 had the ear of the President while she was advising 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.000 her more than a million listeners to not get flu shots, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.719 um may have had an impact on why that season 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.800 was so bad, and may also have been a message 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.120 of things to come. As I write this in March, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.520 we or well, actually yeah I wrote this in March. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.040 It's now April. Um. But we're at a place where 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.120 the president very recently voiced his desire to reopen the 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.760 country well before medical officials advised him to do so 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.680 so that he could have it open in time for Easter. 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.680 It looks like we've moved past that particular bad idea. Um, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.240 but my guy, it was like right on the fucking 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:30.200 edge there for a little while. I don't even Yeah, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.240 I mean, I get it. That would have been great thematically, 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.120 it would have been awesome like that would it would 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.320 have been while everyone was dying around me. I would 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.880 have at least been able to like envision the scene 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.520 in the movie made seventy years later, where like they 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.839 film a bunch of tow like increasingly unsettling like music 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.920 builds as all these different congregants, you know, file in 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.200 and shake each other's hands, and yeah, you could, you could, 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.440 you could, you could make that that four minutes scene 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.680 is amazing, And then switched to the mass graves, you know, 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.200 I mean, it's would be a great meme though, where 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:11.360 Jesus Capitalist Christ uh you know, is being crucified by 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:16.120 COVID nineteen right now and then resurrected on Easter to 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.960 come back with massive sales with thirty percent off some 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:28.320 of your most favorite items. Yeah, yes, um, and you know, 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:37.160 speaking of capitalist Jesus Christ. Um. Uh yeah. So I 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.800 wound up like interested in all this, and I went 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.880 down this rabbit hole of like digging into the reactions 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.120 specifically Christian churches to horrible plagues all throughout history. Um. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.720 And I as a little bit of a I don't know, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.920 content warning here. Um, this whole episode is just because 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.040 I was drunk at on Google at midnight a couple 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.560 of days ago, and and now this exists. So you're 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.280 it's just gonna have to It's gonna happen to you now, Miles, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.400 and there's no there's no escaping it. So we'll start 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.480 with the Black Plague because it killed about a third 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.360 of the world, and it's like, you know, kind of 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.040 the gold standard of plagues, you know, if we're comparing 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.080 plagues to like terrorist manifestos, it's like the plague equivalent 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.520 of the Uni Bomber's book. You know, It's like it's 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.160 like the top of the fucking pillar. You know. Is 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.160 this album? As in terms of albums, it depends on 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:34.360 your taste, But for you, what's you? I think? I 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.200 think The Who's Tommy is the greatest album of all times. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.559 So I would say the Black Plague is the Tommy 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:45.800 of plagues. Wow, okay, I like that. M hm. I 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.840 learned about you right now, thank you. Yeah so. Uh. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.280 Most of our media tends to focus on the damage 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.760 the plague did to medieval Europe, and it it fucked 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.640 medieval Europe, but pretty bad. But the plague actually started 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.880 off somewhere in the East, we don't really know where exactly, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.520 and it was equally devastating in Asia in the Middle East. 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:05.920 And one of the first sources we have for the 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.480 Black Plague was Abu hafs Umar Ibben al Wardi uh In, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.200 a Muslim scholar who himself died of the Black Plague 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.400 in thirteen nine, and he claimed its origin was somewhere 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.760 in China, which at that point was a much vaguer 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.400 term than it is today. Uh And he described that 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.760 in the Near East, it quotes sat like a king 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.800 on a throne and swayed with power, killing daily one 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.280 thousand or more and decimating the population, which is a 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.280 sentiment now that we're losing a thousand Americans a day 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.040 to this. That reminds me more and more of the 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:40.640 president of the country. Yeah. Yeah, hate, you hate when 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.040 history does that thing of like just showing back up, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:48.360 like yeah, you thought I was done. So it's the 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.080 Black plague like rolled probably spread along the Silk Road, 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.120 you know, through travel and transit and the major arteries 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.600 of those two things at the time. Um and yeah, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.520 by thirteen forty nine it is it hit Limburg, Germany, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.120 where one chronicler wrote, there came a great death in 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.120 Germany that is called the first Great death, and they 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:07.960 died by the dozen. And when that began, on the 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.240 third day, they died in Limburg more people died, not 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.000 counting the children because we didn't really count the children 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:15.280 back in the day, Like why would we give a 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.600 shit about the kids? Like funk that noise? How do 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.920 you what the fun was going on back then when 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.319 they're doing body counts, like they're just kids die time, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:28.960 Jeremy Iron, you know kids die for no reason. Yeah. Yeah, 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.440 Like there's kids are just dropping left and right back 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.800 in the day. So until somebody's like fifteen, they're not 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.520 even real. Um. So it's like a bunch of babies 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.320 die like who gives a ship expects are low? Yeah, 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.080 Once some like adults start dropping, then it's like okay, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:46.400 now we're losing some. Right, those little those little screaming 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.120 short people are all quiet. But now there's not as 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.400 many people to go work the field. Something might be wrong. Yeah. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.240 If you can't work, you don't count. Yeah. Yeah, that 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.760 was kind of the attitude. Now at this point in history, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.080 if you were a Christian, you know, there was no 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.880 Protestant game in town, right, it was just like Orthodox 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.480 Christianity and Catholicism, Like that was kind of it for you. Um. 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.960 And since you know, Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism were like 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.640 the Christian religions in town, and the Church in Rome 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.080 was the wealthiest government in Europe and probably the most 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.200 powerful government in Europe. The Church was kind of on 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.120 deck to take action when this horrible plague starts killing everybody. 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.840 Like there's not really much in the way of organization 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.200 or unity pan you know European when the plague hits, 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.360 the church is the closest thing you have, you know, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.760 it's your c d C at the time, and it 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.240 was not great at being the c d C boy 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.680 that is like oh science, yeah no, no, no, not 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.800 our strong suit. Um. Now to give that, I mean 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.839 to give them a little bit of credit. It wasn't 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.880 anyone strong suit at the time. Like, it's not like 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.080 the doctors had a great handle on germ theory in 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.040 the thirteen forties. Um, so no one really knew what 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.800 to do. Um So this will actually be the first 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.560 the only part in the story where like the Church 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.520 isn't taking any they're taking actions that are endangering and 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.200 killing huge numbers of people, but they don't mean to 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:14.160 be you know, um like they couldn't have really known 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.040 how this was all going to work out. It's not 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.040 really there's a lot like a puppy play with like 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.280 dynamite or something. You're like, oh, you don't want to 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:29.920 I I don't know, because like the Catholic Church is 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.400 a horrible had done a lot of horrible, horrible things 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.400 up to this point in history. It's more like it's 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.920 more like a serial killer accidentally backing over a puppy, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.560 where like that doesn't really like if you're trying to 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.319 like list list that person's crimes, like, well, they didn't 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.040 mean to hit the puppy, but it's just a thing 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.360 that happened. Because they that happens to be a thing 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.480 that just happened. It's on their resumes towards the bottom. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.000 Really yeah, it's like John Wayne Gacy accidentally runs over 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.359 a cat. That's the Catholic Church. And this specific instance, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:07.199 like um, so, the Church's first reaction to the outbreakup 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.000 plague in Europe, authorized by the Pope, was to hold 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.840 mass processions through the great cities of Europew. Again, they 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.319 couldn't have known this was a bad idea, but this 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.640 was a terrible, terrible call um And it came out 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.280 of a longstanding tradition called Rogation Days, which were enormous 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.280 multi day processions held by the Church. To quote say, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:33.000 God's desire for penitence. Uh yeah, so like God's piste 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.720 and you gotta march through. God's always angry at you, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.439 and you gotta Like the ancient Catholic Church, if any 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.839 of you had parents who had anger management problems or 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.559 substance abuse issues, and like they come home like really 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.840 piste off, and it's like everybody's job has to be 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.040 to calm down, you know, mom or dad or whoever. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.280 I'm guessing a lot of people listening have had that experience. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.280 That's kind of the general attitude towards the Catholic Church 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.920 is like something bad is happening. We've got all like 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.520 fucking the church, like God is home and drunk and 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:08.680 we need to like hill him out. Yeah, that's very 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.880 much the attitude kind of everyone has towards God in Europe. Um. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.680 And so they start these mass exhibitions of faith to 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.760 honor specific saints. Um. And it also kind of gives 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.960 you know, it kind of helps reinforce the power of 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:27.800 the church in Rome. Um. So Yeah, as one historian wrote, 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.520 it is little wonder than that one of the first 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.480 actions of the Church upon the arrival of the plague 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.160 was to call special civic masses and processions thought to 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.400 be useful in quelling the divine rage and sparking repentance 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.480 in the people. And in some cities these processions lasted 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.760 as long as three days, and we're attended by thousands 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.760 of people penitence. Went barefoot and wore sackcloth. They sprinkled 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.680 each other in ashes, wept, prayed, tore out their hair, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.480 and waved candles as they stumbled through city streets. Um, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.400 you may recognize this all is very bad social distancing. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:02.000 This is not not recommend it. It just plague cella 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.400 in the streets. Yeah, Yeah, it's exactly. It's like all right, 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.160 let's let's let's fucking yeah, let's spring break everywhere. But 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:16.640 with hair tearing, hair tearing, and you know, like sure, 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.480 hair tearing though, isn't like a fun calm thing you 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.680 can say like hair tearing, like you have to really 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.720 envision what's happening there. People are probably screaming, crying, pie 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.400 just yeah, get get a hand on your hair right 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:36.240 now and just kind of feel how deep it's in there. Yeah, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.440 imagine having a list of things where hair tearing is 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.520 probably towards like the top. And you started to buy 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.000 it like okay, ye screaming right, like sobbing right, like 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:49.400 crying great, uh like punching. Sure, you have to get 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.600 through a lot of ship before you're like yeah, hair tearing, yeah, 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.360 pull my own fucking hair out, put my hair out. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.320 It is one of those things like um like tarring 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.000 and feathering where um, you know we kind of it 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.600 just kind of gets like, oh yeah, people used to 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.280 get tired and feathered. That's sure was a thing, but 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.600 it's like no, no, people were pouring boiling pitch on 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:12.560 each on other people and if it killed them. It's 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.000 not like in a fucking like Disney like channel show 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.800 where the kids do a gag where it's like feather. Um, yeah, yeah, 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.960 well it's not it's not really glue, you know, they're 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.640 only glue was like as hot as the coffee that 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.640 burned that woman so bad she needed to be hospitalized 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:35.640 because of McDonald's. Anyway, Um, this is yeah, let's roll along. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.520 So yeah, obviously all these processions spread the bubonic plague 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.600 fucking everywhere, right, like, of course, Um, but you know 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.640 you can't really the Church didn't know what they were doing. Um. 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.400 And for a little bit of fairness, the best data 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.880 we have, which is also very imperfect, and none of it, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.080 you know, is numerical data, But the best data we 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.960 have suggests that non Catholic parts of the world suffered 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.880 pretty similar death rates to the Catholic parts of the world. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.600 So like, and probably because kind of everyone's reaction was 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.199 to do similar things when this starts to happen, like 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.720 it's just this unknown, horrible thing, you know. Um, And 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.320 if we're going to be really fair to the church, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.960 we should also note that priests and nuns probably died 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.879 at a significantly higher rate than the rest of the 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.639 population because they spent a lot of time ministering to 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.040 the sick and dying. Um. In his book The Great Mortality, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.800 John Kelly, the historian, not the not the trump guy 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.639 uh points out that forty two of all of the 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.800 clergy in Europe died during the plague. So half of 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.760 all the priests, half of all the nuns, half of 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.160 everyone who works in the church, which is again your 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.760 only international organization. Effectively in this period, half of them 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.000 are fucking gone. Um. And that's compared about of the 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.920 general populace. And this has a a permanent, long term 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.120 effect on on the church in Rome. And I'm gonna 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.080 quote from a rite up in medievalist dot net. Because 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.080 so many were ill and so few priests remained. As 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.560 the disease progressed, Clement the sixth, who was the pope 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.760 at the time, declared that the dying could make their 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.800 confession to anyone present, even to a woman, said an 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.680 English bishop, and that it would still lead to salvation. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.280 This was a big deal for the church is previously 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.760 only clared you were permitted to perform last rites. As 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.000 Barbara Tuckman writes in A Distant Mirror, the climate is 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.240 fourteenth century climate. The sixth founded necessary to grant remission 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.080 of sin to all who died of the plague because 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.359 so many were unattended by priests. Uh, the priests were 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.520 doing what they could, but they were paying with their lives. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.960 So this is one of those situations where like, the 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.040 Catholic Church isn't really to blame for what happens during 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.439 this period, but really fox them over and you can. Honestly, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.159 a lot of historians look at this as like the 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.360 beginning of the end for church power and the way 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.560 that it had been just because like all of their 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.800 best priests, the most dedicated, the most connected to the 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.040 community all fucking die. Um, and the only priests left 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.560 are like the shittiest, the ones who believed the least, 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:56.520 the ones who are willing to like hide from the plague. Yeah. Um, 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.240 and that has a long term impact, so right yeah 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.960 yeah um. So regular people, because there's suddenly less priests, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.080 less nuns, no one doing last, rites feel like the 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.399 church has abandoned them through the crisis, even though it 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.240 actually probably did more than almost anything to reduce the 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.639 spread of the disease. That now priests who had been 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.280 exposed to the plague weren't wandering around touching people anymore 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.760 or like you don't want to be Yeah. Um, but 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:26.600 people don't see it that way. They see it as 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:31.520 the church abandoning them, um and and so yeah, it's 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.760 pretty cool thing that happens in this period of time. 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:36.600 And it's hard to take any kind of lesson from 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.520 this because, like I'm going to say, it's bad that 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.439 the Catholic Church lost, but it's like messed up that 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.840 after all the genocide and torture. The thing that like 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.760 really starts to funk them over is too many compassionate 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.640 priests trying to minister to the sick. But also those 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.280 compassionate priests were the ones spreading the plague the most. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.000 So it's like there's no lesson a lot of the 0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:01.199 time in history, right, it just filtered out all the 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.960 fucking shitty guys. Yeah. Yeah, there's like the there's like 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:06.840 the bits of history like studying the rise of the 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:08.439 Nazis where it's like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.920 really direct and critical lessons here, and then there's stuff 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.040 where it's like, funk, I don't even know what you're 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.000 supposed to learn from this, Yeah, because you're playing completely 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.840 in a different reality. Yeah, completely a different set of 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:26.520 not this is just some ship that happened wild yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:30.360 that happened. Yeah. And it's worth noting that religion itself 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.480 didn't decline during this period, just people who's faith in 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.160 the church. Um, the dead priests and the disease bearing 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.080 possessions of old were replaced by something that spread just 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.359 as much disease, but that wasn't directly connected to the 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.560 power of the Catholic Church and was in fact even weirder. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.720 And we're gonna talk now about flagelence. Do you know 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:54.000 what flagelence are? Miles like when you self whip? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.760 that's that's the basic idea. I am very excited to 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.480 talk to you about whipping yourself, But you know what's 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.600 a lot like beating yourself bloody with an iron tipped whip. 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:18.480 No capitalism, Yeah that part. Here's some ads, okay, and 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:25.080 we're back, uh, And we're talking about flagelence. So flagelens 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.760 are our men who believed that they were ordained by 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.959 God to redeem society by recreating the suffering of Christ 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.399 on their own bodies. And because I don't know if 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.760 you've ever tried to crucify yourself, Miles. I can say 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.800 from experience it's not easy. Um, there's a lot of 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.679 there's a lot of like really unexpected challenges in the 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.280 self crucifixion process. Yeah. I mean I would only maybe 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.760 only metaphorically emotionally have I engaged in crucifixion. I mean 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:54.720 I do that all the time. Whenever someone gets angry 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.600 at me because I'm say, swinging a machette around and 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.080 it it wounds someone, I put my arms out on 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.600 my side in the manner of Christ to to to 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.040 portray the fact that I have become a christ figure 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.480 and I'm taking the sense of the world onto my 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.800 own body. Um. I find that works out really well 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:17.160 with people. They tend to they tend to respond to that. Yeah. 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.040 But Flagelens are doing this, uh in a in a 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.360 much more direct way. They're they're just beating the ship 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.720 out of themselves. Uh. And I'm going to quote from 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.159 what is I would say generally positive right up from 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.000 the Christian History Institute, because I find it interesting to 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.960 go to these groups sometimes to find their write ups somethings. 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:37.760 So here's how the Christian History Institute describes flagelence stripped 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.359 to the waists beating themselves with leather whips tipped with 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.879 iron spikes until the blood flowed. Groups of two hundred 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.000 to three hundred, and sometimes up to a thousand march 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.800 from city to city. They begged Christ and Mary for pity, 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.920 and townspeople sobbed and growned in sympathy. They performed three 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.240 times a day, twice publicly in the church square and 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.320 once in private. They were organized under a lay master 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:58.960 for usually thirty three and a half days to represent 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.399 Christ's years on earth. They pledge self support and obedience 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:04.760 to the master. They were not allowed to bathe, shave, 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.600 change clothes, sleep in beds, talk, or have intercourse with 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:12.960 women without the master's permission. So you see what we're 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:14.919 going through here is like we start with the Catholic 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.960 Church's response these processions, which are a horrible thing to do, 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.719 and then we move on to the flagelens, which are 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.520 like even we're getting even worse at social distancing now, um, 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.000 because it's just sort of like a like a kink show, 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.199 like a live kink show road to Yeah, it shows 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.680 and the public will do like sun of a basic 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:37.919 self whip being, they'll get off. And then where we 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.840 really get the money is the private shows we do 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:42.640 at night. Now, if you want to get in there, 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.959 we'll do some weird ship. The lay master will let 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:48.760 us fuck if we need to whatever, you know, so 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.600 check it out. It just sounded like a weird racket. 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.720 It's it's it's almost like it's an experiment to see 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.840 how you can spread the plague most efficiently. So now 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.679 you have people who don't bathe for weeks on end 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.159 and beat themselves bloody every day, wandering through town and 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:09.080 they're not just being watched by people. Um, sick children 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.960 are brought to them for healing. Uh. If those children 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.840 have the plague, obviously that spreads to the Flagelens. If 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:16.680 the Flagelens have the plague, it spreads to the sick 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:20.720 kids and their family. But also these people. As these 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:24.880 men are whipping themselves bloody, worshippers would dip their clothing 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.360 in the blood and then press it to and then 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:35.840 press it to their eyes. Disgusting. It's like it really 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.840 is like someone some scientists set out to be like 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:42.400 what's the how can I spread the most plague like? 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.280 And they nail it. They nail it like this is 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:51.600 solid work in terms of plague spreading. I'm very impressed. 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:57.040 Get the bloody whip, guys. Blood it's in your fucking 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.879 rub it in your eyes. You want to get it 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.480 right in that fucking eye, dude, Like that's the place 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.440 to do it. Who fucking told them like that? You need? 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.080 You had to go that far with it. Why couldn't 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:11.119 have just been like, oh, we're near them. Might have 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:14.440 to be like now I need the blood in my 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.320 fucking I You know, I think it's always I think 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.760 Miles that it's kind of like the yes and sort 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:23.199 of thing is applied to religion. You know. This is 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.000 just sort of you just do what feels good in 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:29.240 the moment, you know. Or it's like speaking tongues where 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:33.800 one person whatever and then other people go all the 0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:38.879 way in there like you got watch but yeah, and 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:41.560 they fucking start vibing. Yeah, I get it. Performative. So 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.600 I guess that person just like, oh, you're just gonna 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:46.439 fucking sort of weep near them. I'm gonna put the 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:50.280 fucking blood in my eyes because that's down. And everyone's like, 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:54.159 now we're rubbing plague blood in our eyes. It's a 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:57.280 new hip thing. It spreads viral e you know. Although 0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:59.560 the bubonic plague wasn't a virus. But you know what 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:01.520 I'm saying, you get the get the you get the 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:03.320 I don't think it was a virus. What's the bubonic 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.879 plague of virus? I always get this mixed up, the 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:14.520 whole virus versus bacteria. Bacteria, Yep, yep, that's what I thought. Okay, cool, 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:19.280 I remain a great expert. So the Flagelens are doing 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:22.560 a bad thing here in terms of this objectively spread 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:25.359 the plague to a shipload of people. But again, they're 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:29.120 not monsters, Like there's no one with like good advice 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:31.600 really being like this is a bad idea, and here's 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:33.760 the evidence as to why, Like I mean, you could. 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:35.719 I'm sure there were people who recognize it like this, 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:37.440 really see, it seems like we get a lot more 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.400 plague cases once the Flagelens came in. But like, we're 0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:43.320 not doing so hot at science in this areas. You can't. 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:47.520 They're not trying to be irresponsible. It's a nonsense. Time 0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:49.920 they thought God had just started murdering all of them, 0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:52.680 and they reacted with panic, but also in a way 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:55.000 that like I think I can't call them monsters for 0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:58.880 doing it. Um, Yeah, if we're looking for the greatest 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:02.000 evil committed by Christendom. In the play Gears, Um, it's 0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.920 actually something that occurs kind of separate from the organized 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:08.560 chunks of the Catholic Church, or at least separate from 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:12.200 what the church wanted in that period. See folks suffering 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:14.720 through the worst of the plague. Gears noticed that Jewish 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:17.280 people did not seem to suffer as badly from the 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:19.080 creeping death. And there's a number of theories for this, 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:21.679 and it probably boils down to the fact that number one, 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:25.960 Jewish people bathed regularly in the Middle Ages, and Christians 0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.560 really didn't, so they're kind of the only people. And yeah, 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.240 that's still like maybe like once a week or once 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:33.399 a month or something like. They're not bathing, but bathing, 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:36.320 and other people are just like, no, you just put 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:42.000 on new clothes over your flth and um. They also 0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:44.720 washed the bodies of their dead before burial. And since 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:47.399 the plague is spread heavily by like, um fucking fleas 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:50.480 and stuff like, this helps, right, it reduces the They 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:53.800 don't get it as much as Christians. Um. And they 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:57.120 also aren't attending these giant marches through the city. They're 0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.320 not hanging around near around near the flag a Lens. 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.280 They're doing their own thing in their own neighborhoods, while 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:06.080 Christians and Christian parts of town are rubbing the blood 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:08.960 of whip building transients into their eyes. So it's not 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:11.120 hard to see why Jewish people don't get it quite 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:12.919 as much, and still a lot of them die of 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.320 the plague. Don't get me wrong, but they people notice 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:17.680 that Jewish communities aren't being hit by this as hard 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:21.600 as the Christian ones. Um, And rather than kind of recognized, oh, 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.119 maybe we should start bathing and stop hanging out with 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:28.639 these whip people, UM, Christians started engaging in a series 0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.720 of unspeakably violent pogroms. And in fact, some scholars will 0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:35.240 call this the first Holocaust. UM, and we will we 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:38.240 will never even have a vague idea of the total 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:42.040 death toll. But the individual massacres we know about, we're horrific. UM. 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:45.400 In one Valence Tine's Day in Strasburg, Germany, two thousand 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:48.600 Jewish people were burnt to death. UM. Three thousand Jews 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:50.840 were massacred in a couple of days in the ghetto 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.280 of Mainz. Um. Jews were massacred in Spain and France 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:58.360 and the Balkans and and basically everywhere but chunks of 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.520 Poland because the king of Poland the time had a 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:07.120 Jewish mistress and so he was he was chill. Yeah, 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.719 he was like he's like, hold up, wait a minute, 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.000 this is great for me, So yeah, don't worry about it. 0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:17.680 I'm also just kind of I'm still thinking about the 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:24.720 bathing part where the Christians culturally were so much dirtier, 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:28.160 and they're like, look at them, the old clean people 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:31.880 who don't get sick. They must be involved in some 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:36.880 kind of dark shit or whatever. And then the idea 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:41.719 of yet what I don't know, like the complexion of 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.680 a person who has not bathed in however long you 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:49.240 naturally interact with a bathing situation, what that's like If 0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:52.360 it's like a scratcher that you'd get at a liquor store, 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:54.880 like you'd reveal a whole other thing on. Yeah, you get, 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:57.280 you get holier. You know, the longer you go without bathing, 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:02.040 the more God loves you. Oh damn it. God's God's 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.840 God's into some kinky ship miles. Um, really He's really 0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.920 into you know that, Like, um, you know, you know, 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:13.320 God's favorite pornography is actually old episodes of Peanuts and 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:15.520 that character Pig. But now this has gone too far, 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:23.080 this is god further than it ought to. Oh hell yeah, yeah, 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:25.080 where you going with that, buddy? You want to you 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:27.560 want to finish that there is you know, I didn't 0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.440 want to lead this into like child porn territory. So 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:36.240 let's go back to anti Semitism. Um. So uh now 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:39.800 and trying to like parce out the Catholic Church is 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:43.680 guilt in this. The Catholic Church is guilty of a ton, an, 0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:47.520 absolute assload of anti Semitism over the centuries, and they 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.560 definitely seeded communities around Europe with a lot of this 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:53.640 and reinforced it in their Catholic churches with like stained 0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:56.440 glass reliefs of Jewish people killing Christian children that are 0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:58.200 around to this day. There were even more of them 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:01.200 back then. So there's absolutely a significant level of guilt 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:04.880 that goes into the Catholic Church in terms of inculcating 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.280 these enough of these beliefs in people that they were 0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.320 there when the plague hit and that had an impact 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.760 on the massacre. But when it comes to what they 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:15.560 actually did during the plague when Jewish people started getting murdered. 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.160 They didn't they didn't encourage this sort of ship quite 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:22.240 the opposite. In fact, Pope Clement the sixth released two 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:25.520 papal bowls during the plague, one in eight, and papal 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.840 bowls were kind of like the presidential tweets of the day, 0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:30.040 like this is Pope Clement like getting up and and 0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:33.800 hopping on the twitter um. The first of his papal 0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:37.120 bowls condemned people who attacked Jews for spreading the plague 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:39.800 uh and in specifically stated that Christians who did this 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:43.000 had been seduced by that liar the devil. And in 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.040 his second papal bowl, Pope Clement said, it cannot be 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:48.360 true that the Jews, by such a heinous crime, are 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:51.120 the cause or occasion of the plague, because through many 0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:53.160 parts of the world, the same plague, by the hidden 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:55.920 judgment of God, has afflicted and afflicts the Jews themselves 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.240 in many other races who have never lived alongside them, 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:02.160 which is actually like a really reasonable, like scientifically backed 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:05.240 reason for for not doing this, Like he's actually very 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:07.920 he handles this as well as you can expect, I guess, 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:10.160 like that's like that's like that meme where it shows 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:14.880 like level of thinking where it's just fucking light bursting 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:17.840 out of your skull. We're like, hold on, let's look around. 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:22.719 Everybody's getting it. Everybody's getting it. That's not fair. Cities 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.680 without any Jewish people are getting to like you can't 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:29.320 you clearly this can't be their fault. Hey, I want Hey, 0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:31.320 I want to blame him as much as you guys do. 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:33.520 Trust me, I do. I'm the pope. I want to 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.520 It would be great if we could love blaming people. 0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:40.440 Huge about blame. I mean, I would love to escapegoat, 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:47.400 but I'm just this one's tough. This I will say, 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:50.000 it's interesting that the initial response of the Pope in 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:55.960 Um was arguably based in sounder science than the first 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.800 responses of the President of the United States to r 0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:05.719 o Play Like clements reasoning is more solid than what 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:10.560 Trump was dropping. So there you go. You're getting own. 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:15.200 You're getting owned from centuries and so Clement the sixth 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:17.760 I would say, response to this about as well as 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:20.680 you could have possibly hoped. But also a lot of 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.840 people ignore him, millions of people. And there's also obviously 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:27.480 there's individual Catholic priest, individual churches who don't follow it. Like, 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:32.160 but people in general follow some people aren't on Twitter 0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:37.160 as Yeah, tens of thousands of Jews die horribly during 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:39.920 the plague from violence, you know, kind of a minimum um. 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:43.560 And the explanation you'll hear most often for why these 0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:45.960 people were killed is that ignorant Christians assumed that the 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.360 Jews were poisoning them all as part of some sort 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:51.719 of like white genocide scheme. Um. And yeah, this is 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:53.760 this is something the Church does deserve some credit for 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:56.680 because they spread the rumor that Rabbi sacrificed Christian children 0:33:56.720 --> 0:34:02.240 for centuries. But um, the it's more complicated than that, 0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:05.440 even though, because more recent research into the eradication of 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.239 Jewish communities in Europe during the plague suggests that what 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:11.000 happened actually has fairly little to do with the actual 0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:15.160 damage done by the plague. In other words, the places 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:17.680 where Jewish people weren't killed weren't necessary the places that 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:19.680 suffered most from the plague. It wasn't Oh, a bunch 0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:21.760 of us died from the plague, and now we're angry 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.120 and we need a scapegold to be violent towards. It's 0:34:24.120 --> 0:34:27.320 actually not that's that doesn't seem to be what really happened, 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:29.160 and I'm gonna quote now from a paper put out 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:32.400 by the Elliott School of International Affairs at George Washington University. 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.120 At an aggregate level, we found that scapegoating led to 0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.200 an increase in the baseline probability of a persecution. However, 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:42.760 at the city level, locations which experienced higher plague mortality 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:47.000 rates were less likely to engage in persecutions. Furthermore, persecutions 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.520 were more likely in cities with a history of anti 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.920 semitism consistent with scapegoating, and less likely in cities where 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.759 Jews played an important economic role. This jokes with long 0:34:56.800 --> 0:35:00.239 standing findings in the field of genocide studies. Essential what 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:02.880 you're seeing is that like the towns that people hated 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:05.680 Jews the most before the plague took the opportunity to 0:35:05.760 --> 0:35:08.400 murder a bunch of Jewish people, the towns that suffered 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:09.920 the worst from the plague, if they didn't have as 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:12.160 much of a history from anti Semitism, they didn't find 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:16.359 themselves driven to suddenly start killing Jewish people. Um. It 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:20.440 was folks who just kind of took the opportunity. Um. 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.480 And one of the things that seemed to be most 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.560 protective of Jewish people during this time was the cities 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.719 in which they were kind of most economically integrated. And this, 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:32.960 um this brings us to a real fucking bummer in 0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:37.880 the field of genocide studies. Uh and it, I'm gonna mean, 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.439 it almost seems like a given, Like yeah, I want 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.279 to tell you, like the really the coolest thing, the 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.960 most fun thing about genocide studies, Like that's I don't 0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:49.920 know if that's ever sentence someone's going to say, so 0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:52.600 thank you though for preparing me. I consider this one 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:55.120 of the least fun things about genocide studies, even though 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:58.760 it's kind of explaining why genocides don't happen in some places. 0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:02.040 Um quote. According to the scapegoating theory, members of a 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:04.920 majority experiencing negative shocks settle on a specific target to 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:08.240 blame for their problems. Another potential mechanism determining the likelihood 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.960 of persecution focuses on the extent of economic complementarities, so 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:15.320 the ability to which their economically intermingled between the majority 0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:18.440 and the minority. This thesis argues that patterns of economic 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.720 complementarity and substitute ability determine the ability of two groups 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:24.600 to coexist when the economic activities of the two groups 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.080 complement each other, shocks may lead the majority to protect 0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:32.319 the minority because of its economic value. So that's a 0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:36.439 bummer that, like what protected communities from. I mean, there's 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.319 two ways to view it. Either the soulas is like 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:41.960 oh no, like purely, when people think that they have 0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:45.760 financial benefits from not murdering each other, they don't murder 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.279 each other. That's the bummer where it's like, oh god, 0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:52.239 our only solution is more capitalism. The other way to 0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:54.160 look at is just that like, no, when when two 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:56.960 different groups, when a minority group becomes intermingled with a 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.880 majority and they all become economically tied, they get to 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:03.719 know each other, they shop at each other's stores, and 0:37:03.760 --> 0:37:06.280 they don't and they're like, oh no, I know these people, 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:08.640 they're part of my community. I'm not going to murder them. 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.040 And I see that they have there's we have value 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:14.120 that we offer each other and at all, it's not 0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:17.080 just like who the funk are these people? Yeah, so 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.080 you can you can interpret this and in an optimistic 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.240 view of human nature or a pessimistic view of human nature, 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.799 and it kind of feeds equally well into either. You know, 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:28.239 I wonder if it would be something like, well, you know, 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:33.919 once there's robots, Um, we're just going to be that's 0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:36.239 I mean, that's my solution. Like, I don't know, that 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:40.839 seems like that motive seems a little bit far off. 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.000 You know, for years now, Miles, every time we've hung out, 0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:46.240 I've said, if there weren't robots, I'd be murdering you. Um. 0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:48.759 And I never really thought about why I was saying that, 0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:51.600 but yeah, it was super funny. And then now that 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:56.880 you said this, I'm starting anyway. Yeah, we can explore 0:37:56.880 --> 0:38:03.280 that later. Um. So yeah, it's cool stuff. Um. Anyway, 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.879 there's a lot of the Black plague is a bomber um. 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:08.880 And and we're going to move on from the Black plague. Uh, 0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:11.319 and the question of whether or not genocide is inevitable 0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:15.719 or if it's only avoidable with economic complimentarity or whatever. 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:18.440 We're gonna We're gonna move on from that complicated topic 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:21.759 of discussions to talk about something fun. The Spanish flew 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:24.879 epidemic of nineteen eighteen. Are you a big span flu fan? 0:38:25.560 --> 0:38:30.680 Are you a sea Yeah? Oh my God of the 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:36.520 flues so much about this whole thing. I love it 0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:41.600 so much. Um. Yeah, if I'm you know. No. The 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:43.480 only thing I know is that I think Babe Ruth 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:46.759 got it twice. That sounds about that sounds like Babe Ruth, 0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:49.080 And a lot of people would say, you know, Babe Ruth, 0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:51.680 it's the Babe Ruth of flues. I think more modernly 0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:54.400 people would say it's the Lebron James of flues. But 0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:59.120 it's really this is like you're sucking. I'm just saying, 0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:02.000 if Lebron was a flu, he would kill five to 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:08.520 fifty million human beings, much like is though, just as 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:10.480 like a personal thing. I feel very proud of you 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:14.439 for knowing he don't bring him into this dunking. Well look, 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:20.480 I'm just trying to make this to the audience. Lebron James, 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:26.360 I mean, how far? And like the Lakers, the Spanish 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:29.400 flu carried out a series of dunks all around the world. 0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:32.359 Um that killed tens of millions of people, just like 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:36.960 the Lakers. Oh my god, now this is do you 0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:38.560 do You have you heard much about like how the 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:42.520 name Spanish flu came about Miles. Isn't it like his 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:46.920 xenophobic label? No? Um, well it became one. Actually, it's 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:51.640 very this is a tremendous irony. Um So the Spanish Flu, 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.040 we don't know where it came from. Some people say 0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:56.440 somewhere in Asia, some people say somewhere in eastern Europe. 0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.080 There's actually a really good chance it started in Kansas. 0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:00.960 And if you like, some people tracing it back to 0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:05.439 think that it actually did start in Kansas. Um. Yeah, 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:08.399 And if the Spanish Flu originated from Kansas, then it's 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.239 probably the second deadliest thing to come out of that state, 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:16.440 right next to Kirstie Alley. Um. Yeah, it's yeah. I 0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:25.200 was just talking about Kirsty recently. Yeah, I fifty million 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:29.160 human beings. Um. So the Moniker, the Spanish Flu came out. 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.600 The Spanish Flu started to break out in nineteen eighteen. 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:33.800 And what was happening in nineteen eighteen, we have this 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:35.600 this whole World War One thing. You might have heard 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.279 of it, Um it was kind of World Wars before 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:43.200 World Wars were cool, you know, yeah, before they got gentrified. Um, 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:49.080 before like Disney took over. Um So, the Spanish flew 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:51.840 this influenza hits and it starts killing people on the 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.160 Western Front is where a lot of early cases were, 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:56.719 and it spread heavily, but it actually killed more people 0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:58.439 than the whole war that, but it starts spreading widely 0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.480 among soldiers. But like all of the Western powers, had 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:03.719 clamped down on freedom of the press during the war, 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:07.040 so you couldn't report in England, or in France or 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.480 in Germany. You couldn't write stories about this new flu 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:11.600 that was spreading. You'd get fucking you wind up in 0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:14.400 a fucking prison cell. Whereas Spain is a neutral power 0:41:14.440 --> 0:41:17.080 and their press is relatively free during this time. So 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:20.239 Spanish newspapers start reporting on the influenza first, and so 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.840 people blame start assuming that it started in Spain. And 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:26.600 there absolutely is racism and persecution as a result of this. 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:31.560 But just because Spain didn't clamp down on the press, 0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:35.200 super fucked up. Holy sh it, look at you had 0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:38.640 to fucking open your big fucking mouth, and ye shouldn't 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:43.239 have had just Spain. It's good that they did, but 0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:46.120 it is just part of one of the lessons of 0:41:46.160 --> 0:41:49.799 histories that you should never do good things because everything's bad. No, 0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:52.240 that's not the lesson of history, but it can feel 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:57.280 that way sometimes. Uh, don't lose hope. Let's talk about 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:01.200 the Spanish flu pandemic. So the influenza did start in Spain, 0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:03.680 but it did kill a funk pile of Spaniards, like 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:07.120 it killed so many Spanish people miles. Um. I would 0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:09.320 compare it to like Christie Alley um in its ability 0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:12.560 to murder people in Spain. How many piles to a 0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:16.400 Christie Alley is seven or eight? Um so And in 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:19.440 nowhere in Spain did the Spanish flu kill more people 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:22.520 than the town of Zamora, or kill at least a 0:42:22.600 --> 0:42:25.239 higher percentage of people than the town of Zamora. Now, 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:27.680 Zamora was renowned as being one of the most devout 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:30.440 parts of Spain, which was a very devout country at 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:33.200 this time, you know. Uh. And Zamora was very particularly 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:36.359 famous for its Holy Week processions, which are kind of like, 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.200 you know, sort of like what we saw with the 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:40.640 Black plague. You know, it's the it's this thing that 0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:43.000 the Church has always done. They would have these processions 0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:46.680 of barefoot, hooded peditents um, like marching through town and 0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:50.160 everybody sort of show up to watch them and worship together. Um, 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:52.600 which is I'm sure a very satisfying thing to do 0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:55.720 if you're a Catholic believer, but also is a super 0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:59.200 good way to spread the plague. Um. So that's that's 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:03.399 a big part of the culture in Zamora. UM. Now. So, 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:06.279 in nineteen fourteen, Zamora had welcomed the arrival of a 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:10.759 new bishop named Antonio Alvario I Blanno at thirty eight 0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:13.840 years old. The church newspaper El Cario had declared Bologno 0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:16.440 an eloquent, youthful, fire brand of a leader. So he's 0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:18.960 like this hot young priest who comes into town. He's 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:23.959 very popular, very charismatic. Uh and he's you know, four 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:27.279 years into the gig when the play hits um and 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:29.200 So the Bishop of Zamoura had been seen as something 0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:31.400 of like a wounder kin within church circles prior to 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.399 this point, which is why he got that job so young. 0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:35.320 He'd been one of the best students in his seminary, 0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:37.400 and at age twenty three he'd become the chair of 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:41.000 metaphysics at the seminary in Guadalajara. UM. So he was 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:45.839 a very well respected guy within the church. Um and Yeah. 0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:48.799 The book Pale writer by Laura Spinning notes of the 0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:51.759 bishop quote. In his inaugural letter to his new diocese, 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:55.360 Alvario Ebilangno wrote that men should actively seek God in truth, 0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:57.880 which were the same thing, and expressed his surprise that 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.520 science seemed to advance and step with it a termination 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:03.520 to turn away from God. The light of reason was weak, 0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:07.520 and modern society's mistake contempt for God's law for progress. 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.120 He wrote of dark forces that wish to reject God 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:14.919 or even annihilate him, if that were possible. So we're 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:17.960 not set up with this guy being a great dude 0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:20.560 to handle the first plague that hits in an era 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:23.560 where people actually know about science and how disease spreads 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:27.560 in a real concerted way. Yeah, because because what he 0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:29.640 is like, Oh, don't come at me with science, bro, 0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:33.080 I'm a fucking man of God. Science is atheism receipts 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:35.439 and I don't need those in front of my face 0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:38.400 right now. Yeah. And this is like, you know, Spanish 0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:40.800 blue hits were like right on the cusp of antibiotics. 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:42.520 You know, we haven't really locked that ship down, but 0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:45.440 like we're starting to understand how all this ship works. 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.040 And so there are experts who have good advice in 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:52.920 the Spanish flu and um, yeah, he's not going to 0:44:53.000 --> 0:44:55.960 be the kind of guy who listens to experts. So 0:44:56.560 --> 0:44:58.759 when the when the influenza hit the country that would 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.040 become its namesake. It starts at first in the east. 0:45:01.320 --> 0:45:04.000 By September it had traveled into the interior of Spain. 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:06.920 That fall was a particularly good time for it to 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:09.880 spread in Spain because September is a harvest month, and 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:12.160 it's also the month when many Spanish cities would host 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:16.760 bull fights, which again I would say, I love fighting 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:19.160 bulls um during this time of the year. If you're 0:45:19.200 --> 0:45:21.319 like me, try to do it alone. Don't fight bulls 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:23.120 with hundreds of other people in the center of the town. 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:26.640 It's it's gonna spread, you know, COVID nineteen A, right, 0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:30.200 how many bulls have you thought? I don't know. It's 0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:32.240 kind of hard to remember with all the head injuries, 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:36.640 but you know, yeah, so said. Fall was also kind 0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:38.479 of the time of the year in which the army 0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:42.040 would send new recruits to Zamora to conduct artillery drills, 0:45:42.360 --> 0:45:45.000 and this is probably how the disease first gets gets 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:47.080 to the town, because some of these recruits were sick 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:49.720 by the time they hit Zamora, and many soon followed. 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:52.680 And at first the city government attempted to quarantine six 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:55.840 soldiers in their barracks, but this did not work, probably 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.560 do partly to the fact that soldiers infected people before 0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:00.680 anyone knew that they were sick, and partly due to 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.200 the fact that you just you can't try stop soldiers 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:06.040 from fucking, you know, especially Spanish soldiers. They're just gonna 0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:10.520 sunk their way through that town and they're pictures. Yeah, 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:16.840 the Legion, the Spanish legion. Oh my boy. There's a 0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:19.319 whole fun discussion about the fact that those guys were 0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:23.640 like the main arm of Spain's fascist dictator and colonial anyway, 0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:25.640 we don't need to get into that, but yes, but 0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:30.400 those vs are so deep. You can be fucking and 0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:34.200 Spanish troops especially be fucking and I think they be 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.040 fucking they be spreading the influenza when I think you 0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:41.319 can assume assume. However, the hotter the soldier, the more 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:44.880 evil they are. Yeah, the more plague they're gonna spread, 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:50.640 which is why my presidential campaign will rest upon only 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:55.000 hiring ugly people to be in the army. Were fantastic. Yeah, 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:59.480 we're gonna lock this ship down, no no more. You're 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:02.520 gonna have to brand that differently, so it's not like, yeah, 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.719 well actually landed on it. This is our way of 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:08.520 dealing with it, is just branding their faces. You know, 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:14.080 as I'm a anybody ugly with it, this probably not 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:18.840 that you should it should be a different name. Like, 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:22.240 it's not for ugly. It's an army of the normal, 0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:24.840 you know, not for the hot. So that way, you know, 0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:27.160 people don't have to admit to themselves they might not 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.720 be as beautiful. We don't We don't want to do branding, 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:33.440 but we do want to plug these brands because you 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:38.320 know what time it is speaking of burning people's faces 0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:42.200 permanently to make them less aesthetically pleasing and reduce the 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:46.879 spread of fascistic, militaristic dogma. You know what else will 0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:50.480 brand your faces in order to stop the spread of 0:47:50.920 --> 0:47:59.400 negative attitudes towards the sectioness of violence. These products a 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:10.160 great we're back. So, yeah, these troops come into town, 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:14.040 they they intermingle with the civilian population. Everybody in fucking 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:17.279 Zamora starts to get sick, right yeah, And enough people 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.480 are sick within a couple of weeks that it actually 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:21.120 gets in the way of the town's ability to take 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.440 in the harvest, which of course means people start to starve. 0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:26.480 It's not a good situation. And the whole problem was 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:29.359 exacerbated by the fact that people did not have kind 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:33.919 of an ideal handle on virology. Um, the the experts did, 0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:38.080 but normal people were still not all that far off 0:48:38.120 --> 0:48:40.560 from kind of where normal people were, you know, during 0:48:40.560 --> 0:48:43.840 the bubonic plague right there. There's doctors get this stuff, 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:46.560 but like your average Joe doesn't. And I'm gonna quote 0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:49.680 from the book Pale Writer again. During the first wave 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:53.080 of the pandemic, the country's Inspector General of Health, Martin Salazar, 0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:55.879 had lamented the inability of a bureaucratic and underfunded health 0:48:55.880 --> 0:48:58.919 system to prevent the disease from spreading. Though provincial health 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:01.239 committees took their lead from his directorate, they had no 0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:03.520 powers of enforcement, and they quickly came up against what 0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:06.120 he described as the terrible pignorance of the populace, the 0:49:06.160 --> 0:49:08.759 failure to grasp, for example, that an infected person on 0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:15.319 the move would transmit the disease. Oh yeah, ignorance, pignorance. Yeah, 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:17.919 we've never seen anything like that happen again, because we've 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:20.680 obviously moved forward so much in the last century, and 0:49:20.880 --> 0:49:24.040 we can just laugh at these simple Spaniards for failure 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:29.000 to understand virology and isolate themselves. Oh my god, we 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:32.600 know everything. Now look at us. We're not letting history 0:49:32.840 --> 0:49:37.560 fucking repeat itself over and goddamn over miles. I've been 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:39.880 quarantined in a bunker since the start of March, but 0:49:39.920 --> 0:49:42.480 I can guarantee that one thing that would never happen 0:49:42.560 --> 0:49:45.600 in America in the midst of a plague is people 0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:49.919 gathering in mass and clubs and beaches, um, while huge 0:49:50.000 --> 0:49:52.680 chunks of the country locked themselves down. That wouldn't happen 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:56.319 because we're not We're smarter than people were in nineteen eight, 0:49:56.480 --> 0:50:01.279 and we haven't been systematically dismantling our education system to 0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.560 create people who might not really give a funk about 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:09.440 things like us. I don't even know what systematically dismantling means, 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:11.560 and I'm just gonna roll along to my story now 0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:17.600 sounds like it now. The popular liberal solution uh to 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:20.239 sort of like within kind of the intelligencia, the kind 0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:22.319 of like more secular sort of people in like the 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:25.719 cities in Spain. Their solution to the plague was what 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:30.200 they called a sanitary dictatorship, a strict program of quarantine 0:50:30.239 --> 0:50:32.160 imposed from the top down to stop the spread of 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:35.840 the illness on all costs, and dutifully the newspapers of 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:38.279 Zamora try to explain the benefits of this system to 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:41.080 the people. But first they had to explain very basic 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:43.680 facts about contagion to their readers, including the fact that 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:46.600 the disease did not develop spontaneously as a result of 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:49.520 God being angry at you. Um, and a lot of 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:52.440 Again this is nineteen eighteen. A lot of local doctors 0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:54.959 weren't helpful in spreading the real news. And I'm gonna 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:59.239 quote again from pale writer one Luis Cebara suggested the 0:50:59.239 --> 0:51:01.200 imprint that is ease with the result of a build 0:51:01.239 --> 0:51:04.239 up of impurities in the blood due to sexual incontinence, 0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:06.760 a variation in the medieval idea that a moderate lechery 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:10.560 could trigger a humoral imbalance. So this guy is like, no, 0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:14.320 it's people fucking too much. That's what makes you. You 0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:17.320 fucked too much. God gets angry at you, and God's 0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:19.560 anger goes into your blood, as we all know. And 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:22.000 so the more God anger that builds up, it just 0:51:22.040 --> 0:51:24.200 starts boiling out of you in the plague. And that's 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.759 how it works. What they tell you, what they tell you, 0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:29.960 what that it's not God that's angry at who told 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:34.160 you that because you're coming, scientist, because you're coming, and 0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:36.680 you know what, I bet that person doesn't come or 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:40.480 has never comed. It's such a fucking week. I'm saying 0:51:40.480 --> 0:51:44.439 it right now. Dr Louis E. Barra never came, not once. Yeah. 0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:46.480 I like that. That's the first myth like they have 0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:48.680 to take down as like a like a press or 0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:53.160 like just like the experts. All right, I know this 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:56.400 flu is going around. It's really gnarly, and the question 0:51:56.440 --> 0:52:00.160 on everyone's mind is is it God? That's super We're 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:02.319 angry at us and that's what's happening, and we've got 0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.960 to say, no, that's not what it is. And it 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:06.840 just feels like a very heavy thing to have to 0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:09.719 lay on to people. Yeah, God's not pissed at you, 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:13.600 but you're still dying, and here's what we have to do. Yeah. 0:52:13.600 --> 0:52:15.360 I guess there's probably is an extent to which a 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:17.400 lot of people found it more comfortable to believe that 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:19.880 just God was God was you know, kind of drunken 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:22.279 angry again, as opposed to like, oh no, actually, this 0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:23.719 is just a thing that we're going to be dealing 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:29.000 with probably forever. Where sometimes horrible viruses creep up somewhere 0:52:29.000 --> 0:52:31.040 in the world and kill people all over the planet. 0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:33.719 And this is this is just the way it is, 0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:40.319 and there is no reason to it. Uh yeah. So 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.640 the good news is that the actual government of Zamora 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:46.879 listened to the experts, the experts who weren't idiots at least, 0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:50.640 and announced a ban on large gatherings until further notice. Now, 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:52.400 we in the USA are well familiar with how our 0:52:52.440 --> 0:52:55.400 own country people reacted when this started to happen um, 0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.680 and the same things occurred in Zamora, only instead of 0:52:58.760 --> 0:53:02.120 drunk college kids on spa break, the culprit was the 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:05.480 Bishop of Zamora. And I'm gonna quote again from the 0:53:05.480 --> 0:53:10.080 book Pale Writer. On thirty September, Bishop Alvario Eblano defied 0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:13.040 the health authorities by ordering a novena evening prayers on 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:16.320 nine consecutive days in honor of St. Roco, the patron 0:53:16.360 --> 0:53:18.799 Saint of Plague and Pestilence, because the evil that had 0:53:18.840 --> 0:53:21.880 befallen Zamoranos was due to our sins and ingratitude, for 0:53:21.880 --> 0:53:24.200 which the avenging arm of eternal justice has been brought 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:27.120 down upon us. On the first day of the novenna, 0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:29.000 in the presence of the mayor and other notables. He 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:31.680 dispensed holy communion to a large crowd at the Church 0:53:31.719 --> 0:53:34.839 of St. Esteban. At another church, the congregation was asked 0:53:34.880 --> 0:53:37.359 to adore relics of St. Rocco, which meant lining up 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:40.640 to kiss them. So plague breaks out. Let's get everyone 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:42.399 into a small room, have them all dipped their hands 0:53:42.440 --> 0:53:44.919 into the same water him them all kissed the same thing, 0:53:45.160 --> 0:53:52.960 Like everybody, take a sip out this cup to kiss 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:56.600 that thing. Is It is weird that like we got 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:59.320 over like all of our most of our prescriptions against 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:02.320 like X and intoxication, all the stuff that the Catholic 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:04.560 Church would have said people shouldn't be doing. But the 0:54:04.600 --> 0:54:07.200 same basic bad idea is the same. Like this group 0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:09.040 of people who thinks fucking is horrible, in this group 0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:10.960 of people who are all there to funk, are all 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:14.480 still gathering in a small area and touching their mouths 0:54:14.520 --> 0:54:22.200 to the same things. Fundamentally, the problem is the same. Yeah, right, exactly, 0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:24.799 But you're just you're doing the worst version of it, 0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:27.839 that's the least fun version of what ye doing. At 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:30.640 least some of these dead people had a good party. 0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:32.520 I don't know if I want to say that, but 0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:36.279 it does sound. Yeah, I don't know. There's again, there's 0:54:36.320 --> 0:54:40.040 no lesson here other than it's always a bad idea 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:43.120 to shove your mouth on the same things other people 0:54:43.160 --> 0:54:45.520 are in a cramped room in the middle of a plague. Yeah. 0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:48.400 At the very least is what are the what are 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:53.520 the scientists saying? What are experts saying things? And stay inside? Yeah? 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.719 No really, na, Na, So I fucked that. I'm going 0:54:56.800 --> 0:54:59.359 to suck a bunch of ship party with a bunch 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:02.160 of my friends. Yeah. Well, I think I told Robert this. 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:04.560 But the the kid that was like a TikToker that 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:06.760 was going around looking to its ended up in the 0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:12.160 hospital with coronavirus. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna I'm 0:55:12.160 --> 0:55:13.840 not going to spare a whole lot of my sympathy 0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:20.080 for that kid. Yeah yeah, keep moving, keep moving the 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:23.480 same day as that, let's all kiss the same thing party. Uh. 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:26.879 Sister Docitia Andreas of the Servants of Mary and Nun 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:29.760 died while treating influenza riddle soldiers of the barracks because 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:32.319 you know, she got sick from them. The bishop called 0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:35.440 her a virtuous and exemplary nun who accepted her martyrdom 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:38.160 by flu with grace and a plum um. He praised 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:40.759 her for sleeping only four hours a day during this period, 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:44.520 which I'm sure helped her immune system out a whole bunch. Now, 0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:49.640 the mother, Yeah, she was so dedicated to hanging out 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:51.640 with blague victims and then she died from it. It's 0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:54.920 a bummer, um. The mother superior of this nun's convent 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:57.879 was so taken by the sacrifices Sister Andreas had made 0:55:58.200 --> 0:56:00.360 that she urged all of the people of Or to 0:56:00.400 --> 0:56:03.480 turn out in large numbers for her funeral. And the 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:07.000 bishop immediately hopped onto this, and he announced that all 0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:11.359 attendees of this nun's funeral would be given sixty days indulgence, 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:14.399 which means like sixty days of get out of Hell 0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:16.960 free cards. Basically like sixty days that you like you 0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:19.160 don't gotta pay the church and like go to the 0:56:19.200 --> 0:56:21.719 go to the fucking priest or whatever to like you know, 0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:24.120 you don't have to like get your sins forgiven for 0:56:24.160 --> 0:56:28.960 sixty days because you've been you've been to this. So 0:56:29.760 --> 0:56:33.080 he promises everyone who shows up at this funeral, and again, 0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:38.680 a crowded and disease riddled uh cathedral that they'll all 0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:41.479 get out of hell free for two months. And while 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:44.000 the newspapers of Zamora or are all trying to warn 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:46.719 people to stay home, they're also required because they're backed 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:49.400 by the church, to print the notices of church events. 0:56:49.640 --> 0:56:52.080 So they're simultaneously telling people to stay home and being 0:56:52.120 --> 0:56:55.359 like huge plague party at the cathedral on this day, 0:56:55.400 --> 0:56:57.440 get out of hell for two straight months, you know. 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:03.920 So a whole bunch of Zamaranio show up to this 0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:06.960 this this funeral, and the bishop calls the funeral in 0:57:07.000 --> 0:57:09.440 the face of a state ban on gatherings. Quote one 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:15.560 of the most significant victories Catholicism has obtained. Maybe as 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:20.919 a stretch, Um, yeah, yeah, well, I don't know. They've 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:23.520 They're pretty they've They've had a lot of victories. We 0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:26.280 can argue they were victories that were won by doing 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:28.640 horrible things. But they didn't get all those billions of 0:57:28.640 --> 0:57:36.280 dollars in art from losing mm hmm. So as October began, 0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:39.560 journalists started to write about the weird fact that Zamarano 0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:41.800 seemed to be dying in much much higher numbers than 0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:44.280 the residents of other cities. They blamed the problem on 0:57:44.320 --> 0:57:47.640 poor local hygiene, and later that month the sanitary dictatorship 0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:50.240 they sought was finally put in place. People were fined 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:53.240 for throwing trash into the streets, Businesses were closed for 0:57:53.280 --> 0:57:56.160 failing to pass inspection, citizens were ticketed for letting their 0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:59.560 chickens roam free. But the Bishop of Zamora continued to 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:02.400 hold man and Zamoranos crowded into the church in greater 0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.520 numbers than ever before. In fact, as the flu claimed 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:07.800 more and more of their lives, the bishop repeated the 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:11.960 prayer pro tempore pestilential over and over again, and this 0:58:12.000 --> 0:58:14.680 prayer basically states the disease happens by the will of 0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:17.640 God and only God's mercy can end it, and so 0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:20.200 is huge peep numbers of the people who chanted this 0:58:20.240 --> 0:58:23.560 prayer started to sicken and die. The priests starts circulating 0:58:23.600 --> 0:58:26.480 a letter and which he claims that the continuing deaths 0:58:26.520 --> 0:58:30.400 are proof that science can't cure the illness. So he's 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:33.280 telling people to do the opposite of what the science says, 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:35.840 telling them only God can pick who gets sick. A 0:58:35.880 --> 0:58:38.400 bunch of these people ignore the advice of scientists and 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:40.320 get sick and die, and the bishop puts out a 0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:45.080 letter being like, see, the scientists are fullest shit, he writes, quote, 0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:47.720 observing in their troubles that there is no protection or 0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:50.400 relief to be found on the earth. The people distance themselves, 0:58:50.640 --> 0:58:54.440 disenchanted and turn their eyes towards Heaven. And of course, Heaven, 0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:57.120 as represented by the bishop, is telling them all to 0:58:57.160 --> 0:59:02.160 get into crowded uh spaces together and kiss the same thing. Yeah, 0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:04.480 he's yeah, you see what happened to those fucking idiots. 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:07.360 That's right. Let's keep the party going, baby. Yeah. So 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:10.320 four days after sending out this letter, on October, the 0:59:10.320 --> 0:59:12.960 bishop held a mass procession, bringing in worshippers from all 0:59:12.960 --> 0:59:15.760 around the countryside and cramming the cathedral fuller of people 0:59:15.760 --> 0:59:18.560 than it had been in years. Law enforcement attempted to 0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:20.680 stop this, pointing out that it was a clear violation 0:59:20.720 --> 0:59:23.440 of the ban on mass gatherings, and the bishop accused 0:59:23.480 --> 0:59:26.760 them of unjustly interfering in church business. The mass went 0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:29.280 on as scheduled, and in the days that followed, even 0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:32.120 more people sickened. And I'm gonna quote again from pale writer. 0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:34.919 As in other towns and villages, the decision was taken 0:59:34.960 --> 0:59:37.160 to stop bringing the church bells and eulogy of the 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:40.200 dead in case the constant tolling frightened people. But in 0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:43.760 other places funeral processions had also been banned, not in Zamora, 0:59:43.880 --> 0:59:46.320 where mourners continued to pass through the narrow streets as 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:48.640 the din of the bells gave way to silence. Even 0:59:48.680 --> 0:59:51.280 in normal times, coffins, white ones for children were a 0:59:51.360 --> 0:59:54.160 luxury beyond the means of most. Now, Wood for coffins 0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:56.120 was hard for anyone to come by, and the bloated, 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:58.840 blackened remains of the deceased were transported to their final 0:59:58.880 --> 1:00:01.520 resting place, draped own in a shroud. In an echo 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.840 of the ritual burning of incense to purify the altar, 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:06.120 gunpowder was sprinkled in the streets and set a light, 1:00:06.400 --> 1:00:09.640 and approaching funeral cortage could thus be perceived only dimly 1:00:09.640 --> 1:00:11.960 through the choking black smoke, mixed at times with the 1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:14.880 fog that rose from the Duero. In those cool autumn days, 1:00:15.280 --> 1:00:17.360 the town must have looked as if it were on fire. 1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:21.520 When historian noted, h, yeah, it would have looked like 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:24.040 the end of the fucking world, or like New York 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:28.360 Now maybe um so, just even like yeah. The inability 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:32.520 to like Bury, they're dead properly. Is just makes it 1:00:32.640 --> 1:00:36.240 such a fucking stark picture. It's pretty cool that in 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:38.320 the space of a month our president has gone from 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:40.960 where we got fifteen cases and soon they'll be zero 1:00:41.080 --> 1:00:44.320 to now the government is having to buy a hundred 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:48.400 thousand extra bodybags from Canada. Pretty cool evolution for all 1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:51.720 this to take. Like, yeah, I mean I think like 1:00:51.800 --> 1:00:56.120 maybe okay, I said a hundred thousand, maybe a little more. Uh, 1:00:56.160 --> 1:00:57.920 And I don't know who I'm gonna blame, but I'm 1:00:57.960 --> 1:01:01.680 just gonna completely play a casual. It's really yeah. From 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:07.400 it's fine too, we're out of corpse bags, okay. Yeah. 1:01:07.720 --> 1:01:09.520 So the town of Zamora had one of the highest 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:11.520 death rates in Spain, losing more than ten percent of 1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:15.120 its population in the month of October alone. Um so 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:19.240 that's a bad October. Um. Now, this was nearly three 1:01:19.240 --> 1:01:21.680 times the overall death rate in Spain at the time. 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:24.560 The Catholic Church and Zamora, working with for the Bishop, 1:01:24.840 --> 1:01:28.200 declared to this frightful toll to be God's vengeance. Quote, 1:01:28.320 --> 1:01:30.360 the evil upon us might be a consequence of our 1:01:30.400 --> 1:01:32.760 sins and lack of gratitude, and therefore the vengeance of 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:36.680 eternal justice felt upon us. When the plague finally left 1:01:36.720 --> 1:01:39.000 Zamora much depleted, the bishop cheered that he and his 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:42.840 fellow faithful had saved the town by placating God's legitimate anger. 1:01:43.600 --> 1:01:45.840 And the Bishop of Zamora probably counts as one of 1:01:45.880 --> 1:01:49.080 the most deliberately and fatally irresponsible religious leaders of the 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:52.120 entire Spanish flu epidemic. And of course he suffered no 1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:56.160 consequences as a result of this. Uh he did fine, 1:01:56.440 --> 1:02:00.400 So that's good. Wow, that's a good all that ship 1:02:00.480 --> 1:02:02.800 And then yeah, he did find it to the end 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:04.240 of the movie. He made it to the end of 1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:07.000 the movie. And he was far from alone in In fact, 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:09.200 I found a Pathos article that included just a bunch 1:02:09.200 --> 1:02:12.160 of digitized newspaper assets. Uh. And they kind of like 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:15.600 trace different American Christian leaders who were just as hell 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:18.160 bent upon leading their followers into disasters. This is not 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:21.680 just a Catholic thing. Uh. In Buffalo, New York quote, 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:24.160 while local churches remained and closed in accordance with the 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:27.920 mayor's proclamation, several congregations, however, have arranged to conduct outdoor 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:32.080 services tomorrow. The Courier listed several open air masses in St. Paul's. 1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:34.920 The Episcopal Cathedral planned to worship in Shelton Square with 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:38.000 the assistance of its full choir. The service will largely 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:41.080 consist of the singing of patriotic hymns and General Pershing's 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:44.760 message to the Churches of America will be read on Sunday, 1:02:44.760 --> 1:02:49.000 October thirteenth, nineteen eighteen. UH Dr W. S. Black, rector 1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:52.400 of the Episcopal Church, wrote that he was angry to 1:02:52.440 --> 1:02:54.880 walk through town and find the pool room in full 1:02:54.920 --> 1:02:57.919 blast with an ample supply of patrons. So he goes 1:02:57.920 --> 1:02:59.760 through and he sees that like pools and bars are still, 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:01.960 and so he was like, well, why should I keep 1:03:02.000 --> 1:03:05.160 my fucking church closed if other businesses are opened? Uh 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:08.440 He states, I believe in obeying the law of constituted authorities, 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:10.200 but I'm under pledged to the boys over there that 1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:12.800 customary times of service, certain prayers must be said. So 1:03:12.840 --> 1:03:15.120 he reopens his church in the middle of the plague, 1:03:15.480 --> 1:03:18.880 and people start attending church again. In Indianapolis, Indiana, Tin 1:03:18.920 --> 1:03:22.560 Black Apostolic Christians were arrested for attempting to worship despite 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:24.120 the fact that the Board of Health had told them 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:27.920 not to quote from their local newspaper. When the seven 1:03:28.000 --> 1:03:30.040 women and three men were taken to police headquarters, they 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:32.240 began talking in the unknown tongue, and it was some 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:34.680 time before the turnkey and matron were able to learn 1:03:34.760 --> 1:03:37.640 their names. So this sort of stuff happens all over 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:40.320 the world as a result of the plague um and 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:42.560 science being what it was back then. It's impossible to 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:43.800 say kind of how many of the dead and the 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:46.600 Spanish flew epidemic could trace their illness from an infection 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:49.160 they got in a church service that occurred after like 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:51.640 things got closed down. We just weren't keeping good enough 1:03:51.640 --> 1:03:55.680 track to do that. But thankfully, Miles, we have the 1:03:55.720 --> 1:03:58.760 coronavirus pandemic of to give us kind of a fun 1:03:58.840 --> 1:04:02.360 modern example for how virulent a single church service could be. 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:04.800 So that's that's gonna be fun. You would do that, Miles. 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:08.040 You wanna talk about that? Oh, you got the numbers, 1:04:08.280 --> 1:04:14.120 sure deal, buddy. On February sixty South Korea had thirty 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:17.080 known cases of novel coronavirus. Almost all of the people 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:20.040 infected had caught it from family or friends. On February eight, 1:04:20.440 --> 1:04:23.320 only thirty nine people had tested positive. One of them 1:04:23.520 --> 1:04:25.560 was a sixty one year old woman known as Patient 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:28.080 thirty one. She came down ill and decided to go 1:04:28.120 --> 1:04:31.080 attend her church anyway, and her church was the shin 1:04:31.200 --> 1:04:34.880 Honi Church of Jesus in Daigu. Two days after this, 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:38.439 on February hundred and four, South Koreans had the coronavirus. 1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:41.600 Fifteen of these confirmed cases were members of or were 1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:44.920 directly connected to the shin Shony church in some way. 1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:48.120 This woman attends the service while sick and knowing she's sick. 1:04:48.320 --> 1:04:52.439 Two days later, there's fifteen cases connected to that church. Now, 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:56.000 by March twenty, a month or so later, South Korea 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:59.320 had more than nine thousand confirmed cases, and the shin 1:04:59.360 --> 1:05:03.520 Shony Rich Cluster was responsible for five thousand and eighty 1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:06.080 of them, making up more than half of the total 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:09.320 cases in South Korea. All because of a single worshiper 1:05:09.320 --> 1:05:11.439 who had to get the Bible study when she was ill. 1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:21.120 Oh yeah, so that's yeah, okay, yeah, it's it's cool, 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:25.320 and I don't know, it's it's the Yeah. The irony 1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:27.919 of it all too is like, you know, people will 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.880 use religion as a thing that they're like in their mind, 1:05:30.920 --> 1:05:33.479 they may think, I actually, if if I go to church, 1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:36.160 I may feel better or something like that, but not 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:40.760 actually being totally aware or considerate or whatever the reason 1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:43.760 is of like what the risk is to other people 1:05:43.880 --> 1:05:47.960 and even yourself from just going out there. It's cruel, Yeah, 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:49.560 and it it has a lot to do with the 1:05:49.640 --> 1:05:51.800 nature of the specific church, but also a lot of 1:05:51.880 --> 1:05:54.280 churches do kind of the same things as church does, 1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:55.760 So I'm gonna get into that in a second. I 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:57.320 do want to note right now, since we started by 1:05:57.320 --> 1:06:00.480 talking about the Catholic Church, it took them too plagues, 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:03.200 but I think they kind of got it right this time. Right. 1:06:03.240 --> 1:06:05.640 The Pope was pretty early on like we're fucking no, 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:08.000 no, no no, no, none of this ship like state of funk. 1:06:08.040 --> 1:06:13.080 Hod this God understands like like we don't gotta be 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:16.840 all dipping the same Like no, um yeah, He's like, 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:19.320 because I got if we were, if we get rid 1:06:19.320 --> 1:06:20.960 of all the good ones, now, I don't know what 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:23.600 the funk we're going to be left with. So the 1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:27.920 Catholic Church at least broadly got there. So the third 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:31.360 plague is a charm, is what I'm saying. Mm hmm, yeah, 1:06:31.640 --> 1:06:35.320 we really makes sense. Like American Christian churches only have 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:38.160 one other plague, Like the next plague that comes around, 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:43.960 we'll get it, right, I think, yeah, if we follow, 1:06:44.040 --> 1:06:47.040 we'll see, We'll see. I'm really very excited for the 1:06:47.080 --> 1:06:49.480 next plague, Miles, you know, I mean a lot. I 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.400 think that's really what we're gonna learn. He's like, all right, 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:54.840 fourth plagues the charm. I think I'm hoping third plague 1:06:54.880 --> 1:06:56.920 is the charm. But we'll see, they'll keep you in 1:06:57.000 --> 1:07:00.240 more plagues, so we'll you'll be like, oh, look, there's 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:02.720 the only thing to learn from this is third plagues 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:08.760 the charm. Yeah, that's what it takes, is three. So 1:07:09.000 --> 1:07:11.080 I do want to talk about some peculiarities of the 1:07:11.080 --> 1:07:14.480 Shinshone Church of Jesus that explained why five they got 1:07:14.480 --> 1:07:18.280 five thousand people are more sick um. Yeah, so the 1:07:18.320 --> 1:07:21.919 Washington Post notes, quote, Unlike other churches, Shinshony makes its 1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:24.480 members sit on the floor tightly together during services and 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:27.160 neat military like ranks and file, says Lee hoo Yahn, 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:29.200 who left the church in two thousand and fifteen. We 1:07:29.200 --> 1:07:31.320 were not supposed to have anything on our faces like 1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:34.000 glasses or masks. We were traded to sing our hymns 1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:35.920 loudly and of course, in Korea, as in a lot 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:38.480 of parts of Asia, wearing kind of face mask is 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:41.160 a lot more common. Um. You know, it's just like 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:44.600 a thing people did more often in regular daily life. Uh. 1:07:44.600 --> 1:07:47.240 And the church had a specific prescription against that because 1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:50.200 they wanted to bring people together, which also in a 1:07:50.200 --> 1:07:53.720 time of illness, gets them sick together. Um. That doesn't 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:56.320 even make I mean, because in Asian culture, when you 1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:58.920 wear it, you notes to be considerate of other people. 1:07:58.960 --> 1:08:01.200 It's not because like I'm this because it's like wearing 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:04.840 a hood, but you're also Christianity in particular in a 1:08:04.880 --> 1:08:07.360 lot of parts like in Korea, also, it has like 1:08:07.400 --> 1:08:10.400 this kind of very powerfully um anti not I mean 1:08:10.440 --> 1:08:12.920 anti authoritarian might be the wrong word, but like anti 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:16.679 um countercultural thing, right, because Christianity is not as common 1:08:16.680 --> 1:08:18.200 in that part of the world. And I think this 1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:20.240 it's from what I'm reading this, it seems like that's 1:08:20.240 --> 1:08:22.200 a part of this is that they're they're like because 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:25.000 they're like, yeah, that's what they would do. Yeah, we're 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:28.360 trying to be connected and see each other's faces. Yeah, 1:08:28.360 --> 1:08:31.280 and miss Lee this this former member UM, who was 1:08:31.320 --> 1:08:33.479 interviewed by The Post, stated we were taught not to 1:08:33.479 --> 1:08:35.400 be afraid of illness. We were taught not to care 1:08:35.400 --> 1:08:38.599 about such worldly things like jobs, ambition, or passion. Everything 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:41.760 was focused on proselytizing, even when we were sick. So 1:08:41.800 --> 1:08:43.880 if you're sick and you're proselytizing, obviously you're going to 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:45.639 spread it more. So that's and that's how a lot 1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:48.479 that's why half of the cases in Korea, you know 1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:52.040 a month later, are from this church clusters, because a 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:54.040 lot of these people are going up ministering to people 1:08:54.080 --> 1:09:01.719 while they're contagious. Um. And yeah, it's it's it's bummer. Um. Now, 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:05.840 it's also not unique to South Korea. UM. I think 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:08.439 at this point we all remember that Louisiana pastor who 1:09:08.439 --> 1:09:11.080 defied the governor's order to not hold gatherings larger than 1:09:11.120 --> 1:09:15.759 fifty people and like repeatedly held gatherings, Pastor Tony spell Um. 1:09:15.800 --> 1:09:18.080 And he actually made the same justification. One of those 1:09:18.080 --> 1:09:21.360 guys from nineteen eighteen made uh. He stated, he told CNN, 1:09:21.360 --> 1:09:23.000 if we close every door in the city, then I 1:09:23.000 --> 1:09:25.280 will close my doors. But you can't say the retailers 1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:27.360 are essential, but the church is not. That is a 1:09:27.439 --> 1:09:30.559 persecution of the faith. Um. So that's a hundred two 1:09:30.640 --> 1:09:32.799 years later you got the same basic line of reasoning. 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:37.400 Spell also believes that the pandemic is like politically motivated. Uh. 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:41.679 There's another evangelical pastor, Rodney Howard Brown of Florida's Tampa 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:45.160 Bay Church, who called people pansies for being scared of 1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:49.080 the coronavirus. In yeah, he said his church would only 1:09:49.080 --> 1:09:52.200 close its doors when the rapture is taking place. Um, yeah, 1:09:52.240 --> 1:09:54.320 continuing to bust people in. I think this is the 1:09:54.320 --> 1:09:56.960 guy who got arrested. Later, there's at least one church 1:09:56.960 --> 1:09:58.200 you like, and it was like a kind of a 1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:00.280 show arrest, like he got he was in an out 1:10:00.920 --> 1:10:02.599 a little bit. I don't think it's gonna do anything 1:10:02.640 --> 1:10:06.080 to him. Um. But the scariest thing to me. So 1:10:06.400 --> 1:10:08.960 you can find many, many stories, And if I had 1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:11.519 a little more time, I probably would have collected a 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:15.040 longer list of different shitty individual churches and the things 1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:17.040 they've said. But we're all familiar with a lot of 1:10:17.080 --> 1:10:19.880 religious leaders have said horrible, stupid things about it. You 1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:21.920 can't get it if you pray or you know, my 1:10:22.040 --> 1:10:24.120 church isn't gonna Jesus will protect you. All these things 1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:26.760 that will lead people to take risks, or they'll just 1:10:26.800 --> 1:10:30.000 be like, you know what, I'm gonna command God right 1:10:30.040 --> 1:10:35.640 now to knock this off right now, Okay, but I 1:10:35.680 --> 1:10:39.000 need about sixty tho more dollars to come in, and 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:41.200 then I'll fucking I'm gonna tell God. I'm telling you, 1:10:41.240 --> 1:10:43.759 I'm gonna tell him. I'm gonna say, fucking hey, God, 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:48.200 quit it. You want that safe. This is all a problem, obviously, 1:10:48.240 --> 1:10:50.840 Each of these churches, these pastors, these people are are 1:10:50.880 --> 1:10:52.640 problems that we all have to deal with as we 1:10:52.720 --> 1:10:55.000 confront this virus. But I don't think that's not what 1:10:55.200 --> 1:10:58.320 scares me the most. Um. What scares me the most 1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:00.840 is what I read in a March fifteenth Washington Post article. 1:11:01.120 --> 1:11:03.200 Without guidance from the top, Americans have been left to 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:06.479 figure out their own coronavirus solutions. It includes interviews with 1:11:06.479 --> 1:11:08.080 a number of pastors. I want to quote from that 1:11:08.120 --> 1:11:11.640 now because I find this terrifying in a totally different way. 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:14.640 In Arkansas, the Reverend Josh King met with pastors of 1:11:14.680 --> 1:11:16.880 five other churches on Thursday to decide whether or not 1:11:16.920 --> 1:11:19.720 to continue holding service. The religious beliefs told them that 1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:22.160 meeting in person to worship each Sunday remained an essential 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:23.920 part of their faith, and some of their members signed 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:26.000 on to Trump's claim that the media and the Democrats 1:11:26.000 --> 1:11:29.000 were overblowing the danger posed by the virus. One pastor 1:11:29.040 --> 1:11:30.880 said half of his church is ready to lick the 1:11:30.920 --> 1:11:35.519 floor to prove there's no actual virus, said King and King, 1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:38.360 I think it seems like at least he understands that 1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:40.479 it's a serious threat and real, and he took some 1:11:40.600 --> 1:11:43.080 actions like to try to to to reduce, you know, 1:11:43.080 --> 1:11:45.280 the likelihood that dis congregation would get it. But he's 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:48.120 posted pointon like I don't know how to deal with this, 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.679 the fact that a huge and over my pastors, like yeah, 1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:52.559 you're willing to like lick the fucking floor to prove 1:11:52.600 --> 1:11:55.320 that there's no virus. That scares me more than even 1:11:55.360 --> 1:12:00.720 the pastors pushing this stuff, Like how widespread this information 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:04.760 is and how centralized it is. You know, I don't 1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:06.880 know if it's also like just feel like I can 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.559 grow out so hard that I won't get sick, Like, dude, 1:12:10.600 --> 1:12:12.479 yeah you want to fucking see, Dude, how much I 1:12:12.520 --> 1:12:16.840 believe bro, I'll lick this fucking floor. Dude, this coronavirus 1:12:16.840 --> 1:12:21.160 shit so Miles, that's the episode that I've got for 1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:26.360 you today. Oh boy, how are you feeling? Oh? I'm 1:12:26.360 --> 1:12:30.040 just just glad that I was raised in the house 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:37.880 that respects science. Yeah. I was raised in a house 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:43.759 that I thought respected science, uh until recently, until recently. 1:12:43.800 --> 1:12:46.679 But you know that's a lesson for another time. Yeah, 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:57.840 sorry to hear that. Um yep, so Miles, you want 1:12:57.880 --> 1:13:02.360 to plug anything, Yeah, I want to plug Daily Zeitgeist 1:13:02.439 --> 1:13:06.679 stand Fiance, which is that show I do with Sophia 1:13:06.720 --> 1:13:10.679 Alexandra who you've had on numerous times. We get high 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:13.680 and watch Fiance. So if you want to escape and 1:13:13.720 --> 1:13:19.559 watch trash TV with us and be faded, come through. Yes, 1:13:19.840 --> 1:13:25.559 so do that. Um go, uh, find people who are 1:13:25.560 --> 1:13:27.920 bleeding and touch their blood to your eyes. Oh no, no, 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:30.519 that's a bad thing. Sorry, I mixed up my my 1:13:30.600 --> 1:13:34.120 post it notes here. I'm so sorry. Not that. Um, 1:13:34.400 --> 1:13:38.639 stay in your houses and listen to podcasts exactly. Yeah. 1:13:39.240 --> 1:13:43.080 Um like our podcast, this podcast, which you can find 1:13:43.160 --> 1:13:45.599 wherever you found this episode of it. Just keep doing 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:53.679 what you're doing. It's perfect. Um. That's the episode. Bye, 1:13:54.479 --> 1:14:04.720 bye bye.