Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
Speaker 1: and Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun.
Speaker 1: Today we have on the show a very dear friend
Speaker 1: of mine, the incredible makeup artist and founder of cl Cosmetics,
Speaker 1: Niki Derust. From watching her mom work in her at
Speaker 1: home salon to creating beauty looks for some Hollywood's most
Speaker 1: beautiful faces, Niki has truly forged her own path as
Speaker 1: an artist. Niki is the master of enhancing natural beauty,
Speaker 1: so her evolution into creating cl Cosmetics, a color cosmetics
Speaker 1: brand with broad spectrum SPF, my favorite and clean and
Speaker 1: non for clogging ingredients, was honestly a no brainer for her.
Speaker 1: Niki is so beyond talented and very business savvy and
Speaker 1: beyond beautiful, I might add, and I cannot wait for you.
Speaker 2: To hear her story. So let's jump right in. You
Speaker 2: are going to love her.
Speaker 1: So, first of all, I'm so excited to have you
Speaker 1: on you know, Climbing in Hills. I've had so many
Speaker 1: people you know on the pod, and you know, for me,
Speaker 1: it's about not just celebrating my incredibly badass successful friends,
Speaker 1: but it's really talking about the journey of how we
Speaker 1: all get to where we are because it's not ever
Speaker 1: the same, it's not ever easy.
Speaker 2: I love you, but b I've known.
Speaker 1: You, you know, before you were famous.
Speaker 3: You from one Caius was so little, Yes.
Speaker 2: You, Caius was probably like in a high chair.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, yeah, so that's crazy. And I
Speaker 1: remember you sitting in my old house with me in
Speaker 1: my bathroom, and I remember very clearly you came in
Speaker 1: one day because you're always so positive, and you came
Speaker 1: in like this light all the time, this like you know,
Speaker 1: gorgeous being, but always just very chill, very calm, very
Speaker 1: like never a frenetic energy, which is I think what
Speaker 1: made me gravitate towards working with you. Obviously you made
Speaker 1: me feel beautiful and all of that, but like for
Speaker 1: me hair makeup and all that. That's the most intimate
Speaker 1: person in your life outside of your family, because they're
Speaker 1: in your face, they're in your space, they're literally in
Speaker 1: your bathroom, right Like, so whoever I have around me
Speaker 1: in that, you know, in that position is always very
Speaker 1: sacred and the energy is always really important in your
Speaker 1: energy as much as your talent for me was like
Speaker 1: this is my person. But we obviously became very close
Speaker 1: and I think very trusting of each other. So give me,
Speaker 1: like the how NICKI became NICKI like, what for you
Speaker 1: as a little person?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you know, dating back my mom. My
Speaker 3: mom was a hairdresser. So I grew up in the
Speaker 3: late eighties in a basement Okay, I'm making myself so
Speaker 3: younger early eighties and in the basement of my mom
Speaker 3: doing hair. So I've always been around beauty and always
Speaker 3: loved it.
Speaker 2: And wow, So in your house, in your house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a salon in our house.
Speaker 2: Wow. And where were you in Utah? In Utah, which
Speaker 2: I think is key.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so looking at it now, it's funny what
Speaker 3: we know now, Like maybe those chemicals from the perm
Speaker 3: for me, But I'm here to tell the tell so.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe not. We'll never know.
Speaker 3: We'll never know, we'll never know, We'll never know. So
Speaker 3: I've always been around beauty. I've always loved it. I
Speaker 3: don't think it was ever a question for me, like
Speaker 3: what I was going to do with my life. And
Speaker 3: I came from a hairdressing background, so I was doing
Speaker 3: hair and makeup at the same time. I was like
Speaker 3: a counter girl at Nordstrum, you know, in the early
Speaker 3: two thousands and in Utah, and I remember looking through magazines,
Speaker 3: looking at covers of magazines and being like I can
Speaker 3: do that. I want to do that, and then thinking like,
Speaker 3: well what do I have to do to do that?
Speaker 3: I have to live in La or New York. So
Speaker 3: I mean it's a long story, but essentially a lot
Speaker 3: of stocking and a lot of like you know, making
Speaker 3: myself available to people that could be mentors for me.
Speaker 3: So early on it was a man named Howard McLaren
Speaker 3: that now owns the hair care company Rnco.
Speaker 2: He used to my absolute favorites.
Speaker 3: I know, it's a great brand, and he used to
Speaker 3: be at Bumble and Bumble. So I went to a
Speaker 3: Bumble and Bumble class, got his mailing address like snail
Speaker 3: mail him a letter in the mail and said that
Speaker 3: I was going to be in LA which was a
Speaker 3: total lie.
Speaker 1: And he so once he was like yeah, and I'm
Speaker 1: totally going to be there, and I'm so going to
Speaker 1: be in La.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3: Once I got the date, I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be in town that day. I'd love to
Speaker 3: tell me to you. So book the ticket went to La.
Speaker 1: He is, that's so scary. Yeah, I'm scared. You probably
Speaker 1: didn't have a place to stay. Did you know anyone here?
Speaker 3: I remember renting a car and it was the first
Speaker 3: time I ever drove a car on an LA Freeway
Speaker 3: and it was so scary.
Speaker 1: But you were like Alicia Silverstone and clueless. Yes, but Nikki,
Speaker 1: does it make you feel better that I'm still like
Speaker 1: that on a freeway?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: It does. Actually, yeah, define but ignorance is bliss right,
Speaker 3: Like I had the goal and I was just like
Speaker 3: eyes on the prize. So he agreed to mentor me.
Speaker 3: And he was like, when can you be here? That
Speaker 3: was like in October, and I was like, oh, I
Speaker 3: can be there by January. So I closed up my
Speaker 3: whole life in Utah. I was still working hairdresser, moved
Speaker 3: to La got an apartment in Koreatown. This was before ubers, so.
Speaker 2: We walked everywhere.
Speaker 3: No, I literally didn't leave my apartment because also I
Speaker 3: had no money.
Speaker 2: So I was going to ask you, how did you
Speaker 2: even pay for your life?
Speaker 3: Well? I bought tuna from Trader Joe's and kale and
Speaker 3: air popcorn and still eating healthy by the way, and
Speaker 3: I had no Internet. I just used the Internet from
Speaker 3: the building and I just decided to come and try
Speaker 3: to say yes to everything. So, like early on, it
Speaker 3: was trying to meet like directors, producers, whatever, which there's
Speaker 3: a lot of funny stories wrapped up in that because
Speaker 3: little did I know, these directors thought we were like
Speaker 3: going on dates, and I thought it was a business meeting.
Speaker 2: Wait.
Speaker 1: Note to listeners, when you're trying to hustle for jobs,
Speaker 1: be very clear, it's not a date.
Speaker 2: It's I want to do makeup or hair on set
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: This was actually funny because the one of the guys
Speaker 3: invited me to Soho House, which I had no idea
Speaker 3: what that was. And my friend was like, oh, you're
Speaker 3: going to Soho House and I was like, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 3: And I got off the elevator and this was like
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven, and I went into the restaurant and
Speaker 3: George Clooney and Cindy Crawford were there, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: my gosh. And then Janis Dickinson was walking around with
Speaker 3: a martini and solet Moonfry was there and yeah, and
Speaker 3: I've told her this story. I'm like, I was so
Speaker 3: starstruck because Punky Brewster is like whatever, of course, So anyways,
Speaker 3: you know, long story short, I just hustled. I was
Speaker 3: doing whatever job someone would say yes too. Back then,
Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of e commerce for Playboy,
Speaker 3: not as model, but.
Speaker 2: Glad you clarified that. Not that I would have judged.
Speaker 3: But like e commerce, you know, Capri Sun commercials, like
Speaker 3: anything I could get. And I actually remember, I don't
Speaker 3: even know how I got to you, but I remember
Speaker 3: when I had the opportunity to do your makeup. I
Speaker 3: was freaking out because I had also watched your show
Speaker 3: and I was I was like, I can't believe I'm
Speaker 3: going to do Rachel Zoe's makeup, Like this is insane.
Speaker 3: But what I want to share with everyone, because I
Speaker 3: was reflecting on this earlier today, is like I'll never
Speaker 3: forget it. You came outside, you had aid inch heels on,
Speaker 3: and you insisted to help me carry my kit in,
Speaker 3: and it was like your cobblestone driveway and you. I
Speaker 3: had never had anyone ever come outside and want to
Speaker 3: help me, and I was like, wow, this is a
Speaker 3: really special person. I was like, she is so kind
Speaker 3: and you were always like that to me, and I
Speaker 3: remember even telling you my dreams. Like I remember being like, oh,
Speaker 3: I want to meet Charlotte Tilbury or want to be
Speaker 3: like you're like, well I know her, like oh, let
Speaker 3: me set you up with her, blah blah blah. And
Speaker 3: so I think there, especially in our industry, there are
Speaker 3: connectors that kind of, you know, help you on your journey.
Speaker 3: And you were definitely one of those people for me.
Speaker 3: And so it was just like you feel like you're
Speaker 3: like climbing this mountain, mountain yes, and just being open
Speaker 3: and saying yes and trying and failing and you know,
Speaker 3: it does all just happen. You just have to keep
Speaker 3: like that forward motion of like belief in yourself and
Speaker 3: then yeah, from there, like it kind of ug.
Speaker 1: Remember our ug moment, Yeah, I remember that. That was
Speaker 1: the most fun shoot ever, by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fun and not open all as zoop. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that I don't want to downplay
Speaker 1: is the fear that I think so many of the
Speaker 1: women I've had on that have come from you know,
Speaker 1: small towns in the middle of the country or like
Speaker 1: had a similar kind of moment where they could easily
Speaker 1: stay where they were have a career right, Like you
Speaker 1: could have stayed working in a hairson and doing your
Speaker 1: thing in Utah, and like, you know, I think we
Speaker 1: all know, you know, most of us would would know,
Speaker 1: you know, Jenatkin's story of coming out of Utah, right,
Speaker 1: my friend Melinda Maria Jory coming out of Spokane, Washington
Speaker 1: and left there at sixteen, and she was like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to stay here, Like and I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, having grown up in the sort
Speaker 1: of try state or like, you know, in the main
Speaker 1: centers of where these things happen, I really like to
Speaker 1: give so much credit to having that courage of It's
Speaker 1: not like you had wads of cash in your pocket, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to La like you know Demi
Speaker 1: who is on your like played game shows, to like
Speaker 1: get a car or like fund her first store, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think I think it's so important to recognize
Speaker 1: what that takes. And now you going from you know,
Speaker 1: big celebrity makeup artists to like starting your own brand,
Speaker 1: and and I want to talk about that because that
Speaker 1: in itself is scary and brutal and terrifying, and you know,
Speaker 1: and entrepreneurial life, as anyone would say the highest, the
Speaker 1: highs or the highest, and the lows are the lowest,
Speaker 1: and the fear really never stops right. So that also
Speaker 1: takes a lot, because you could have easily just said, okay.
Speaker 2: I've, I've made it right.
Speaker 1: Like i've i've, I'm working beyond my dreams of the
Speaker 1: kind of makeup artist or hairstyleist that I want to be,
Speaker 1: which now you choose only makeup right makeup first. This
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll always I'll always twirl your hair for sure.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but and fun fact, I also like begged
Speaker 1: her to do my kid's hair when they were little,
Speaker 1: because no one cuts a guy's hair better than Nikki.
Speaker 2: She won't talk about that, but that's also her like
Speaker 2: fun fact, hidden talent.
Speaker 1: But but I want to talk about that because you
Speaker 1: have been climbing this mountain for a long time, right
Speaker 1: and now many would argue, like you're doing some of
Speaker 1: the biggest stars in the world, some of those talented
Speaker 1: actors out there.
Speaker 2: You know, why do you want to have a product line?
Speaker 1: Why did you start sal Because it's terrifying and it
Speaker 1: takes a lot.
Speaker 3: Well, I think part of it ignorance is bliss, right,
Speaker 3: like you don't know until you know. But yeah, it's
Speaker 3: that also has always been a dream of mine without
Speaker 3: really realizing it actually to be. Just like when I
Speaker 3: was eighteen, I remember flipping through a beauty magazine, so
Speaker 3: it wasn't it was more of an industry magazine that
Speaker 3: I was flipping through, and I saw this page that
Speaker 3: was like you can have your own makeup line. It
Speaker 3: was essentially a white label advertisement, like put your name
Speaker 3: on this packaging, and I was like, but it was
Speaker 3: more the aha moment of like, oh, wait, I can
Speaker 3: have a makeup line Like that idea had never you know,
Speaker 3: even been in my brain before. And so because you know,
Speaker 3: back then, you're just thinking, oh, you have to be
Speaker 3: an Esta Lauder or a ma you know, like how
Speaker 3: would you ever be able to do that? And so
Speaker 3: I would always say like, oh, I'm going to have
Speaker 3: my own makeup line one day, not even knowing what
Speaker 3: I meant that I was saying. And then I think
Speaker 3: it was through kind of experience in the industry getting
Speaker 3: hired by a lot of bigger brands to go, you know,
Speaker 3: back to the latter lab to help them make lipsticks
Speaker 3: or doing all these things, and people that were in
Speaker 3: the industry like I remember chemist being like, oh, she
Speaker 3: has an eye for this or she's really good at it.
Speaker 3: I had what I was doing. The first time I
Speaker 3: into a latter lab. I was like, they could tell
Speaker 3: you make it, baby, like let's go.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm one hundred percent you did you have
Speaker 1: like the imposter syndrome?
Speaker 3: Like I think I was so just like I have
Speaker 3: no idea what's going on. So I'm just going to
Speaker 3: roll with it. And then once I got the encouragement
Speaker 3: where they were like, oh, yeah, she's really good at
Speaker 3: color and she knows what she's doing, I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 3: I guess I'm good at color. So a lot of
Speaker 3: it was learning on the job. But then also just
Speaker 3: kind of you know, I love business and I think about,
Speaker 3: you know, my path and how I can like really
Speaker 3: give back, and it's through products that I create. And
Speaker 3: also you know, what they stand for, what they do
Speaker 3: for other people, because I think that even from a
Speaker 3: young age, you know, I grew up Mormon, always grew
Speaker 3: up going to church, and I remember in my teens,
Speaker 3: I would mentor all the younger girls in younger grade
Speaker 3: below me, and I would do these personal care classes,
Speaker 3: so I would teach them how to take care of
Speaker 3: their skin, you know, a little bit of makeup, you know,
Speaker 3: how to care for their hair. So it's always been
Speaker 3: in me to kind of give that gift of likeating
Speaker 3: and teaching and making you know, ultimately people feel more confident,
Speaker 3: which comes through glam.
Speaker 2: Right by the way, it really does.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I would say that your
Speaker 1: signature because you know, I do think look as a stylist,
Speaker 1: as a hairstylest does a makeup artist, there is definitely
Speaker 1: like a signature, like I know when you're doing someone's makeup,
Speaker 1: you know I do, and you know, but I obviously
Speaker 1: am in the industry, but I think I think there's
Speaker 1: like you know, when Charlotte Tilbury does someone right, like
Speaker 1: you know it's going to be bronzy and smoky and
Speaker 1: glimmery and shimmery and all the things, right, yeah, But
Speaker 1: I feel like with you, it's it's I always know
Speaker 1: the skin, yeah, right, I always know the skin, your
Speaker 1: skin first, right, You're always skinned for always an eyebrow
Speaker 1: game changer.
Speaker 2: I love my Nikey eyebrow.
Speaker 1: And and I think I think the reason that certain
Speaker 1: women choose to use you is because what you do
Speaker 1: is you enhance their natural beauty. You you you take
Speaker 1: the natural beauty and you run with that, rather than
Speaker 1: saying I'm giving you a new face tonight, which by
Speaker 1: the way, there's no right or wrong, right, like some
Speaker 1: bo go out on a red carpet and they're like,
Speaker 1: pound my face until I have a cheekbone as high
Speaker 1: as Cindy Crawford's you know, right, So you know, so
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that because I also think
Speaker 1: you live what you preath, right, because that's the first
Speaker 1: thing when I see you.
Speaker 2: It's your skin.
Speaker 1: It's that we skin with a pinched cheek and like
Speaker 1: you know, and the lip and the lip is a
Speaker 1: deeper shade of like a like a stating kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk to me about that.
Speaker 3: I think that it's funny because you end up doing
Speaker 3: your signature without really really realizing it's your signatures, why
Speaker 3: it's your signature and help people will start to like
Speaker 3: be like, oh, oh oh, it's her skin. It's it's
Speaker 3: there's like and I remember, you know, because I just
Speaker 3: do what I do, and you know, the clients that
Speaker 3: have worked with me for the first time, Like I
Speaker 3: remember the first time I worked with Phoebe waller Bridge.
Speaker 3: She took the compact and she's looking at herself and
Speaker 3: she's like, my skin has never looked like this, Like
Speaker 3: this is insane, and I'm just kind of bewildered being like, well,
Speaker 3: what do you mean.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just and Phoebe Denniver too, because because
Speaker 1: she's someone that likes no makeup, makeup, she wants very
Speaker 1: minimal makeup, and you know, she clearly loves what you're
Speaker 1: doing because you're just bringing She's such a natural beauty,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think you know, and I have
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for that because as someone that
Speaker 1: loves makeup, you know, I do you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting because, like I guess, I know this sounds silly,
Speaker 1: but what do you do if someone's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: like I want a lot of makeup tonight, will you
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll do it. Like my version of it still right,
Speaker 3: still going to prep the skin with a lot of skincare,
Speaker 3: so even with a lot of makeup over the top,
Speaker 3: the radiance is coming through the skin, so it still
Speaker 3: has a little bit of that dimension to do it.
Speaker 3: Like I remember, I remember when I was at Venice
Speaker 3: Film Vistival with Sophia Richie and it was the first
Speaker 3: time I had ever worked with her. This was a
Speaker 3: couple This was probably like six years ago, and she
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I really like a good bake, like
Speaker 3: the bake, and I was like, yeah, totally like love
Speaker 3: a bake. I had no idea what baking was. I
Speaker 3: was like, I went to the bathroom. I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: let me just use a restaurant before we start, and
Speaker 3: I go on my phone on YouTube and I was like,
Speaker 3: what is baking or how to bake? And I'm like
Speaker 3: watching a video in the bathroom, like okay, this is
Speaker 3: how you bake. And then I go out and I'm
Speaker 3: just like doing the thing. So like I can adapt.
Speaker 2: It's not just that mean like pounding. That means like
Speaker 2: that pound.
Speaker 3: The face, like they put the layer of powder that
Speaker 3: kind of sits on the face while you're doing the
Speaker 3: rest of the makeup and then you brush it off
Speaker 3: at the end. Got it?
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 1: God, that's so funny. I would never know that. Now
Speaker 1: I know what a bake is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like I can adapt, But ultimately I'm lucky
Speaker 3: at this point that I do feel like most people
Speaker 3: are booking me because yeah, like it's like the difference
Speaker 3: of I haven't worked with Kim Kardashian, but when you
Speaker 3: see her full glam, but then you also see her
Speaker 3: with like the no makeup look. Both are singing, but
Speaker 3: I would do the one that's more of the no
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now, so are there moments that you would want
Speaker 1: to share or be willing to share of like in
Speaker 1: your business life and starting your brand, like did you
Speaker 1: fall before.
Speaker 2: You had success?
Speaker 1: Because I know, you know what was so exciting for me,
Speaker 1: because you know, I'll always be your biggest cheerleader, you know,
Speaker 1: was I've now had a few makeup artists come to
Speaker 1: do my makeup and in their kids was cl and
Speaker 1: they love it, and they started, you know, and they
Speaker 1: had like Armani and Nars and all the things in
Speaker 1: their kid and they were putting sale on me. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I need to take
Speaker 1: a video for Niki. Oh my god, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I'm so excited, you know. And so
Speaker 1: for me seeing it in the wild with you not
Speaker 1: being attached to it, I like feel like a proud mom.
Speaker 2: You know. I'm sort of like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Because obviously makeup artists choose from a hundred brands that
Speaker 1: they have, right so, and they're sent free things and
Speaker 1: or whatever. But to choose what they use is ultimately
Speaker 1: that's the win. The biggest compliment I could is yeah
Speaker 1: it is. And so I want to talk about that
Speaker 1: because the thing that they're seeing they love the most
Speaker 1: is the foundation is the skin. So I think that's
Speaker 1: the dream and so you know, would you say, because look,
Speaker 1: I also want to say that you also have not
Speaker 1: that you haven't earned them, and not that they don't
Speaker 1: love you, and not that they don't choose you, but
Speaker 1: you also happen to have the most beautiful muses of
Speaker 1: all of you know, Body, Rosy, Phoebe Denniver. I mean,
Speaker 1: the list goes on. It's like these are natural beauties.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, I always laugh with my team.
Speaker 1: I'm like, of course Nicki's.
Speaker 2: Doing her face.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah.
Speaker 1: She's She's like she's like a stunning swan and now Nicky's.
Speaker 3: Going to just do her likely totally.
Speaker 2: Did you have fails before you had success?
Speaker 3: Totally? I've totally had I mean, you know, I had
Speaker 3: a completely different brand before cl You know, that was
Speaker 3: a big that was a big gut punch.
Speaker 2: But I've had many I got you know that.
Speaker 3: That's what's so interesting is like you have really kept
Speaker 3: me on course through all of the years because like
Speaker 3: I could always come to you and be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is what's going on and You're like yep, yep, yep,
Speaker 3: done that.
Speaker 2: Wait you got fucked by your partner?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: Like what somebody advantage of you because you're a woman wet,
Speaker 1: like someone thought you were dumb and you're not, like wait,
Speaker 1: what do you mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Like so that's always comforting to know like you're not
Speaker 3: on this island alone and it's it's a very common
Speaker 3: thing and and also fying nonetheless terrifying them. It's all vulnerable.
Speaker 3: It's all terrifying in the moment. Like I look back
Speaker 3: at that time when I, you know, lost the first
Speaker 3: company and I was like a frail human that was
Speaker 3: like you know, I, we're like a shell of yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the life was gone out of me. And even back
Speaker 3: then I was like, oh, well, okay, I don't know
Speaker 3: if I can do this again. But it was kind
Speaker 3: of my community coming around me. And when I realized like, oh,
Speaker 3: all of these people are like gunning for me, and
Speaker 3: they believe in me and they want me to succeed
Speaker 3: and they see something in me that kind of I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, people care, like they want this, you know,
Speaker 3: And so I think it was that, but also not
Speaker 3: letting that moment define me, like I was like bigger
Speaker 3: than this and I still have more to give and
Speaker 3: you know, I know I can do this and so
Speaker 3: I would say from a business side, that was, you know,
Speaker 3: a really big one. And I still think, you know,
Speaker 3: even now owning a new company, there's struggles every day,
Speaker 3: and I think that as an entrepreneur, that's the big
Speaker 3: learning is, like I expect a problem every day, So
Speaker 3: it's more about just like how you're managing problems and
Speaker 3: if things are good, I'm almost creeped out, like I'm
Speaker 3: kind of like, well.
Speaker 1: Now, you know, it's hard. It's hard to not get
Speaker 1: like that, you know. I think it's finding that balance
Speaker 1: of waking up excited and motivated and also like having
Speaker 1: the fire extinguisher in your hand right at all times,
Speaker 1: ready to go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, nothing's like, nothing's linear. And that's what
Speaker 3: I tell my team a lot is I was like,
Speaker 3: I feel like with this business, like we're in a
Speaker 3: video game, Like we're kind of like Mario trying to
Speaker 3: get through dodging the fireballs, you know, like do it,
Speaker 3: you know, getting to the next level. And so some
Speaker 3: of it's a blast, some of it's hard, but you
Speaker 3: just kind of like keep going every single day and
Speaker 3: I'm sure there'll be more things that I'll be calling
Speaker 3: you about being like right.
Speaker 1: Listen, you're you're in a very exciting time in your life.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think I think having
Speaker 1: the nerve, the guts, the ambition to go through losing
Speaker 1: a brand or just having bad partners or but you know,
Speaker 1: I think the reality of it is, no one's immune
Speaker 1: to it. We've seen more of our friends than not
Speaker 1: go through it. And you know, sometimes the money runs out. Sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, you get screwed over by your partner. Sometimes
Speaker 1: the person you trusted most becomes the person that is
Speaker 1: leading the charge of screwing you over. And I think,
Speaker 1: I think if you take away those things, it's like
Speaker 1: you got.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, Bobby Brown got on stage.
Speaker 1: Two summers ago at this Venture Summit, Female Venture Summit,
Speaker 1: and she said to.
Speaker 2: Me, and everyone's like, oh my god, you're Bobby Brown.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you've launched not just your own line,
Speaker 1: but now you're doing Jones Road.
Speaker 2: To such a huge success. And she goes, are you okay?
Speaker 1: She's like, I had like three failed before Jones Road.
Speaker 1: You just don't know about them because they failed, like
Speaker 1: you know, And she's like, but I learned from those.
Speaker 2: To get to Jones Road, right, But you know, I
Speaker 2: think it's to me.
Speaker 1: I think if there's any takeaway from having so many
Speaker 1: incredibly successful women on climbing and heels, the takeaway is
Speaker 1: that you don't stop. You don't stop right because you cry,
Speaker 1: we get scared, you feel alone, you feel I mean,
Speaker 1: the feelings are just next level, right, like of wanting
Speaker 1: to crawl up, wanting to but you can't, right, and
Speaker 1: you can't.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: I think it's the takeaways from the failures that help
Speaker 1: you get to you know. And some people say, don't
Speaker 1: call them failures, you know, I do, just because to
Speaker 1: me it just feels like, okay, yeah, that was a'n
Speaker 1: of it fail And you could also say like, okay,
Speaker 1: that was an insane learning lesson.
Speaker 2: And it's both, right.
Speaker 3: That's okay. Yeah, I think it's definitely both. But the
Speaker 3: cool thing about it is that in doing it a
Speaker 3: second time, a lot of the things that were really
Speaker 3: hard the first time are now muscle memory for the
Speaker 3: second time. And I'm sor you know that being a mom,
Speaker 3: it's like like, oh, yeah, I've done this before, Like
Speaker 3: I can figure this out so much faster. So I
Speaker 3: think that's amazing. And but it's always going there's always
Speaker 3: going to be things because even when you're doing product launches,
Speaker 3: you know, knock wood, but not everything's going to be
Speaker 3: like a slam dunk like you know, and there's always
Speaker 3: going to be something. And so I also think it's
Speaker 3: just it's data.
Speaker 2: All of it is highs lows.
Speaker 3: It's just like it's feeding you information so that you
Speaker 3: can navigate through the journey into what's next, you know, and.
Speaker 1: By the way, what is next for you? Because I
Speaker 1: know it's next, but what's next? And what are your what.
Speaker 2: Are your what are you most excited about?
Speaker 1: And what are your greatest sort of fears or what
Speaker 1: you're most excited about?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 3: What's next is that I'm going to be a mother
Speaker 3: next year.
Speaker 2: Yes, you are going.
Speaker 3: My next product launch is a baby. No, I have
Speaker 3: actually have two product launches before the baby comes. But
Speaker 3: I'm having a baby boy in April, and so.
Speaker 2: Nice little aries boy coming in hot like as mama and.
Speaker 3: Like his mentors guy exactly exactly, So that will be interesting.
Speaker 3: But I'm ready. I'm ready, but I'm not. My mom
Speaker 3: is going crazy because she's like sending me car seats
Speaker 3: and cribs and all that, and I'm like, Mom, we're
Speaker 3: going to deal with that next year. She's like, what
Speaker 3: do you mean. I was like, I got like, we
Speaker 3: got stuff to do before I got to figure out
Speaker 3: what is going to be and and Amazon two day delivery,
Speaker 3: Like we'll be fine. So that's going to be a
Speaker 3: cool level up for me. But it's kind of cool
Speaker 3: too because I think I have so many friends obviously.
Speaker 3: I mean you were also a huge mentor in that.
Speaker 3: I remember when I had I was in no relationship,
Speaker 3: no partner, and I was kind of in my cool
Speaker 3: girl phase of like, yeah, I don't know if I
Speaker 3: want to have kids, Like I just oh, I was
Speaker 3: just going to call you out on that, yeah, like whatever,
Speaker 3: like I'm so good and I'm just this entrepreneur girl.
Speaker 3: And you were like, if you can freeze your eggs,
Speaker 3: like You're like, even if you don't know you want
Speaker 3: to have kids, just please do that. And I really
Speaker 3: took that to heart. I mean, luckily, this pregnancy is natural,
Speaker 3: but I'm the feeling of having those and knowing that
Speaker 3: I'm forty and if I want to keep growing the
Speaker 3: family that you know, I could.
Speaker 2: Have the option. The option. Yeah, yeah, I wish someone
Speaker 2: take that to me. But if but if I did,
Speaker 2: I'd have like six kids right now, so exactly, so
Speaker 2: maybe that maybe maybe we're good. Maybe we're good.
Speaker 3: I mean hurt wants or I don't know, if that's.
Speaker 2: Listen girl, do it? Do it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: See, I let's have one and then and then decide.
Speaker 3: I just told him that. I'm like, let's get through
Speaker 3: one and then we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, your Jewish mom will nudge you into the
Speaker 1: second for sure, But I mean after that, that's all
Speaker 1: you because then I can't take responsible for.
Speaker 3: The insanity that ensues. But I think even with that,
Speaker 3: so I have mentors. I saw Jasmine who's the owner
Speaker 3: of Colt Gaya.
Speaker 2: The other Yeah, and we just had another one, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, but we were at this baby event. We were
Speaker 3: at Sophia or Richie did this new clothing, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: we were there and I was talking to her and
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, I'm five and a half months
Speaker 3: holding my little belly and she shows up and I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 3: what are you doing? She's like next Thursday, and I
Speaker 3: was like what is going on?
Speaker 2: I was like, what are you doing here?
Speaker 3: Because she's like it's her third third and I was like, well,
Speaker 3: what are you doing here? She's like, what do you mean.
Speaker 3: I'm just like I'm hanging out. And I was like,
Speaker 3: that is a queen right there. I was like okay,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, and I was talking to her about it,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm really nervous, like how do
Speaker 3: you do it? Like She's like, Nikki, it's your It's
Speaker 3: going to be your superpower, you know, like because you
Speaker 3: just get in this rhythm and you have like your
Speaker 3: mom's stuff going on, your business stuff going on. And
Speaker 3: she's like, think about it when you have a day
Speaker 3: off and you don't do anything, how tired you are
Speaker 3: because you're not doing anything. She's like, so the busyness,
Speaker 3: you'll get in a groove. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: that inspires me to not have a fear around how
Speaker 3: to manage all of it.
Speaker 1: You're gonna do it with such grace and stride and
Speaker 1: it's you're just going to figure it out as you
Speaker 1: go because that's what we do. There's no rule, buck,
Speaker 1: don't read the books, just do it and follow your gut,
Speaker 1: and you're going to do everything the way you want
Speaker 1: on your terms. And you know, my greatest advice for
Speaker 1: new moms is just don't listen to anybody like listen. Like,
Speaker 1: if you ask for the advice right, people will give it.
Speaker 1: But there are going to be more often than not
Speaker 1: people that give you advice that you don't ask for it.
Speaker 1: And you can't take that because all those things start
Speaker 1: to become this jigsaw puzzle in your head.
Speaker 2: Wait do I sleepchain?
Speaker 3: Wait?
Speaker 2: Do I not do I bed sleep? Do I not
Speaker 2: do I best in it? Do I not do I
Speaker 2: feed them this? Do I give them nuts? Do I?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: You know, and you're just.
Speaker 1: Going to follow your gut with your child, and that's it.
Speaker 2: That's the right answer.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you need help, you have a
Speaker 1: group of a thousand amazing moms around you that can help.
Speaker 1: But until then, you follow you, you do you, and
Speaker 1: it will work best. And you know, I think the
Speaker 1: working thing, it's all hard, right, Like it's all hard.
Speaker 1: I actually think that the juggle of motherhood and working
Speaker 1: makes you better and more efficient with your life and
Speaker 1: your time, you know, I really do. And it's not
Speaker 1: even on purpose, it's just what happens, you know, And
Speaker 1: I don't think you realize that there was a lot
Speaker 1: of time you were kind of wasting and now you
Speaker 1: don't waste any time.
Speaker 2: There's everything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, it's also okay to have
Speaker 1: a down day where you need to not be a
Speaker 1: mom and not work.
Speaker 2: That's okay too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's it's been really interesting because
Speaker 3: I've always grown up around kids and babies and I'm
Speaker 3: really such a kid person. Yeah, I'm super comfortable around it.
Speaker 3: But it just never it was it was just I
Speaker 3: was have always been so focused on business that it
Speaker 3: just was kind of like not I didn't even think
Speaker 3: about it. And even now being pregnant, I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm walking into this new club that I'm you are.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, so okay, cool, Like now I'm one
Speaker 3: of them, you know, like this it's yeah, it's pretty wild,
Speaker 3: but you are.
Speaker 1: But it's the best frickin' club you'll ever be a
Speaker 1: part of. I have to tell you, because I've been
Speaker 1: part of a lot of clubs in my career and
Speaker 1: in my life, and I have to say, the working
Speaker 1: mom club is a club that is so unique and
Speaker 1: special because you end up surrounding yourself with a bunch
Speaker 1: of badass, smart women that are all kind of on
Speaker 1: your trajectory in their own way. No one says the same,
Speaker 1: but it's so nice to connect, but so nice to
Speaker 1: have that community and you're going to just enjoy the
Speaker 1: ride and keep doing you and keep being Nikki, and
Speaker 1: you know, maybe that Nikki looks a little different, you know,
Speaker 1: because for me, I think that was my biggest challenge
Speaker 1: was after I had Sky, was like, who the hell
Speaker 1: am I?
Speaker 2: Yeah? How do I? How do I now?
Speaker 1: Holding this little angel that I love more my heart
Speaker 1: was like explode and a way I didn't know it
Speaker 1: was possible, and I didn't really want to put him down.
Speaker 1: And so I think for me and everyone's different, it
Speaker 1: was sort of how do I go at being me now?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean that was a challenge. It took me a beat, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm saying give yourself the grace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And I think that throughout my whole
Speaker 3: you know, career and personal life. I think one of
Speaker 3: my superpowers is an openness to things, and so like
Speaker 3: I'm comfortable kind of not knowing and kind of just
Speaker 3: working through it as we go. So I just kind
Speaker 3: of keep on that path of you know, even my
Speaker 3: team they're like, oh, well, when you're on Matt leave
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I don't know about I don't know
Speaker 3: that sounds I don't know. I was like, I'll probably
Speaker 3: be on calls with him on my boob and that's fine,
Speaker 3: and that's fine, but we'll see, you know, Like I
Speaker 3: really know how I'm going to feel until I'm in it,
Speaker 3: and then I'll figure it out, you know. So I
Speaker 3: could be ignorantly talking about that, but that's kind of
Speaker 3: how I do.
Speaker 2: A lot of life is just like, no wing it.
Speaker 3: Let's see.
Speaker 2: I believe in winging it, babe. I've even winging it,
Speaker 2: just do.
Speaker 3: Everything's been a wing it.
Speaker 2: By the way, one of the greatest lessons I like
Speaker 2: to share on climbing and hails is how many amazingly
Speaker 2: successful women just wing it.
Speaker 1: You kind of have to. We can't control everything, and
Speaker 1: we like to, right. And it's weird because I'm a
Speaker 1: total control freak in so many ways. But I also
Speaker 1: really like to wing it because I think that when
Speaker 1: you plan too much, you set yourself up for disappointment
Speaker 1: and feeling like you didn't hit that goal, right, Like.
Speaker 3: And what's the biggest you know? And I think I
Speaker 3: always think that way too, Like what is the worst
Speaker 3: case scenario of this, like winging it right like it's
Speaker 3: usually not. It's not right back. You know, it's definitely
Speaker 3: something that you can get through. I mean there's been
Speaker 3: some funny wing it. It's like, you know, I've had
Speaker 3: to marriages before this one, and those were funny ones.
Speaker 3: In my twenties totally winged it. The second one only
Speaker 3: lasting for three months, but it.
Speaker 2: Was a blip. It was blips.
Speaker 3: People are blips. But even with that, it was funny
Speaker 3: because I remember going to my parents to tell them, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm getting divorced again, and they were like, we're so
Speaker 3: proud of you. And I was like, that's not the
Speaker 3: response I expected from my Mormon parents.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, from Mormon parents in Utah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't really expect that answer, right, So
Speaker 1: I could.
Speaker 3: And they were like, you know, it's really scary to
Speaker 3: be brave and do something that you know, most people
Speaker 3: wouldn't do. Most people would just stay in it, and
Speaker 3: we are so proud of you for being so brave.
Speaker 3: And I was like, huh, okay, and you know, and
Speaker 3: but that kind of like was a huge lesson for
Speaker 3: me of like, you know, the hardest thing, how hard
Speaker 3: it is the fall, Like, yeah, that was tough, and
Speaker 3: I had to go through a lot of hardship even
Speaker 3: back then, and business and friendships and all of those
Speaker 3: different things. But like, what's the worst case scenario? And
Speaker 3: by the way, people forget about it, like they could
Speaker 3: talk about it for you know, a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: and then it's on to the thing. Yeah, So I
Speaker 3: think that's always the Other thing to remember is like
Speaker 3: we always think everyone is.
Speaker 2: Like, I know, well, because we're in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they're doing their own shit, you know, so
Speaker 3: you know, just keep winging it.
Speaker 1: And everyone's got shit. Everyone's got shit. That's the reality.
Speaker 1: Everyone's got shit, and everyone has wins and everyone has fails,
Speaker 1: and but's how much they talk about them, how much
Speaker 1: they own them. And I've just always had the most
Speaker 1: respect for you for always keeping it real, always keeping
Speaker 1: it You've always remained very humble and open in about
Speaker 1: how you go at anything. And to me, I tell everyone,
Speaker 1: I know, the thing I respect the most about people
Speaker 1: is owning something right, just owning it, just own who
Speaker 1: you are. And I think for you, you've always been
Speaker 1: very clear about you know where you are, right where
Speaker 1: you are, and I think I think with being honest
Speaker 1: with others, it helps to be honest with yourself about things.
Speaker 1: And so I just love watching you win My team
Speaker 1: and I have known you from day one, or our
Speaker 1: day one, your la day one feels like probably there
Speaker 1: was day ones before that that we didn't know you
Speaker 1: but for us for a long time. And you know,
Speaker 1: I personally just love watching you whin and I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to see the next chapter.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to see you be.
Speaker 1: Like hot mom, entrepreneur all the things, just you know,
Speaker 1: with your dewey skin and your lipstain and the cheek
Speaker 1: stain and the ebrow and the whole thing. Because I
Speaker 1: know you're going to do that even as a new mom.
Speaker 1: I'll have your five minutes you'll do get ready with
Speaker 1: me as a new mom.
Speaker 3: No, seriously, because at the end of the day, like
Speaker 3: a little bit of makeup makes you feel so much better,
Speaker 3: Like you just feel like like catch yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 3: You see a little glow on your face and you're like,
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 2: You know, I am so here for that.
Speaker 1: You're talking to a girl that did a cat e
Speaker 1: in COVID locked in a room by myself with not
Speaker 1: another soul in there and had lashes and a cat.
Speaker 3: I like, yes, you guys want to know the funniest
Speaker 3: thing about Rachel and I, so I my whole brand
Speaker 3: is has added levels of SPF. All of my products
Speaker 3: have SPF fifty. So like my this that we've been
Speaker 3: talking about, my tinted zerum, this is SPF fifty makeup, right,
Speaker 3: and I'm crazy about it. How's your sunscreen program, Rachel?
Speaker 3: How's it going over there?
Speaker 1: Nicky comes with me with like she'll put her sunscreen
Speaker 1: and she'll go, I'm just gonna dabb a little, and
Speaker 1: I like like, wait one.
Speaker 3: Or or I would come over to our house to
Speaker 3: do her glam and you're like in your robe, You're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've just been outside in the sun all day, like
Speaker 3: just getting a little bit of color. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: we can fake this with makeup. You don't need to
Speaker 3: be doing that, Rachel, Like, but somehow still has managed
Speaker 3: not to have sunspots, not to have wrinkle, Like, I
Speaker 3: don't know what's happening over there, but.
Speaker 2: I feel like I have all the things. I feel
Speaker 2: like I have all that.
Speaker 3: It's our biggest fight, you and I it is, it is,
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: And I need more sale.
Speaker 1: By the way, because I've been using it and I
Speaker 1: probably didn't even realize it.
Speaker 2: I'd fifty in it. God, you shouldn't have told me. No.
Speaker 2: That's the way.
Speaker 3: That was the inspiration behind the brand, is how I
Speaker 3: could trick Rachel into wearing not knowing it. By the way,
Speaker 3: I have bronzing concentrate that you can put everywhere to
Speaker 3: make you look so tan, but not make your skin
Speaker 3: get any any uva u v b rays.
Speaker 2: Come on, well, you are the Queen. I love you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: And you know, if anyone is lucky enough to have
Speaker 1: Nikki touch their face and their lifetime, but she does
Speaker 1: teach a lot. And if you can't have Nikki in person,
Speaker 1: you can have her on her social because she's so
Speaker 1: active on her Instagram, which is at.
Speaker 3: Nikki d Roost. And you can also find me on
Speaker 3: cl Cosmetics. And we're doing a lot more next year
Speaker 3: in Sephora as well, So our brand is retailed in
Speaker 3: Sephora nationwide. But I know in March we're doing a
Speaker 3: digital event, so if you want to learn firsthand for me,
Speaker 3: we'll be doing some classes that way too, So anyone
Speaker 3: can tune in and then hopefully in the fall we'll
Speaker 3: have more stuff happening on tour Baby in tow.
Speaker 2: I love it so much. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: I love you so much. I'm going to let you
Speaker 1: go back to your life. And this was the most
Speaker 1: fun and I'm so excited. Thank you so much to
Speaker 1: my sweet, beautiful Niki for coming on the pod today.
Speaker 1: I love and adore her so very much. I also
Speaker 1: loved hearing that her creating amazing products is her way
Speaker 1: to give back to an industry that she loves so
Speaker 1: much and owes so much too. And you know, as
Speaker 1: I spoke on the pod about, one of my favorite
Speaker 1: things about Niki is she is as real as they come,
Speaker 1: and she owns her triumphs, her falls, her.
Speaker 2: Fears, her real sort of.
Speaker 1: She has a real humility about her success and how
Speaker 1: she has become Niki. And you know, she's still exactly
Speaker 1: the same as the day I met her, and just
Speaker 1: truly the loveliest realist and just such a girls girl.
Speaker 1: I have to say also, first and foremost, so thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Climbing and Heels. If
Speaker 1: you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 1: the iHeart app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You
Speaker 1: don't miss a single episode this season, and be sure
Speaker 1: to follow me on Instagram at at rachel Zo and
Speaker 1: the show on at Climbing and Heals pod for the
Speaker 1: latest episodes and updates.
Speaker 2: I will talk to you soon month