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Speaker 1: Worrying. Today's episode Canad spoilers for the fourth episode of

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Speaker 1: Daredevil Board again on Disney Plus. Hello, my name is

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Speaker 1: jas Conception and I'm Rosey Night and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: x ray Visions, a podcast where we dive Dee, the

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Speaker 1: Dear famborite shows, movies, comics of pop culture. Coming to

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Speaker 1: you from Myra podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes

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Speaker 1: a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, plus news on

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Speaker 1: the weekends.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode Bread, we're talking about dead Evil bort

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Speaker 2: a good episode one oh four Bread. How'd you feel

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Speaker 2: about that?

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Speaker 3: Bread? And a reminder that our book for this month

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Speaker 3: is The Merchant and the Alchemist Gate, the first short

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Speaker 3: story in Ted Chang's amazing short story collection Exhalations. Very

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Speaker 3: happy to see how many of you have picked this

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Speaker 3: one up, so find yourself a copy and read along

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Speaker 3: before our episode on March twenty fifth. If you want

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Speaker 3: to send us any questions, you can put them in

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Speaker 3: the discord or email us official XRV pod at gmail

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: We start with Hector's effects getting bagged up his white

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Speaker 1: tiger suit his magic ambulance. Matt takes charge of the

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Speaker 1: stuff and goes to the Emmy. He gets the cause

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Speaker 1: of death, single gunshot went to the head. And then

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Speaker 1: Hector's niece Angela shows up, and she is, of course

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Speaker 1: very angry. She believes, and I think Matt believes us well,

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Speaker 1: that this is a dirty cop operation. Understanding Matt, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that they were pissed they lost the case and so

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Speaker 1: they took matters into their hands. That's certainly what she believes,

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Speaker 1: and I think Matt thinks that's possible as well, considering

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Speaker 1: that they did try to kill him, try to kill

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Speaker 1: the witness recently. So Matt tells her, listen, I'll look

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Speaker 1: into it.

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Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, I do think it's interesting

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Speaker 3: we properly meet Angela here in the comics. Angela does

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Speaker 3: become the next generation of White Tiger. I would be

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Speaker 3: interesting if we could see her in some kind of

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Speaker 3: Young Avengers type situation in the comics that Alex Malieve

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Speaker 3: Brian Michael benistetevil stuff that is definitely like a big

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Speaker 3: influence on this From the late nineties, that is where

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Speaker 3: she first appeared in issue fifty eight of volume two,

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Speaker 3: she was much like sexier and a more classic kind

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Speaker 3: of adult superhero. But I do think that there is

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Speaker 3: an interesting connection here to other street level heroes because

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Speaker 3: of the heroic legacy of kind of the White Tiger

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Speaker 3: comes from Kunlun, and so I do think there's some

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Speaker 3: kind of interesting connections here, and I would be very

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Speaker 3: intrigued to see them at adapt this in a different

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Speaker 3: way that does not rely on her being kind of

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Speaker 3: a federal agent, and it's more about her youthfulness. Also,

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Speaker 3: I did feel like when Matt was hugging her, he

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Speaker 3: was kind of very much putting the suit and the

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Speaker 3: magical amula and the bag near her. So maybe we'll

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Speaker 3: see that, not in this season, but maybe maybe Dana

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Speaker 3: was season two, maybe a future Marvel project.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cool to see.

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to potentially see the legacy of White Tiger

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Speaker 3: carry on.

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Speaker 1: We see in a short scene right after his Muse,

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Speaker 1: the series of Killer Muse carrying what is a victim,

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Speaker 1: certainly a victim his leaders into the subway tunnels where

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Speaker 1: the Muse will carry out his gast really work. Meanwhile, Dan,

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Speaker 1: assistant assistant to the Mayor, Dan is just out partying

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Speaker 1: with Bebe and at first you're like, why is beebe

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Speaker 1: partying with this guy? And then you realize that Bebe

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Speaker 1: is just pumping this guy for information.

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Speaker 3: He is getting absolutely played on, like a whole different level.

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Speaker 3: And throughout this kind of great sequence you really get

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Speaker 3: to see how Boebe is kind of manipulating him for

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Speaker 3: what she believes to be the bag.

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Speaker 1: Right, so you know she's getting on him. You know,

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Speaker 1: Dan's like, well, I can't I can't drink, I can't

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Speaker 1: do ketymine tonight because I have to go.

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Speaker 2: I have to go.

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Speaker 3: I know I had a young writer on this ship.

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Speaker 3: Kevin dropped like that was that was really guys. Let

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Speaker 3: me just say Kennyman has been around. Kean has been

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Speaker 3: around since the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Like, K holes are a thing.

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Speaker 2: K holes are real.

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Speaker 1: If you were out in the streets in the nineties

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Speaker 1: and two thousands K holes were there, you've been falling into.

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Speaker 1: So bb is getting on him for what you know,

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Speaker 1: you could be on the on call for the mayor

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Speaker 1: at all hours. You have more people Wilson, Fisk and

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Speaker 1: Dannis like, well, you don't understand. We've got this huge

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Speaker 1: thing coming with the port. Wilson has this whole recycling center.

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Speaker 1: He plans to take the city recycling in garbage over

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Speaker 1: to the private sector and like make it more efficient.

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Speaker 1: He's going to hire contractors. It's great idea. He's going

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Speaker 1: to turn the port into this whole garbage recycling cent

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Speaker 1: I think it's brilliant. And meanwhile Bbie is trying to

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Speaker 1: keep Dan out so he can.

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Speaker 2: Keep Yeah in fun.

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Speaker 1: But Dan decides to leave. Matt gets a call from Kirsten.

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Speaker 1: She tells him we've got your your next case. It's

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Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Leroy Bradford. He was

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Speaker 1: arrested for shoplifting some stuff from a local board data fiddle, faddle,

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Speaker 1: and we're taking this pro bonum at therapy. Heather asks

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Speaker 1: Fisk and Vanessa listen. I know this is tough, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's time, and I think it's time to

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Speaker 1: just discuss the affair with Adam and Fisk does not

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Speaker 1: want to, but Vanessa is like, I've been waiting for

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Speaker 1: this because, let me tell you, Adam's hands. He was

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Speaker 1: an artist. He had these strong hands.

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Speaker 2: It's creative way. I don't know why she's him up

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Speaker 2: like that, like that was never gonna end well for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh Adam, babe, he's.

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Speaker 1: Such a talented artist. And Fisk is like me, I

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Speaker 1: never thought about cheated Vanessa. Ever, by the way, I believe,

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Speaker 1: I believe, I believe, I'm one hundred percent believe it.

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Speaker 2: There's nobody more fable to his wife and the in

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Speaker 2: fiction or.

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Speaker 3: Reality that the world's biggest wife guy like, no question,

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Speaker 3: one hundred million.

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Speaker 1: And Vanessa, meanwhile, I was saying, well, whatever the case

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Speaker 1: may be, you were not.

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Speaker 2: Here, you were you left me, and that was the betrayal.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you didn't know if you were dead. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you were alive. It was like no contact.

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Speaker 1: You were just off the face of the earth. And

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Speaker 1: it reminded her of her dad, who was a traveling

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Speaker 1: businessman habitually cheating on her mom. And Vanessa says, She's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm concerned that Wilson could hurt Adam, and

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Speaker 1: Wilson then admits to having quote a dialogue, just a dialogue,

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Speaker 1: dialogue with him, totally fine, just a conversation, no violence.

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Speaker 1: He says, like, I'm not that guy anymore. And then

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Speaker 1: after the session, Heather, picking up on the vibes I think,

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Speaker 1: very responsibly takes vanessa'side as like are you safe? Do

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Speaker 1: you feel safe? For you fine? And she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. She is a web.

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Speaker 3: Vanessa's like, look, the reason I had an affair is

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Speaker 3: because there's many things that my husband would do, terrible things,

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Speaker 3: extreme things, illegal things.

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Speaker 2: And she's like, but and me, he just can't do it.

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Speaker 3: I'm away wife. Guy like, it's not gonna happen, Heather.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate your good parraprising hair, but I gotta say

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Speaker 3: you're putting yourself in that cross hairs. Wilson Fisk is

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Speaker 3: not gonna want to hear about that.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to Akick cat Break and then we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back after a word for Worces. Yeah, and we're

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Speaker 1: Matt Matt at the police station meets his client, Leroy Bradford.

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Speaker 1: Mister Bradford is not impressed with Matt. He does not.

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Speaker 1: He's thinking, I got a blind lawyer. They gave me

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Speaker 1: a bad lawyer. I can't believe this. He denies stealing

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Speaker 1: the fiddle Fattle. Matt is like, there's a lot of evidence,

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Speaker 1: and Bradford is like, well, I paid for it last week,

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Speaker 1: and Matt's like, that's not how it works. There's a

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Speaker 1: fun line here where Bradford's like, could it have been

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Speaker 1: a scroll? And Matt is like no, and then Bradford's like, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking a place, so you need to go actually.

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Speaker 2: Do your job.

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Speaker 1: So Matt mat, Yeah, Matt goes to the DA and

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Speaker 1: turns on the I am handsome Matt Murdock charm dude.

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Speaker 3: The way that women just fall for him in this

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Speaker 3: show is maybe the most comics accurate thing.

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Speaker 1: I love yes, because yes, very comic.

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Speaker 4: In the comics, like women love Matt murdocc and yeah,

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Speaker 4: he is literally like flirting with a woman trying to

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Speaker 4: get which you know what, use your flirtation skills for

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Speaker 4: good whatever, But it.

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Speaker 2: Is so funny this sequence.

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Speaker 3: You're just like, Okay, I guess you are charming her.

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Speaker 2: You're doing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He At one point he's like says something about

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Speaker 1: he references dating life, and she's like, I think I'd

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Speaker 1: like to know more, she says, or something like that.

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Speaker 2: He's like he's like, uh, you know, my other senses

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Speaker 2: are heightened, and she's like, well, I would like to

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Speaker 2: know that. And also he's like okay.

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Speaker 3: He's like, you're gonna be harsh to me on Latvian

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Speaker 3: Heritage Day, the day of your heritage, and she was

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Speaker 3: like what how do you know?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: How do you know that?

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Speaker 2: How do you know that?

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Speaker 3: Also, fantastic exposition there for because later that will become

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Speaker 3: a blot point.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, just such a fun scene. And he does

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Speaker 2: a good job charming.

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Speaker 1: So he gets ten days served, not probation, but ten

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Speaker 1: days served, which you know, I think all parties agreed

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Speaker 1: like this is pretty good.

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Speaker 3: It was meant to be thirty five days and then

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Speaker 3: Matt got it down and really it would just be

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Speaker 3: a few days, so it seems like wet time.

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Speaker 1: Served with the current time served. He runs into dirty

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Speaker 1: cock Powell and all but accuses Powell and friends of

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Speaker 1: murdering murdering Hector Ayala, but Powell denies it, and Matt

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Speaker 1: can tell from his heartbeat that he's telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: Powell dirty cock Powell then threatens Matt with disbarment and

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Speaker 1: a beating, and Matt says, okay, well the first one

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can do. In the second one,

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Speaker 1: bring more.

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Speaker 3: Guys, dude, that's such a good line. When he was like,

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Speaker 3: I guess you'll have to bring more than the last time, is.

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Speaker 2: Like I beat the shower of two of you.

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Speaker 1: WHOA Yeah, incredible obsessed I Love You got a red

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Speaker 1: hook where Fisk is showing his team his plans for

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Speaker 1: the privatization of the port. Fisk doesn't care about the

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Speaker 1: red tape and all the city council stuff and all

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Speaker 1: the okay is that they need to get He's just like,

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Speaker 1: let's just do it. Sheila's like, well, shouldn't we think

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Speaker 1: smaller because we've got this mob war that's like kind

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Speaker 1: of brewing, and we need to start like a construction

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Speaker 1: project with some panels and some studies first to show

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Speaker 1: that you're serious to the city, and we need to

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Speaker 1: get this on the docket of the public advocate. And

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Speaker 1: Fiscus like, okay, do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, okay, it sounds realistic. Like I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: wait for this show.

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Speaker 1: Buck Cashman warns Fisk meanwhile that you know, Sheila's right

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Speaker 1: about that mafia ward, it's going to be a problem.

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Speaker 1: Leroy argues with Matt he's not happy about the ten days.

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Speaker 1: He wants probation still, and Matt is like, listen, this

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Speaker 1: is as good as it gets. And then Leroy goes

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Speaker 1: on a impassioned monologue about just how difficult it is

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Speaker 1: to be entangled in the legal system. And be poor,

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Speaker 1: and Matt is like, Okay, you're right. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was good because I like the way that Matt

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Speaker 3: kind of Matt was still full of like the vim

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Speaker 3: and vigor of charming a lady and getting it down,

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Speaker 3: and to Matt it's just kind of paperwork. And then

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Speaker 3: he has the pal interaction where he's feeling pretty good

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Speaker 3: and then goes back to Leora and he's like, h

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Speaker 3: shouldn't this be like a thank you counselor, and they

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Speaker 3: were is like fuck you, Like I'm gonna tell.

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Speaker 1: You like this is I'm actually eating some stealing.

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Speaker 3: Some fucking fiddle battle. He's like, they cut my benefits off.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was such a great sequence and I

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Speaker 3: kind of loved how at the end Matt just had

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Speaker 3: to be like, yep, you're right. And the kind of

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Speaker 3: realization and recognition of what Matt can't do within the

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Speaker 3: kind of system was really good.

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Speaker 1: Fisk goes on his meat mayor Fisk Handshake tour to

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Speaker 1: like local schools and then, as you mentioned, the Latvian

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Speaker 1: the New York Latvian Association, where at every stop they're singing,

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Speaker 1: we built this city to Wilson Fisk, and he is

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Speaker 1: becoming more and more well, he's stream while the BB

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Speaker 1: report dropped it's skating peace with uh you know, Intel

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Speaker 1: sourced directly from assistant to the Mayor Dan about how

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Speaker 1: Mayor Fisk plans to use tech companies to undercut the

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Speaker 1: Department of Sanitation as as part of his plan for

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Speaker 1: Red Hook. And this is the result again of Dan

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Speaker 1: blabbing while on Kendeman and alcohol. Fisk is really really

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Speaker 1: really pissed. There's an all hands meeting. Dan takes full

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Speaker 1: responsibility and says, looks and I was drunk, I was

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Speaker 1: in a k hole. Is like, maybe you shouldn't tell

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Speaker 1: me about that part of it, and then he basically

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Speaker 1: is like listen, I will do I am your loyal soldier.

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Speaker 1: I will kiss your feet, I will do whatever it

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Speaker 1: takes to make you happy. And then Wilson Fisk is like, well, okay, fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's like, boh, if you do it again,

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Speaker 2: I'll kill you. But I will literally kill you.

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Speaker 3: Also interesting evolution hip because Sheila and Fisk I definitely

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Speaker 3: was not sure about her place in the Fisk administration,

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Speaker 3: but because she takes responsibility and says, hey, whatever Dan did, like,

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Speaker 3: blame it on me. It's not on him, like I'll

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Speaker 3: take the full Suddenly, Fisk is like, wait a minute.

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Speaker 3: These are two people who I think I'm gonna have

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Speaker 3: on my team and see how this goes. Also, I

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Speaker 3: love that Phoebe's headline was just mad garbage and then

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Speaker 3: he keeps it. He's like, maya garbage like garbage man

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Speaker 3: like bb that she was catching it gone to his

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Speaker 3: skim babe, like good job.

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Speaker 1: At night. Matt goes to the site of Hector's murder

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Speaker 1: and using his heightened senses, figures out where the shellcasing

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Speaker 1: would have rolled and he finds it, and he finds

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Speaker 1: that it's engraved with a Punisher logo. So Matt goes

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Speaker 1: to see Frank at Frank's hideout, which Matt. I love

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Speaker 1: that Matt knows where it is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, He's just like this motherfucker is like a Janita somewhere,

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Speaker 3: and Matt's like, where he is.

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Speaker 2: That's my pal, that's my friend.

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Speaker 5: Let's go to a quick break and we've right back. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and we're back.

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Speaker 1: So at the Punisher's hideout, which is like in the

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Speaker 1: bowels of some buildings somewhere where I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: he's either working at day job as a janitor or

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Speaker 1: his is being hidden by janitarial staff or something.

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Speaker 3: Because he's like a janet's jumpsuit. But also the place

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Speaker 3: is just full of like AK forty seven.

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Speaker 2: There's a gun.

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Speaker 3: Everywhere, Like it's really like no one's like coming in

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Speaker 3: and being like yea, yeah, this guy's the super nothing

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Speaker 3: wrong here, like no.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's like no, nobody's coming down there to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: my radiator is the work, like clearly because he's and

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Speaker 1: it's not just the guns and the ammo, but he's

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Speaker 1: got like a whole one wall is just like a

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Speaker 1: board of like targets, like full of people like he's

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Speaker 1: gonna kill yeah, And Matt and Frank pick up right

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Speaker 1: where they left off from their previous interactions, arguing about,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a philosophical way about the nature of

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Speaker 1: the work they do. Man, it's like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: kind of need your help, and the city in fact

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Speaker 1: needs your help, Like couldn't you start doing more like

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Speaker 1: crime fighting stuff? And Frank is like fuck that shit,

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, by the way, have you seen this?

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Speaker 1: And then he shows him the bullet casing. I love that.

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Speaker 1: Matt immediately knows it's not Frank.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I thought that was really great where

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Speaker 3: it was like they already kind of had this recognition

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Speaker 3: of these, you know, to quote them bullshit famboys. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like that's that's something that has been going on, exists,

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Speaker 3: And both of them are awhere like it wasn't him, Like,

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Speaker 3: that's not what Frank does.

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Speaker 1: So Matt's like, you know some of those fan boys

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Speaker 1: or cops, and Frank's like, okay, what's that. That's not

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Speaker 1: my problem. Frank is completely uninterested in doing crime fighting stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then he turns the tables. He says, like, why

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Speaker 1: did you really come here? What's the real reason? I

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Speaker 1: think you came here? Because you want permission from me

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Speaker 1: the guy who actually kills the bad guys to kill

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Speaker 1: the bad guy, the bad guy being Dexter Bullseye, who

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Speaker 1: killed your good friend Foggy say his name? Why don't

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Speaker 1: why can't you even talk about Foggy? Why you know,

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Speaker 1: why are you not? Like? What about what about Fogster?

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Speaker 2: What his name name?

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Speaker 1: Matt breaks down, gets very upset, punches Frank and then

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Speaker 1: apologizes and he's like listen in a very an almost

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Speaker 1: like frantic, tearful, emotional explosion, says Dax cat Life. He

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Speaker 1: got multiple life terms. The system worked, but it's clear

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Speaker 1: that like the way he's saying it, he doesn't even really.

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Speaker 2: No, and he's like crying.

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Speaker 3: I thought this sequence was so good, and I had

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Speaker 3: to say it builds on something that I think this

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Speaker 3: show is doing immensely well, which is recognizing and accepting

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Speaker 3: the past of the Netflix shows but not letting them

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Speaker 3: overtake whatever this new kind of vision they have is.

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Speaker 3: Because you know, obviously Foggy IRFP to that man, he's dead. Karen,

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Speaker 3: we've barely seen her. She's in San Francisco now, and

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Speaker 3: now we get this really great interaction between Matt and Frank,

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Speaker 3: and you know what, we might never see Frank again

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Speaker 3: this season.

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Speaker 2: You never know. And I kind of love.

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Speaker 3: How self assured they are in making sure that if

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Speaker 3: these people are here, it's not just for a cameo.

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Speaker 2: It's part of this wider journey that Matt is on.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, Frank's not wrong. Also, Matt kills

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Speaker 2: people all the time.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I don't believe it traumatic, not canonically, but

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Speaker 3: like in the show when we see the traumatic bris

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Speaker 3: injuries he's given.

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Speaker 2: For sure, but no, no, but I love this.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the strongest part about the Punisher and

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Speaker 3: dead evil stuff they set up before and it was great.

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Speaker 3: And I think that this also, you know, in a

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Speaker 3: writing kind of success, but also in the power of

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Speaker 3: Charlie Cox's performance. This is directly throwing back to that

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Speaker 3: moment where we see des get life and Matt looks

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Speaker 3: like furious in the court room. It's almost because it's

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Speaker 3: like it's not enough, you know, for him. So I

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Speaker 3: think that that is going.

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Speaker 2: To be a huge part of where we go from here.

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Speaker 1: I also think to your previous point about like do

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Speaker 1: this does this show have the chops? I think that

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Speaker 1: this conversation shows that they continue to have the chops.

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Speaker 1: The Punisher is it is a character because of his

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Speaker 1: use of guns, because of the fact that his symbol

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Speaker 1: in real life has been a opted by cops. Is

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Speaker 1: complicated and I think the Netflix series was maybe not

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Speaker 1: ready to deal with that reality, and this show is

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Speaker 1: dealing with it in a very well rounded, clear eyed way,

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Speaker 1: complex way that I think is really interesting. Like I

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Speaker 1: could listen to these guys argue for the entire episode.

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Speaker 1: I think this is I think it's a really interesting

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Speaker 1: conversation about the nature of heroism in this world. That

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Speaker 1: night over wine, Fisk tells Vanessa, whoa wait, we should

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Speaker 1: get back together.

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Speaker 2: We should do it.

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Speaker 3: We should do it.

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Speaker 2: I love I would never do anything to hurt.

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Speaker 3: You specifically, but other people I would have many times.

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Speaker 2: Has got me a big problem for us. Actually.

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00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,360
Speaker 1: Matt, meanwhile, having date night of his own, he comes

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Speaker 1: home to find Heather is there. She was worried about

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Speaker 1: him because he was out crime fighting or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: like investigating and doing what he was. They have this

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Speaker 1: wonderful again the writing really good, this wonderful, real, real

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Speaker 1: feeling exchange where she's like, you know, it's I know

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Speaker 1: that you can handle yourself, but also it's like, because

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Speaker 1: you're blind, this other side of me comes out. It's like,

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Speaker 1: weirdly that's protective. I'm not that person, but I worry about.

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Speaker 3: You, and I like, I really like the moment where

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Speaker 3: she's like, if you're just out doing your thing and

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Speaker 3: I'm doing my thing, I'm not worried.

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Speaker 2: But the moment I stay.

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Speaker 3: Over and you don't come back, suddenly I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 3: what happened? Did he walk into traffic? Like she says

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Speaker 3: all this early silly stuff, but there's so much truth

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Speaker 3: it feels real. I have to say, Look, it's kind

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Speaker 3: of interesting to see, you know, a superhero show where

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Speaker 3: the morals and the kind of relationships are often very

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Speaker 3: black and white, very This is a very situation ship type.

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00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, being to a.

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Speaker 3: Relationship where it's like this, you know, he's flotting with

400
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 3: the other women. He is, you know, still probably got

401
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 3: feelings for Karen, but this woman's staying in his house,

402
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 3: she's thinking about it. Just felt very real to me,

403
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 3: in the same way that that Matt and Frank conversation

404
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 3: felt real. I think the writers in this show just

405
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Speaker 3: keep delivering.

406
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: They've done a great job. Matt puts on the charm

407
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: and the pair have the kind of fully satisfying love

408
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: making session that you don't often see, even suggested on

409
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 1: Disney Plus, and this is certainly suggested. This is certainly

410
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: suggested here. Matt, unable to sleep after goes to the

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Speaker 1: roof to visit his Dearedevil stuff. He's got his whole

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Speaker 1: like Dearedevil. Yeah, he's got like many masques.

413
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Speaker 2: It's his little dad devil back cave.

414
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Speaker 3: He kind of goes through and I feel like there's

415
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Speaker 3: this I just felt like they do a really good

416
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 3: job of kind of spending time with him. He looks

417
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 3: at all the different masks, he looks at the differ

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00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: from versions of the suit. He's kind of having that

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00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: conversation in his head of which hero do you want

420
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 3: to be? And they don't need a voice over, they

421
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 3: don't need to tell you. It's just so clear by

422
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 3: by what he's doing. And it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I also love the I mean, this is a small point,

424
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 1: but like the dichotomy of Frank underground Matt above ground

425
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Speaker 1: on the roof, like they both have their little store

426
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: rooms of stuff but in different places, like kind of

427
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: mirroring their status as heroes and anti heroes. And so

428
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: Matt goes to his stuff and then he trains a

429
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: little bit clearly, Yeah, training.

430
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Speaker 2: With his like cool mace or something like. It was

431
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: like it was like it was like a chain.

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Speaker 3: And Uppi and chain and yeah, Rabba as very finish him,

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Speaker 3: almost very kill Bill, very kill Bill. Also as well,

434
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: another great kind of dichotomy and reflection here which has

435
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 3: been going on throughout the show is kind of Vanessa

436
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 3: and Fisk and their closed off relationship, their lack of honesty,

437
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 3: and then we get see Matt and head that having

438
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: this real honest conversation. And then as Matt is training,

439
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: we kind of cut back to Fisk and see how

440
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: he deals with his issues.

441
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: So we go to Fisk, who is one thing I've noticed.

442
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: I think that one of the ways and I think

443
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: this is so smart that they are marking the evolution

444
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: of Wilson Fisk from guy trying to be just the

445
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: straight up mayor to the kingpin again, is his food

446
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: is getting more opulent.

447
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 2: At the beginning, he's just eating like a little plain, a.

448
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: Little strip of something and some vegetables on the side,

449
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: and it's a very small and now we see him

450
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: digging into like this pile of pasta with sausage laid

451
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: over the top. It looks really good. And he's down

452
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: in his basement eating next to a cage in which

453
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: he keeps Adam.

454
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: Well, this answers our question why he did somebody kept

455
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: in prison. We were right about that, but I have

456
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: to say I thought it was just gonna be a

457
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 3: gang Bossel.

458
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: I did not perceive that. I did not know.

459
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: I did not see that coming. It's clear Adam's been

460
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: there for a long time. Adam is beauty, he's I

461
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: don't know if his hands are looking great, and Wilson's

462
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 3: just sitting there eat opulent, eating his little dinner, just

463
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: looking at him like.

464
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 2: Yes, you shouldn't have slept with my wife.

465
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm like sorry, And Adam is clearly starving as well, Yeah, yeah,

466
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: I need food, like and he's like, yeah, it's just

467
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: because like eating this big pile of pasta.

468
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: He's like, not happening for you.

469
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 3: And also as well, obviously a great point here, which

470
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: is like Wilson's idea of what it means to be

471
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: honest to Vanessa and be open is never gonna really

472
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: lead to anything positive.

473
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: That's right.

474
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: But say, I did think it was.

475
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: Pretty hilarious when in the moment of the therapy where

476
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: Vanessa and Fisk were both being asked by Heather like

477
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: where's Adam now, you know, they both say I don't

478
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: know exactly the same time. So I'm also like, hey,

479
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe this is what gets them off.

480
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 3: Maybe Adam's down there like maybe this was the compromise.

481
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: You're not gonna kill him, but you can keep him prisoner.

482
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

483
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: Those two are really messed up, But Wilson, you gotta

484
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: get this has gotta stop. You gotta I guess i'd

485
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: say let him go, but that's never gonna happen.

486
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: So you've got to.

487
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Happen, Wilson is. I mean, you're exactly right in that.

488
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: I think this is his version of telling the truth,

489
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: which is like this very legalistic. Well, I'm not that

490
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: guy anymore. There's been no violence, which is like, clearly

491
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: you've been beating on the guy. But like, but he

492
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: said he.

493
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: Wouldn't kill them.

494
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's alive still, So yeah, Wilson clearly still the

495
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: man he always was. Then we go to the subway

496
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: tunnels where Muse is draining the blood of a victim

497
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: for use in his street art. This is how Muse

498
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: paints his murals using the blood of his victims. Then

499
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: we cut to the credits. Another great episode.

500
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: Of Okay, so is Muse?

501
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: Now we've kind of gotten about I look at the mosque,

502
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 3: which I love this design. I think it looks great.

503
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Is Muse?

504
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 3: The kids who came to had the Glenns signing and

505
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: said I need help.

506
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: I think so too. I think that's what the kind

507
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: of implication is.

508
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: The energy was like the insistence, the air of desperation.

509
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: It I think clearly it's going to be that.

510
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: I'm very interested to see if because this is again

511
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: taking from the Charles Saw stuff, which we know is

512
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: a really big influence here with a Ronghani legend. You

513
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 3: probably most recently people know him for doing Bazaka with

514
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: Keanu Reeves and Matt kint.

515
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: This is really interesting stuff because.

516
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 3: In the comics, Muse is an inhuman and also Muse

517
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: like kills in humans, and this is very much around

518
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: the time that Wilson is rising to powers mayor and

519
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 3: his establishment of anti vigilante laws, which we are seeing,

520
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: so this all.

521
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: Tracks with the comics. I'm just interested to.

522
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: See if they continue the route of Muse bringing bigger

523
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: and more violent art to life, because he begins, as

524
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: we see here, with this blood mural and they find

525
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: out it has the blood of hundreds of people. But

526
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: next he kind of poses dead in humans. It gets

527
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: a lot more Hannahbalish, and then soon it's a very

528
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: very interesting kind of reveal of what his powers are.

529
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 3: Essentially a power to be overstimulated, which I think is

530
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: the worst superhero you could ever deal with. But yeah,

531
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: I'm I'm very interested to see what happens because I

532
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: think there could be some interesting routes from the comics

533
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: where kind of Muse and punishes stories intertwine and become

534
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 3: part of Fisk's anti vigilante kind of stuff. But I'm

535
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: just interested. I didn't think that we would get Muse.

536
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: I know we'd seen him in the trailer, but I

537
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: mean pre that, I just thought, this is a really

538
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: dark storyline, and I think maybe this is where they're

539
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: gonna real Obviously, end of episode three with Hector being

540
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: shot in the head was just as brutal as anything

541
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: you'll see on the Netflix show. But I wonder if

542
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: this is where they're gonna go. Oh, actually, we can

543
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: go even darker, Like we can do something scarier, we

544
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: can kind of Hannibal Lek to this a little bit.

545
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued. I like mus I was a fan of that.

546
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: There was a lot of plotline around this time that

547
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: was similar. DC also had a hero like a villain

548
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: like this, a kind of our super villain. I'm interested

549
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: to know what that kind of represents, maybe a reaction

550
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: to Banks or something.

551
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but yeah, I want to.

552
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 3: Know where this goes next because it feels like it's

553
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: gonna go really, really dark, but this show has done

554
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: a good job of surprising me and kind of balancing

555
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: the charm of the MCU with the bleakness of the

556
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: Netflix shows.

557
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: In the next few episodes of X ray Vision, we

558
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: have our second book club meeting. Make sure you read

559
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: the wonderful first story in Ted Chang's Exhalation collection of

560
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: short stories. And then on Wednesday we'll be reacting uh

561
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: oh finale season two of Severn's Hopefully it won't be

562
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: another two plus years before we get another fingers Crossed

563
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: season of that. And then Thursday we're gonna react to

564
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: the Double Daredevil drop of episodes one oh five and

565
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: one oh six. That's it for this episode.

566
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 3: Thant for listening, Thank you for listening, Goodbye, Goodbye read.

567
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie

568
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

569
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

570
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

571
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Fay Wax.

572
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

573
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

574
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and Heidi,

575
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: our discord moderator,