Speaker 1: Native lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Nolan Well's coverage through
Speaker 2: media literacy lens and the importance of verification. After almost
Speaker 2: a month, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
Speaker 2: So it's important that we keep talking about this story.
Speaker 2: But it's also important how it's talked about. So watch
Speaker 2: this clip from TMZ, which I think also highlights how
Speaker 2: fragmented information gathering has become and why the media landscape
Speaker 2: is shifting so quickly, which I'll explain.
Speaker 3: If it's all true that he stayed behind on the island,
Speaker 3: was drinking, people saw him.
Speaker 2: Now listen to how YouTuber Trent out Loud pushes back
Speaker 2: on that, we.
Speaker 3: Know when that picture was taken, we can align the
Speaker 3: video with the distress call, and he wasn't on that boat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but Harvey, how do you know?
Speaker 2: So the questions that Trent raises are really important, at
Speaker 2: the very least, just to try to verify the unfounded
Speaker 2: claims that the outlet was making amid an ongoing investigation
Speaker 2: that has the potential to influence a jury pool, a
Speaker 2: grand jury pool. This exchange highlights how fragmented information gathering
Speaker 2: has become. In mind you, this is TMZ making this claim,
Speaker 2: which traditionally with celebrity stories has become the authority in
Speaker 2: many ways, but not on a law enforcement investigation. And
Speaker 2: you have Trend out Loud acting almost as a de
Speaker 2: facto journalist in this case, pushing back for the audience,
Speaker 2: and it shows how the media landscape is shifting so rapidly.
Speaker 2: Part of it is because we used to trust the
Speaker 2: outlets that have these huge platforms and believed that they
Speaker 2: did their due diligence before passing along information. But now
Speaker 2: we've seen multiple times, and in this case of Nolan
Speaker 2: Well's coverage specifically, we've seen in real time the bias
Speaker 2: and what seems to be a lack of fact checking
Speaker 2: and real reporting. And that's why Trent asking these questions,
Speaker 2: whether he got definitive answers or not makes a difference.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 4: He's literally using media.
Speaker 2: Literacy to ask about the credibility, about the validity of
Speaker 2: those claims in real time, and that allows anyone watching
Speaker 2: to realize, hey, wait, that thing that Harvey states as
Speaker 2: a fact actually isn't one after all. And the more
Speaker 2: you realize how media can be used for manipulation, the
Speaker 2: better you can consume information.
Speaker 4: I'm Jenny Norman.
Speaker 2: I used to do the news. Now I just report
Speaker 2: the facts and uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 4: Welcome home, y'all. This is our mini pod. We are
Speaker 4: thrilled to be joined today by a brilliant journalist formerly
Speaker 4: with ABC, and boy do they miss her now because
Speaker 4: she is kicking things off right and hot on the internet,
Speaker 4: holding big media accountable for the narratives that they are
Speaker 4: sharing overall, but particularly right now in the Nolan Wells case.
Speaker 4: I've seen that video and we are thrilled to welcome
Speaker 4: Jane Norman on Native Lampid. Welcome home, y'all. Hey, thank
Speaker 4: you guys for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I am a fan, first time yeah for a long
Speaker 1: time listener, first time caller. So I am I'm glad
Speaker 1: to be in your presence, sure for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having this. So let's talk about what
Speaker 4: you're like seeing in this Nolan Wells case, the Harvey
Speaker 4: Leven clip that you kind of go through and say,
Speaker 4: here are all of the challenges. Talk about why it's
Speaker 4: so problematic to have mainstream media talking about the case
Speaker 4: and the ways in which they.
Speaker 5: Are, well, it's because they're talking about it before there
Speaker 5: has been a full investigation, and because they were coming
Speaker 5: to the conversation as if they knew what happened. That's
Speaker 5: the problem that journalists came to this story thinking that
Speaker 5: they already knew what happened, They knew it beginning to end,
Speaker 5: and weren't there as journalists. Weren't there looking to find
Speaker 5: information to verify information that they were getting, and that's
Speaker 5: what continues to happen on these big platforms.
Speaker 4: So in that particular case of.
Speaker 5: What Harvey was sharing pointing to video that he got
Speaker 5: from former officer Tatum, Thankfully, in that case we had
Speaker 5: trend out Loud, this YouTuber who was basically acting as
Speaker 5: a journalist and pushing back on those claims because the
Speaker 5: other people that Harvey was talking to weren't doing that.
Speaker 4: And that's why.
Speaker 5: Typically Angela, what was happening in that clip with Harvey
Speaker 5: at first before Trent came on, That's what should happen
Speaker 5: in a newsroom, not what should happen on a platform
Speaker 5: that is going out to lots of people. You can
Speaker 5: be talking about the information that you're getting, but before
Speaker 5: it goes out to all of these people. There should
Speaker 5: be verification, there should be some vetting of this information,
Speaker 5: and that doesn't seem to be what happened. But we
Speaker 5: were able to have Trent there pushing back to say, well, Harvey,
Speaker 5: how do we know when this video came? When when
Speaker 5: did Officer Tatum provide you the metadata to be able
Speaker 5: to make these claims so substantially on this platform, And
Speaker 5: then to have Harvey at the end say well, you know,
Speaker 5: anything's possible, So then you didn't know, so then why
Speaker 5: were you saying it as.
Speaker 4: If you did. That's the problem with so many of
Speaker 4: these platforms. Why do you think that keeps happening? Because
Speaker 4: it's not just happening with Harvey, it's happening quite a bit.
Speaker 4: And if I think we'd be remiss if we didn't
Speaker 4: acknowledge in the case of the missing black child, it's
Speaker 4: happening over and over again. Why do you think that is? Jenny?
Speaker 5: I would start with the question, Angela, why doesn't it
Speaker 5: happen with a missing white woman?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: Because we see when it happens, and we know when
Speaker 5: it doesn't happen.
Speaker 4: We know the stories.
Speaker 5: That the media will go to, and they've got open ears,
Speaker 5: and we know who they are offering the suspicion to
Speaker 5: and who they are offering the benefit of the doubt to.
Speaker 5: And in this case, it's flipped the way that it
Speaker 5: normally would be for a missing white woman. And why
Speaker 5: is that?
Speaker 1: We know?
Speaker 6: What?
Speaker 1: How do I educate my mama and her chat group
Speaker 1: on how to consume what to consume because they are
Speaker 1: more worried and praying about this boy and his family.
Speaker 1: But I've be damned every single day they don't get
Speaker 1: some news off Facebook or somewhere else. I mean, how
Speaker 1: do we educate people about how to consume news? I
Speaker 1: mean we always talk about creators and warn them about
Speaker 1: what to put out, but what should we consume at
Speaker 1: all and just have our third eye? I mean, how
Speaker 1: do we do that?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 5: First off, we are so grateful for all of the
Speaker 5: praying aunties, grandma's and mama's out there, But yeah, when
Speaker 5: it comes to where we're getting our news, and this
Speaker 5: is the thing, because we're looking around and looking at
Speaker 5: the traditional news outlets that we have thought were the
Speaker 5: places to get the verified information and we're realizing, hey,
Speaker 5: you're not doing your job the way that you once
Speaker 5: were or the way that we thought you once were.
Speaker 5: So where do we go? That's sort of what we're
Speaker 5: still figuring it out. We have to find the pockets.
Speaker 5: We have to find the areas where information is being vetted,
Speaker 5: where people are using their critical thinking skills, where people
Speaker 5: are pushing back and asking the questions and being skeptical.
Speaker 5: That's what we need a little bit more of. We
Speaker 5: need more skepticism. When you hear something to think, one,
Speaker 5: does that sound right? And if it doesn't, to go
Speaker 5: look more, to check where you are getting your information from.
Speaker 5: And yes, it's hard to say where you're getting it from,
Speaker 5: but we've still got these outlets out there, and you
Speaker 5: can still get the information from traditional news outlets. But
Speaker 5: then you have to have enough wherewithal in your mind
Speaker 5: to realize what's not being told here, what perspective are
Speaker 5: they sharing it from, what voices are they including, who
Speaker 5: are they not including why might they not be including
Speaker 5: those voices, and be able to ask those questions to
Speaker 5: understand what information you're getting and what information you're not getting.
Speaker 4: I have a question around Nancy Grace being on the case.
Speaker 4: I wonder if what you feel about this. This is
Speaker 4: a woman who's deeply passionate about crime related cases. Lost
Speaker 4: her fiance at a young age. But since then has
Speaker 4: I mean she'd been on the case for me Janey
Speaker 4: since oj Okay, So this is very serious. But also
Speaker 4: Nancy's out there put some stuff out that hasn't in
Speaker 4: fact check. So what do we tell To Bacari's point,
Speaker 4: his momb I heard Chad group about this.
Speaker 5: I think that listen, with this particular case, it has
Speaker 5: to be trust but verify.
Speaker 6: If you have your source that you have trusted for years,
Speaker 6: for decades, Okay, trust but verify. And at this point,
Speaker 6: unfortunately we're still waiting. It's gonna have to be trust
Speaker 6: but verify with every piece of information we get because
Speaker 6: it's coming through the hands and through channels that we
Speaker 6: really can't trust.
Speaker 1: And it's coming from Mississippi.
Speaker 5: That's exactly it.
Speaker 4: That's what I mean.
Speaker 5: It's coming whether it's coming from law enforcement or from
Speaker 5: other officials. We can only trust and verify so much.
Speaker 5: There is only limited information. And that's why we need
Speaker 5: these praying aunties and Grandma's for this family, because our
Speaker 5: hearts go out to them because they should be getting
Speaker 5: more answers than they are right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, Jane, we are so grateful that you
Speaker 4: could join us today. Briefly, we got to have you back.
Speaker 4: We had this our other main show go long, and
Speaker 4: of course we know you have several conflicts. So we're
Speaker 4: going to welcome you back very very very soon to
Speaker 4: do more if you have time.
Speaker 1: Welcome home.
Speaker 4: Thank y'all so much. I appreciate it. Thanks, welcome home.
Speaker 4: So we're really grateful for Janey joining us today. You
Speaker 4: know what else is moving. I love Jenna Bakari. That
Speaker 4: I think is fascinating. So allegedly there was a friend
Speaker 4: of the family of Nolan Wells that joined who joined
Speaker 4: uh Don Lemon's show the other day talking about what
Speaker 4: they're really worried about is folks coming into Mississippi and
Speaker 4: saying they're racist and all that. Those clips have been
Speaker 4: pulled down, but this is what is still up. Let's
Speaker 4: go ahead and roll that clip.
Speaker 3: When you step into the middle of one of the
Speaker 3: biggest stories in America, invoke a grieving family's name and
Speaker 3: speak as though you're a care their trust the public doesn't.
Speaker 3: The public, I think deserves to know whether the family
Speaker 3: actually agrees. I think that is a fair assessment, and
Speaker 3: in this case, they don't that alone, I think would
Speaker 3: have made yesterday's interview extremely memorable. And then we started
Speaker 3: talking about race, and you know how that is, Once
Speaker 3: you start talking about race, it becomes a whole another show.
Speaker 3: So we started talking about race, and then Emmanuel told
Speaker 3: me that people outside Mississippi need to stop bringing up
Speaker 3: Mississippi's racial history. He argued that Hollywood has convinced the
Speaker 3: rest of America that the South is frozen in the past.
Speaker 3: That was his I'm paraphrasing here. He said the interracial marriages,
Speaker 3: mixed families, black and white people living together as evidence
Speaker 3: that racism no longer defines where he lives. And then
Speaker 3: he said something that really kind of got to me, right,
Speaker 3: He said, a quiet racist isn't really a problem as
Speaker 3: long as that racist keeps it to himself. He said,
Speaker 3: who cares? Okay, I care?
Speaker 4: Where do they find this man at? The question is
Speaker 4: the older, older black man.
Speaker 1: Was his friend?
Speaker 4: No? No, no, it was a friend of the allegedly
Speaker 4: a friend of the family. So yeah, I think that
Speaker 4: what is troubling me are you know it feels like,
Speaker 4: you know, there's always like cloud chasing in these cases.
Speaker 4: B you see it more than I do given your
Speaker 4: line of work. But what's what's crazy to me is
Speaker 4: you're you're creating platforms for yourselves on the back of
Speaker 4: this black but who were still trying to understand how
Speaker 4: he left us. And I just think there has to
Speaker 4: be something in you that says, you know what, now
Speaker 4: is not the time. We don't know if race played
Speaker 4: a role in this or not why because it's an
Speaker 4: open perhaps murder investigation, but certainly in a homicide investigation
Speaker 4: like we owe this family answers, the city, the county,
Speaker 4: the state, this country owes this family answers. We should
Speaker 4: not be out here trying to figure out how to
Speaker 4: create something, some narrative. We just have to be careful.
Speaker 1: Be more than careful. But I do, I do appreciate
Speaker 1: trusted messengers like Don Lemon, and I think the anguish
Speaker 1: that you see on your face is indicative of all
Speaker 1: of us, because we like, who is this nigga? Right?
Speaker 1: And we should not be asking questions like that. We
Speaker 1: should be instead he I mean praying for that family,
Speaker 1: praying for that community, because we don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, he could look, you know,
Speaker 1: have any black bodies in rivers in Mississippi.
Speaker 4: I'm trying. And then and the fact that we don't
Speaker 4: even have to go back to life instruction or lynching era.
Speaker 4: There are people who the corner, the current corner has
Speaker 4: continually ruled no foul play, cause of death unknown, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 4: But lo and behold here, you know we I don't
Speaker 4: know this man is saying, we don't have to look
Speaker 4: at Mississippi's racist past. You're right, we can look at
Speaker 4: Mississippi's racist present.
Speaker 1: Let's just stay focused on the race. But but past
Speaker 1: is prolog in. Mississippi deser, Mississippi deserves this moment.
Speaker 4: But I'm saying, if you don't want to look at
Speaker 4: the past, we can look at right now. And it's
Speaker 4: still problematic. It's still problematic. So yeah, I just think
Speaker 4: that it's important for us to continue to uplift this story.
Speaker 4: If there are others that come up that we don't
Speaker 4: know about, please put bring them to our attention. It's
Speaker 4: just it's it's mission critical. And we also I just
Speaker 4: want to remind our black children, y'all, please have a
Speaker 4: diverse friend group and folks who ain't bullying you or
Speaker 4: putting you in bad situations. Folks who have you back?
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what happened in this case,
Speaker 4: but I'm saying overall, I want you to be around
Speaker 4: positive influences. You'll want nobody have you out here taking drugs,
Speaker 4: is selling drugs. I don't want you to have nobody
Speaker 4: out here having you drink too early, don't want you
Speaker 4: to get tatted up too early, and damn sure, don't
Speaker 4: want you falling in the water. Now, how you gonna
Speaker 4: talk to me about typing in here? You go?
Speaker 1: I was just pulling something up. But also parents, parents
Speaker 1: know who your fan group, who your son's friend group is,
Speaker 1: and know who their parents are.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, be that was not that was?
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can edit that.
Speaker 4: No you can't because for whatever reason you messed it
Speaker 4: got hacked by the Microsoft people, the fake Microsoft people
Speaker 4: rather yes, prayers to the family. Thank you for your
Speaker 4: courage in this really, really difficult time. You have made
Speaker 4: it your mission to be out in the streets conferences,
Speaker 4: letting people know what happened to your son and trying
Speaker 4: to prevent that from happening to other people's children. So
Speaker 4: thank you, Kari. Seriously. Anyway, Welcome home, y'all.
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