1
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.

2
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham and to Dight, I have Justin Webb.

3
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,479
Speaker 1: He's the executive director for the Foundation for Wildlife Management.

4
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 1: Welcome Justin.

5
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 2: Thanks Dirk. I appreciate you having me on.

6
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been I've been wanting to interview you for

7
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,480
Speaker 1: quite a while, even before I got on this podcast.

8
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: I've found what you and your organization are doing very

9
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 1: fascinating and I want I think it's important for people

10
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 1: to know about it. So anyway, I wanted to. I

11
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,919
Speaker 1: wanted to get you on here. First off, tell our

12
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: listeners a little bit about yourself.

13
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 3: A little about myself.

14
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a fashionate outdoorsman. Grew up off the grid

15
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 2: in the country in North Idaho. Spent most of my

16
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 2: life hunting and fishing and camping, hike in the back country.

17
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,119
Speaker 2: I raised a family, My kids are grown now, and

18
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,199
Speaker 2: I have been able to kind of pour my heart

19
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,400
Speaker 2: and soul into what has become the Foundation for Wildlife

20
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: Management and just feel blessed to be able to do

21
00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 2: something for a living that I would do for free

22
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: given the free times. It's really near and dear to

23
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,520
Speaker 2: my heart. The mission of the Foundation for Wildlife Management

24
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: and watching the negative impacts of the over abundance of

25
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:51,000
Speaker 2: wolves transpire over a ten year time frame was really

26
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 2: saddening to me.

27
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 3: And it's.

28
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 2: A travesty in some areas, some places that's not you know,

29
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 2: nearly as impactful, but sometimes very passionate about. I spend

30
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 2: countless hours tracking wolves, studying wolves, talking about wolves, seeking

31
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 2: out knowledge about wolves. There's not a whole lot about

32
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 2: my life anymore that doesn't doesn't involve wolves on some

33
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,359
Speaker 2: you know, way, shape or form. But uh, I'll say,

34
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 2: you know, prior to wolves, the majority of all my

35
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 2: time was spent chasing giant meal deer bucks in the

36
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,799
Speaker 2: back country and hunting elk, and that passion has kind

37
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 2: of been overrun with my passion for trying to save

38
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: what ilk populations that we have in the back country,

39
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 2: and that includes managing both populations.

40
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: And I love that if you can, can you give

41
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 1: a kind of a rundown on for our listeners, maybe

42
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 1: folks who are not from the West or the Northwest,

43
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 1: and kind of give them a brief snapshot of, uh,

44
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: what what's all the hubbub about wolves in Idaho? You know,

45
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,919
Speaker 1: I feel like if you get on social media or

46
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: any kind of forums, you can get a lot of

47
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 1: difference of opinion on the condition of how many wolves

48
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 1: there are in Idaho and some of these other western

49
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: states and how they've affected our elk and deer and

50
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 1: moose and other all the ungulets. Can you can you

51
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: kind of discuss like where it all started with the

52
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 1: wolves and kind of give everybody where it kind of

53
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: started and where we're at now.

54
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you bet.

55
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean I can share my own personal experience in

56
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:42,800
Speaker 2: my opinions.

57
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 1: That's great.

58
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 3: I can tell you.

59
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I had a wolf as a pet when

60
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 2: when I was growing up, we had a seven eights

61
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 2: wolf from eighth husky and I absolutely love that dog.

62
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: The the you know, the majority of my high school

63
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 2: trips into the back country, she went with me. Her

64
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 2: name was Dakota. Taught her how to pull a sled

65
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: and drag me around ice fishing, and she spent all

66
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 2: sorts of time in the woods with me. But the

67
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 2: problem was you couldn't control her, You couldn't keep her home,

68
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 2: you couldn't you know, keep her contained, and eventually things

69
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 2: just didn't work out there. Long story short, when I

70
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,359
Speaker 2: first heard that we had wolves coming to North Idaho.

71
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 2: I was super excited about it. I thought wolves were

72
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 2: the most amazing animal on the planet.

73
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:32,359
Speaker 1: You know.

74
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 2: I grew up watching National Geographic just like everybody else,

75
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 2: and had this huge, you know, just fascination with wolves

76
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,599
Speaker 2: and all that they quote unquote stood for. And there's

77
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 2: all this messaging throughout my life that you know, I

78
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,159
Speaker 2: had kind of soaked in about, you know, wolves being

79
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 2: not only an apex predator, but some I don't know,

80
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:59,279
Speaker 2: some resemblance of what humanity should have been or should

81
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 2: be to some degree. And so I heard we were

82
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 2: getting wolves, and I thought that was the greatest thing.

83
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 2: Couldn't wait to hear wolf howl in the back country,

84
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 2: couldn't wait to see wolf.

85
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 3: Tracks on the mountain.

86
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 2: And then wolves showed up, and all of a sudden,

87
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 2: everything I thought a wolf was I was questioning because

88
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 2: everything that I'd been taught a wolf to be was

89
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 2: not what I was witnessing in my backyard, in the

90
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 2: back country around me, on my elk hunts, you know,

91
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,360
Speaker 2: on my excursions out picking up shed antlers. You know,

92
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,040
Speaker 2: they everybody talked about wolves being good for the ecosystem

93
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 2: and the environment, and how only the alpha, male and

94
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,679
Speaker 2: female bread and they only killed the sick in the week,

95
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,840
Speaker 2: and they helped keep game herds healthy well. When they

96
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 2: first transplanted wolves to Yellowstone National Park and to the

97
00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 2: back country in North Idaho, again I was super excited

98
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 2: about it. They set it. They established a goal of

99
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,919
Speaker 2: three hundred total wolves within what they call the Northern

100
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 2: Rocky Mountain Distinct population Segment area. In that area, I

101
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 2: wish I could show you a map. It encompasses all

102
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 2: of Montana, all of Idaho, all of Wyoming eastern one

103
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 2: third of both Washington and Oregon, and the section of Utah. Well,

104
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 2: as with anything these days, the wolf topic was litigated

105
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 2: from all sides, all directions. It was explored, it was reviewed,

106
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 2: it was peer reviewed.

107
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 3: It was.

108
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 2: You know, basically run through the ringer. What wolves are

109
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 2: we supposed to have? How many are we supposed to have?

110
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 2: What impact is there going to be on you know,

111
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:58,360
Speaker 2: our dear elk and moose herds? So many different topics

112
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:04,360
Speaker 2: and aspects. Well, while story short, after years of arguing

113
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 2: about this stuff, they finally settled on three hundred total

114
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 2: wolves as a recovery goal and a management objective of

115
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 2: eleven hundred total wolves within that entire system. Now, a

116
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 2: lot of that management objective, all this data you can

117
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 2: find it in the twenty ninety listing rule in the

118
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: Federal Registry. But all of that data, the majority of

119
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 2: that data was based on how much suitable habitat that

120
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 2: we have four wolves within that in our MDPs area.

121
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 2: And one of my latest talking points, you can talk

122
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 2: to an elementary school kid and share with them the

123
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 2: concept that every living thing has to have a set

124
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: amount of food, water, shelter in space to be able

125
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 2: to thrive, and they can understand that. If you ask

126
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 2: them what happens if you have more animals than what

127
00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 2: you have food, water, shelter in space, known to biologists

128
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 2: as suitable habitat. Elementary school kid can tell you it's

129
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 2: a bad thing and that only negative can come from that.

130
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 2: So fast forward, we've gone from meeting our recovery goal

131
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,000
Speaker 2: in the year two thousand in just four years. Basically

132
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 2: it's time for states to take over management of wolves.

133
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 2: Lawsuits start to rise up. Takes us nine years to

134
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 2: get management of wolves into the hands of the states.

135
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 2: In that time, wolf populations just exploded. Reproduction rates were

136
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 2: extremely high, way higher than I think anybody really expected

137
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 2: by the year two thousand and nine, and then they

138
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 2: delisted them within that rule. The US Facial Wildlife Service

139
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 2: stated that should we maintain the fifteen hundred wolves that

140
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,840
Speaker 2: we had at that time, that that would deplete wolve's

141
00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 2: own prey base and cause chronic livestock depredation. A lot

142
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 2: of people think that, well, I should say not think.

143
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 2: A lot of people make this statement that nature will

144
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 2: balance itself, and I one hundred percent believe that, But

145
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 2: what they don't understand is what that looks like. So

146
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,240
Speaker 2: for those that don't know, you have a prey base,

147
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 2: and you have a predator base. As your predator populations

148
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 2: grow and expand, eventually it outweighs your prey base, causing

149
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 2: your prey base to collapse. Well, then all of your

150
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,200
Speaker 2: predators die from disease and starvation. In the case of wolves,

151
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 2: the majority of them disperse. Most predators don't travel the

152
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 2: way wolves do or the distances that wolves do. You know,

153
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,840
Speaker 2: there's been numbers of wolves that have been documented with

154
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,320
Speaker 2: caller data having traveled more than forty five hundred miles

155
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 2: before they take up residence somewhere. We've got wolves now

156
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,440
Speaker 2: that you know started here in Idaho and Yellowstone National

157
00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,120
Speaker 2: Park that have expanded all the way across washing to

158
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 2: the coast, all the way across to Oregon, all the

159
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 2: way down into California. Two wolves have been shot in

160
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 2: Texas that came from the North Country. Wolves just travel

161
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 2: way farther and way faster than what people realize. So

162
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 2: when we obtained the ability to manage wolves in two

163
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, we arrogantly thought, as passionate backcountry successful

164
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 2: elk hunters, that we were going to go solve our

165
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 2: problem as soon as we got a hunting season, And

166
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: we hunted our casters off that entire first season, foregoing

167
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 2: our dearn elk hunts afield just to target wolves, and

168
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 2: at the end of the year we hadn't harvested any.

169
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,880
Speaker 1: That's crazy, isn't it. That's very different than what some

170
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: the different picture than some might paint. They kind of

171
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 1: painted as a hunting seasons a slaughter of the wolves.

172
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: But I've always had a kind of a standing bet

173
00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:03,559
Speaker 1: that if anybody can, any wolf activist wants to bring

174
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: me a really good, high quality picture that's in focus

175
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: within you know archery range or even you know short

176
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,439
Speaker 1: rifle range out of the North Idaho country. If you

177
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,719
Speaker 1: can bring me a picture of that, I'd probably give

178
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 1: you a thousand dollars. And it's almost impossible. I mean,

179
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: you could almost find anything that'd probably be easier to

180
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 1: do than that.

181
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 3: It's pretty crazy.

182
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 2: You know, everybody talks about how we hunted and trapped

183
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 2: wolves to extinction, they don't realize that there was a

184
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: huge fear of wolves and so, you know, back when

185
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 2: we first decimated their populations, there were a full time

186
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,559
Speaker 2: you know, local state and government employees that did nothing

187
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 2: but pursue wolves. There was such a hatred of wolves

188
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 2: that everybody shot them on site. Those that didn't hate

189
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,319
Speaker 2: wolves feared them so much that everybody shot them on site,

190
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,679
Speaker 2: and that still wasn't enough to control their numbers, and

191
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 2: so they actually poisoned them. That's what happened to the wolves.

192
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 2: And they didn't poison them because they wanted to see

193
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 2: the animals suffer. They poisoned them because they couldn't figure

194
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,199
Speaker 2: out what to do to control their numbers that would

195
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 2: allow other populations a game and livestock to thrive.

196
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well, if you take a if we look

197
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 1: back in the you know, in history, for instance, the

198
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 1: journals of Lewis and Clark. When they came across the

199
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 1: Bitterroot Mountains, they nearly starved to death. They had to

200
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: eat their saddles, they ate candlewacks, they ate their horses.

201
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,199
Speaker 1: They were on death's door by the time they were

202
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 1: saved by the Nezpers Indians. And that country that they

203
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,199
Speaker 1: just traveled through back then, if you go there now,

204
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 1: it's very similar kind of country. I mean, there's not

205
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,000
Speaker 1: a lot of big game in those mountains anymore, because,

206
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I think because we let the wolves

207
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,079
Speaker 1: running unchecked up there for too long without any management practices,

208
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 1: and they ate and displaced a lot of elk and

209
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: deer and moose to where now it's pretty hard to

210
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: hard to find any animals up in that country, you know.

211
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,320
Speaker 1: And some of the wolf advocates will say, well, you know,

212
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 1: it's all about habitat for the deer and the elk

213
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: and the moose. But I think in two thousand and

214
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,880
Speaker 1: fourteen and maybe even a little earlier, we start getting

215
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: a lot of forest fires up in that country, burn

216
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 1: a lot of ground. It's fantastic habitat. It was great

217
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,400
Speaker 1: habitat before, but now it's even you know, it's everything

218
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: an elk could want, but they still haven't came back.

219
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you bet. So you can have all the habitat

220
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:50,199
Speaker 3: that you want.

221
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 2: If your predator population is that way in your prey base,

222
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 2: there's not a whole lot that you can do to,

223
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 2: you know, to change that without controlling the predator numbers.

224
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 2: Don't understand that, you know, as you mentioned Lewis and

225
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 2: Clark testimonies, journals and what they went through, that's what

226
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 2: nature balancing itself would look like. No, we spent one

227
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty years using the North American model wildlife

228
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 2: conservation to maximize our dear elk and moose or ungulate

229
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 2: populations for both consumptive use and recreational enjoyment. And I

230
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,200
Speaker 2: absolutely love going out and watching the elk calve in

231
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 2: the springtime, you know, glass and watching migrating herds looking

232
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,880
Speaker 2: for antlers in the spring. There's so much about wildlife

233
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 2: that people think that because you're a hunter, that you

234
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 2: obviously don't care about it, and it couldn't be further

235
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 2: from the truth. You know, I don't want nature to

236
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 2: balance itself. I want to maintain the abundance of wildlife

237
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 2: that I grew up with so that my kids and

238
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 2: grandkids get to have the experiences that I've been blessed with.

239
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So fast forward to modern day, and since we

240
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: kind of talked a little earlier about how hunting wolves

241
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 1: is just not a very good tool to manage their numbers,

242
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: but folks have found success trapping wolves and that's been

243
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,800
Speaker 1: used as a really good tool to try to keep

244
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 1: their numbers in check. Why is it so important that is?

245
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 1: Why is trapping such an effective method versus hunting?

246
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,400
Speaker 2: Well, I think to understand the gravity of that statement

247
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 2: that trapping is so much more of an effective method

248
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,040
Speaker 2: than hunting, it's important to look at the data. So

249
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, I went back in DIOD a

250
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 2: bunch of research and looking at tag sales and different things.

251
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 2: Seventy four thousand, forty one wolf tags were sold in

252
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 2: Idaho and Montana in twenty twenty one. Of that, four

253
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 2: hundred and eleven people actually used their tags, and forty

254
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 2: two guys took more than two wolves. The majority of

255
00:15:58,800 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 2: those were trappers.

256
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 1: Wow.

257
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 2: So you know, when you look and compare let's say

258
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 2: a thirty or thirty five percent success rate on an

259
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 2: l hunt, this we're talking about less than one half

260
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 2: of one percent success.

261
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 3: Rate on wolves.

262
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: Now, when I say that, a lot of people think, oh, well,

263
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 2: wolves must not get shot, and that's also not true

264
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 2: because approximately half of the state's harvest is via hunting.

265
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 2: The difference there being the majority of those wolves that

266
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 2: are taken while the guy is out deer el hunting

267
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 2: is from just that they're out deer elk hunting and

268
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 2: the wolves bump into them. It's not that there's you know,

269
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people who have successfully identified the means

270
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 2: to get themselves within rifle range of a wolf and

271
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 2: be successful harvesting them with a rifle. It's that there's

272
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 2: so many people in the woods during the fall hunting

273
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 2: season that wolves end up bumping into people. And so

274
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 2: I think that that's one aspect that's important to realize.

275
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 2: And the other part of it is folks don't realize

276
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 2: how far and fast wolves travel, and more recently, I

277
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 2: you know, it's almost a daily occurrence. If you follow

278
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 2: social media at all, somebody will be on a wolf

279
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 2: hunting page or something and they'll say, oh, we'll just

280
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 2: go find the elk and you'll find the wolves. And

281
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,399
Speaker 2: I wish that that was the case, but that's just

282
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 2: simply not how it works. You know, wolves are are wolves. Specifically,

283
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,119
Speaker 2: in Idaho, we've got an average pack size of six,

284
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 2: each having an average litter size of seven. Thirty percent

285
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 2: of our packs are having more than one litter because

286
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 2: more than one female gets bred. And you know, on

287
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 2: that data actually aligns right with Yellowstones Wolf report as well.

288
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 2: I was shocked the first time I saw multiple size

289
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,160
Speaker 2: pup tracks within one pack. I did not believe that

290
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: more than one female would be bred. And you know, again,

291
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 2: I guess that kind of takes me back to the

292
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 2: the reason that when some people get frustrated by folks

293
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 2: who are standing up for what they believe in, but

294
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 2: they're bashing hunters for harvesting wolves, it's a lot easier

295
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,240
Speaker 2: for me to have an open conversation and dialogue with

296
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 2: those people, you know, and give them some grace because

297
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 2: just like them, I believed everything they believed before wolves

298
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 2: were in my backyard. So kind of getting sidetracked. But

299
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 2: bottom line, you know, wolves are running a two hundred

300
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 2: and fifty square mile home range, often on a three

301
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 2: to five week cycle, and though it's real common for

302
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 2: them to run ten or twenty miles in a night. So,

303
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 2: you know, a guy will call me and they'll say,

304
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going up Johnson Creek and I'm you know,

305
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 2: I heard there were some wolf tracks up there this

306
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 2: last week, and I'm going to go hunt some wolves

307
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,439
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm so excited. I'm gonna go kill

308
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 2: and I you know, it's hard for me to help

309
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 2: them understand that Johnson Creek is ten miles long and

310
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 2: five miles across, and the evening those wolves passed through there,

311
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 2: those wolves hunted ten or fifteen basins of that size,

312
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 2: and you know, and now they're seventy five miles from there.

313
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's difficult for people to really grasp

314
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: how far and how fast wolves travel. So that brings

315
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 2: me to, you know, back to the topic in your question,

316
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: why is trapping so effective? Well, if I know a

317
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 2: wolf's going to come through here, somewhere in this two

318
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 2: mile stretch at some point in the next three to

319
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 2: five weeks, I can set a trap in the most

320
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:43,359
Speaker 2: likely location using their instincts against them, namely their territorial instincts.

321
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 2: Wolves consistently mark the borders of their pack boundary lines.

322
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 2: So if you can find one of their peposts and

323
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 2: set a trap on it. You know that at some

324
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 2: point in the next month, the wolf pack's going to

325
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 2: come back through there, and one of the mature wolves

326
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 2: is going to go over and mark that peace post

327
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 2: if they show up at one o'clock in the morning.

328
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: Different than hunting, I have a trap there that's still working.

329
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 2: There's still a trap there waiting for them when they

330
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 2: pass by. If I go out and try to hunt

331
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 2: a wolf, I'm trying desperately to identify what part of

332
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,199
Speaker 2: their two hundred and fifty square miles they happen to

333
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: be in on that day. Hopefully they're not traveling that day,

334
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,880
Speaker 2: and I can, you know, try to howl to locate

335
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 2: them and then getting close enough to capture their attention

336
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 2: and try to call them in. But the odds of

337
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 2: that are extremely low. Wose are the smartest animal I

338
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: have ever been around, and I have been actually putting

339
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: quite a few trail cameras out over the last several years,

340
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 2: and this year I finally got some just incredible video

341
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 2: footage of them, and it's it's just been such a

342
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: learning experience watching them learn from interacting with where my

343
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 2: sign and scent is in the woods. They're just such

344
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: an amazing animal. But yeah, you know, bar none trapping

345
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 2: is the most effective method that we have to manage

346
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: wolf combers.

347
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: Now I've heard you say this before. The average cost

348
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: out of pocket you have to spend per wolf to

349
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: trap one, And I'm gonna go ahead and let you

350
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: talk about that, but it's it's a lot more than

351
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,360
Speaker 1: the average person that hasn't heard that number may think.

352
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you bad. So you know, I'll start off, I

353
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: guess just in trapping similar to everyone else. When I

354
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: first started looking at wolf trapping, I i you know,

355
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: saw it out. What is the cheapest trap that's big

356
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 2: enough to hold a wolf that's on the market that

357
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: I can get my hands on. And I went out

358
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: and I bought a specific trap, and I bought three

359
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: dozen of them. And I went out and I put

360
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: in a whole lot of effort. I didn't catch anything

361
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 2: that year, but I put in a whole lot of effort.

362
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: I thought, well, you know, cost wise, I can make

363
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: snares for relatively cheap. I'll buy the cable, I'll buy

364
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: the walks, I'll buy the wire, I'll buy the stops

365
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: and the Farrells and the Suager and all these different

366
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: things to make snares and I'll try that.

367
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 3: It didn't do me any good.

368
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: I felt like I was chasing my tail for a

369
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: long time. Learned some hard lessons the first couple of years.

370
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 2: But you know, one of the best traps out of

371
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 2: the box on the market today is it's called an

372
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: Nobs wolf trap. And by the time you get chain

373
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,239
Speaker 2: and swivels and everything on it set up to go

374
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: in the field, you're looking at about seventy eight dollars

375
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 2: probably a piece. And then all of my traps, I

376
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 2: actually get a powder codd which is another fifteen dollars

377
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: on top of that, so you're you know, you're pushing

378
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: the hundred dollar mark by the time you try to

379
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: put a drag on the end of it, or even

380
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: by cheap earth anchor for it, so you're looking about

381
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: a hundred bucks a trap really realistically, by the time

382
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: you get done, you know you have to have bacon

383
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: soda to boil them in, to descent them, all these things.

384
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 2: So let's just say one hundred dollars a trap. Right now,

385
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 2: I've got one hundred and nine traps. I think that

386
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 2: I'm running, so that in itself is a pretty pretty

387
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 2: big expense. So in addition to that, fuel is by

388
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: far the number one expense out there, and one of

389
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: the biggest reasons is knowing that wolves travel a two

390
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty square mile home range. My best odds

391
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 2: of having wolves near a trap are to get on

392
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: the boundary lines of multiple packs, and so my trap

393
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 2: line consists of about seventy five to eighty miles of backcountry.

394
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: The majority of that is now run on my snowmobile,

395
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: but even when I can drive it in the early season,

396
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: that's a long ways in the mountains. You know you're

397
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 2: and you're not going to be getting twenty five miles

398
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: to the gallon by any means. So by law in Idaho,

399
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: I have to be at every trap every seventy two

400
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: hours during the hunting season. When there's this huge influx

401
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: of people in the woods, it's really difficult, I'll say,

402
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: not to go at least every other day. And the

403
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: biggest reason is because people don't seem to understand the

404
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 2: importance of trapping, and so they've been tampering with traps.

405
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: They you know, bump into them in the woods and

406
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: they're afraid of them. They don't understand how they operate,

407
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: and so we've ended up with, you know, a little

408
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: bit of conflict, people sticking sticks and traps or I've

409
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: had don't know thirty five hundred dollars worth of worth

410
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 2: of traps stolen over the last five years or so.

411
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: But just the fuel bill alone, you know, I calculated

412
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: it up and for each of the forty two wolves

413
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: I've got, it's still pushing the fifteen hundred dollars mark

414
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: just for fuel because I have to be in every

415
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: trap set every seventy two hours. Well, when that pack

416
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: comes through and they're not going to be back for

417
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: three to five weeks, sometimes eight weeks, I still have

418
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 2: to be there every third day, regardless of what the

419
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 2: pack's doing. And so, you know, a guy that really

420
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: puts some effort in, if you trap really hard from

421
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: the opener in September all the way through the end

422
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: of March, you're doing really good. If you pick up

423
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: five or six wolves. You know, there's guys out there

424
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: that are really good at this, but those people are

425
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: very few and far between. So you know, the expensive

426
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: fuel alone is very extravagant, and a lot of people.

427
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: Don't understand that.

428
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy. Now I've seen some of your posts

429
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: on social media about folks tampering with traps, stealing traps,

430
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: taking wolves out of your trap, shooting the wolf in

431
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: your trap. That's just not acceptable, is it?

432
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: Well, you know, everybody, it's kind of an interesting, interesting

433
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: dynamic that we're in right now, with how bad everybody

434
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: wants a wolf and how extremely difficult they are to

435
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: come by.

436
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: I genuinely believe that.

437
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: Most sportsmen go into the woods with a moral code

438
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: and some form of ethical belief. And I don't believe

439
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: that anybody out there, Darren l cunting or hunting anything

440
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: else for that matter, would intentionally steal from somebody if

441
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: they had any idea how much time and how many

442
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 2: hours and how much effort was put into establishing a trap,

443
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: set a trap line, identifying a legal place that you

444
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: can set a trap for a wolf back, that you

445
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: can convince a wolf to put his foot out of

446
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: his two hundred and fifty square mile home range. You're

447
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: convincing him to put his foot on a silver dollar.

448
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: And those spots are few and far between. Now, as

449
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: a trapper, I go out and I spend all summer

450
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: running trail cameras, scouting, hiking, howling to locate GPS and

451
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 2: scout GPS and scratch marks, taking my dogs and hiking

452
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: them through the territory so that they can show me

453
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: where their territorial pe posts are. There's a tremendous amount

454
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: of scouting time that goes into wolf trapping. I used

455
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: to think that I put a ton of time scouting meal,

456
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: deer and elk, because that was my passion for a

457
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: lot of years. I had no idea what a lot

458
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: of time was until I started trapping wolves. So you

459
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: put all this time and effort energy into it. You

460
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: find the one spot that you can access with all

461
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: that heavy equipment and get in and out of there

462
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 2: every third day when rain, hail, snow, blizzard trees down.

463
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: I had to cut four hundred and eight trees one

464
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: time to be able to get to my traps. Wow,

465
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: by wah, I still have to be there every seventy

466
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: two hours. You find that one spot, You go in there,

467
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: you scattered out, you put cameras up, You get the

468
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: wolves coming through, You learn when they're coming when they're not,

469
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: You learn when they're using that terrain. You go in there,

470
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 2: you set up. You have descented all your clothes, you've

471
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: descented all your tools, you've descented all your traps, You've

472
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: done all of this prep work. You get everything set

473
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: up just right. You go in, you set up, you

474
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: back out, you go back up, and you check every

475
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: third day, every second day while there's people in the woods.

476
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: And one day you show up and there's a big

477
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: blood mark, and it's obviously you've caught a wolf. Somebody

478
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: has very often shot it. There's boot tracks right there

479
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: in the little bit of snow that's there, there's blood

480
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: and hair blown all over the ground. What that person

481
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: when they came around the corner and saw that wolf

482
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: in a trap and freaked out and was so excited

483
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: to shoot a wolf. What they don't understand is that

484
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: they just saved the entire rest of the pack. And

485
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: this is why if you get a wolf in a

486
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: foot trap and it's alive, the last thing the entire

487
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: pack knew was their buddy was standing right here, and

488
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: that night and or the next night, they're going to

489
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: be right there again. The hardest part about trapping wolves

490
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: is getting them to a set that's still operable. While

491
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: it's still operable, because the snow, the freeze, thaw, the

492
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: you know, whatevery different conditions and issues that we run into.

493
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: So if I get in there and I'm able to

494
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: dispatch that wolf quick clean, without scent, without blood, I

495
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: reset the trap and I back out of there as

496
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: fast as I can and leave that area alone. That night,

497
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: when the pack comes down, they're going to wander around

498
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: and I'm going to catch another one, and I'm going

499
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: to go back and repeat the process and I'll catch

500
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: another one. The most I've ever caught back to back

501
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: was six in a row.

502
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: Wow.

503
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: This year, I'm on a pack that's extremely educated. They

504
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: know my sin personally. I've caught numbers of wolves out

505
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: of this pack. They've learned to dig up anything where

506
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: I'm using wax dirt, which is kind of a new challenge,

507
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: but it's extremely difficult. So when I show up and

508
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: somebody has not only taken this wolf that I've busted

509
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: my butt for all year to try to get to harvest,

510
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: they've taken all of that work away from me, and

511
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: now I have to start over completely from scratch because

512
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: the pack's not coming back there. Once there's a bunch

513
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: of wolf blood all over the place, or the pack

514
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: has come in and seen a wolf dead there. A

515
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: lot of people think they're doing you a favor. They

516
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: come up, they see a wolf bouncing in a trap,

517
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: they get all I did, they shoot it. Then they

518
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: feel bad because then they realize, well, you know, I

519
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have done that. Well I'll just I'll leave

520
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: it here for the guy. I was trying to do

521
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: him a favor, so the wolf wouldn't get away, is

522
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: what they tell themselves, and they drive off. Well that's

523
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: just as bad, because then if that's not the night,

524
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: then I'm going to be back there. The pack comes in,

525
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: sees that dead wolf, and they leave, and they won't

526
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: come back to that spot. They now associate that area

527
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: to the dead wolf, and it's just eliminating my chance

528
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: of catching the rest of the pack.

529
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

530
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: So you know there's a lot that goes into that,

531
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm not gonna lie. There's a there's

532
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: also a I mean, there's a sense of accomplishment and

533
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: an award of such you do all of that work,

534
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: and that's not the reason that I'm trapping wolves. I'm

535
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: not trapping it to say look at me, I'm not

536
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: trapping it. To have a wolf pelt on the wall.

537
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: I donate most of my wolf pelts to generate funding

538
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: for the program.

539
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: But when the little bit of reward.

540
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: And satisfaction that comes out of all of the effort

541
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: that goes into it gets taken from you by somebody

542
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: that you're trying to help by doing all that work,

543
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: it kind of breaks your heart.

544
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that would be heartbreaking. So much work

545
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: and then finally you get one and somebody took it,

546
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: dang it or yeah, yeah, oh that's that's brutal. So

547
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: for our listeners that this that love a good challenge

548
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know this, this sounds like something

549
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: I would really love to do. What's the first step

550
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: in getting set up to start trapping wolves? Do you

551
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: have to take any courses with the fishing game? Do

552
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: you have you know what square one?

553
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: You do? Yeah?

554
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: So step one would be to get on the IDO

555
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: Fishing Game websites. Click click the education link, find the

556
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: Trapper education link. You have to have completed a trapper

557
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: education course and you have to have completed the Wolf

558
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: Trapper Education course. So go get on their website and

559
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: sign up. I believe the way that that system typically

560
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: works is once they have enough participants interested in a

561
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: class at a set area, then they hold the class.

562
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 2: So you definitely want to go talk to them at

563
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: the regional office and get yourself signed up. Second, start

564
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: saving all of your receipts for anything that is related

565
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: to your targeting of wolves. You'll need that for your

566
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: wolf harvest expense reimbursement through the Foundation of Wildlife Management.

567
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: Then I would do a little bit of research not

568
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: only into wolves in the wolves in the area that

569
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: you intend to trap, but into gear and supplies, the

570
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: things that you really need. There's sneering and foot trapping,

571
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: and there's a time and place for each where they're

572
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: each most efficient and effective. I personally prefer foot trapping,

573
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: and you know, for that very reason, if I get

574
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: one caught in a trap, the last thing the wolves new,

575
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: even if I drive in there and it spook to

576
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: them when they leave, is that their buddy was standing

577
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: right there, and so they're going to come back and

578
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: look for them. If I snare one, I better snare

579
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: all that I can the very first time that they're there,

580
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: because if I don't, odds are they're going to spook

581
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: and not come back to that location, so I would

582
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 2: start doing some research on what you want to be,

583
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: you know, what your preferred method might be. I can

584
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: tell you that it's a whole lot more fun than

585
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: exciting to walk up on a live wolf that's looking

586
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: you in the eye, then it is to walk up

587
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: on a dead wolf that's frozen to the ground in

588
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: a snare. And so you know, for that reason, I

589
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: typically try to foot trap everywhere.

590
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: That I can.

591
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: Snares definitely play a big role, especially once a wolf

592
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: pack is educator. A certain wolf educated to foot traps.

593
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 2: But and then if I had one tip to give

594
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: somebody new that's interested in targeting wolves, that's buy enough trap.

595
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: I you know, I started out with the cheapest traps

596
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: I could get my hands on that everybody said was

597
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: a good wolf trap. And those traps are. They're great

598
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 2: for specific instances. Some are trapping being one of those

599
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 2: when you don't have to deal with freeze and thought

600
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: conditions where you end up with six inches of snow

601
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: and then it rains on it and then it freezes.

602
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: Those lighter traps with less spring tension or a whole

603
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: lot more usable. They don't they they won't freeze to

604
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: the ground. If you're not dealing with freeze thaw issues

605
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: that nobs. Wolf Extreme trap is my go to personally.

606
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: There's lots of traps on the market. Alaska Number nine

607
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: is another one that that I'm very confident in. Those

608
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: are a little on the spin to your side. There's

609
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: a new trap made by Duke Kate fifty Wolf Trap

610
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: that now that they've got some adjustable pain tension on

611
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: the new version of that trap, I really think for

612
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: cost efficiency, that's going to be a really good trap

613
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 2: for GAD to buy. But I'd say, you know, start

614
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: out with no less than a couple of dozen traps.

615
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 2: I tell myself to never set just one wolf trap.

616
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 2: If I set one in the ground, I'm putting at

617
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: least three in that area because wolves are packing animals,

618
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: and although they may be a mile apart when they

619
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: come hunt through a basin, oftentimes they're traveling together. And

620
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: if you catch one, odds are there's going to be

621
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: others roaming around investigating around that wolf that's caught. And

622
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: so I've caught doubles numerous times just from having more

623
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: than one trap there. So by the most trap you

624
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: can afford, by enough trap, you know something that's that's

625
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: beefy and gonna break through freestyle conditions, crusts, and then

626
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: I'd say take your dog into the mountains and start

627
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: watching their behavior. Anything your dog peas on, stop and

628
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: investigate it. My dogs are invaluable on my trapline. I

629
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't I wouldn't know half of my set locations without

630
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: watching my dog's behavior.

631
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 3: GPS.

632
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: I started GPS and wolf scat and road systems, and

633
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: it sounds silly at first, but once you have covered

634
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: enough territory and you start identifying these crossing points where

635
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: a wolf is actually close to a road, close enough

636
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: for you to be able to access it with these big, heavy,

637
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: bulky traps, you'll start noticing a pattern if you put

638
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: it on a GPS round a map. And that's been

639
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 2: real valuable too. So those are the things I would

640
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: suggest doing. You know, to get started, Go get your

641
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 2: class done, Start researching what style of trapping you prefer

642
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: or would like to do. Talk to some trappers, take

643
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: a trapping course. We have at for W started putting

644
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: on a Wolfer's summit we had when this last July

645
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: was our first one and we had sixteen of our

646
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: top producing wolfers from our program come and give instruction

647
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: on how to be productive and on you know, mistakes

648
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 2: that they've made, sharing the ins and outs and dues

649
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: and don'ts, and what they believe to have helped them

650
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: be successful in the woods. And had over one hundred

651
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: people attend last summer in our next next one next July.

652
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: It's the weekend of the nineteenth and twentieth, I believe.

653
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: But you know, you can look into that and come

654
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: join us for that. I learned a lot from YouTube channels.

655
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: There's a lot of really good YouTube videos out there

656
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: to start familiarizing yourself. But I would have to say

657
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: probably the largest thing is prepare yourself mentally. The patients

658
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: and persistence. There's nothing that's ever challenged me in the

659
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 2: woods the way wolf trapping does. And most people after

660
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: a month of not seeing sign of life where they

661
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 2: put wolf traps out, give up and throw.

662
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 3: In the towel.

663
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: So I would I would also say, you know, prepare

664
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: yourself for for the long game mentally, because it's it's

665
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: it's brutal out there.

666
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because sometimes folks they have

667
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: this idea what it's going to be, and maybe they

668
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: think of some instant gratification, like Oh, I'm just gonna

669
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: go out and set some traps and I'll probably catch

670
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: one because I've seen wolf tracks here a lot. But

671
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like that's always the case, and it

672
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: more often than not it's going to be the long haul,

673
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: like you said, So don't get discouraged. You know, that's

674
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: the nature of the beast. Enjoy the process, like enjoy

675
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: figuring out you know, the wolf, like like like what

676
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: you've been saying. You've been studying wolves. You've been learning

677
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: everything you can about wolves. Even when you're not catching them,

678
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: you're still learning and understanding the process. And I can

679
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: only assume you love the whole process.

680
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: I you know it's work. I'll see that.

681
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: You know how. You know how when when you and

682
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: your buddies are young and you're gung ho and you

683
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: found this basin on a map that nobody, you swear nobody,

684
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: there's no way any person in his right mind has

685
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: ever gone there to hunt elk. And you go there

686
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: and you love the trip, and some idiot, usually me,

687
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: shoots a bull in this backcountry basin that's five days

688
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: hike from anywhere, and by the time you get that

689
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: last load to the truck. You just looking at each

690
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: other like you're a bunch of idiots and asking why

691
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: did I do this? Wolf trappens very.

692
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: Similar, question your sanity a lot.

693
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: But yeah, you definitely do It's it's just a lot

694
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 2: of work.

695
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 3: You know.

696
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: I've been really blessed in my hunting career, and uh,

697
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, I've taken some some real unique specimens. Dear

698
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 2: Elk bears. Uh you know for what our ground has

699
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: to offer. And I'll tell you there is nothing in

700
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 2: our mountains that have ever challenged me the way wolves do.

701
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: And so you know when I say prepare yourself mentally,

702
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: you know I don't take it lightly. There's a lot

703
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: of guys they you know. The phone call goes the

704
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: same every year. Man, justin I'm so excited. I got

705
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: some I got my classes out of the way, and

706
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: I got myself some traps. And I've had wolves in

707
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: my oat ground every year. We see them every year.

708
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go catch me some wolves. And I tell them,

709
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: rob Robberie, you go get them. I'm so excited for you.

710
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: And they called me a couple of weeks later and

711
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: they say, you know, I'm so excited. I went out

712
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: and I put all this gear in. Oh you just

713
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: there was wolf tracks there. I can't wait when those

714
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: wolves come back. Boy, I'm gonna get them. And I

715
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: tell them ra Rari, go get them. I'm so proud

716
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: of you.

717
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: A good job.

718
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: And then two weeks later they call me and they say,

719
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened. What do you mean, Well,

720
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: you know I bought all those traps, and I spent

721
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: all that money, and you know I've had to wax everything,

722
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: and now my garage is all covered in wax and

723
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: die and all this stuff. And I got all this money.

724
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: My wife's mad at me. I didn't go hunting. You know,

725
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: I missed my hunting time with my buddies. I just

726
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: I don't know what I did wrong. The wolves didn't

727
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: come back. And I said, well, how long has it

728
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: been since since you said? Well, you know it's been

729
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: it's been four weeks since.

730
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 3: I said.

731
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, Well, you know they run a three

732
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: to five week cycle. That just means your dude their

733
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,479
Speaker 2: due back any day.

734
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 3: Whatever you do, don't go.

735
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: Pull your gear. Well, I don't know if this is

736
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: for me. I tell them, just don't pull your gear.

737
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: Be patient. They'll show up by the next week. It's

738
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: the same, the same phone call. It's Oh, I don't know, man,

739
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go pull that gear out of there. I

740
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: got to get back to work. I know, I've been

741
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: going up there every second day and amount of gas money,

742
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: and I just don't know what to do. And I'm

743
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: just bigging man. If you've waited five weeks, now is

744
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: the time you're about to catch a wolf?

745
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 3: Do not give up, you.

746
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: Know, hang in there, hang in there.

747
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: And then that night I'll get.

748
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: A phone call and he'll say, you'll never know what

749
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: You'll never guess what happened. I drove up the mountain

750
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: and there's a wolf standing there in my trap. And

751
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's the guys that that pushed through

752
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 2: that that stick it out through the long haul, that

753
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: produce every single year consistently, most guys, by the time

754
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: they get to that fifth week throwing the towel.

755
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see it's it's a pretty dawning task. Really. Yeah. Wow,

756
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: So I have to ask it big buzz. Today on

757
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: social media, Colorado released wolves. What's your take on that?

758
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: Well, there's several different thoughts that go along with that topic.

759
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: First and foremost, we've got caller data that shows wolves

760
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 2: being in Colorado for years. Sure, you know, there's ample

761
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: amounts of information showing that Colorado.

762
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 3: Already has wolves.

763
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 2: So this whole ballot box biology concept, it just blows

764
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 2: my mind.

765
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 3: You know.

766
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: I genuinely think that these people that vote on stuff

767
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 2: like this that they're they're the ones that haven't stuck

768
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 2: in their head that nature needs to balance itself. Those

769
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: people don't realize that Colorado has three times the old

770
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: population that Idaho had when wolves came here, right, And

771
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: they don't realize that unchecked, act, unmanaged, that wolf population,

772
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: once it really gets established, is going to explode and

773
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: it's going to destroy that elk population. And I don't

774
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: think that they recognize the gravity of that, you know,

775
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: or what that actually looks like. It's it's really sad.

776
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: I know.

777
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: I was at the NASK summit last year in December,

778
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: and there's overembozement. And for those that don't know the

779
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: nasksim it's the National Association of Sportsman's Caucuses. Basically, state

780
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: game management agencies and the legislators that deal with natural

781
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: resources all come together once a year two a hash

782
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: out and discuss, you know, natural resource topics. So I'm

783
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: at this event and I'm waiting in line for for

784
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: our dinner, and I've been talking with the gentleman standing

785
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: next to me for quite some time. It's a long line.

786
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: And I get up there and there's the guys getting

787
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 2: this food. After I've been spewing all this information about

788
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: wolves and wolf issues and the things we've been doing

789
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: in Idaho and all this stuff, I find out the

790
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 2: guy is actually the assistant director for Colorado Fish Wildlife

791
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 2: in Parks and he's in charge of the wold transplant program.

792
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And you know, it was it was interesting

793
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: just listening to his perception and kind of the somberness

794
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: in his voice when I asked him what he was

795
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 2: going to do and it you know, it was kind

796
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: of an eye opener for me at that point.

797
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: You know.

798
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 2: And again, this was a year ago. I didn't honestly

799
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: expect this to transpire. I figured that with the devastation

800
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: that's taken place and the complications with managing wolves in

801
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: Idaho and Montana, that they would have paid a little

802
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: better attention to what's taking place here and how difficult

803
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: and how much of a task it's been to try

804
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: to manage wolves, and that they would have stopped the

805
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: transplant program and let them just naturally, you know.

806
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: Become part of it.

807
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 2: What Colorado does not have that we're blessed with is

808
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: the right to trap. And Colorado does not have a

809
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 2: mechanism to control wolf populations.

810
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: Wow, they didn't put it. They didn't. They didn't get

811
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: all that stuff figured out beforehand.

812
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: So well, they lost their trapping years ago, so it's

813
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: not legal to set a foot trap there.

814
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 3: Wow.

815
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: And you know, for those that don't know, you, you

816
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: think getting the coyote into a gage trap is is complicated.

817
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: A wolf is not going in a box. They're they're

818
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: extremely smart and extremely cagy and without trapping, there is

819
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: no mechanism to control their numbers.

820
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: And what will have and is.

821
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: Their population will grow and expand until which time their

822
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: prey based collapses and those wolves will end up dying

823
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: from disease and starvation or they'll disperse to new ground. So,

824
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: you know, to answer your question, what's my thoughts, I

825
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: think that it's horribly sad that ballot box biology is

826
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: destroying wildlife as we know it. Ballot box biology is

827
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: destroying one hundred and thirty years and billions of dollars

828
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: that sportsmen have spent creating the wildlife that we now

829
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: have through the North American model of wildlife conservation. It's

830
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: devastating that preservation extremist groups have taken our label of

831
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: conservationists and turned it into what the media presents a

832
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: conservation group to be. To day, you and I are conservationists.

833
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: That's preservation extremism.

834
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 3: Ma'am.

835
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: Well, I can't thank you enough for coming on here today.

836
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: I want to see if you can connect our listeners

837
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: who care about wildlife. They're interested in help helping management

838
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: manage wolf populations. How do they get involved with the

839
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: Foundation for Wildlife Management?

840
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 2: So first thing if they just go to f the

841
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: number four WM dot org stands for a Foundation for

842
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 2: Wildlife Management. At four WM dot org. Hop on there,

843
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: you can join, you can donate. We've got five chapters

844
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 2: in Idaho. We've got a chapter in Sandpoint, one in Cordelane,

845
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: one in the Clearwater region based in Lewiston, that's where

846
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: our banquet is. Anyhow, we've got one in Salmon. We've

847
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: got one in the Treasure Treasure Valley that banquet's in Caldwell,

848
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: and we also have four in Montana, one in the

849
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 2: Flathead Valley there in Kalispell, one in Libby, Montana, one

850
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: in Trout Creek, the Sanders County chapter, and then we

851
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 2: just have a new one that's just started up down

852
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: on the Bitter Route there in Hamilton. Each of those

853
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: chapters has a fundraiser banquet. Our first one is January

854
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: twenty seventh up in Kalispell, Sandpoints February tenth, we've got

855
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: a couple in March, and all the way through to

856
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 2: I think our last banquet of the years, Libby's May eighteenth.

857
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: Always looking for donors, supporters, assistants, help gathering donations, constantly

858
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: looking for volunteers. For each chapter, we challenge all of

859
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: our chapters to do one of a few different things.

860
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: First and foremost, the fundraiser banquet is where the majority

861
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 2: of the membership comes from. That's where the majority of

862
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: the income comes from. It also gives us an, you know,

863
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: an excuse to advertise, kind of gets us out there

864
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: in the public eye, gives us a great opportunity to

865
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 2: We always get up on the stage and give a

866
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: little bit of educational speech during those fundraiser banquet events

867
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: so that people can come to better understand the wolf

868
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: problem and what's really taking place out there. And then

869
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: we also have a trade show booths eats chapter. I

870
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: challenge each of them to attend a trade show booth,

871
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 2: whether it's at the fair or you know, their local

872
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: sportsman show or whatever it happens to be. We last

873
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: year we went to Grand Slam Club Ovist, the Sheep

874
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: Show the Western Hunt Expo. This year we're doing Cheap

875
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: Show in Western Hunt Expo. But look us up online

876
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: join donate our contact informations on there if you click

877
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 2: the about section all of our boards. We've got a

878
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: board of nine people. The contact information for each of

879
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: those board members is in there as well. If you

880
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: have other questions and don't want to listen to Justin's voice,

881
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people get tired of listen

882
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 2: to me talk about wolves once I get started. But uh,

883
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 2: you know, we'd we'd love to have you be part

884
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: of a chapter. Like like I said, we're always looking

885
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: for for help. It's a pretty amazing program. I you know,

886
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: when I go give a presentation to people that are

887
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: wanting to start a chapter, I always tell them you know,

888
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: share your why. What is the reason that this is

889
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: important to you? And I'll just tell you and the listeners.

890
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: You know, Barna and my my favorite experience in my

891
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: life is you know, hiking in in the dark upper

892
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: ridgeline during elk season and sitting and watching the sun

893
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: come up with elk bugling in the basins below me.

894
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: And I firmly believe if we don't control our wolf

895
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: populations that your kids in mine and their kids will

896
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: not get to expe experience that, and that I think

897
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: it would be just devastating. You know, it's our wildlife

898
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: is a big part of what makes Idaho and Montana.

899
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 2: You know what it is and the reason that I

900
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 2: that I love it so much. I think I speak

901
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: for a lot of sportsmen that are passionate about wildlife.

902
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, I agree one hundred percent. I need that.

903
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: That reminds me I need to re up my membership, so.

904
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: Super if you if you just hop on online there

905
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: at f the number four WM dot org, click the

906
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: join button or the renew button, either one that I

907
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: think it'll take you the same place, but we can

908
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: get you taken care of on there. But appreciate your support.

909
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people don't don't realize

910
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: we've removed I don't know. We started this in twenty eleven,

911
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: we got our five oh one c three and twenty twelve,

912
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,959
Speaker 2: funded our first wolf in twenty twelve, and we've now

913
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 2: removed more than two thousand, one hundred wolves MIIDO in

914
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 2: Montana with roughly one point nine something million dollars. We're

915
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: just shy two million dollars that we've generated through memberships

916
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: and fundraiser banquets, you know, just creating a mechanism that

917
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 2: a guy that doesn't have the means to get out

918
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: there and chase wolves can still be part of the solution.

919
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: While you and I are sitting on our couch with

920
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: our kids watching football, somebody is out there married to

921
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 2: a trap line through rain, snow, sleet, hail, miserableness.

922
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 3: You know it.

923
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: Those guys need our help and covering their expenses is

924
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: the least that we can do.

925
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, thanks so much for what you do and

926
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: your organization. Appreciate everything they put back into the the

927
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: outdoor community to manage these wolves. And and maybe I'll

928
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: get to see you at Western Hunt. I'll be on

929
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: there at the Phelips Booth super yeah, you bet all right.

930
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Justin you bet Her appreciate you having me

931
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: on