1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: It's actually my one hundred and fiftieth episode today, and 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to all of 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: my listeners. I really wasn't sure if this kind of 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: show would work. People love their news of the day, 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: and The Carol Marcowitz Show is very much not about that. 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: I record a lot of these episodes several weeks out. 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: I tried to get to the bottom of people's personalities 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: and their stories and not what they think about you know, 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: what did Trump say today? So it was a gamble 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: and I love that it's working out, and so many 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: of you are listening. We've been clearing a million downloads 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: every quarter with only two episodes a week, and I 14 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: just feel so fortunate for you all. Thanks so much 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: for tuning in. So last weekend, I was laying by 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a resort pool Lazy River when a mom and her 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: approximately four year old by me, and the child was 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: like kind of playing and he said to his mom, 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: you're stupid. The mom responded, Hey, buddy, if you want 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: to talk to me like that, we're going to get 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: out of the water. I of course tweeted about it 22 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: and it's the sort of thing that went, you know, 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: semi viral, four thousand plus likes, lots of responses and retweets. 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: Most agreed with me. But somewhere in the. 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: Vein of what's your problem, this was handled perfectly. The 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: mom gave the kid a warning, what more do you want? 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: And to me, I don't see the parenting in this exchange, 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: and I say the words my kids aren't perfect a 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: lot because they're not. Obviously, no one is perfect, but 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: they're pretty close. If a kid can call his mom 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: stupid and get to continue about his day, I think 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: back to when my kids were a handful, and believe me, 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: they've been a handful each of them, and we'd have 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,639 Speaker 1: to leave a restaurant or something. They were not calling 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: us stupid or anything close. They were maybe acting up, 36 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: being loud in a restaurant, or like turning around and 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: staring at people. We really did cut down on all 38 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: kinds of antisocial behavior very early, because we thought, we 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: want to have these kids out in public with us. 40 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: We want to travel, we want to go out to eat, 41 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: and we don't want them to be monsters. One other 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: thing I tweeted about it is parents use this singsongy 43 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: voice that they learned on the internet, and this fake 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: gentle thing that kids know how to dismantle when they 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: should be lowering their voice to a growl and saying, 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: talk to me like that again, and you'll wish you hadn't. 47 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: I just hate that whole trend. It's supposed to be 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: gentle parenting, but it just sounds like acting to me buddy. 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: Calling your kid buddy rubs me the wrong way too. 50 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: It's not that I think you can never call your 51 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: kid buddy or people say, oh, you know, you shouldn't 52 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: be buddy with your kid. That's actually not it for me. 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: I don't mind that so much, but when they just 54 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: called you stupid. I also tweeted that I had a 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: friend once ask my husband and I which one of 56 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: us spanks the kids to get their good behavior. The 57 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 1: truth is we don't spank. 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: We don't have to. 59 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: I like to say I murder them with my eyes 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: if they misbehave. I'm not bragging here exactly. It started young, 61 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: and my kids know what. 62 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: Is expected of them. 63 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: They know what behavior we won't tolerate. Spanking also is 64 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: very after the fact. 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: To me. 66 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: It's the kid has done something and now you spank 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: them to not have them do it again in the future, 68 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: and they're going to have to remember that for next time. 69 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: For me, it's more like in the moment, it's my 70 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: eyes that will make them shape up. And my last 71 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: point on X was I feel like a lot of 72 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: parents think their kids will become a different person when 73 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: they get older. Maybe, but in my experience, if you 74 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: don't lay down the law when they're four, you'll have 75 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: a much harder time at fourteen. They need to respect you, 76 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: and that starts young. And that last point is really everything. 77 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: There are lots of ways to parent. Maybe mine is wrong, 78 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: maybe it won't work for you. I can't say, but 79 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: I can tell you that people don't change all that 80 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: much unless you make them change. And the way your 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: kid is to you today is largely how they'll be 82 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: in the future. If they don't respect you now, they're 83 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: not going to respect you as time goes on. A 84 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: lot of people seem to think you can just not 85 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: fix bad behavior at four years old because they'll grow 86 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: out of it. I haven't seen. 87 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: Evidence of that, to be honest. 88 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: If you excuse something today, you will likely excuse it tomorrow. 89 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: I always love hearing from listeners, but would particularly love 90 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: to hear from you on this What do you think? 91 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: Am I right or wrong? Thanks for listening. Coming up 92 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: next an interview with David Hazzoni. Join us after the 93 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: break and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz shaw On iHeart. 94 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: My guest today is David Hazoni. David is an award 95 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: winning editor, translator, and author, and director and Steinhardt Senior Fellow. 96 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: At the Z three Institute. 97 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: His newest work, Young Zionist Voices, A New Generation Speaks Out, 98 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: brings together the next generation of impassioned Jewish leaders. 99 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: Hi, David, so nice to have you on. 100 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: Hi, Carol, thank you so much. 101 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: I feel like I've known you a long time on 102 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: the old internets, but I would love to know how you. 103 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: Got into this world. Where did you get your start? 104 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: Wow? So you're always a young Zionist, that's right. So 105 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: I was born into an Israeli family in the United 106 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 3: States at a time when there weren't a lot of 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: Israelis in America. It wasn't like today where you have 108 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: sort of these big, you know, movements and organizations and 109 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: whole communities that are of Israeli Americans. The concept Israeli 110 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 3: Americans didn't exist as a label. And in fact, when 111 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: I was a kid, my non Jewish friends didn't know 112 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: what Israeli was. This is the nineteen seventies. Israel's only 113 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: been around for thirty years, and so like, you know, 114 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: a fourth grader is like, Hazoni, what is that? And 115 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 3: I said, it's Israeli, Like there's no such thing. It's Italian. 116 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: That's kind of Italian. 117 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I mean, I guess my grandfather's original name 118 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: was Hasanovic and all my grands that's real Italian. Yeah, 119 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 3: And all my grandparents moved to the Land of Israel 120 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 3: in the nineteen twenties nineteen thirties, and it was very common, 121 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 3: especially going through the nineteen fifties, it was very common 122 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: for people to Hebraisize their last names as part of 123 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 3: this sort of new resurgent Jewish homeland. Hasanovich became Hazoni 124 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: and that's what I got. 125 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: Where did you grow up? 126 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: So? I was born in Princeton, New Jersey, and I 127 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: was there to well ninth grade, and then my father 128 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: was a professor there and then he moved to Boston University. 129 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: So I moved to Brookline, Massachusetts, where I went to 130 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: high school, and then I started college in at Columbia 131 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: University in New York became I spent a year in 132 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: Israel studying in Yeshiva, kind of got religion, as they say. 133 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: Then finished my degrees at Yeshiva University, and then after 134 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: I moved to Israel in ninety four, I got a 135 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: PhD at Hebrew University in Jewish philosophy. 136 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: And I was committed to this whole Jewish thing. 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: I'm yeah, I'm on board, and you know, I look, 138 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: I'm actually from the tribe of Levi. I'm not even 139 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: strictly you know, the word Jew comes from Judea, from 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: the tribe of Judah, and I always like to say, well, 141 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 3: I'm kind of Jewish, but I'm really a Levi and 142 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: that confuses everybody, and. 143 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: Kids in Princeton don't know what to do with that. 144 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: No, no, they're just like, now you're Italian. So I 145 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: actually got started while I was doing my graduate degree 146 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 3: in Israel. I got started in the think tank world. 147 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: I was one of the original people at the Shalem 148 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: Center in Jerusalem, and I ended up editing its journal, 149 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: and I spent a lot of time, a lot of 150 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 3: years kind of watching how books and the ideas in books, 151 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 3: and you know what we call public intellectuals, how they 152 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 3: really helped shape the debate how a single book can come. 153 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: So for just for example, we had an unknown historian 154 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 3: by the name of Michael Orn came to us in 155 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven and said, I want to do a 156 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: book on Israel's War of Independence nineteen forty eight. And 157 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 3: the think tankers were like, you know, that's the wrong book. 158 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: It's thirty years after the Sixth Day War. The archives 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 3: are all opening up. The bad guys are out there already, 160 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: the new historians they call them, saying that that Israel 161 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: deliberately started the war in order to capture territory. What 162 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: we really need is a definitive history of the Sixth 163 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 3: Day War. And he agreed to do that, and the 164 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: book became Oxford University Press's first ever bestseller. They didn't 165 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: know what to do with it, and he became a 166 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: very famous person. And I've kind of seen over and 167 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: over again, how you know, two thousand and eight, whenever 168 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: it was a book comes out called Startup Nation, right 169 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: by Dancy Noor and sault Singer. Before that, people would 170 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 3: talk about Israel, like you know, it's the only democracy 171 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: in the Middle East, and it's David against Goliath and 172 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: all of these sort of conflict related concepts. Excuse me. 173 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: It along comes this one book and it creates this 174 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: whole other lens through which we can understand the country. 175 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 3: And now everybody knows the expression startup nation, what percentages? 176 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 3: I do. I like to do this. I'd just like 177 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 3: to ask people in a room, how many of you 178 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: actually read the book. 179 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: I read it. 180 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: It was very okay, but I read. 181 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: It, but I read it only like in the last 182 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: five years, and so it's kind of an It's not 183 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: not that it's outdated, but there is. 184 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: A newer, you know, version of it out now. But yeah, 185 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: it was. It was great and it was eye opening 186 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: even reading it so late. 187 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, so I've just been very aware and sensitive 188 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: to the mechanics the craft, how you know, an idea, 189 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 3: how a book can kind of either capture a moment. 190 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 3: Take for example, Darrel Horn's People of Dead Jews. Okay, 191 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: that was a book that just sprung up out of nowhere, 192 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: very well written, very well researched. But the most important 193 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 3: thing was the title, because the title just grabbed what 194 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: so many people were already feeling. And you see, you know, 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 3: and it's not just in our world, it's also in 196 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: the world in general. All these expressions that people use, 197 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: tipping point and clash of civilizations and long tail, all 198 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: of them go back to books. So in twenty nineteen 199 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: I spent four years in Washington, I moved to Israel 200 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: ninety four. I spent four years in Washington during what 201 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 3: people in DC call Obama two, meaning twenty thirteen to 202 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and then I came back to Israel. And 203 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen I connected with my old friend Adam Bellow, 204 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: who had just come off of a thirty year stellar 205 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 3: career as a commercial book publisher, and he was starting 206 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: a new publishing house called Wicked Sun Books, which had 207 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 3: a sort of Jewish facing market. And then he said 208 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: to me, you know, anthologies are actually really important. And 209 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: I said, what do you mean important, Like do they sell? 210 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: And he said, well, well, yeah, you know. And I said, 211 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 3: but who goes into a bookstore and says, show me 212 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: your anthologies. He goes, no, no, no, no no. If 213 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: you pick the right niche then you can kind of 214 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: capture a moment. And then everybody has to have the 215 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 3: book on their bookshelves. And he said, what's your niche? 216 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: And I said, well, you know, I've been Orthodox and secular, 217 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 3: and I've been left and right politically, I've been Israelian American, 218 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: and I've been young and old. So how about like 219 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 3: the whole Jewish people? And he laughed and I laughed, 220 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 3: and we ended up producing how. 221 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: About we leave out the old people, just a young 222 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: Xiet voice. 223 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: So so we started thinking, how could you like do 224 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 3: like a Talmud for today, like capturing kind of the 225 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 3: entire people in a single volume, And we got to 226 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 3: work on something that ended up being called Jewish Priorities 227 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: sixty five Proposals for the Future of Our People, which 228 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 3: contains within it essays where the audience is us as 229 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: a as a collective, the totality of the Jewish people, 230 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: but each person is coming from a very different perspectivity 231 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: of ultra Warthodox to secular. And you have left and right, 232 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: and you have young influencers and veteran writers, and you know, 233 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 3: people from the entertainment industry, people from business, people from journalism, 234 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 3: literary just sort of and of course rabbis and scholars, 235 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: and it just came together as it's really kind of amazing, 236 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 3: beautiful collection that was scheduled to publish on October twenty third, 237 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, so long come yeah, so October seven. 238 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 3: So we had this whole huge launch planned out. It 239 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 3: was very festive. It was like imagine having the whole 240 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 3: Jewish people over for dinner. And then all of a sudden, 241 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: October seventh hits and every single one of the events 242 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 3: that we had planned reached out to us and said, 243 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 3: we want to do it anyway. We're going to pivot 244 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 3: on the vibe, on the marketing, but right now, in 245 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 3: the thick of this horrific trauma, the thing we need 246 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: is for the Jewish people to come together and for 247 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 3: anything you can kind of represent that. So I came 248 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 3: to America to We did a full day festival in 249 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 3: Philadelphia at the Whites Museum, We did a nine speaker 250 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 3: event of the Striker Center, New York, and we did 251 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 3: something at the Z three conference out in Palo Alto. 252 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 3: And it was my first exposure to how American Jews 253 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: were experiencing October seventh because it was different, meaning there 254 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: was obviously a lot of overlap. A lot of people 255 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 3: have a lot of connections back in Israel. But while 256 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: we were, you know, going through a really collective trauma 257 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: coupled with a collective mobilization and going off to war, 258 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: and really it was the most together moment that Israel 259 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 3: had experienced in my lifetime. But American Jews, we're going 260 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: through something very different. You know, you walk out, you 261 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 3: wake up in the morning, you walk out into the street, 262 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: and my personal world has collapsed. But everybody else life 263 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: is going on. How did the buses keep running? And 264 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 3: where people having fun in bars? And it's just it 265 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: became a much more private and it was much more 266 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 3: scary because of that. 267 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: So, I mean the riots and the protests and yeah, 268 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: insanity on the streets certainly didn't help that feeling. 269 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 3: Well, it created a sense of paralysis for a lot 270 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: of people, a sense of I mean when I say people, 271 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: I was in New York. I was talking to very 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 3: big philanthropists and they were saying to me, we don't 273 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: know what to do. And so some of the mobilization 274 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 3: did happen for Israel, right, but it was almost like 275 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: a deflection. It was like they didn't want to see 276 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: the crisis that was coming to America. For their perspective, 277 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: if they could do something, it would be to help Israel, 278 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 3: which is great. But so I wrote an essay right 279 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 3: afterwards called the War against the Jews that came out 280 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: on November seventh that basically said, the war's coming to America, 281 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 3: and resources and especially kind of thinking needs to be 282 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 3: switched into a kind of global diaspora war footing, and 283 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: here's what that would look like. This essay got a 284 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 3: lot of traction, especially in philanthropic circles. I got a 285 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: lot of people reached out to me, and at the 286 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 3: same time, we started to notice that there was another 287 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 3: kind of mobilization, there was another kind of pushback, and 288 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 3: it was happening almost entirely among young people. So you'd 289 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: see on campuses as diverse as like from Harvard to 290 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: UCLA to Tulane University, pen you'd see students fighting back, 291 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 3: Jewish students recognizing this as anti Semitism and not just 292 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: criticism of Israeli policy, and looking for ways to fight back. 293 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: And we decided at that moment that the next book 294 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: we would do would try to bring together some of 295 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: these voices into a single volume. It's called Young Zionist Voices. 296 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: It just came out in November, has thirty one essays. 297 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 3: All of them are written by people under the age 298 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: of thirty, a lot of them from campuses like Chabas Kestenbaum, 299 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 3: de La Kocha of people at Columbia University, people at 300 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 3: George Washington, Stanford University, Julie Steinberg, but also a lot 301 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 3: of young professionals, young rabbis. We have about ten who 302 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 3: live in Israel. Half of them are kind of Israeli Israelis, 303 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 3: including one Osbinon, who was a fighter in the ego's 304 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 3: Special Forces unit that my son also serves in and 305 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 3: fought during October seventh. And he's also kind of like 306 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 3: a philosopher, so he's writing about the meaning of Judaism 307 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 3: and community. But he's doing but it's through the eyes 308 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 3: of somebody who just came back from army duty where 309 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 3: he was like literally at the front lines. And it's 310 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 3: a really, really fascinating collection that really is kind of 311 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 3: the snapshot of a moment and where a whole group 312 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: of young Jews, who all of whom look for different 313 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 3: ways to fight back against the anty Semitism, and really 314 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: we did it in order to kind of plant a 315 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: flag in the sand and basically say listen to everybody. 316 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 3: These aren't just isolated students or young people who are 317 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 3: looking for ways to fight back. There's actually kind of 318 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: a movement here. And if we look into the thinking 319 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 3: of these young leaders, what we see is a very 320 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 3: new approach to Jewish pride, Jewish identity, Jewish connection to 321 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 3: the land of Israel. What they understand when they use 322 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 3: the word Zionism, it might be very different from what 323 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 3: people from my generation think. And also to send a 324 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 3: signal beyond to older people that hey, there is a 325 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: new generation of leaders coming up. And I firmly believe. Look, 326 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: I was in the Soviet Jury movement in the eighties. 327 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 3: I was living growing up in Boston. I was marching 328 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: in the streets for Sharansky and for Ida new Doll 329 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 3: and for all of these great heroes from the Refusing movement. 330 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: And we were marching. And later on the people who 331 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 3: led the movement in America became important, important leaders in 332 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: Jewish communal life. And if you think that, and if 333 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: that happened where Soviet jeury, for all its worth became 334 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: only it took a lot of years before the establishment 335 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: kind of embraced it as a cause. But these now, 336 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: the trauma that we're going through now and the stepping up, 337 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 3: the people who stepped up at this crucial moment, they're 338 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 3: going to become the future of American jeury. And it's 339 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 3: important to see who they are and to see what 340 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: they're thinking, looks like and to and you come away 341 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: with a very well, certainly a very powerful optimism about 342 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 3: the future of American and global jeury. But also you learn, 343 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: you're constantly learning. Okay, you know, these young people have 344 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 3: their own vocabulary and their own set of priorities, and 345 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 3: we should hear what they have to say. 346 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do the western kind of intellectuals misunderstand about Zionism? 347 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: What would you say that they're missing? 348 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 3: Well, this book, no, no, just say the word missing 349 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 3: is so generous. It's not like we missed that. You know. 350 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 3: The Zionism emerged in its current form in the you know, 351 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 3: towards the end of the nineteenth century. The re Zionist 352 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 3: thinkers and Zionist writers who looked at diasper Jewish life 353 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 3: at the time, they called it exile Jews in exile, 354 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: and said, okay, centuries and centuries of living in exile 355 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 3: have hurt us. Okay, they've hurt us spiritually and psychological, 356 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: they've hurt us politically. They've turned us into people who 357 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 3: are very dependent, who might be too afraid to to 358 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: you know, always afraid to fight back. It's what happens 359 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 3: when you are subjugated for generation after generation after generation. 360 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: And they looked for ways to rebuild the honor, the dignity, 361 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 3: the strength of Jews coming to is to what was 362 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 3: then called Palestine, coming to the Land of Israel and 363 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 3: building a state was only one piece of their answer. 364 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 3: But their answer began at the spiritual level, and it said, 365 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 3: you have to stand tall, you have to fight back, 366 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 3: you have to know who you are. And so the 367 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 3: political side of it, which which was led by Theodore Herzel, 368 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: who not only called on people to come to the 369 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 3: Land of Israel, but also created the core institutions for 370 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 3: what would become the Jewish state eventually, the Zions Congress 371 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: and the banks and the investment you know, vehicles and 372 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 3: the paramilitary side of the militias, and all of this 373 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 3: stuff was built in order to create a homeland where 374 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 3: the idea is that it's only through our own homeland, 375 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: in our own land, that Jews could really reclaim the 376 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 3: life of dignity and self respect that had been beaten 377 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 3: out of them for so many centuries. In diaspora. What 378 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: happened was that a counter movement emerged already in the 379 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, but really taking full force in the nineteen 380 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: sixties on the Arab side that basically was a complete rejectionist, 381 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 3: complete a nihilistic view that said, there can't be any 382 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: Jewish presence, any Jewish political presence in the Land of Israel. So, 383 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: and this was heavily, heavily backed in the nineteen sixties 384 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 3: by the Soviet Union. Okay, so, the Soviet Union embraces 385 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 3: Palestinianism a core cause in its effort to attack the 386 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 3: West as a whole. And that's where you see all 387 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 3: of these words like colonialism and apartheid and Zionism, is racism, 388 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 3: all of these. I have to give credit to the 389 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 3: scholar Isabella Taborowski, who's really done tremendous, tremendous work on 390 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: exposing the connections between what we see today and this 391 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 3: Soviet campaign launched especially after the Sixth Day War nineteen 392 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 3: sixty seven, when the Soviets were so humiliated by the 393 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: defeat of their client states were the Arabs, and so 394 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: the Soviets start injecting these lies into Western discourse through academia. Okay, 395 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: they start publishing books of pseudo scholarship and pamphlets and 396 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: translating them into English and French and Spanish and all 397 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: these languages, and flooding the campuses with these pamphlets, and 398 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 3: it becomes part of a broader kind of intellectual worldview 399 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: that basically says the West is the bad guy, okay, 400 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 3: and Israel is like this prime example of just how 401 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 3: bad the West is. And so if you wonder, like 402 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 3: where does all of this come from that we're seeing 403 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 3: on campuses these professors who are just like line, Yeah, 404 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 3: it's a direct line to the campaigns. I mean, you know, 405 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: these are one generation removed from the professors then and 406 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 3: and you know, the students of the seventies are like 407 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 3: the senior professors of the twenty twenties. So you know, 408 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: it's if you're asking what are they missing, the answer 409 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: is truth. They're there, and it's and it's pretty deliberate. 410 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 3: If you look at what Zionism is, what Zionism was, 411 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: what Zionists describe themselves, as you discover that it's all 412 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 3: about our own self rebuild it. To build and be 413 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: built is the classic Zionist expression. We come to the 414 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 3: land to build it and to be built by it, right, 415 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 3: And there is no you know, all of these slogans 416 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: colonialism and all that stuff. I mean, do you ever 417 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: notice how like anytime they want to attack us with 418 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 3: a word, they have to first redefine the word in 419 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 3: order to keep attacking us. So, like you say, no, 420 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: I've had these conversations where like apartheid is like South Africa, 421 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: I know, because like we were fighting against apartheid in 422 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 3: high school. I also was like there, you know, free 423 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 3: Nelson Mandela. And you ask them, but Israel doesn't look 424 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 3: like that at all, and they'll say no, but apartheid 425 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 3: has evolved moderny, it's legal definition. And I'm like, well, 426 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: why did you do that? It didn't just evolve. Okay, 427 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 3: you may just change it. And the same thing with 428 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: genocide and the same thing with colonialism, like how can 429 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 3: this be colonialism? The whole point was to overthrow the 430 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 3: powers that control. 431 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: Them indigenous the word indigenous. 432 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, we ended up like literally fighting you know, against 433 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: the British in order to have our state and they're like, no, no, 434 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: you're you're colonialists. I'm like, what are you talking? No, 435 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 3: but we read if you So they redefine everything. Now 436 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 3: this has two two big effects. The most obvious one 437 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: from a Jewish standpoint is that that they're just making 438 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 3: up all sorts of crazy stuff to attack us. That 439 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 3: what might be even worse is that any time that 440 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: word used to mean something important, it doesn't mean that anymore. 441 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 3: So you can't fight against genocide in the world anymore 442 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 3: because now it doesn't doesn't mean anything anymore. And you 443 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 3: can't fight against again against racism. And you know, all 444 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 3: of these things that they're redefining to attack us with 445 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: become completely defanged when it comes to the whole rest 446 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 3: of the world. And so the people who suffer most 447 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 3: are the Palestinians, and people who suffer most people are 448 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: victims the actual genocide in Africa. They're the ones who 449 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the West has lost its moral bearings. 450 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: And language to use to describe any of it. 451 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, because any time they have they had a word, 452 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: somebody came and hijacked and said, no, no, it's about 453 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 3: the Palestinian. 454 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 455 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 456 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: What do you worry about? 457 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: I worry about that everything's going to be going to 458 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 3: feel like things have calmed down and the world is 459 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 3: over and the anti Semites are on their back foot, 460 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 3: and that we're all going to kind of slide back 461 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: to old habits. I want to expand on this just 462 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 3: a little bit. I've recently started working with an organization 463 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 3: called the Z three Project. It's based in Palo Alto, 464 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 3: out of the pale Alta JCC and the Ousman Family 465 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 3: JCC of Pale Alto. It started out as a whole 466 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 3: series of conferences which I thought were really fascinating about Zionism, 467 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: and they approached me after Jewish priorities came out and said, 468 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 3: you know, we'd like you to help start a think tank, 469 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: which we'll call the Z three Institute. And the core 470 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 3: of it is that after October seventh, we have this 471 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 3: huge feeling that the rug has been pulled out from 472 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: under us. And on the one hand, it's a horrible 473 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 3: tragedy and a horrible trauma, but on the other hand, 474 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 3: it's also an opportunity because when everything's fine, you let 475 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 3: things go and you don't want to rock the boat, 476 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 3: and you don't want to change things. But the truth 477 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 3: of the matter is that diaspora institutions, and especially American 478 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: Jewish institutions, they dropped the ball. Oh yeah, okay, And 479 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 3: you know, whereas in Israel, everybody knows that it's institutions 480 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 3: and leaders in military that everybody dropped the ball, and 481 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: their endless calls for a national commission of inquiry, and 482 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 3: a lot of people have resigned in the military and 483 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: security services and intelligence. All of these leaders have either 484 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 3: resigned or announced they're going to be resigning. And in diaspora, 485 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 3: you know, despite the fact that for a hundred years 486 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 3: they have these institutions they call them defense organizations that 487 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 3: were built to watch out for any Semitism, to fight it, 488 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: to prevent it, the Holocaust education, hundreds and hundreds of 489 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 3: millions of dollars per year were spent on these things. 490 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 2: They were completely unprepared. 491 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 3: And they were completely unprepared. And the kids know it, okay, 492 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 3: the young people. They write about it in this book 493 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 3: in the youngxiety's voices, they're they're they're angry, right, and 494 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 3: they're frustrated about the failure of the institutions to prepare 495 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 3: prevent to their jobs. But have any has anybody resigned yet? 496 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: Of course not. Now they're doubling down on it. In 497 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: a lot of cases, I think that the institutions are 498 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: not improving. 499 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we identify right now an opportunity because the 500 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: institutions aren't budgeting. But if you talk to Jewish professionals, 501 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 3: so if you talk to ordinary Jewish participants in communities 502 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 3: and congregations, everybody feels like things have to change, like 503 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 3: something went deeply wrong in core understandings of our communal strategies, 504 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: our alliances, our education. Everything needs to be rethought. And 505 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: who's going to do that. So the purpose of the 506 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,479 Speaker 3: Z three Institute is to identify scholars, writers, people who 507 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 3: are actually coming in with fresh thinking and who can 508 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: build alternative frameworks for everything from Jewish education to communal strategy, 509 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 3: to Holocaust, to Zionism and Israel diaspora and all of 510 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 3: these big pieces philanthropy, all these big chunks where all 511 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 3: the underlying assumptions that have been built over real literally 512 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 3: centuries now need to be challenged and rethought with alternative 513 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 3: frameworks to kind of come in and perhaps become the 514 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 3: beginning of a very new path towards a much more educated, thriving, 515 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 3: proud Jewish community in the diaspora. I love that. 516 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 2: I hope it works because we need it. 517 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: What advice would you give your sixteen year old self, 518 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: you have to do this all over again? 519 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: What does he need to know? 520 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 3: Number One is that you're Jewish. What's the word they 521 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 3: use now? Journey? Your Jewish journey right as the kids say, 522 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 3: As the kids say, your self understanding is first of all, 523 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 3: your own responsibility. Okay, you can't blame anybody if you 524 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 3: don't know stuff. Okay, it's got to be a fire 525 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 3: that comes from within to go and learn, Go and study, 526 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 3: Go and deepen your own understanding. Read you know, read 527 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 3: the Bible, read the Talmud. Study. We have three thousand 528 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 3: years of history that you that's yours. You can go 529 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 3: and grab it. And when you do that, then you 530 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 3: become the arbiter. You become the master. You don't you know, 531 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 3: you'll you'll automatically have defenses against an endless sea of 532 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 3: crazy people trying to tell you that you're the bad gun. 533 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 3: That's number one above everything else. I had a student 534 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 3: just last week. I was in Austin, Texas for the 535 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,239 Speaker 3: Z three Austin conference, and Gil Troy and I were 536 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 3: doing this wonderful session with a group of Jewish professionals, 537 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: including some young people, and one of them asks me, look, 538 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: you know, I really want to know more about Israel, 539 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: but I keep getting sucked into this all this husbarra 540 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 3: stuff and it's all about cherry tomatoes and what to 541 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 3: say against other people and and and you know, I'm 542 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 3: not looking for what to say. I'm trying to learn. 543 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 3: And I said, look, you're one hundred percent right. Husburah 544 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: or the fight as we call it, is a machine, 545 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: and it's a desperately needed machine, right, because we are 546 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 3: in a battle. But that doesn't mean that you can't 547 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 3: limit that and bracket that out and learn, because at 548 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 3: the end of the day, learning is is kind of 549 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 3: the opposite of messaging, right, Messaging is I know the answers, 550 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: they are boom boom boom, boom boom, and and that's 551 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: how battles of communication really are conducted and have to 552 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 3: be conducted. And it's entirely legitimate that it exists. But 553 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 3: if you don't go and deepen your own knowledge, at 554 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 3: your own under your own energy and go to Israel 555 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: or learn Hebrew or or you know, engage with Israeli 556 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 3: culture and through your own drive. Then all you're going 557 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: to be left with is the easy stuff, the machine, 558 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 3: the sort of the places where people want you to go. 559 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 3: And so so we have to build a generation of 560 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: what they call it self starters. That's the work. I 561 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: love it. It's right, you know, self starting journeys. But 562 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 3: but there's something to that. You really need to build 563 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 3: a whole generation of people who are who drive themselves, 564 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 3: who push themselves, who want to deepen their own knowledge 565 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 3: and understanding. And there's so many paths to it. You know, 566 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: when when I was a kid, there was no internet, 567 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 3: right right, If you wanted to learn about Israel, you 568 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 3: need to read history books or go to the library, 569 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 3: or you know, maybe see a TV show that was 570 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 3: heavily biased in one direction or another, or watch you know, 571 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: an old movie, or go to Israel, which itself was this, 572 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 3: you know, was this huge investment and you'd have to like, 573 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 3: you know, communicate with your parents through aerograms. And today 574 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 3: you can learn anything you want, Like it's an amazing moment. 575 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: But that means that you but it doesn't chain take 576 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: away the responsibility and it's being on you to care 577 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: and to want to learn, and to drive yourself to 578 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 3: to uh to seek to go find it. And I 579 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 3: think that that there's a cultural there's a risk of 580 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 3: a cultural laziness in which we have everything so I 581 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 3: don't have to work to learn anything. And it's the 582 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 3: exact opposite of the truth. You're flooded with information, but 583 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 3: becoming a knowledgeable, deep person requires that you be the 584 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 3: one to arbitrary, to arbitrate what's important, what's not important, 585 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 3: what's reliable, what's not reliable? Who can I learn from? 586 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 3: You know? The the ancient rabbi has had this expression, 587 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 3: make for yourself a rabbi, like get yourself a rabbi. Yeah, okay, 588 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 3: which is which is really fascinating. We think about it 589 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 3: because you think of religion as it's kind of top down. 590 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 3: You know, your rabbi is kind of a given right. 591 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 3: You're the clergy, like, tell you and that's what God wants. 592 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 3: And the rabbis were like, no, it's the exact opposite. 593 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 3: It's got to come from inside. You've got to go 594 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 3: out and find the right teacher for you, and you've 595 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 3: got to go in and study. And it's it's all 596 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 3: on you the individual, and I you know, really really 597 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 3: want would love to see that part of Judaism be 598 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 3: imbued into young people because it's the core of everything, 599 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 3: because once you get that engine going, then that everything 600 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 3: else follows from. 601 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: I love that. 602 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 3: Well. 603 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: The last question I ask all of my guests, and 604 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: I would love to hear what you have to say 605 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: is a tip that you would offer my listeners for 606 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: better living, how. 607 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 2: To have a better life. 608 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 3: We Jews have inherited a really strange combination of like 609 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 3: an intellectual thing combined with a spiritual thing. Okay, and 610 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 3: when we we call it that, that combination we call 611 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 3: it love. But for us, love means something else that 612 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 3: it means for a lot of other people. There's no 613 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 3: contradiction between research, study, argumentation, getting to the truth on 614 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 3: the one hand, and the spiritual impulse to embrace those 615 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 3: our families and our communities and our people that that 616 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 3: need to extend ourselves and you know, and take care 617 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 3: of our world. These don't contradict. They're actually the same thing, 618 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 3: because you can't really take care of people unless you 619 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 3: know what they're going through. What are the methodologies, what 620 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 3: are the technical aspects of what you know what does 621 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 3: take care of people. We have all these you know, 622 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 3: political arguments about no, we should you know this or that, 623 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 3: and it's all like do outcomes matter? Well, yeah, outcomes 624 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 3: are the only thing that matters, right so so, but 625 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 3: to no outcomes means you have to understand how things work. 626 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 3: And you can't really take care of your child unless 627 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 3: you know what children need and consult with doctors and 628 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 3: love your child and give them all the core self 629 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 3: confidence in the world. And it's the same thing with 630 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 3: uh with so my tip for a better life is 631 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 3: be loving, be inquisitive, be critical, be aggressive, be all 632 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 3: of these things all together, because that's the Jewish one. 633 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: I love that he is David Hazoni. 634 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: Check out his latest anthology, Young Zionist Voices and New 635 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: Generation Speaks Out. 636 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on, David. 637 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,240 Speaker 3: Thank you, Carol, thanks. 638 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: So much for joining us on the Carol Marco wid Show. 639 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 2: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.