1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or their employees. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: suitable for everyone. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 3: Radical was released every Tuesday and brought to you absolutely free, 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 3: But if you want ad free listening and early access 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 3: to next week's episode, subscribe to tenderfoot Plus. For more information, 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 3: check out tenderfootplus dot com. 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: Enjoy the episode. 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 4: Gamsite Media. 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: After he was arrested in Lowndes County, a ma'am Jamil 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 3: Elamine was taken to a jail in Montgomery, Alabama. He 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: had been free for twenty five years, but now he 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 3: was back behind bars and back in the court system. 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: His first appearance would be the next morning at a 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: courthouse named for a man whose career in politics started 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 3: with the KKK and ended on the US Supreme Court. 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 3: It was Alabama. Armed marshals drove a Mamjamial there. Shackled 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 3: and handcuffed. He emerged from a van into public view, 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 3: wearing loose fitting gray sweats pants, pockets hanging inside out disheveled. 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 3: He said just a few words to a gaggle of reporters. 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: The governmental conspiracy. Man, this is a governmental conspiracy. 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 5: Weren't involved in news. 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: This is a governmental conspiracy, he said, and he denied 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 3: being involved in the shooting. US Marshal James Ergus was 28 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 3: also still in Alabama. He had stuck round after helping 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: to capture a Mamjamil, and he was among those waiting 30 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: inside the courtroom when a Mam Jamil was brought in. 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: James was standing at the entrance when he felt something. 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 6: It was just a horrible energy and I didn't know why, 33 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 6: and then I and then I realized that he was 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 6: right behind me. 35 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 4: It was just a. 36 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 6: Very unusual I just felt bad. I mean, I don't know. 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 6: I don't know how sixplained it is. I went from 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 6: feeling great and fine to just feeling bad for a second. 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 6: You know, they went away, But it was it exactly 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 6: correlated with his. 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: Closeness to me, James said, he since the force of evil, 42 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: I won't argue with the fact that he felt something. 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: I imagine that we can pick up on phenomena that 44 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: we might call energy. Everyone has walked into a room 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: and said something feels off, But those perceptions are subjective. 46 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: I bet I would have picked up on something different 47 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: if I'd been in the courtroom that day and Ma'am 48 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: Jamil had been in a cell all night, forced into 49 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: a moment of stillness after four days on the run, 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: his mind must have been racing, and he emerged from 51 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: whatever darkness that was into the glare of the press, 52 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: and then suddenly he was at the mercy of the court. 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 3: Who's to say that in that moment something wasn't radiating 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 3: off of him, something that we don't really have words. 55 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: For, but evil. 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: I don't really use the word, and so I'm not 57 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 3: sure I would have felt it. We perceive what we 58 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: focus on. James everyone, we're all moving through slightly different realities. 59 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: Crazy to think about that in the context of a 60 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: court case. 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: In Alabama. 62 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 3: There was some legal bureaucracy that needed to play itself 63 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: out issues not directly related to the shooting in the 64 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: West End. Ammamdmil was indicted in Fulton County relatively quickly, 65 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: in a little over a month, and so it was 66 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: time for him to be brought back to Georgia. The 67 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: news media TV especially had been following the legal procedures closely, 68 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: and a mam Jamil's trip back was something of a climax. 69 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 6: There was a bajillion news cruise that wanted to follow 70 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 6: the motorcade back, but if the motorcade was a trick, 71 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 6: he was never in the motorcade. 72 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 3: Instead, a mam Jamil was taken in a helicopter. James 73 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: said he was quiet on the trip, no supervillain vibes. 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,559 Speaker 6: We put him in an suv without a motorcade, drove 75 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 6: him to a landing site, and they flew him directly 76 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 6: to the prison and unloaded him in Atlanta. 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: Before that first appearance in court, when a mam Jamil 78 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: called out a conspiracy, he wanted people to see a 79 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: government capable of trickery and deceit, for people to shift 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: their focus. I'm not sure many were convinced. I'm not 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: sure I'm convinced, but there's no doubt that a mam 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: Jmi in his days as a revolutionary was the target 83 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,559 Speaker 3: of a government conspiracy at the highest levels. The press 84 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: were none the wiser, and it would take decades for 85 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: the public to come to grips with what happened to him. 86 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 3: The force of evil, James said he felt in the courtroom. 87 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: Maybe it was just the anger of the old h 88 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: Rap Brown from Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart podcasts. 89 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 3: This is Radical, I'm Mostly Secret, Episode three, Messiah. If 90 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: Rap Brown was larger than life, there's one moment that 91 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 3: supersized him, that landed his name in the newspaper headlines 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: and on the evening news. It was a speed she 93 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: gave in nineteen sixty seven at a rally and a 94 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: town in Maryland called Cambridge. The irony is that few 95 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 3: people seemed to know for sure what actually happened at 96 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 3: this rally, like what really happened on the ground, But 97 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: stories about Rap took flight afterwards, stories that forced people 98 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: to pick sides and to reinforce narratives that weren't necessarily true. 99 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: The late sixties was a time when white people were 100 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 3: scared and black people were angry, and people saw in 101 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: Rap who. 102 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: They needed to see. 103 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: He emerged as this phantasm with a shaky foundation in reality, 104 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 3: not that there was even a consensus on reality. Cambridge, Maryland, 105 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 3: is an industrial city of about ten thousand on Maryland's 106 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: eastern shore. Peter Levy, a historian, wrote a book about it. 107 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 7: So in the early sixties. From roughly nineteen sixty two 108 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 7: through nineteen sixty four, Cambridge had been really one of 109 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 7: the hotbeds of civil rights activism in the country. Though 110 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 7: not as well known as a place like Birmingham or Selma, 111 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 7: it garnered a great deal of attention. 112 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: In Cambridge, there was an all white fire company that 113 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: basically ran the city. It was technically private, but the 114 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 3: fire company was funded with public money and the members 115 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 3: usually decided who held political office in city government. Civil 116 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: rights activists in Cambridge had some wins, though They pushed 117 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 3: the city to pass a disegregation ordinance, but it was 118 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: a victory that stoked the backlash. White residents who wanted 119 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: to maintain the status quo began to raise their voices. 120 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 3: The fire company operated the community pool, and instead of desegregating, 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: they just shut it down. 122 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 7: It would rather have no community pool than how blacks 123 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 7: swim with them in a desegregated fashion. So it is, 124 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 7: you know, it is the power broker, and it had 125 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 7: been at juggernauts with the black community for years. 126 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: George Wallace, the staunch segregationist and governor of Alabama, was 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 3: running for president, and he held a rally at the 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: building operated by the fire company. 129 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 7: The percentage of whites who showed up for that was 130 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 7: really really high. And in fact, the political leadership in 131 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 7: Cambridge changes after that, and now more conservative elements took. 132 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: Over the right word shift in Cambridge among the white community. 133 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: Is it fair to call that like a more open 134 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: embrace of white supremacist ideology. 135 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's the whole difficulty with the term backlash. 136 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 7: It's more of a maybe I wish I called as 137 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 7: a retrenchment. I see it as partly it's almost a 138 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 7: premonition of the times we're in today, of a populist 139 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 7: white populist upsearch that takes place. 140 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 3: And in nineteen sixty seven, the National States Rights Party 141 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,119 Speaker 3: held a white power. 142 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: Rally in Cambridge. 143 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: The organization had ties to the KKK and the American 144 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: Nazi Party. After the event, the Cambridge police chief Bryce Kinneman, 145 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: he walked off with the party's leader appearing to protect him. 146 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: About a week later, rap would come to town. 147 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: He was chairman of SNAK at the time, the Student 148 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 3: on Violent Coordinating Committee and some activists in Cambridge invited 149 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 3: him to come speak. 150 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 7: He's really relatively unknown until he goes to Cambridge in 151 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 7: nineteen sixty seven. Brown, like a lot of black activists, 152 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 7: thinks that there is a lot of change taking place, 153 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 7: and if he can foster that change, he's going to 154 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 7: do it. I mean, he understood, having been in the South, 155 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 7: that sometimes the change would take place first and foremost 156 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 7: at the community level, and he's trying to help community 157 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 7: activists out. 158 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 3: Before Rap got to Cambridge, the police chief Kinneman, he 159 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 3: ordered his officers into the streets. State troopers were mobilized too, 160 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: and the National Guard was on standby. Rap arrived at 161 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: around eight forty five at night. A crowd of at 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 3: least three hundred and fifty people had gathered in the 163 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 3: city's Black neighborhood. He climbed on top of a car. 164 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: Rap stood tall above the crowd. He had a small afro, 165 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: black sunglasses, looked like he was wearing jeans and a 166 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: denim jacket. When he spoke, he jabbed his right corner 167 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: finger in front of him. No microphone, no megaphone. 168 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 4: Animals, Monkeys are animal. 169 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: We got this recording from the Maryland State Archives. It's incomplete, 170 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: and it seems to only include the most inflammatory parts 171 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 3: of Rap's speech. He's using a lot of language that 172 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: I wouldn't use, and then I don't like, but I'm 173 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: going to use some of it here just to make 174 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 3: sure you can understand what he's saying. 175 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: We're going to carry you. 176 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 7: And the only thing I have to respects first. 177 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 5: The. 178 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: Man is moving to kill you. He said. 179 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: The only thing that the honky respects this force. In 180 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, the epithets and the naked calls for 181 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: violence grabbed most of the attention, but in the less 182 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 3: traffic parts of the speech that we don't have audio of, 183 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: there's a pretty clear eyed assessment of the hypocrisy of 184 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: the white establishment. You call us lazy, but you built 185 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: a country with slave labor. You kill over in Vietnam 186 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: for your cause. Send black people to kill for your cause, 187 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 3: but we shouldn't kill for our cause. You talk about 188 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: black people looting, but you looted this land from its 189 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: native inhabitants. Rapp's response to the double standard was pragmatic. 190 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: What gives them power over us is their willingness to 191 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 3: use violence, so we should use it to What he 192 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 3: seemed to overlook were the ways that brute force wasn't 193 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: sustainable for white people. For one thing, they had a 194 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 3: major revolt on their hands. Violence as an idea was spreading. 195 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 8: Because that's what he about to do to you, believe me, 196 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 8: unlike he would do to you. 197 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 6: But do it to him first. 198 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: Rap said, don't try to love the honky to death. 199 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: Shoot him to death before he shoots you. 200 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 3: He also spoke about what was happening in Cambridge. Nearby 201 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 3: there was a dilapidated school, a symbol of unequal education 202 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 3: in the city. 203 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: Rap said it should have been burned all. 204 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 3: The way down a long time ago. Burn that school 205 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: down and take over the white school. If America don't 206 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 3: come around, he said, we should burn it down. Rap 207 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 3: spoke for about an hour, and afterward the crowd mostly dispersed. 208 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: There's no riot, no fire. Law enforcement and the police 209 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: chief Keneman, they got a recording of the speech, probably 210 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: the same one we have. 211 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 7: I think you have to see. Keineman is a kind 212 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 7: of a boiling cattle and kind of a pressure cooker, 213 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 7: and the pressure has been building. 214 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: Up for years. 215 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 7: He's getting really really angry. And other authorities at the 216 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 7: state attorney General, the head of the state police, they're 217 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 7: actually trying to calm Bryce Kineman down. You know, he 218 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 7: wants to just go in and clean the place up. 219 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: At this point, it's late at night, and the story 220 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 3: goes that Rap and a few other activists are walking 221 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: a woman home a deputy sheriff fired what he alleged 222 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: were two warning shots, one on the ground and one 223 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: in the air. It's a shotgun, though book shot and 224 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 3: a pellet hit Rap in the head. 225 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 7: Brown scared for his life, maybe rightfully so. 226 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: Rap wasn't there for long though There's. 227 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 7: Some people actually said that he was actually secreted out 228 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 7: in a casket and he leaves town now. I'm not 229 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 7: sure if the police officers knew that, but he's gone. 230 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: Many of the people who heard Raps speak, they. 231 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: Went back to their homes on the Black side of town. 232 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 3: Cambridge was relatively quiet, but a fire was about to catch, 233 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: a fire that draw the attention of the most powerful 234 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: men in the country, and even though Rap was on 235 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: his way out of Cambridge, those men would decide to 236 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: come after him. In nineteen sixty seven, the same year 237 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: that Rapp spoke in Cambridge, Maryland, there were more than 238 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty uprisings of black people and cities 239 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: around the country. 240 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: And one hundred places Detroit is a fired. 241 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 7: One hundred square blocks are now under sea. 242 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 5: Looting and shooting by both police and rooftop snipers, and 243 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 5: three Negroes were killed. 244 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 4: And still the. 245 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 6: Sirens whine and the victims come in. 246 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 7: The fire has been raging for more than thirty. 247 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: Minutes for then. 248 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: This is where the riot in the city hospital WCBSTV 249 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: news in Newark. 250 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: Forty three people killed in Detroit, twenty six killed in Newark, 251 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: thousands arrested. The period came to be known as the 252 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: Long Hot Summer. Black people were angry and white people 253 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: were scared. Everyone was watching, not least of all the 254 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: President of the United States, Lyndon Johnson. He was concerned, 255 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: maybe even angry. A few years earlier he had signed 256 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: the Voting Rights Act, but that hadn't really eased the tension. 257 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: America was still in distress. 258 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 4: We will not tolerate lawlessness. We will not endure violence. 259 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: This is Johnson speaking at a press conference about the uprisings. 260 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 4: It will not be tolerated. This nation will do whatever 261 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: it is necessary to do to suppress and to punish 262 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 4: those who engage in it. 263 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: He meant black people, especially black leaders of the uprisings. 264 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: The rebellions because President Johnson's government, the FBI in particular, 265 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 3: would set law and order aside when it came to 266 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: and I'm using Johnson's words here, suppressing and punishing those involved. 267 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 3: The FBI would employ covert, extra judicial, many would say, 268 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 3: illegal actions to target Rap and other black leaders whatever 269 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: was necessary. Rap would feel the effects of this for years. 270 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: The night that Rap delivered his speech in Cambridge, Johnson 271 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 3: and lots of other powerful white men in Washington, they 272 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: would have been watching TV reports about uprisings around the country. 273 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: In Cambridge, after Rap had left town, maybe in a casket, 274 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: a fire was about to catch the historian Peter Levy, 275 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: he spent years looking into how things went down. Cambridge 276 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: was quiet that night until a bunch of white men 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: night writers drove through the black. 278 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 7: Neighborhood, and there are disputes about what they were doing, 279 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 7: but many in the black community thought that they were 280 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 7: being fired upon. Generally speaking, the police would not stop 281 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 7: these night riders. Later on in the evening, they did 282 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 7: stop him and claim they found no weapons, but many 283 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 7: of the black community didn't believe that. Some police reported 284 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 7: that they were actually shooting off fireworks, and at one 285 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 7: point some black individuals began to arm themselves, and two 286 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 7: black men were later arrested for firing back, and one 287 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 7: of those shots hit an officer. Didn't seriously do any harm, 288 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 7: but when the police chief, Rice Kunnerman, heard that his 289 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 7: officer officer wrote and had been hit, he just goes 290 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 7: you know, he goes crazy. 291 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, a small fire had started in that old elementary 292 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 3: school that it spoken about, the symbol of unequal education 293 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: that he said should burn to the ground. It took 294 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 3: forty five minutes for that all white fire company to 295 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: even be alerted, and when the company got there, the 296 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 3: firefighters kept their distance just beyond the border of the 297 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 3: black section of town for at least an hour, if 298 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: not longer. 299 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 2: The head of the fire companies said his men. 300 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 3: Didn't feel safe enough to go into the neighborhood, even 301 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 3: though other white people had gone in that night. 302 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 7: The black city councilmen and leading business leaders asked for 303 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 7: the right to put the fire out. You know, said 304 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 7: give us. The equipment wasn't given to him, and the 305 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 7: response essentially of the police chief was you know you 306 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 7: and he used the N word started this fire. You know, 307 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 7: you guys can put it out. But then they weren't 308 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 7: wouldn't help him put it out. 309 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 3: Finally, the state attorney General got involved, and he convinced 310 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: the fire company to extinguish the fire. 311 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 7: And by then two whole square blocks of the black community, 312 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 7: including a number of businesses and a church of homes, 313 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 7: had been burned to the ground. 314 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: The night of the fire, President Johnson called an emergency 315 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: meeting at the White House about the uprisings. There was 316 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 3: a small gathering of powerful men. The Secretary of Defense 317 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: was there, the Attorney General, a Supreme Court justice, and 318 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 3: maybe most importantly, j Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI. 319 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: Hoover had been leading the bureau for decades, and he 320 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: was the one who launched the notorious counterintelligence program known 321 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 3: as Cointel pro. It was aimed at surveilling and disrupting 322 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 3: American political organizations, mostly on the left. According to Hoover, 323 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 3: in this meeting at the White House, President Johnson was 324 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 3: of the opinion that the uprisings of the Long Hot 325 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: Summer they were coordinated by black activists. The next day, 326 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 3: Hoover from the FBI called Johnson. Even with all the 327 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 3: intelligence at his disposal, Hoover wasn't able to point to 328 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 3: any coordinated conspiracy, but he named a Trap Brown that 329 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 3: someone the President might blame and called him, quote, one 330 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 3: of the worst in the country. A warrant was put 331 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 3: out for Rap's arrest. The government would do whatever it 332 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: took to stop him. FBI agents visited Rap's lawyer. 333 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: Afterward. The lawyer called Rap. 334 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 3: And they made plans for Rap to fly from Washington, 335 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 3: DC to New York City, where he would turn himself in. 336 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 3: But Rap's lawyer alleged the FBI was listening in on 337 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 3: that call because when Rap went to the airport, he 338 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 3: was arrested and charged with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. 339 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 4: My fellow Americans, we have endured a week such as 340 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 4: no nation should live through a time of violence and tragedy. 341 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 3: Three days after Cambridge, President Johnson delivered a televised address. 342 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 3: It was like he was speaking directly to Rap. 343 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 4: The apostles of violence were their ugly drum beat of hatred. 344 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 4: Must know that they're now heading for a ruin and disaster, 345 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 4: and every man who really wants progress, our justice, our 346 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 4: equality must stand against them and against their miserable virus 347 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 4: of hate. 348 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: Targeting Rap. It was an easy way to shift a 349 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 3: tension from the crappy condition to police violence that often 350 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: spark black people to take to the streets in the 351 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 3: first place. Then a month after Cambridge, the FBI Director 352 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: j Edgar Hoover kicked off a new operation under the 353 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: Cointel pro umbrella. It would target what he called black 354 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 3: nationalist hate groups. 355 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 7: And so it begins to launch efforts to and this 356 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 7: is Hoover's words, to neutralize black radicals. Another definition of 357 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 7: black radicals is quite expansive because in that includes Martin 358 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 7: Luther King, who had been disliked by Hoover, disliked as 359 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 7: a wrong term, hated by Hoover for years. 360 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 3: Expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize. 361 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: Those were the goals Hoover and. 362 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: The FBI wanted to prevent the rise of what they 363 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: called a messiah. The FBI paid informants who infiltrated civil 364 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: rights and black power organizations. Regular reports came in to 365 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 3: FBI headquarters from agents surveilling leaders like Rap reading the 366 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 3: documents that have been declassified. It looks like the FBI 367 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 3: was trying to secretly create conflict between Rap and other. 368 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: Black power leaders. 369 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 3: And then there's this wild one which actually got approval 370 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 3: from FBI headquarters to make a comic book vilifying Rap. 371 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: From what I can tell for Rap, at least, none 372 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 3: of these dirty tricks amounted to much. What was truly 373 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 3: damaging was a scheme among federal and local law enforcement 374 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 3: to Rapp caught up in the legal system. This unfolded 375 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 3: over years. It began in Cambridge, where Rap was charged 376 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 3: with arson the same day. I should point out that 377 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: Hoover mentioned Rap to the President. The county prosecutor in 378 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 3: Maryland later told a reporter that he charged Rap to 379 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 3: quote get him on the FBI Most Wanted list. 380 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: The charges weren't based on any evidence. 381 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: A few days after Rap was indicted on those charges, 382 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: he flew to Louisiana to visit his family in Baton Rouge, 383 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 3: and he took a gun with him, an M one carbine. 384 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: You could do that kind of. 385 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 3: Thing back then, take a gun on a plane, check 386 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: it in with the crew. The whole time he was 387 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 3: in Louisiana, a Rap was followed by local police, and 388 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: when he got back to New York, he was arrested 389 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: by the FBI for carrying a gun across state lines. 390 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: A while under indictment, and the judge in the gun 391 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 3: case appeared to hardly even pretend to play by the rules. 392 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: He was a former FBI agent, and at some point 393 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: he was overheard saying that he was going to quote 394 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 3: get that nigger, referring to Rap. On top of that, 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 3: the legal bureaucracy took its toll filings and hearings. Rapp 396 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 3: actually spent some time in jail for violating his bond. 397 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 3: It was a lot, and he stepped down as chairman 398 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: of SNICK. To survive as a leader in a black 399 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: activist at the time, it was something like a small miracle. 400 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 3: Malcolm X was assassinated in nineteen sixty five and the 401 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 3: FBI was involved, Martin Luther King Junior in nineteen sixty eight, 402 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: the Black Panther leader Fred Hampton in nineteen sixty nine, 403 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 3: and what many consider a plot orchestrated by the FBI. 404 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: And then in nineteen seventy, the night before Rap was 405 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 3: set to face trial in Maryland for those fake arson 406 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: charges and explosion. 407 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 7: The bomb was so bad that it totally eviscerated the car. 408 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 7: If there were people who were trying to kill Brown 409 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 7: and maybe even tracking Brown, they might have had good 410 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 7: reas reason to believe that Brown was in the car, 411 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 7: and most people argue that Brown was the target. 412 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 3: But Rap wasn't in the car. Two other Snake activists 413 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 3: were killed, Ralph Featherstone and William J. Payne, were in 414 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 3: Maryland to try to protect Rap. In the aftermath, law 415 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: enforcement argued that Featherstone, in pain had plans to bomb 416 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: the courthouse and those plans went awry. But the Black 417 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 3: press and Black activists they saw a failed assassination attempt 418 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: with good reason to fear for his life, Rap went underground. 419 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: Hoover put him on the FBI ten Most Wanted list. Ultimately, 420 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 3: Rap wasn't convicted of any of those charges. I don't 421 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 3: think it's a stretch to say there was a bona 422 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 3: fide conspiracy against him, as much as these kinds of 423 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: things can truly be coordinated. And so three decades later, 424 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 3: in two thousand, as a Maam Jimil Alamin's trial approached, 425 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 3: his defense this team wanted to make the jurors see 426 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 3: that conspiracy, but see that it never really stopped, that 427 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: it continued through the night of the shootout, and the 428 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 3: defense wasn't just coming up with this out of nowhere. 429 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 3: Evidence would emerge that showed law enforcement was surveilling a 430 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 3: Ma'am Jamil in the years and even the weeks leading 431 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 3: up to March sixteenth, two thousand, when gunfire erupted in 432 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 3: the West End. By April of two thousand, about a 433 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 3: month after the shootout in the West End, a Ma'am 434 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 3: Jamil Elamin was in jail in Atlanta at an overcrowded 435 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 3: facility known for being short staffed and violent. He pleaded 436 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 3: not guilty when he went to court in Fulton County 437 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 3: and was ordered to be detained until trial. 438 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: It was decades after the. 439 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: Long hot Summer and that meeting of powerful men at 440 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: the White House. The surveillance of cointail pro was considered 441 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: an artific of the sixties and seventies. But what if 442 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 3: it never really stopped. What if there's surveillance and legal 443 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 3: harassment followed Rapp when he left prison, moved to Atlanta, 444 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:16,719 Speaker 3: and became a man Jamil. That's what a Mam Jamil alleged. 445 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 3: During conversations with his defense team. He said that in 446 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: the weeks, months, and even years before he was arrested 447 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 3: in Alabama, he still felt that he was being watched. 448 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 3: He even figured there were informants in the mass jed 449 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 3: in the West End. 450 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 5: I think all means just because of his history with 451 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 5: the FBI, was suspicious about that was he had reason 452 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 5: to believe that might be true, but no hard evidence. 453 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 3: Jack Martin was a Man Jamil's lead defense attorney. Martin 454 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 3: and the other lawyers on the team, they didn't consider 455 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 3: a Man Jamil paranoid. They shared his suspicions, and if 456 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 3: the FBI was surveiling a Man Jamil, or if there 457 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: was an informant in the mass jed, they wanted to know. 458 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 3: That kind of information could be useful. It could even 459 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 3: prove a Maam Jamil was innocent. What if an informant 460 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: was at the scene of the shootout or if they 461 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: were somehow involved. 462 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 5: We felt that maybe some informant or somebody working for 463 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 5: the FBI in the community, we'd know something and that 464 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 5: they knew something that we didn't know. 465 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 3: And so as they prepared for a Mam Jamil's trial, 466 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 3: the defense team tried to squeeze as much information as 467 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: possible from the prosecution. 468 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: In federal law enforcement, the. 469 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 3: Fulton County DA had given notice he'd seek the death penalty. 470 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 3: He wanted the state of Georgia to kill a Mam 471 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 3: jamial for the murder of Deputy Ricky Kinchin and the 472 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 3: shooting of Deputy Algernon English. The court determined that Maam 473 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 3: Jamil couldn't afford to pay an attorney for an adequate defense. 474 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: His salary was listed as seven hundred dollars a month 475 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: and the savings were valued at twelve hundred dollars. But 476 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 3: that didn't mean he would end up with a lawyer 477 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: from the Public Defender's Office in Georgia. For death penalty cases, 478 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: the state will pay extra for the defense of the accused. 479 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 3: The judge would still have to approve the lawyers. But 480 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: a man Jimiale's family and closest supporters, they got to 481 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 3: work assembling a high powered legal team. There was Jack Martin, 482 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 3: a white guy who had lots of experience with death 483 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: penalty cases, and Tony Akxom, who's black. 484 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: He had a. 485 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: Reputation for representing civil rights leaders and politicians. 486 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: Here's Axom. 487 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 9: I could see myself not having been a lawyer, but 488 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 9: having been a stokely Carmichael on a trap round. It 489 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 9: is a thin line that separates who he was to 490 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 9: where I am. 491 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: Axelm and Martin were the two attorneys on the team 492 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 3: who I was able to interview. There was also Bruce Harvey, 493 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 3: a white ponytail liberal, and there was Michael Warren, an 494 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 3: African American Muslim from New York who helped get the 495 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 3: Central Park five exonerated. 496 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 9: If Jack would not a lawyer, he'd be a mathematician. 497 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 9: If Bruce was not a lawyer, Bruce would be a hippie. Okay, 498 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,959 Speaker 9: So all of us brought something different. 499 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: And if Michael Warren were not a lawyer. 500 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 8: Oh, Michael would be in the pits. I mean Michael 501 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 8: would be He'd be fighting the Russians. That's That's that's 502 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 8: who Michael would be. Absolutely all of us brought a different. 503 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 4: Mix to it. 504 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 3: With these different personalities, the hippie, the warrior, the mathematician 505 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 3: that's Martin, and the civil rights worker that's Axom. There 506 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 3: was sometimes conflict on the team, but Axholm said it 507 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 3: never created a serious problem because ultimately a man, Jamil 508 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 3: had final say. 509 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 9: If there's conflict, we say, Jamil, it's your call. So tension, 510 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 9: uh is not enough tension that it breaks or it 511 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 9: causes a ripple effect that we can't do what we 512 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 9: need to do. 513 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: With this outsized persona following him around a Mam Demio 514 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: managed to convey an image of courtesy and respectability in 515 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 3: the run up to the trial. In my quest to 516 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: pin him down, I'm finding him really slippery. Not only 517 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 3: do other people distort him into the embodiment of whatever 518 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: ends there seeking, he has his own way of shifting form. 519 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: I'm still trying to figure out if that's something unique 520 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 3: to him or what we all do. But yeah, slippery 521 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 3: and Mam Dmil's case did not go to trial quickly. 522 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: He sat in jail after he was arrested, weeks past, 523 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 3: then months. Tony Axam, Jack Martin, they met with him 524 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 3: and they got to know him at least a little bit. 525 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 9: He is six feet plus, okay, just his height commands 526 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 9: the room. He is slow to speak. He does not 527 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 9: speak with speed, and he does not speak with a 528 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 9: Southern draw. There is a deliberateness about him, and you 529 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 9: get the impression that he is an ema. So you 530 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 9: can feel that he has seen parts of the world, 531 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 9: and he's met with kings and queens and servants and slaves. 532 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 9: You can get that impression and feeling when you talk 533 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 9: to him. 534 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 5: Allaman was one of the most genuine and polite class overhead, 535 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 5: very self spoken, very a peacemaker. When you you say, well, 536 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 5: how yell? I mean, how you doing? He says? Siety, 537 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 5: he says, There's anything I can do for you. Have 538 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 5: no other client ever said that to me. That personality 539 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 5: just wasn't the same personality somebody get into a shootout 540 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 5: with the police. So I don't know. He struck me 541 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 5: as a very fascinating person great stories, very polite, very 542 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 5: wanting to help us as much as he could. 543 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: I heard from many people who met with the mam 544 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 3: Jamil or who have known him over the years, that 545 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 3: he would ask this question, is there anything I can 546 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 3: do for you? It's his go to line. He'd ask 547 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 3: folks across the counter at his corner store, He'd ask 548 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: folks across the plexic class in prison. Maybe he even 549 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 3: asked it in his days as a revolutionary. It's universally disarming. 550 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 3: I know he had this will to serve. I know 551 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: he had a fire inside. I know he enjoyed being 552 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: in control. But why would he shoot those deputies with 553 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 3: so much to lose? In these weeks that turned into months, 554 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: when a Mam Jamial sat in jail. The defense and 555 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 3: prosecution filed motions, often tedious and procedural, even if they 556 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 3: were important. As part of a process called discovery, the 557 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 3: prosecution was required to share with the defense the evidence 558 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 3: they'd gathered, especially anything that might point to a mam 559 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 3: Jamial's innocence. Martin asked the prosecution if they had anything 560 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 3: in their files about surveillance of a Mam Jamial or 561 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: informant in the mass ged. They said no, but that 562 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 3: didn't necessarily mean those things weren't happening because the FBI 563 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 3: wasn't required to turn anything over. So Martin kept pushing 564 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 3: the prosecution to help. 565 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 5: I was saying, listen, you can't get it, they'll give 566 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 5: it to you, you know, But they refused to do that. 567 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: The informant piece, you had a sense that there was 568 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 3: one there. Why why did you think that? 569 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 5: You know, that was more a suspicion of knowing the 570 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 5: history of the FBI and all. I mean that they 571 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 5: thought he was, you know, doing all sorts of things 572 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 5: they never could prove, but we thought that they might 573 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 5: have played somebody in the community to try to make 574 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 5: a case against al Amine on all their suspicions of 575 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 5: criminal activity. 576 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 3: Which were not true, and if there were someone there, 577 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: what would be the significance of that, Well, if there 578 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 3: weren't a formant there that night, one. 579 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 5: You know, this is all sort of speculation, of course, 580 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 5: but one that that person might know more of what 581 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 5: happened that night, might know whether there was somebody else 582 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 5: was involved in the shooting, or that they were somehow 583 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 5: other involved in this situation and involved in trying to 584 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 5: frame all amine for this murder. 585 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 3: I see, I see, well in either case that there 586 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 3: was some type of exculpatory aspect to Yeah. 587 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, they may know stuff we don't know. 588 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 3: The FBI orn't informant. They might have information that could 589 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 3: help a manage meals defense that could prove them innocent, 590 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 3: even it would be information that they weren't likely to 591 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 3: just hand over. Martin filed a motion calling for the 592 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 3: judge to order any confidential informants be revealed, and the 593 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 3: judge said a series of hearings that were closed to 594 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 3: the public, we were able to get the transcripts for 595 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 3: at least some of them, although sections are blacked out, 596 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 3: The FBI said, and lawyers to protect the bureau's information, 597 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: but Martin was still able to question a few agents, 598 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 3: including a key agent named Bill Gant. That's a name 599 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 3: to remember, Bill Gant. Basically, what Martin uncovered before the 600 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 3: trial was this Gant was investigating a Mam Jamil during 601 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 3: the nineties. The reason for the investigation wasn't clear, but 602 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 3: Gant had informants inside the mass Jet. 603 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: Martin also learned that on March. 604 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 3: Seventeen, two thousand, the day after the shootout, while law 605 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 3: enforcement at all levels were looking for a Mam Jamil, 606 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 3: Gant was in touch with the confidential source in the 607 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 3: West End. Gant had informants in the West End. So 608 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 3: what did they seen? What did they know? Could they 609 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 3: have been involved in the shooting? These were the kind 610 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 3: of questions Martin had for the FBI. 611 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 5: You know, they were acting like, well, we're not the 612 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 5: prosecuting agency in this case. We don't have to give 613 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 5: you stuff, we don't need to give you or we're 614 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 5: required to give you. We said, no, you guys were 615 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 5: parcel of this. You were part of the arrest. But 616 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 5: I never felt we got a full story from the 617 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 5: FBI about what happened. 618 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 3: The proceedings kept moving and finally, about a year and 619 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 3: a half after a man Jimial was arrested. The trial 620 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 3: was scheduled to begin, but the day before jury selection 621 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 3: was September eleventh, two. 622 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 2: Thousand and one. 623 00:37:50,480 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 3: More on the next episode of Radical. Radical is a 624 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 3: production of Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart Podcasts. Radical 625 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 3: was reported and written by Johnny Kaufman and me Mosey. 626 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 3: Secret Johnny Kauffman is our senior producer. Sheba Joseph is 627 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 3: our associate producer. Editing by Eric Benson, Johnny Coffin, Emily 628 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 3: Martinez and Matt Cher. Fact checking by Sophie Hurwitz, Kaylin Lynch, 629 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 3: and Layla Dos. Original music by Kyle Murdoch and by 630 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 3: Ray Murray of Organized Noise. Sound design and mixing by 631 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 3: Kevin Seaman. Recording by Ewan Leed Treum Ewen and Sheba Joseph. 632 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 3: Campside Media's operations team is Doug Slaywan, Ashley Warren, Eliah Papes, 633 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 3: Destiny Dingle, and Sabina Merra. 634 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 2: The executive producers at. 635 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 3: Campside Media are Josh Dean, Vanessa, Gregoriatis, Adam Hoff, and 636 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 3: Matt Cher. For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers are. 637 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 2: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. 638 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 3: The Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Matt Frederick and 639 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 3: Alex Williams, with additional support from Trevor Young.