1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we have 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: concepts of a plan for today's episode. Today we'll be 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: talking to Lindsay dark Angelo and Frankie de la Creta, 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: authors of Hail Mary, the Rise and Fall of the 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: National Women's Football League ahead of the fiftieth anniversary of 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: that league. Plus fallowout continues following Kathy Engelbert's recent interview 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: with WNBA players and the players Association speaking out and 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: some Orange Slices come through with some truly terrible sponsor ideas. 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: It's all coming up right after this. Welcome back Orange Slices. 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: Here's what you need to know today. Yesterday we told 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: you about the brewing backlash over Kathy Engelbert, the commissioner 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: of the WNBA's recent appearance on CNBC's Power Lunch. When 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: asked by CNBC anchor Tyler Matheson about if the league 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: could have gotten ahead of or had a plan for 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: when the Angel rees Caitlin Clark Rivalry took a quote 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: darker and more menacing tone on social media, especially around 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: issues of race and SEXUALI. Englbert failed to directly respond 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: to the question. She instead focused her answer on the 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: boost to business provided by rivalries. Given the increase in 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: racists and vitriolic comments players have received this season, especially 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: players of color, Engelbert's answers spark backlash from fans, players, 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: and even the league's players Association. On Tuesday evening, the 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: Players Association released a statement written by executive director Terry Jackson. 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: It read, in part, quote, here's the answer that the 25 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: commissioner should have provided to the very clear question regarding 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: the racism, misogyny, and harassment experience by the players. There 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: is absolutely no place in sport or in life for 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: the vile hate, racist language, homophobic comments, and the misogynist 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: attacks our players are facing on social media. This is 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: not about rivalries or iconic personalities fueling a business model. 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: This kind of toxic fandom should never be tolerated or 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: left unchecked. It demands immediate action and frankly, should have 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: been addressed long ago. 34 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: End quote. 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: Individual players from the league have also been weighing in. 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: Asked about Engelbert's answer by ESPN, Las Vegas Aces point 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: guard Chelsea Gray said quote, I just think it's doing 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: a disservice to the majority of this league and not 39 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: talking about the part that it's consumed and played by 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: black women to basically be like, yep, we push it 41 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: under the carpet that racism is okay. So not being 42 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: direct and handling that, I think she did a poor 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: job of doing that. W n bp A vice president 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: Branda Stewart told reporter she was disappointed by Engelbert's answer too. 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: Here's that audio. 46 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: It's it's kind of disappointing to hear because you know 47 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,279 Speaker 3: the way that the fans have surged and especially behind 48 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 3: Caitlin and Angel coming to this league, but also bringing 49 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 3: like a race aspect to a different level, and you know, 50 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: there's there's no place for that in our sport. And 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: I think that's really it is. We want our sport 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: to be inclusive for race, you know, gender and and 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: really a place where people can be themselves. So we 54 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 3: wish obviously Kathy would a platform in a different way 55 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 3: and have made that a little bit better, but kind 56 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 3: of just telling the fans like enough enough is enough, 57 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: you know, become a fan of our sport and for 58 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: the new ones, like lock in on everybody, but don't 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 3: be disrespectful because as a league, like we stick together 60 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: and there's there's no place for that. 61 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: Engelbert posted a statement to Twitter late Tuesday night, writing quote, 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: during a recent media interview, I was asked about the 63 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: dark side of social media and online conversation about WNBA 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: rivalries and race. To be clear, there is absolutely no 65 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: place for hate or racism of any kind in the 66 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: WNBA or anywhere else. 67 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: End quote. 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm alone. And having clicked directly on 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: that Kathy tweet expecting it to expand to more, it didn't. 70 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: It seems pretty unlikely that Engelbert's response will be enough 71 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: to quell the fire that was sparked by her interview. 72 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: We'll be talking about this a little bit more on 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: today's show with Frankie and Lindsay and with producer Mish 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: and as more continues to come out in response to 75 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: the end. In other WNBA news, there is just one 76 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: game tonight with the Dallas Wings hosting the New York Liberty, 77 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: and while the Wings have been eliminated from playoff contention, 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: there's one cool record that could be broken. Ariga Agumbowale 79 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: is currently eleven points away from becoming the franchise's all 80 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: time leading scorer, and in hoops and gay Shit news 81 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: on fiancetde couple, do Wanna Bonner and Alissa Thomas continue 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: to break records for the Connecticut Sun. Douana Bonner passed 83 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: Sue Byrd to move into seventh place on the WNBA 84 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: all time field goals made list, and Alissa Thomas moved 85 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: into first all time and steals in Connecticut's Sun history. Finally, ESPN, 86 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: whose regular season coverage of the w has wrapped, has 87 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: announced that the twenty twenty four WNBA regular season on 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: ESPN platforms was the most watched ever and buy a 89 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: lot up one hundred and seventy percent over last year's 90 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: regular season average, and their show WNBA countdown was up 91 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirteen percent versus last year's average. You'll 92 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: love to see it. 93 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back. 94 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: We'll talk with Lindsay and Frankie about a women's league 95 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: that has too often been overlooked. 96 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: It's coming up next. 97 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: She's a longtime women's sports writer, a columnist at Awful Announcing, 98 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: former women's soups writer for The Athletic. Her work has 99 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: appeared in The Ring or Dead's beIN ESPN, teen, Vogue, 100 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: and more. She's a Maxwell fan and probably rocking an 101 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: Angel Reese Times. Reese's piece is fit right now. It's 102 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: Lindsay dark Angela. 103 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 2: What's up? Lindsay, what's up? You're not wearing that fit? 104 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 4: No, I'm wearing wn WNBA though WNBA. 105 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: Perfect perfect joining her there an award winning freelance writer 106 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: whose work focus is on the intersection of sports and gender. 107 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: Their work has appeared in The New York Times, Sports Illustrated, espnW, Vogue, 108 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and more. Their dog might 109 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: be barking right in the middle of this interview. At 110 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: least we're gonna blame their dog and not mine. It's 111 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: Frankie de la Creta. What's up, Frankie? 112 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 5: Hi, Sarah, I'm also rocking WNBA merch. It turns out so. 113 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm rocking my Kamala bratt hat that says we're not 114 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: going back so perfect? 115 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 2: Could we be more feminist? 116 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this book you wrote, Hail Mary, The 117 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: Rise and Fall of the National Women's Football League. You 118 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: are on and joining us to honor the fiftieth anniversary 119 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: of that league, which is coming up on September fifteenth. Lindsay, 120 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: I just want to start with the basic how did 121 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: you two come together and write on this topic? 122 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 4: And we have told this story like so many times. 123 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 4: I'll give you the quick sum up. Frankie and I 124 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 4: met in a Facebook group Geez back in like twenty sixteen, 125 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 4: and it was for you know, marginalized sports sports writers, women, 126 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 4: LGBTQ individuals, women of color, and basically it was a 127 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 4: group that was just full of people who are just 128 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 4: trying to establish themselves and support and share articles and 129 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 4: things of that nature. And Frankie and I got to 130 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 4: talking and they were writing, I believe a story on 131 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 4: the Toledo Troopers, who are the winningest team in the 132 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 4: NWFL and I think in football in general. They reach 133 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 4: out to me and asked me if you know, I 134 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 4: knew of any football related books that existed because they 135 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 4: knew I was a big football fan and there weren't any. 136 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 4: The type of books that were out there were basically 137 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 4: teaching women about football or how to get into football 138 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 4: to to you know, appease their boyfriend or whatever. And 139 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 4: then you know, I said, you know, you should write one, 140 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: and they said, well, only if you would write it 141 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: with me. And that's basically how it started. I mean 142 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: We basically went from there and created a book proposal 143 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: that was about women in football in general, over throughout 144 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: the period of history since football was created. But it 145 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 4: was too it was too broad, and our agent and 146 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 4: publishers asked us to narrow it down, and Frankie said, 147 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 4: you know this, did a little bit more research on 148 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 4: the Troopers and found out about the n w NWFL 149 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 4: and said this is what we should focus on, and 150 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 4: that's what we did. 151 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about the league? When did it kick 152 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: off on how long did it last? 153 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 4: I kicked off September fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, and it 154 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: ran until nineteen eighty eight, so it lasted, you know, 155 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: for over a decade. And there were periods of growth 156 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: and where things look like they might take off and 157 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 4: come together, and then you know, eventually is some leagues 158 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 4: and women's sports history failed to you know, establish themselves 159 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 4: as what happened with the NWFL, and it eventually folded. 160 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: Frankie, a lot of people might not even know that 161 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: there was an NWFL. 162 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the research for the book? 163 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: How much information was out there and how many former 164 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: participants or people with close ties to the league were 165 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: you actually able to find. 166 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 5: You know, it's so wild to me how many people 167 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 5: did not know this league existed, even like women's sports 168 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 5: historians had not heard of this league. And considering that, yeah, 169 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 5: it was the first pro women's football league in the US, 170 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 5: has the winningest team in pro football history, men's or 171 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 5: women's in it. Like, the fact that people did not 172 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 5: know about this league was really surprising to us. And 173 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 5: I think that's why it felt so important to be 174 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 5: able to document this story. In terms of doing the research, 175 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 5: it kind of became like Domino's, you know, once you 176 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 5: found one person, the domino started to fall. We started 177 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 5: with newspaper archives and there would be player names in 178 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 5: those stories and we would look those people up Facebook, 179 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 5: their boomers. They were on Facebook, but we love it. 180 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 5: We found that a lot of the women on Facebook, 181 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 5: and usually finding one would lead to, you know, finding 182 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 5: a teammate. And I'll tell you almost every team had 183 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 5: almost like what I kind of referred to as like 184 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 5: their team historian. There was always the one player that 185 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 5: had the closet full of everything with the game program 186 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 5: and the memorabilia and the newspaper articles and things like that, 187 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 5: and so many of these women really were waiting for 188 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 5: somebody to call them, Like there was women who were 189 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 5: like I kind of gave up that anyone was ever 190 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 5: going to tell this story, or you know, some people 191 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 5: have been like I've been waiting forty years for someone 192 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 5: to care about this, and so once you start digging, 193 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 5: you know it is out there. And a lot of 194 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 5: the women were really really happy, happy to talk. 195 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: I have to tell you, you're making me like emotional 196 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: just talking about it, because it's bringing to me memories 197 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: of the end of a league of their own and 198 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: that part of the movie. Like I remember watching it 199 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: the first couple of times when I was younger and 200 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: being like, oh, that's nice. And then I had like 201 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: a fifteen year gap and watched it again as an adult, 202 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: and I was like bawling about the idea of how 203 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: different life could have been for so many women who 204 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: cared so much about sport and just weren't given the opportunity. 205 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: And thinking about these women and how grateful they were 206 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: for you to show up and want to tell their stories, 207 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: and having them have kept all that stuffs hurts me. 208 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 5: I will tell you. While we were writing the book, 209 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 5: there was the daughter of one of the Houston Hurricanes 210 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: players was filming a documentary. It's called The Hurricanes. It's 211 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 5: actually I think gonna be in theaters select theaters next month, 212 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 5: so people should check that out. But I was able 213 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 5: to fly down to Houston to film for that, but 214 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 5: I was there for a forty year anniversary reunion of 215 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 5: the team. The women hadn't seen each other since their 216 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 5: team folded unexpectedly in nineteen seventy nine, and it felt 217 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 5: like being in the illegue of their own scene where 218 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 5: they all see each other for the first time in 219 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 5: so long. And I think Lindsay and I both feel 220 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 5: this way. We still as familiar with the material as 221 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 5: we are and as well as we know this story. 222 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 5: Every time I watched that film, I cry. I've seen 223 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 5: it three times now. I've cried every time. It's I 224 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 5: think it's deeply, you know, moving, and it's emotional for 225 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 5: so many reasons. 226 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Lindsay, what was the sponsor the league when 227 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: it first launched? 228 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 4: There was there was intrigue. But so there's a whole backstory. 229 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 4: And this is what our book helps sort of parts out, 230 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 4: is it's it's not just about this specific league, but 231 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 4: when women first were introduced to the game and started 232 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 4: playing and started, you know, trying to establish themselves, whether 233 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 4: it was at the high school level or a play 234 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 4: a student at a high school who just got onto 235 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: the men's football team. Different things like that were happening 236 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 4: leading up to this. And then you have a man 237 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: named Sid Freeman out of out of Ohio who created 238 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 4: like a barnstorming team because he saw the potential, he 239 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 4: saw the curiosity for women playing football and he created 240 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 4: a team and so it was already and so they 241 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 4: played games and people would come and it was there 242 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 4: was already this momentum leading up and then when people 243 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 4: saw what he was doing, other teams popped up, you know, 244 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 4: at different parts of the country, and eventually that's what 245 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 4: led to the formation of the league. So there was 246 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 4: already an appetite for women playing football when the league launched, 247 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: and I think that sort of gave them a platform 248 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 4: to jump off from. As far as like received from 249 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 4: the media and people in football circles and particularly you 250 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 4: know men, you know they were it wasn't well received 251 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 4: at all in that regard. It was put down the 252 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 4: players were taken seriously. There was this whole thing where 253 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 4: they were accused in Isaiah accused because you know the 254 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 4: way feminism was used back then, they were accused of 255 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 4: being feminists or doing it for certain reasons. But and honestly, 256 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 4: and this goes back to what you were talking about 257 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 4: with the league of their own. When we talked to 258 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 4: these players, the sentiment was basically this, they loved the 259 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 4: game and they just wanted a chance to play, and 260 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 4: that was the driving force. But yeah, there as far 261 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 4: as how the league was received from from fans or 262 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 4: people who were who wanted to see it, there was 263 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 4: definitely a lot of hype. 264 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: Was the coverage the same as we tend to see 265 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: even now, but especially in years past. 266 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: Words basically split into two. 267 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: It's either like, women shouldn't be allowed to do this, 268 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: This isn't ladylike and proper and safe. And then if 269 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: they're going to do it, can they wear shorter shorts. 270 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: And crop tops? 271 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 4: Yep? All of that. 272 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: Wow, shocking that it was that easy for me to. 273 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 4: Guess, Sarah, you have nailed it. 274 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 5: You didn't even have to read the chapter. 275 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: No, No, but I will, but I'll be angry while 276 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: I read it, because that's the same old story everything. 277 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, you already know, like Frank and I would send 278 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 4: article clips that we were you know, during our research 279 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 4: process back and forth with just absolute in absolute horror 280 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 4: at what we were reading and the way these women 281 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: were talked about. But it's not that far removed from 282 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 4: some of the stuff we've seen in you know, in 283 00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 4: Today's Meet. 284 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: The number of times I've had to write the same 285 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: story and replace the name FIFA head set. Bladders suggests 286 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: that soccer for women would be better if they were 287 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: short or shorts. 288 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, although I mean, I will say it's funny. You know, 289 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 5: Lindsay mentioned Sid Friedman and part of his you know, 290 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 5: barnstorming Harlem Globetrotter's ask vision that he had for these 291 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 5: women was he wanted like tear away skirts. He invited 292 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 5: Husmer magazine out, Yeah, basically, and the women were really 293 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 5: not having it And part of the reason that they 294 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 5: broke away from him was because they wanted to be 295 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 5: taken seriously as football players. And I think this is 296 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 5: the difference too between right, we've talked about a league 297 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 5: of their own. If we look at the time period 298 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 5: and like, you know, the nineteen forties and fifties that 299 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 5: league was, we're talking about the late you know, or 300 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 5: mid to late seventies. Now there has been some progress 301 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 5: to the point that the women that were playing football 302 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 5: were much less willing to wear the skirt to be 303 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 5: on the field. They instead were like, actually, we're going 304 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 5: to take our own league. One team formed a corporation 305 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 5: to purchase themselves from their male owners so that they 306 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 5: could incredible have control over themselves. And so you do 307 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 5: see that shift, you know, happening. And then the women 308 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 5: are trying. You know, it's like the men see them 309 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 5: as a joke, but the women make it, make it real, 310 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 5: you know. 311 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: Brief aside, I was in Vancouver just a couple months 312 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: ago to give a speech and I went to breakfast 313 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: and my waitress said, oh, where are you from, Like 314 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: she could tell I was visiting, And what are you 315 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: here for? I said, women's sports, saying YadA YadA, And 316 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: she said, you know what I just saw the other 317 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: day for the first time, this lingerie league football. What 318 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: a great idea. I can't believe this isn't a bigger thing. 319 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, Ah, what year is this? 320 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: What year am I in? 321 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 5: Only truly, but can we discuss that that league is 322 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 5: still the only like women's football league that ever had 323 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 5: like a cable deal. 324 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: And can we also talk about how those athletes were 325 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: freaking insane so talented. It made me sad every time 326 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: I watched. I didn't watch a lot. I watched to 327 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: do a story on it, and I was like, these 328 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: women are badasses and this is what we're doing. 329 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: This is so sad. 330 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: Craig, you just mentioned one about a team buying themselves back, 331 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: But are there any other like stories about people or 332 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: teams involved that really stood out to While you were 333 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: reporting that, you were like, oh my god, everyone needs 334 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: to hear about this. 335 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 5: I mean, I think there's there's definitely several that is 336 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 5: you know, the Columbus Paysetters are They're one of my favorite. 337 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 5: They were the team that ran the longest. They ran 338 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 5: the whole length of the league from seventy four to 339 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 5: eighty eight, and yeah they did. They they formed a 340 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 5: corporation and purchased themselves from the men that owned them, 341 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 5: and that was pretty incredible. I also had a real, 342 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 5: you know, soft spot for the Dallas Bluebonnets. I wrote 343 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 5: their story and I love that team. The majority of 344 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 5: the women that showed up to try out for that 345 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 5: team found out about the tryouts and like their local 346 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 5: lesbian bar, and so I got to do a very 347 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 5: like I did not know that I was going to 348 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 5: end up doing like a deep dive on the history 349 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 5: of lesbian bars and Alice in the nineteen seventies. But 350 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 5: it turns out the scenes happen. And what's cool is 351 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 5: some of those players still see each other because they 352 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 5: still go line dancing at the lesbian bar in Dallas. 353 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 4: I love So. 354 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 5: I really liked getting to tell that story, particularly from 355 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 5: like a cultural standpoint. And I know, like I think 356 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 5: Lindsay has teams, you know, we kind of each have 357 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 5: different stories in the book that we Yeah, is. 358 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 2: There one that stands out to Lindsay? 359 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, for sure. There's a player who played for 360 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 4: the La Dandellions. Her name is Rose Low, and she 361 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 4: was their quarterback. And at first she didn't she didn't 362 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 4: want to talk about the league. She had been burned 363 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 4: in the past when opening up about things. She was 364 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 4: very hesitant. And everybobody else who I contact and from 365 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 4: that team gets saying, you got to talk to Rose. 366 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 4: You got to talk to Rose because she was one 367 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 4: of those team historians who had a bunch of documents 368 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 4: and video to share and had saved memorabilia. She was 369 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 4: also like one of the captains. And you know, she 370 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 4: just was so hesitant to open up, which I don't 371 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: blame her at all. And she kept started off first 372 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 4: texting me, and then we did like a preliminary call, 373 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 4: and then once she felt comfortable, man, the floodgates opened 374 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 4: and she just she shared. She shared so much. I mean, 375 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 4: this book, my part of the book wouldn't be complete 376 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 4: without her and what the information she provided. But when 377 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 4: we finished the book and it came out, she sent 378 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 4: me She not only sent me care packages throughout the 379 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 4: writing process, but she sent me a care package at 380 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 4: the end when it was published. And actually Frankie and 381 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 4: I were out in LA for the La Book Festival 382 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty one, we got to meet her. She 383 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 4: came and she gave us both care packages. Again, I think, 384 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 4: oh so sweet. 385 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 386 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: So it's just that's how, that's how just grateful a 387 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 4: lot of these players were to hear their see their 388 00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 4: story being told. 389 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: I ask what had happened to her in her previous 390 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: time speaking to press about it. 391 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: I think just being you know, in interviews and stuff. 392 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 4: A lot of these players were asked some of the 393 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 4: same questions over and over again, you know, about why 394 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 4: they're playing and why they think they belonged there, you know, 395 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 4: were they were they just doing it for feminism and 396 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 4: things of that nature. And she never really felt like 397 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 4: anyone took them seriously as athletes. And you know, they 398 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 4: were in a period of time where Tyle nine had 399 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 4: just happened, and they were just the door had just 400 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 4: been opened for women to be able to try to 401 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 4: play sports, different sports at the college level and try 402 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 4: different things here and there, and so it was like 403 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 4: this brand new world that opened up for her, and 404 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 4: you know, to still be treated in a way where 405 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 4: you felt like, oh, it's one step forward, two steps 406 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 4: back kind of a thing was was really tough. 407 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: It's hard. 408 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, frank you what happened to the league? 409 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: Why did it shut down? 410 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 5: Lack of funds? Really is you know, old story. It's 411 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 5: the same old story. And I think what you know 412 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 5: it's the same old story, particularly with like women's leagues, right, 413 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 5: is that we can see that men's leagues, Uh, you know, 414 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 5: it takes at least a decade usually for leagues and 415 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 5: teams to see like any sort of profit and people 416 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 5: will continue funding men's leagues and men's teams even when 417 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 5: they are losing money. But when women's leagues don't make 418 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 5: money the first year, people want to bail and all. 419 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: The product and not the investment. 420 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, and the men that owned these teams had no 421 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 5: experience in owning any teams before, and they thought that 422 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 5: this was going to be like a quick buck. They 423 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 5: really thought they were going to turn around a profit 424 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 5: in a year or two, and unfortunately that's just not 425 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 5: how it works. And so I think a combination. Also, 426 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 5: there was a lot of press coverage at the beginning 427 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 5: because it was seen as kind of was it a gimmick? 428 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 5: What is it? It was something new, And you will 429 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 5: see we have a really hard time putting together the 430 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 5: story of like really like the nineteen eighties. We don't 431 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 5: cover that much in the book because the press coverage 432 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 5: had like nearly stopped. And so if you don't have 433 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 5: a lot of you know, you don't have press coverage, 434 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 5: people don't know about the games. No one is going 435 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 5: and no one is putting any money into this. I 436 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 5: mean the women paid for this out of their own pocket. 437 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 5: Most of them were promised twenty five dollars a game. 438 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 5: The majority of them never got that they are like 439 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 5: hosting car washes, raffles, the things that you know, women's 440 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 5: football players are still doing today still happen, you know, 441 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 5: and so ultimately they just couldn't sustain it. 442 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 443 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: Well, I recommend everybody read the book Hail Mary, The 444 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: Rise and Fall of the National Women's Football League. I've 445 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: read excerpts from it. I'm fascinated by the topic. I'm 446 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: really looking forward to reading it. And it was very cool. 447 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: I saw the T shirt company Homage actually reached out 448 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: to me. They created T shirts honoring the fiftieth anniversary 449 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: of the league. You can actually still grab them Homage 450 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: dot com. There's some really cool ones, the Detroit Demons 451 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: one and the Philadelphia Queen Bees especially. 452 00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: I love those. 453 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: Tea's actually got a handful of them for some friends 454 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: and it's a really cool way to keep the memory 455 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: of those teams alive and be rocking their gear. 456 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, they're so called. The Demons were hand me down 457 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 5: Lions jerseys actually, so they are the same colors as 458 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 5: Allies and the Dallas Bluebonnets played in Cowboy Stadium. 459 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 2: Awesome, very cool gift, by the way. 460 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not this is not paid for by homage, 461 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: but they should be paying me for this, like just 462 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: giving it to like I think little girls or little 463 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: boys to like have them be talking about what's that 464 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: team and what were they is really cool Before we 465 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: let you go, because I love talking to. 466 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: You about football. 467 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: I also know that y'all talk a lot about basketball 468 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: and write a lot about basketball, and particularly the intersection 469 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: of race and sports. We heard Kathy Engelbert, the commissioner 470 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: of the WNBA a couple of days ago, on a 471 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: CNBC show with a very incomplete which is the nicest 472 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: way of saying it, answer about some of the racial 473 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: rhetoric around the two star rookies of the league and 474 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: how that's affected coverage overall of the league and sort 475 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: of affected the experiences of the players, not just those rookies, 476 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: but everybody. And she put out a very flimsy statement 477 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: acknowledging maybe one major part she forgot, but certainly players. 478 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: The executive director of the WNBPA, a lot of other 479 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: people have had thoughts on what she should have said. 480 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 1: In response to the question, lindsay, this was your account 481 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: for a really long time when you worked at the 482 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Athletic and I wonder how much of a disconnect do 483 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: you think there is between the commissioner slash front office 484 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: and the coaches and players of a league that is 485 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: so known for its progressive thinking and also its collaborative 486 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: ability to rally around issues like this. 487 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. See, this is what I have a hard time 488 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 4: believing that Kady Angelbert is not aware of this because 489 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 4: the league before we got to this point where games 490 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 4: are actually being shown, games are accessible, like everything's being 491 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 4: talked about in mainstream media as far as women's basketball 492 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 4: goes nowadays, it wasn't always like that, and they, the 493 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: league it's self leverage social media to get to this point. 494 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 4: Games used to be shown on Twitter now x, you know, 495 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 4: and WNBA Twitter was this community that involved fans and players, 496 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 4: but teams as well and as well as you know, 497 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 4: the league itself too. Everything sort of interacted. And to 498 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 4: know that the WNBA got to this point where it 499 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 4: is and was able to leverage better, you know, broadcast 500 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 4: deals and get more games on television National Intellivision was 501 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 4: because of social media like that has always been part 502 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 4: of its existence since social media was you know, was invented. 503 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 4: So for her to to not be aware about how 504 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 4: things have turned or changed in regards to social media 505 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 4: is surprising to me. So either she's was being you know, 506 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 4: was purposely dodging the question, or is it is just 507 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 4: incredibly unaware of what's happening and just I've disconnected. Yeah, 508 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 4: and it just it's hard for me. It's hard for 509 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 4: me to believe that, honestly. 510 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Frank you do you have thoughts on that? 511 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think if she's going to be a white 512 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 5: commissioner of a majority black league, she needs to do 513 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 5: a better job. I think it's really really irresponsible and unacceptable. 514 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 5: I also find it completely ahistorical to continue to talk 515 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 5: about these two players, you know, let's be clear Angel 516 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 5: Reason Caitlin Clark and say that they're trying to have 517 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 5: the kind of modern and women's version of the like 518 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 5: Magic Johnson Larry Bird rivalry, and ignore the racism that 519 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 5: underlied that too. It's completely a historical to erase that 520 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 5: because yes, it was a black player and a white player, 521 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 5: and guess what comes with that often is racism and 522 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 5: that was present you know at that time too, and 523 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 5: to pretend that it wasn't and it was just about 524 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 5: the basketball really ignores the reality of that situation and 525 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 5: what Magic Johnson went through, right, and what Angel Reese 526 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 5: is going through now and the other players, you know, 527 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 5: because it's not just Angel Reese, right, d Jenny Carrington 528 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 5: has talken about this as well, Kenny. We seen Kennedy Carter, 529 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 5: you know, and so And. 530 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: To be fair, because we've made this a race and 531 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: culture war, we're assigning to players belief systems and entire 532 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: backgrounds that we know nothing about, and so we need, 533 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: like Cameron Brink to do an interview for us to 534 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: be like, oh few, yay, you know, like like that's 535 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: not fair to anyone that it's not that, you know, I. 536 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 5: Do wish Caitlyn Clark had explicitly made comment earlier. It 537 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 5: took someone reading de Johnny Carrington's tweet to her in 538 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 5: Oppressor to get like an actual clear I condemn this. 539 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 5: I feel like the people around it's you know, and 540 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 5: Caitlin Clark is young. I feel like the people around 541 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 5: her really should have been, you know, helped her get there. 542 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 5: And there's sort of been a clearer statement earlier because 543 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 5: this isn't new. It has been happening since college. And yeah, 544 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 5: it's not just Angel, it's you know, any player who 545 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 5: is black, who is masculine, who you know, because that 546 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 5: has come in as well as you know, sexuality is 547 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 5: being targeted if they even look at Caitlyn Clark wrong 548 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 5: on the court. 549 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about what 550 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: is what was the plan, and what is the plan 551 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: for Caitlyn's team and for the league as a whole, 552 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: understanding how she's been weaponized in this way. Whatever the 553 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: plan was, it hasn't worked in terms of making her 554 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: feel completely immune to it. 555 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 4: Right. 556 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: Just saying I'm just focused on basketball will only work 557 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: for so long until people believe that you know what's 558 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: going on and you're being either intentionally obtuse or you 559 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: tacitly agree because you won't speak out against it. 560 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. I just wanted to add to that. You know, 561 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 4: this league and the three of us know this. Obviously, 562 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: we've been around, we know the history. But this league 563 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 4: has often thrived and evolved because of the players. You know. 564 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 4: It's it's they haven't. It's not. It hasn't gotten to 565 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: where it is today because of the leadership. But in 566 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 4: spite of it, the players are the ones who have 567 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 4: used their voices and their platforms to enact change and 568 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 4: this is this is what's happening now with this incident 569 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 4: and what who she was given a lob, Kathy Engelbert 570 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 4: was given a LB on a television national television show 571 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 4: or whatever it was to to to meet the moment, 572 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 4: and she she missed the lab completely. And the players 573 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 4: are now scrambling picking up the ball, trying to save 574 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 4: the play. And they're the ones who are now being 575 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 4: asked about it, who are now saying what should have 576 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 4: been said in the first place, And they're the ones 577 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 4: who are going to shoulder this going forward. 578 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what's so impressive about this league is 579 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: that the players are equipped, yep, to answer and to 580 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: like you said, meet the moment in a way that 581 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: often the executives in front office are not, which is 582 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: both a result of lived experience for many of them, 583 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: but also potentially points out the disconnect between those who 584 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: are the strength of the league and those who are 585 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: running it. And what I felt about Kathy's response was 586 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: that it was so capitalistic in nature. It was how 587 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: do I spin these awful things into good for business? 588 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: And completely ignorant to the experience of the people actually 589 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: enduring the issues and also to the long term effect 590 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: it might have on the league if you just let 591 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: it go unchecked, right, Like, you could say all you 592 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: want rivalries are good, that's true, could say all you 593 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: want people like, don't want everyone to just be nice? 594 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: That's true. But also what does this league. 595 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: Become if those of us that have been covering have 596 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: been in those spaces to your point, Lindsay, have been 597 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,239 Speaker 1: on social forever, have seen so drastically a change in 598 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: how the players are being treated, talked about all of 599 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: that stuff. And it's not always good when you just 600 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: get more eyeballs. Those eyeballs and those people talk fucking 601 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: need to not be damaging the product, which is what 602 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of this year. 603 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's mental and emotional ads. It's like an adult 604 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 4: telling a child, oh, you know who's being bullied, Oh, 605 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 4: just ignore it, and not being totally naive to the 606 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 4: mental and the emotional damage that's being done. 607 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I think it's 608 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: super complicated. I think unfortunately it's really gotten in the 609 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: way of covering a lot of the basketball this year. 610 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: So it's like it needs to be addressed and handled. 611 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: You need to get out in front of it and 612 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: have a really good collaborative plan for it. 613 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: And also you need to. 614 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: Do that just so we could talk about how amazing 615 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: the basketball is and get to the good shit, because there's. 616 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: Been a lot of it this season. Thank you again 617 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: to Frankie and Lindsay for joining me. 618 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: You can read Lindsay at Awful Announcing, and you can 619 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: check out Frankie's Queer sports newsletter out of your League. 620 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: We'll link to all that in our show notes. We 621 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: have to take another break when we come back. Meichwas 622 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: in on the Kathy Engelbert interview and Siemens Bank would 623 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: like to make a deposit nex welcome back slices meish 624 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: Before we move on, I did want to ask if 625 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: you had thoughts on the Kathy engelbird thing. 626 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: I know we've been talking a lot. 627 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: Off the air about it, so wanted to give you 628 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: a chance to have a say on the era as well. 629 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 4: I appreciate it. 630 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 6: And before I get into this rant I'm about to 631 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 6: go on, I just want to say how glad I 632 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 6: am that you, me and Alex are able to have 633 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 6: those conversations like that. Is just it's enriching for me 634 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 6: as a young person in this space to know that, like, 635 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 6: there is a way to talk about these issues with 636 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 6: you know, real pure intentions behind it, so that we 637 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 6: can find solutions and find better ways of doing and being. 638 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: So just shout out to y'all. Shout out to y'all 639 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: and to you too. Oh appreciate you so listening in 640 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: on that interview. 641 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 6: I really thought something Frankie said hit the nail on 642 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 6: the head for me. They said, Kathy is a white 643 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 6: woman commissioner of a majority black league, and that is 644 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 6: a crucial position and responsibility to hold. 645 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: I feel like at this. 646 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 6: Particular juncture, it's a privilege just to sit in that seat. 647 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 6: A And let me be clear, it's also a result 648 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 6: of Kathy's white privilege that she felt comfortable not directly 649 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 6: addressing the question that CNBC's Tyler Matheson asked her, the 650 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 6: heart of which was what's your plan to combat the 651 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 6: racist and homophobic targeting that w players are dealing with? 652 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 6: What's the plan to nip all that bullshit in the bud? 653 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 6: And to me, to be audacious enough to skip over 654 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 6: the meat of that question is white privilege. Do I 655 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 6: think her intent was malicious? 656 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: No? I really don't. 657 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 6: But I think it's also important to remember, like I said, 658 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 6: this is a critical juncture for the league. There are 659 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 6: so many people I can imagine would love to sit 660 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 6: in the seat that she's sitting. 661 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 5: In right now. 662 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 6: I mean, look at Terry Jackson, who released the statement 663 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 6: She felt moved to do that and have a better 664 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 6: response to Tyler's question three whole hours before Kathy bothered 665 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 6: to put fingers to touch screen and address the question herself, 666 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 6: And so that bothers me a lot. And my last 667 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 6: point I want to. 668 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 2: Make here is I think she'd be foolish to take. 669 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 6: For granted that the majority of players that make up 670 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 6: the league feel supported, because if they don't feel supported 671 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 6: by the executive face of the league, there's a possibility 672 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 6: that the W falls lower on their priority list because 673 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 6: we're already starting to see other leagues unrivaled AU popping 674 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 6: up like wildfire. And if the goal is to keep 675 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 6: the W the premier destination for talent not just from 676 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 6: the US but around the world, players need to know 677 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 6: that the league and its commissioner understands where they're coming 678 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 6: from and has their back when shit gets chaotic. Not 679 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 6: that concerns will be met with non answers and empty platitudes. 680 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: So that's all I got to say about it. 681 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: Heard well said, and I think it comes back to 682 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: what I mentioned yesterday about what feels like a disconnect 683 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: between a league of players and coaches that seem to 684 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: really get it, and maybe a front office or at 685 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: very least a commissioner that doesn't necessarily, at least based 686 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: on what we heard from her and that follow up tweet, 687 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: I'm putting out a bat signal right now. I would 688 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: love to have someone like neck Ogou Mackay from the 689 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: Players Association, a leader in this league, really get into 690 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: it with us, because it has felt like such a 691 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: unified front. But when I think about it now, it 692 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: feels like that unified front has just been players right. 693 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: Meish like exactly exactly. 694 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: We've always heralded this league's unity, but what we're starting 695 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,479 Speaker 1: to see now is maybe that is really just those 696 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: players making those decisions and coming together. That superb documentary 697 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: The Power of the Dream, like you look at what happened. 698 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: That was just a bunch of players coming together and 699 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: literally flipping the Senate being fed up. Yeah, and I 700 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: think I've always maybe wrongly assumed that leadership over there 701 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: was was mirroring that effort by the players, And now 702 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's in spite of so. 703 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 6: It's like having a star player on your team and 704 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 6: your coach has never played or coached a game in 705 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 6: their lives. You get to ride their coat tails. It's 706 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 6: exactly like that. 707 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 708 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna keep talking about this for sure, but 709 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,479 Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you had to say, Mesh. 710 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. 711 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: We're going to lighten up the mood for a second 712 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: because earlier this week we did ask you for the 713 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: absolutely worst possible sponsor for a women's sports team. This, 714 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: of course, was the result of me going to dinner 715 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: with a bunch of women's sports exec including the president 716 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: of The Valkyrie, who was about to announce a jersey sponsor, 717 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: and I threw out, you know, Lover's Lane, Kay, why delly? 718 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: It got us talking about some of the worst, and 719 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: y'all came with some good ones. Pamela Mudway emailed us 720 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: and kept it short and sweet and just said, I 721 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: mean Siemens Bank, that is a good one. At Kenny 722 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: Metrov wrote and said Shepherd's Men's Wear, that's the actual 723 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: clothing line by Harrison, Butker that is wrong, that's so 724 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: wrong at Drew underscore TNB gotta be Summer's Eve, which 725 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: honestly reminds me of when Michael Jordan was on Saturday 726 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 1: Ight Live and he said, you know, sometimes I made 727 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: some bad decisions about the sponsorships I did, and then 728 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,919 Speaker 1: I had him walking around a lake talking to someone 729 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: about that not so. 730 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: Fresh feeling MJ at Troy T. Carlson said, rufe and al. 731 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: He also said, I'm probably put on a list now 732 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: just for typing out that word. You probably are. And 733 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: also you took a real dark turn there, Troy, but 734 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: you're not wrong. That would be an absolutely terrible sponsor 735 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: at r J Slivan nine. The RNC wouldn't be great 736 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: and shout out to Patrick Netherton. He reminded me of 737 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: that SNL ESPN Classic set of sketches. It was Jason 738 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: Sadaikas and Will Forte playing broadcasters and from all the 739 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: different ESPN Classic Women's competitions. They had ridiculous sponsors and 740 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: some of the lines I'm actually surprised as I was 741 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: reading them back that they were on broadcast television, even 742 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: late night here's a couple of them, tam PACs helping 743 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: you relax when mother nature attacks your slacks. Stay Free 744 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: Pad's long drive competition. 745 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 2: When you have your monthly Boo boo. 746 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: Put these by your who who Stay free Maxi pads 747 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: the downstairs patch for your baby hatch. I see London, 748 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: I see China, I see one happy vagina, Stay free 749 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: Maxi pats. When your uterine lining looks like the elevator 750 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: from the Shining And my favorite Ky Jelly Ladies shot 751 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: put Championship, No for play today. Hey, that's okay, Ky Jelly, 752 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: protect her from your girth with the greatest lube on earth. 753 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 1: When you're seeing sparks where your penis parks, Ky Jelly, 754 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: make some room for Paco. 755 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 2: Put some sauce on that taco. 756 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: Oh honestly, that might have been where my brain went 757 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: when I originally suggested that the Valkyries go with Ky 758 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: Jelly as a Jersey sponsor. I mean, you can bet 759 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: that roughly thirty percent of my brain power is just 760 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: dedicated to Old Saturn Night Live sketches. 761 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: Thank you as always for chiming in. We love to 762 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 2: hear from you slices. 763 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: Just remember we love that you're listening, but we always 764 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: want you to get in the game every day too, 765 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: So today's good gameplay of the day is very easy. 766 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: Just buy the book Hail Mary, The Rise and Fall 767 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,439 Speaker 1: of the National Women's Football League. 768 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 2: We'll put a link in the show notes. Check it out, 769 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: and we love to hear from you. 770 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: To hit us up good game at Wondermedia neetwork dot 771 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two 772 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: two o four fifty seventy. Don't forget to subscribe, rate 773 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: and review my little slices just like this. The corn 774 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: Maze at the Apple Orchard where I got married, rating 775 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: five out of five Cornstocks review. Shout out to County 776 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: Line Orchard in northwest Indiana for this year's corn Maze. 777 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: Per their website quote at Countyline Orchard, we're celebrating women's 778 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: sports by designing our maze in the likeness of Caitlin Clark. 779 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: Her incredible success and impact on the WNBA is a 780 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: huge inspiration and as a proud Indiana business, we wanted 781 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 1: to pay tribute. 782 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 2: To her achievements. End quote. You gotta love this amazing 783 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 2: support of women's sports. Oh she could read that pun 784 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: because it works both ways. You know corn maze, mazees 785 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 2: corn anyway. 786 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: Clark got a butter statue in Iowa, if you remember that, 787 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: and then she got a corn maze in Indiana. 788 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 2: This is big Midwest energy. I don't think you can 789 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: get a duo of Midwest tributes that are stronger than that. 790 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: Also, you know, ratings, attendance, merge, media coverage. It's all 791 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: well and good, but you know that women's sports have 792 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: really made it when they're breaking. 793 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 2: Through on the old Fall festival circuit. 794 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: Next up, we'll get to carve Caitlin's face in a 795 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: pumpkin and you old pumpkin spice latte with her face 796 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: in the foam. 797 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 2: The PSL game. That's where the real money is. 798 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: Now. It's your turn, rate and review with love and 799 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: hope from your childless dog mom. 800 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 2: We'll see you tomorrow. 801 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: Good game, Frankie, Good Game, Lindsay h Air bawling layups 802 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: on important issues. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an 803 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports 804 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, 805 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by 806 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, Our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. 807 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan. 808 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 2: And Emily Rudder. 809 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez and 810 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your 811 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain