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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Any Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we

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Speaker 1: have a classic episode for you about artificial flavorings. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and this is uh can we call it oldie but

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Speaker 1: a goodie? I sure it's yeah, it's fun. It originally

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Speaker 1: aired in um February of Wow, Yeah, wow, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, I love it. I love it when

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Speaker 1: your listeners ask me these questions as if it's very

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Speaker 1: important to you. But I believe I mentioned in this

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Speaker 1: episode that artificial flavoring is one of the wide categories

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Speaker 1: of food that I kind of cheat and say I

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Speaker 1: don't like artificial flavors fruit artificial flavors, right, And I've

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Speaker 1: had a couple of listeners right in with follow up questions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'm only too happy to go into it. Um

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like fruit artificial flavoring,

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Speaker 1: and I actually don't. I actually think I might because

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Speaker 1: one of the other ones is carible. Um, and I

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Speaker 1: actually think my bigger problem might be or whatever, which

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Speaker 1: is also I think part of the doctor Pepper thing,

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Speaker 1: which I also I despise more than anything. I can't

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Speaker 1: put into words how much I hate Dr pepper. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I I don't despise flavor. Usually if I dislike a food,

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Speaker 1: it's a texture issue more than a flavor issue. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of foods like I think I

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Speaker 1: talked about in the chestnuts episode, which I forgot that

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Speaker 1: we did, um until and trying to do that to me.

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Speaker 1: I would I put it on the schedule for us

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Speaker 1: to do an episode about, and she was like, nah, no, dude,

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Speaker 1: it's a very sad story. Um. But but no, they

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Speaker 1: they're they're yeah, like like like chestnuts, I just like

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Speaker 1: because they taste a little bit too rich to me.

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Speaker 1: But even that, I'm kind of getting over. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand this severe version that you have. I wish I

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Speaker 1: could like this. It's a physical like my whole body

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Speaker 1: is like no, yeah, nope, yeh know it like makes

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Speaker 1: you angry, it does. I'm getting a little heeded talking

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Speaker 1: about um, but I do. It's funny because it is

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Speaker 1: one of those things I do like talking about. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate when you listen or like I'm just like

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Speaker 1: a scientist taking notes, like like, well, just curious because

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Speaker 1: there's something I'm sure I'm fine with I've definitely had

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Speaker 1: some and I'm you know, just okay. But and a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is more not the Dr Pepper level

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Speaker 1: of hate. It's just like I would never I would

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Speaker 1: rather not eat it. I would never choose to eat it,

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Speaker 1: seek it out. If someone offers it to me, I

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Speaker 1: will say no. It's not like that level, at visceral level. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it is interesting. I don't I don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going on either. And that's one of the things that

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Speaker 1: fascinates me about humans in general, is why they like

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Speaker 1: what they like and why they don't like what they

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Speaker 1: don't like. Yeah, it's um, you know, we are we

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Speaker 1: are all our own little little mysteries, just just booping

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Speaker 1: around the universe being mysterious to ourselves as well. You're right.

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Speaker 1: I like that we are all our own little mysteries. Um.

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Speaker 1: But this one, this one a lot of mysteries and

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Speaker 1: a lot of interesting historical taste facts. I just thought

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Speaker 1: about how people think like it should taste, for instance. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: and then right right, this was a really fun one

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Speaker 1: in terms of science. Um, I get really riled up

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Speaker 1: a few times in it. Uh. As always, we did

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Speaker 1: a super brief like oh man has there been any

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Speaker 1: wacky news about artificial flavoring um and and people are

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Speaker 1: still mad that it's artificial, and that's you know, and

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Speaker 1: you know again we're see above, we where all our

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Speaker 1: own mysteries. And if yeah, I don't personally see scientifically speaking,

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Speaker 1: a reason to be that angry about it, well, I

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Speaker 1: only see it in terms of my friends tricking me

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Speaker 1: into drinking and drink that I despise. But yes, scientifically

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Speaker 1: i'm generally, but you're not. You're not like out there

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Speaker 1: like lobbying against dr pepper. You're like, no one should

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Speaker 1: drink dr pepper. You're not like set it on fire?

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Speaker 1: Are like that? Why have I never thought of? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I want people to like what they like. Most most

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Speaker 1: everyone I know loves it um like. That's not even exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure most everyone I know loves it UM.

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Speaker 1: So I would never deprive someone just because I have

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Speaker 1: an issue that's very personal. There's no science involved other

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Speaker 1: than my example study of one. But yes, yes, you

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Speaker 1: are correct, Like would you like go Ford, go for it,

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Speaker 1: go forth and drink this thing that Annie viscerally despises.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how it's turned into this. I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to get a note from our advertising at people.

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Speaker 1: No longer a sponsor, no longer for for For the record,

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Speaker 1: I do love Dr Pepper, so I, oh, let's because

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Speaker 1: I always do this. I just have to draw griptic kids.

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Speaker 1: But alas, the episode is not about this one specific products.

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Speaker 1: It's not. It's not. We've gone on quite a long

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Speaker 1: time now about something that's this episode, right, is not

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Speaker 1: about So so let us get into that episode and

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Speaker 1: I'll let former Annie and Lauren take it away. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogel Bump and

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Speaker 1: Diamond Eries, and today we're talking about artificial flavor. That's right.

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Speaker 1: I would say this is like food Stuff's throwback episode.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's we reference essentially everything we've ever talked about, yes,

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Speaker 1: and future episodes that we are going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: So we gave ourselves so much homework. We really did,

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Speaker 1: and you as well. You're welcome. Yea, Okay, So let's

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Speaker 1: start out with what the heck are these things? Lauren? Well,

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Speaker 1: artificial flavors are mixtures of chemical compounds that mimic the

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Speaker 1: flavor and or scent of certain foods, sometimes because they're

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Speaker 1: the same compounds that naturally appear in those foods. Right,

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Speaker 1: And a quick note here, the f d A has

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Speaker 1: no legal definition of natural when it comes to food

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Speaker 1: in the United States. UM marketers are allowed to use

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Speaker 1: that term willy nilly as long as the product doesn't

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Speaker 1: contain any added colors, synthetic substances, or yep, artificial flavors. However,

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Speaker 1: apart from knowing those things are in there, you don't

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Speaker 1: really know what is in there when it says natural. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do have a definition for flavor that whose significant

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Speaker 1: function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. A natural

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Speaker 1: flavor is one that comes from a plant or animal,

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Speaker 1: but that can include bacteria and yeast, and artificial flavor

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Speaker 1: is one that's produced in a lab via chemical and

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Speaker 1: or mechanical processes. Um. And note that an artificial flavor

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Speaker 1: and a natural flavor can be molecularly identical. It's just

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Speaker 1: how you got that compound. So artificial flavors show up

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Speaker 1: in a lot of things processed food and drinks. You know,

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Speaker 1: your ramen and your soda pop and weird chips and

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Speaker 1: dessert themed vodka. Um as of of Americans grocery purchases

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Speaker 1: contained added flavors, but artificial flavors are also in cosmetics, pharmaceuticals,

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Speaker 1: hygiene products. You know, lip bomb, to cough syrup, to toothpaste,

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Speaker 1: to vitamins, to any kind of pill that's given a

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Speaker 1: sweet outer coating to help that medicine go down medicine. Man.

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Speaker 1: The folks who work in this industry are called flavor

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Speaker 1: chemists or flavorists, and their jobs are not easy. Only

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Speaker 1: about five hundred are certified by the Society of Flavor

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Speaker 1: Chemists worldwide. And their job is not easy because, okay,

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Speaker 1: like the calm pounds that make say a strawberry smell

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Speaker 1: and taste like a strawberry, are a lot of compounds,

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Speaker 1: and they're all working together in these strange and ephemeral ways.

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Speaker 1: And that's because the way that we smell and taste

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Speaker 1: things is complicated. The average adult has about ten thousand

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Speaker 1: taste buds, not just on your tongue, by the way,

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Speaker 1: a few are spread throughout the rest of your oral cavity.

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Speaker 1: And these are nerve endings that are triggered to send

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Speaker 1: signals to your brain when they interact with specific types

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Speaker 1: of molecules. These cells give you all kinds of levels

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Speaker 1: of sweet sour, bitter, salty, and savory sometimes called umami.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got other nerve cells throughout your oral and

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Speaker 1: nasal cavities that detect molecules that give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of chemical heat and cooling and tingling. You know, spicy,

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Speaker 1: hot or minty or mentholi stuff like that. Those same

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Speaker 1: cells also detect a stringency that's what tells your brain

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Speaker 1: that lemons or or dry wines taste not just sour,

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Speaker 1: but like physical puckery. Yeah, and then you've got all

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Speaker 1: faction are sent uh nerves and your nasal cavity alert

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Speaker 1: your brain when they interact with more other different molecules,

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Speaker 1: both from outside and inside your mouth. For strawberries, for example,

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Speaker 1: researchers have isolated over three hundred compounds that affect our

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Speaker 1: experience of smell and taste. For tomatoes, it's over four

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Speaker 1: D Wow. Also, even once you do isolate a bunch

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Speaker 1: of these compounds, it's not really all that useful unless

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Speaker 1: you can figure out a way to produce them cheaply

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Speaker 1: and in large quantities. In a lot of cases, we

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Speaker 1: don't know how the plants make these compounds to begin with,

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Speaker 1: so figuring out a way to produce them is hard.

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Speaker 1: It's very difficult, Yes, and it is a big industry.

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Speaker 1: One market estimate from lefting Well and Associates put the

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Speaker 1: total flavor and fragrance industry sales for at twenty four

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. And that's not like consumer purchase is that's

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Speaker 1: sales straight from the companies that produce these flavor incent

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Speaker 1: compounds to other companies that put them in stuff. That

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Speaker 1: is a hefty, hefty number, a hefty sum. My favorite

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Speaker 1: thing about artificial flavors um that I kind of did,

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Speaker 1: never thought about, is that in some cases it's like

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Speaker 1: you're tasting the past and speaking of the past. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about history. But first let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsor, Yes, thank you. All right. So, the very

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Speaker 1: first iteration of artificial flavors were oils made from extracted

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Speaker 1: fragrances and flavors in ancient Egypt. Every Sinna or even Senna,

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Speaker 1: the Persian physician and philosopher, took this a step further

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Speaker 1: in the eleventh century. He realized that you could distill

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Speaker 1: oils by steaming the plant to get the oil. Whatever

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Speaker 1: you're trying to get and then let it condense back

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Speaker 1: to a liquid, sort of like what you would do

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Speaker 1: with alcohol. This innovation opened the doors for a lot

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Speaker 1: more flavors and sins. The first historical records we have

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Speaker 1: of artificial flavorings come out of the mid nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: the Crystal Palace Exhibition, London eighty one, all kinds of

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Speaker 1: scientific and technological advances on display for the public, including

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Speaker 1: artificially flavored candies for the sampling in pineapple, apple, pear,

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Speaker 1: and grape flavors. With industrialization and full swing, all of

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Speaker 1: these flavors were compounds discovered as accidental byproducts and other

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Speaker 1: scientific endeavors, and synthesized in labs. Similarly to artificial sweeteners.

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Speaker 1: Scientists doing other experiments maybe get a whip of of

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Speaker 1: something fruity and they thought to themselves, hmmmm, I bet

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Speaker 1: we could use this to flavor things. And these first

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Speaker 1: artificial flavors were generally single chemicals diluted with alcohol. Also

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Speaker 1: similar to artificial sweeteners, these flavors came from things you

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Speaker 1: might not suspect, like quote substances of intensely disgusting odor. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like I said about tasting a bit of the past,

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Speaker 1: thing we're going to be talking about some artificial flavors

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Speaker 1: that just don't taste like what they claim to be imitating.

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Speaker 1: And one is artificial cherry. Oh yeah. The cherry flavoring

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Speaker 1: found in most sodas and candies is more reminiscent of

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Speaker 1: wild cherries or cherry liqueur. And that's because when it

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Speaker 1: was first derived, it was this Esther method. And the

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Speaker 1: chemical behind cheap artificial cherry is benzalda hide, which is

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Speaker 1: also used in almond oil. I was reading about this

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Speaker 1: in an of view with artificial flavoring expert Nadia Brenstein,

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Speaker 1: and she described it as an heirloom or in heritage

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Speaker 1: flavor artificial flavor, which I kind of love. Yeah, yeah, huh.

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Speaker 1: That's that's why it doesn't taste at all. Like Okay,

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Speaker 1: I totally get the almond thing. As we mentioned in

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Speaker 1: our Vanilla episode vanill In, the compound behind Vanilla's flavor

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Speaker 1: was isolated in eighteen fifty eight by Nicola Theodore gobli Um.

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Speaker 1: It was the first artificial flavor that was derived from

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Speaker 1: the actual ingredient it was meant to mimic. Almost two

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Speaker 1: decades later, in eighteen seventy four, a pair of German

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Speaker 1: scientists by the names of Ferdinand Tianman and Wilhelm Harmon

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Speaker 1: used pine tree bark to synthesize vanillan. The very next year,

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Speaker 1: they opened the world's first vanillan factory, so that the

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Speaker 1: popular flavor was no longer going to empty your bank account.

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Speaker 1: We talked about that a lot in the Vanilla episode.

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Speaker 1: Should you like to listen to that? If you haven't already,

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Speaker 1: by the time this factory opened, you could get all

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Speaker 1: kinds of artificial fruit flavors. According to one writer in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four, artificial essences of nearly every fruit are made,

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Speaker 1: some of which are absolutely perfect in their resemblance to

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Speaker 1: the real fruit essence, while others leave a great deal

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Speaker 1: to the imagination. That's one of those kind of like

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Speaker 1: backhanded compliment insult things. Yeah, you think it's going well

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Speaker 1: right up until then, in the eighteen sixties, a decade

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Speaker 1: before bananas were available in the US, people could purchase

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Speaker 1: artificially banana flavored candies. They were derived from a compound

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Speaker 1: found in the original commercialized banana grow Michelle, which is

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Speaker 1: why we call it fake banana. Or this seems to

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Speaker 1: be the general consensus, but not totally agreed upon in

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Speaker 1: the scientific community. Yeah, one researcher who looked into it

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Speaker 1: found no particular evidence that artificial banana flavoring came directly

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Speaker 1: from the grow Michelle. But he did find that the

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Speaker 1: grow Machell variety, which you can still get from a

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Speaker 1: few specialty growers in places like Hawaii, has a flavor

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Speaker 1: that's sweeter and more flat or or simple than today's

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Speaker 1: Cavendish banana. And this is scientific. Gas chromatography showed fewer

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Speaker 1: known flavor and or sent compounds in the grow Machelle,

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Speaker 1: so compared with the Cavendish banana, grow Machelle bananas taste

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Speaker 1: sort of artificial. Uh m, well, this brings us to

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Speaker 1: juicy fruit. What kind of fruit is juicy fruit? By

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Speaker 1: the way, no one knows. If you don't know what

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Speaker 1: juicy fruit is, it's the Wrigley's fruit gum that it's

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Speaker 1: an yellow package, or it was when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: Uh uh, this is when it debuted. The interesting thing

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Speaker 1: here is it's got no clear flavor, and when you

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Speaker 1: taste it, you're like, yeah, that's juicy fruit, but you

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Speaker 1: don't know what fruit is. The juicy one we are

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Speaker 1: discussing is not specified and juicy fruit went all away

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Speaker 1: with it, going so far as to adopt the slogan

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties the gum with the fascinating artificial flavor,

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Speaker 1: m Well, they embraced it. As the century drew to

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Speaker 1: a close, you could find so many artificial fruit flavors.

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Speaker 1: The US, Canada, France, Britain and Germany used them, and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things like candy jams or drug store soda.

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Speaker 1: They seemed to be doing a pretty decent job at

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Speaker 1: the flavor part too. When a Massachusetts Board of Health

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Speaker 1: inspector came asking around about these things in the eighteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? A soda vendor told him customers

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Speaker 1: cannot distinguish the artificial from the true fruit flavors. However,

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Speaker 1: not everybody agreed, including Charles Soul's, the author of a

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Speaker 1: eight soda and Beverage handbook that included this note, no

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Speaker 1: amount of chemical skill can imitate the fine flavors of

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Speaker 1: many fruits. I like that quote just because it has

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Speaker 1: a lot of fs in it. But then we get

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Speaker 1: to the US Pure Food and Drug Act in six

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Speaker 1: thanks in part two, hines that hines, Yes, that hines

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Speaker 1: catch up Hines absolutely, and we have a catchup episode

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Speaker 1: in the works, and he is fascinating, So look for that.

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Speaker 1: Look for that an upcoming episode. There's all this concern

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Speaker 1: about artificial flavors being part of the problem of masking

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Speaker 1: the problem. Specifically, it's like rotting food or especially rotting food,

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Speaker 1: kind of like non food food ingredients. Yeah, basically tricking

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Speaker 1: you into eating something that you weren't eating. Yeah. After

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Speaker 1: President Roosevelt um past the Pure Food and Drug Act,

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Speaker 1: anything containing imitation in quotes flavors had to be labeled

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Speaker 1: as such. This, the codified differentiation between genuine and in

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Speaker 1: autation foods, was the first statutory distinction in the US.

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Speaker 1: If the flavor came from the actual thing, it was genuine.

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Speaker 1: If it was synthetically derived, then it was imitation. Artificial

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Speaker 1: flavor manufacturers smarter the bit at this. I can imagine

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Speaker 1: not the law necessarily, but the fact that they were

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Speaker 1: being called impure or dangerous. The Flavor and Extract Manufacturers

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Speaker 1: Association launched a campaign in nineteen to improve their negative

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Speaker 1: image and what they viewed as an unfair association with

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Speaker 1: quote adulterators, food poisoners, and drug dopesters. Some like chemists

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Speaker 1: Allois von Isaacovis believed the law improved sales and that

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Speaker 1: synthetics could be better than the real thing. Just to

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Speaker 1: point out, artificial, artificially produced compounds can actually be more

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Speaker 1: pure and safe than naturally produced ones due to you know,

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Speaker 1: when you've got iological organisms creating stuff for you. They

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Speaker 1: they're organisms, and their stuff can vary. Right when you're

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Speaker 1: doing it in a lab, you have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: really isolate it out. This is true either way. Um. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: in eight a Japanese chemist unlocked an easy way to

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Speaker 1: convey savory flavor through food. Monosodium glutamate m S. G

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Speaker 1: Akita isolated MSG as the compound in c KELP that

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Speaker 1: gives an extra depth of flavor to kombudashi. Broth And

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Speaker 1: coined the term um mommy to describe it, derived from

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Speaker 1: a colloquial word for tasty. Uh so yes u mommy

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Speaker 1: is a nineteen odds marketing term. Anyway. Uh MSG went

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Speaker 1: on the market in nineteen o nine as a food

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Speaker 1: supplement that could make bland but nutritious food more appealing.

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Speaker 1: Now that was a hope anyway, after aggressive educational marketing,

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Speaker 1: it really caught on with upper middle class housewives and

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Speaker 1: spread to Taiwan, China, and the United States over the

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Speaker 1: next couple of decades as an inexpensive and vegetarian alternative

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Speaker 1: to using pricey animal products in cooking, although it was

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Speaker 1: a household product in Asia and it was mostly an

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Speaker 1: industrial and restaurant ingredient over here in the States. Right

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Speaker 1: More on that later. Sometime around n a fellow who

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Speaker 1: worked out he worked out He worked with the flavor

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Speaker 1: extracts for soda past a woman whose perfume was a

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Speaker 1: dead ringer for concord grapes. He was able to track

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Speaker 1: down the chemical behind the fragrance, and he discovered they

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Speaker 1: were already using it in Germany and Austria as orange

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Speaker 1: blossom essence. That's because they had a different type of

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Speaker 1: grape than the concord, with a different flavor and smell. Interestingly,

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Speaker 1: this was a long time before scientists actually knew that

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Speaker 1: this was a flavor chemical in grapes. Yeah, and some

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Speaker 1: flavors are easier to figure out than others. One that

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Speaker 1: is apparently notoriously difficult is coffee. In the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: Dutch chemists isolated a compound called diocetle that imparted a

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Speaker 1: buttery flavor to foods. It's produced naturally by the lactic

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Speaker 1: acid bacteria at work in some alcohols like chardonnay and

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Speaker 1: also in cultured butter. Makes sense. As industrialization gripped the

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Speaker 1: dairy industry, creamery's started using this artificial diceetle to standardize

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Speaker 1: their butter or to cut corners by skipping the culturation

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Speaker 1: step entirely. More on that in our butter episode and

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Speaker 1: our popcorn episode. Yeah all the throwbacks. Also in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, chemists at the U. S d A Tried

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Speaker 1: to nail down artificial apple flavor from a ton of apples,

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Speaker 1: not like an actual ton. Uh. They were only able

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Speaker 1: to extract less than two grams of usable stuff, and

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Speaker 1: from there they isolated five chemicals which you can find.

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Speaker 1: It was part of the public domain since it was

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Speaker 1: government research. Flavor science is complicated. Most flavor compounds held

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Speaker 1: by companies are proprietary. One of the best examples of

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Speaker 1: these secret flavorings was peach, first perfected in the Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: area by a firm called Fries and Fries. Everyone was

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out their secret uh and the cat

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Speaker 1: came out of the bag when a flavored chemist learned

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Speaker 1: that they discovered one of the compounds accidentally after a

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Speaker 1: mishap and castor oil production resulted in the entire factory

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Speaker 1: smelling like peaches. I mean, of the things that could

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Speaker 1: happen after, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's the best possible mistake. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um. Another chemical component in their peach flavoring was

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Speaker 1: discovered after somebody left a piece of cheese soaked an

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Speaker 1: owl call down in the basement next to the furnace.

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Speaker 1: Whether on purpose or by accident, the article did not specify.

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Speaker 1: Huh the iPad. Someone might just leapt is cheese down there.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just accidentally dropped piece of cheese. And they're beer.

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Speaker 1: I've not known, the world will never know. Another weird

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Speaker 1: fact that I love. Um. People seem to think that

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Speaker 1: red drinks are sweeter than nod red drinks in taste tests,

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Speaker 1: regardless of whether or not they actually are, just because

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Speaker 1: we associate red with certain flavors. Um. Oh, and unless

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Speaker 1: SODA's purple, most folks can't tell you after tasting it

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Speaker 1: that it's great flavored. They need that perfect need the

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Speaker 1: purple indicator. They don't recognize the flavor without the color. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things that there's a difference

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Speaker 1: between flavor and taste. Taste is the literal thing that's

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Speaker 1: happening with your taste buds, and flavor is all that

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Speaker 1: other stuff. Yeah s, sound, etcetera. Yeah. So at this

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Speaker 1: point in our timeline, uh, the the industry is actually

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Speaker 1: about to get a lot easier to work in due

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Speaker 1: to a technological innovation, which we will talk about when

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Speaker 1: we get back from one last break for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So

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Speaker 1: the entire flavor industry would get a serious boost when

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Speaker 1: chromatography technology advanced in the nineteen forties and fifties. The

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Speaker 1: first gas chromatographs were produced commercially later that decade. Scientists

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Speaker 1: going back to the beginning of the twentieth century had

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Speaker 1: been investigating ways to separate out and identify compounds that

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Speaker 1: make up various substances. And it turns out that if

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Speaker 1: you heat a sample of something to the point that

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Speaker 1: it vaporizes, and then pass that vapor through a column

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Speaker 1: of liquid, all the chemical components from the sample will

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Speaker 1: interact with the liquid and the sides of this column

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Speaker 1: slightly differently because of their inherent molecular properties, sort of

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Speaker 1: like like runners of different speeds. These chemicals will separate

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Speaker 1: themselves out from one another as they flow through this chamber,

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Speaker 1: and then you can use a chemical detector of one

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Speaker 1: kind or another to figure out what each of those

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Speaker 1: compounds is. So suddenly chemists had a relatively inexpensive way

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Speaker 1: to like automatically detect chemicals from stuff. You didn't need

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Speaker 1: like tremendous training to use this machine. You could start

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Speaker 1: identifying the compounds and products that may or may not

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00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: give them their flavor, may or may not, may or

390
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: may not. Doors are opening, they are. And as mass

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Speaker 1: production of food and nationalization of products took off, so

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Speaker 1: did the need to add back in flavor that was

393
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: lost in mass production and to have a product with

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00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: a consistent flavor a cost country and even around the world.

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Speaker 1: More and more foods were processed, and therefore more and

396
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: more foods were artificially flavored. The first flavored potato chips

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Speaker 1: from Irish company Potato came out in the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: with Falton vinegar and cheese and onion varieties. On US

399
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: grocery shelves, you'd find barbecue, are Sarah cream and onion.

400
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: This was the time that grocery stores were really taking

401
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: off and so many products were competing to end up

402
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: in the American shoppers cart. Having a memorable flavor was

403
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: a big part of that. In seven, a VP at

404
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: General Mills, Oh yeah that General Mills said that flavors

405
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: should serve quote as a built in trademark which will

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00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: invariably be identified with its brand name and its producer.

407
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: In the nineteen fifties, the slogan of a popular um

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00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: fragrance and flavor brand was nothing sells like flavor and

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Speaker 1: that it was the silent salesman. I know. The Food

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00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: Drug and Cosmetics Act got a makeover. That's when the

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Speaker 1: list of generally Recognized as Safe g r a s

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00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: was introduced in the US, and it meant that manufacturers,

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to be on that list, had to

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Speaker 1: prove they were worthy of the designation. And it made

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00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: things easier for the f d a UM and for

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Speaker 1: companies wanting to use the ingredients on the list, including

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Speaker 1: those in the artificial flavoring category. Wow, but artificial flavors

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Speaker 1: were not immune to the same health concerns that impacted

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Speaker 1: artificial sweeteners. In ninety three, a compound that had been

420
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Speaker 1: used as part of artificial sweeteners and vanilla, called kumarin

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Speaker 1: was taken off the market voluntarily by companies after a

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00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: study came out linking it to liver damage in rats.

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Speaker 1: Of flavoring in root beer called saffrol was removed this

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Speaker 1: way to That same year, the Food Additives Amendment passed,

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Speaker 1: but as it happened, the f D a bit off,

426
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: a bit more than it could show. There were more

427
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: than a thousand chemicals in these additives for them to

428
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: test a lot of them and were present in really

429
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: small amounts. So the FDA raised his hands and was like, oh,

430
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, Gay, we'll just ague at your word. For

431
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: most of these, they allowed the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers

432
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: Association to decide what should be tested, and as you

433
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: can imagine, they were pretty laxed about the whole thing.

434
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: This is still the arrangement today and as often there

435
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: were over three thousand chemical additives on the generally recognized

436
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: a safe list, although in nineteen sixty eight and sixty

437
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: nine controversy over the safety of artificial sweeteners sacharin and

438
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: cyclomate prompted President Nixon to order an FDA review of

439
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: all the additives on its g R A S list.

440
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: Amidst all of this, in nineteen sixty eight, a Chinese

441
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: American doctor wrote a speculative letter for the New England

442
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: Journal of Medicine, a sort of thinking out loud piece

443
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: about effects that he had anecdotally noticed after eating at

444
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants, including stuff like heart palpitations, and the journal

445
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: labeled this Chinese restaurant syndrome. Although the doctor brought up

446
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: a whole list of possible culprits, from like heed to

447
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: wind duck sauce, too imported mushrooms, the press latched on

448
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: to the item on the list that was an unnatural

449
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: additive MSG. Yeah, there was no conclusive research about its effects,

450
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: but the press and the public rallied against it, and

451
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: some factions in Japan picked up the battle cry. One

452
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: writer who was promoting in general a return to natural

453
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: foods when as far as saying the frightening thing about

454
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: processed foods made by large corporations, in addition to the

455
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: toxicity of the large quantities of food additives used, is

456
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: that they caused the spiritual ruin of Japanese women. What

457
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: his His idea here was the cooking healthy meals for

458
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: your family as a form of prayer and a road

459
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: to internal peace. And yeah, apparently additives like MSG can

460
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: just ruin that. I had no idea. We talked a

461
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: little bit about MSG in our episode on Ramen, but

462
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: to reiterate here, research published in two thousand and six

463
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: that reviewed almost forty years worth of research studies found

464
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: no serious side effects or sensitivities in humans at large

465
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: to the amount of m SG that you could possibly

466
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: consume through food, like maybe headache or dry mouth if

467
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: you're eating on an empty stomach and you're not probably

468
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: properly hydrated. But the the only really bad effects that

469
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: any researcher has ever found about MSG were when they

470
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: injected it into mice. Don't don't inject yourself with MSG.

471
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: Food stuff another trace of advice from food stuff. We're

472
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: here to help, we are. We will have to do

473
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: a whole episode though sometimes on MSG. It's it's a

474
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: really fascinating story. It's one of those terrific corporate efforts

475
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: that that took off extremely well and had some dips,

476
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's great. Yeah, I'm excited to return to that.

477
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: The diet foods that really started to take off from

478
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies necessitated all of artificial flavorings so

479
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: that they didn't taste so still so boring and the

480
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: words of this ad Providing taste appeal for foods lacking

481
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: either sugar or salt, and sometimes both is an extremely

482
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: difficult problem, and flavor differences in some degree are inevitable. However,

483
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: the flavor chemists can, by diligent research, provide an acceptable

484
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: flavor of such foods. Like acceptable, that's such a low bar.

485
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of true, though, oh yeah, absolutely. Some things

486
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: I read suggested companies designed artificial flavors to lack an aftertaste,

487
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: which encouraged you to eat more of their product. And

488
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how true that is. I didn't have

489
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: time to like dig into it, but I have heard

490
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: similar things recently, so I thought i'd mentioned it. Another

491
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: thing we have to come back to. This episode is

492
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: full of like this path, this path, this path, Oh yeah,

493
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: to choose your own adventure. In the nineteen seventies, the

494
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: chemical synthesis of Vanillen pushed ahead with new ways to

495
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: chip cheaply, not simply cheaply. Some size of vanillin from

496
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: various chemical precursors, including guaya cole, which is a byproduct

497
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: of the petroleum industry, and lingnan, which is a byproduct

498
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: of the wood and paper industries. These methods of production

499
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: of synthesis are cheap, but they're not always great environmentally speaking. Um,

500
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: you've got to use some hazardous solvents and other chemicals

501
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: to produce and purify your vanillen for lignant. For example,

502
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: every kilo of vanillan that you make creates a hundred

503
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: and sixty kilos of waste that you have to figure

504
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: out how to safely dispose of, and products that use

505
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: these synthesized vanillans have to be labeled artificial, which consumers

506
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: don't always like. Those finicky consumers. Of course, we should say.

507
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: Natural flavors can also take an environmental toll. Agriculture uses

508
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: tremendous amounts of resources and can use harmful chemicals too. Um.

509
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: That's why traditionally, artificial flavors have been so much cheaper

510
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: than natural flavors until in two thousand and nine, researchers

511
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: were able to make a type of yeast that makes

512
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: vanilla flavored bacteria foop after feasting on sugar it excretes vanillan.

513
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: This means they can technically label it as natural. This

514
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: natural vanillan went on sale in the US, but not

515
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: without controversy, especially from the anti GMO crowd. Other obligatory note,

516
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: there's no reason to distrust genetically modified foods and food

517
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: products as a whole. It's actually a super impressive feat

518
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: to get yeast in bacteria to create vanilla plants make

519
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: it as an anti microbial. Its whole job in plants

520
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: is to not is to kill bacteria, so it tends

521
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: to be toxic to microbes. That's pretty pretty neat. Yeah,

522
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's there's a lot of bacteria and yeast

523
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: being genetically modified and and farmed to produce natural flavors

524
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: these days. Yes, and their next goal is I bet

525
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: you can guess, engineer a natural calorie free sugar. Yeah,

526
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: and they have a lot of funding behind them to succeed.

527
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: Um and here, Yeah, this finally brings us to the

528
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: most important question. Yes, what the heck is blue raspberry?

529
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: What is it? Why is it blue? I don't know,

530
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: actually I do. This is the thing that like I

531
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: really wanted to know in this whole episode. Okay, the

532
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: answer takes us back to the summers of the early

533
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: nine I remember them not at all. Oh, but I

534
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: can imagine on these hot summer days, kids were reaching

535
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: for a cool treat in the form of flavor ice

536
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: pops or otter pops. And yet those are the clear

537
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: tubes of icy sugar that have probably been in your

538
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: freezer since you've owned one. You don't know how they

539
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: got there there there though, Yeah, we've got some in

540
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: our freezer. I have no idea really, yeah. Um. The

541
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: problem with these ice pops is that they were limited

542
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: to four flavors at the time, cherry, strawberry, watermelon, and raspberry,

543
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: all of which are shades of red, and it made

544
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: it kind of hard to differentiate between flavors. Hard but doable.

545
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: And the f d A came out with research suggesting

546
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: red number two, the die responsible for the red color,

547
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: was very bad for your health. So these popsicle companies

548
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: switched it up, um, using different dyes to get the

549
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: shades of red and pink. But these new dyes were

550
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: either more expensive and or possibly worse for you health wise. Um,

551
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: the popsicles, I guess I should say pops ice pups

552
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: companies set their eyes on. An alternative at the time,

553
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: the blue raspberry flavored icy. You know those frozen eated

554
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: fun things, right, that's they're saying, I didn't come up

555
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: with that frozenated frozen ated fun h Okay, you get

556
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: him a like, yeah, movie theaters or gas stations. Yeah. Um.

557
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: They had been out on the scene since nineteen seventy.

558
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: It was basically a raspberry flavored icy, but died blue

559
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: with F D and C number one instead of red

560
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: with red number two. And actually the flavor behind blue

561
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: raspberry is more similar to BlackBerry, something called white bark raspberry.

562
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: Still though that berry isn't blue. Um, it's the reddish purple,

563
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: and it does take on a bluish hue when ripe,

564
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: but it's definitely not blue raspberry. Blue white bark raspberry

565
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: flavor plus F D and C blue number one equals

566
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: blue raspberry. The color was chosen in part because children

567
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: are drawn to bright colors um, as observed in the

568
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: case of lemonade versus pink lemonade sales. Apparently pink lemonade

569
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: way out cells lemonade UM. Once the popsicle companies started

570
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: selling pops of this flavor, it became a regular one

571
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: of the greatest mysteries of life. So oh and by

572
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: the way, one thirty two millions sixteen ounce blue raspberry

573
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: ices are consumed every year in the US. Oh yeah,

574
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: that's a lot. Um, We've shot her speechless. She had

575
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: to sit back in her chair to take a break

576
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: after that one. All right. Back in the early two thousands,

577
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: consumers kind of kind of took up this redde number

578
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: two rally again UM and started pushing back against artificial

579
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: ingredients UM based on those nineteen seventies studies and a

580
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: couple other newer ones that were linking UM artificial colors

581
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: and preservatives to hyperactive behavior in children. And if you'll remember,

582
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: this was when a d D and a d h

583
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: D were the huge concerns. Everyone was, you know, like,

584
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: is mine, does my child have this affliction? How will

585
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: they survive? Not that it's not a big certain it

586
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: certainly is, and it's anyway. UM. Huge corporations took notice

587
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: of this and began research to replace these artificial ingredients

588
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: to retain their marketability, and Nestle Company made the trend

589
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: official in when they announced that they would be removing

590
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: and replacing all artificial color flavors and preservatives in their

591
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: entire line of confections in the UK, that is Nest.

592
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: The USA would make the same announcement a couple of

593
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: years later. The movement just hooked up with the Whole

594
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: like organic Whole Foods health blog kind of trend and snowballed. Yeah,

595
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: and then we talked about that in our Cheddar episode

596
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: of Macaroni and Cheese getting rid of it, and so

597
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: many um companies now are trying to get rid of

598
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: and again it's not unfortunately like like more research needs

599
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: to be done to see whether or not these things

600
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: are actually harmful. But yeah, I guess it's driving our

601
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: important chemists industry. Yeah, those flavor is hard work out there.

602
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: You've got your work cut out for you. This episode

603
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: has so many, so many things I want to look

604
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: in two more and including this. I read a company

605
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: in London is trying to bring three course dinner chewing

606
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: gum from Charlie and the Chocolate factory to life, obviously

607
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: with the help of artificial flavoring future fictional foods. Oh

608
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: my god, why haven't we thought about a Willie Walk episode? Yet? Okay, yes,

609
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I know, And and then I thought of deff beer

610
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: from The Simpsons, and I added that to the last two.

611
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: Our list is ever growing excellent. Yes, this brings us

612
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: to the end of um artificial flavoring, with a little

613
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: note that there's many things we must return to. Yes,

614
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: I'm particularly interested in color, the association with color and food.

615
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: That was so fascinating. Color psychology is always really great

616
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 1: to look into. Yes, and that brings us to the

617
00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: end of this classic episode. We hope you enjoyed it, um,

618
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: and also if you're doing any I was just thinking

619
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: about this today because I my baking project of the

620
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: holidays is usually I was trying to think of when

621
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: I use artificial flavors. It's usually gingerbread cookies, and I'll

622
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: do a like icing and dies and candies and so

623
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: it's not as much artificial flavoring. So I was just

624
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: trying to think of things. But you listeners, we always

625
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: love to hear about whatever baking or cooking projects you

626
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: are embarking on. Oh oh, absolutely, and I'm sure that

627
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: y'all are getting up to some um, some really spectacular ones. Um.

628
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: We are also pulling together the the mail for the

629
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: last listener mail of one I know, yes, so so yeah,

630
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: so now is now is the time? If if you

631
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: have something to send to us? Yes for ninth listener

632
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: Mail episode of which I'm already work shopping the titles,

633
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: but you probably know what will be what it will be? Yes,

634
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: please please please send us your notes and letters. You

635
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: can email us at Hello at savor pod dot com.

636
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: We are also on social media. You can find us

637
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod and we

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Speaker 1: do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio four more podcasts from my Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: You can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening, and we hope that lots more

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Speaker 1: good things are coming your way