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Speaker 1: Injury expert Will Carroll is here. Check out the sub

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Speaker 1: stack under the knife for the best info on trade

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Speaker 1: or on injuries with players. And we've got a big one.

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Speaker 1: Will We called you in. You have the bat phone

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Speaker 1: ringing for this one. Aaron Judge on the il elbow issue.

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Speaker 1: Not a tear as far as we know in the UCL,

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Speaker 1: but when he comes back, he's gonna have to DH

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Speaker 1: give us everything you have on this one. This is

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Speaker 1: a top two player in our sport. Should Yankee fans

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Speaker 1: be concerned?

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Speaker 2: Sure? You know a lot of people were very worried.

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Speaker 2: I sent out a flash on Saturday afternoon when this

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Speaker 2: happened to let everybody know because the rumors were flying

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Speaker 2: that this was a UCL tear. And now the big

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Speaker 2: news comes out that it's a flexer strain. Everybody's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it could have been a lot worse. No, it couldn't have.

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Speaker 2: This is worse than the UCL tear. I know that's

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Speaker 2: strange to say, but for a hitter, if you can remember,

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Speaker 2: just a couple of years ago, Bryce Harper ruptured his

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Speaker 2: UCL and continued hitting, took the team to the playoffs,

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Speaker 2: and then had surgery after the season. Barely missed any time,

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Speaker 2: barely threw off his game other than change positions. For judge,

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Speaker 2: a flexor tendon, which is what you need to rotate

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Speaker 2: the bat to maintain grip, to make those fine adjustments

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Speaker 2: that you have to make. This is everything. Without this,

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Speaker 2: he cannot play, which is why he's on the IL.

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Speaker 2: And as we've seen with pitchers, this doesn't heal quickly.

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Speaker 2: This small little tendon, which overlaps with the UCL, often

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Speaker 2: takes a month or even more to heal up. So first,

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Speaker 2: he's not gonna be able to throw. That locks him

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Speaker 2: in at theh That certainly makes a problem with gian

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Speaker 2: Carlos Stanton, who's had his own issues with his elbows.

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Speaker 2: Second we don't know when he's going to be able

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Speaker 2: to hit. It's not like the UCL where it isn't

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Speaker 2: involved in the swing. It's very involved in the swing.

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Speaker 2: So this could go much past the fifteen day. We

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Speaker 2: don't have a solid read on missed. Secondarily, they were

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Speaker 2: very precise with their wording on exactly what's going on

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Speaker 2: if they're albout. They were clear that they're the flexer strained.

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Speaker 2: They didn't say exactly how much I hear it's a

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Speaker 2: grade two, which is bad, but that one could be worse.

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Speaker 2: But they just said the UCL was intact. They didn't

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Speaker 2: say it was fine, they didn't say there was no damage.

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Speaker 2: The whole no structural damage thing is often a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a misnomer. So in this situation, this for Judge,

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Speaker 2: this is bad. So the Yankees this is bad. Okay.

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Speaker 3: I have two questions off what you just said. One,

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Speaker 3: how many times do we see pictures flexer strain? Then

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Speaker 3: Tommy John like it seems like picture flexer strained? A

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Speaker 3: month later, Oh, we tried to come back. Oh, we're

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Speaker 3: actually having Tommy John right? And then two, best guess

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Speaker 3: I'm not asking my best, guess how long you think

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Speaker 3: he will be I know you're saying no timetable, but

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Speaker 3: best guess how long until Aaron Judge can be at

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Speaker 3: least a DH for the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the second one. I think it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be closer to a month. You know, if we just

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Speaker 2: absolutely take out throwing from this, it's still gonna affect

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Speaker 2: his swing. So I think we're gonna be able to

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Speaker 2: see in about fifteen days how long this is gonna take.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we're gonna know in a week because

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Speaker 2: he's gonna have to let this calm down. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: they're hitting its biologics and anti inflammatories, giving it every

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Speaker 2: possible way to heal up. But the question is how

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Speaker 2: is he going to be functionally. And Luckily, because of

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Speaker 2: things like the traject machine that the Yankees love, they're

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Speaker 2: gonna be able to test that out pretty quickly. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're gonna use light bats, they're gonna use all sorts

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Speaker 2: of functional equipment to see exactly when he can swing.

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Speaker 2: So I think it will be closer to a month

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Speaker 2: than the fifteen days. But again that's just a best guess.

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Speaker 2: As for the former part, the flexor too, you see out, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you see it a lot in pictures. Yeah, here we

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Speaker 2: are in twenty twenty five. We know a lot. We've

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Speaker 2: come a long way with sports medicine, but we still

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Speaker 2: don't know why the UCL breaks. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: go back to the research, it shouldn't hold up to

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Speaker 2: one pitch, let alone hundreds. We've changed how people pitch.

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Speaker 2: We haven't had one hundred and twenty pitch out in

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Speaker 2: this season in the major leagues, so what we're doing

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Speaker 2: doesn't work. We know that, but the actual biomechanical effects.

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Speaker 2: We simply don't know what causes it, but we got

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Speaker 2: a lot of theories, and one of those is that

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Speaker 2: the flexer and the forearm acts as a break which

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Speaker 2: takes some of the stress off the UCL. So if

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Speaker 2: you take that away, bad things happen. Just like if

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Speaker 2: you cut the brakes in a car, nothing good's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: After that, Judge said he wanted to come back at

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Speaker 2: the end of the ten days. Yeah, there was a

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Speaker 2: big argument. He didn't even want to go on the IO.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming based on what you're saying that the medical

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Speaker 2: team's like, no, this isn't good. Is there some type of.

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Speaker 4: Wrap, some type of like brace, because we saw Harper

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Speaker 4: I know it was his lead arm. He had that

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Speaker 4: brace when he was going through and recovering from Tommy John.

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Speaker 4: Is there something that they can brace it and maybe

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Speaker 4: get him back in the ten days. Yes, you could

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Speaker 4: basically treat this like a UCL stream or sprain. Excuse me,

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Speaker 4: you could brace him up and see how it goes.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure that's something. If they haven't already done, they're

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Speaker 4: going to do. I think the bigger question here is

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Speaker 4: throwing for Harper. They just shifted him to DH.

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Speaker 2: They knew the throwing wasn't gonna happen, so if they're

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Speaker 2: going to do that with Judge, that would certainly improve

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Speaker 2: the odds of return. I just think it's the simple

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Speaker 2: function of the flexer versus the UCL. The UCL is

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Speaker 2: not involved at all. It's not under stress during a

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Speaker 2: normal swing. If you hyper extend, yes a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't often happen. But the flex aer. If

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Speaker 2: you take away Aaron Judge's grip with his unique swing,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think he's going to be effective. I

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Speaker 2: think he's gonna miss I think he's not gonna be

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Speaker 2: able to track pitches as well. He's not gonna be

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Speaker 2: able to make the really fine motor adjustments. Just think

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Speaker 2: about what I mean, you guys have done this. How

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Speaker 2: do you adjust to one of these, you know, Jacob

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Speaker 2: Missarowski sweepers that are moving, you know, sixty five feet.

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Speaker 2: It feels like how do you deal with a sinker

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Speaker 2: running in on you. It's those fine adjustments you have

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Speaker 2: to make. Those. I just don't think he's capable of that,

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Speaker 2: at least in the short term.

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Speaker 3: We've all seen a lot of us have seen the

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Speaker 3: video of Judge making the throw in Toronto where he

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Speaker 3: kind of grat He's like, ah, could the Yankees have

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Speaker 3: done something different to avoid this or was this just

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Speaker 3: like one throw something happened and if it was gonna happen,

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Speaker 3: it was gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, he said it happened on a throw in Toronto,

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Speaker 2: and I've gone back and I don't really see any

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Speaker 2: indication there was a kind of weakish throw. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's got a good arm now, the plus arm. So no,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it was one thing. I think it

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Speaker 2: probably built up to this. He probably felt a grab

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Speaker 2: at one point, and then the thing that's different for

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Speaker 2: outfielders is they don't warm up. You know, you're out

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Speaker 2: there standing around for a while, you're not making as

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Speaker 2: many throws. You're certainly not doing something there. You can

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Speaker 2: see him kind of grabbing at it. So it's one

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Speaker 2: of those situations where I don't think it was one thing,

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Speaker 2: but it probably feels to him like one thing. Could

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Speaker 2: you brace him up, Yeah, you could put one of

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Speaker 2: those big robot look embraces on him, but it's really

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Speaker 2: gonna affect how he throws. I just don't think he's

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Speaker 2: gonna be able to do that. The question is can

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Speaker 2: you brace him up and have him swing? And I

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Speaker 2: think there's gonna be issues with that.

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Speaker 1: Prats. At some point we're gonna laugh about how healthcare

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Speaker 2: You all right.

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Speaker 4: Well, whenever he comes back, he's definitely going to be dhing.

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Speaker 4: How much that puts a strain on Juan Carlos Stanton's elbows.

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Speaker 4: The issue that he had not even talking about his

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Speaker 4: legs is running everything. Is that whatever it was that

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Speaker 4: I mean, I remember reading. I think it was like

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Speaker 4: a tennis elbow in both elbows. Is that something that

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Speaker 4: is more or less inflamed or like if you're playing

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Speaker 4: in the outfield. Is it something that's clearly they're worried

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Speaker 4: about G's health playing in the outfield when they can't

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Speaker 4: d H.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this one's an odd one. They called it tennis elbow,

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Speaker 2: but really what it is is tendonosis, which is you know,

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Speaker 2: tendon nineties is just inflammation of a tendon, in this

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Speaker 2: case one in the elbow. Yeah, it's basically the opposite

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Speaker 2: side of the UCL. But everybody kind of understands tennis

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Speaker 2: elbow and what causes it, and it's usually vibration, it's

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Speaker 2: usually over use. I've heard a lot of talk about

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Speaker 2: just how many swings he takes and did that wear

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Speaker 2: on him and caused those changes. Tendonosis is when there's

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Speaker 2: actually cellular level changes in the tendon itself, and tendons

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Speaker 2: are a weird thing. When you take a tendon and

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Speaker 2: transplanet either into an a CL or A, it actually

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Speaker 2: physically becomes that over a period of about five years.

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Speaker 2: So when you see cellular level changes, those aren't going

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Speaker 2: to get better. So he basically got this chronic issue

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Speaker 2: that he's having to deal with over and over. They've

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Speaker 2: been able to maintain it. He certainly hasn't been the

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Speaker 2: same player he's been over past years. This is one

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Speaker 2: that's just going to continue to get worse. If you

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Speaker 2: add throwing into it, it's not going to be great.

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Speaker 2: I keep thinking back, and you guys will probably remember

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Speaker 2: this one when Albert pool Hoole's hurt his elbow, I

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Speaker 2: think it was two thousand and three. They used to

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Speaker 2: run Edgar Renteria out to him to take a really

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Speaker 2: deep cutoff. They would even kind of undercut it with

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Speaker 2: the first basement. I forget who it was at that point.

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Speaker 2: I think it was probably Tino Martinez, but they would

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Speaker 2: almost do a double cut for deep things just to

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Speaker 2: make sure that Pool Holes didn't have to throw because

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Speaker 2: he frankly couldn't at that stage. So maybe with either

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Speaker 2: Stanton or Judge you could do something similar there. Both

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Speaker 2: of their their middle age. The olders have good arms.

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Speaker 3: Crazy crazy, I mean, I don't know why they would.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Stanton, they has to go in the outfield,

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Speaker 3: I guess, but wow, I mean, if you can't throw,

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Speaker 3: it's gonna be interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be interesting.

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Speaker 3: But let's talk about two other teams that are having

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Speaker 3: injury issues of their own.

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Speaker 2: The Braves.

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Speaker 3: Every pitcher they have seems to be going down and

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Speaker 3: the Dodgers. Is this an organizational thing or is this

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Speaker 3: just one of those years where everything went wrong.

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Speaker 2: Both for the Braves that was completely unplanned. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you never plan for injuries, but you kind of you

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Speaker 2: don't expect to have an injury sack where every single

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Speaker 2: pitcher on the opening gay roster is gone. Now they've

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Speaker 2: had to bring in people, they've had to make I

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Speaker 2: don't want to call it a desperation trade for fetting,

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Speaker 2: but that's that's essentially what it is. They have so

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Speaker 2: many young arms that they've brought up maybe a little

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Speaker 2: bit early. And you saw the same with the Dodgers,

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Speaker 2: and both of them had costs. You bring up guys

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Speaker 2: and put them in situations where they haven't pitched this much,

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Speaker 2: they certainly to pitch his level. I remember the Dodgers

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Speaker 2: having to bring guys up from Double A, which is

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Speaker 2: as unusual, but it certainly costs them. And we saw

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Speaker 2: the cost. You know, a mitchi And is just now

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Speaker 2: coming back from Tommy John after he was coming out

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Speaker 2: with the Braves. Look the idea that Chris Sale or

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Speaker 2: Spencer Strider or some of these are going to have injuries, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's part of the deal. We understand that. First off,

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Speaker 2: these are injury drone players that have had a history

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Speaker 2: of it, and history of injuries is the best prediction

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Speaker 2: of future injuries. These guys have had Tommy John surgeries,

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Speaker 2: Strider's on his second same with the Dodgers. Yeah, they've

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Speaker 2: brought in a lot of players that are really really talented,

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Speaker 2: really expensive, but also really injured. From Tyler Glasnow has

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Speaker 2: always had that issue, Blake Snell always had that issue.

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Speaker 2: They signed Roki Sasaki knowing that he'd had issues last

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Speaker 2: year and pretty much every season of his career because

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Speaker 2: he just so talented on the other hand, with the

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Speaker 2: the bullpen, that's the problem is they just don't have

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Speaker 2: other arms. It should be the easiest thing to collect

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Speaker 2: the arms. It seems like everybody out there just throws

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Speaker 2: ninety six with a sweeper, But everybody that throws ninety

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Speaker 2: six with a sweeper seems to get hurt. So there's

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Speaker 2: a trade off there. I think with both these organizations,

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Speaker 2: they've got to address whether or not their processes are good.

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Speaker 2: But these are both really good medical staffs. You know,

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Speaker 2: if anybody has an elbow injury or a shoulder injury

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Speaker 2: or a knee injury, one of the first falls is

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Speaker 2: to Neil Latrosh, the director of medicine for the Dodgers

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Speaker 2: and the Rams and virtually everybody else. So I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's the problem. I think the front office is

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Speaker 2: going to have to look at themselves and say, are

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Speaker 2: we just taking on too many things to hold together?

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it's worked. They're still winning and they've

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Speaker 2: got a World Series ring. So if they're just going

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Speaker 2: to accept those kinds of risk and figure out how

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Speaker 2: to make do with the six starters they've had healthy

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Speaker 2: at any point, it's hard to say it hasn't worked,

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Speaker 2: but man, it's a lot of work on that medical staff. Well,

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Speaker 2: you said one thing interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: You said, they bring these kids up from double A

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Speaker 3: and they're not used to it. Is rushing them hurting arms?

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Speaker 2: Or is it right?

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Speaker 3: Because like everywhere, every organization kind of does the same.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna baby and we're gonna baby and we're gonna

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Speaker 3: baby him. Why like, tell them don't throw ninety eight,

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Speaker 3: throw ninety five and try to save something, right, You

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Speaker 3: don't have to throw a hundred mill an hour sweeper

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Speaker 3: on every pitch. I don't know, it's a question. We

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Speaker 3: we could do yeah, tenos on this issue.

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Speaker 2: For I don't think you can. You could say don't

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Speaker 2: throw your hardest and then a hitter turns on you

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Speaker 2: and you're sent back to the minor leagues and can say,

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Speaker 2: well that didn't work. You see guys called up, You

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Speaker 2: see guys signed because they throw one hundred, one hundred

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Speaker 2: and one hundred and four. We're seeing philosophy is what

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Speaker 2: people are changing or chasing. We're seeing all this pitch

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Speaker 2: design that's putting more stress. That's why we're seeing all

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Speaker 2: these lap strains. We're seeing a ton more oblique strands

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Speaker 2: because guys are getting imbalanced. Yeah, this is the news.

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Speaker 2: I don't I think it's the rushing. I really think

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Speaker 2: actually getting guys through. You guys were talking about Nick

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Speaker 2: Kurt's second best game ever. By the way, Sean Green

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Speaker 2: had one that was just a little bit better. It's

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Speaker 2: one of those things where when you look at what's happening.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at Grant Homes today. The Braves pitcher

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Speaker 2: that just went down. He was in the minor leagues

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Speaker 2: for like a decade and the highest he ever went

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Speaker 2: was one hundred and forty eight innings, and that was

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Speaker 2: back in like twenty seventeen. Most of these pictures that

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Speaker 2: we see, these top minor league prospects aren't going to

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Speaker 2: touch one hundred innings this year. Forget the idea that

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have guys who are throwing one hundred and

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Speaker 2: ninety two hundred innings at the mayde who have those

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Speaker 2: days seemed to be gone and there's no good reason

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Speaker 2: for it. You know, I'm sure you guys talked to

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Speaker 2: guys who threw two hundred and fifty three hundred innings

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Speaker 2: not that long ago, Back when you guys were playing,

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Speaker 2: that was regular. Yeah, when I started out a baseball perspectives.

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Speaker 2: We have a stat called pitcher abuse points, which was

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Speaker 2: when we were seeing guys go one hundred and fifty,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty pitchers, we haven't had one go

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty. I think the biggest problem is

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Speaker 2: that at the minor league level, we're not setting these

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Speaker 2: guys up for success because they're not putting on any workload.

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Speaker 2: Babying them isn't working, just differently than overworking them was.

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Speaker 2: We've got to find a middle ground. I think there's

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Speaker 2: some methods that would work, but that would take a

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Speaker 2: whole different segment of the show.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I'm with you. We used the example close to

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Speaker 1: home for you, White Ox. Who is it? Noah Schultz?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he went three years in the minor leagues and

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Speaker 3: never through five innings, never made it to a fifth inning,

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Speaker 3: never made a fifth inning. Like, what are we doing?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I trust me, I don't understand. If you talk to pictures,

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Speaker 3: they don't understand it. But the more we baby them,

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Speaker 3: the more they get hurt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you pitch more in high school and college in

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Speaker 1: terms of length in a game, and then you go

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Speaker 1: backwards for a while, make it make sense.

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Speaker 2: I'll make it. I think there's pictures out there that

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Speaker 2: could throw a lot more. The issue is we don't

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Speaker 2: have any or a system. You know, if I wanted

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Speaker 2: to say, hey, go bench press three hundred pounds, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to strap three hundred pounds on there and

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Speaker 2: hope I'm going to build up to it or for crats,

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Speaker 2: I guess that would be just a Tuesday. It's one

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Speaker 2: of those days or things where why don't we use

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Speaker 2: the systems that work? If I want to run a marathon,

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Speaker 2: I don't just go run a marathon. I build up

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Speaker 2: to it. Why don't we see if these guys can

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Speaker 2: throw eighty five ninety five, one hundred, there are guys

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Speaker 2: out there that probably go full Leavon Hernandez and throw

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty innings every other or one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty pitcheons every other day. Who could go three

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Speaker 2: hundred innings the way guys used to. But we don't

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Speaker 2: have any system to get there.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, it's a broken system right now,

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Speaker 1: and I have not seen many fixes. We talk about

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Speaker 1: it a lot the last few years, but not many

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Speaker 1: fixes yet, which is a damn shame.

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Speaker 2: Well, billion dollar problem. And if you think about any

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Speaker 2: of these billionaire owners, if they had any other business

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Speaker 2: where they were burning money like this, they would be

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Speaker 2: doing something. Please tell me what the league is doing.

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Speaker 1: They're very focused on something else, which we're gonna cover next.

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Speaker 2: They are.

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Speaker 1: They're very focused on something else, and multitasking seems to

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Speaker 1: be a problem. And the report that they came out with,

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Speaker 1: which again we could spend a lot of time on,

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Speaker 1: I know way less than you and then most and

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Speaker 1: I didn't learn much from that report, so I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh boy, this is where we're at. Anyway, Well, this

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Speaker 1: was awesome, man, Thanks for jumping on with us. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: the time. We'll catch it soon.

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Speaker 2: Thanks us.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Judge has a pretty significant injury here. The Yanks

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Speaker 1: are downplaying it. That's the job of the team. Were

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Speaker 1: you more concerned when you heard what will said?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't realize this was that big of a deal.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard what cratzord, which is he was

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Speaker 3: gonna be back in ten days, didn't want to go

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Speaker 3: on the IL And now all of a sudden, what

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Speaker 3: Willson was a month. I put them to the end

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Speaker 3: of August. They're already falling behind the Blue Jays rapidly,

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Speaker 3: and you lose your best player by far, like that's.

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Speaker 2: A huge blow.

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Speaker 4: They're game and a half up in the wild Card

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Speaker 4: like like we're not we're not talking about it. It's

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Speaker 4: like they're looking up at the Blue Jays like we

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Speaker 4: got to catch them, and all of a sudden like,

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Speaker 4: oh crap, here comes the Rangers, Here comes you know,

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Speaker 4: here comes the Mariners. There's a lot of teams that

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Speaker 4: are chasing them here and yeah, it's a month. That's

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Speaker 4: that's news to me. That is I would be surprised

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Speaker 4: if and then if he comes back too soon, Oh,

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Speaker 4: he came back too soon. If if it reaggravates it

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Speaker 4: or it makes it worse, which is the last thing

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Speaker 4: you want.

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Speaker 1: It gets tricky. But this is why you're looking at

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Speaker 1: the wild Card seats. Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners hold them

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Speaker 1: and Mariners and Rangers are tied fifty six and fifty, right,

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Speaker 1: so one of those teams on the outside kind of

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Speaker 1: looking in. And then it's the Raise three games out,

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Speaker 1: Guardians three and a half out, Royals four out, Angels

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Speaker 1: five out. It helps to explain why some of these

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Speaker 1: teams might not sell. I'm talking about the Royals who clearly.

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Speaker 3: Are not selling.

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Speaker 1: Angels should sounding more and more like the are gonna sell.

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Speaker 3: Rais are probably gonna sells, are probably gonna a.

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Speaker 1: Great pitching staff. They should do. They should not be selling, I.

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Speaker 3: Know, but they just try to thread the needle where

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Speaker 3: they buy and sell at the same time. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's.

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Speaker 1: Look at your surroundings. They should not be selling.

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Speaker 4: Why don't the giants have anything to sell?

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Speaker 3: What do you mean they already get go with their pieces?

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Speaker 1: You mean, why don't they have anything to sell? They're

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Speaker 1: three games out of a wild card spot.

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Speaker 4: They're buying three games. See, yeah, that's the max. That's

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Speaker 4: the max if you're if you're a four or five,

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Speaker 4: they lose two more. They're on a slide, must posing.

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Speaker 4: Nobody even talks about what places they would have