Speaker 1: Personals with Morgan Juelsman.
Speaker 2: It's the second episode of Take This Personally. I'm Morgan.
Speaker 2: You may know me from the Bobby Bone Show. I've
Speaker 2: always found that it's easier to get through some of
Speaker 2: life's challenges when we feel less alone, which is really
Speaker 2: why I started this podcast. I'm hoping you can connect
Speaker 2: to one of my guest stories or their pieces of advice.
Speaker 2: This week, I have on doctor Solomon first, who is
Speaker 2: beyond an expert with over a twenty years of experience.
Speaker 2: She studied psychology and women's studies at the University of
Speaker 2: Michigan and she also received her PhD in counseling psychology.
Speaker 2: Than I have on country artist Kylie Morgan, who is
Speaker 2: a friend and came on to share some of the
Speaker 2: most vulnerable moments in her life that led her to
Speaker 2: wear her career is now. I'm so excited to talk
Speaker 2: to doctor Solomon right now. Thank you for joining me,
Speaker 2: and I want to get your expertise on several topics,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna dive right into the deep in to start,
Speaker 2: I want to talk about trauma and growth. Do you
Speaker 2: feel like people have to go through almost traumatic things
Speaker 2: to feel that growth or do you think they can
Speaker 2: still feel that growth without having gone through something terribly bad.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of gentle awakenings right of just
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, as I remember years and years
Speaker 1: ago Oprah Winfrey talked about, you know, sometimes when we
Speaker 1: get the first brick upside our head, you know, the
Speaker 1: first little inkling that we are creating a pattern for ourselves,
Speaker 1: it's painful. If we don't pay attention to the brick
Speaker 1: up side the head, then we will get the entire
Speaker 1: brick wall crashing down upon us. And I think some
Speaker 1: of us, yeah, some of us can get a little
Speaker 1: bit more like, no, no, well I got this. I'm good.
Speaker 1: I don't need help. For some of us, the you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of wake up call has to be louder,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to be that way. As you're saying, Morgan,
Speaker 1: that there's you know, I think we can resource ourselves
Speaker 1: at any point in time. It's you know, one of
Speaker 1: the things I do is I teach an undergraduate class
Speaker 1: at Northwestern University called marriage one oh one. Well, those
Speaker 1: students aren't going to get married for you know, any
Speaker 1: number of years, but there's lots that they can learn
Speaker 1: about understanding who they are and what they want and
Speaker 1: need in their intimate relationships. So I like, I'm here
Speaker 1: for therapy early and often I'm here for you know,
Speaker 1: gentle lessons. But I hear you. So did you have
Speaker 1: to learn some things in your life the hard way? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I from boweying in high school to
Speaker 2: some abusive relationships. I've been through the trenches, and I
Speaker 2: don't wish that upon anyone, but I also look back
Speaker 2: and it helped me to become who I am today
Speaker 2: in almost an unfortunate series of events. But now and
Speaker 2: today I look at that, and when people ask how
Speaker 2: and why, I'm like, well, this is where I came from,
Speaker 2: and so of course I would hope I'm better from that,
Speaker 2: But you don't hope anybody ever goes through that so.
Speaker 1: Well, and you didn't have to become better for it.
Speaker 1: You could have taken all those painful experiences and you
Speaker 1: could have said, see, that just proves that life is
Speaker 1: unfair and I'm a constant victim and nothing good is
Speaker 1: going to happen to me. Right, that you could have
Speaker 1: taken those experiences and allowed them to make you hardened
Speaker 1: and bitter, and you know, you could have experienced like
Speaker 1: a loss of vitality, and you could have just kind
Speaker 1: of stayed stuck there. And I hear that you have
Speaker 1: done what you needed to do in order to use
Speaker 1: those experiences to fuel you into purpose and passion and
Speaker 1: capacity for joy.
Speaker 2: So that's yeah, absolutely, I've loved that for me, but
Speaker 2: I would love that for other people too. So, you know,
Speaker 2: do you have any good ideas for people who maybe
Speaker 2: have gone through that and they may find themselves in
Speaker 2: a very negative space.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think part of it is teasing
Speaker 1: apart that thing happened to me versus that thing defines me.
Speaker 1: I think part of what creates the conditions for people
Speaker 1: to get stuck is they can fuse the things that
Speaker 1: happened to them with their identity. And all of us
Speaker 1: are more than any given painful experience. I believe each
Speaker 1: of us is an expression of divine consciousness. Whatever you know,
Speaker 1: each of us belongs to this huge collective of humanity
Speaker 1: and as part of something like far, far, far bigger
Speaker 1: than any one of us. And so to me, whatever
Speaker 1: pathways people use to kind of remember that, whether it's
Speaker 1: movement or music or dance or conversation or prayer or
Speaker 1: volunteer work, like whatever. Those gateways are that help people
Speaker 1: remember like, oh I belong, I belong and I'm part
Speaker 1: of something bigger than me. That I think is what
Speaker 1: helps us get clear that the bad experiences we live
Speaker 1: through do not define us.
Speaker 2: The older I get, I've been in some relationships at
Speaker 2: this point, and just the older I get, the more
Speaker 2: I realize everybody comes with things. You're just going to
Speaker 2: have to accept certain things that you want. Nobody's going
Speaker 2: to come perfect. There's going to be baggage along the way,
Speaker 2: no matter what.
Speaker 3: How that looks is.
Speaker 1: Up to you.
Speaker 2: And I just want your kind of advice on for
Speaker 2: so many people because relationships, regardless if they were even good,
Speaker 2: maybe they weren't as bad as mine in the dramatic
Speaker 2: sense that they were. They're just hard and they can
Speaker 2: be traumatic and very hard to move on from. So
Speaker 2: how do we jump into another relationship after, say, our
Speaker 2: heart gets broken and things are hard. How do we
Speaker 2: go into a new relationship and find that level of
Speaker 2: vulnerability again?
Speaker 1: I think we don't spend nearly enough time talking to
Speaker 1: people about healthy relationships and healthy sexuality and all of
Speaker 1: that good stuff. But we also don't spend enough time
Speaker 1: talking with people about how to break up well, how
Speaker 1: to integrate after laws, how to start over again. I'm
Speaker 1: finding myself doing more and more of that work, even
Speaker 1: with therapists when I'm presenting at therapist conferences, and very
Speaker 1: often I'm talking with therapists about how to help clients
Speaker 1: break up well, heal heartbreak start again, because I think
Speaker 1: that there is not something that therapists necessarily have been
Speaker 1: trained in doing, and it's what you are talking about.
Speaker 1: I think heartbreak and relationship endings hurt for all kinds
Speaker 1: of reasons, including literal brain science. Our brains code emotional
Speaker 1: pain in the same way that our brains code physical pain.
Speaker 1: So heartbreak hurts because it hurts. It is painful, And
Speaker 1: I think we sometimes have these like misguided coping mechanisms
Speaker 1: where will say to ourselves, it shouldn't hurt like this
Speaker 1: because they were no good for me anyways. It shouldn't
Speaker 1: hurt like this because it was only a three month
Speaker 1: long relationship. It shouldn't hurt like this because whatever my
Speaker 1: friends didn't like them anyways. Well, all that will do
Speaker 1: when we invalidate ourselves, all that's going to do is
Speaker 1: make our healing journey take that much longer because we
Speaker 1: aren't even letting ourselves start the journey. We're invalidating ourselves
Speaker 1: out of the journey versus letting ourselves grieve the loss
Speaker 1: of that relationship. Even if we're the one who ended it.
Speaker 1: You can be the one who ended a relationship and
Speaker 1: still grieve the loss of that relationship. You're losing the
Speaker 1: future you imagined with that person, and you are having
Speaker 1: to let go of what that relationship meant and the
Speaker 1: experiences you had and every grief. You know, grief is synergistic,
Speaker 1: meaning that the grief in the loss of this relationship
Speaker 1: is going to awaken the grief of the loss of
Speaker 1: my father or my grandmother, or that move that we
Speaker 1: had to make, or that tragedy that happened in my community.
Speaker 1: Like griefs chain together. For as hard as it is,
Speaker 1: there's also that opportunity in a breakup to just have
Speaker 1: that season or that chapter of loss and letting ourselves
Speaker 1: just be very much present to that without shrinking it,
Speaker 1: minimizing it, rationalizing it, moving through it, getting the lessons
Speaker 1: and then starting to kind of come up out of it.
Speaker 1: That's a process that if we don't constrict it, it
Speaker 1: will just happen. We will come through it, and the
Speaker 1: goal is to come through it open hearted, rather than
Speaker 1: to come through it kind of scabbed over and hardened
Speaker 1: and cynical. And I think the way that we do
Speaker 1: that is by just letting the loss be exactly the
Speaker 1: length and width and height that it is.
Speaker 2: I love that, and I think it's so true. There's
Speaker 2: so many people that I know a lot of my
Speaker 2: friends who I've seen them hurt from two month relationships
Speaker 2: compared to each sureer relationship sure, And I think there's
Speaker 2: something to be said that we bond with people so differently,
Speaker 2: and that there is no one size fits all for
Speaker 2: everything that's right. It's important to share and reiterate because
Speaker 2: I just don't think we hear that enough.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. It was a podcast episode that I
Speaker 1: had done We're One of the points that I made
Speaker 1: is some of us who've had heartbreak, some of us
Speaker 1: who have survived trauma. One of the things that sometimes
Speaker 1: happens is that we no longer fall in love. We
Speaker 1: become the kind of people who step into love, and
Speaker 1: that can feel sad, like I miss the fact that
Speaker 1: you know, when I was younger, before I new hurt,
Speaker 1: like I know hurt. Before that I would fall head
Speaker 1: over heels and I don't do that anymore. Rather than
Speaker 1: seeing that as something that's wrong with us, just allowing
Speaker 1: that to be what it is and to know that
Speaker 1: there is not as you're saying, there is no right
Speaker 1: and wrong way to bond with somebody, and stepping into
Speaker 1: love is beautiful. There's a wisdom to that, there's a
Speaker 1: gentleness to that. There's a way that when we step
Speaker 1: into love, we aren't short circuiting our nervous systems, right,
Speaker 1: so it can be a kinder process that that's okay.
Speaker 1: I want people to know that that's okay.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm someone who's sitting here listening to this,
Speaker 2: and I'm like preach yes, because I have done both.
Speaker 2: I have been the woman in the enticing, intoxicating relationship
Speaker 2: and I've also now been in this incredibly healthy relationship.
Speaker 2: And i can tell you on this side of things,
Speaker 2: on the healthier side, it is so much more rewarding
Speaker 2: and enjoyable than the intoxicating situations that we see in
Speaker 2: movies that we think we want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't perhaps feel intoxicated, but what you do
Speaker 1: feel is I imagine safe and calm, and like your
Speaker 1: nervous system is like taking a big exhale, and that
Speaker 1: can feel really different.
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you too about the ways
Speaker 2: that we invalidate ourselves. I'm guilty of it. I know
Speaker 2: a lot of people are of saying others have it worse.
Speaker 2: How do we get away from doing that and feeling
Speaker 2: that way?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well the only way that I know
Speaker 1: how to do it is with something in something that
Speaker 1: comes from psychology, which is called dialectics. So dialectics. You know,
Speaker 1: our research has shown that a lot of our emotional
Speaker 1: resilience and emotional well being rests upon our ability to
Speaker 1: hold a dialectic. And a dialectic is a space where
Speaker 1: competing truths, where two things are true at the same time,
Speaker 1: two things that seem opposite are actually both true. I
Speaker 1: had a terrible day and I am blessed. Those both
Speaker 1: are true. We can be blessed and suffering that both
Speaker 1: those things can be true. I don't have to prove
Speaker 1: that I have it worse than anybody else in order
Speaker 1: to be entitled to my suffering, and the way that
Speaker 1: I do that is by holding both my grief and
Speaker 1: my gratitude my courage and my fear, the fact that
Speaker 1: I'm whole as I am and I'm forever a work
Speaker 1: in progress. Like these things that just seem like they
Speaker 1: can't possibly both be true at the same time are
Speaker 1: a's part of the thing that makes being alive so complicated.
Speaker 1: So I think if I have one of those moments,
Speaker 1: I certainly have had those moments where I am just
Speaker 1: in the suck, I am just like suffering and struggling
Speaker 1: and wanting to host a big old pity party for myself,
Speaker 1: and then I'm just like, ah, I'm being ridiculous because
Speaker 1: there are people who have you know, quote unquote actual problems.
Speaker 1: Both those things are true. Yes, I am absolutely blessed
Speaker 1: and I am absolutely you know, burnt out or struggling.
Speaker 1: So that's where I try to go, because You're right,
Speaker 1: if I cannot validate my own suffering, you can bet
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to be able to validate the
Speaker 1: suffering of people around me. And then I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be very fun to be around because I'm going
Speaker 1: to be judgmental and dismissive, you know, and like roll
Speaker 1: my eyes at people. And that's not going to be
Speaker 1: a recipe for healthy relationships.
Speaker 2: And being self aware is kind of one of the
Speaker 2: big buzzwords right now in psychology and therapy. Visit living
Speaker 2: up to all the hypes? Should we be focusing so
Speaker 2: much on that? And what does that look like? If
Speaker 2: somebody hasn't ever heard the word self aware and they're like,
Speaker 2: what do I need to.
Speaker 3: Do with that?
Speaker 2: What would be the first steps you'd tell someone to
Speaker 2: get through this first phase to be on that journey.
Speaker 1: Self awareness is my that's my jam, That's how I
Speaker 1: spend really all day every day is supporting people in
Speaker 1: different ways to understand with curiosity and with compassion who
Speaker 1: they are and why they are the way that they are.
Speaker 1: And I think it's it is essential if what people
Speaker 1: want is high quality relationships, whether that's relationship with partner,
Speaker 1: relationship with their family members, relationship with their kids. We
Speaker 1: have to be willing to get curious about why we
Speaker 1: are reacting the way we are reacting in any given moment,
Speaker 1: Like that's just the work of it. So I think
Speaker 1: the first step is to just begin to notice how
Speaker 1: we're talking to ourselves, notice when we have rise and
Speaker 1: fall of different emotions during the day, Like just getting
Speaker 1: really curious and starting to view our thoughts and our
Speaker 1: feelings and our behaviors as data. It's just data that
Speaker 1: we then can sit with and wonder about. I think
Speaker 1: one of the things, you know, you started off by
Speaker 1: asking about, kind of what's changed in the last couple
Speaker 1: of decades the whole field of self help. As I
Speaker 1: was growing up in the eighties, my mom always had
Speaker 1: a stack of self help books next to her nightstand.
Speaker 1: So self help isn't new necessarily, but we're living in
Speaker 1: this really exciting time with social media of podcasts, where
Speaker 1: there's so many resources that somebody can bring in and
Speaker 1: I think just listening to different podcasts that are about
Speaker 1: relationships or about psychology, or reading, you know, following different
Speaker 1: Instagram accounts there like daily small doses of self awareness work.
Speaker 1: I think those are really gentle ways to start, especially
Speaker 1: if someone's not interested in committing to therapy or something
Speaker 1: like that. But there's little things we can do each
Speaker 1: day to just begin to check in with ourselves.
Speaker 2: How do you suggest I think it's hard for people
Speaker 2: to receive feedback. There's criticism and there's unkindness, but then
Speaker 2: there's feedback, and because of social media, there is also
Speaker 2: this other side that we've seen this very cruel side
Speaker 2: of the world, so it's really easy to loop in
Speaker 2: feedback with criticism and negativity. So how do we kind
Speaker 2: of look at something like, Okay, this is feedback to
Speaker 2: help me, versus this is criticism to hurt me.
Speaker 1: That's right. I think that's a very very good point,
Speaker 1: And it's all about the strength of the relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will not take feedback from somebody where I have
Speaker 1: a sense that there's an ulterior motive or a hidden agenda,
Speaker 1: or a lack of willingness to be in dialogue with me,
Speaker 1: in community with me. I won't take feedback from somebody.
Speaker 1: If I don't have a s that somebody has my
Speaker 1: back or has my best interest at heart, or who
Speaker 1: really can feel the core of me as a good,
Speaker 1: decent person, they don't get the right to give me feedback, right,
Speaker 1: you know. And that so that I think it really
Speaker 1: is about the strength that's I want us to be
Speaker 1: cultivating the kinds of relationships where there's enough trust that
Speaker 1: then feedback feels like a generous gift rather than an attack.
Speaker 1: And that's what there was. Right with my husband, I
Speaker 1: trust that he's in my corner. I trust that he
Speaker 1: has my back. I trust that whatever he wants and
Speaker 1: needs to say to me is in the service of
Speaker 1: everyone in our family feeling safe and understood and held
Speaker 1: and celebrated, rather than to take me down or to
Speaker 1: prove some point or to diminish me.
Speaker 2: When I do think in that same area, there's also resentment.
Speaker 2: We see a lot of relationships that people feel and
Speaker 2: resentment builds up over so much time for new couples,
Speaker 2: for even couples that have been together a long time,
Speaker 2: how do you avoid that resentment rut that everybody falls into.
Speaker 1: Resentment is a big one, and I think resentment happens
Speaker 1: when we don't have that ability to give and receive feedback.
Speaker 1: Right If I can't give, if you've shown me that
Speaker 1: you are a closed door and that you will not
Speaker 1: take my feedback, and everything I try to bring up
Speaker 1: with you you flip it back on me, then that's right.
Speaker 1: The absolute side effect is going to be that I'm
Speaker 1: going to build a resentment because I'm biting my tongue
Speaker 1: because it feels really difficult to talk to you. So
Speaker 1: resentment is going to be the side effect. It may
Speaker 1: help you in the moment because you don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with the difficulty of me giving you feedback. So
Speaker 1: in some ways you might be like, sweet, this is
Speaker 1: easy because she's not riding my ass, she's not telling
Speaker 1: me what I've done wrong, quote unquote. But so the
Speaker 1: moment might feel like it's been solved. But the problem
Speaker 1: is I'm building up a well of resentment because you
Speaker 1: aren't open and available to dialogue. Now, it's incumbent on
Speaker 1: me that when I do have feedback for you, that
Speaker 1: I do it in a deeply loving way where I
Speaker 1: convey to you, Morgan, you are my heart, like I
Speaker 1: am deeply invested, and here's what I love about how
Speaker 1: things are going, and here's what I value, And I
Speaker 1: really make sure that I am forward and explicit about
Speaker 1: all of the ways I can see you putting an effort,
Speaker 1: trying hard, like ways in which you know I show
Speaker 1: you that I have your back. And then I say
Speaker 1: to you, I want to give you this feedback because
Speaker 1: because of how much I love you, because of how
Speaker 1: much I want the space between us to feel good
Speaker 1: and safe and close.
Speaker 2: It sounds like along these same lines that communication is
Speaker 2: so important, but it feels like that's the bottom layer
Speaker 2: of all of this communicating is where it starts.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, oh, absolutely yeah. And you know, communication is more
Speaker 1: than just saying words. It is talking about something, talking
Speaker 1: about my internal experience, my thoughts, my reactions that I'm
Speaker 1: having in my relationship with you, saying in a way
Speaker 1: that communicates also empathy and benefit of the doubt. Right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I I spend quite a bit of my time
Speaker 1: in couples therapy with people who are like, I'm just
Speaker 1: expressing my feelings. I can say what i want because
Speaker 1: I'm communicating. Well, communicating isn't. It's not just a free
Speaker 1: for all. We have to be mindful of. We have
Speaker 1: to start with the end in mind. How do I
Speaker 1: want this conversation to go. If I want you to
Speaker 1: be open and receptive and to take what I'm saying in,
Speaker 1: then I had better start by calming myself down or
Speaker 1: like whatever it is. I mean, like literally, like listening
Speaker 1: to music, like taking some deep breaths, asking you first, hey,
Speaker 1: like Todd to gesture with me, are you available for feedback? Right?
Speaker 1: There's things that we need to do around communication. It's
Speaker 1: more than just spitting out every single thought and feeling.
Speaker 1: That's you know, knocking around inside of your head. But
Speaker 1: we also need to have a set of skills around
Speaker 1: how we make repairs, how we apologize, and lots of
Speaker 1: us grew up in homes where we didn't see apology
Speaker 1: and forgiveness modeled for us, so we may actually not
Speaker 1: even know how to make a heartfelt apology. So when
Speaker 1: we do go into that tempson of the time where
Speaker 1: we say things, where we speak before thinking, where we
Speaker 1: allow our emotional brain to be in the driver's seat
Speaker 1: rather than our wise brain, we have to learn how
Speaker 1: to and be willing to look our partner in the
Speaker 1: eyes and say I'm sorry, I don't like how I
Speaker 1: said that, I would like a redo or with our kids.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's been incredible talking with you,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you taking some time to come on
Speaker 2: and teach us a lot of things that I think
Speaker 2: we all needed to hear.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Morgan, it was a fun conversation. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, guys, but I feel like
Speaker 2: I've just been seriously educated on matters of relationships. So
Speaker 2: if you feel the same and you want to connect
Speaker 2: with doctor Solomon, her website is doctor Alexandrasolomon dot com
Speaker 2: spelled Solomo in or you can follow her on Instagram
Speaker 2: at doctor dot Alexandra dot Solomon. On with me right
Speaker 2: now is country artist Kylie Morgan. She's had a crazy
Speaker 2: journey to get to where she is today with her
Speaker 2: career and with her personal life, which is why I'm
Speaker 2: really excited to have her on this week. Hi, Kylie,
Speaker 2: thanks for coming on. Please give the people a little
Speaker 2: bit of your beginning story just in case they haven't
Speaker 2: heard any of this yet.
Speaker 4: What's up, everybody, I'm Kylie Morgan. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for having me.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 4: I got my little pink guitar for Christmas from my
Speaker 4: papal when I was twelve, and truly there was no
Speaker 4: turning back. I told my mom when I learned my
Speaker 4: first three chords and wrote my first song on guitar,
Speaker 4: I was like, Mom, I'm skipping college and moving to
Speaker 4: Nashville to be a country music card.
Speaker 2: You knew very early.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my mom, My poor mom was just like, oh no,
Speaker 4: what did I get myself into?
Speaker 3: And I did it though.
Speaker 4: I just like was always the kid that said if
Speaker 4: she was going to do something, I would figure out
Speaker 4: a way to do it, and so it kind of
Speaker 4: always made sense that I felt like a fish out
Speaker 4: of water because my mindset and my dream set, I
Speaker 4: would say, it was just so different than anybody that
Speaker 4: I went to school with, and so I just kind
Speaker 4: of always felt like I was different from everybody. Sometimes good,
Speaker 4: but most of the time bad. Dealt with like bullying
Speaker 4: all growing up and just kind of being in a
Speaker 4: different mindset makes people think that you think you're better
Speaker 4: than them, but truth is, it's not the case at all.
Speaker 4: I just think differently and had really big dreams, and
Speaker 4: so I started going to Nashville to co write songs.
Speaker 4: When I was fifteen, I met this guy that pretty
Speaker 4: much took me under his wing.
Speaker 3: His name's Russ Zabatson.
Speaker 4: He's been a song plugger for years here in town
Speaker 4: and is still one of my favorite people and has
Speaker 4: been just a huge part of my story. I pretty
Speaker 4: much signed my first indie record deal when I was
Speaker 4: fourteen with this super small like company in Oklahoma that
Speaker 4: pretty much created their label for me. It was this
Speaker 4: guy that was just loved music, and his wife actually
Speaker 4: ended up slipping one of my CDs to his LA
Speaker 4: music friend and pretty much said what do you think
Speaker 4: of her? And there he was like, I think you
Speaker 4: should fly out to LA and let me hear her.
Speaker 4: And so I went out to LA and played a
Speaker 4: song for him with an attitude guitar, but truly from it,
Speaker 4: just like we grow from anything that we struggle with.
Speaker 4: And so started going back and forth to Nashville at
Speaker 4: fifteen and found people that would be willing to write
Speaker 4: with me. One of them was a guy named Walker Hayes,
Speaker 4: and he was one of the very first people I
Speaker 4: ever wrote with when I came to Nashville, which is
Speaker 4: insane that he would agree to write with fifteen year
Speaker 4: old first of all, and now to see where he
Speaker 4: is now, It's just so cool to have that piece
Speaker 4: of my story in art history that we have together.
Speaker 4: And so I just knew once I walked down Broadway
Speaker 4: for the first time that Nashville was gonna be home.
Speaker 4: And so I toured full time, ended up doing sophomore
Speaker 4: through senior year online so that I could spend full
Speaker 4: time touring and just like figuring out who I was
Speaker 4: as an artist, getting my feet wet, going back and
Speaker 4: forth to Nashville, writing continuously, and finally at nineteen, I
Speaker 4: packed up a bunch of thrift store furniture and moved
Speaker 4: to Nashville. I saved up all my money from touring
Speaker 4: and was able to buy a house my first publishing deal.
Speaker 4: When I moved here and signed my first pub DELA,
Speaker 4: I was making twenty k here, which is impossible to
Speaker 4: live on, especially in Nashville.
Speaker 3: But thankfully, since I bought my house.
Speaker 4: I had a room, so like, she paid my mortgage
Speaker 4: and I just had to pay for my food and
Speaker 4: so that was the only way I was able to
Speaker 4: survive off of that. But that led to another publishing
Speaker 4: deal with a guy named Shane McAnally.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that some.
Speaker 2: Of you have had another, as you should be bragging.
Speaker 4: I met him when I was I think I was
Speaker 4: twenty years old, and it was actually when Walker signed
Speaker 4: with Smack and Robin Palmer, who is the reason actually
Speaker 4: Shane got his first cut ever. I got a call
Speaker 4: from her, and long story short, I was in the
Speaker 4: middle of being like, WTF, what am I gonna do?
Speaker 4: I lost my last deal because they lost their investor,
Speaker 4: and so like, I moved to town with the deal,
Speaker 4: so I never met with any like managers or like
Speaker 4: publishers or anything like that because I already moved here,
Speaker 4: so no one knew who I was, and I was terrified.
Speaker 4: And so I got a call from Robin Palmer and
Speaker 4: I'll never forget this voicemail.
Speaker 3: It was like, Hi, this is Robin Palmer.
Speaker 4: I heard your songs through Walker Hayes's catalog and I
Speaker 4: was just calling because who are you?
Speaker 3: And I want to know you? So call me back.
Speaker 4: And so I immediately called her back and we got
Speaker 4: a meeting and I've just played her some of the
Speaker 4: stuff that I've been working on and she was super
Speaker 4: stoked about it, and it played it for Shane. Shane
Speaker 4: came to see me play at the Bluebird Cafe and
Speaker 4: I got my publishing deal right after that, and that
Speaker 4: led to a management deal, and then three years of
Speaker 4: just branding myself, figuring out who I was an artist,
Speaker 4: what I wanted to say.
Speaker 3: That led to Shane.
Speaker 4: Bringing me into Universal, introducing me to Mike Dungan, and
Speaker 4: got my record deal and then it was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: we're here, right, We've made it. Those are the highlights,
Speaker 4: and it's still a journey from here.
Speaker 2: No. I think it's a great to show just how
Speaker 2: far you've come where you are now and what happened
Speaker 2: along the way. There was something that really stuck out
Speaker 2: to me when you were talking about that and you
Speaker 2: were saying you were a fish out of water for
Speaker 2: a really long time because of the mindset you had,
Speaker 2: and I think for a long time. Especially you and
Speaker 2: I are very close in age, and when we grew up,
Speaker 2: it was hard to be different. If you were different,
Speaker 2: it wasn't understood yet you were wed. Yeah, today, being
Speaker 2: different it's like the best thing.
Speaker 3: I would world best.
Speaker 2: You're unique, Yes, thanks to talk and all the other
Speaker 2: things that are out there. Being that fish out of water.
Speaker 2: What do you feel like kind of during that timeframe
Speaker 2: of your life where you're trying to figure everything out
Speaker 2: and nothing was really making sense. What was that kind
Speaker 2: of hardest moment for you that you look back on
Speaker 2: and you're like, that really kind of changed the course
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually never forget this moment. When I started
Speaker 4: writing songs, I started writing it for me, like I
Speaker 4: thought it was just therapy for me. It made me
Speaker 4: feel better. I would go home and like lock myself
Speaker 4: in my room with me and my guitar and I
Speaker 4: would just vent to my guitar and write about what
Speaker 4: I was going through. Also, much cheaper than therapy, music
Speaker 4: was my healer, and I just always knew that. Like
Speaker 4: at first, when I started making music, I thought it
Speaker 4: was for me. And then I begged my mom for
Speaker 4: MySpace music when I was like thirteen, and back then,
Speaker 4: like like social media had just started, you know, like happening,
Speaker 4: and my mom thought that I was going to get
Speaker 4: kidnapped and killed if I like put anything on the net.
Speaker 4: And so I like begged her, begged her, and finally
Speaker 4: for Christmas, she gave me a MySpace music and she
Speaker 4: put it in a little card with a pass and
Speaker 4: it was like Mom's trust and I like She's like,
Speaker 4: I'm trusting you to get on this. Every time you
Speaker 4: type it in, you have to think of me.
Speaker 3: And so I went on.
Speaker 4: I was write when the MacBooks came out with Garage Band,
Speaker 4: and I just recorded just me and my guitar some songs,
Speaker 4: put them up and ended up getting a lot of
Speaker 4: like plays in traffic from it. Started putting stuff on YouTube,
Speaker 4: same thing, and that led to actually, this is the
Speaker 4: moment that I realized music was not for just me.
Speaker 4: When I went to Nashville for the first time. That
Speaker 4: week of first writing songs, I wrote with this beautiful
Speaker 4: human named Liz Hangber and other beautiful human named Rob Crosby.
Speaker 4: Liz Hangber has written a bunch of like Riba hits
Speaker 4: and Brooks and Dunn songs, things like that. Rob Crosby
Speaker 4: wrote Concrete Angel by Martina McBride and again, for them
Speaker 4: to even agree to write with me was just unreal.
Speaker 3: And we go into the room.
Speaker 4: We start talking about, you know, what's going on, and
Speaker 4: she said, Liz was like, I just want to bring
Speaker 4: this up. You know, when you're in a writing room,
Speaker 4: you never know what you're gonna write about that day
Speaker 4: until you get in there, see where everyone's head's at,
Speaker 4: see what everyone's feeling.
Speaker 3: And Liz was like, I have this thing wing on
Speaker 3: my heart. I just want to bring it up.
Speaker 4: I heard this story of this girl named Phoebe who
Speaker 4: I recently kind of dove into, and she was fifteen,
Speaker 4: and she recently just committed suicide because of bullying and
Speaker 4: dealing with that and couldn't take it anymore, took her
Speaker 4: own life. And I was fifteen at the time and
Speaker 4: had been dealing with bullying, so like, it was hit
Speaker 4: home for me really hard to know that it led
Speaker 4: to that for someone else. And so we just decided
Speaker 4: to write that story, and we wrote this song called
Speaker 4: Phoebe in honor of her and ended up putting it
Speaker 4: on YouTube. It got like seventy thousand views in like
Speaker 4: three days, and I ended up reading all the comments
Speaker 4: and it was just these kids were being like, this
Speaker 4: song saved my life, thank you. I was I was
Speaker 4: thinking about doing this, and now that I saw the
Speaker 4: effect it had on other people, like I don't, it
Speaker 4: was just it was one of the moments I was
Speaker 4: just like, music is not for me at all. My
Speaker 4: music is yes, it's for me, but it's also for others.
Speaker 4: And that's what gave me the inspiration to be like, Okay, no,
Speaker 4: this is this is going to happen because I want
Speaker 4: I want to help more people through music. And that's
Speaker 4: what helped me all growing up was I would, you know,
Speaker 4: lean on artists like Taylor Swift, Shania you know, all
Speaker 4: those original artists that helped me get through things, and
Speaker 4: I wanted to become that for other people. And so
Speaker 4: knowing that that affected I, I didn't want to stop there.
Speaker 4: So I actually ended up starting my own bullying prevention
Speaker 4: campaign called it Matters What We Do, which is a
Speaker 4: line from the song. I ended up touring from schools
Speaker 4: all across the country, from pre k all the way
Speaker 4: up to university level, and would go and fly in
Speaker 4: and talk about bullying and then play and perform and
Speaker 4: like make it a fun, you know thing, rather than
Speaker 4: adult being like, don't do this.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It was like a peer to peer thing, and I
Speaker 4: would just do meet and greets after and I would
Speaker 4: just have kids crying in my arms. That point in
Speaker 4: life was just no matter how frustrating the music business gets,
Speaker 4: I have to remember why I started music, because that
Speaker 4: is the reason why God gave me this talent.
Speaker 2: So it gave you this super charged passion. Almost not
Speaker 2: only was it something that was like in your blood,
Speaker 2: it became something that was like I have to do
Speaker 2: this to help others. And do you think, as you've
Speaker 2: gotten older, do you look back on that. I know,
Speaker 2: for me, like I look back on that and I'm
Speaker 2: not thankful for it. That's not the right word. I
Speaker 2: don't hate that it happened because it changed the course
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 3: I cannot wait for you to hear the song. It's
Speaker 3: called Me and Girls.
Speaker 4: The top of the chorus it says thank God for
Speaker 4: me and girls to show me how bad words can hurt.
Speaker 4: And the whole point of the song is because all
Speaker 4: these bad things happened to me, I got the good
Speaker 4: things that.
Speaker 3: Truly made me who I am.
Speaker 4: And instead of looking back and being like, yeah, thanks
Speaker 4: for like spreading all those rumors about me and like
Speaker 4: saying that I'll never get anywhere, and like no, like
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that, but I'm saying, like, thank you
Speaker 4: for giving me the strength to overcome the words that
Speaker 4: you're saying and continuing to find a way to move
Speaker 4: forward in that way I know how to deal with it.
Speaker 4: And even in my adult.
Speaker 2: Life, I think the message that you were constantly sitting,
Speaker 2: not only just being an artist, but as a person.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Which is why I was so exciting to have you
Speaker 2: on because we get to talk on this like very
Speaker 2: human side and it's so much different. I did also
Speaker 2: want to talk to you because you know, you do
Speaker 2: have a song that's that went viral still going viral
Speaker 2: independent with you. You know, earlier on this podcast, I
Speaker 2: was talking to doctor Solomon, who's an expert in basically
Speaker 2: all things, but definitely in relationships.
Speaker 3: A little bad. I need to listen to that part
Speaker 3: of the podcast. For sure, I could always use tips
Speaker 3: and tricks on that.
Speaker 2: No, but like and she's so awesome, And she talked
Speaker 2: about how to have these really refreshing, honest conversations with
Speaker 2: the people in your life. What's important about it is
Speaker 2: that you make sure that space is there and that
Speaker 2: they're ready to have that conversation. What kind of healthy
Speaker 2: things have you and Jay found that work for you, guys?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'll be honest, Like, so I met him
Speaker 4: when I was nineteen, the little baby Kylie, and I
Speaker 4: was the girl who was married to her career. I mean,
Speaker 4: that's all I thought about. That's all I ever. I eat, breathe, sleep, music.
Speaker 4: So it's like I've had a goal since I was little,
Speaker 4: and ever since before I met Jay, every relationship I
Speaker 4: was in I was forced to choose between the relationship
Speaker 4: or my music, Like whether if music was thriving, then
Speaker 4: my relationship was in the tank. If my relationship was thriving,
Speaker 4: then music was sucking. Like it just was never a balance.
Speaker 4: And so truly, when I was nineteen, I saw him
Speaker 4: walking down the stairs of this publishing company on music Row.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's my husband.
Speaker 4: I knew it, and I was just terrified to know it,
Speaker 4: but also like wasn't willing to admit that I ever
Speaker 4: wanted to get married because I always thought that I
Speaker 4: would still continuously have to choose and I just was
Speaker 4: always like, oh, I'm the girl that I'll never get married,
Speaker 4: and that's fine, Like I'll just I'll be in a
Speaker 4: happy relationship.
Speaker 3: We'll be together, but like you know, we don't got to.
Speaker 4: Put any label on it, or like the word wife
Speaker 4: still terrifies me, Like it kind of grosses me out sometimes.
Speaker 4: I just feel like I also haven't always had like
Speaker 4: the best examples of marriage in different parts of my life,
Speaker 4: and so it just the idea of it just scared me.
Speaker 4: I just always thought that one was above another, and
Speaker 4: like that's how it was. He for the first time
Speaker 4: showed me that I could have both because he treats
Speaker 4: me like an equal.
Speaker 3: And so for me and.
Speaker 4: Us, it is continuously learning about each other in a
Speaker 4: way that like when you, I mean this, you know
Speaker 4: your taste buds change every seven years, how are you
Speaker 4: not going to change every seven years? And continuously growing together.
Speaker 4: And I mean we had a mishappen in our relationship.
Speaker 4: We were like make or break and we decided to
Speaker 4: go to therapy, which like helped us tremendously. And usually
Speaker 4: people are like, especially in the South, they're like, oh, therapy,
Speaker 4: like what's.
Speaker 3: Wrong with you?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh my god, please change your mindsecaus,
Speaker 4: therapy is the best thing in the entire world. Like
Speaker 4: it just makes you think so differently, and it gives
Speaker 4: you it makes you learn things about yourself that you
Speaker 4: didn't even know. So we started doing therapy and we
Speaker 4: just applied those things that we learned there in everyday
Speaker 4: life and we don't go anymore, but we truly like
Speaker 4: learn so much from it. And I think the biggest
Speaker 4: thing that we learned is continuously realizing that we're both
Speaker 4: going to evolve and we're both going to change, and
Speaker 4: we can either do that together or we can do
Speaker 4: that separately. And that's how it always ends in divorce
Speaker 4: usually when that happens.
Speaker 3: And so if we can.
Speaker 4: Agree to like continuously grow together and evolve together in
Speaker 4: different ways that each other is needing, whatever stage of
Speaker 4: life that's in, then that's when we can continuously be
Speaker 4: closer and like continuously not feel like it's work.
Speaker 2: Kylie, thank you so much. This is so cool to
Speaker 2: hear your story and just hear you get really human
Speaker 2: with me, absolutely share this side of you. You guys
Speaker 2: heard earlier doctor Solomon talk about a lot of things,
Speaker 2: and Kylie and I broke down a lot of what
Speaker 2: Doctor Solomon and I talked about. Not that Kylie realized it,
Speaker 2: but it's cool. You know, when you go to therapy
Speaker 2: and you come in, you talk about it with your friends.
Speaker 3: So again, thank you.
Speaker 4: Thank you for giving artists and you know, people a
Speaker 4: space to come to to just kind of check out
Speaker 4: and realize that we're all on a journey and it's
Speaker 4: like no one's life is all put together, even if
Speaker 4: it seems that way.
Speaker 3: And I think it's just.
Speaker 4: So cool that you're now giving somewhere some people like
Speaker 4: took place to go for that reminder.
Speaker 2: I loved having two incredibly awesome women on this week.
Speaker 2: If you want to connect with Kylie Morgan, her music
Speaker 2: is everywhere you stream music and her social media is
Speaker 2: at Kylie Morgan Music. Now you can go follow the
Speaker 2: Instagram page at Take This Personally. You can also hit
Speaker 2: us up on the email Take This Personally at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com if you have questions or topics you want
Speaker 2: us to bring up with experts, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: Hit us up on either one of those, and there's
Speaker 2: simpull interviews. If you go to YouTube at web Girl Morgan,
Speaker 2: you will find some full interviews with some of these
Speaker 2: experts and guests that come on. Next week is a
Speaker 2: special episode. I'm really excited about this one. Nicole the
Speaker 2: neuroscientist comes on to talk to us all about brain health,
Speaker 2: but not only that, we're also wired to eat bad foods.
Speaker 2: How do we break habits, how do we fix negativity bias?
Speaker 2: And how can you learn to be creative? All of
Speaker 2: these things are helpful when understanding the brain. And then
Speaker 2: on that second half, I'm bringing on Jared, who is
Speaker 2: my personal trainer and a really good friend of mine.
Speaker 2: Not only are we going to talk about physical health,
Speaker 2: but also Jared has an incredibly inspiring story from homelessness
Speaker 2: to where he is now as a celebrity personal trainer.
Speaker 2: And if you love this podcast and you love this
Speaker 2: episode and there's more to come, please goe rate it
Speaker 2: five stars. I'm so happy to have you here in
Speaker 2: The outpouring of love and support for this podcast has
Speaker 2: been amazing to me, and I'm just so excited to
Speaker 2: see how more connected we can be and less alone
Speaker 2: in this crazy, crazy world.