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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We don't know where this classic episode

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Speaker 1: finds you in this wide world of hours, but chances

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Speaker 1: are you probably clocked the weather unless you are in

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Speaker 1: a biosphere situation like poly shore.

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Speaker 2: At the very biodome. Biodome, bio biosphere. It's a domosphere.

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Speaker 2: They're very similar. I guess a dome dome is half

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Speaker 2: a sphere.

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Speaker 1: It's half a sphere.

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Speaker 2: It's a HEMI in beer feed Well, speaking of weather

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Speaker 2: and being locked into situations, it's also a good kind

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Speaker 2: of basic way of getting to know somebody in an elevator.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, about the weather. Back in the day, talking

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Speaker 1: about the weather used to be idiom in English for

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Speaker 1: having boring small talk. However, as we know, the weather

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Speaker 1: has become increasingly I was gonna say, Shyamalan s y

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of plot twists. It was talking

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Speaker 1: with our guest producer Matt the Madman Still a little

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Speaker 1: while back, Boom about how difficult is one of us

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Speaker 1: double birds when you said that, yeah, classic classic, Still

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Speaker 1: we were talking about how difficult, and you and I

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Speaker 1: were talking about this too, how difficult it has been

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Speaker 1: on the road for me, especially to dress and prepare

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Speaker 1: appropriately for wildly different weather.

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Speaker 2: That's right. You are on your third leg of a

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Speaker 2: month long journey, only the second for me. But I

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Speaker 2: was really grateful we came from New York.

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Speaker 3: Set.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm sorry. I got to do the Matt Berry thing.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 2: I like this false words, absolutely true. Which it's very, very,

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Speaker 2: very cold, as it is in our home city of Atlanta, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: so we had to pack for super cold weather. It

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Speaker 2: was actually snowing the last day we were in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 2: and then we got here to Doha, Qatar, where it's

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Speaker 2: very hot. But then last night we went out and

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Speaker 2: it was so freaking windy. We were very grateful that

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Speaker 2: we had some of those holdover cozy duds leftover from

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Speaker 2: our time in New York.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and Matt, Matt, I hope it's okay that I

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Speaker 1: say this. Matt was freezing as we were waiting at

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Speaker 1: the taxi stead and I think both and our pal

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland tried to give Matt our coats, and Matt,

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Speaker 1: if you recall you said, no, this pain will teach me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I did this to myself, and I deserve this,

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Speaker 2: and it's not nobody deserves that.

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Speaker 1: And I wondered whether the weather was making Matt crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good, Ben, that's pretty good. You know, we

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Speaker 2: have things like seasonal depressive disorder, the SADS. Right, there

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Speaker 2: are parts of the world where it stays dark all

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Speaker 2: the time during certain times of the year, or some

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Speaker 2: places year round, and it can cause people to get

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Speaker 2: this condition where they have this depression that's literally brought

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Speaker 2: on by the weather, and oftentimes they have to employ

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Speaker 2: the use of kind of artificial lights, this kind of

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Speaker 2: technology that will create a light that is meant to

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Speaker 2: mimic sunlight so that they don't get mega bummed out.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the long standing belief throughout various cultures,

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Speaker 1: throughout various eras of history that the cycle of the

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Speaker 1: moon and the stars may affect not just someone's personality

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Speaker 1: at birth, but their behavior. You know, we've all heard

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Speaker 1: I don't know how common this is, perhaps in other

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Speaker 1: parts of the world, but in the United States, we've

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Speaker 1: all heard anecdotes about the full moon driving people crazy,

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Speaker 1: about hospitals becoming inundated with folks who just went full

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Speaker 1: werewolf without the hair.

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Speaker 2: That's right, of course, the idea of a werewolf's transformation,

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Speaker 2: of course, being brought on or triggered by a full moon.

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Speaker 1: It's something. Yeah, howling at.

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Speaker 2: The moon tends to be a stand in expression for

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Speaker 2: kind of losing it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And so back in twenty nineteen with our brother Matt Frederick,

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Speaker 1: we asked, can the weather really make you crazy?

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. Why don't we roll the tape?

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Speaker 3: Ben?

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Speaker 1: What do you say?

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies? History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined, as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission control decond. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are You are here, and that makes this stuff. They

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. How you feeling today, Matt, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Feeling feeling well. It's finally colder here, so much colder

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Speaker 3: than it has been that I get to wear my

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Speaker 3: you know, my black leather gloves and my big black

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Speaker 3: jacket in my black hat when I'm driving, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like some kind of anti super serial killer hero.

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Speaker 1: Side know. Paul Michigan control deck and just chimed in

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Speaker 1: with serial Killer. I don't know if I made it

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Speaker 1: on the mic.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think it did. But that's why it

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Speaker 3: was a super serial Killer hero.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Driving with your balaclava on.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it just feels good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I believe this is one of the states where

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Speaker 1: it is technically illegal to operate a motor vehicle wearing

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Speaker 1: a mask.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard about that?

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Speaker 3: Probably, but they haven't caught me yet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't see how that would apply to things

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Speaker 1: that require helmets, like motorcycles and so on. Anyhow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I also felt the strange switch. Suddenly we woke up

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Speaker 1: and it was fall, you know, or maybe we skipped

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Speaker 1: fall and it's just winter now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's getting pretty close.

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Speaker 1: And you know, like many people dealing with the rapidly

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Speaker 1: changing climate, we are just covering a paradigm shift in conversation.

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Speaker 1: Remember those old halcyon days where it was considered boring

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Speaker 1: or small talk to talk about the weather when we

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Speaker 1: were growing up. That's something old people and boring people did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think maybe we're just a little older

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Speaker 3: and more.

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Speaker 1: Boring that that is a valid that's a valid assertion.

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Speaker 3: It's happening more frequently in my life at least.

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Speaker 1: Or I would say, I would say a valid proposition,

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Speaker 1: because I would I would argue that now that the

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Speaker 1: weather is becoming so unpredictable and wildcard esque, we all

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Speaker 1: tend to talk about the weather more because we have

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Speaker 1: to check in, because no one knows what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: You know, now a valid concern it is?

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Speaker 1: It is it used to. We're no longer shooting the breeze.

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Speaker 1: We're we're ensuring people's safety and livelihood. You don't know.

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Speaker 1: If you ask somebody what the weather, what the weather's

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Speaker 1: like in their part of town, they might say, well,

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Speaker 1: the tornado has gained sentience, which we were not expecting.

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Speaker 1: But scientists say that's because we didn't recycle or something

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Speaker 1: like that. You sure, I'm not exaggerating a bit, But

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Speaker 1: today's episode is in a way about the weather. It

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Speaker 1: is in a way about the environment, because whether you

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Speaker 1: live in the frozen wilds of the Arctic North, or

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Speaker 1: the sweltering climes of the Tropic or the you know,

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Speaker 1: objectively perfect environment of Hawaii, you've doubtlessly had one of

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Speaker 1: those weird conversations about weather with outsiders. You know, yes,

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Speaker 1: says somebody in the upper reaches of Scandinavia. Sometimes the

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Speaker 1: sun sets at four pm here. Other times it's dark

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Speaker 1: for you know, weeks on end, or the sun just

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Speaker 1: doesn't leave at all. It's normal for us. And while

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Speaker 1: weather across the planet can vary to a wide degree,

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Speaker 1: it is pretty impressive that our species, most of whom

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Speaker 1: were largely identical to one another in terms of physiological requirements.

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Speaker 1: It's impressive that we can all exist for long periods

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Speaker 1: of time in these very different conditions. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think and.

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Speaker 3: Our cultures have kind of been tailored in a lot

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Speaker 3: of ways to these different weather patterns and the climates

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Speaker 3: in which we've you know, existed. Yeah, religions are born

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Speaker 3: a lot of times early on at least out of

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Speaker 3: these patterns.

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Speaker 1: Good call, right. Yeah, we're tool makers, we're arrogant, we

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Speaker 1: are explainers, and we are woefully satisfied with our own explanations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but we're also feelers because we've got a lot

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Speaker 3: of chemicals that float around in us that cause us

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Speaker 3: to feel ways, or at least they affect the way

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Speaker 3: we feel about things sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I was thinking about this too with the

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Speaker 1: old Robert Frost poem Tree at my Window. You remember that,

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Speaker 1: I do, so there's this line tree at my Window

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Speaker 1: is obviously it's about this tree that Robert Frost is

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Speaker 1: really digging at the time, or to be fair, the

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Speaker 1: speaker of the poem, if not, you know, maybe he's

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Speaker 1: faking it. Maybe he didn't have a tree.

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Speaker 3: It could be a character.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it's like a metaphor for nuclear war is

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Speaker 1: something who knows, right, Well, there's this thought in the

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Speaker 1: last two lines where he talks about the tree experiencing

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Speaker 1: outer weather and himself again the speaker of the poem

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Speaker 1: being concerned with their own inner weather. And today's episode

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Speaker 1: is about that. I love that you set up the

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Speaker 1: idea of all these neurochemicals and reactions just bouncing willy

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Speaker 1: nilly and unseen in every person's brain box. Because today's

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Speaker 1: episode does not center around climate change, it's about a

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Speaker 1: more primal question people have been asking for the very

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Speaker 1: least centuries. That is, how does the outer weather the

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Speaker 1: environment affect our own inner psychological weather. Can something in

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Speaker 1: the air, some lack of sunlight or some overabundance of

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Speaker 1: moonlight really make us for lack of a better phrase,

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Speaker 1: hesitate to say it, but go crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yes, let's say act abnormally to ourselves, at least to

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Speaker 3: ourselves in the ways we've come to see ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts.

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Speaker 3: There is a common wisdom that floats around the internet,

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Speaker 3: has been around for a long time that whether in

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Speaker 3: some ways can affect people's moods, how they feel, whether

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Speaker 3: or not they're excited to wake up in the morning,

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Speaker 3: or you know, if they're feeling a little sad now

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Speaker 3: and then. And there is this idea it is. It

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Speaker 3: has a name that is kind of delightful, but at

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Speaker 3: the same time it's just delightful to speak of. It's

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Speaker 3: called SAD Seasonal effective disorder SAD. Yes, And we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about that a little bit later on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just planning the seed for sad. We're planning

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Speaker 1: the sad seed.

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Speaker 3: It will be fruitful later on. Now, there's an unrelated

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Speaker 3: idea that my wife and I have talked about a

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Speaker 3: lot of times because of her involvement with children in

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Speaker 3: a school environment, of whether or not the moon can

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Speaker 3: actually affect us as well, the amount of light that's

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Speaker 3: being reflected upon us by the moon. Really, that's what

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Speaker 3: they're talking about where the moon is and how much

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Speaker 3: light is being reflected. Can this make us feel different

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Speaker 3: than stable? Perhaps?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, This is an ancient idea and it goes

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Speaker 1: in a couple of different directions. The ancient idea is

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Speaker 1: the concept that the moon maybe not so much the

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Speaker 1: light sometimes light. Sometimes it's just the idea that a

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Speaker 1: more visible moon means a moon is physically closer. This

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Speaker 1: dates back all the way to philosophers like Aristotle and

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Speaker 1: the often hilariously incorrect historian Plenty the Elder. From the

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Speaker 1: Roman historian, they thought that the brain was the moistest

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Speaker 1: organ in the body, and that they're for like the oceans,

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Speaker 1: it was the most susceptible to the insidious influences of

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Speaker 1: the moon because of the way the moon can affect

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Speaker 1: the tides and the oceans. And this went through this

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Speaker 1: idea which Gaina's ancient has gone through many different iterations

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Speaker 1: and names. Sometimes it was called the lunar lunacy effect

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Speaker 1: or the Transylvania effect, and the belief, you know, survived

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Speaker 1: the fall of the Roman Empire, survived the fall of

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Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks in the Middle Ages, when people when

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Speaker 1: it was just commonly accepted that some people turn into wolves,

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Speaker 1: you know, some people are in league with infernal powers

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Speaker 1: and they turn into wolves. And that's just how the

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Speaker 1: cookie crumbles, right They they of course thought that the

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Speaker 1: moon had these unholy influences, even on people who say

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Speaker 1: their prayers at night, you know, and the whole wolf

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Speaker 1: Spain reference.

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Speaker 3: The full moon is a weird thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird thing.

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Speaker 3: Back in the nineteenth century, there is even this thing

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Speaker 3: that you could argue in court, that you could argue

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Speaker 3: that somebody was not guilty by reason of the full moon.

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Speaker 3: Let's say, if you're a defense lawyer and you're representing somebody,

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Speaker 3: and they would make their claim that this quote unquote

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Speaker 3: lunatic client was you know, not accountable for whatever he

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Speaker 3: or she did because the full moon was there. And

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Speaker 3: we all know how the full moon affects us, especially

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Speaker 3: when we're turning into wolves and such. Just kidding. This

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Speaker 3: is now the nineteenth century, so we've moved beyond werewolves,

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Speaker 3: not fully, but we moved a bit beyond werewolves.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen hundreds Eastern Europe people believe people were still certain,

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Speaker 1: you know, and in less you know, in less densely

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Speaker 1: populated areas in the world, today, belief in physical shape shifters.

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Speaker 1: It's still around, you know, it's not as popular.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean, and there's well, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: to be said there on the full moon. There's there's

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Speaker 3: a ton of things here about how the full moon

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Speaker 3: can possibly affect us.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the interesting part, right where wolves a

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Speaker 1: side ancient romacide. The belief in this relationship between the

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Speaker 1: moon waxing and people acting unstable persist in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: You'll see the lunar cycle blamed for everything from spikes

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Speaker 1: and suicide attempts and psychiatric hospital emissions, to emergency room

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Speaker 1: calls and reports, to traffic accidents, to dog bites and

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Speaker 1: more and more and more and again.

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Speaker 3: Just hanging it back to my wife and just for

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Speaker 3: a second, she believes this is kind of her theory

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Speaker 3: or her hypothesis, is that the amount of light of

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Speaker 3: shining down on a darkened earth at any given time

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Speaker 3: can affect sleep patterns, the way a a child or

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Speaker 3: an adult falls asleep, how long it takes to fall asleep,

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Speaker 3: how well they're able to sleep, just because of an

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Speaker 3: increased amount of light within a room, unless there are

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Speaker 3: blackout curtains or something like that she thinks that can

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Speaker 3: have an effect on the next day.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, I see, Yeah, it's a disturbance in circadian rhythm,

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Speaker 1: right that. I mean, that's a good argument. I would

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Speaker 1: want to hear the opinion too, of how that if

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Speaker 1: light is if light is the cause there ultimately of

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Speaker 1: some sort of disturbance in otherwise normal behavior. Is it

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Speaker 1: dependent on the type of light? Is that what creates

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Speaker 1: the disturbance? Because now we live in a place where many, many,

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Speaker 1: many people have artificial lights, whether they're even just computer

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Speaker 1: screens to television screens on while they sleep. So are

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Speaker 1: you know, as a disturbed circadian rhythm the new normal?

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Speaker 1: I could definitely see it being a really solid proposition

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Speaker 1: in the days before for electricity, you know, I like,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe the disturbance has changed over time because of

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Speaker 1: the rise of electric lights.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I would just say from you know, not

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Speaker 3: to get into an argument about this, but within at

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Speaker 3: my home, the moon's light comes into our windows at

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Speaker 3: my house to such a significant effect that it looks

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Speaker 3: like we've got lights on outside when there's a full

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Speaker 3: moon compared to when there's even a half moon or

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Speaker 3: you know, lesser.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel that's pushing closer to like anthropy.

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Speaker 3: Or not sure, but I but it certainly does affect

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Speaker 3: my ability to get to sleep and just personally. And

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Speaker 3: I just wonder how much of an effect that would

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Speaker 3: be outside of computer screens, outside of you know, artificial light.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's that's again, that's one of my big questions.

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Speaker 1: There would be the type of light you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Is uv thing? Is it something in the

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Speaker 1: LED displays? People are still debating about this, and there's

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Speaker 1: an interesting scientific quibble here. Psychiatrists across the planet and

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Speaker 1: certainly throughout the West, including people like Miami psychiatrists Arnold Lieber,

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Speaker 1: have argued have argued less about light and more about water,

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Speaker 1: the idea that, just like Aristotle and Plenty said, the

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Speaker 1: full moon has an effect on behavior because the human

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Speaker 1: body is almost eighty percent water. So again, maybe the

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Speaker 1: moon is disrupting something about the way water functions in

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Speaker 1: our nervous systems. Specifically, other people, not just psychiatrists, tend

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Speaker 1: to agree, and large groups of people tend to agree

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Speaker 1: that the moon does something wonky to human beings or

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Speaker 1: is This survey a few years back that said around

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Speaker 1: forty five percent of college students believe, yes, the moon

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Speaker 1: can affect human behavior in increasing their likelihood of doing

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Speaker 1: something unusual for them. The thing is all case by

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Speaker 1: case unusual for them. For someone, unusual might be staying

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Speaker 1: up till three am and eating a pint of ice cream.

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Speaker 1: For other people, unusual, maybe you know, robbing toys r US.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of things that aren't around so

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Speaker 1: we don't get any angry letters.

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Speaker 3: That's a good choice of toys r us or radio

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Speaker 3: shack somewhere there we go be a Blockbuster and kept

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Speaker 3: its stores unlocked.

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Speaker 1: A media play, there are still seers in Alaska. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that weird there? You? So this this is interesting because

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Speaker 1: this isn't just cherry picking one survey. Other surveys seem

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Speaker 1: to indicate that mental health professionals might be more likely

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Speaker 1: than the average person to believe in this relationship, and

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Speaker 1: sectors of law enforcement. They should not surprise anybody, whether

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Speaker 1: you yourself are an l e O or whether you

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Speaker 1: have one in your friend group of your family. A

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Speaker 1: lot of members of law enforcement share this belief. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of Back in the nineteen seventies, the International

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Speaker 1: Association of the Chiefs of Police put their money where

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Speaker 1: their mouth is. They commissioned a study to discover whether

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Speaker 1: there was in a scientific basis to the belief that

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Speaker 1: the full moon makes people Let's not say crazy, let's

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Speaker 1: say weird.

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Speaker 3: What do we know what they found?

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's

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Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Oddly enough, multiple studies, not all

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Speaker 1: the studies, but the majority of studies conducted in this

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Speaker 1: field or toward this question, have found no discernible scientific

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Speaker 1: evidence that the full moon has any sort of physiological

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Speaker 1: effect on the human mind. So we can bust the

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Speaker 1: water myth first. Before we get to that, Please note

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Speaker 1: everyone the way we phrase that finding that the full

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Speaker 1: moon does not have any sort of physiological effect on

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Speaker 1: the human mind that is different from a psychological effect. Right,

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Speaker 1: So there's a dilemma there. But we're pretty sure as

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Speaker 1: a species that if the moon has some sort of

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Speaker 1: some sort of deletorious effect on human beings, it is

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Speaker 1: not due to the water content of our bodies.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to the Scientific American with some quotes that

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Speaker 3: list the problems with this whole water gravity theory. Is

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Speaker 3: the moon actually changing the water inside of us? It

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Speaker 3: says quote First, the gravitational effects of the Moon are

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Speaker 3: far too minuscule to generate any meaningful effects on brain activity,

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Speaker 3: let alone behavior. As the late astronomer George Abell of

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Speaker 3: the University of California, Los Angeles noted, a mosquito sitting

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Speaker 3: on your arm exerts a more powerful gravitational effect on

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Speaker 3: us than the moon does. Now, that's intense. This is

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Speaker 3: me being outside of the quote. That's an intense fact.

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Speaker 3: If it is indeed a fact, and it was said

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Speaker 3: by a former astronomer, so we must believe it. Let's

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Speaker 3: continue on. Yet, to the best of our knowledge, there

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Speaker 3: have been no reports of a mosquito lunacy effect. So

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Speaker 3: there's a little biting remark there. Let's go on. Second,

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Speaker 3: the Moon's gravitational force affects only open bodies of water,

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Speaker 3: such as oceans and lakes, but not contained sources of

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Speaker 3: water such as the human brain. Aha.

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Speaker 1: Pretty rock solid, it really is.

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Speaker 3: It is contained within our skulls.

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Speaker 1: This last one's the most interesting, yes. Quote.

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Speaker 3: Third, the gravitational effect of the moon is just as

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Speaker 3: potent during new moons, when the moon is visible to us,

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Speaker 3: as it is during full moons. So aha, the light

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Speaker 3: of the moon is a more likely candidate for affecting us.

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Speaker 3: I'm just kidding, but it is sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, let's find out going back to water.

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Speaker 1: What this means is that the perception that we have,

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Speaker 1: while it does hold its own internal logic, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's some analog there. The moon affects water in certain

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Speaker 1: ways or in certain you know, situations, then why not

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Speaker 1: the human brain. What's so special about the water and

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Speaker 1: the human body? Nothing except temporarily its location. This means

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Speaker 1: that if we want to dive into the belief there's

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Speaker 1: some sort of causal relationship between the moon and specifically crime, right,

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Speaker 1: if we want to look at law enforcement data, then

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Speaker 1: we will need to reject the water myth or the

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Speaker 1: water part of the moon myth, and we'll need to regard,

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Speaker 1: at least to some degree, the huge amount of anecdotal

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Speaker 1: evidence from police officers across the planet because a lot

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Speaker 1: of these folks wholeheartedly believe in this, but maybe not

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Speaker 1: the way you think, because often, you know, people who

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Speaker 1: work in law enforcement are trained to apply critical thinking,

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Speaker 1: so they will, hopefully they're paying attention and training be

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Speaker 1: some of the more skeptical members of society at large

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Speaker 1: So let's consider the work of a guy named David Hunter.

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Speaker 1: David Hunter was a retired deputy from Knox County, Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: In his book The Moon Is Always Full, he collected

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Speaker 1: multiple stories of police officers relaying strange events let's call

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Speaker 1: them lunar war stories, things that happened while they were

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Speaker 1: on duty during the full moon. However, a Hunter does

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Speaker 1: not believe that there is a physiological mechanism at play here. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he believes it is squarely something in the sphere of

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Speaker 1: the psychological. He says that the moon crime relationship, or

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Speaker 1: perception thereof, is a matter of self fulfilling prophecies. And

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Speaker 1: he notes he says, hey, you know, most cops, they

405
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Speaker 1: are adrenaline junkies. If nothing happens on a graveyard shift,

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Speaker 1: they get disappointed. So the full moon gives a cop

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Speaker 1: a reason to investigate things he might usually ignore.

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Speaker 3: Ah, so just the fact that it is a full moon.

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Speaker 3: The police officer thinking to him or herself, Oh, it's

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Speaker 3: a full moon. I gotta check this out.

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Speaker 1: Right right right, I've seen the movies, I've seen the tropes,

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Speaker 1: or you know, it's it's similar to I guess bader

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Speaker 1: Minehoff to where you know, you hear turn the beat

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Speaker 1: around once and then or you think of the song

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Speaker 1: and then you feel like you've heard it three times

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Speaker 1: in the past forty eight hours. But have you or

417
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Speaker 1: were you just noticing more?

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Speaker 3: You know? Are you using turn the beat around as

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Speaker 3: like a verb like I did a thing I turned

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Speaker 3: the beat around.

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Speaker 1: I mean the song, Okay, but yeah, you turn the

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Speaker 1: beat around if you'd like.

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Speaker 3: You know, But but you know, this doesn't take into

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Speaker 3: account like I'm just imagining. I'm not poopooing hunter writing here.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying there's a difference between investigating, like having

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Speaker 3: something to investigate, and choosing to investigate something. And so

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Speaker 3: I guess what I'm trying to say is a police

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Speaker 3: officer generally is going to respond to calls that come through,

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Speaker 3: especially a you know, uniform police officer that's in a

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Speaker 3: patrol vehicle or is on patrol. They will get called

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Speaker 3: to a thing to investigate something, or they will observe

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Speaker 3: something and investigate it. Right, those are generally the two

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Speaker 3: ways in which a report is going to get generated

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Speaker 3: for you know, something that the police officer did that evening.

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Speaker 1: I see where you're going.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how them choosing to or not to

437
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: investigate something would differ with the.

438
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 1: Moon, because that would also happen. What I think you're

439
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: raising is a fascinating point because in the order of operations, right,

440
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: the chain of events, their decision to whether or not

441
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: to investigate something aka do their job, occurs after something

442
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: has already happened. Right, So they are reacting to an event.

443
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 3: Hopefully rather than just going out there.

444
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: And I guess I better start something, right I doubt that.

445
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: I doubt that, but I see what you're saying. It's

446
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: very important because then that means that their decision has

447
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: very little to do with whether or not there is

448
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: a higher a higher number of incidents during the evening

449
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: of a full.

450
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: Moon, right, Yeah, one would have to come before the other.

451
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Okay, and interesting too because I know I feel like

452
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: you're a big proponent of the light argument. Well what

453
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: about when a full moon is out during the day?

454
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it's observable, Oh man, crazy pandemonium.

455
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 3: Kids everywhere are like the moon.

456
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think. I don't know if anybody else remembers this,

457
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: but I remember very clearly the first time I saw

458
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: the moon during the day, and I thought the jig

459
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: was up. I thought it was the end, you know

460
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: what I mean. I was like, well, the quality is

461
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: going to fall off a little bit at the end,

462
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: so we got a good run.

463
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: Well, it is a weird that is a weird thing.

464
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 3: I wonder how universal the concept is. I think there's

465
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: a sense growing up that the sun is out or

466
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: the moon is out. Oh yeah, right, yeah, and the

467
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: moon is out at night and the sun is out

468
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: at day, and you cannot have both because how could

469
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 3: it be night and day. That's not a thing, that's

470
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: not possible. But then you, you know, begin to realize

471
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: that the sun and moon, like all things, are a

472
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 3: sliding scale or a spectrum of almost all things. It's

473
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: this weird it's this weird function of reality night and

474
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: day or just part of the same wheel man.

475
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. So let's let's go back, because we

476
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: do have to point out, in all fairness to the

477
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: retired deputy Hunter that he is, by his own admission,

478
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: not a scientist. He is collecting this in a way

479
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: that's very similar to the way someone would collect folklore,

480
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So let's go to members

481
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: of academia, members of the Ivory Tower, the capital a academy. Finally, Finally,

482
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: University California, Irvine criminology professor Kris Kubrian calls this perception

483
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: amongst el eos a kind of confirmation bias, adding that

484
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: the officers are looking for evidence that confirms their pre

485
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: existing belief. Pre existing is a phrase I inserted into

486
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: that quotation. So let me not mislead you, fellow listeners.

487
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: This is something personally, and it's just one person's opinion

488
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: that I could get behind because we know that happens.

489
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: We know this happens often to everyone. We we build

490
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: coincidences or we curate coincidence in a way that most

491
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: aids and a bets our own narrative. So you could

492
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: go through a troublesome traffic light fifty times, right, and

493
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: maybe it's always green, right except for the twelve times

494
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that you happen to catch it when it's red light,

495
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: and then by time eleven you're like, this light sucks.

496
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: This happens all the time. How much of my life

497
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: have I spent here waiting at this pos traffic light?

498
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: And then you know the way other people work. If

499
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: you say that, especially if you complain about traffic, other

500
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: people are not gonna go What is wrong with you?

501
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: That light is awesome. I looked at my stats for

502
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: that light, and buddy, I am green sixty five percent

503
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: of the time. No, they're gonna go. Yeah, man, traffic

504
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: lights blow. I don't know what it is. It's like

505
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: they should just paint them red because the color never changes.

506
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: There are very few of us, but there are a

507
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: few of us who would take the side of the

508
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: traffic light just by default because somebody's complaining.

509
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I I I don't want

510
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: to get too far into this, but I've been involved

511
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: in some of the traffic light conversations. Do you know

512
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: how easy those systems are to hack? Yeah? It is frightening, dude,

513
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: It is frightening. How uh how little effort it would

514
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: take to totally collapse some traffic systems in cities here

515
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: in the US. We're supposed to be a developed country.

516
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: Well, in Atlanta, it takes about three broken lights to

517
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: just screw up the whole thing.

518
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, we all call it a day at

519
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: that point. That's why. Yeah, it's it's pretty it's pretty rough,

520
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: especially especially the neighborhood we work in. It's funny. I'm

521
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: doing a I'm doing an episode later this week spoiler

522
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: alert for our show car Stuff, which has hit.

523
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: The road again.

524
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: And one of the one of the things we're gonna

525
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: look at is the cost of traffic. Like, traffic is expensive.

526
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Forget millions, forget billions. It costs

527
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: like trillions of dollars a year. Yeah, but dude's strategic traffic.

528
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: If you've got a business that's on like a major road, Yeah,

529
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: traffic is the stuff, man, I was thinking of that. Okay,

530
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: this is a terrible idea. I want to preface this. Okay,

531
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: this is a terrible idea. No one do it. It's

532
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: not cool. Okay, but it would work. Oh god, I

533
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: added that at the end. So, we have a lot

534
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: of traffic jams. Right in other cities, you'll see people

535
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: who wait at traffic jams to sell things, right, yes,

536
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: So what if we had our worst traffic jams here

537
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: in Atlanta tend to be on interstates. What if we

538
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: had some kind of like side scooter type things that

539
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: could go out when traffic is stopped, when it's gridlocked

540
00:31:54,120 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: and sell snacks, sell beverages, non alcoholic sell you know,

541
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: do dads flowers toys. It's like a rolling convenience store

542
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: on the highways, on the highway, on the shoulder of

543
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: the highway and places where again like four thirty to

544
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: seven thirty, it's the only time they're open. Yeah, because

545
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: that's the only time traffic is slow enough for these

546
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: people not to get killed. Yeah, now here are the

547
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: three reasons is a horrible idea. One, I would want

548
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: to operate it as a nonprofit and give the money

549
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: to disadvantage people, which is never gonna fly with Atlanta's government. Two,

550
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about sending people out in traffic. Even if

551
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the speed is zero that could very quickly become sixty

552
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: and then we're just like one scrape up away from

553
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: the whole thing collapsing.

554
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I bet you could charge a premium on this.

555
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: This is my solution, right, because people are stuck in traffic.

556
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 3: They can't escape on some exit because they know if

557
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: they go escape on the exit to hit up whatever

558
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: fast food joint or let's say a racetrack or QT

559
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: or insert your gas station seven to eleven here, they

560
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: know it's just gonna take even longer to get back

561
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 3: on the highway. They won't be able to get where

562
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: they're going. But if somebody, let's say, was on the

563
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: side of the road and they could make it to you,

564
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: if they could get to your car door your window,

565
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: roll it down and that's all you gotta do. Roll

566
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: down your window and swipe your card and you can

567
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: have let's just say, some something as simple as some

568
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: chips and an ice cold beverage. They will pay you

569
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: like movie theater prices, for sure. And if they're paying

570
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: movie theater prices, not only can you pay for your

571
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: staff and they'll have a pretty nice wage. You'll be

572
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 3: able to donate a good chunk of that the way

573
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: you wanted to donate it.

574
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: Again, the city governor will never let it happen. But

575
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: I like what you're saying because then also think about this, well,

576
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: the last prop the last problem. Of course, I think

577
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: I have a solution too. But the last problem is

578
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: one of the biggest ones, which is it would further

579
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: ruin cripple traffic to have everybody trying to get to

580
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: the shoulder at a stopping point. You know, of course

581
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: there it's a very self centered species, so there will

582
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 1: be a lot of people in the middle who are like, hey,

583
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: forget you, buddy, bring that RBS to me. I got

584
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: things to do. Uh, it's true, But here's the solution

585
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: instead of people, When we just send drones out.

586
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 3: That was good. That was literally the thing.

587
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, drones you just need reliably for them to operate

588
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: at peak efficiency, you'd need a sun roof though, so

589
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: it's already kind of for the elite.

590
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: I mean it would be anyway if you're gonna pay

591
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 3: movie theater prices for anything.

592
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: Right, I guess there aren't a lot of people who

593
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: are just scraping by so they could save up for

594
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: their drone.

595
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: Chilupas drone chilupas man.

596
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: You know what, I apologize for derailing us here. Let

597
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: us know what you think of this idea. Met You're kind,

598
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: you're you're kind of turning me back into a proponent

599
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: of it.

600
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: You know, I would, I'd get in in this venture.

601
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: Cool. I think I agree with you. Also, if we

602
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: partner up with a fast food franchise, since we're already

603
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: ruining the world with drones, then we could we could

604
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: get them to sink some of the overhead costs for us.

605
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: You know, there's this fast food chain that makes chicken sandwiches,

606
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: not the one you're thinking about. It's that one from Louisiana.

607
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: If you had them with their chicken sandwiches. Oh my goodness.

608
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: Food for thought, literally food for thought. Let's let's go

609
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: back to Sorry, I got us to traffic for folklore

610
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: the moon, But let's go back to the Academy capital A.

611
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: There's another professor who attributes this perception, this causual perception

612
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: between the moon and extraordinary behavior to folklore rather than

613
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: to science. Professor Elizabeth Loftis says she will not outright

614
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: condone a correlation between the moon and craziness, but she

615
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: does concede that quote. Maybe mentally ill people get weirded

616
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: out by the full moon and behave in strange ways.

617
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: If this is the case, then what we might be

618
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: perceiving as a weird effect of moonlight or gravity or

619
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: water what have you, may in fact just be a

620
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: collection of isolated incidents wherein people who were already unwell

621
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: were somehow triggered by a specific environmental event. And in

622
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: these cases, maybe it just happened to be the moon.

623
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: Maybe we're not paying enough attention to other things like

624
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: an eclipse, people go nuts steering and a clip you know,

625
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: for one reason or another. Back to what you said

626
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: about religions. Some religions are founded on being able to

627
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 1: predict an eclipse and then go absolutely ham when one happens.

628
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: They are wonderful, they are, they are, you know, if

629
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: you can get a spot where you get totality. Ah,

630
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: but the moon is the moon alone, is not the

631
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: weather nor the environment entire So we mentioned sad earlier,

632
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: but what exactly is it? How does it work? We'll

633
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsors.

634
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: And we are back. So let's get sad everybody. Sorry,

635
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,479
Speaker 3: oh sorry, So let's let's discuss seasonal effective disorder. It's

636
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 3: it's more rare than probably the media would want you

637
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: to believe or has made us believe, but it is

638
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: indeed very much a real thing. And let's just talk

639
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: about what it means. Seasonality or this disorder is reported

640
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: by approximately ten to twenty percent of people with depression.

641
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: So that's somebody who already is feeling depression or having

642
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 3: depression and they are either saying this is a part

643
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: of it or the entirety of their depression. The changes

644
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: in season. Then fifteen to twenty two percent of those

645
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: with bipolar disorder also, you know, report that seasonality or

646
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: seasonal effective disorder is also affecting them.

647
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: Right right, Like, I know what my my variation may

648
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: be in mood and emotion values peaks and valleys exactly,

649
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: and even correcting for that, I notice some enormous valleys.

650
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: And there are some fascinating real reasons behind some of

651
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: this stuff. That Again, as we're talking a little bit

652
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: more about the chemical in our bodies and how those

653
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: change this stuff, it goes deeper and it speaks to

654
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 3: our connection, humanity's connection to the sun.

655
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: Oh sure, Yeah. According to the Mayo Clinic, SAD or

656
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: seasonal effective disorder, it's a type of depression that's related

657
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: to changes in the seasons. It begins and ends around

658
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: the same couple of times every year. And if you're

659
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: like most people with this condition, your symptoms start in autumn.

660
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: They begin in the fall, they continue into the winter months.

661
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: You are lethargic, your energy is sapped, you feel moody.

662
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: Less often, we have seen cases of people reporting SAD

663
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: in the other direction in the spring or early summer.

664
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: The signs and symptoms are going to be very familiar

665
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: for anyone who has had these wintry blues before. You

666
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: will feel depressed most of the day, almost every day.

667
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: The stuff that you enjoyed, video games, volleyball, cyber bullying, Twitter,

668
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: people or whatever, you don't enjoy it anymore. You have

669
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: low energy. But even though you feel tired all the time,

670
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: you cannot sleep. You also don't enjoy a lot of

671
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: the food you used to like.

672
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: A lot of people report that they feel agitated when

673
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: they're experiencing this, or sluggish, having a difficult time concentrating,

674
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 3: like let's say, if you're at school or at work,

675
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 3: just can't really wrap your mind around one thing. Feeling hopeless,

676
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 3: sometimes feeling guilty or worthless. Again, these are a lot

677
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 3: of these symptoms of just overall depression, too, having frequent

678
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: thoughts of death or suicide.

679
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: And there's some science to this. As you would as

680
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: you had said, Matt, we know that when your body,

681
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: as long as you qualify as a human being, when

682
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: your body is exposed to less sunlight, it produces more melatonin.

683
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: Melatonin is the hormone that makes you sleepy. It's pretty

684
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: popular in the West as a sleep eit nowadays. Then

685
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: there's also a pretty solid idea called the phase shift hypothesis.

686
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: The phase shift hypothesis proposes what we had just talked

687
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: about earlier in the beginning of the show, and it

688
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: says that shortened days cause the timing of our circadian

689
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: rhythms to fall out of sync with the actual time

690
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: of day because there's this delay in the release of melatonin.

691
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: And just as your body, your flesh bag, begins craving

692
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: these mid day naps, your brain begins producing lower levels

693
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: of serotonin.

694
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 3: Oh, the good one.

695
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tickle, that's what I call it. Yeah, your

696
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: brain stops making the tickle that is with a capital T.

697
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: So your mood, your appetite, your sleep, your sexual desire,

698
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: none of them scratch the itch anymore. You don't get

699
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: the tickle. What's the point of living if you don't

700
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: have the you know, if you don't enjoy the way

701
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: stuff taste, if you're not excited about doing something, you're

702
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: just sort of getting a participation grade.

703
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the tickle of it's of the highest import and

704
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 3: that stinks to have it deadened, a little bit nullified

705
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: in a way. Yeah.

706
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 1: And how like, for instance, I'm a I'm a person

707
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: who goes through i mean dark times pretty regularly. No, yeah, right,

708
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: so me too. Yeah, I think that's one of the

709
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: reasons we get along for well. But but we did.

710
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: We did find the science here, and then we not

711
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: only found the science, we found beyond the microcosmic neurochemical

712
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: mechanisms of every individual brain. We found that societies wherein

713
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: people regularly experience this deprivation of light to an extreme degree,

714
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: the societies have banded together and created group solutions or

715
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: attempts at group solutions for sunlight deprivation. That's why a

716
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: lot of people living in the Arctic Circle, a lot

717
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: of people living in against Scandinavian countries that have the

718
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: infrastructure to support community solutions like this, they've done some

719
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: groundbreaking work with light therapy and we found some pretty

720
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: cool examples of this too.

721
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. There's an Atlantic article called will Norway Ever

722
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 3: Beat the Winter Blues that you shared Ben and in

723
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 3: here it talks about a southern town in Norway called

724
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 3: Rijukun or rjuka n And it's kind of in a

725
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 3: bit of a valley between two large mountains, and during

726
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 3: certain times of the seasons there the sun basically hits

727
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 3: the peaks of the mountains are high up on the mountains,

728
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: but doesn't actually ever get down into the valley, so

729
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 3: it doesn't actually ever touch the town for long periods

730
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 3: of time. And they figured out a way to get

731
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: these large, i think seventeen meter wide mirrors that reflect

732
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 3: the sunlight from the higher peaks of that mountain down

733
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 3: into the town square. And it's a fascinating idea. It's

734
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 3: genius and very simple in a way, but just the

735
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: concept of bringing a little bit of light into the

736
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: town square so that people during midday, like I think

737
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: it was noon to two or something like that, people

738
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 3: can go out and experience sunlight in a time when

739
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: they haven't felt it on their skin in days, if

740
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: not weeks. And another thing interesting that's happening in that

741
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: town in the surrounding areas as well. There's a company

742
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 3: called brain Lit. It's a Swedish company, and what they

743
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 3: do is they outfit a whole building, sometimes a classroom,

744
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: sometimes a home with smart lighting that mimics day and

745
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 3: night cycles essentially. So the idea here is to get

746
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 3: a human being circadian rhythms back on track just by

747
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: having their eyes experience the light and the feeling on

748
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,959
Speaker 3: their skin, all those things have it occur indoors rather

749
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: than outside being affected by the sun.

750
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: And then again we return to the nature of the light. Right,

751
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: it's a specific type of light, correct.

752
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's HCl and led the two solutions they have

753
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: and they call it biocentric lighting. It's really interesting stuff

754
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 3: if you want to learn more. We are not promoting

755
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: this company or this brand, but it's called brain lit

756
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 3: b R A I N L I T dot S

757
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: E slash e N. That's where we were looking about

758
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 3: looking at.

759
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: It, and we know that the research in this field

760
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: is continuing. Light at least affects us more than we

761
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: might like to believe. This is not hey, I'm going

762
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: on record, man, you know I respect you. This is

763
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: not me agreeing with the light hypothesis re luncy. This

764
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: is not okay. This is not me agreeing with that

765
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: because I just I couldn't find any science to bear

766
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: it out. But that doesn't mean it's not true. It

767
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: just means maybe the science hasn't caught up with the

768
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: human belief yet.

769
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: I told you, just my belief. I don't got no science.

770
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: But it might be out there and it's worth searching

771
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: for in some people with bipolar disorder. We also know

772
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: that spring and summer can bring on symptoms of mania

773
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: or a less intense form of mania hypomania, and fall

774
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 1: in winter can be a time of deep depression. Here's

775
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: another here's the ultimate answer. Though not just counting lights,

776
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 1: which is only one part of our environment. Let's think

777
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: of the weather all the other things. The weather is wind,

778
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: barometric pressure, ymidity, things like that.

779
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: Pressure is a big one.

780
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: Pressure is a huge one. And it turns out that

781
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: everyday weather can change your mood. If you are already unhappy,

782
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: if you're already having a bad time, don't worry. Weather

783
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: can make it worse. If you're in a good mood,

784
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: you are more you are less susceptible to changes in

785
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: environment or changes in weather affecting you environ mental state.

786
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: I'll go with this. I've got stuff to add. I'll

787
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: bring it back later.

788
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: Let's go through this, Okay, So first things first. Two

789
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: thousand and eight study associated with the APA American Psychological Association,

790
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: published in the journal Emotion, indicates the weather can indeed

791
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: mess with you if you're already feeling down in the dumps, morose, sad, etc.

792
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: Researchers evaluated the personalities and moods of more than twelve

793
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: hundred adults through these daily questionnaires, so they're self reporting, right,

794
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: a little sticky. But these these questionnaires were cross referenced

795
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: with the local weather during the day when they answered

796
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: these questions, and they found that relate like climate factors

797
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: like temperature, sunlight, wind, precipitation, and so on, had no

798
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: impact whatsoever on positive mood. But the temperature, wind, and

799
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: sunlight did have a measurable effect on negative mood. And

800
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: when we say negative, we're using it in a colloquial way,

801
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: not the scientific way. Negative and science means absence of

802
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: here it means bad. So yeah, right, So increased temperatures

803
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: had a positive effect on bad moods, while increased wind

804
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 1: and decreased sunlight had a worsening effect on a bad mood.

805
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: Although these effects did vary from one individual to another

806
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: in terms of the degree of change, like how extremely

807
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: or profoundly they were affected, it did bear out across

808
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: again more than a thousand people, that there was some

809
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: sort of correlation. And additionally, this is just the lead

810
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: we're going to drop, we're not going to follow up. Additionally,

811
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: there are a surprising number of studies into the core

812
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: between high temperatures and crime and from what we can tell,

813
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: it is real when the heat spikes, more crimes occur.

814
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 3: Hot time somewhere in the city. My friend, back of

815
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 3: your neck, right, but no, but it's true. And from

816
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 3: what I was reading just this morning, you know, the

817
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: science isn't necessarily in on that, but it does make

818
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: sense on a very base level. If it is warm

819
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: outside and it is warm inside, a lot of people

820
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 3: will probably be going outside. There will be more people

821
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: on the street, There'll be more people, you know, mulling around.

822
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 3: There will be more people with bikes, more people making

823
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: a trip with their briefcases or whatever they're carrying with

824
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 3: them that may have something in there.

825
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: Perhaps more opportunity for crime.

826
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: More opportunity like more victims, like potential victims in an area,

827
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: and also more people who are not hold up in

828
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: their house because it's cold and rainy. Who would be

829
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 3: the potential mugger or burglar or whatever. It does feel

830
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 3: like there's a real correlation there, Like if you just

831
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 3: imagine yourself if it's cold and rainy, making the decision

832
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: to go out and do something nefarious, versus if it's

833
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 3: hot and you've got nothing else to do and very dry.

834
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 3: I don't know it, feel it feels, it feels real.

835
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: So there we have it. Though we know that the

836
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: weather is not conspiring against us, because the weather itself,

837
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: as far as we know, is not sentient, right, And

838
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: if we go down that route, we end up at

839
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: the guy a hypothesis, which is a fascinating thought experiment.

840
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: It's super organisms at all. While there is no currently

841
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: while there's no scientific proof that a full moon affects

842
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: the human brain and the way that folklore tells us

843
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: to does, the strength of confirmation bias and self fulfilling

844
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: prophecy might render that exact same science moot, because some

845
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: people may be having stability issues during the full moon

846
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: just because they believe that's what happens. We all grow

847
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: up in a world where full moons are portrayed as

848
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: harbingers of doom or eeriness in works of fiction right

849
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: dating back centuries, so of course we believe it. We've

850
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: been brought up to believe that some medical law enforcement

851
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: professionals may be suffering from their own illusory pattern recognition.

852
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 1: But it also seems like they are a little bit

853
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: more likely than the average Jane or Joe whatever to

854
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: believe in this correlation because they feel they've personally experienced it.

855
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: And while the moon may not affect your mind, the

856
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 1: sun most certainly does in ways that you might not even.

857
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: Notice, as can barometric pressure bring in about some pain.

858
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: It affects my dog. If my dog feels barometric pet

859
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 3: pressure changing, especially if it's lessening, she gets all freaked

860
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 3: out because she knows the storm's coming. It's crazy. Yeah,

861
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 3: and it's in. It's like half an hour to twenty

862
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: minutes before a storm starts. It's weird.

863
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

864
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts.

865
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: It's right let us know what you think.

866
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: You can reach.

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00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 2: You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

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00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: Facebook x and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy

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00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 2: Stuff Show.

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00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 3: If you want to call us dial one eight three

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00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes,

872
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

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00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 3: we can use your name and message on the air.

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00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: If you got more to say than can fit in

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00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

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00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

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00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: We are the entities the read every single piece of

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00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive, be aware yet not afraid. Sometimes the

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00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

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00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.