Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee Stunstam's podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm here in New York with Kate Thompson.
Speaker 3: We have recovered from the US Open, have we? I
Speaker 3: mean I was down for the count for like a
Speaker 3: solid week.
Speaker 2: You know what did me?
Speaker 1: And actually we didn't discuss this after the US Open
Speaker 1: because we were still like high on the supply of
Speaker 1: the US Open.
Speaker 2: But what did me in was the first week? Can I? Yeah,
Speaker 2: the extra week really grant to tweet dust.
Speaker 1: Well, also you had all those great things going on
Speaker 1: with racket down at the pier, the seaport, and and
Speaker 1: so I did stuff there, and I was like back
Speaker 1: and forth from the city and to this. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to confess something, Caitlin and to our viewers.
Speaker 2: This happens from time to time.
Speaker 1: But so so, I don't know when Coco played Isla Tomlanovitch.
Speaker 2: I think it was a Monday night. Was it Monday night? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think that's right.
Speaker 1: So I actually had I stay out the I stayed
Speaker 1: out at LaGuardia Hotel. I won't say which one because
Speaker 1: I don't want any stock is coming to find me.
Speaker 2: But here's not that many.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I stay at LaGuardia during the time during
Speaker 1: the US Open because it is literally a ten minute
Speaker 1: car ride from there to the court. So if you
Speaker 1: are a tennis fan, honestly and you really dearly only
Speaker 1: want to go to the tennis and you don't, you're
Speaker 1: not listen. I stayed in LaGuardia.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 3: I thought this was if you're a tennis fan and
Speaker 3: you want to starck your favorite athletes, And I was like, well,
Speaker 3: you're prospecting, You're an anti staking.
Speaker 2: You stock your athletes.
Speaker 1: You need to be in the city, but the athletes
Speaker 1: in the city, but the But if you're a tennis
Speaker 1: nut and you'll.
Speaker 3: Commentator, stay in the Warrior, that makes sense. So I geah,
Speaker 3: I guess you're right. You could just commute ten minutes
Speaker 3: instead of literally totally.
Speaker 1: So anyway, my point in telling you this is I
Speaker 1: do live in the city. Of course, we're sitting in
Speaker 1: my apartment. But I was able to go home a
Speaker 1: bit this year because our schedules allowed us. And the
Speaker 1: first I always stay at home, and so I didn't
Speaker 1: have to work on Monday night and I didn't have
Speaker 1: to work until a little bit later on Tuesday, so
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm going to go home.
Speaker 2: I mean, who doesn't want to sleep in their own bed?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So I come home.
Speaker 1: I'm watching Cocos match with Eyler. I am so fucking
Speaker 1: tired from the from the fan week, yeah, and the
Speaker 1: you know Stars of the Night or whatever Stars at
Speaker 1: the Open and you know all the things that happened.
Speaker 1: It was one all in the third set and it
Speaker 1: was like literally nine point thirty and I went to bed.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't even watch the third set.
Speaker 1: I just got on you so unlike me and I
Speaker 1: work because I'm literally up till midnight or one. Like,
Speaker 1: I text you at like midnight, and I know I'm
Speaker 1: going to get a text at seven in the morning,
Speaker 1: which I'm not going to read until like eight thirty.
Speaker 2: I'm traily six fifteen.
Speaker 1: But I don't even know why I text you, but
Speaker 1: I want you to have it at seven in that
Speaker 1: that's good.
Speaker 2: We have her own system of communicator. And when you
Speaker 2: don't hear from me until like nine am, you know,
Speaker 2: or she just woke up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, my point in telling you is I was
Speaker 1: wrecked up the first week of fan Week and I
Speaker 1: fell asleep, didn't even watch Cocos match, woke up the
Speaker 1: next morning, watched the third set, so I knew what
Speaker 1: the hell had happened, and but I got about ten
Speaker 1: hours sleep that night, and I was I was back.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was back for two weeks after that, and
Speaker 2: then what happened, I was pretty good. Like the schedule
Speaker 2: was not crazy. We didn't have Uber late nights this year.
Speaker 1: I had the one o'clock in the morning match of
Speaker 1: Osaka and Anissam over and everyone's asked me, what was
Speaker 1: your favorite match? That For me, that was the best match. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just drama. And as I said as a commentator,
Speaker 1: you're I was like, oh man, that first semi was
Speaker 1: so good. Damn mine's not going to be as good.
Speaker 2: And then it was better. Yeah. So anyway, so I
Speaker 2: don't even know why we got into the USO. Oh,
Speaker 2: I was on the plate. I was. I had the
Speaker 2: plague for like five days. You did, and you still
Speaker 2: sound a little stuffy. I know I'm still a nantibatic,
Speaker 2: so fuck, but I didn't give it to me. When
Speaker 2: you came over.
Speaker 3: I think I am you attempted to me. I sort
Speaker 3: of did a caughe you or something. Anyway, I I
Speaker 3: just went too hard for too long and now we're
Speaker 3: back aout now, I will say, and I want to
Speaker 3: sort of get into this.
Speaker 2: I love tennis. We both do. We have tennis so
Speaker 2: so much. We have a podcast about it.
Speaker 3: We have a podcast about it, one of the longest
Speaker 3: running tennis podcasts now in history. Because we do have
Speaker 3: to talk about some of the newcomers, which I'm very
Speaker 3: excited about. It's always fun when new people get into
Speaker 3: the mix. I don't care about any tennis that's happening
Speaker 3: right now, and I want to know. And I there
Speaker 3: are people that I like, and I'm like, oh, Emata Kona,
Speaker 3: I've enjoyed her whole season. I'm glad she won her
Speaker 3: match in Korea. Maybe I'll put it on later in
Speaker 3: the background because it obviously happened overnight.
Speaker 2: And egos Ciontech is playing in Korea. Egish Fiantech does
Speaker 2: not need to be playing in Korea. She must be
Speaker 2: getting so much money to go there. I guess appearance phase.
Speaker 3: But I just, you know, I wanted to talk about
Speaker 3: this because I think one of the things that's so
Speaker 3: fantastic about this year in tennis, and you know, the
Speaker 3: mix the US US have been got sort of the
Speaker 3: diehards were sort of I think, I don't say alienated,
Speaker 3: but the diehards felt like, oh, okay, well now we've
Speaker 3: like fully given this tournament over to the newcomers, which
Speaker 3: I get their point. There's a lot of people taking selfies,
Speaker 3: not paying attention to the tennis. The grounds are act
Speaker 3: because USTA just sells so many tickets.
Speaker 2: Some would say, you know, they're shaking the seating next year.
Speaker 3: Well, before we get into that, I just kind of
Speaker 3: want to make the larger point that, like with the
Speaker 3: influx of new fans and the record viewership and record
Speaker 3: ticket sales and record sales of Honeyduces and all this
Speaker 3: stuff and TV writings and TV ratings, like, it's all
Speaker 3: for me net positive. Sometimes it comes maybe at the
Speaker 3: expense of people who are diehards who like to have
Speaker 3: you know, the grand stand to themselves. But I think
Speaker 3: this is a good problem to have. It means the
Speaker 3: sport is growing. And I also want to encourage people
Speaker 3: who only go to the US Open or only see
Speaker 3: this one tournament to go to other ones because a
Speaker 3: lot of them are much much much better now.
Speaker 2: In different ways, in different ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not just slight the US Open, but nothing
Speaker 3: based spanning, not very beatsks.
Speaker 1: I will say this, nothing beats the the.
Speaker 2: Manic, crazy light, crazy shit that.
Speaker 1: Happens unless you're in a nosebleed seating. You can't move down.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're there. Well, this and Nash Stadium
Speaker 1: is the worst. It's not a great stadium in the world.
Speaker 3: Now again, my point I'm bringing this up is not
Speaker 3: to debate the pros and cons of the US Open,
Speaker 3: but rather to say, you know, we have this fantastic
Speaker 3: culmination of a summer series. We go from Australia into
Speaker 3: you know, the Middle East, the South America, we go
Speaker 3: all these places, we go to Europe for a time,
Speaker 3: then we come back to the States.
Speaker 2: We have this hardcourt series.
Speaker 3: We have amazing matches, and then the US Open happens
Speaker 3: and it's like amazing. Caroll Bouchard, a French writer on
Speaker 3: her sub stack, made the very very excellent point and
Speaker 3: framing it as you know, if you go to a play,
Speaker 3: a three act play, you don't want all the action
Speaker 3: to happen in the second act and then the second
Speaker 3: act be the big exciting stuff, and then what's happening
Speaker 3: in the third act, and it does feel like tennis
Speaker 3: is now having the third act of the season, where
Speaker 3: there's exhibitions, there's some tournaments in Asia.
Speaker 1: There's Billy Jing King cupsky Sa Billaging King Cup, I've
Speaker 1: a Cup, Labor Cup. Who like even cares about Labor Cup?
Speaker 1: And so is this the best and most exciting third act?
Speaker 1: And some would say, while we've got the two finals
Speaker 1: and everyone cares about that, And I would say, do
Speaker 1: they some people care about that. I get that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of money involved in it. Obviously it's not
Speaker 1: a new topic because we've talked about this before. But
Speaker 1: I just I think she raises a good point, which is,
Speaker 1: especially with the influx of new fans, what is keeping
Speaker 1: them around and what is the sort of follow up
Speaker 1: dessert course.
Speaker 3: Of the US Open? And if this is it, then
Speaker 3: I think we have to rethink it. Not only because
Speaker 3: the players are all you know, dead and bloodied and
Speaker 3: buried along the way kind of thing, because they're all
Speaker 3: exhausted and a lot of them are doing this out
Speaker 3: of either appearance fee or national pride. Right now, we're
Speaker 3: watching Paula Badosa play Elina Spadelina, you know, to a
Speaker 3: crowd of tens in Shenzen for Billageing King Cup, and it's.
Speaker 2: Like, well, I love those players, but what are we doing?
Speaker 3: So I don't know that I have the answer to that,
Speaker 3: but it does feel like it's an emergency.
Speaker 2: I think this is more than ten Let's just be honest.
Speaker 2: This this actually.
Speaker 3: Brought ten people. But my point is it's not a packed,
Speaker 3: rollicking stadium.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, it's hot to see how many people are there
Speaker 1: because they don't show the full stadium, and from what
Speaker 1: I can see, there's an entire box on the right
Speaker 1: that's got one person in it. But the first ten
Speaker 1: rows look pretty full. It's just what's after that.
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to say that this is probably
Speaker 3: drawing the in prison crowds that it deserves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we couldn't argue that.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, yeah, it's we've talked about this
Speaker 1: a lot in the pod over the years, and it's
Speaker 1: like after the US Open, everyone does think that tennis
Speaker 1: is over. You know, from a from a macro standpoint,
Speaker 1: I think we tennis players it's not a joy to
Speaker 1: like schlap over to Asia and spend like a month
Speaker 1: over there, because you just feel like you're so far
Speaker 1: from everything unless you're Asian. Unless you're Asian, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Like for Chinese players or you know, any of the
Speaker 1: Asian players, it's great. They can fly like two hours
Speaker 1: and they don't get that opportunity. As an Australian, I
Speaker 1: get that, and I understand out of and it's not
Speaker 1: great and it's not easy. But yeah, I mean, but
Speaker 1: how do we solve this because you know, the amount
Speaker 1: of money that Billy jan Kin Cup is offering now
Speaker 1: is enormous. Like God, when I played, if I was
Speaker 1: getting like five grand I just represent my country and
Speaker 1: like take away prize money, I was having a good day.
Speaker 1: Now they're winning hundreds of thousand, thousands of dollars to
Speaker 1: play in it. So the fact that Gainbridge and all
Speaker 1: these great sponsors and Billy and Alana have done an
Speaker 1: amazing job with all these sort of like sponsors to
Speaker 1: come in and support support the w to support the
Speaker 1: Billy Jean King Cup. But it just it just maybe
Speaker 1: if they continue to have it, there becomes like something
Speaker 1: that and I do, like I said this to you
Speaker 1: before we start the pod, I do like the fact
Speaker 1: that it is in Shenzen for one reason only all
Speaker 1: the players are going to Asia, They're going to Beijing,
Speaker 1: They're going there, and so this is a way for
Speaker 1: them to start the Asian tour. So I like that
Speaker 1: concept a lot. The problem is, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get people from Spain going to Shenzhen. You're not going
Speaker 1: to get people from Ukraine going to Shenzen.
Speaker 2: You're not going to get.
Speaker 1: People from the Czech Republic really going to Shenzen. So
Speaker 1: who are you, you know before? Who is this for
Speaker 1: homo spectators?
Speaker 3: But I mean, I think part of my point is
Speaker 3: maybe the location, which I get, and I think that
Speaker 3: you're right, you're making a good point about the time
Speaker 3: zone and acclimating to you know, that.
Speaker 2: Part of the world.
Speaker 3: I actually mean it less because I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I was watching some of the Davis Cup, which was
Speaker 3: other places in the last few weeks, and it's it's
Speaker 3: also not it's it to me. It has more to
Speaker 3: do with a calendar than it has to do with the.
Speaker 2: Location the finals. At least it's true.
Speaker 1: But this is the BJK Cup is the finals right now,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be done right right, whereas the
Speaker 1: guys are not done until like freaking November.
Speaker 2: It's a joke.
Speaker 3: I just I'm sort of challenging the notion because I
Speaker 3: think I am somebody who wants tennis in Asia, I'm
Speaker 3: somebody who wants tennis in Latin America. I'm somebody who
Speaker 3: wants tennis a lot of different places, because I think
Speaker 3: that's one of the coolest parts of our sport is
Speaker 3: we have players and fans all over the world. I
Speaker 3: don't think that the tournament in shinzen Is is not
Speaker 3: a good idea because of fanship and sponsors. Although you know,
Speaker 3: you can always have the conversation, I think it's a
Speaker 3: bad idea because it's hard to care about anything after
Speaker 3: the US Open, including the tour finals, which you know,
Speaker 3: you could put in the same category, which is like
Speaker 3: you know, the piff rankings and everyone who the race
Speaker 3: to the thing, and it's like, well, do if any
Speaker 3: player on the tour still if you say you could
Speaker 3: be number one at the end of the year, or
Speaker 3: you could win a slam, yeah, they're going to say
Speaker 3: slam one of the players, Yeah, Yanny.
Speaker 2: People that say they don't want to win a slam.
Speaker 1: Wheelchair got to number one in the world and didn't
Speaker 1: get a slam, and didn't get a slam. I'm sure,
Speaker 1: like you know, uh, Carolina Pliskova.
Speaker 3: Carolina Pliskova, or I'm thinking about uh, you know the
Speaker 3: Russian player, uh with this crazy serve.
Speaker 2: Remember her, she wanted silver medal at the Olympics. They
Speaker 2: got to number one.
Speaker 1: Was a Serbian friend, who oh, Yolena Yankovic Jankovic, who
Speaker 1: can forget Ilena?
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: They would absolutely like like Eva Mayoli won the French Open,
Speaker 1: didn't get to number one, I think she would take
Speaker 1: the French Ope.
Speaker 2: And I've been getting to number one. I think so.
Speaker 2: So I think there is.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're both amazing, but I think you don't
Speaker 1: want one without the other.
Speaker 3: I think what why this feels pertinent to me this
Speaker 3: year more than past times when we've talked about it
Speaker 3: and it has remained true, is that now tennis, very
Speaker 3: clearly from a outside in perspective, has been succeeding in
Speaker 3: on the upswing, both recreational and people spectating the pro game.
Speaker 3: From a institutional standpoint, I think a lot of these stakeholders,
Speaker 3: the Grand Slams, the marketing, the brands, the athletes themselves
Speaker 3: have embraced the idea that there are a lot of
Speaker 3: there's an influx of new eyeballs and new participants and
Speaker 3: new people who care about it. I think that's wonderful.
Speaker 3: That's what we've sort of been waiting for. And when
Speaker 3: I started record a decade ago, it was like, why
Speaker 3: are you doing tennis? It's a sport that's dying, And
Speaker 3: I was like, not to me. Now I don't have
Speaker 3: to make that case anymore. I don't have to explain
Speaker 3: why this is relevant and why people care about it
Speaker 3: and why it's a larger addressable market than just people
Speaker 3: who buy rackets, because there's so many people who just
Speaker 3: want to experience the lifestyle of it. Great, So what
Speaker 3: are we doing from a product standpoint that's helping them?
Speaker 2: And this isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean some people might argue that Asia is
Speaker 1: a huge, clearly huge market and they're getting tennis there
Speaker 1: and they're going to have tennis grow in that part
Speaker 1: of the world. I don't know, but it is difficult.
Speaker 1: We've talked about it at nauseum. I think that all
Speaker 1: the other exhibitions dilute the product. I would love to see, frankly,
Speaker 1: i'd love to see combined. I think Davis Cup and
Speaker 1: Fed Cup, Billy Jean King Cup. It's so hard for me.
Speaker 1: I played Fed Cup for like twenty years. But the
Speaker 1: BJK Cup and Davis Cup are so important to the
Speaker 1: grassroots of sport of tennis in every country. There's nothing
Speaker 1: like representing your country. It was my favorite weeks of
Speaker 1: the year was playing in BJK Cup for Australia. There
Speaker 1: were some of the most memorable weeks. So these weeks
Speaker 1: are great. But and you do have a team bonding,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter where you are, so I think
Speaker 1: it's really important. I just think we need to as
Speaker 1: a as a as a sport really come up with
Speaker 1: the best product and whatever that means. And I think
Speaker 1: a mixed event would be amazing. Whether you know, Hopman
Speaker 1: Cup was great at the start of the year. I
Speaker 1: think that's an opportunity to do it. I mean, we do,
Speaker 1: they do have a Hopman Cup. It was again earlier
Speaker 1: this year. Nobody remembered it or knew about it. Italy
Speaker 1: won it in Italy and it was crazy crowds and
Speaker 1: it was amazing, But the only people that cared about
Speaker 1: it were Italy in Italy because nobody else saw it
Speaker 1: unless you were like glue to it. On Tennis channel
Speaker 1: and not. I mean I'm a tennis fan and I
Speaker 1: forgot about it. I didn't even know what was happening
Speaker 1: because it was after Wimbledon, so everyone's like, Okay, what's next,
Speaker 1: yous Open?
Speaker 2: So that's sort of the problem.
Speaker 1: And then we're having issues like after Wimbledon, people are
Speaker 1: pulling out of the Canadian tournaments like Sinner and our
Speaker 1: Carez and you know, Sablanka and all this, and then
Speaker 1: you know, we also wanted to talk about the fact
Speaker 1: that like Sabalalanka is pulled out of Beijing, that's not tomorrow,
Speaker 1: that's like it's in two weeks. You know, the fact
Speaker 1: that she's.
Speaker 3: Already decided that she's essentially shutting down a chunk of
Speaker 3: the season.
Speaker 1: And she said for a minor injury. So what does
Speaker 1: that even mean? So she just here's the deal. These
Speaker 1: players have decided, and she's going to take a zero
Speaker 1: point there. She doesn't care she's gonna have to pay
Speaker 1: a fine. Oh no, she might not have to pay
Speaker 1: a fine because she isn't a quote unquote injury, right,
Speaker 1: So but she's not playing there. Eager is pulled out
Speaker 1: of Korea, you know, Anissimova pulled out of Korea as well,
Speaker 1: because these tournaments are too close to a Grand Slam.
Speaker 1: And I feel sorry for those tournaments because they literally
Speaker 1: are putting on their one event all year and spending
Speaker 1: a lot of money and trying to get the sponsors.
Speaker 1: And it's hard to continually get sponsors if the top
Speaker 1: players pull out. And I get the whole big picture,
Speaker 1: but I mean, these players are their own bosses and
Speaker 1: they have to take care of their own body and
Speaker 1: their own mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a lot fucking season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think all to me, all of this, Yes,
Speaker 3: we can innovate around the mix. I think that's a
Speaker 3: great idea to mix BJK and Davis. It's not the
Speaker 3: first time that's been suggested. I think it's a brilliant idea.
Speaker 3: I think it again leans into the thing that is
Speaker 3: the most exciting about our sport, which is that that's.
Speaker 1: An opportunity to have a week ten day event instead
Speaker 1: of these mustas and WT at one thousands having a
Speaker 1: ten day event, I'm just ruining the calendar.
Speaker 2: The schedule is broken. Because the schedule is broken. It's broken,
Speaker 2: and it's broken.
Speaker 3: It's broken, and the amount of time and you know,
Speaker 3: I see the tennis world from a little bit of
Speaker 3: a different perspective because I see all these like pitch
Speaker 3: decks circulating for people trying to raise money for new
Speaker 3: business ideas, which is exciting and cool. And don't get
Speaker 3: me wrong, like I love the fact that tennis is
Speaker 3: now being identified as a place where there's growth possible
Speaker 3: again for the same reasons I was just talking about,
Speaker 3: where people are like, oh, it's dying. Who cares, I'm
Speaker 3: going to invest in pickleball instead. It's like cool, good,
Speaker 3: have fun with that, reaching a down market audience with
Speaker 3: a dying dumb I believe you even brought that. We
Speaker 3: with a you know, with a dying populace of participants.
Speaker 3: But I do think the you know, the business opportunity
Speaker 3: isn't exhibition.
Speaker 2: It's not more exhibitions.
Speaker 3: It's like, I know, we'll get an exhibition and we'll
Speaker 3: put on the calendar and we'll get the best players available.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, respectfully, like labor Cup is happening right now,
Speaker 3: does Roger Feder have to go to it to make
Speaker 3: people care about it? And even now do they? I
Speaker 3: don't think so, you know, it's it's San Francisco is
Speaker 3: getting an event, which is great. They California has been bereft. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we had weside women's events there for a long long time.
Speaker 3: You know the fact that Los Angeles doesn't have an
Speaker 3: event that San Francisco after losing San Jose, which you
Speaker 3: know is a different city, but essentially the Bay Area
Speaker 3: lost its major women's event a couple of years ago. Like,
Speaker 3: you know, you want to bring tennis to these places.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, it's like, is Labor Cup.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I just, well, it's only going to be
Speaker 1: there one time and then it's gone.
Speaker 3: I just I don't see the exhibition. To me a
Speaker 3: strong body of tours and I think I'm probably ready
Speaker 3: to say like, I'm not sure the tours bring much
Speaker 3: value to the tennis world. All they seem to do
Speaker 3: is want to do their own commercial deals and market
Speaker 3: the players poorly, and they don't have any brand equity
Speaker 3: in and of themselves.
Speaker 2: I don't know what they do outside. That's the problem.
Speaker 3: Provide insurance to me, an actual players union where they
Speaker 3: can just deal with one body on the other side
Speaker 3: of the negotiating table is so obviously the answer. It's like, okay,
Speaker 3: great that the Slams consolidate and the players negotiate directly
Speaker 3: with them. They decide on a calendar, and they decide
Speaker 3: on a series of rules, and then Bob's your uncle.
Speaker 3: Like other sports have figured this out, and I get
Speaker 3: that people don't want to give up.
Speaker 1: They don't want to give up their small tournaments and
Speaker 1: they don't want to give up their little thing.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean it's outside pressure now between capital
Speaker 3: and fanship has made this undeniable and it's going to happen.
Speaker 3: So to me, it's just like which side do you
Speaker 3: want to be on? And you want to be on
Speaker 3: the side that's you know, that's foot forward, that's sort
Speaker 3: of leading what the future looks like.
Speaker 2: I don't care. I mean, we sit on We're going
Speaker 2: to be going to be round nom matter what.
Speaker 3: We're talking to the audience, and we're talking to people
Speaker 3: who want to understan and need to understand and need
Speaker 3: to have the context. It's more just like, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't have a strong opinion whether it's private equity
Speaker 3: from any particular country, whether it's you know, who wins
Speaker 3: and who loses. Probably you know the amoratis are in
Speaker 3: there as well. Yeah, that's not to stop an American
Speaker 3: or North American Consortium.
Speaker 2: You know, Bill Gates, Bill Gates, it doesn't matter, you
Speaker 2: got all the money.
Speaker 3: It's more just like, let's have this happen already so
Speaker 3: that the product could be optimized, and so we don't
Speaker 3: have a brilliant group of players half dead from playing
Speaker 3: too long a season, playing a bunch of stuff in
Speaker 3: places that should have events that are hard to draw
Speaker 3: attention and fanship too. So that's to me the biggest
Speaker 3: missed opportunity. And I just like, we have to fix
Speaker 3: our third act.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have talked about that a lot, and we
Speaker 1: have to keep talking about it. And we're sorry if
Speaker 1: we bored you on that. But Caitlyn came in here
Speaker 1: red hot on it today.
Speaker 3: Caitlin, Well, we can't talk about the Tenus because nobody's
Speaker 3: we haven't watched very much of it.
Speaker 2: Well, we haven't watched a lot of it.
Speaker 1: And that just show me that my interest, even my
Speaker 1: interest level on it, it's it's it's hard to get
Speaker 1: back up. And I wanted to take I'll be honest
Speaker 1: with you, I wanted to take a break from watching
Speaker 1: tennis for the last week because I'd watched so much
Speaker 1: tennis over the last couple of months. Speaking of Asia,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Taylor Townsend's.
Speaker 2: Little whoopsie doopsy.
Speaker 1: She's getting a little bit of flak over on her
Speaker 1: Instagram TikTok or whatever.
Speaker 3: T Tanden went to China and made fun of all
Speaker 3: of their food.
Speaker 1: It was a couple of things that she particularly made
Speaker 1: fun of. Not gonna lie, it didn't look great either.
Speaker 1: But I think lived in China. I've lived in China.
Speaker 1: I have eaten everything in China. Have you eaten those
Speaker 1: things that she one of them? I bogs on sticks.
Speaker 1: I ate every kind of meat.
Speaker 2: You eat?
Speaker 3: That frog that she was talking about, I've been frog, yeah,
Speaker 3: in China, both.
Speaker 2: Frog in fact. And how was it just out of curiosity?
Speaker 2: Not to my taste?
Speaker 3: But is it like snails out of As a parent,
Speaker 3: you teach your kids not to yuck somebody else is young.
Speaker 3: It's sort of like a fundamental thing about life. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: what are you doing, bro, especially when you're gonna get
Speaker 3: everybody's sympathy on your side for having been on the
Speaker 3: receiving end of a you know, nasty outburst from ilen
Speaker 3: Asta Penco. Like, do I think this is a capital offence?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: But I don't like when any American goes anywhere. You know,
Speaker 3: you talk to like the John Isners of the world
Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, I hated going to Europe because
Speaker 3: they don't have a olive garden, and you're like, that's
Speaker 3: embarrassing for you, that's embarrassing. So like show some curiosity
Speaker 3: about the space you're living in and maybe don't make
Speaker 3: fun of it. I you know, I'm not ready to
Speaker 3: like get on Taylor Townsend too much about this, but
Speaker 3: I just think like Nobo lived in that part of
Speaker 3: the world, and part of the cool thing about tennis
Speaker 3: is it takes you all the different places very much.
Speaker 3: Is anybody forcing you to eat any of this?
Speaker 2: No, listen, Yea said.
Speaker 1: I went to lunch with Kichita Matinez in Barcelona this
Speaker 1: one time, and she was ordering all this food.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you this for a reason.
Speaker 1: She was ordering all this food and then she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: try this this and I ate it and she goes,
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's pig's blood, and I go, excuse me.
Speaker 1: I was like, first of all, you could have told
Speaker 1: me that, but it was like this like patty thing
Speaker 1: of whatever, and she told me what it was and
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to die. But it's like,
Speaker 1: I think the problem is when you have a platform,
Speaker 1: and when you have a large platform and you go
Speaker 1: on your tiktoks and your instagrams you have and look,
Speaker 1: we've all done it.
Speaker 2: We've all fucked up.
Speaker 1: We've all put shit out that we probably regret putting
Speaker 1: out at some point you included Caitlin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of Eastern Europe doesn't love me.
Speaker 1: And for good reason. Fair, for good reason, we've all
Speaker 1: done it. But you have to recognize if you have
Speaker 1: a big platform, you have to say to yourself, what
Speaker 1: does this insinuate? And what am I.
Speaker 2: Saying in this situation?
Speaker 1: And yes, maybe most people don't want to eat frogs,
Speaker 1: but at the same time.
Speaker 3: Most people from North America maybe exactly, so you have
Speaker 3: to from North America.
Speaker 1: But to your team, dinners, Ye, go to your team dinners.
Speaker 1: I've been to many at BJK Cup and you can
Speaker 1: laugh about stuff and say whatever you want to your
Speaker 1: fellow teammates and your team, but you have to be
Speaker 1: real careful what you put out. And I'm I'm sure
Speaker 1: she is obviously knowing that right about now, but yes, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, is it is it going to Is it going
Speaker 2: to change the world?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Did she mean was she being mean about it?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Was she being a terrible person?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: But you just have to be real careful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I just like full philosophically, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: yuck somebody's young, Like, what's the point of that. But
Speaker 3: I do think that that gives us a nice transition
Speaker 3: into speaking of platforms, which is the.
Speaker 2: Rise of.
Speaker 3: People in the digital space making content, particularly players. We
Speaker 3: have two new podcasts. Some of the most popular podcasts
Speaker 3: now in the space are the Andi Ratic Served podcast.
Speaker 3: I talked to Jessica Testa for The New York Times
Speaker 3: about why I think that's a successful one and why
Speaker 3: I think a lot of these outsider shows, even if
Speaker 3: they're hosted by pros, are super additive to the space.
Speaker 3: And then right off the back of that, obviously we
Speaker 3: have nothing major with four you know, former pro male players.
Speaker 3: Now we have the Player's Box, which is you know,
Speaker 3: Mattie Keys, Jess Pagoula does Jenny Brady crab.
Speaker 2: Check and Anny Brady.
Speaker 1: Then the Williams Sisters yes getting into the mix actually
Speaker 1: today launching their show on Days which I'm do.
Speaker 2: You think your audience will be the same as this.
Speaker 2: I probably Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I think people I love your enth No
Speaker 1: think here's the thing, this is what between.
Speaker 2: To our audience size.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, but I think people who like tennis content are
Speaker 3: and also we know from podcast consumption habits, people don't
Speaker 3: just listen to one thing.
Speaker 2: No, they don't.
Speaker 1: And I think that's like when we you know, we're
Speaker 1: not sitting here going oh andy Roddick is going to
Speaker 1: take our audience or you know, Serena and Venus nos.
Speaker 1: People love tennis and people want different voices in tennis,
Speaker 1: and you know a Venus and Serain are going to
Speaker 1: talk about the nuances of the Asia swing.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: No, I hope to learn so much more about them.
Speaker 3: I think they're so fascinating. Like some of the things
Speaker 3: I always wanted to know more about is, you know,
Speaker 3: the fact that they live in France, the fact that
Speaker 3: they are art collectors, like oh yeah, the fact that
Speaker 3: they're going to learn.
Speaker 1: A lot more obviously things about them that I know,
Speaker 1: but also that they should know about them to make them,
Speaker 1: you know, not just seeing as these incredible athletes.
Speaker 3: I got I got asked this a lot, like in
Speaker 3: the last couple of years. There was an Italian magazine
Speaker 3: that started about tennis called Dropshot. There was a British
Speaker 3: magazine that started called Bageld. There's a fun quarterly zine
Speaker 3: in Portland called Tennis Portland Tennis Quarterly. Like to me,
Speaker 3: the fact that Racket sits alongside other really cool titles
Speaker 3: from different parts of the world, Like I read all
Speaker 3: of them, like it's cool. I collect all of them.
Speaker 3: I don't you know, I don't view Bigel as a threat.
Speaker 3: I view it as like, oh, this is cool. This
Speaker 3: is like a British gay man's fashion magazine that sits
Speaker 3: alongside my more sort of literary magazine that sits alongside
Speaker 3: like yes, and and I think for me, the whole
Speaker 3: thing that I've sort of been talking about, which is
Speaker 3: why I want us to so desperately fix the calendar,
Speaker 3: is because tennis is getting it to do. It's getting
Speaker 3: all of these different voices that it's always deserved, it's
Speaker 3: getting all of these different media formats, and so to
Speaker 3: me it is additive.
Speaker 2: Do I like all of them? No? But like here's
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 3: I don't want to yuck anybody's young, like you, like
Speaker 3: you don't want to lean into that great.
Speaker 1: And they don't realize that it takes its work and
Speaker 1: it's not easy to like get people together and do
Speaker 1: the do the thing. And so we hope all of
Speaker 1: these tennis podcasts are successful because that just makes that
Speaker 1: that that just makes our sport even more.
Speaker 2: They will each bring in it's dimensioned sport.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And whether those those fans listen to other things
Speaker 1: Lislead other things, I can't imagine they want. I was
Speaker 1: just on asy Fuds, fud Around and find Out podcasts
Speaker 1: last week, which, if anyone knows, easy Fad. She use
Speaker 1: a Yukon basketball player on the national Natty team last
Speaker 1: year that won the national title. She's going back to Connecticut.
Speaker 1: She's a huge like people you know love her and
Speaker 1: she's going to be a superstar in the WNBA when
Speaker 1: she decides. She'll probably go number one after the season.
Speaker 1: And she's doing a podcast and I was on that
Speaker 1: she wanted to talk about tennis. She wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, her time at the US Open. She also
Speaker 1: wanted she was also thinking, you know, it's a nice
Speaker 1: audience because I come from a sporting background, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So hopefully people that listen to that are also like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch a little tennis or maybe go
Speaker 1: to WNBA game that are tennis fans. There's like it's
Speaker 1: that you can cross promote different sports, and I think
Speaker 1: it's it's only going to make it better. So one
Speaker 1: interesting thing, Caitlin, that we do want to talk about
Speaker 1: also is that Kadjikova and sinney Kova a playing doubles
Speaker 1: together in Korea.
Speaker 3: This is Barbara Kadjugova, who has won two slams in
Speaker 3: singles and multiple in doubles with Caterinette Sineyakoba. Yeah, who
Speaker 3: is a fan favorite. I mean people love Kaiya Sniakova.
Speaker 3: She's a gold medalist.
Speaker 1: Well, arguably the best doubles player of the last ten
Speaker 1: five to ten years.
Speaker 3: I think this is a smart move. They're both excellent doubles.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me though, that they're going back to
Speaker 1: play together because they're playing in a small tournament, so
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's it's interesting to me, so I listen, huh,
Speaker 1: I've done this a few times in my career. But
Speaker 1: at certain points of the year you start looking at
Speaker 1: next year, who you're going to play doubles with next.
Speaker 2: Year, So you're saying you are predicting it.
Speaker 1: Well, what I'm predicted thinking that this is an interesting
Speaker 1: little rekindling of a doubles team. And I know Jacoba
Speaker 1: has not done well in her doubles career since breaking
Speaker 1: up with snow Kova. They played together since the very
Speaker 1: young age, like early teenage years, like twelve thirteen, and
Speaker 1: then they played together their whole career and one, you know,
Speaker 1: so many Grand Slams together. You know, Look, Kat has
Speaker 1: had success with Taylor, having won two I believe two
Speaker 1: Grand Slams, he Strain Open, Wimbledon, but probably not the
Speaker 1: success that she is used to.
Speaker 3: You're saying she would have won that Gabby Debrowski Aaron
Speaker 3: rautleth Us Open final had she been playing with her.
Speaker 2: I don't know that think of it that that. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that this is interesting. I'm
Speaker 1: just putting it out there. We'll see what happens at
Speaker 1: this train Open who ends up playing together. Clearly, Taylor
Speaker 1: and Kudjikov have been a great team. They have already
Speaker 1: qualified for the WTA finals in Riad and so I
Speaker 1: don't know, stay tuned on that, because it just doesn't
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense to me that they would
Speaker 1: play together unless.
Speaker 2: Tournaments at the end of the year. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if I'm breaking.
Speaker 1: News or if this is just a maybe Taylor didn't
Speaker 1: want to go one off here because she was scared.
Speaker 2: Of the food. Well she's not in Korea, because that's
Speaker 2: what he's saying. Maybe she didn't want to go.
Speaker 1: She's playing Billy jing Kin Cup and the checks not
Speaker 1: in it, which is a rarity because they usually dominate.
Speaker 2: So I don't know throwing that out there.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting little situation, and I might be just
Speaker 1: jumping to a massive conclusion. And if I am, well,
Speaker 1: then so be it. Let's talk about my old player friend,
Speaker 1: plishkober back playing in Lisbon for remember one in Lisbon,
Speaker 1: and she won her first round in like three hours.
Speaker 1: I did speak to her after the match and she
Speaker 1: said her body was feeling pretty good actually, which is nice.
Speaker 2: But it's great to see her back.
Speaker 1: Former world number one, came so close to winning a
Speaker 1: major at the US Open and she lost a Cerba
Speaker 1: made the semi finals a couple of times, so for me,
Speaker 1: it's just nice to see somebody who had a terrible
Speaker 1: injury and then came back from that terrible injury when
Speaker 1: she was really playing well, made the finals of Wimbledon,
Speaker 1: all the things, and then and then something crazy happened
Speaker 1: with her foot at the US Open and she just
Speaker 1: stopped in like the first game, and then we haven't
Speaker 1: seen her since. So it's just nice to see her back.
Speaker 1: I'm really happy. You know, how much success is she
Speaker 1: going to have coming back.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's so many great players, but listen, with her foehand
Speaker 1: and her serve, she can get back. So I just
Speaker 1: I just on a us on note. I'm really happy
Speaker 1: to see her back playing. And we've had a couple
Speaker 1: of teenagers when yovic Eva is Yeah, Eva Jovis seventeen,
Speaker 1: seventeen teenagers is seven and zero on the WTA Finals Guadalahara.
Speaker 2: She won Guadalajara. What an effort. She's such a great
Speaker 2: little player tenacity, plus.
Speaker 3: She did not have the world's most stacked field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a smaller tournament, but just the
Speaker 1: fact that she won her first WTA tournament, it's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: So I want to give her big kudos. Seventeen years
Speaker 1: of age and has an amazing competitive head on her shoulders,
Speaker 1: so well done to her. We will be back next week,
Speaker 1: hopefully talking about things that are a lot more interesting.
Speaker 3: Than You can't shit on the entirety of our conversation
Speaker 3: not being interesting now.
Speaker 1: It's more along the lines of, like, it's this conversation
Speaker 1: we've been having for so long. I just want us
Speaker 1: as a tennis community to do better about promoting.
Speaker 2: The sport after but how do you do that when
Speaker 2: it's in Asia?
Speaker 3: It's I don't think the problem is Asia. I think
Speaker 3: we need tennis in Asia. I think the problem is
Speaker 3: we have to cut out a whole lot of other
Speaker 3: stuff that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: You've got the top player in the world pulling out
Speaker 1: of a WTA one thousand, like three weeks before it's
Speaker 1: even happening.
Speaker 2: That's what are we doing right? And to me, it's
Speaker 2: not the fact I've got Ego playing in Korea.
Speaker 3: I think the problem is not that these tournaments exist,
Speaker 3: and the problem is not where they exist. I think
Speaker 3: the problem is that there's too much stuff and we
Speaker 3: have mis the product.
Speaker 2: It lose a product.
Speaker 3: There's too much stuff and it's time and I think
Speaker 3: that's why we keep having this conversation because it doesn't
Speaker 3: get fixed. But also I think because now more than ever,
Speaker 3: the tours are the weakest they've ever been. In my opinion,
Speaker 3: the Grand Slams are the strongest they've ever been because
Speaker 3: they're the ones that command all the audience. The athletes
Speaker 3: themselves have individual platforms that dwarf most of these smaller tournaments,
Speaker 3: and I think they actually have to create a feasible
Speaker 3: body themselves or decide to empower their own tours to
Speaker 3: really advocate in their bad interest. And I also think
Speaker 3: they have to start saying no to these dumb exos
Speaker 3: that don't mean anything. So for me, it's it's yeah,
Speaker 3: because it's the players needing to do it. And also
Speaker 3: the governing body is somebody just being an adult in
Speaker 3: the room and saying, Aliso, you have to the.
Speaker 1: Exos are taking weeks out of the calendar that you know.
Speaker 1: And then this is the one thing that ticks me off.
Speaker 1: It's like, and I know they're doing it for money,
Speaker 1: so it's like, good for them, get the money, get
Speaker 1: the bag, get the bag players, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you cannot complain about the tours and the weeks and
Speaker 1: how difficult it is and how many tournaments you have
Speaker 1: to play and I'm emotionally drained and blah blah when
Speaker 1: you keep playing them. But you're playing these exhibitions and stuff.
Speaker 1: And the difference is, Caitlin, you're playing exhibitions. Is no pressure, right,
Speaker 1: You're just playing for the money. You don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: You're like, you're not like stressed out about it. You're
Speaker 1: not waking up the morning going oh my god, I
Speaker 1: hope win today. I hope a wind today. You just
Speaker 1: like taking the money. But but at this like Davis Cup,
Speaker 1: not Labor Cup. No guys waking up going oh my god,
Speaker 1: I hope wind to day. I mean they want to
Speaker 1: win for their teammates. Yeah, they're not even playing regular tournament.
Speaker 1: They're not playing a regular set. They're not playing like it.
Speaker 1: It's just dumb. And so you can't complain about being
Speaker 1: exhausted at the start of the Australian Open or exhausted
Speaker 1: at the end of the year playing the ATP Finals
Speaker 1: when you're playing three other exhibitions leading into that event.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Don't complain out loud to the tours about the tours.
Speaker 1: When the tours the complaint should be you guys are
Speaker 1: letting us play exhibitions.
Speaker 2: They should be saying no.
Speaker 3: Like you said no, somebody's going to see now, and
Speaker 3: you know, hopefully it's the pressure is greater than ever
Speaker 3: from outside.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm that guys on playing Billy Jean king Cup.
Speaker 1: They're doing the right thing. I think you have to
Speaker 1: support Billy Jean king Cup and Davis Cup. I think
Speaker 1: they're very important for I think they're very important for
Speaker 1: the nation of the sport, the camaraderie for the sport
Speaker 1: I do. I love I Maybe I'm talking from a
Speaker 1: personal standpoint, but I think they're really important and they're great.
Speaker 1: Let's just figure out a way to make these team
Speaker 1: things and these exhibitions work better for everybody.
Speaker 2: On that note, thanks for joining us this week.
Speaker 1: Send your complaints to Caitlin send them to send them
Speaker 1: to Caitlin.
Speaker 2: Thanks, Thanks everyone, See you next week. Bye mm hmmm.