WEBVTT - Icebergs Ahead 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.720 This episode is sponsored by FX's Fleischman Is in Trouble, 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.440 starring Jesse Eisenberg, Claire Danes, Lizzie Kaplan, and Adam Brodie. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.639 The strama tells the story of recently divorced Toby Fleischmann, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.320 who dies into the world of app bass dating with 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.360 the kind of success he never had in his youth. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.280 Then his ex wife disappears, leaving him with their two 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.880 children and no hint of her return effectus. Fleischman Is 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:42.880 in Trouble, streaming November seventeenth only on Hulu. Good morning, peeps, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.400 and welcome to Okay Epp Daily with Meet your Girl 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.839 Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Because you know 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:55.360 the toe, COVID and mass shootings. Nonetheless, folks, I have 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.920 started to ask a question that you're going to hear 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:04.040 me ask today's guest Robert Jones Jr. Who is the 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.199 author of the Profits and if you remember we had 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.240 Robert on I want to say the beginning of this year. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.000 It could be the end of last year. Time. It's 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.399 a social construct. But the question that I'm asking, and 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.000 I just post it on TikTok and again, if you're 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.760 not following me on TikTok or on TikTok it's a 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.840 wonderful way to waste time. But also there's a lot 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:30.119 of really good political content on TikTok. So at Danielle 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.000 Moody Underscore is how you can find me there everywhere 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.640 else you can find me on social media at D 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.360 two cents. But the question that I've been asking is 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.320 do people feel like it is time to start seriously 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.240 considering leaving the United States? And I don't say that 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:56.600 to be hyperbolic or to come from a place of privilege, 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.600 because the freedom and the financial ability to be able 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.840 to pick up and leave is a privilege. And I 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.280 asked Robert, and I'm kind of asking a lot of 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.799 folks this Pride season, particularly those that are black and queer, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.280 about whether or not it's something that they're even considering. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:22.120 And a lot of people, I'm really surprised and also alarmed, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.440 are coming back to me and saying yes, that they 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.240 are considering leaving, that they are beginning to do research 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.120 on what it means to be an ex pat in 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.840 certain countries and communities. And for those of you who've 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.720 been listening to the show for a long time, you 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.960 know that my sister has been an ex pat for 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.080 the last twelve years. She's returning to the United States 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.080 in June for the first time to live in twelve years. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.160 She's coming back to a really different country than the 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.440 one that she left. The one that she left had 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.360 just elected a black man to be President of the 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:03.920 United States. The country that she left was advancing in 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.040 so many different ways, whether it had been marriage equality, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.680 or trans rights or women's rights. We've been moving forward. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.000 And of course, you know my sister Nicole, she comes 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.320 back and forth to the United States every year, so 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.400 it's not like this as a shock, but it's just 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:23.640 to say that while she's been gone and living abroad, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.680 the United States has changed drastically and changed drastically for 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.200 the worse. And you know, I am somebody who's not afraid, 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.400 as you all know, to tell the fucking truth and 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.240 to say, you know, there are some times when I'll 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.880 say things that I've said over the years which woke 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.600 af began because of Trump, began because I saw the 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:51.760 direction that this country was willing to head post our reconstruction. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.240 To point out, which is what I will refer to 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.000 as the Obama years, I started woke af because I said, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.040 people need to wake the flock up. Like these people, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.720 these white supremacsts, these Christian fundamentalists, these cult members, They're 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.200 not going quietly into the good good night. They are 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.040 going to go clawing and screaming, and they want to 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:20.760 cause as much fucking harm as possible physically, emotionally, mentally, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.719 and spiritually to those that they don't deem to be 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.800 human or worthy right to exist. And so when you 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.560 see that the direction that things have taken is it 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:41.400 has moved so far from rhetoric to policy to acts 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.320 of violence that we are now losing the ability to 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:50.760 keep track of because they are happening so frequently. What 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.040 alternative do you see? And so that's the question that 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.279 I'll ask Robert, and it's a question that I'm asking myself, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.480 and I'm having conversations with my own family about you know, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.640 I don't want you to think that I am, you know, 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:09.880 being crazy, or you don't think that things are going 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.200 to get this bad. But there was a small, significant 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:19.040 time period in which the people of Germany fled right 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.480 where they fled because they saw what was happening to 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.800 their country. They saw what Hitler was doing, and they 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.359 did not want to stick around to find out how 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.760 bad it was going to get. And those are people 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.839 who lived right, who didn't end up in concent dying 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.160 in concentration camps, or you know, being able to survive 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.120 that kind of torture. We're not going to have the 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.920 world intervene in the way that the world, first of all, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.719 took six million Jewish people to fucking die before the 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:57.000 world did intervene. And if we're probably honest about it, 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.480 it was more so about the economic prosperity of Europe 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.640 and the United States then it was the actual lives 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:10.160 of those that were being targeted Jewish people and others. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.520 So if we are now a backsliding democracy, if there 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:19.320 are only but a handful of actual strong democracies that 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.719 are left in this world, and we are seeing each 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.000 and every day and increase in mass shootings, our schools 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.800 are not safe, our places of worship are not safe, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.560 our grocery stores are not safe, the movie theaters are 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.800 not safe. COVID is still a thing, racial hatred is growing, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.120 and the Democrats who are supposedly in power are not 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.040 going to do anything about it. Then what is our recourse? 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.960 And for me right now, it is starting to think 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.480 about where else can I live and where else can 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:55.440 I thrive. My conversation with Robert, we will talk about 0:06:55.520 --> 0:07:00.760 James Baldwin and how James Baldwin left the United States 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.440 because there was going to be no way that he 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.360 was going to be able to write and create and 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.240 to even imagine what it was that we needed to 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.679 do as a nation if he had to be worried 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:19.880 about his own day to day survival. Right, So I 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.560 think about that as a creative I think about the 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:29.080 way I feel so weighed down now, and we haven't 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.320 tumbled all the way down the rabbit hole yet. We're 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.040 in a free fall, but we haven't hit the rock bottom, 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.960 And so I think about how exhausted I am, how 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.560 I'm worried about my own mental health, how I've been 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:48.240 sharing on this show and others about my mental and 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:53.119 emotional stability, an ability to continue to do this type 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.960 of work when it isn't just reporting the news, right, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.520 this is what we are all currently live from. So 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.560 there's no way to do this work and be detached 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:09.200 from it when every fiber of my being is attached 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.320 to our ability to have equity in this country, so 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.640 you know. Funny enough. On TikTok, I had asked you 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.120 the question as well. So many people responded and have 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:28.080 said that they are looking at Uruguay, South Africa. Portugal 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.600 came up a number of times, and I'm like, what 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.880 is it you all know about Portugal that I don't. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:38.160 I've been to Portugal. It was absolutely beautiful. I loved it. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.360 I love the food. The country is gorgeous. I don't 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.760 know anything about how to speak Portuguese. I don't know 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.280 anything about the treatment of black people in that country, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.200 their laws around LGBTQ people. I know nothing. But I 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.840 thought it was really interesting that in my comments section 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.280 that so many people had said Portugal. So if you 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.080 know something about Portugal, please do share if you why 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.920 you think it is a safe haven and why it's 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.160 on your list of places to go, if it is 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.080 in fact on your list. But folks, you know, the 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.160 more people that I talk to, the more worried I'm becoming. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.559 The more worried I'm becoming that I'm not hyperbolic, that 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:25.040 maybe this ship doesn't turn around right, that maybe we 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:29.199 actually are on the Titanic and what Democrats are doing 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.679 is just rearranging the deck chairs and not recognizing that 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:41.240 the iceberg is the Republican Party, and the water that 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.520 is being taken on by the Titanic, which is America, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:49.760 is white supremacy, and that it is everywhere, and Democrats 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:55.400 are refusing to acknowledge this very clear reality. Instead, I heard, oh, 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.240 we're going to focus on inflation and gas prices. Okay, 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.840 that's great, because those issues are important. But do you 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.400 know what else is important? The ability to go to 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.400 the gas pump and to the grocery store and not 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:12.040 be shot dead. Just an idea. So you know, folks, 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:19.960 I am worried. And you know, it's interesting because we 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.920 are watching the war still unfold in Ukraine at the 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.760 hands of Russia, and we're watching some of these people 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.880 that have decided to stay and fight and others that 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:36.520 have fled. And you know, those people that fled may 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:41.560 never see their country again. Right, They may never step 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.760 foot in Ukraine, and if they do, it will not 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.240 be the Ukraine that they left. And I'm starting to 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.440 think that way about America. And while we are not 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.720 under rolling tank attacks, we are under rolling policy attacks. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.679 And while some have referred as Michelle Goldberg did in 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.600 a recent New York Times off ed as US being 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.280 in a cold war with the Republicans. I don't think 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.360 that there is anything cold about this war. It isn't 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.920 just a war of words. They are instituting policy, and 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.760 they are ginning up their base, which is a base 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:25.959 of violent white supremacist to take action. Right. The insurrection 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.240 wasn't a mistake for them. It was plan B. And 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.119 Plan B is still on the table and still unfolding. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.040 So if we know all of these things to be true, 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.760 then what is going to be that thing that sends 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.000 us over the edge where we begin to see a 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:48.520 mass exodus from this country? And personally, I don't want 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.880 to wait until I have to sneak out of the 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:58.240 country because our freedom of movement is gone. So listen 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.400 to the conversation coming next with our friend Robert Jones, Junior, 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:10.080 author of The Prophets and brilliant, brilliant intellectual thinker of 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:17.400 issues of race and gender, sexual identity, orientation, and just 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.360 overall a humanitarian, someone who thinks about us as humans. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.720 But again I post the question for you, what would 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.559 it take for you to leave the United States? Is 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.640 it's something that you're even considering and if it is 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.400 in the back of your mind, what is it that 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.600 you think would move it to the forefront. Coming up next, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.880 my conversation with Robert Jones Jr. It's no secret that 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.240 the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:51.880 Bituation Room podcast, hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca free 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.280 Erntini for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.280 The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.280 to break down the issues in a way that won't 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.880 just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get The 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:08.000 Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and streaming on 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:16.280 YouTube and Twitch. Hey, I'm David. Plots of Slates Political Gabfest. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.880 As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.880 sort through all the noise and the news. Each week 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.960 on the Gapfest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.480 the headlines, break down the races, and tell you what 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:34.079 issues really matter. We do not always agree, we definitely 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.640 do not always agree, but we always deliver thoughtful debate 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.440 and we always have a good time. So subscribe to 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.920 Slate's Political Gapfest New episodes every Thursday. Folks, I am 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.920 so happy to welcome back to Woke a f friend 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:56.920 of mine in the social sphere. You probably know him 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.640 as Son of Baldwin on Twitter and on Instagram. Robert 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.720 Jones Junior is also the author of The Prophets and 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.800 one of the most profound voices I think that I 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.720 have heard and read in quite some time that paints 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:17.280 a picture of our humanity that I think is so 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:23.240 missing now. Robert, I don't even know where to begin, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.520 because so much has transpired since our last conversation. I 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.760 am grateful for the opportunity that we get to share 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.360 our thoughts in social media, you know, on different platforms, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:41.240 back and forth. But how are you feeling this season, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:46.680 this Pride season? What are you feeling as a black 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:52.120 queer man in America right now? About where we are 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.880 and who you are? Well, first of all, the legendary 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.800 icon Danielle Moody, thank you so much for having me 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.560 your show. I was telling you before that you, to 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.120 me are the vital voice of this generation. You are 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.560 saying the things that no one else is saying. You're 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.120 approaching the truth which with such rigor and vigor. So 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.240 thank you for all that you're doing. How I feel 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.240 as a black queer person right now is under siege 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:29.680 but also filled with the spirit of resistance. What sums 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.800 up my resistance? In fact, I just saw on Instagram 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.640 the US Marines posted a pride post. It was a 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:46.320 camouflage helmet with rainbow bullets attached to the side of 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:52.520 the helmet. And that is the danger of being a 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:57.160 black queer person in a white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy. They 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.480 find ways to make you like them so that your 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.640 what was normally your resistance becomes your complicity. And so 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:14.600 I'm fighting against that internally and externally. You know, I 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.160 saw the image. The image was shared with me, the 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.960 military image that you're talking about, and I said, my goodness, 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.560 the tactlessness. Right Like, First of all, you know, that 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.200 image was put up in Tulsa. Hadn't happened yet, the 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.160 shooting at the hospital hadn't happened yet. But I thought 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.840 to myself, this is not what my pride looks like. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.440 And this is not how you show um, how you 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.880 show your connectedness to community or even lift up those 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.960 LGBTQ plus military members. Right it's talking about Oh, it's 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.320 gonna be murder, but let's make it rainbow. I like, 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.800 in my mind, like, that's that's what I saw. It's like, oh, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.280 it's gonna be white supremacy. But let's disc go it 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:06.080 up a bit. And so I ask you, you know, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:13.120 pride initially started as a riot, right It was black 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:18.440 queer people, black trans women who were at the forefront 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.440 of the riot that happened at Stonewall here in New 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.400 York where we are, because they had had enough of 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:32.119 being beaten, of being abused by the state right that 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.760 they were supposed to protect them. And so what do 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.320 you feel about the way in which pride started those 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:44.560 many decades ago? And where you see that pride, the 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.479 concept of pride has arrived at the moment that we 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:53.320 are in now. When I think about Marcia and Sylvia 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.480 and all those elders and ancestors who threw bricks through 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.719 windows and resisted arrest and we're fighting in the streets 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.120 literally for their lives against a state that didn't even 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:10.239 recognize their humanity, I am inspired to do what I 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.960 can as an artist to remember uplift and remind the 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.919 society that what liberation looks like is not always pretty. 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.560 It's not always clean. It's not always holding hands and 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.720 singing songs. Sometimes it's punching your oppressor dead in his face. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.879 That's what it is sometimes. And you talk about this 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.920 a lot too, when when we're talking about how weak 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.360 the democratic opposition to the conservative agenda has been, how 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.320 no one is saying like what needs to be said. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.440 No one's saying the obvious, no one's telling the truth. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:56.360 The Democrats are playing tiddly winks while the Republicans are 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.760 playing destroyal monsters like it's it's just this weird kind 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.040 of thing. And so when I see now that pride 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:11.280 has become a T shirt, a party, rainbow floats, and 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:18.919 a commodified event, Marcia and Sylvia must be rolling in 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.919 their graves because the spirit of resistance seems to have 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:30.400 been co opted and turned into this thing where it's now. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:36.840 We will accept you, you homosexuals, you transgender people, if 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:43.640 you're more like us so, if you consume rapidly, if 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:49.359 you agree with our militarized agenda, global agenda, if you 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.840 uphold conservative values, if you buy into our way of 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.600 seeing the world, then we might because at any moment 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.639 we can turn on you, like this Supreme Court is 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:06.000 letting us know um and that is that is how 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:12.320 revolutions are destroyed, is because the people in power recognize 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.520 um a need and some of the people who are 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.920 oppressed for a little bit of comfort, Yeah, a little 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.639 bit of a reprieve yea, And they offer it to you, 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:23.560 They dangle it in front of you like a carrot, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.840 in exchange for your dignity and your right to be 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.880 a full human person as you are. And so I'm 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:41.840 utterly disappointed. Do you think that our desire for ease 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.240 in a certain way, right for ease in our lives? 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.520 And I'm not saying that we're not deserving, just by 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.800 virtue of our birth to live a life that is joyful, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.080 that is that is happy. But do you think that 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:59.600 this sense of ease has fueled the assimilation that has 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:06.440 us not see the current iteration of our society as 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.800 a point of resistance for our community? Right that that 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.320 that that's that that that and and if you if 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.320 you just have enough, right, because that's what that's what 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.000 you're saying, like that carried it's just enough. Right, It's 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:22.840 not too much, it's not it's sure, it's hell, it's 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.880 not the most It's just enough. For you, so you're 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.960 not drowning if your nose is sticking out of the 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:35.080 water and there is still air to breathe. And I'm wondering, 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.720 how do you foresee or is there a possibility for 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.840 us as the LGBTQ plus community to make a switch, 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:49.479 to make a transition from this assimilation and life of 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:56.040 ease to that of resistance. You see, you, you, you 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.120 tackle the you ask the essential question because this is 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.160 the danger of proximity to your oppressor. On the one hand, 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:09.240 you're close enough for them to destroy. On the other hand, 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.480 you're close enough to them so that you might escape 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.560 being destroyed because you're too close to them and they 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:21.840 don't want to possibly be a residual damage. So you're 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:27.679 in this weird place where you don't want to suffer. 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.719 You're tired of suffering, You're you're exhausted from suffering, and 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:36.439 you've been offered this brief moment of reprieve. So what 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.600 do you do? Do you continue to suffer or do 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.280 you take that brief moment of reprieve? Most people, I 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:45.119 wager will take the brief moment of reprieve, and that 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:49.320 is what the oppressors, the powerbrokers these robber barons count 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:53.800 on is that you are. They have so thoroughly exhausted 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.480 you that the minute they lay down a piece of 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:00.040 a pillow for you to lay your head on, and 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.280 you're gonna lay your head on it. It takes somewhat 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:11.840 of impeccable um personality to say, you know what, fucked 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.240 that pillow? Because if I keep fighting, eventually I'm going 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:20.320 to have the whole bed right. And there's there's too 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.879 few of us, you know. I was a couple of 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:29.960 weeks ago was in conversation with another thought leader that 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:34.600 I really enjoy speaking with, which is doctor Brittany Cooper, uh, 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:40.600 associate professor at Rutger's, And we were talking about you know, 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:45.440 her or her family, uh and her and gun culture 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:49.240 in Louisiana where she um was reared and raised and 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:53.600 her family still is, and the need for this kind 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:59.280 of protection for black people, black family's, black property because 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:04.800 of the consistent, unrelenting threat of white supremacy and what 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.400 that looks like in different states and cities and places 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:12.280 in rural places and cities. And so I'm curious as 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:18.520 to your thoughts about every time Robert, there is a 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.760 mass shooting, gun sales in this country go up. The 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:26.600 only time that we ever had any kinds of genuine, 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:31.320 sensible gun regulation was when the Black Panthers decided to 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:36.720 exercise their right to bear arms. What do you make 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:43.679 of black people, black queer people as well? Thinking about 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:48.160 considering the fact that we've moved out of the talking 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:52.760 phase of this project, and that in order for me 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:58.480 to ensure to some extent my own safety, and those 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.679 are the people that I love. If my oppressor is 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:07.840 bearing arms, isn't it my responsibility to do the same. Absolutely, 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:16.760 I feel that we cannot. We can. No longer we 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:23.879 shall overcome our oppressor into thinking of us as civilized 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.120 human beings. I just saw a clip of James Baldwin 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:32.320 speaking of queer icons where he said, you know what 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:37.959 white people mean by progress is how fast I become white. 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:40.480 And then he goes on to say, I've drank my 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.960 share of dry martiniz, I've proven myself civilized in every 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:47.639 way that I can, and you still don't see me 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.000 as civilized. So I might as well act like a nigger. 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:55.800 And what I interpreted that to mean was you want 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:57.920 to pull a gun, then I'm gonna pull a gun. 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:00.800 Two I'm gonna pull two guns just to show you. 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.720 So if the only language you can speak is violence, 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.360 even when I'm speaking to you with peace, you leave 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:14.720 me no choice. And if we are in a situation 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:22.520 increasingly such that their feel feels like our choices are 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:29.960 shrinking and are becoming limited and scarce, where do you 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:36.080 foresee Robert us going right? Because my thing, what I've 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.199 been saying, and what I say on my videos, what 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:42.000 I say on these shows, is that a pressure, the 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.840 oppressor goes for the low hanging fruit first, the people 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:49.439 that they believe are the unwanted. So you're gonna go 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:53.600 after trans youth, right, you big bade straight cis gender 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:57.440 white man are going to go and attack children, right, 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:00.359 You're gonna go and attack policies of people, not the 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:04.000 entirety of the LGBTQ community, but the part that we 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.399 are still quote trying to figure out right that doesn't 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:11.200 really fit anywhere, which is a transgender community. And so 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:17.200 if that is the case, then it's like, and they 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:22.159 keep picking off marginalized, marginalized, it's not too long before 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.479 they get to everybody else. And so how do you 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:29.280 forstee through your art through all of these different mediums 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:33.000 waking up the public to the threat that is now 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:38.880 our doorstep. One of the horrible things about being an 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:45.480 American is the profound narcissism of that identity come on 0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:50.480 that we cannot see outside our own experience. For nothing 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.840 in the world, we lack empathy, and so we don't 0:27:55.000 --> 0:27:58.600 understand a threat until it's on our own doorstep. We 0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:00.600 could see it across the street and swear it's not 0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:02.480 going to come our direction. We could see it in 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:04.480 the street, we could see it walking up the sidewalk, 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.240 and we won't say anything until it's right at our doorstep, 0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:09.680 and then suddenly we're like, oh my god, what happened? 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:15.560 What I foresee in this country is rather bleak. I 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:18.480 think it's not going to be five or ten years 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:22.119 before the United States as we know it crumbles, and 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:27.720 that it's replaced by a fastest oppressive openly so because 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:29.399 now it's kind of like on the on the d 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:34.600