WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: So Special 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.479 Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:13.480 the Bengals Booth podcast. The I'm Special So Special addition, 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.919 as I discussed the NFL's new kickoff rules and a 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.960 few other important topics with Bengals Special Teams Coordinator Darren Simmons. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.000 The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Core, 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.920 Proud to be the Bengals official hr software provider, by 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.680 Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.200 business and community to a new level, and by Kettering 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.960 Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.720 is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.240 a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.479 of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.720 computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:58.800 greatest thing since the Larry Bird statue in Tara Hate, Indiana. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.360 I was in tear this week to broadcast Cincinnati's game 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.640 versus Indiana State in the NIT and while I was 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.600 not surprised to see a Larry Bird statue outside of 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.000 the arena at his alma mater, I was stunned by 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.920 how tall it is. It's slightly more than seventeen feet 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.120 tall from the sidewalk to the top of the basketball 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.840 raised over his head. Now here's the fun part of 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.040 the story. There's a statue of Magic Johnson at Michigan 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.720 State that's twelve feet tall. The Larry Bird statue was 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:35.360 specifically designed to be taller than Magic's. Johnson won more 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.520 NBA titles five to three, and when they went head 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.479 to head in the finals, the Lakers won two out 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:46.039 of three. But when it comes to statue height, Larry 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:52.640 Legend reigned supreme. Now let's get to football. In twenty eleven, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.760 in an attempt to cut down on the number of 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.400 injuries that occurred on kickoffs, the NFL moved the spot 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.720 of the kickoff from the thirty yard yard line to 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.640 the thirty five. That led to fewer returns. Unfortunately, as 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.720 kicker's legs became stronger, the kick return became a rarity. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.000 Last year, only twenty two percent of kickoffs were returned, 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.600 and in the Super Bowl all thirteen kickoffs were touchbacks. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.359 As a result, the NFL dramatically changed the kickoff rule 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.720 this week, adopting rules that were pioneered in the XFL. 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.480 Here are some of the key changes. The ball is 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.960 still kicked from the thirty five, but if you kick 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:35.840 it into the end zone or out of the end 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.520 zone for a touchback, the ball goes out to the 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.240 thirty yard line instead of the twenty five. That's meant 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.560 to discourage teams from kicking it into the end zone. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.639 If you kick the ball short of the twenty yard 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.160 line in the air or kick it out of bounds, 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.920 the return team gets the ball at the forty yard line. 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.440 The so called landing zone is between the twenty yard 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.639 line and the goal line. Any kick in that zone 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.640 must be returned. Additionally, if a kick hits the ground 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.440 in the landing zone and then bounces or rolls into 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.440 the end zone, it can either be returned or downed, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.920 but if it's downed, the returning team only gets the 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:20.080 ball at the twenty. That's meant to encourage returns. In 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.040 order to make the kickoff safer, the coverage team lines 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.639 up at the other team's forty yard line, twenty five 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.880 yards ahead of the ball. Nine members of the return 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.120 team are lined up between five and ten yards away. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.280 They're in close proximity in order to cut down on 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.520 dangerous high speed collisions, and those players can't move until 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.280 the ball hits the ground or one of the two 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:48.000 returners who have to line up in the landing zone. Finally, 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.680 since nobody lines up close to the kicker on side, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.520 kicks must be declared in advance and can only be 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.480 attempted in the fourth quarter or over time. For those 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.160 of us who having watched the XFL, it can all 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.560 be pretty confusing. That's why I sat down this week 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.240 for an in depth conversation with Bengals special team scoordinator 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.800 Darren Simmons, who was heading into his twenty second season 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:18.920 in Cincinnati. Darren, last year, nearly eighty percent of NFL 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.239 kickoffs were not returned. Did you agree with the notion 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.200 that a change was needed? 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.120 Oh, I think it was absolutely necessary. I knew midway 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.360 through the season that we can't keep doing what we're 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.599 doing here and keep this play a relevant part of 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.400 the game which couldn't affect the game. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:36.600 You know, normally. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.960 In a regular game, there are probably twenty five to 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.400 thirty special teams plays total, and I review each of 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.440 those with our team after the game. And yet you know, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.360 I start canceling out. I started deleting all the plays 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.479 that are touchbacks, there's really nothing to coach off of 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.719 the next thing, you know, there's twelve or thirteen relevant 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.280 plays in a special teams game. So I knew we 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.159 had to do something different than we just couldn't keep operating. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:05.880 We were operating. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.680 The NFL makes rules changes every year, but most of 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.000 them are slight tweaks. This is a radical change. You've 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.359 been coaching at one level or another for thirty years, basically, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.120 has there been anything remotely comparable? 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.280 No, I don't think so. You know, we made some 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.640 pretty cool radical changes in twenty eighteen. We eliminated the wedge. 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.680 We eliminated certain types of double team blocks and trap blocks, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.480 and I thought that was pretty radical back in twenty eighteen. 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:35.920 But this is going to be wholesale. 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:36.520 You know. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.479 Ever since the rule passed, I've been hesitant to do 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.760 a lot of extra work on this prior to it passing, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.640 just because I didn't know exactly which way it was 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.440 going to go. But now that since the rules passed, 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.400 I've been trying to get our playbook back in order, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.080 and this is the most change that I've had to 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.560 make to the playbook since I first started, you know, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.680 way bay way back. So there is it's a substantial change. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.560 There's gonna be a lot that goes into it. 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.279 So the new NFL rule is a modified version of 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.520 what they've done in the XFL for the last couple 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.000 of years. Did you watch XFL games before there was 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.760 any discussion of this coming to the NFL, just out 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:17.720 of your curiosity? 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.400 Yeah, I actually did it a year ago. You know. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.960 I was a part of a group of coaches that 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.520 that the NFL brought up to the NFL films in Philadelphia, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.320 and we discussed changes a year ago, and so I 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.440 knew this was the XFL model was on the back 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.680 burner a little bit, and we couldn't really come to 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.240 a great consensus a year ago. You know, when when 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.120 the health and safety people brought up the XFL kick 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.880 off to us as coaches, everybody kind of, you know, 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.000 didn't really know what to think because I'd never really 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.640 seen the play. Thought I was kind of a gimmicky 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.000 looking thing until you actually put the tape on, and uh, 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.200 you know, if you pause an NFL kickoff play when 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.080 the returner catches it versus what the XFL model looked like, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.440 then it wasn't all that dissimilar that they were actually 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.880 actually relatively close to being the same, not exactly by 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.920 a stretch of the imagination when you have players of 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.200 different speed levels from the NFL model, but you know, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.560 there was a lot to go off of. I've looked 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.680 at every XFL kickoff, every play for the for the 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.040 past couple of years, you know, and it's it's really 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.520 about educating myself. What are the different schemes, what are 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.400 the what are the different techniques that that they tried 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.360 to employ, How would it how would it look for us? 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.400 What are the things that we need to do differently 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.480 for our league relative to what the XFL did. And 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.080 we think we come up with a plan that h 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.920 or a model for us, the NFL hybrid model that 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.400 you know, tries to satisfy as many of the deficiencies 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.080 that we saw in the XFL play and make it 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:58.679 a relevant, exciting play for us. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.080 Were there other I ideas that were close to being adopted? 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.680 Was it a close call that ultimately all right, this 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:06.440 is the one we'll go with. 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.000 No, Because we had the same issue a year ago. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.880 You know, the health and safety people have come to us, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:13.920 you know, I feel like the Special Teams. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:14.480 Group gets attacked. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.920 It's every single year, like we're trying to, you know, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.400 fend off the lions, the health and safety people that 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.320 are always coming to attack us for you know that. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:26.960 You know, and I do get it from a player 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.840 safety standpoint. We are trying to keep the players as 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.040 safe as we possibly can, right So I get. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:32.280 That part of it. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:33.880 And they have a job to do and we had 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:35.480 at the same time, I have the job to do too. 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.280 We're still trying to make this play exciting. And you know, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.400 there was a lot of issues that we discussed a 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.800 year ago. We actually discussed you know, the USFL. There 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.560 were two leagues, the USFL and the XFL. The XFL 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:54.040 used a model that we used. The USFL actually used 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.120 our model, but they backed up and kicked off from 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.080 the twenty yard line, and they were trying to create 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.440 more speed and more space and give blockers or give 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.400 cover players the opportunity to more room to beat blockers. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:11.079 And uh, that's actually, oddly enough, what the UFL has adopted. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.559 They adopted the us USFL model, But I think there's 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.720 a reason why for that. The commissioner of the us 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.360 FL was Darryl Johnston. When those two leagues merged and 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.640 combined in the UFL, Darryl Johnson is still the commissioners. 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.880 They just adopted his rule from the USFL. So people 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.600 are going to make a big deal about that. Why, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.840 you know, we took a model that they're not going 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.600 to use in this other league, and and you know, 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:39.880 I just don't think our health and safety people could 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.000 ever wrap their head around us back in the kickoff 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.880 up and creating more speed, more space, and more collisions. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.679 And you know, I tend to agree with that. So 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.760 that that that was the reason we kind of stuck 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.880 with this XFL model. We thought we could make tweaks 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.440 to it that would make it better for us. There 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.400 were a lot of holes in what they did. You know, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.280 I give them credit. They did a lot of work 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.160 on trying to get it off the ground, and they 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.719 did and hopefully, I think we're going to have the 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.840 ability of the same things. If there are things that 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.280 we don't like or are not working exactly like I 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:15.840 wanted to, I think we're gonna have the ability to 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.400 make small tweaks and adjustments. You know, maybe after the 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.320 end of the preseason. If we go through the preseason 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:22.960 and see things. Oh man, I wish we would have 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:24.840 done this. I think we're going to give us the 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.920 opportunity and maybe make some amendments if we need to, 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:28.800 to try to make it better. 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.960 Do you see college and high school football going to 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.800 a rule like this or something like it in the 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:34.440 years to come? 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.120 Well, I think it all depend on what it looks 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.120 like in our game. It seems to be a bit 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.640 of a theme. You know, we tried to adopt what 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.040 college football used and implement the fair catch last year 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.720 and it really didn't have the desired effect. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.439 You know, it really would have. Did it increased touchbacks? 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:51.839 We didn't. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.160 You know, there was nineteen hundred and seventy I think 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.599 touchbacks last year and ninety fair catches, so you know, 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.080 we're talking about a little over two thousand plays. It 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:09.719 really didn't matter, and we believe that the return percentage 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.199 the league has told us the analytics people at the 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.040 league office told us they believe the return for scenes 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.679 will be somewhere upround eighty to eighty five percent, So 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.559 you know, hopefully it will be about sixteen hundred more 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.480 plays league wide, so little interesting to see. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.240 So instead of twenty percent being returned you're hoping more 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.599 like eighty percent, all right, So I picked out a 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.760 few specific things that I want to ask you about. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.679 If you have a traditional touchback, now the ball goes 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.840 out to the thirty instead of the twenty five, is 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.840 five yards enough to discourage most teams from just blasting 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:41.720 it out of the end zone. 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.480 Well, that wasn't the initial proposal. The initial proposal was 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:45.280 taken out. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.120 To the thirty five, which would really, I think, help 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.640 discourage that. But I think there was a couple of 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.240 coaches on the competition committee that felt like that the 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.679 thirty five yard line was too big of a penalty 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.840 to the kicking team. Say it, you're at the end 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.520 of a game and you kick a field goal with 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.080 thirty seconds le after score a touchdown to take the lead, like, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:08.480 you want to have the ability to kick ball in 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:09.560 the back of the end zone and take it out 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.440 of the returner's hands. And so I think they came 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.600 to consensus that they would move it back to the thirty. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.640 So I think that'll be a bit of a feeling 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.439 out process if you look at the you know, the 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.600 league ultimately scoring has been slightly down the last couple 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.480 of seasons and I think in an effort to help 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.280 improve that, they'd like to see the kickoff return drive 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.440 start move up the field a little bit. It's been 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.079 around the twenty five yard line about the same spot 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.200 the touchbackspin for the last couple of years, so I 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.559 think this is an effort also to move the drive 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.920 start back up the field, give the offense a little 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.720 bit of a shorter field to work on. So again, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:48.520 to answer your question, I think it's going to be 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.719 it's going to be a fluid situation to see how 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.760 teams try to manage that part of it. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.800 Since you watched every XFL kickoff, did most of the 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.520 kickers try to kick it high and close to the 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.760 sideline inside the ten? Or do they kick line drives 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:05.680 that are hot to handle? 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.160 Well, it's unique. So the XFL actually kicked off from 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.439 the thirty yard line. They were five yards further back 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.840 than what we were. But the difference is the XFL 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:16.640 was a spring league, so they never had to deal 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.679 with weather. And I think for us, you know that 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:24.040 there was a part of a thought that why wouldn't 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.760 we kick off from the thirty yard kickers or better 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.959 than theirs are, But you know, how do you explain 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.760 that to teams like Buffalo and New England that are 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.640 playing in the New York's or in those East Coast 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.200 teams like that that are northern teams, that you know 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.440 what happens when the weather gets to be really cold 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.679 and it's really windy in January and December. You know 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.880 that sometimes it's going to be difficult just to get 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.480 the ball past the twenty. So I think that there's 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.240 going to be a lot of thought that goes into 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.520 how you kick it. You know, Evan'll have no problem 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.280 getting the ball down the field, you know. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:01.280 I think the. 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.360 If you think about it, though, hangtime now really on 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:07.920 a kickoff doesn't matter anymore. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:09.720 That that's the part. 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.520 That I'm a little concerned about as we've we've kind 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.840 of taken I think now what we're getting is a 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.280 lot of they're gonna get a lot of field goal 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.360 kicks on kickoffs because again, players can start on the 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.720 touch or the catch, so hangtime doesn't matter. I think 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.280 depth and accuracy is what's going to matter now, So 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.440 you know, latterly horizontally on the field, where you put 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.560 it and in depth is going to be a huge determinant. 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.400 But in the XFL, I would tell you that a 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.320 lot of the kicks that the teams were probably the 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.520 best in coverage were the kicks that were widest and deepest. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.400 There are a lot of kicks that these kickers are 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.560 hit up to the ten or twelve yard line. That 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.400 I mean, these returners are running, you know, the other way. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.840 They're on top of the cover team before the cover 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.479 team go and hit them. In some cases, So the XFL, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.000 the kicking team lined up at the thirty five, the 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.800 return team lined up with the we're going to move 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.080 back five yards. We're gonna be the kicking team is 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.880 going to be at the forty to forty yard line. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.800 Seven players have to line up on the thirty five 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.360 For US, two players can be within the next five 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:12.840 yards from a thirty five to the thirty. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.840 So we're gonna be up the field a little bit 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:16.720 more to give the cover players a. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.680 Better opportunity to get off blocks and still get off 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:20.360 and make a tackle. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.600 I read one analyst who studied the XFL tape and 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.760 said that the return is less about straight line speed 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.400 and more about running back qualities like vision and shiftiness. 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:32.120 Do you agree? 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:33.840 I do agree? Yeah, I do agree. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.560 I do think though there are some there's some plays 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.960 on there that where you can see the speed where 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.880 the speed of the returner matters. I do certainly agree, though, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:48.480 because we're talking about a more confined area, confined box 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.320 now that some of these players are being returned in. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.880 I do think that cutting ability of the returners and 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.960 lateral movement like what you norm to see in Palmer 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.200 turners is a bigger part of it, or it becomes 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.600 a more integral in the past. What you look for 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.920 in some qualities you look for in a kickoff returner. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.760 You want big, physical, tough, straight line fastest guys you 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.600 can find. You know, That's why Brandon Wilson was an 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.480 effective player for US. Brandon Wilson was a running back 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.720 in college at Houston who was big and tough and 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.160 physical and had great speed. And now I think you've 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.120 got to have guys that you'd like to still have 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.160 those same qualities, but the added dynamic is they got 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:29.240 to be able to cut, They got to be able 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.800 to jump around a cover player, jump around even a 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.120 blocker for that matter, because the space is going to 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:35.880 be less than what there used to be. 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.600 Your kick returners from last year are still on the 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.200 roster for now, tray Von Williams, Chase Brown, Chris Evans, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.680 Charlie Jones, who did it in college. How do you 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.800 feel about that group and do you feel like you 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.320 need to add a kickoff return guy. 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.440 Well, I think you saw uniquely enough. I think you 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.280 saw what Pittsburgh did yesterday. Pittsburgh signed Quaduroll Patterson, and 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.400 you know, I think if he still has gas left 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.840 in the tank, I haven't studied him in a bit, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.560 but if he does get he's the prototypical guy that 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.840 you're looking for. He's a big, physical guy that hopefully 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.040 you get to him before he can get really going 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.520 because he's a tough guy to bring down. Because now 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.920 the difference is I think, you know, we're going to 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.720 have the jousting of the cover players or the sumo 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.240 wrestling match of the cover players trying to get off blocks, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.480 mean while the return players were holding them, and you 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.480 got a big two hundred and twenty five pound guy 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.479 that runs in the low four fours trying to run 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.000 past him or throw them. So I do think that 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.280 there's going to be more value placed on that position 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:37.960 what's been in the past. I mean, I think I 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:42.080 think We had seventeen kickoff returns total last season, and 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.480 so that's got to become a big part of, you know, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.000 helping us swim field position. I like the shiftiness that 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.520 obviously that Charlie has, you know, from his pump return background. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.679 I'd like you know, I told I told Charlie right 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.720 after he texted me right after the real pass, hees, 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:58.360 what do you think of the rule? 0:17:58.359 --> 0:17:59.760 And I said, well, you better be in the weight room. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.120 You're gonna get hit and you've got to be able 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.600 to to be able to physically enough to withstand those hits. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:06.919 And so I think it'll be unique to see what 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.760 he how he comes back. He's ready for that, and 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.280 it'll be unique to see with Chase Brown, you know, 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.080 he's kind of the type of guy you're looking for, 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.199 a guy that does have really, really good speed and 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.200 hopefully he's got enough. I think he does have enough 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.680 cutting ability and uh uh. He certainly has the toughness 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.359 to do that stuff. And of course we have experienced 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.239 guys in Travon and Chris who can do it as 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.320 well too, so but you're gonna need You're gonna need 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.119 multiple guys. You know, in the past we've lived with 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.280 just one, just one guy back deep. Now you're gonna 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.919 have to have two and uh, you have to have 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.560 two legitimate guys back there. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.520 Well with Darren in a moment. But first, a quick 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.119 reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.320 by pay Corps, Proud to be the Bengals official HR 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.200 software provider, by Alta Fiber future Proof Fiber Internet designed 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.119 to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.479 and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.480 Scattering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.560 You mentioned only seventeen returns last year, you only had 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.760 to cover thirteen returns in your first year as the 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.760 Bengals Special teams coordinator, the Bengals returned seventy four kickoffs 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.399 and defended more than seventy. How does this change time 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.480 on task? Are you going to have to spend much 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.119 more time at practice working on kick return kick coverage? 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.159 Well, I don't. I don't think that a lot of 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:27.960 that will change for us. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.320 We really didn't change the way we practiced because it's 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:31.920 it's difficult for me to control. 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.960 You know, when you go into a Sunday, Like the 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.640 past couple. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.080 Of seasons, it's difficult for me to control what's the 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.720 weather going to be, what is the situation dictating the game. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.600 So we still practiced because I think a lot of 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.920 there's a lot of carryover from even the techniques that 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.480 you teach on kickoff coverage to the how they equate 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.320 the punt coverage. It's still running in a field lane, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.679 it's still playing with specific leverage, and it's it's playing 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.119 good team defense and team coverage there to know what 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:59.520 the guy at the left and what the guy to 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.960