1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Variety Strictly Business podcast, where 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: we talk with the brightest minds working in the media 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: world today. I'm Variety co editor in chief Andrew Wallenstein. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: The peak TV era is in full swing here in Hollywood, 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: flooding the industry with hundreds more scripted series than there 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: were just a few short years ago. Can you imagine 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: how that's changed the deals that put those shows on screen. 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: My next guest knows, and he's written a new book 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: about it. Ken Basin is the author of the Business 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: of Television, and it's a business he knows very well, 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: having worked at Sony Pictures, Amazon Studios, and now Paramount Television, 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: where he's currently Senior VP of Business Affairs. Welcome Ken, Welcome, 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, Andrew. Let's get right into why you wanted 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: to write this book, what you were looking to do. 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: I set out to write the book that I wish 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: had existed when I was just getting started in the 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: television business. I think, like a lot of people who 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: go into the field, one of my first actions was 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: to go on Amazon and try to buy every business 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: book I could and to educate myself as much as 21 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: I could, both about kind of the individual deals that 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: I was gonna be working with and what I should 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: expect to be the important issues, but also kind of 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: on a macro level, what is the structure of this industry? 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Who are the players and how do they interact? And 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: I found that I wasn't really satisfied with the resources 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: that were available to me on all of that. There 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: were a lot of form contracts out there. Um, you know, 29 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: there were some historically oriented books that might talk about 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: the development of television and the sec going back to 31 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, but nothing that felt really contemporary and relevant, 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: and nothing that I felt really prepared me to be 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: an executive in this industry. Um, coming as I did 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: from the background of a law firm attorney. Uh So 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: I decided to go out and write the book that 36 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: I wish I could have read. Sounds smart, But is 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: that the fact that you weren't able to get that 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: material out there? Wasn't that also not so much a 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: reflection of just these books not being contemporary. But my 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: guess is the industry from the time you first came 41 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: into it and now has changed dramatically in terms of 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: the kind of work you do. But no question, I 43 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: mean there's I would give it a couple of factors. One, 44 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: I think most of the people writing books had different 45 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: motivations than I did. I think a lot of the 46 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: books that were written out there are written by private 47 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: practicing attorneys who wanted to show off enough expertise to 48 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: prove that they are, you know, a knowledgeable force, and 49 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: that you should hire them as your attorney, but not 50 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: so much that you can go ahead and do the 51 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: job without them. And I don't have to generate clients, 52 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: so I don't have to parse my insights in the 53 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: same way. But you're absolutely right. I mean, I read 54 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: a book by Howard Bloomenthal called This Business of Television 55 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: that was, you know, a pretty deep, detailed book that 56 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: took us through about two thousand three, and I'm not 57 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: sure if there's been a more recent edition since then, 58 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: but it's inside on things like Amazon and Netflix, companies 59 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: that didn't exist when the last edition came out. Was 60 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: limited to saying the Internet it's an important thing and 61 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to figure it out, and there's gonna 62 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: be a lot of opportunity there. Uh So, you know, 63 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything out there, at least before 64 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: my book that really deals with that streaming universe and 65 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: how it compares to traditional television, broadcasting, cable. Uh you 66 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: know what's different about it because it has to be 67 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: because of the models of those companies. What's different about 68 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: it because of the moment we're in sort of historically 69 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: as an industry. Uh So, certainly, the you know, problem 70 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: with writing a book about our business is that it's 71 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: likely to be halfway obsolete by the time it hits 72 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: the bookshelves. Um. And so I was in a process 73 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: with my publisher editing, trying to add material to the 74 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: draft while I was in the proofing phase, them telling 75 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: me you cannot keep adding stuff. This is just a 76 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: check for typos and formatting. Oh but you know, there's 77 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: been an advancement in the Fox Disney Murger negotiations. I 78 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: just need to put in one more line about that 79 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: ended up being a negotiation about how much I could 80 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: add without totally knocking off all the pagination of the book. Yeah, 81 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: because that is the nature of this industry. The rate 82 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: of change right now is incredible, and as I've talked 83 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: about in the introduction, just the sheer volume of content 84 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: out there. Talk about how that has affected dealmaking in 85 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: this town. Well, first of all, everything is driven by 86 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: this wild sense of competition. There's a sense that you've 87 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 1: got to keep up or get left behind. And everybody 88 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: knows that we are in this very exciting, frothy moment 89 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: in television. But I think there is widespread anxiety about 90 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: just how long is it gonna last? You know, are 91 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: we in a bubble? Is it gonna burst? Is so when? 92 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: And how much money can I make until it does? 93 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: And so? Uh, you know this shows up in a 94 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: couple of ways. There's uh, you know, certainly an arms 95 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: race to get access to the best talent. Uh you know, 96 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: you need to take extraordinary steps to make your shows 97 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: be noticed. I mean, it's all well and good that 98 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: there's tons of shows on television, and certainly that means 99 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: lots of people at work and lots of you know, 100 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: studio getting business. But it's getting harder and harder for 101 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: people to find shows. And you know, the way that 102 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: I think about it is there's not any more hours 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: in a day than there used to be. And the 104 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: rate at which original series as a group are growing, 105 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: it's far greater than the rate of population growth in 106 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: this country. So, uh, one of the ways that shows 107 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: up in the deals is you've got to find elements 108 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: that are going to make your show get noticed. You've 109 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: got to find those big actors. You've got to lure 110 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: those theatrical directors and theatrical writers into this medium which 111 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: is becoming more and more interesting and exciting for them. 112 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: You've got to find some fantastic piece of underlying intellectual 113 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: property that carries with it an audience in a brand 114 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: and a sense of name recognition. Because there's a lot 115 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: of great shows out there, um, and it's it's one 116 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: thing to have a great show, it's another one to 117 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: have some great show that anybody's watching and cares about. 118 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: And yet we're in this era where every entity out there, 119 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: studio network, has you know, foot to the pedal pushing 120 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: down hard tons of content out there. How is this 121 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: sustainable from your perspective, um, not even just from the 122 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: sense of consumer appetite, but for the companies out there 123 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: to continue at this pace when there's so much uncertainty 124 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: as to whether all this content is even gonna get watched. Well, 125 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't know that if we're talking in a ten 126 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: or a twenty year time scale, that it is sustainable. 127 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, we are going to find 128 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: a ceiling. John lang Graph has been predicting the end 129 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: of you know, peak TV. We talk about peak TV 130 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: as an era right as this moment of time that 131 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: we're in that is characterized by so many shows and 132 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: these big deals. But that's not the way the phrase 133 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: was even originally used. The phrase was used to sort 134 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: of identify a moment where we were going to reach 135 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: maximum saturation and then we were gonna start sliding down 136 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: the hill on the other side. We haven't gotten to 137 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: that place yet. I think a big reason for that 138 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: is the infusion of cash into the television industry, in 139 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: particular in the entertainment industry, generally by large technology companies, 140 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: and for those of us who work in Hollywood, I 141 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: think it's very easy to almost get carried away thinking 142 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: about the scope and the importance of what we're doing, 143 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: and certainly what we're doing has outside cultural impact domestically 144 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: and internationally. Um. You know, I'm more popular at cocktail 145 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: parties with my stories than my friends from law school 146 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: who are selling widgets for a living or doing real 147 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: estate deals. But in terms of just raw financial firepower 148 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: and raw financial impact, these tech companies are way bigger 149 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: than the Hollywood media companies. When we talk about Netflix 150 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: and Amazon and Facebook, they're dealing with war chests that 151 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: just dwarf anything that was traditionally available in the space. 152 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: So one of the reasons why this moment has lasted 153 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: as long as it has and sort of this this 154 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: uh you know mass has expanded as widely as it 155 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: has is because there's unprecedented capital available coming from companies 156 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: for whom this type of spending is a is a 157 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: rounding error on their balance sheet. As long as more 158 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: and more technology companies want to view themselves as media companies, 159 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: I think there's going to be space for this on 160 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: way to continue. If the technology companies and they're big, 161 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: big piles of cash, start deciding maybe we don't really 162 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: understand the space, or maybe this this kind of business 163 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: doesn't really enhance the core value of what we're doing. 164 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: That's when I think we're gonna go back to the 165 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: original meeting of peak TV meeting and actual a pax 166 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: and it slide back down the other side. So you've 167 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: got these streaming companies that are propelling the peak TV phenomenon. 168 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 1: In this week's this latest issue of variety. You talked 169 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: about how the other uh parts of the industry be broadcasters, cable, 170 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: independent studios, what they're going to do in this era, 171 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: what they should do to cope. Uh So, let's start 172 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: with the broadcasters. Yea. So the broadcasters, I think um 173 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: are best serves by focusing on their core audience and 174 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: what their core audience responds to, and also by going 175 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: where their competitors are not. So the entire industry has 176 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: kind of been following the model the streamers, who really 177 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: have just been kind of advancing what's been going on 178 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: in premium cable of big premium shows, expensive high production values, 179 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: serialized big stars, big elements, short order patterns, things that 180 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: are basically eight hour and ten hour movies with the 181 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: production value to match. And again, when it comes to 182 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: access to capital, that amount of money to spend is 183 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, potentially out of reach for broadcasters. But the 184 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: kind of content that hasn't necessarily worked for those super 185 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: well funded companies is the kind of content that has 186 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: always worked well for broadcasts, which is procedural dramas, multi 187 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: camera comedies, unscripted shows. All these shows have a few 188 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: key things in common. They're relatively inexpensive to produce the 189 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: relatively easy to produce in high volume, and they do. 190 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: They allow the broadcasters to compete on an area of 191 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: the battlefield that they're better funded. Competitors are just frankly 192 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: not that interested in playing in although don't you think 193 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: that maybe just a matter of time before they you 194 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: play there too? That Netflix as a c s I 195 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: of their own potentially, But I also think that the 196 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: motivations are a little bit different, and it kind of 197 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: goes to the essential differences in the business model. You know. 198 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: One of the things that used to hear uh, senior 199 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: executives of Amazon Studio say very frequently was we don't 200 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: want to make ten people's you know, tent favorite show. 201 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: We'd rather make three people's favorite show. Uh. And they 202 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: were about a sort of inspiring passion. And there's a 203 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: very simple reason for that beyond you know, the creative 204 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: executives desire to make the coolest, most exciting content. There 205 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: are subscription driven. You've got to induce the customer customer 206 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: to make a decision that it is worth month or 207 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: twelve a month or whatever recurring payment to them to 208 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: get access to this content. And the way that you 209 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: probably most effectively do that is by giving them something huge, exciting, 210 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: and something that they can't see anywhere else, which is 211 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: another reason why the streaming companies placed a really high 212 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: value on exclusivity when they're making deals with provider studios. 213 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: It's not necessary in the same way for an ABC 214 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: or an NBC to be making everybody's favorite show. It's 215 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: enough to make a show that just keeps them tuned in, 216 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: that makes them stop on the channel while they're flipping channels, 217 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: as opposed to having to go proactively seek it out. 218 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: You know, they're not selling subscriptions. They're selling eyeballs of 219 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: the viewers to their advertisers, and then they're kind of 220 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: selling the overall mass and value of that in the 221 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: form of retransmission fees to cable and satellite providers. So 222 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: when you've got a strategy that is based on justifying 223 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: subscription decisions, I don't know that multi camera comedies and 224 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: procedural dramas and unscripted shows are going to make you 225 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: or me or any other person make that decision to 226 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: shell out ten dollars a month for your subscription. And 227 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: to the extent that the streaming companies have played around 228 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: in that space, it's been pretty tentative and frankly kind 229 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: of unsuccessful up to date, not a lot of procedural 230 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: activity going on, not for lack of trying others. The 231 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: Cathy Bates know pop Shop comedy, the Chuck Laury created 232 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: for Netflix, it went one and done, you know, at 233 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: a point where Netflix was almost never having shows go 234 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: one and done. That's becoming more common now, but that 235 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: was kind of a almost shocking result. And you know, 236 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: Netflix isn't afraid to pay, and Netflix isn't afraid to 237 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: keep shows going, but clearly that wasn't resonating with their 238 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: audience because I don't think that's what you subscribe for. Cable, 239 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I would imagine frankly is more screwed. 240 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: I mean, Netflix and Amazon seemed to be doing the 241 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: very things cable is known so well for doing. Absolutely 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: Cable has a much harder sort of path to chart 243 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: on all of this, because, as I said, the streamers 244 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: are just kind of taking to the nth degree what 245 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: had started in the word world of basic cable and 246 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: going back to the early two thousand's one shows like 247 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: The Shield and niptuck Um a little bit later, Justified 248 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: and Eventually, Mad Men Breaking Bad kind of started creating 249 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: the idea of the of the cable drama right as 250 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: we understand that, and that has really set the template 251 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: for Netflix and Amazon. So for Cable, I don't think 252 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: that their best success goes into is based on necessarily 253 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: going into other genres which have never really been their 254 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: strong suit, but in finding ways to do what they're 255 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: doing more effectively and efficiently. And I think that means 256 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: working with a lot of outside partners and kind of 257 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 1: getting creative. And this is a place where the international 258 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: marketplace really offers a lot of opportunity. There is not 259 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: only more money coming into the entertainment industry than ever 260 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: before from streamers, but there's more money coming in from 261 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: abroad and the types of license fees that could be 262 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: expected from a major territory like the United Kingdom or Germany, UM, Australia, France, Italy. 263 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about factors of two x, three 264 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: x five x the amount of money that these territories 265 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: were kind of traditionally spinning off when they were content 266 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: to just kind of get the later season reruns of 267 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: some broadcast network show. From the US. Uh, there's much 268 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: more willing this to invest in content. And you look 269 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: at Norway, UH and the rest of Scandinavia, they are 270 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: becoming really known for developing great talent and spinning off 271 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: great shows. Shows like The Killing, which you know had 272 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: a cult following off of AMC and went to Netflix, 273 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: that was made by a Swedish production production company for 274 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: freak entertainment used to be fused, UH and so and 275 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: and those territories. Even what seems like a small territory 276 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: like Scandinavia, you could pull a million dollars in episode 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: license theme out of a commissioning broadcaster there, which is 278 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: an extraordinary amount of money for a territory like that 279 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: would have been unheard of ten years ago. The flip 280 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: side is they expect the shows to be meaningful to them. 281 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: They expected shows to be relevant, to use local talent, 282 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: to have local settings or locally culturally meaningful storylines. And 283 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: so I think what I would expect to see a 284 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: lot more of on cable is shows that have a 285 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: real international flair in the form of well known foreign actors, 286 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: maybe not well known in the US, but well known 287 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: in their countries of origin, or shows that are set 288 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: in European capitals or have historical sort of settings that 289 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, play on important elements of of world history, 290 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: because those are gonna be the shows that really generate 291 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: the excitement from those local broadcasters and platforms in these countries, 292 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: and we'll get them to put up much more money. 293 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: And if you have a lot more money from the international, 294 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: you can accept less money in the domestic. You can 295 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: reduce the level investment that's necessary for a network to 296 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: put out to get a show of the same quality, 297 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: same production values. Uh So the shows maybe, you know, 298 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: somewhat cheaper than the Netflix shows, but not as much 299 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: cheaper as they would need to be if you weren't 300 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: sharing the cost burden with new partners outside that are 301 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: more ready to participate than ever before. So we'll see 302 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: if the cable networks go this international route. But what 303 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: I'm also curious about is just day to day in 304 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: your job. I would just imagine whether it's actor salary 305 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: cost auction. There's a lot more zeros, and there used 306 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: to be the business affairs people are supposed to be 307 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: the sensible, you know folk that are getting the creatives 308 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: to rein in. How do you do your job nowadays 309 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: without losing your mind? It's a lot harder than it 310 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: used to be. And I'll give you one more factor. 311 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: We can't ask for quotes anymore, all right, So so 312 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: let me place on that for a second. There's recent 313 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: changes in the law in the state of California and 314 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: the City of New York that that prohibit employers from 315 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: asking for the salary history of their prospective new hires. 316 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: And this comes from a very good place. This is 317 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: about remedying gender disparities in pay in the workforce. Because 318 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: when companies were confronted with the fact that they were 319 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: paying women se what they were paying men, the answer 320 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: was usually, well, the man came in with a higher 321 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: salary from his prior job, so we had to pay 322 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: him more, and so the gap never got closed. And 323 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: so these legislators made the decision, well, if you can't 324 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: ask what the person made before, then you can't justify that, 325 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: and you have to pay what the job is worth 326 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: rather than what the person is demanding based on their 327 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: prior job. That has very interesting implications for the entertainment 328 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: industry because how we historically went about making deals, we 329 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: lived in the quote system. So if a creative executive 330 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: said I want to hire this writer or I want 331 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: to hire this actor. Before I would ever get into 332 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: constructing an offer, I would get the information about the 333 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: last deal they made with somebody else, and that was 334 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: publicly exchanged information. You would get it from the talent 335 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: and or his or her representatives, and then you would 336 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: verify it with the company, and then my job was 337 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: essentially to make a deal that was as close to 338 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: that last deal that they made as possible. You know, 339 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna ask for raises citing new success or new 340 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: notoriety or just you know, I'm not going to do 341 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: this deal for the same as the last, And it 342 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: was kind of a haddling exercise around that, but you 343 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: had this anchor that everybody was working from. I'm not 344 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: allowed to ask for quotes anymore. And not only that, 345 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: the other side, the representatives are only allowed to tell 346 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: me the quotes if they are specifically authorized by their 347 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: clients to share that information. They have their own kind 348 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: of liability concerns. So now it's this really open field 349 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: deal marketplace where instead of basing what I'm going to 350 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: offer somebody on what they last made, I have to 351 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: look for who are comparable people that we've hired before, 352 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: who are people of comparable stature, and how do we 353 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: think that this new person compares with a little bit 354 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: higher than person X and lower than person why. So 355 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: already there's kind of this uncertainty and open field which 356 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: creates opportunity for the representatives to push for more and 357 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: more and more, and then to tie that back into 358 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: the sort of macro context of the industry. You know, 359 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: again competition. You don't want to be the studio that's 360 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: left behind. As the business affairs person, you want to 361 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: impose discipline and sensibility, and you don't want to make 362 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: stupid deals. But if you don't win any deals because 363 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: everyone else is making stupid deals, a where the deal 364 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: is that stupid in first place? And be does you 365 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: a fat lot of good to be disciplined If your 366 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: company shuts down for lack of project and lack of talent, 367 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: that's willing to work for them for you? So uh, 368 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: we're getting a lot more pressure. Uh, And and the 369 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: reps I think, feel a lot more emboldened to ask 370 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: for more and more. Nowhere is this more apparent than 371 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: in the actor's market. I mean, three years ago, it 372 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: was almost a universally acknowledged reality that the maximum fee 373 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: that you would pay an actor in the first season 374 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: of a series was a hundred twenty thousand dollars in episode. 375 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: That was the high water mark. And maybe somebody who 376 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: had never worked before and was getting their first shot 377 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: out of the first acting class might be getting seventeen 378 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: and a half thousand per episode twenty thousand per episode, 379 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: and so relatively speaking, that's not that large of a 380 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: arrange that everybody lived in. It was like from twenty 381 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: to one twenty figured out somewhere in between. But the ceiling, 382 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: the ceiling is off one twenty is quaint. Now, you know, 383 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: you'll need to open up an issue of Variety frankly 384 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: and see that this actor is making three hundred thousand 385 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: dollars an episode, and that actor is making four hundred 386 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollars an episode, and rebody read the articles about 387 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston allegedly making a million dollars 388 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: in episode with Apple, And to be clear, I don't 389 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: know for a certain weather that's true. I'm reading it 390 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: in the trade same as everyone else. But that obviously 391 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: sets a new high water mark and a huge band 392 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: of negotiation. You're no longer haggling within a hundred thousand 393 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: dollar range. You're haggling within a million dollar range, and 394 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: people can ask for virtually anything, and you got to 395 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: figure it out. And again, you want to impost discipline. 396 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: But if the other guys willing to go there and 397 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: you're not, you'll start losing the deals and you can't 398 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: keep your business running. And yet here we are. You 399 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: know how Netflix, Amazon, Hulu have propelled this marketplace, and 400 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: yet there's still more coming. Apple, as you just alluded to, 401 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: could eventually grow to Netflix sized proportions in terms of 402 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: their entertainment investment. YouTube and Facebook could start to step 403 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: things up. So we're just going to take this marketplace. 404 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: It's going to be out of control. Yeah, well again, 405 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: I think that I think that the marketplace is going 406 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: to continue to grow and continue to be frothy, and 407 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: it's going to take a couple of years for these 408 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: tech companies to decide whether they're getting a return on 409 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: their investment. And what we're going to be really interesting 410 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: is just to see how they come to the conclusion 411 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: of whether these dollars spent, these high fees that they 412 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: themselves have been drawing were worth while to them. Because 413 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: they've all got wildly different business models with which to 414 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: measure the return on investment. You look at Netflix in 415 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: a sense that's the simplest version of it. They're just 416 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: selling subscriptions. They collect a certain number of dollars per 417 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: month from a certain number of human beings. That's the revenue. Yeah, 418 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: there's set some answery stuff, but essentially they're selling one product, 419 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: the subscription to their service, and they've got one revenue 420 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: model for it. And so it may be hard to 421 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: measure the return on an investment on any one deal 422 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: or anyone show, but you look at the slate and 423 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: you can kind of compare the numbers in one column 424 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: to the other. Compare that to Amazon, where video is 425 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: just a huge part of their overall market strategy. I 426 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: think it's really significant that Amazon Prime ins and video, 427 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: the video subscription service, is not generally made available or 428 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: pushed as a separate subscription. If I pay twelve a 429 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: month for Amazon Prime because I want to watch Man 430 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: in the High Castle or Transparent, that same twelve a 431 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: month there, you know, hundred nine a year, whatever it is, 432 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: is also getting me my two day free shipping. It's 433 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: also getting me my Kindle lending library, and my Amazon 434 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: Music subscription. It's a real technical challenge for the people 435 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: those companies to try to make sense of this subscription decision. 436 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: How much was it driven by the show versus all 437 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: these other aspects of our value offering. And then also 438 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: remember Amazon's goal is not necessarily to run the world's 439 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: most successful video service. Amazon's goal, i think you can 440 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: hear from Visas himself, is to run the world's largest, 441 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: most successful company. You know, there's a reason why the 442 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: book about Amazon was called the Everything Store, because they 443 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: want to sell everything to everyone. So it's all part 444 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: of this world domination plan. Somewhere in between, you have Apple, 445 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: which is not quite as expansive, and it's ambitious and 446 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: not quite as diverse in its business model and has 447 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: a more sort of direct relationship between technology and content. 448 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: You know, there's you know, the purpose of of the 449 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: iTunes store for as a music marketplace was to push 450 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: iPod sales. And it wasn't that they were making so 451 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: much money selling three's. They were just selling a lot 452 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: more iPads because of it. So there's more direct connection 453 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: between their products and their core business and uh and 454 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: the video concept, but it's still more attenuated than for 455 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: a Netflix, where that's just their one business, and then 456 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: Facebook is you know, a thing unto itself where in 457 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: some senses it's almost more like a traditional broadcaster, where 458 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: fundamentally they're selling eyeballs, they're selling access to advertisers, and 459 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: so all of their different areas of business are about 460 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: increasing engagement with the customer, you know, getting more customer 461 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: time on the website, more customers eyeballs on the website, 462 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: and then selling access to those eyeballs. So again, it's 463 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: just a different setting for what the broadcasters were doing 464 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: all along, get the people to watch and sell their 465 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: eyeballs to the advertisers. So all these companies are gonna 466 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: measure return on investment in wildly different ways. And I 467 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: think some of them are going to conclude that this 468 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: is worth a while, and some of them are going 469 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: to conclude that it's not. And a big part of 470 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: that is gonna be how many people are actually watching 471 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: these shows. And when you say some of these companies 472 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: could say it's not worth the time or investment, what 473 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: is going to happen when a major player that is, 474 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: you know, investing billions pulls out of the market place. 475 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: I assume the market doesn't just you know, move uh 476 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: smoothly forward. And I mean, that's a fantastic question, to 477 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: be honest, and and the honest answer on my part 478 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: is I'm not really sure. I think it's gonna send 479 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: a critical signal to the marketplace of you know, the 480 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: first major player that pulls out is is kind of 481 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: the sign on the road that says, you know, road 482 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: ending ahead that maybe you know, this thing is really 483 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: gonna tip and we're gonna start turning in the other direction. 484 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: There's been little movements in that direction. You know, Bravo 485 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: has been public about rethinking its strategy for scripted and 486 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: maybe pulling back on its investment in scripted. A and 487 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: E had the well regarded Bates Motel kind of pulled 488 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: out of that scripted business as well, But at the 489 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: end of the day, their investments were never so robust 490 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: that that really moved the needle in the aggregate marketplace. 491 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: If you know, Amazon or Apple, which have been pumping 492 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: billions of dollars into the ecosystem for the last couple 493 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: of years, suddenly stops, well for one, that dramatically changes 494 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: the competitive landscape. You don't no longer have to have 495 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: companies that are sort of falling over one another to 496 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: see who can be the most generous to get people 497 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: to work with them. Um, you know, I think one 498 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: thing that I'm going to be interested to see also 499 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: is when does the talent start changing they're thinking about 500 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: things right now, because you know, there are lots of 501 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: different things that motivate talent, and money is a great 502 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: way to do it. It's usually the easiest way to 503 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: do it, and it's certainly something that you know, if 504 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: you've got more available, you can just put more on 505 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the table. But that's not the only thing that motivates talent. 506 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: Talent cares about their products there, their baby being seen there, 507 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, putting this great creative effort, and they want 508 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: that to be experienced and appreciated by other people. If 509 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: they start feeling that, boy, it's great to catch these checks. 510 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: But if the output doesn't have any cultural impact and 511 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: doesn't reach anybody, what's really the point. Maybe I want 512 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: to focus my efforts back into other areas where I 513 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: think my stuff is going to be appreciated. I think 514 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: that's a factor that is maybe informed, at least in 515 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: the early days, some of the differences in experience between 516 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: Amazon and Netflix in the theatrical market. Um. Netflix has 517 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: been very unwilling to work with exhibitors and to compromise 518 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: on their day and date strategy, and so they get 519 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: X to very few screens and Netflix movies and to 520 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: have very small theatrical release or no theatrical release whatsoever. 521 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: And Amazon, you know, I think they're still working on 522 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: on growing their audiences, but has been much more willing 523 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: to strike a balance between serving their video service and 524 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: their ecosystem and also getting the film into theaters. Um. 525 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: And one of the ways that you know is showing 526 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: in results is in Oscar nominations. Not that either of 527 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: them has been sort of running away with it, but 528 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: Amazon has certainly been much more successful than Netflix when 529 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: it comes to gathering OSCAR nominations because of that theatrical strategy. 530 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: And I think because of the theatrical strategy, meaning the 531 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: Academy voters are still prioritizing the theatrical experience and they 532 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: want to reward things that they're seeing in theaters. But 533 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: also I think that there have been you know, more 534 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: a tour like writers and directors and theatrical talent that 535 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: has been willing to work with Amazon because they're willing 536 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: to prioritize access to that theatrical release. So with all 537 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: this activity and the streaming side, let's not forget that 538 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: back in so called traditional media, we're seeing Disney is 539 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: going to really uh consolidate what they do in terms 540 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: of getting a big streaming product that could potentially rival Netflix. 541 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: We're seeing a T and T saying HBO is going 542 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: to become a bigger entity. We'll see by how much 543 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: will the deal making with even traditional media companies change 544 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: as their path to market goes direct to consumer? Well, 545 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: I think yes, but maybe not as much for the 546 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: talent necessarily as for some of the intermediary companies. I mean, 547 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: the big people talk about consolidation, but the thing that 548 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: consolidation is sort of means for practical purposes in our 549 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: TV industry is vertical integration. If you're an independent studio, 550 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: try to sell a show to EFFECTS right now, you 551 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: can't do it. You know, try to sell a show 552 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: to AMC. Maybe they'll put an offer on the table, 553 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: It's probably not going to be one that you're willing 554 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: to accept. And so as these companies are getting bigger 555 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger, they are I think of diminishing 556 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: willingness to work with other people. Um, you know, I 557 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: think that the Disney s VOD service and the Disney 558 00:28:53,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: Fox combination are inextricably related to each other. Buying Box 559 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: dramatically increases the volume of projects that Disney has available 560 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: to funnel into its service, and so the deals for 561 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: the talent might not change, but the intermediaries are going 562 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: to be increasingly pressured in the market as all of 563 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: these companies kind of transform into walled guard enclosed ecosystems 564 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: where they just developed for themselves, produced from themselves, and 565 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: exhibit to their own subscribers, and they try to reduce 566 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: their interconnections with other parts of the industry. And that's 567 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: happening not only in kind of the studio network relationship 568 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: and language and linkage, but it's also been part of 569 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: the network MVPD meaning satellite or cable provider linkage going 570 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: back only ten years. If you wanted to watch any network, 571 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: unless it was a broadcast network, you got access to 572 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: that network through some intermediary, a provider, a cable company, 573 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: a satellite company. And even when streaming became available and 574 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: people wanted access on smart devices, that was still usually 575 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: tied to a subscription. You could watch FX now the 576 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: app if you could log in to show that you 577 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: were subscribed to a cable or satellite company that included 578 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: a subscription to FX. That really started changing, I think 579 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: first with Netflix really establishing a direct consumer subscription business 580 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: that was in no way intermediated by a traditional cable 581 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: or satellite company. Netflix was also very smart and very 582 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: proactive about saying, boy, instead of working with cable and 583 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: satellite companies, let's work with device manufacturers. Let's get a 584 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: Netflix app built into the television. Let's get a Netflix 585 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: remote excuse me, a Netflix button on the remote from 586 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: the TV coming out of the box. What an amazing 587 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: tool that is. And they focused on that because that's 588 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: a less intermediated relationship with the customer. And more traditional 589 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,719 Speaker 1: companies have followed suit. So Hbo, which you know, even 590 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: as the cable and satellite companies were losing subscribers to 591 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: cord cutters, you know, streamers, h HBO was the thing 592 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: that was saving them, you know that in live sports basically, 593 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: and then HBO offered HBO now and all of a sudden, 594 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: you can pay fifteen dollars a month to HBO and 595 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: you don't have to pay for the rest of your 596 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: cable or satellite subscription. Um So, Netflix has excuse me, 597 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: HBO reduced the distance between them and the customer, cut 598 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 1: out that middleman. Um So again examples of kind of 599 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: closed ecosystem, walled gardens. It's it's those those connective tissue 600 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: players in the industry that are going to suffer, I think, 601 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: much more than the talent are in that world. So 602 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, as I mentioned earlier, you've worked at a 603 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: number of different places. You're at Paramount now, Sony, Amazon, 604 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: so you've gotten different fields for different kinds of companies. 605 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: As we go through this period of what I think 606 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: is kind of unprecedented change for this industry, do you 607 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: have a vision of how things are going to play out, 608 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, to five years, ten years from now and 609 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: perhaps you know, is this going to be a good 610 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: thing for the industry at the end of the day, 611 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: or were getting to a place as you were kind 612 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: of alluding to, where the consolidation is going to bring 613 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: us to very few players. Yeah, I mean, look, I 614 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: think that um there's inevitably gonna be winners and losers. 615 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: So it's not even necessary, necessarily meaningful to talk about 616 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: is it's going to be good for the industry so 617 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: much as it's gonna be good for certain constituencies within 618 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: the industry. Um, you know, my sort of predictions big 619 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: picture for the next you know, five years, ten years, 620 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: is I'm gonna start with a vacating of the middle 621 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: in terms of scale. I think everybody's gonna be really 622 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: really big or really really small and nimble. They're gonna 623 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: be able to do huge things, are going to be 624 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: able to do cheap things. And in a way that 625 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: kind of echoes something that's been playing out in the 626 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: film world in a big way over the last fifteen years. 627 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: You know, anybody in the film world will tell you 628 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: how hard it is to get a movie made that 629 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: costs between twenty million and eighty million dollars. Right now, 630 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: it's got to be done for a budget or it's 631 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: got to be huge four quadrant entertainment with you know, 632 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: franchise potential, and that middle ground has kind of evaporated it. 633 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: I think that's a potentially apt metaphor for what the 634 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: corporate landscape is going to be. If your middle size, 635 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: your your overheads too high, your your market entry challenges 636 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: are are too high, and you've gotta push to get 637 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: bigger or get small. Um. Another thing that I would 638 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: sort of put out there is I do think that 639 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: the you know, the pace of growth of what we 640 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: are seeing in the industry is unsustainable, and I do 641 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: think there will be a tipping point. Obviously, it's coming 642 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: later than John Landgraft predicted when he gave his original 643 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: peak TV address. Uh, you referenced a little while ago. 644 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: You know some of the data on this, and you 645 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: start seeing this already in parts of the market. So 646 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: while people are looking at the overall accounts of scripted 647 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: comedies and dramas on television and they're saying, boy, every 648 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: year is bigger than the year before it. And we've 649 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: gone from you know, two hundred and sixteen or Twitter 650 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: eighteen shows ten years ago too. It's probably gonna be 651 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: over five hundred when when this year is done, which 652 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: is staggering growth. But if you start limiting that to 653 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: the last two years or so, when I were talking 654 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: about having moved from around four d twenty five shows 655 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: to over five hundred shows, which is still massive growth. 656 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: But where is that growth coming from. It's coming from 657 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: the streamers, and you look at basic cable and their 658 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: production counts are actually down from two years ago. Broadcast 659 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: basically flat, which is also unsurprising because broadcast has finite 660 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: inventory in terms of broadcast hours to UH to deal 661 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: with and a sort of traditional kind of prime time 662 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: programming schedule. UH. Premium cable also basically flat over the 663 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,959 Speaker 1: last two years. Now. I do think that that could 664 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: also change because you referenced and I'm hearing the same 665 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: thing about pressure from a T and T on HBO 666 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: to go the Netflix strategy to go volume business UM. 667 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: But I think you are likely to see a small 668 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: number of players that capture a very large amount of 669 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: the volume UM and in some ways, you know, players 670 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: that are built to be able to do that. At 671 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: broadcast network or even a cable network can only have 672 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: so many shows on the air because they've got twenty 673 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: four hours a day to phil and some of that 674 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: time's got to go to ads, and some of that 675 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: time there's not enough people watching to justify spending money 676 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: on anything other than nympommercial. But you know, the you know, 677 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: Netflix is to a traditional network the way that Amazon 678 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: is to a traditional bookstore. The shelf space is endless. 679 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: It goes on to infinity so they can just keep 680 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: stacking and stacking and stacking. So um, I think volume 681 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: is going to be highly concentrated as well. Well. Ken 682 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: at the rate of change that we're seeing in this 683 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: industry that we've talked a lot about here today, you 684 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: may need to put out new editions of your book 685 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: every six months. Well, you know, I said it may 686 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: be a fool's errand to write a book like this 687 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: becomes because it comes outdated so quickly, but it also 688 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: maybe a genius business plan because I may have to 689 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: generate ten more of these before the decade is out. Well, well, 690 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: we'll get you to work. Thanks for coming in and 691 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: talking to me. Thank you so much, my pleasure, and 692 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: thanks for listening to another episode of Strictly Business. Tune 693 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: in next week when my podcast partners sent you. Littleton 694 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: Managing editor of Television at Variety sits down with the 695 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: director and entrepreneur timour Bekmambatoff. And if you are liking 696 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: what you're hearing from this podcast each week, make sure 697 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: you to leave some praise in the app store or 698 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: email us at podcasts at Variety dot com. See you 699 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: next time.