WEBVTT - Messiah

0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.960
<v Speaker 1>The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.840
<v Speaker 1>those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,

0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.400
<v Speaker 1>and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or their employees.

0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.840
<v Speaker 1>This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be

0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:16.880
<v Speaker 1>suitable for everyone.

0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:18.919
<v Speaker 2>Listener discretion is advised.

0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.439
<v Speaker 3>Radical was released every Tuesday and brought to you absolutely free,

0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.639
<v Speaker 3>But if you want ad free listening and early access

0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:33.199
<v Speaker 3>to next week's episode, subscribe to tenderfoot Plus. For more information,

0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.599
<v Speaker 3>check out tenderfootplus dot com.

0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Enjoy the episode.

0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:43.120
<v Speaker 4>Gamsite Media.

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.440
<v Speaker 3>After he was arrested in Lowndes County, a ma'am Jamil

0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Elamine was taken to a jail in Montgomery, Alabama. He

0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.880
<v Speaker 3>had been free for twenty five years, but now he

0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.760
<v Speaker 3>was back behind bars and back in the court system.

0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.440
<v Speaker 3>His first appearance would be the next morning at a

0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.200
<v Speaker 3>courthouse named for a man whose career in politics started

0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.960
<v Speaker 3>with the KKK and ended on the US Supreme Court.

0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.960
<v Speaker 3>It was Alabama. Armed marshals drove a Mamjamial there. Shackled

0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.319
<v Speaker 3>and handcuffed. He emerged from a van into public view,

0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:23.119
<v Speaker 3>wearing loose fitting gray sweats pants, pockets hanging inside out disheveled.

0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.400
<v Speaker 3>He said just a few words to a gaggle of reporters.

0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.800
<v Speaker 2>The governmental conspiracy. Man, this is a governmental conspiracy.

0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:32.720
<v Speaker 5>Weren't involved in news.

0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.240
<v Speaker 3>This is a governmental conspiracy, he said, and he denied

0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:42.399
<v Speaker 3>being involved in the shooting. US Marshal James Ergus was

0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.119
<v Speaker 3>also still in Alabama. He had stuck round after helping

0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.960
<v Speaker 3>to capture a Mamjamil, and he was among those waiting

0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.600
<v Speaker 3>inside the courtroom when a Mam Jamil was brought in.

0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.320
<v Speaker 3>James was standing at the entrance when he felt something.

0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.360
<v Speaker 6>It was just a horrible energy and I didn't know why,

0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.560
<v Speaker 6>and then I and then I realized that he was

0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:02.160
<v Speaker 6>right behind me.

0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:05.160
<v Speaker 4>It was just a.

0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:10.800
<v Speaker 6>Very unusual I just felt bad. I mean, I don't know.

0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.560
<v Speaker 6>I don't know how sixplained it is. I went from

0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:17.720
<v Speaker 6>feeling great and fine to just feeling bad for a second.

0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.280
<v Speaker 6>You know, they went away, But it was it exactly

0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:23.639
<v Speaker 6>correlated with his.

0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Closeness to me, James said, he since the force of evil,

0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.200
<v Speaker 3>I won't argue with the fact that he felt something.

0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.360
<v Speaker 3>I imagine that we can pick up on phenomena that

0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.560
<v Speaker 3>we might call energy. Everyone has walked into a room

0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:51.480
<v Speaker 3>and said something feels off, But those perceptions are subjective.

0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.440
<v Speaker 3>I bet I would have picked up on something different

0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.880
<v Speaker 3>if I'd been in the courtroom that day and Ma'am

0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.720
<v Speaker 3>Jamil had been in a cell all night, forced into

0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.040
<v Speaker 3>a moment of stillness after four days on the run,

0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.160
<v Speaker 3>his mind must have been racing, and he emerged from

0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.600
<v Speaker 3>whatever darkness that was into the glare of the press,

0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.840
<v Speaker 3>and then suddenly he was at the mercy of the court.

0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.960
<v Speaker 3>Who's to say that in that moment something wasn't radiating

0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.240
<v Speaker 3>off of him, something that we don't really have words.

0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.000
<v Speaker 2>For, but evil.

0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't really use the word, and so I'm not

0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:29.000
<v Speaker 3>sure I would have felt it. We perceive what we

0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:35.440
<v Speaker 3>focus on. James everyone, we're all moving through slightly different realities.

0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Crazy to think about that in the context of a

0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:39.360
<v Speaker 3>court case.

0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:45.320
<v Speaker 2>In Alabama.

0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.200
<v Speaker 3>There was some legal bureaucracy that needed to play itself

0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.320
<v Speaker 3>out issues not directly related to the shooting in the

0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:56.160
<v Speaker 3>West End. Ammamdmil was indicted in Fulton County relatively quickly,

0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.120
<v Speaker 3>in a little over a month, and so it was

0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.960
<v Speaker 3>time for him to be brought back to Georgia. The

0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.240
<v Speaker 3>news media TV especially had been following the legal procedures closely,

0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.560
<v Speaker 3>and a mam Jamil's trip back was something of a climax.

0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.400
<v Speaker 6>There was a bajillion news cruise that wanted to follow

0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.119
<v Speaker 6>the motorcade back, but if the motorcade was a trick,

0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.800
<v Speaker 6>he was never in the motorcade.

0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.839
<v Speaker 3>Instead, a mam Jamil was taken in a helicopter. James

0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.480
<v Speaker 3>said he was quiet on the trip, no supervillain vibes.

0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.559
<v Speaker 6>We put him in an suv without a motorcade, drove

0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.880
<v Speaker 6>him to a landing site, and they flew him directly

0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.280
<v Speaker 6>to the prison and unloaded him in Atlanta.

0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.320
<v Speaker 3>Before that first appearance in court, when a mam Jamil

0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.640
<v Speaker 3>called out a conspiracy, he wanted people to see a

0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.960
<v Speaker 3>government capable of trickery and deceit, for people to shift

0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:56.440
<v Speaker 3>their focus. I'm not sure many were convinced. I'm not

0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.640
<v Speaker 3>sure I'm convinced, but there's no doubt that a mam

0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.200
<v Speaker 3>Jmi in his days as a revolutionary was the target

0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.559
<v Speaker 3>of a government conspiracy at the highest levels. The press

0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.640
<v Speaker 3>were none the wiser, and it would take decades for

0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:11.880
<v Speaker 3>the public to come to grips with what happened to him.

0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.120
<v Speaker 3>The force of evil, James said he felt in the courtroom.

0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.080
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it was just the anger of the old h

0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:28.360
<v Speaker 3>Rap Brown from Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart podcasts.

0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:50.040
<v Speaker 3>This is Radical, I'm Mostly Secret, Episode three, Messiah. If

0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Rap Brown was larger than life, there's one moment that

0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.320
<v Speaker 3>supersized him, that landed his name in the newspaper headlines

0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.240
<v Speaker 3>and on the evening news. It was a speed she

0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.200
<v Speaker 3>gave in nineteen sixty seven at a rally and a

0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.880
<v Speaker 3>town in Maryland called Cambridge. The irony is that few

0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.720
<v Speaker 3>people seemed to know for sure what actually happened at

0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.039
<v Speaker 3>this rally, like what really happened on the ground, But

0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.400
<v Speaker 3>stories about Rap took flight afterwards, stories that forced people

0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.159
<v Speaker 3>to pick sides and to reinforce narratives that weren't necessarily true.

0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.240
<v Speaker 3>The late sixties was a time when white people were

0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.359
<v Speaker 3>scared and black people were angry, and people saw in

0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Rap who.

0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.520
<v Speaker 2>They needed to see.

0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.120
<v Speaker 3>He emerged as this phantasm with a shaky foundation in reality,

0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:43.600
<v Speaker 3>not that there was even a consensus on reality. Cambridge, Maryland,

0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.280
<v Speaker 3>is an industrial city of about ten thousand on Maryland's

0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.760
<v Speaker 3>eastern shore. Peter Levy, a historian, wrote a book about it.

0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.520
<v Speaker 7>So in the early sixties. From roughly nineteen sixty two

0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.880
<v Speaker 7>through nineteen sixty four, Cambridge had been really one of

0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.520
<v Speaker 7>the hotbeds of civil rights activism in the country. Though

0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.560
<v Speaker 7>not as well known as a place like Birmingham or Selma,

0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:06.919
<v Speaker 7>it garnered a great deal of attention.

0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.320
<v Speaker 3>In Cambridge, there was an all white fire company that

0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.280
<v Speaker 3>basically ran the city. It was technically private, but the

0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.679
<v Speaker 3>fire company was funded with public money and the members

0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.000
<v Speaker 3>usually decided who held political office in city government. Civil

0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.320
<v Speaker 3>rights activists in Cambridge had some wins, though They pushed

0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.280
<v Speaker 3>the city to pass a disegregation ordinance, but it was

0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.800
<v Speaker 3>a victory that stoked the backlash. White residents who wanted

0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.600
<v Speaker 3>to maintain the status quo began to raise their voices.

0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:40.760
<v Speaker 3>The fire company operated the community pool, and instead of desegregating,

0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.000
<v Speaker 3>they just shut it down.

0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.520
<v Speaker 7>It would rather have no community pool than how blacks

0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.080
<v Speaker 7>swim with them in a desegregated fashion. So it is,

0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.960
<v Speaker 7>you know, it is the power broker, and it had

0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.160
<v Speaker 7>been at juggernauts with the black community for years.

0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.440
<v Speaker 3>George Wallace, the staunch segregationist and governor of Alabama, was

0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.680
<v Speaker 3>running for president, and he held a rally at the

0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:03.520
<v Speaker 3>building operated by the fire company.

0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.520
<v Speaker 7>The percentage of whites who showed up for that was

0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.360
<v Speaker 7>really really high. And in fact, the political leadership in

0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.840
<v Speaker 7>Cambridge changes after that, and now more conservative elements took.

0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Over the right word shift in Cambridge among the white community.

0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Is it fair to call that like a more open

0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.160
<v Speaker 3>embrace of white supremacist ideology.

0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.880
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I mean, it's the whole difficulty with the term backlash.

0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.640
<v Speaker 7>It's more of a maybe I wish I called as

0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:36.320
<v Speaker 7>a retrenchment. I see it as partly it's almost a

0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.400
<v Speaker 7>premonition of the times we're in today, of a populist

0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.040
<v Speaker 7>white populist upsearch that takes place.

0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.959
<v Speaker 3>And in nineteen sixty seven, the National States Rights Party

0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:48.119
<v Speaker 3>held a white power.

0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Rally in Cambridge.

0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.360
<v Speaker 3>The organization had ties to the KKK and the American

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.520
<v Speaker 3>Nazi Party. After the event, the Cambridge police chief Bryce Kinneman,

0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.880
<v Speaker 3>he walked off with the party's leader appearing to protect him.

0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.880
<v Speaker 2>About a week later, rap would come to town.

0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.080
<v Speaker 3>He was chairman of SNAK at the time, the Student

0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.600
<v Speaker 3>on Violent Coordinating Committee and some activists in Cambridge invited

0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:12.400
<v Speaker 3>him to come speak.

0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.280
<v Speaker 7>He's really relatively unknown until he goes to Cambridge in

0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.120
<v Speaker 7>nineteen sixty seven. Brown, like a lot of black activists,

0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.280
<v Speaker 7>thinks that there is a lot of change taking place,

0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.719
<v Speaker 7>and if he can foster that change, he's going to

0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.319
<v Speaker 7>do it. I mean, he understood, having been in the South,

0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.640
<v Speaker 7>that sometimes the change would take place first and foremost

0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.079
<v Speaker 7>at the community level, and he's trying to help community

0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:36.840
<v Speaker 7>activists out.

0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Before Rap got to Cambridge, the police chief Kinneman, he

0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.199
<v Speaker 3>ordered his officers into the streets. State troopers were mobilized too,

0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.920
<v Speaker 3>and the National Guard was on standby. Rap arrived at

0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.600
<v Speaker 3>around eight forty five at night. A crowd of at

0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.720
<v Speaker 3>least three hundred and fifty people had gathered in the

0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.880
<v Speaker 3>city's Black neighborhood. He climbed on top of a car.

0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Rap stood tall above the crowd. He had a small afro,

0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.760
<v Speaker 3>black sunglasses, looked like he was wearing jeans and a

0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.440
<v Speaker 3>denim jacket. When he spoke, he jabbed his right corner

0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.839
<v Speaker 3>finger in front of him. No microphone, no megaphone.

0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:17.560
<v Speaker 4>Animals, Monkeys are animal.

0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.600
<v Speaker 3>We got this recording from the Maryland State Archives. It's incomplete,

0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.680
<v Speaker 3>and it seems to only include the most inflammatory parts

0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.800
<v Speaker 3>of Rap's speech. He's using a lot of language that

0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.400
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't use, and then I don't like, but I'm

0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.360
<v Speaker 3>going to use some of it here just to make

0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:39.959
<v Speaker 3>sure you can understand what he's saying.

0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:41.480
<v Speaker 2>We're going to carry you.

0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:48.679
<v Speaker 7>And the only thing I have to respects first.

0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:44.920
<v Speaker 5>The.

0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Man is moving to kill you. He said.

0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:54.000
<v Speaker 3>The only thing that the honky respects this force. In

0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.120
<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixty seven, the epithets and the naked calls for

0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.720
<v Speaker 3>violence grabbed most of the attention, but in the less

0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.440
<v Speaker 3>traffic parts of the speech that we don't have audio of,

0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.679
<v Speaker 3>there's a pretty clear eyed assessment of the hypocrisy of

0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.800
<v Speaker 3>the white establishment. You call us lazy, but you built

0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.840
<v Speaker 3>a country with slave labor. You kill over in Vietnam

0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.160
<v Speaker 3>for your cause. Send black people to kill for your cause,

0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.840
<v Speaker 3>but we shouldn't kill for our cause. You talk about

0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 3>black people looting, but you looted this land from its

0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:29.760
<v Speaker 3>native inhabitants. Rapp's response to the double standard was pragmatic.

0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.160
<v Speaker 3>What gives them power over us is their willingness to

0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.040
<v Speaker 3>use violence, so we should use it to What he

0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.360
<v Speaker 3>seemed to overlook were the ways that brute force wasn't

0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.200
<v Speaker 3>sustainable for white people. For one thing, they had a

0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.520
<v Speaker 3>major revolt on their hands. Violence as an idea was spreading.

0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.959
<v Speaker 8>Because that's what he about to do to you, believe me,

0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:56.880
<v Speaker 8>unlike he would do to you.

0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:57.840
<v Speaker 6>But do it to him first.

0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.600
<v Speaker 3>Rap said, don't try to love the honky to death.

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Shoot him to death before he shoots you.

0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 3>He also spoke about what was happening in Cambridge. Nearby

0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.440
<v Speaker 3>there was a dilapidated school, a symbol of unequal education

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:15.120
<v Speaker 3>in the city.

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Rap said it should have been burned all.

0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.440
<v Speaker 3>The way down a long time ago. Burn that school

0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:30.960
<v Speaker 3>down and take over the white school. If America don't

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:37.320
<v Speaker 3>come around, he said, we should burn it down. Rap

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 3>spoke for about an hour, and afterward the crowd mostly dispersed.

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 3>There's no riot, no fire. Law enforcement and the police

0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.880
<v Speaker 3>chief Keneman, they got a recording of the speech, probably

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:50.720
<v Speaker 3>the same one we have.

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.200
<v Speaker 7>I think you have to see. Keineman is a kind

0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 7>of a boiling cattle and kind of a pressure cooker,

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:01.440
<v Speaker 7>and the pressure has been building.

0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Up for years.

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.560
<v Speaker 7>He's getting really really angry. And other authorities at the

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 7>state attorney General, the head of the state police, they're

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 7>actually trying to calm Bryce Kineman down. You know, he

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:14.960
<v Speaker 7>wants to just go in and clean the place up.

0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.000
<v Speaker 3>At this point, it's late at night, and the story

0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 3>goes that Rap and a few other activists are walking

0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 3>a woman home a deputy sheriff fired what he alleged

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.520
<v Speaker 3>were two warning shots, one on the ground and one

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 3>in the air. It's a shotgun, though book shot and

0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 3>a pellet hit Rap in the head.

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 7>Brown scared for his life, maybe rightfully so.

0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Rap wasn't there for long though There's.

0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 7>Some people actually said that he was actually secreted out

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 7>in a casket and he leaves town now. I'm not

0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 7>sure if the police officers knew that, but he's gone.

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Many of the people who heard Raps speak, they.

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Went back to their homes on the Black side of town.

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Cambridge was relatively quiet, but a fire was about to catch,

0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.840
<v Speaker 3>a fire that draw the attention of the most powerful

0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 3>men in the country, and even though Rap was on

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 3>his way out of Cambridge, those men would decide to

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 3>come after him. In nineteen sixty seven, the same year

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 3>that Rapp spoke in Cambridge, Maryland, there were more than

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and fifty uprisings of black people and cities

0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 3>around the country.

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>And one hundred places Detroit is a fired.

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 7>One hundred square blocks are now under sea.

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.720
<v Speaker 5>Looting and shooting by both police and rooftop snipers, and

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 5>three Negroes were killed.

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:52.920
<v Speaker 4>And still the.

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 6>Sirens whine and the victims come in.

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 7>The fire has been raging for more than thirty.

0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Minutes for then.

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>This is where the riot in the city hospital WCBSTV

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>news in Newark.

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Forty three people killed in Detroit, twenty six killed in Newark,

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 3>thousands arrested. The period came to be known as the

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Long Hot Summer. Black people were angry and white people

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 3>were scared. Everyone was watching, not least of all the

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 3>President of the United States, Lyndon Johnson. He was concerned,

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 3>maybe even angry. A few years earlier he had signed

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 3>the Voting Rights Act, but that hadn't really eased the tension.

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 3>America was still in distress.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 4>We will not tolerate lawlessness. We will not endure violence.

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 3>This is Johnson speaking at a press conference about the uprisings.

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 4>It will not be tolerated. This nation will do whatever

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 4>it is necessary to do to suppress and to punish

0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 4>those who engage in it.

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 3>He meant black people, especially black leaders of the uprisings.

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 3>The rebellions because President Johnson's government, the FBI in particular,

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 3>would set law and order aside when it came to

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 3>and I'm using Johnson's words here, suppressing and punishing those involved.

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 3>The FBI would employ covert, extra judicial, many would say,

0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 3>illegal actions to target Rap and other black leaders whatever

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 3>was necessary. Rap would feel the effects of this for years.

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 3>The night that Rap delivered his speech in Cambridge, Johnson

0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 3>and lots of other powerful white men in Washington, they

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 3>would have been watching TV reports about uprisings around the country.

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 3>In Cambridge, after Rap had left town, maybe in a casket,

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 3>a fire was about to catch the historian Peter Levy,

0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 3>he spent years looking into how things went down. Cambridge

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 3>was quiet that night until a bunch of white men

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 3>night writers drove through the black.

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 7>Neighborhood, and there are disputes about what they were doing,

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.159
<v Speaker 7>but many in the black community thought that they were

0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 7>being fired upon. Generally speaking, the police would not stop

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 7>these night riders. Later on in the evening, they did

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.880
<v Speaker 7>stop him and claim they found no weapons, but many

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 7>of the black community didn't believe that. Some police reported

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.040
<v Speaker 7>that they were actually shooting off fireworks, and at one

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 7>point some black individuals began to arm themselves, and two

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 7>black men were later arrested for firing back, and one

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 7>of those shots hit an officer. Didn't seriously do any harm,

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 7>but when the police chief, Rice Kunnerman, heard that his

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 7>officer officer wrote and had been hit, he just goes

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 7>you know, he goes crazy.

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 3>Meanwhile, a small fire had started in that old elementary

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.960
<v Speaker 3>school that it spoken about, the symbol of unequal education

0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.000
<v Speaker 3>that he said should burn to the ground. It took

0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.439
<v Speaker 3>forty five minutes for that all white fire company to

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.280
<v Speaker 3>even be alerted, and when the company got there, the

0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.199
<v Speaker 3>firefighters kept their distance just beyond the border of the

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.400
<v Speaker 3>black section of town for at least an hour, if

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 3>not longer.

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.639
<v Speaker 2>The head of the fire companies said his men.

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Didn't feel safe enough to go into the neighborhood, even

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 3>though other white people had gone in that night.

0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 7>The black city councilmen and leading business leaders asked for

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 7>the right to put the fire out. You know, said

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.840
<v Speaker 7>give us. The equipment wasn't given to him, and the

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.399
<v Speaker 7>response essentially of the police chief was you know you

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 7>and he used the N word started this fire. You know,

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.160
<v Speaker 7>you guys can put it out. But then they weren't

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 7>wouldn't help him put it out.

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.959
<v Speaker 3>Finally, the state attorney General got involved, and he convinced

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:52.800
<v Speaker 3>the fire company to extinguish the fire.

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 7>And by then two whole square blocks of the black community,

0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.639
<v Speaker 7>including a number of businesses and a church of homes,

0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.960
<v Speaker 7>had been burned to the ground.

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.280
<v Speaker 3>The night of the fire, President Johnson called an emergency

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.440
<v Speaker 3>meeting at the White House about the uprisings. There was

0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.240
<v Speaker 3>a small gathering of powerful men. The Secretary of Defense

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 3>was there, the Attorney General, a Supreme Court justice, and

0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 3>maybe most importantly, j Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI.

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Hoover had been leading the bureau for decades, and he

0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.000
<v Speaker 3>was the one who launched the notorious counterintelligence program known

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 3>as Cointel pro. It was aimed at surveilling and disrupting

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 3>American political organizations, mostly on the left. According to Hoover,

0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.639
<v Speaker 3>in this meeting at the White House, President Johnson was

0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.920
<v Speaker 3>of the opinion that the uprisings of the Long Hot

0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 3>Summer they were coordinated by black activists. The next day,

0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 3>Hoover from the FBI called Johnson. Even with all the

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 3>intelligence at his disposal, Hoover wasn't able to point to

0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.119
<v Speaker 3>any coordinated conspiracy, but he named a Trap Brown that

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 3>someone the President might blame and called him, quote, one

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.120
<v Speaker 3>of the worst in the country. A warrant was put

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.560
<v Speaker 3>out for Rap's arrest. The government would do whatever it

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 3>took to stop him. FBI agents visited Rap's lawyer.

0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Afterward. The lawyer called Rap.

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 3>And they made plans for Rap to fly from Washington,

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.600
<v Speaker 3>DC to New York City, where he would turn himself in.

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 3>But Rap's lawyer alleged the FBI was listening in on

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.400
<v Speaker 3>that call because when Rap went to the airport, he

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 3>was arrested and charged with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 4>My fellow Americans, we have endured a week such as

0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:48.000
<v Speaker 4>no nation should live through a time of violence and tragedy.

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 3>Three days after Cambridge, President Johnson delivered a televised address.

0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 3>It was like he was speaking directly to Rap.

0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 4>The apostles of violence were their ugly drum beat of hatred.

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 4>Must know that they're now heading for a ruin and disaster,

0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 4>and every man who really wants progress, our justice, our

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:22.920
<v Speaker 4>equality must stand against them and against their miserable virus

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:23.439
<v Speaker 4>of hate.

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Targeting Rap. It was an easy way to shift a

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 3>tension from the crappy condition to police violence that often

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.080
<v Speaker 3>spark black people to take to the streets in the

0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:38.640
<v Speaker 3>first place. Then a month after Cambridge, the FBI Director

0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.840
<v Speaker 3>j Edgar Hoover kicked off a new operation under the

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Cointel pro umbrella. It would target what he called black

0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 3>nationalist hate groups.

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 7>And so it begins to launch efforts to and this

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 7>is Hoover's words, to neutralize black radicals. Another definition of

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 7>black radicals is quite expansive because in that includes Martin

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 7>Luther King, who had been disliked by Hoover, disliked as

0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.359
<v Speaker 7>a wrong term, hated by Hoover for years.

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 3>Expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize.

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 2>Those were the goals Hoover and.

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.080
<v Speaker 3>The FBI wanted to prevent the rise of what they

0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 3>called a messiah. The FBI paid informants who infiltrated civil

0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 3>rights and black power organizations. Regular reports came in to

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:33.080
<v Speaker 3>FBI headquarters from agents surveilling leaders like Rap reading the

0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 3>documents that have been declassified. It looks like the FBI

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.800
<v Speaker 3>was trying to secretly create conflict between Rap and other.

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Black power leaders.

0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 3>And then there's this wild one which actually got approval

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.639
<v Speaker 3>from FBI headquarters to make a comic book vilifying Rap.

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 3>From what I can tell for Rap, at least, none

0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 3>of these dirty tricks amounted to much. What was truly

0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.440
<v Speaker 3>damaging was a scheme among federal and local law enforcement

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.880
<v Speaker 3>to Rapp caught up in the legal system. This unfolded

0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:10.480
<v Speaker 3>over years. It began in Cambridge, where Rap was charged

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 3>with arson the same day. I should point out that

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 3>Hoover mentioned Rap to the President. The county prosecutor in

0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Maryland later told a reporter that he charged Rap to

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.400
<v Speaker 3>quote get him on the FBI Most Wanted list.

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>The charges weren't based on any evidence.

0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 3>A few days after Rap was indicted on those charges,

0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 3>he flew to Louisiana to visit his family in Baton Rouge,

0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.680
<v Speaker 3>and he took a gun with him, an M one carbine.

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 2>You could do that kind of.

0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 3>Thing back then, take a gun on a plane, check

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.560
<v Speaker 3>it in with the crew. The whole time he was

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.720
<v Speaker 3>in Louisiana, a Rap was followed by local police, and

0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 3>when he got back to New York, he was arrested

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 3>by the FBI for carrying a gun across state lines.

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:55.040
<v Speaker 3>A while under indictment, and the judge in the gun

0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 3>case appeared to hardly even pretend to play by the rules.

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 3>He was a former FBI agent, and at some point

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:02.880
<v Speaker 3>he was overheard saying that he was going to quote

0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:09.120
<v Speaker 3>get that nigger, referring to Rap. On top of that,

0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:14.680
<v Speaker 3>the legal bureaucracy took its toll filings and hearings. Rapp

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 3>actually spent some time in jail for violating his bond.

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.159
<v Speaker 3>It was a lot, and he stepped down as chairman

0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:24.080
<v Speaker 3>of SNICK. To survive as a leader in a black

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 3>activist at the time, it was something like a small miracle.

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.200
<v Speaker 3>Malcolm X was assassinated in nineteen sixty five and the

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:35.200
<v Speaker 3>FBI was involved, Martin Luther King Junior in nineteen sixty eight,

0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 3>the Black Panther leader Fred Hampton in nineteen sixty nine,

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 3>and what many consider a plot orchestrated by the FBI.

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 3>And then in nineteen seventy, the night before Rap was

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:48.640
<v Speaker 3>set to face trial in Maryland for those fake arson

0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 3>charges and explosion.

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.200
<v Speaker 7>The bomb was so bad that it totally eviscerated the car.

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.200
<v Speaker 7>If there were people who were trying to kill Brown

0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 7>and maybe even tracking Brown, they might have had good

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.680
<v Speaker 7>reas reason to believe that Brown was in the car,

0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 7>and most people argue that Brown was the target.

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.120
<v Speaker 3>But Rap wasn't in the car. Two other Snake activists

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.919
<v Speaker 3>were killed, Ralph Featherstone and William J. Payne, were in

0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Maryland to try to protect Rap. In the aftermath, law

0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:22.160
<v Speaker 3>enforcement argued that Featherstone, in pain had plans to bomb

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 3>the courthouse and those plans went awry. But the Black

0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:29.360
<v Speaker 3>press and Black activists they saw a failed assassination attempt

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 3>with good reason to fear for his life, Rap went underground.

0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 3>Hoover put him on the FBI ten Most Wanted list. Ultimately,

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:45.680
<v Speaker 3>Rap wasn't convicted of any of those charges. I don't

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:47.440
<v Speaker 3>think it's a stretch to say there was a bona

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 3>fide conspiracy against him, as much as these kinds of

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 3>things can truly be coordinated. And so three decades later,

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand, as a Maam Jimil Alamin's trial approached,

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.680
<v Speaker 3>his defense this team wanted to make the jurors see

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.720
<v Speaker 3>that conspiracy, but see that it never really stopped, that

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 3>it continued through the night of the shootout, and the

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 3>defense wasn't just coming up with this out of nowhere.

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Evidence would emerge that showed law enforcement was surveilling a

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Ma'am Jamil in the years and even the weeks leading

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 3>up to March sixteenth, two thousand, when gunfire erupted in

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:35.119
<v Speaker 3>the West End. By April of two thousand, about a

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 3>month after the shootout in the West End, a Ma'am

0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Jamil Elamin was in jail in Atlanta at an overcrowded

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 3>facility known for being short staffed and violent. He pleaded

0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:48.159
<v Speaker 3>not guilty when he went to court in Fulton County

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.480
<v Speaker 3>and was ordered to be detained until trial.

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:53.080
<v Speaker 2>It was decades after the.

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 3>Long hot Summer and that meeting of powerful men at

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:59.520
<v Speaker 3>the White House. The surveillance of cointail pro was considered

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.600
<v Speaker 3>an artific of the sixties and seventies. But what if

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.920
<v Speaker 3>it never really stopped. What if there's surveillance and legal

0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:09.200
<v Speaker 3>harassment followed Rapp when he left prison, moved to Atlanta,

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:16.719
<v Speaker 3>and became a man Jamil. That's what a Mam Jamil alleged.

0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:20.359
<v Speaker 3>During conversations with his defense team. He said that in

0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 3>the weeks, months, and even years before he was arrested

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 3>in Alabama, he still felt that he was being watched.

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:28.640
<v Speaker 3>He even figured there were informants in the mass jed

0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 3>in the West End.

0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.200
<v Speaker 5>I think all means just because of his history with

0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 5>the FBI, was suspicious about that was he had reason

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.720
<v Speaker 5>to believe that might be true, but no hard evidence.

0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.240
<v Speaker 3>Jack Martin was a Man Jamil's lead defense attorney. Martin

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 3>and the other lawyers on the team, they didn't consider

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 3>a Man Jamil paranoid. They shared his suspicions, and if

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 3>the FBI was surveiling a Man Jamil, or if there

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.080
<v Speaker 3>was an informant in the mass jed, they wanted to know.

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 3>That kind of information could be useful. It could even

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.840
<v Speaker 3>prove a Maam Jamil was innocent. What if an informant

0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 3>was at the scene of the shootout or if they

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 3>were somehow involved.

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 5>We felt that maybe some informant or somebody working for

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 5>the FBI in the community, we'd know something and that

0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:18.760
<v Speaker 5>they knew something that we didn't know.

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.119
<v Speaker 3>And so as they prepared for a Mam Jamil's trial,

0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.200
<v Speaker 3>the defense team tried to squeeze as much information as

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:27.840
<v Speaker 3>possible from the prosecution.

0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:33.800
<v Speaker 2>In federal law enforcement, the.

0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 3>Fulton County DA had given notice he'd seek the death penalty.

0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 3>He wanted the state of Georgia to kill a Mam

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 3>jamial for the murder of Deputy Ricky Kinchin and the

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:48.920
<v Speaker 3>shooting of Deputy Algernon English. The court determined that Maam

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 3>Jamil couldn't afford to pay an attorney for an adequate defense.

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:55.320
<v Speaker 3>His salary was listed as seven hundred dollars a month

0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 3>and the savings were valued at twelve hundred dollars. But

0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:00.640
<v Speaker 3>that didn't mean he would end up with a lawyer

0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:05.000
<v Speaker 3>from the Public Defender's Office in Georgia. For death penalty cases,

0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 3>the state will pay extra for the defense of the accused.

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 3>The judge would still have to approve the lawyers. But

0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 3>a man Jimiale's family and closest supporters, they got to

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:18.520
<v Speaker 3>work assembling a high powered legal team. There was Jack Martin,

0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 3>a white guy who had lots of experience with death

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 3>penalty cases, and Tony Akxom, who's black.

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 2>He had a.

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 3>Reputation for representing civil rights leaders and politicians.

0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Here's Axom.

0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:38.360
<v Speaker 9>I could see myself not having been a lawyer, but

0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 9>having been a stokely Carmichael on a trap round. It

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 9>is a thin line that separates who he was to

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:52.600
<v Speaker 9>where I am.

0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Axelm and Martin were the two attorneys on the team

0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 3>who I was able to interview. There was also Bruce Harvey,

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 3>a white ponytail liberal, and there was Michael Warren, an

0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 3>African American Muslim from New York who helped get the

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:06.000
<v Speaker 3>Central Park five exonerated.

0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:08.680
<v Speaker 9>If Jack would not a lawyer, he'd be a mathematician.

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 9>If Bruce was not a lawyer, Bruce would be a hippie. Okay,

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:18.959
<v Speaker 9>So all of us brought something different.

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:22.560
<v Speaker 2>And if Michael Warren were not a lawyer.

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 8>Oh, Michael would be in the pits. I mean Michael

0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 8>would be He'd be fighting the Russians. That's That's that's

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:33.920
<v Speaker 8>who Michael would be. Absolutely all of us brought a different.

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 4>Mix to it.

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:40.840
<v Speaker 3>With these different personalities, the hippie, the warrior, the mathematician

0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:45.239
<v Speaker 3>that's Martin, and the civil rights worker that's Axom. There

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 3>was sometimes conflict on the team, but Axholm said it

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:52.200
<v Speaker 3>never created a serious problem because ultimately a man, Jamil

0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:53.040
<v Speaker 3>had final say.

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 9>If there's conflict, we say, Jamil, it's your call. So tension,

0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 9>uh is not enough tension that it breaks or it

0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:09.680
<v Speaker 9>causes a ripple effect that we can't do what we

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 9>need to do.

0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:17.560
<v Speaker 3>With this outsized persona following him around a Mam Demio

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 3>managed to convey an image of courtesy and respectability in

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:24.640
<v Speaker 3>the run up to the trial. In my quest to

0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 3>pin him down, I'm finding him really slippery. Not only

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.840
<v Speaker 3>do other people distort him into the embodiment of whatever

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 3>ends there seeking, he has his own way of shifting form.

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm still trying to figure out if that's something unique

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 3>to him or what we all do. But yeah, slippery

0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:48.080
<v Speaker 3>and Mam Dmil's case did not go to trial quickly.

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.000
<v Speaker 3>He sat in jail after he was arrested, weeks past,

0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:56.680
<v Speaker 3>then months. Tony Axam, Jack Martin, they met with him

0:31:57.160 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 3>and they got to know him at least a little bit.

0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:09.760
<v Speaker 9>He is six feet plus, okay, just his height commands

0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 9>the room. He is slow to speak. He does not

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 9>speak with speed, and he does not speak with a

0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:27.200
<v Speaker 9>Southern draw. There is a deliberateness about him, and you

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.720
<v Speaker 9>get the impression that he is an ema. So you

0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 9>can feel that he has seen parts of the world,

0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 9>and he's met with kings and queens and servants and slaves.

0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:42.640
<v Speaker 9>You can get that impression and feeling when you talk

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:43.040
<v Speaker 9>to him.

0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:48.560
<v Speaker 5>Allaman was one of the most genuine and polite class overhead,

0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:56.400
<v Speaker 5>very self spoken, very a peacemaker. When you you say, well,

0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:59.960
<v Speaker 5>how yell? I mean, how you doing? He says? Siety,

0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 5>he says, There's anything I can do for you. Have

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 5>no other client ever said that to me. That personality

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 5>just wasn't the same personality somebody get into a shootout

0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:14.720
<v Speaker 5>with the police. So I don't know. He struck me

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:20.880
<v Speaker 5>as a very fascinating person great stories, very polite, very

0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:23.800
<v Speaker 5>wanting to help us as much as he could.

0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:26.360
<v Speaker 3>I heard from many people who met with the mam

0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.080
<v Speaker 3>Jamil or who have known him over the years, that

0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 3>he would ask this question, is there anything I can

0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 3>do for you? It's his go to line. He'd ask

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:38.600
<v Speaker 3>folks across the counter at his corner store, He'd ask

0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 3>folks across the plexic class in prison. Maybe he even

0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:46.400
<v Speaker 3>asked it in his days as a revolutionary. It's universally disarming.

0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 3>I know he had this will to serve. I know

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 3>he had a fire inside. I know he enjoyed being

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 3>in control. But why would he shoot those deputies with

0:33:56.640 --> 0:34:03.040
<v Speaker 3>so much to lose? In these weeks that turned into months,

0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 3>when a Mam Jamial sat in jail. The defense and

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 3>prosecution filed motions, often tedious and procedural, even if they

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:13.560
<v Speaker 3>were important. As part of a process called discovery, the

0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:16.080
<v Speaker 3>prosecution was required to share with the defense the evidence

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:19.040
<v Speaker 3>they'd gathered, especially anything that might point to a mam

0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Jamial's innocence. Martin asked the prosecution if they had anything

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:25.680
<v Speaker 3>in their files about surveillance of a Mam Jamial or

0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:29.359
<v Speaker 3>informant in the mass ged. They said no, but that

0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:32.920
<v Speaker 3>didn't necessarily mean those things weren't happening because the FBI

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:36.720
<v Speaker 3>wasn't required to turn anything over. So Martin kept pushing

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:37.839
<v Speaker 3>the prosecution to help.

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:42.040
<v Speaker 5>I was saying, listen, you can't get it, they'll give

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 5>it to you, you know, But they refused to do that.

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 3>The informant piece, you had a sense that there was

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:51.920
<v Speaker 3>one there. Why why did you think that?

0:34:53.160 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 5>You know, that was more a suspicion of knowing the

0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 5>history of the FBI and all. I mean that they

0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 5>thought he was, you know, doing all sorts of things

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.279
<v Speaker 5>they never could prove, but we thought that they might

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:07.160
<v Speaker 5>have played somebody in the community to try to make

0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:10.239
<v Speaker 5>a case against al Amine on all their suspicions of

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:11.280
<v Speaker 5>criminal activity.

0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:16.319
<v Speaker 3>Which were not true, and if there were someone there,

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 3>what would be the significance of that, Well, if there

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:21.840
<v Speaker 3>weren't a formant there that night, one.

0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.520
<v Speaker 5>You know, this is all sort of speculation, of course,

0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:28.040
<v Speaker 5>but one that that person might know more of what

0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:31.239
<v Speaker 5>happened that night, might know whether there was somebody else

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.120
<v Speaker 5>was involved in the shooting, or that they were somehow

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:39.279
<v Speaker 5>other involved in this situation and involved in trying to

0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 5>frame all amine for this murder.

0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 3>I see, I see, well in either case that there

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.719
<v Speaker 3>was some type of exculpatory aspect to Yeah.

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, they may know stuff we don't know.

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:55.480
<v Speaker 3>The FBI orn't informant. They might have information that could

0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:58.480
<v Speaker 3>help a manage meals defense that could prove them innocent,

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:01.839
<v Speaker 3>even it would be information that they weren't likely to

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 3>just hand over. Martin filed a motion calling for the

0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 3>judge to order any confidential informants be revealed, and the

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.719
<v Speaker 3>judge said a series of hearings that were closed to

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.680
<v Speaker 3>the public, we were able to get the transcripts for

0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.719
<v Speaker 3>at least some of them, although sections are blacked out,

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 3>The FBI said, and lawyers to protect the bureau's information,

0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 3>but Martin was still able to question a few agents,

0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:31.040
<v Speaker 3>including a key agent named Bill Gant. That's a name

0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 3>to remember, Bill Gant. Basically, what Martin uncovered before the

0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:41.480
<v Speaker 3>trial was this Gant was investigating a Mam Jamil during

0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:45.640
<v Speaker 3>the nineties. The reason for the investigation wasn't clear, but

0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Gant had informants inside the mass Jet.

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Martin also learned that on March.

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Seventeen, two thousand, the day after the shootout, while law

0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:56.800
<v Speaker 3>enforcement at all levels were looking for a Mam Jamil,

0:36:57.480 --> 0:36:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Gant was in touch with the confidential source in the

0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:03.960
<v Speaker 3>West End. Gant had informants in the West End. So

0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:07.239
<v Speaker 3>what did they seen? What did they know? Could they

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 3>have been involved in the shooting? These were the kind

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:11.800
<v Speaker 3>of questions Martin had for the FBI.

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:17.240
<v Speaker 5>You know, they were acting like, well, we're not the

0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:20.239
<v Speaker 5>prosecuting agency in this case. We don't have to give

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:22.920
<v Speaker 5>you stuff, we don't need to give you or we're

0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.480
<v Speaker 5>required to give you. We said, no, you guys were

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.799
<v Speaker 5>parcel of this. You were part of the arrest. But

0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:30.640
<v Speaker 5>I never felt we got a full story from the

0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:32.360
<v Speaker 5>FBI about what happened.

0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 3>The proceedings kept moving and finally, about a year and

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 3>a half after a man Jimial was arrested. The trial

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.800
<v Speaker 3>was scheduled to begin, but the day before jury selection

0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 3>was September eleventh, two.

0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Thousand and one.

0:37:50.480 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 3>More on the next episode of Radical. Radical is a

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:18.800
<v Speaker 3>production of Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart Podcasts. Radical

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:21.520
<v Speaker 3>was reported and written by Johnny Kaufman and me Mosey.

0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:26.680
<v Speaker 3>Secret Johnny Kauffman is our senior producer. Sheba Joseph is

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:31.560
<v Speaker 3>our associate producer. Editing by Eric Benson, Johnny Coffin, Emily

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Martinez and Matt Cher. Fact checking by Sophie Hurwitz, Kaylin Lynch,

0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 3>and Layla Dos. Original music by Kyle Murdoch and by

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Ray Murray of Organized Noise. Sound design and mixing by

0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:48.600
<v Speaker 3>Kevin Seaman. Recording by Ewan Leed Treum Ewen and Sheba Joseph.

0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Campside Media's operations team is Doug Slaywan, Ashley Warren, Eliah Papes,

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:56.919
<v Speaker 3>Destiny Dingle, and Sabina Merra.

0:38:58.120 --> 0:38:59.439
<v Speaker 2>The executive producers at.

0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:03.840
<v Speaker 3>Campside Media are Josh Dean, Vanessa, Gregoriatis, Adam Hoff, and

0:39:03.960 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 3>Matt Cher. For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers are.

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.

0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:15.239
<v Speaker 3>The Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Matt Frederick and

0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:18.399
<v Speaker 3>Alex Williams, with additional support from Trevor Young.