1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg World headquarters the New York I'm Doug Prisoner. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Radio at about the five fifty six 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Wall Street time, covering the breaking news that Donald Trump 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: has been indicted in New York for directing hush money 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: payments to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: You're with special coverage here on Bloomberg Radio. I'm joined 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: by our legal analyst June Grosso in the Bloomberg Interactive 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Broker studio in New York. We had been debating for 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: days on when this was going to occur, if it 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: was going to occur at all. This is one of 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: several cases that the president could be facing. And so 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: now we know that the grand jury has voted to indict. 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: And you know, we can't overstate what a historic day 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: this is. This is the first prosecution ever, the first 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: criminal charges ever against a former president. And yes, it 16 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: seemed that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg had backed off 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: because there had been all this last week commotion that 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: last week was going to be when there was this indictment. 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: And then we heard that the grand jury was going 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: to be off until April for the Eastern mister break. 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: So this came as quite a shock that they have 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: already voted, and I mean, listen, they've been considering this 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: for quite some time. They were just hearing the very 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: last witnesses. And by the way, the very last witness 25 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: was I think Pecker, right, and he was brought in 26 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: we think to robut what had been said about Michael 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Cohen by a former legal advisor to him? So who 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: is David Pecker? Again? Remind me this was the catch 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: and kill scenario? Right? He was the publisher of the 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: National Inquirer, I believe, yes, So he captured the story 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: and then tried to bury it so that it couldn't 32 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: come out during the campaign. Right, So he was there, 33 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: we think to buttress Michael Cohen's testimony because Cohen is 34 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: a problematic witness, and he will likely be the star 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: witness here. He's a problematic witness because he is a 36 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: convicted felon, convicted for lying to Congress. So right away, 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: right there, you have a problem with this kind of 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: a witness. But as prosecutors tell you, you know, they 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: can't present priests and acquire boys to a jury. They 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: have to present who they have and they're usually someone 41 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: who's associated with the crime. So he does have a 42 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: lot going for him, but a lot going against him. 43 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: So they brought in after one of his former attorneys 44 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: came forward, and Trump's lawyers requested that he testified to 45 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: the grand jury. And you're a lot to do that 46 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: in New York. So they requested aim of kind of 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: eroding the credibility of Cohen exactly just as if just 48 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: like Trump was invited himself to testify to the grand jury. 49 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: Of course he didn't, and that's a very smart move 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: on his side not to come forward. So but you 51 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: can't ask to have a witness come forward. So they 52 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: asked to have this former attorney, former advisor to Michael Cohen, 53 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: and he said some things that you tried to undermine 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: Cohen's integrity, that he lied about this to him in 55 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: the past. And so then all of a sudden, it 56 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: seemed as if things came to a halt. Then they 57 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: brought in Packer to buttress Michael Cohen. The thing about 58 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: this whole grand jury investigation you've heard came from a 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: New York Court of Appeal judge. Prosecutor can get a 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: grand jury to indict a ham Sandwich in this case, 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: it seemed like Alvin Bragg was almost trying the case, 62 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: not just presenting it to the grand jury so that 63 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: he'd get an indictment, but almost trying the case. And 64 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: perhaps it was an attempt to see how the case 65 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: would flesh out. Perhaps because it's such it's the first indictment, 66 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: there's going to be so much press on this, There's 67 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: going to be so much on this. Perhaps he wanted 68 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: to make sure that he had every eye dotted in 69 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: t cross And a big question is to what happens 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: in Georgia because there is another case there very much 71 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: of the focus of or on any interference with the 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: election that was going on in twenty sixteen or twenty 73 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: I want to get blend together. Yeah, they do, really. 74 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: I want to get to Ed Baxter, who is in 75 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg newsroom in San Francisco during our special coverage 76 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: as we learned that a former President Trump has now 77 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: been indicted by the District Attorney in Manhattan for directing 78 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: hush money payments to a porn star during the twenty 79 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: sixteen campaign. M. Yeah, I'm sure you're you're looking at 80 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,239 Speaker 1: wires and different types of reaction. What are you seeing yeah, 81 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm seeing a lot of stuff. But what I want 82 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: to ask june A Doug if I may, is what 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: happens next? Now? I mean Donald Trump was out, remember 84 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: the famous I'm going to be indicted on Tuesday line, 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: said that he wanted to figure out what he was 86 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: going to wear, should he wear a tie? How public 87 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: is this going to be? And I understand and correct 88 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that he's a maralgo. Where does 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: this go next? What is the process? So what will 90 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: happen in this case? I've talked to several people and 91 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: they say, you know, he's not going to be treated 92 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: like the ordinary citizen. He's going to be treated like 93 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: the extra ordinary citizen. So a high profile citizen. They're 94 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: going to tell his lawyers. I think Joe Takapino, one 95 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: of his lawyers, has already said that he heard about this. 96 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: So what they're going to do is they're going to 97 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: request and arrange a date for him to come in 98 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: and turn himself in. So there's not going to be 99 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: that perp walk that people may have been expecting. He's 100 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: not going to We don't think he's going to be 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: put in handcuffs. But apparently this is all going to 102 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: be worked out between Alvin Bragg's office and his attorneys 103 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: how they want to handle this. But he will have 104 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: to be booked, He'll have to have be fingerprinted and 105 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: have his mug shot taken, and they'll have to be 106 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: an appearance in court where it's expected they're not going 107 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: to request bail or anything. He's going to be sent 108 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: out on his own recognizance. But those details have to 109 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: be done. But you know, how big a deal it 110 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: is may depend more on Donald Trump than anyone else. 111 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: Does he want to make this a big deal? So 112 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: there would be ostensibly an arrangement right when he's charged, 113 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: But after that, I mean a delay. Is that probably 114 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: what we're going to see. Is there a way for 115 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: the Trump legal team to kind of slow the process. 116 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: There will be motion upon motion upon motion upon motion 117 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: to delay the process and to attack the you know, 118 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: the evidence that the district attorney has, and um, you 119 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: know you're going to see a lot happen in the 120 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: courtroom and a lot happen outside the courtroom. And I 121 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: think a lot of this depends on how hard Alvin 122 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: Bragg is going to push for a trial date that's close. 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Trump also remember the trial is coming up 124 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: where Attorney General Letitia James is suing Trump and his company. 125 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: That's coming up. Now that's a civil complaint though right right, 126 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: it is a civil and criminal would take precedence. But 127 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: I'm just saying there's a lot there are a lot 128 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: of balls in the air here with Trump and what's happening. 129 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: So you know, I have no idea when the trial 130 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: would actually be set for ed now going down the 131 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: road though, I mean, this has been from what's been leaked, 132 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: and grand jury always is supposed to be secret. But 133 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned that, you know, a very thin case. It's 134 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: a very creative case, if we can put it that 135 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: way at the very least. I mean, this is something 136 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: that he would go down the road of definitely with 137 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: any trial, he could be acquitted. And that has all 138 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: kinds of ramifications as well, exactly. And the case is 139 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: it's a novel legal theory. It's sort of, you know, 140 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: to explain it simply, it's sort of hooks one misdemeanor 141 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: crime onto a felony in order to make it a felony. 142 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: So the misdemeanor would be falsifying business records, which is 143 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: they did not they did not record this hush money 144 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: payment as it should have been recorded it as legal fees, 145 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: I believe, and then the prosecutors have to show an 146 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: intend to defraud and that would be a violation of 147 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: election law. So the theory is that the second kind 148 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: of hooks on the first, and then you get the 149 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: the excuse me, the felony, which is what they want 150 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: because it just you know, hush money payments. That would 151 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: just be a misdemeanor of falsifying business record. June, we 152 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: have Robert Mints with us. He is the former I'll 153 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: be able to explain. Well, you're going to ask the 154 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: first question, let me do the introduction. He is a 155 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor and now partner at mcarter and English. 156 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Mister Mints, thanks for being with us first, right out 157 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: of the gate, let me get your reaction. Sure, well, 158 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: it's not surprising really, because of Manhattan District Attorney's office 159 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: has been ramping up this investigation for some time. It's 160 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: public knowledge that the grand jury has been meeting and 161 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: as was close to returning an indictment. And still it's 162 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: shocking to believe that this has actually occurred, that an 163 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: indictment has been returned. And the first former president to 164 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: face criminal charges that case will actually go forward. It's 165 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: still something that is shocking that this has actually come 166 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: to pass. So, Bob, we don't know what the grand 167 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: jury exactly indicted on, but we have an eye idea. 168 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: So tell us about how they're going to use this 169 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: misdemeanor and try to make it into a felony. Well, 170 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: the core of this case is under New York while 171 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: falsifying business records, which can be a crime, and that's 172 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: really the bread and butter for the white collar section 173 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: of the District Attorney's Obviously they charge this falsification of 174 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: business records all the time, something that's not unusual. But here, 175 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: in order to turn this crime into a felony rather 176 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: than a misdemeanor, they have to tie it to a 177 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: second crime. And in this case, it appears that what 178 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: the case is going to turn on is whether or 179 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: not this concealment of these business records as falsifying of 180 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: these business records also as a violation of federal election 181 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: law and the facts here, which really is something that 182 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: is out there now, there's no secret to what this 183 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: case is going to be about. It's going to hinge 184 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: on the handling of this PA and one hundred and 185 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars which Michael Khone, the former president's lawyer, 186 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: has said he used to pay off Stormy Daniels in 187 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: order to conceal an alleged affair that President Trump had 188 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: with Stormy Daniels leading into the election. And the question 189 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: here the links beIN really of this whole case is 190 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: going to be the district attorney's ability to prove that 191 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: that money was paid in order to affect the election 192 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: and not for some other reasons. So a defense here, 193 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: for example, that the firm president could raise his Yes, 194 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: I paid that money. He denies that he had the affair, 195 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: but he said he's going to say, I would expect 196 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: that he paid the money in order to save the 197 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: embarrassment to his family and to his wife, and that's 198 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: why he paid off the Stormy Daniels through Michael Kane. 199 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: The government is going to have to prove the d 200 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: is going to have to prove that it was done 201 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: for the purpose of affecting the election and not merely 202 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: in order to preserve the president's public image and to 203 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: save his family from embarrassment. So, Bob, is this just 204 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: novel legal theory or is there a precedent for anything 205 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: like this where you begin with kind of the misdemeanor 206 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: violation and then you pivot and then use that as 207 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: the basis for a kind of a federal charge or 208 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: a criminal charge on on a federal level. Yes, I 209 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: mean that's a great question. I'm not aware of New 210 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: York State prosecutors ever having filed an election law case 211 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: involving a federal campaign before. So this case is novel. 212 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: It's an untested case that no one has brought before 213 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: from the Manhattan DA's office, and it's susceptible to being 214 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: attacked both at the trial level, and even if they 215 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: gain a conviction, it's susceptible to potentially being thrown out 216 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: on appeal. So it is a high risk gambit for 217 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: the Manhattan District Attorney's office to bring this case because 218 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: it is an untested area, and generally prosecutors like to 219 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: stay away from untested areas in civil litigation. You might 220 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: want to bring a case that's never been brought before, 221 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: But as prosecutors, generally, the idea is the law has 222 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: to be black and white. You want to know what's 223 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: right or what's wrong, and you don't want to be 224 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: bringing a case that has never been tested in the 225 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: courts before, because you might go through an entire trial, 226 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: you might even gain a conviction, and then it might 227 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: get thrown out on appeal. Bob. There's also the question 228 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: of whether hush money payment can be a campaign donation. 229 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you remember what happened with the prosecution of 230 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Senator John Edwards, and I see that the Trump team 231 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: has at times raised that They've said he didn't pay 232 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: this hush money because of the campaign. He paid this 233 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: hush money because he wanted to save his wife, Milania 234 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: from being embarrassed. So that's may come up that kind 235 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: of a defense here, Jordan. That exactly was the defense 236 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: in the John Edwards case. That was the situation. If 237 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: you're a call where Senator Edwards wife was battling cancer 238 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: and they was a third party who paid off somebody, 239 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: and that was part of the defense, and it worked. 240 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: There was an acquittal in that case where the jury 241 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: could not decide whether the money was paid for the 242 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: purpose of protecting his position as somebody running for president, 243 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: or whether it was done in order to protect his 244 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: wife and his family. And the prosecutors here are going 245 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: to be facing exactly the same dilemma. So, Bobby, one 246 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: question is it regards you in regard to the investigation 247 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: going on for five years. Is there a statute of 248 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: limitations on any of this? Well, there's a statue of 249 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: the limitations on the misdemeanor count of falsifying business records, 250 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: which has expired. So the only way prosecutors can bring 251 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: this case is by bringing it as a felony, and 252 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: that would be within the statue of the limitations, just 253 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: barely having brought it now, So the case is going 254 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: to rise or fall on their ability to prove this 255 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: felony case. So, Bob, I want to talk a minute 256 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: about Michael colem because so much has been said about 257 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: how he is going to be the star witness and 258 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: all the problems he may encounter, and we saw that there. 259 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: It appears that this indictment may have been delayed because 260 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: the Trump team asked to have one of his former 261 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: advisors come in, who undercut his credibility. So I'm wondering 262 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: how much you think that's really a problem when he's 263 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: been pretty consistent ever since he saw the light, let's 264 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: say about about his position. So he's been pretty consistent 265 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: about what he's said. Yeah, we know Michael Cohen has 266 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: been in and out of the DA's office for a 267 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: long time now, and we also know that he has 268 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: produced these checks that were written by President Trump to 269 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: him as reimbursement for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars 270 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: that he paid personally to Stormy Daniels. And so there 271 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: is a record here that seems to be consistent with 272 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Michael's co own testimony. On the other hand, we don't 273 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: know else Michael Cohen may upset to prosecutors. We do 274 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: know that he has told differing stories over time, and 275 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: so he is going to be, in many ways the 276 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: central focus of this case, and we don't know what 277 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: else might be out there to potentially impeach his credibility. 278 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: There was another case, there is another case going on 279 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: in Georgia. We had the special grand jury meet in 280 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: that case and recommend indictments. We don't have a lot 281 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: of visibility into who may be indicted as far as 282 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: I know, and I was asking June this question earlier, Bob, 283 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: whether or not that prosecutor in that case has convened 284 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: a grand jury now with the idea of pursuing criminal charges. 285 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: Talk to me about the context of both of these 286 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: cases seeming to kind of almost coincide with one another, 287 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering whether prosecutors would wait for the other 288 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: to kind of make the first move. Is that part 289 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: of the strategy here? If there is one, Well, that's 290 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: really hard to say. These cases have taken a long time. 291 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: I think from the standpoint of somebody like myself who 292 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: was a federal prosecutor for ten years and who's been 293 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: following these cases, they've taken a long time to work 294 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: their way through the system and to get to where 295 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: we are today. We know, for example, that federal prosecutors 296 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: who charged Michael Khne Michael Kon as we know, pled 297 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: guilty to these campaign violations, but federal prosecutors never took 298 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: the additional step to charge President Trump. So they looked 299 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: at this evidence and decided for whatever reason, and we 300 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: don't know why, but they decided not to bring the 301 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: federal case against President Trump at the time that they 302 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: charged Michael Khone. The case going on in Georgia is 303 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: a completely separate case regarding the president's elect interference with 304 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: the election. That also has taken a long time. I 305 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: think one of the things that we're seeing here, though, 306 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: is while on the one hand, prosecutors like to take 307 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: their time because they only get one shot really to 308 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: get it right. You cannot go back usually fix these problems. 309 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: Once you bring this indictment, the clock is then running, 310 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: and everything then favors the defense in the sense that 311 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: they have the right to a speedy trial, They have 312 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: a right to their day in court. As the prosecutor, 313 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: you better have all your ducks lined up, all your facts, 314 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: all your witnesses set into place before you bring that indictment. 315 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: So they want to take their time and get it right. 316 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: On the other hand, they are racing against the political 317 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 1: clock because they are not unmindful of the fact that 318 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: there is an election coming up, the fact that President 319 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 1: Trump is an announced candidate, There's primaries coming up, and 320 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the closer that any indictment gets to these primaries and 321 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: to a potential presidential election, the more it looks like 322 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: some kind of attempt to interfere with that election. That's 323 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: not what prosecutors would say they're doing, but they also 324 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: have to be aware of the appearance of that, and 325 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons we're seeing prostitutors 326 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: finally decide one way or the other which way they 327 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: are going to go in these cases. And we saw 328 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: that the Manhattander has decided to bring English indictment. Bob, 329 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: this may be an unfair question, but I'm going to 330 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: ask you anyway. What happens here is for let's say 331 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: Georgia also comes in with an indictment. How do they 332 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: decide which case takes precedent, which case goes first, and 333 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: you know what happens if it does bump into the 334 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: election electioneering? Well, that's a tough one because you've got 335 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: two different judges and two different jurisdictions. They don't really 336 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: control one another, they don't answer to one another, but 337 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: they are mindful of what's going on. You know, typically 338 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: you have a situation where you've got a federal judge 339 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: on a state court judge. The federal case usually takes precedent, 340 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: so you will see a state corp judge decides to 341 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: take have their case sort of put on the back 342 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: burner and allow the federal case to play out. But 343 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: here this case is obviously being brought in state court 344 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: in New York. The case in Georgia would also be 345 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: before a state court judge. So it's really going to 346 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: be up to the prosecutors and the judges who were 347 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: involved here to determine which case is going to take precedent. 348 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: I suspect they'll look at the cases, they'll decide how 349 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: complicated they are. They may look and decide, you know, 350 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: which case seems to be the stronger case or which 351 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: case is more likely to get a conviction, and that 352 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: may play into the decision about which case to bring first. 353 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: But the short answer to your question, Tune, is that 354 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: there is no plea book. There is no rule as 355 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: to which case goes first. And you forgot the special counsel. Oh, 356 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: that would be a federal case that would take precedent 357 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: most definitely. Let's not go there yet, Bob, thanks so 358 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: much for being with us. Robert Mens's former federal prosecutor, 359 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: is also a partner at McCarter and English. This is 360 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Special coverage of the news that broke within the 361 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: last hour or so. Donald Trump has been indicted by 362 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: the New York District Attorney for directing hush money payments 363 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. Let's 364 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: bring in Bloomberg's Politics contributor g Genie Schanzano, who joins us. Now, Genie, 365 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: I know that you and Joe Matthew were talking earlier 366 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: about this as the news broke during your TV program. 367 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to get your reaction. Yeah. I mean, I 368 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: think the word that comes to mind is unprecedented. And 369 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: we don't know what is going to happen. We don't 370 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: know the charges against him, But what we do know 371 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: is that we have a former president who is going 372 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: to have a mug shot and has his fingerprints taken, 373 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: and who can still run for president from behind bars, 374 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: who just the other day went to Waco where his 375 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: campaign designed these signs which talked about a witch hunt, 376 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: and he is going to continue to use that as 377 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: a way to drum up support. And the other thing 378 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: I would say, just today, we're looking at poles which 379 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: show him with a double digit lead in the Republican 380 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: nomination for president. So you know, when you say unprecedented, 381 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: when you say no rule books, that is exactly where 382 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: we are today. And oh, by the way, this is 383 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: the first, as you've been talking about, of many potential prosecutions. 384 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: In other words, the or indictments, I should say, in 385 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: other words, only the beginning and what is going to 386 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: unfold to be a real, you know, contentious and sort 387 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: of unpredictable election season as we move into twenty four. 388 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: Let's bring in Joe Matthew next. He is Bloomberg's Washington correspondent. 389 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: I want to correct what I just said earlier, Joe, 390 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: I thought Cheney joined you today on the TV program 391 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: when this news broke. I guess that wasn't the radio 392 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: program earlier. Okay, but you were on television when this 393 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: news broke. It was first reported by the New York 394 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: Times during your roundtable discussions. What are some of the 395 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: angles that you were able to tease out on this? Well, 396 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just depends who you want to 397 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: ask here. One of the questions we've been asking is 398 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: what's the response from Democrats and specifically the administration. The 399 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: answer is none. They're not weighing in on this, and 400 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: it says a lot about the posture of a president 401 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: in the case of Joe Biden, who's considering announcing a 402 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: run for reelection. On the other hand, we saw other 403 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: Democrats like Maxine Waters celebrating this, which really could it 404 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: be a political risk if it does fulfill the narrative 405 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: that Trump supporters have that this is a political attack. 406 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: I do want to mention I spent some time with 407 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: Lannie Davis earlier this week. That's Michael Cohen's lawyer, and 408 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: he just sent me a statement on this, because you know, 409 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen went to jail. He actually did jail time 410 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: for this, for providing the payments that he says he 411 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: was reimbursed by from Donald Trump. Michael Cohen, he writes, 412 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: made the brave decision to speak truth to power and 413 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: accept the consequences, and has done so ever since. I'm 414 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: proud to have been his lawyer and his friend through 415 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: this long journey on the path to justice and accountability. 416 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: So that's the side the message coming from Michael cohenside. 417 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: We also heard from MAGA Inc statement from Taylor Buddh 418 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: which at MAGA Pack says, this is not an indictment 419 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: of a crime, there was no crime. Instead, this news 420 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: is the indictment of a failed nation. That sounds a 421 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: lot like what we heard from President Trump last weekend 422 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: in Waco. Doug He says that they're coming after me 423 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: because they can't beat me at the ballot box. He 424 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: calls this a new form of election interference. But he 425 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: was able to do a great deal of fundraising as 426 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: a result of he said it right. He sure did 427 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: that day that he said I'll be arrested on Tuesday. 428 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: That goes back to tuesdays now. He raised an enormous 429 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: amount of money, and I suspect that more fundraising emails 430 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: will go out now that it's actually happened. To Genie's point, 431 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: he gets potentially several more turns here. Fulton County, Georgia 432 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: and the Special Council here in Washington are making great progress. 433 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: We actually thought we'd hear from Georgia first. I don't 434 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: know how Genie would agree with me on this, but 435 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: that would suggest that we could hear from Fulton County 436 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: literally any day. Now. Imagine now not only the first 437 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: ever indictment of a former president who happens to be 438 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: seeking reelection, but it would be the first ever multiple 439 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: indictments at once. Genie, you want to weigh in on 440 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: that the Georgia case. Yeah, I think we're what we're 441 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: going to hear in reaction to that, And as Joe mentioned, 442 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: it's a stunning, absolute possibility, you know, is what Jim 443 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: Jordan tweeted, you have a representative in Congress, a leader 444 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: on the Republican side, tweeting outrageous in response to this indictment. 445 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: So you can imagine if the Fulton County prosecutor comes 446 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: down with another indictment. And the challenge here is do 447 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: these multiple indictments seem to Trump reporters and quite frankly 448 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: many on the Republican side, as what Joe described as 449 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: election interference. And this allows Donald Trump to portray himself 450 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: as a victim. And his message has always been not 451 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: just that he's a victim, but that his supporters are 452 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: a victim, that this is a witch hunt not just 453 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: against him, but of them. And he always says, if 454 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: they can do this to me, they'll do this to you. 455 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: So that's what we'll expect to hear from the campaign. 456 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: And I think if we do hear of Fulton County indictment, 457 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: and let's not forget about the federal potential indictments that 458 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: could come down, we are going to hear that in 459 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 1: steroids as we see these multiple mug shots of Donald Trump. 460 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz on a conservative network just after this indictment 461 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: is announced, says he's going to use that mug shot 462 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: potentially Donald Trump as a poster for his presidential campaign. 463 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: Imagine that. Well, but Joe, that's an interesting point. I 464 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: mean Donald Trump. By the way, guys, this is the 465 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: first time we're hearing from him. This is a it's long, 466 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: it looks like a newspaper article. But I'll just give 467 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: you a couple of highlights. This is political persecution and 468 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: election interference at the highest level in history. From the 469 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: time I came down the Golden escalator at Trump Tower, 470 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: the radical left Democrats have been engaged in a witch 471 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: hunt to destroy the Make America Again movement. Now I'm 472 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: going to do a little site editing here. Never before 473 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: in our nation's history has this been done. He goes 474 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: on to say Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg handpicked and funded 475 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: by George Soros, and we continue to hear that dog 476 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: whistle is a disgrace. He goes on further to right, 477 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: I believe this witch hunt will backfire. Are massively on 478 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, and he uses the word we here. We 479 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: will defeat Joe Biden. We are going to throw every 480 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: last one of these crooked Democrats out of office so 481 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: we can make America great again. There you have it 482 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: now at six twenty two pm Eastern time, the statement 483 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: from Donald J. Trump, Joe, I want to bring in 484 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: June Grasso, who is our legal expert here in the 485 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: New York studio. June. We know that the Department of 486 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: Justice now has Jack Smith a special council working on 487 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: two separate cases. Does this necessarily slow in any way 488 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: his intention or strategy, not at all, And he is 489 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: moving at warp speed. You just found out this week 490 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: that Mike Pence has been ordered to testify by a 491 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: judge to testify to the grand jury in that case, 492 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: the case involving January sixth, an investigation into whether Donald 493 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: Trump or his allies had any criminal activities with regard 494 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: to January sixth. So he's moving forward. He's got he's 495 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: got people coming in from lets. His lawyer, he had 496 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: his lawyer, Evan Corkrane come in and they've been fighting 497 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: all these different subpoenas and they've won all of them 498 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: as far as I can, as far as I know. 499 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: So they've won all these subpoenas with really unusual kinds 500 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: of arguments. Evan Corkrane, they used an argument that it 501 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: was an attorney client privilege, and they came back with 502 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: a crime fraud exception to that, and Mike Pence used 503 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: the theory that it was based on the speech or 504 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: debate clause, and the judge said, you can use that 505 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: for some of it, but you can't use it for 506 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: all of it, because everything you did that day was 507 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: not related to your activities on the floor of the House. 508 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: So I'm just saying they are moving really fast. They're 509 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: getting a lot of witnesses that the January sixth Committee 510 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: couldn't get, and that I don't think anyone else has 511 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: gotten either, Mark Meadows, So I think that they're moving 512 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: very quickly, and I don't think that and there if 513 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: they indict, that will take precedence over the state investigations 514 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: will move forward first. That's interesting, Joe. What do we 515 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: know about a reaction either from let's say, Ronda Santis 516 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: or Nicky Haley, any of the other candidates that are 517 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: chasing the GOP nomination. We haven't heard from candidates yet. 518 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: We have heard from a number of lawmakers on both 519 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: sides of the Aisle Adam Schiff Democrat of course Thorn 520 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: on the side of Donald Trump, whose years in the 521 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: White House and in fact was an impeachment. Manager says 522 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: the indictment of a former president is unprecedented, but so 523 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: too is the unlawful conduct in which Trump has been engaged. 524 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: We saw a celebratory statement from Maxine Waters. We've also 525 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: heard very different statements from some Republicans, and they're calling 526 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: this a witch hunt. So so far it, Douget's been 527 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: very predictable. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm just 528 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: really curious to hear what happens when centrists are called 529 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: to speak about this, particularly Democrats who want in Trump districts, 530 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: Republicans who want in Biden districts and have a potential 531 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: a lot to lose if they say the wrong thing 532 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: in the next cycle. So, Genie, neither a criminal charge 533 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: nor a conviction would disqualify mister Trump in any way 534 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: from running or even serving as president. And I'm probably 535 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: going to bet that he is going to proceed here 536 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: full more without kind of tripping over any of these 537 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: legal stumbling blocks. I mean, he knows what he's wants 538 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: and he's going to get there. Yeah. I mean, his 539 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: team has been preparing for this. I think it's clear 540 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: that they did not expect it today. They thought that 541 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: the grand jury was going to be out, they had 542 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: a little bit of time, so I think the timing 543 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: of this coming this afternoon was a shock, but the 544 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: fact that he might be indicted not a shock at all. 545 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: They've been preparing for this. That's why they have the 546 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: witch hunt posters printed. And he is going to run. 547 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen this before. Eugene V. Debs in 548 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty sits in prison for espionage and runs for president. 549 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: So it is absolutely constitutional for him to do it, 550 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: and he has said he will do it, and in fact, 551 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: he is going to use it. He says to make 552 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: the case that he is, as Joe was talking about, 553 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: the victim of political persecution, the victim of election interference, 554 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: that this has been a plan by Democrats. And he 555 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: uses these sort of tropes that he talks about in 556 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: these statements about Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan Day and others 557 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: that are xenophobic and racist. He's used them and tried 558 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: to use them to his advantage. And of course I'm 559 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: looking right now at the Real Clear Politics average. He 560 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: is seventeen points ahead in the Real Clear Politics average. 561 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: So his numbers, by the way, in the last month 562 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: have double digit gone up. So if anybody thinks that 563 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: he is sort of, you know, going to be a 564 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: victimized by this in terms of his support in the 565 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: Republican side, we haven't seen that in the polls yet. 566 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: Of course, the indictment just coming out now, so maybe 567 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: that changes in the next couple of weeks. Joe, talk 568 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: to me a little bit about the reaction that may 569 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: happen from on the part of Trump's supporters to today's 570 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: news and the concern. I'm I'm sure in a number 571 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: of jurisdictions that there could be a level of protesting 572 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: that may risk on I don't want to say violence 573 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: or anything like that, but you know what I'm talking about. Well, yeah, 574 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we can say there's been a 575 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: lot of concern about this. I'm glad you brought it up, Doug. 576 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: There's a reason why barricades are up in front of 577 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: the courthouse in New York. There's a reason why the 578 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: barricades went back up around the Capitol here in Washington. 579 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: When the former president says, you know, kind of following 580 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: up on his it'll be wild a tweak going back 581 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: to January six, we says, protest save our country calling 582 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: for the potential, at least as he said he didn't. 583 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: He didn't call for it, but he was warning of 584 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: the potential for death and destruction. We haven't seen this 585 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: happen yet, though, Doug. You know, when this first was 586 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: brought to our attention by the former president saying is 587 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: going to be arrested to tuesdays ago, there were more 588 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: reporters than protesters in outside that courthouse. And it does 589 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: make you wonder after what we saw in January six 590 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: the hundreds of people who are actually in jail, what 591 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: they did attacking our capital, if they know better. The 592 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: real concern from authorities we've talked to here is a 593 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: lone wolf, somebody driving into the barricade at the capital, 594 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: somebody doing something stupid in front of the courthouse, as 595 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,479 Speaker 1: opposed to an organized event, an organized attack like we 596 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: saw in January sixth. Yeah, most definitely big concern. June 597 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: final thoughts, as we kind of rap, I'm sort of 598 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: numb because we were expecting this for so long, and 599 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: then we sort of put it aside and started to 600 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: think that maybe it wouldn't happen. I mean, this is 601 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: going to be an incredible case, whether it's a misdemeanor 602 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: and a felony hook together. But it's going to be 603 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: an incredible case and we'll see something that we've never 604 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: seen before. We'll see how a president is treated in 605 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: a criminal trial. It's going to be you know, I 606 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: have only superlatives right now. Okay, Well, I want you 607 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: to stick around, June, because we're going to be speaking 608 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: with Michael Zelden in a moment. I want to say 609 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: goodbye and thanks to Joe Matthew, who is a Bloomberg 610 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: Washington correspond and Jeanie Shanzano, who is a Bloomberg Politics contributor, 611 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: joining us as we unpack the news of the last hour, 612 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump being indicted by the New York District Attorney 613 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: for directing hush hush money payments to a porn star 614 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: during his twenty sixteen campaign. All right, now, let's get 615 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: to our guest. We are joined by Michael Zelden. He 616 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: is a former federal prosecutor and former special counsel to 617 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: Robert Muller. He had worked at the Department of Justice. 618 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: Mister Zelden, thanks for being with us. Let me get 619 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: your reaction right out of the gate. Well, it's a 620 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: little bit surprising As to the timing, we all thought 621 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: that the grand jury was on pause for minutes, so 622 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: that came as a bit of a surprise. As to 623 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: the merits of the case, we have to see the indictment. 624 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: There are people like me who worried about the integrity 625 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: of a case like this, A state pavement of hush 626 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: money tied to a federal election case never been done before. 627 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: Whether it's a viable legal theory remains to be seen. 628 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: So really we're in the oh my god, he's been 629 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: indicted moment, and now let's see what the prosecutors can 630 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: show us gave reason for that indictment. So, Michael, you 631 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: talked about this novel legal theory. Do you think that 632 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: it's something that a judge might dismiss even before the 633 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: case got to trial. Is it that novel? I don't 634 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: know that it would be that novel that it would 635 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: be dismissed before the case, But it could get dismissed 636 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: mid case, you know, after the prosecution rests, the government 637 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: then turns over to defense and they can move him 638 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: to have the case dismissed at that point. But I 639 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: think on the paper it probably won't get dismissed. It 640 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: probably should go to a jury. But it's a great 641 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: question because the theory is novel. We have to wait 642 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: and see whether the court thinks that it's so novel 643 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: that it is worthy of going forward to the jury 644 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: or gets dismissed right out. We just don't know. We 645 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: know the prosecution star witnesses Michael Cohen, and he is 646 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: a felon, He's been convicted and served time. Does that 647 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: majorly erode his credibility in a case like this? Sure? 648 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I saw on the 649 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: news today was that Alan Weisselberg, the CFO of the 650 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: Trump organization who's in jail on unrelated charges, has changed 651 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: lawyers from a Trump paid for a lawyer to a 652 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: new legal team, And that gave me pause to wonder 653 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: when whether he's going to start cooperating, because he's the 654 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: person who can make this case much better than Cohen. He, 655 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: though convicted of a crime, really knows much more about 656 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: the financial dealings than does Michael Cohen. So if you've 657 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: just got to Michael cohen witness and documents and an 658 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 1: argument that this was a payment made not to violate 659 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: through election law, but rather just to protect his family 660 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: from the allegations. It's a very triable case. But they've 661 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: been trying to flip him or prosecutors try to flip 662 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: him for the longest time, and they couldn't. They couldn't 663 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: flip him to testify against Trump. He would testified to 664 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: what happened in the company. But he didn't testify against Trump. 665 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: And he's still being paid by the Trump organization a 666 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: lot of money. Do you really think that he would 667 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: that they'd be able to flip him at this point 668 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: after he's gone to prison. Well, it depends on what 669 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: they have to offer him. For example, if they have 670 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: to offer him another indictment for some type of insurance 671 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: fraud which you've heard about, and he spent time in 672 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: Rikers Island and he knows how unpleasant that is, and 673 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: he's facing the postil he's spending even more time there. 674 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,479 Speaker 1: That might be enough to have him change his mind. 675 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: If they're just saying, please, out of the goodness of 676 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: your heart, do it. There's not a chance when it 677 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: comes to trying to find a jury during the dear process. 678 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean, here we are in Manhattan, and I'm wondering 679 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: whether or not it's going to be very difficult for 680 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: the Trump legal team to even come to an agreement 681 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: with a DA's office on a suitable jury. Is that 682 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: going to be a huge hurtle as well? Well. It's 683 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: going to be a big issue for the judge to 684 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: make sure that the jury's selection process is fair to 685 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: the defendant and fair to the prosecution. And I expect 686 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: that will take a long time. But we have other 687 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: cases that are almost equally famous, though not a former president, 688 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: where they have successfully selected jewelry. So I'm not of 689 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: the mind that they won't be able to do it here. 690 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: It just has to be very carefully undertaken. You can 691 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: have people who have a predisposition of guilt or innocence 692 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 1: prior to their being seated as a juror and listening 693 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: to the evidence that is accepted in the court. How 694 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,479 Speaker 1: much if you had to bet on it? How much 695 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: of a spectacle do you think Donald Trump will try 696 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: to make out of this arrest or do you think 697 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: it's going to be handled as you know all the 698 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: high profile arrests are. He turns himself in, he gets 699 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: you booked, we see the mug shots eventually, but not 700 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: a lot of hoop law. Are you asking whether Donald 701 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: Trump is able to change his spots at this point 702 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: in his life. I think the answer to that probably 703 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: is no. I expect that, as with the other cases 704 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: with lawyers who have begged him to please ratcheted down 705 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: and he has refused, that will be the case here there. 706 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: I don't think any lawyer really wants their client out 707 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: in the public speaking the way the President has spoken 708 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: in previous cases. So I don't think the president is 709 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: capable of change. Lucky, there's no escalator to come down 710 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: to the arraignment. If you're part of the Trump legal team, 711 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: I mean, are you pretty confident that you understand all 712 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: the evidence against your client at this point or could 713 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 1: there be a process of discovery where you learn more 714 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: about the evidence that would be kind of incriminating you 715 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: for your client. I think you have a sense of 716 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: what's going on here evidentually, but of course you want 717 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: to find out more. You want to know there have 718 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: been people going in and out of that grand jury 719 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: for a very long time, there have been documents have 720 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: been presented today grandjury for a very low time, and 721 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: as defense counsel, you're entitled to know about this stuff, 722 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,760 Speaker 1: and so you're going to vigorously seek additional information about 723 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 1: what the charges are. But that said, I think that 724 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: the lawyers for Trump understand pretty fundamentally what's at play here. 725 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: Joan Anything, Well, I'm sort of I think I think we've, 726 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: like I know what, let's talk about the Special counsel 727 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: for a minute and that investigation. Do you think that 728 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: investigation will overtake this investigation? Which of the aspects of 729 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,240 Speaker 1: the Special Council, of the Moro Lago documents or genuinely 730 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: either one? You pick? You pick one. If there's a 731 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: there's a whole realm of possible indictments here, and we'll 732 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: be on air now till about nine tonight. Which is 733 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: the stronger case as you see things at this point? Well, 734 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: it's interesting because both cases now have had very recent 735 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: important developments. In both cases, I believe that the prosecutor 736 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: has needed more direct evidence tying Donald Trump to the activities. 737 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: So in Mara Lago, I think we needed more evidence 738 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: about Trump and the documents and what he said and 739 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: did with respect to those documents. We now know that 740 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: his former lawyer Corkran, who tried to evade testimony assertions 741 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: of executive privilege, has been required to testify and he 742 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: was in the grand jury for three hours. We know 743 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: that the person who worked on Trump's security team that 744 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: actually moved the boxes may well have to testify too, 745 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: So those are very important witnesses to understand whether they 746 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: obstructionist behavior. Similarly, in January six we now know that 747 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows and a whole host of other inner circle 748 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: Trump people have been required to testify in that case. 749 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: So in both cases we're getting inside the sort of 750 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: dome of Trump's inner circle to see what Trump knew 751 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: and did. And I think both of those cases there 752 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: for are in a much stronger position they were a 753 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: week or so ago, which is the more which is 754 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: a stronger case. I think the Mari Lago case is 755 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: the more straightforward case if they can tie Trump to 756 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: obstructing the investigation, that is, he gave directions of any 757 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: sort to not reply to the grandeous speedis I think 758 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: it's a much more cut and dried case. The January 759 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: sixth case of conspiracy to evade, to avoid, and to 760 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: obstruct the transfer power a little bit more complicated case. 761 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: So if I had to pick one or the other, 762 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: if I were prosecutives that pick one or the other 763 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: to try, and I had the evidence to tie Trump 764 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: to the activity. I'll go at the Marlongo doc so 765 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,479 Speaker 1: Michael June made the case earlier that Special Council Jack 766 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: Smith has been moving very, very expeditiously, and I'm wondering 767 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: whether or not the developments today this indictment from the 768 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: New York DA proves to be a little bit of 769 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: an accelerant to that process, does it or does Jack 770 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: Smith continue to move at his own pace irrespective of 771 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: what we've learned today. I think the latter. I think 772 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: that he has to be bound by the law and 773 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 1: facts in his case that this doesn't put any additional 774 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: pressure on him to be second, if you will, I 775 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: think that all of these guys, unless they have a 776 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: statue of limitations like New York had where they had 777 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: to move quickly before the statue of limitations ran out, 778 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: which is still a sort of an issue there, I 779 00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,720 Speaker 1: think these guys have to go at their own pace 780 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: and make their determinations on the facts and the evidence 781 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: that they're able to acquire. Great conversation, Michael, thank you 782 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: so much for making time to chat with us on 783 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: today's developments. He is Michael Zeldon, former federal prosecutor and 784 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Muller when he worked at 785 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice June. Before we get to our 786 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: next guest, is there anything that came out of that 787 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: conversation that caused you to think of something in a 788 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: way maybe that you hadn't thought of previously. Well, I 789 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: think you know, truth be told, we've all discussed these 790 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: cases and they haven't even been brought yet. We've all 791 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: discussed these cases over and over and over again, all 792 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: the little details. I mean, how many cases do you 793 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: know about each subpoena that's been served in all the 794 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: different objections to the subpoena end, do you get a 795 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: comment from the possible defendant on it? So, I think 796 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: that you know, we know the facts. As Bob min 797 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: sends before, the facts are not going to surprise us 798 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: in this case. We know the facts. The question is 799 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: whether putting those facts before a jury and the novel theory, 800 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: whether the jury will convict. Let's bring in Jack Fitzpatrick. 801 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: He is Bloomberg government congressional reporter who joins us on 802 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 1: the line from Washington. Jack, have you had any reaction 803 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: or learned of any reaction on the part of the 804 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: White House not from the White House yet. It'll be 805 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: very interesting to see how they handle this. It is 806 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: such an unprecedented event that it's hard to imagine that 807 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: they will not put out a comment. But at the 808 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,800 Speaker 1: same time, with the legal troubles around former President Trump, 809 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: it's not something that President Biden has engaged in very frequently, 810 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: so it's a difficult position for them. But at this 811 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: point they are They have not put out a statement 812 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: just yet. It is six forty on Wall Street. You're 813 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: listening to a special coverage. Normally it would be Daybreak Asia, 814 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: but we have preempted that programming to cover the indictment 815 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: of former President Donald Trump here in New York City 816 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,879 Speaker 1: by the city's District Attorney, the charge directing hush money 817 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 1: payments to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. 818 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: I say that loosely because June, at this point we 819 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: don't know of the specific charges. I just want to 820 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: be specific about that, and I also want to be 821 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: specific in bringing back into the conversation Bloomberg's Ed Baxter, 822 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: who joins us from our newsroom in San Francisco. Eddie, 823 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: I'll turn things over to you, let me ask Jack. 824 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: Then I want to I want to and I know 825 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: that we've talked about this during the hour, but how 826 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: do mister Trump will try? He's a master of rolling 827 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: this and spenning this. How does he spin it and 828 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 1: actually politically I guess we'll have to wait and see 829 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: some But does this work in his favor? He will 830 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: definitely try to make this work in his favor. It 831 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: raises some questions about how many people will consider this 832 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: something that works in his favor. There is a statement 833 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: out by the former president, a long statement essentially thinking 834 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 1: this is political persecution and election interference. It's a long 835 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,280 Speaker 1: list of his complains about how he's been treated, taking 836 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: shots at the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg considering that he 837 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,959 Speaker 1: got out in front of this. This for his die 838 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: hard supporters could present a fundraising opportunity, but it certainly 839 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: raises questions about how other Republicans respond to it. What 840 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: Ron De Santis has to say, what Nicky Haley has 841 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: to say, what maybe more moderate Republican voters think about this. 842 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: So it may be sort of a split answer in 843 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: terms of if it helps him with some die hard 844 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: supporters but hurts him elsewhere. Now appalling wise, he is 845 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: still acting showing very very very strongly with his base. 846 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: But within the Republican Party, have we seen any signs 847 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 1: whatsoever that an indictment could weaken that support or do 848 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: we know or could have strengthen it. That is very 849 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: difficult to predict, and to be honest, at this point 850 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: when you look at the polls and you see he 851 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: is the front runner in a sense. There was just 852 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: a Fox News poll showing Trump in a theoretical Republican 853 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,240 Speaker 1: primary matchup with fifty four percent, a thirty point advantage 854 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,439 Speaker 1: over RHN DE Santists. But remember that it is still 855 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: March twenty twenty three. Desantists has not launched a campaign. 856 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: People are not coming after him just yet. A lot 857 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: of Republicans are playing this very carefully, maybe alluding to 858 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: it at times. There is a statement by Decantists that 859 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: will alluded to his legal troubles, but really, we won't 860 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: know how this plays in polls one until we get 861 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,120 Speaker 1: the polls in two, until someone whether it's RHN DE 862 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: Santist or some other competition decides to go after him 863 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,520 Speaker 1: and make it an issue and try to really make 864 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: a run. Yeah, Jack's hanging there for a second, because 865 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: we are getting a headline up on the terminal that 866 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: it looks like the arraignment, at least according to CNN, 867 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: will happen our early next week. So June, let me 868 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 1: ask you, and for somebody who's just tuning in to Bloomberg, 869 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: the legal process itself. Obviously, it's not going to be 870 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: as public as the end quotes average citizen. But what 871 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: do we expect for the arraignment and for any kind 872 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: of arrest. Well, first of all, Alvin Bragg's office is 873 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,320 Speaker 1: going to work with Donald Trump's attorneys to arrange him 874 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,360 Speaker 1: turning himself in, so there won't be any purer walk. 875 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,399 Speaker 1: There won't be any handcuffs, though I have heard that 876 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: there have been discussions about whether or not there might 877 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: be handcuffs at some point. That's still an issue apparently, 878 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: but there don't have to be handcuffs. And also, the 879 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 1: Secret Service has been coordinating security plans with the NYPD, 880 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: and the event of an indictment in arraignment, the arraignment 881 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,919 Speaker 1: would take place in open courtroom in Manhattan. Trump would 882 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:59,280 Speaker 1: be fingerprinted and booked before that, and that mug shot 883 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,720 Speaker 1: most likely will find its way to you know, every 884 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: media outlet in the country. So as far as that 885 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: the fingerprinting and the booking that would be done as 886 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: in any other case, and then he'll be arraigned in 887 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,320 Speaker 1: open court. And as I said before, it's it's not likely, 888 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,239 Speaker 1: it's unlikely that he you know, that there would be 889 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,840 Speaker 1: any question of bail or anything like that. They'll release 890 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: him on his own recognizance, and then the next step 891 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,359 Speaker 1: depends on, you know, the judge when the next date 892 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: is that they'll do something in court. But you know, 893 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,919 Speaker 1: a lot of this is up to Donald Trump, whether 894 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: he wants to keep this, you know, just driving down 895 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: to the office and turning himself in, or whether he's 896 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,239 Speaker 1: going to come out of the court house after that 897 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: and appear before his whoever's gathered there. I mean, you 898 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: have to say one thing, The New York Police Department 899 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,920 Speaker 1: is ready for whatever happened. They have barricades up, they 900 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 1: have put special cameras on top of the telephone poles, 901 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,320 Speaker 1: and they're prepared for this. They've dealt with all kinds 902 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: of you know, large groups in different circumstances, and I 903 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: don't think anything will happen in New York. I think 904 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,319 Speaker 1: they're well prepared for what's going to For whatever happens here. Yeah, 905 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 1: and of course there have been just in social media, 906 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: there have been memes there, you know, the late night 907 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,720 Speaker 1: comedians have shown pictures of him behind bars. At this point, 908 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,439 Speaker 1: there's no realistic thinking that he will spend any time 909 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: in jail or is there No. I don't know even 910 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: if he's convicted, if he would spend any time in jail. 911 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: To tell you the truth, just remember this, he travels 912 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,920 Speaker 1: with a Secret Service contingent. So if you even thought 913 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,320 Speaker 1: about putting him in jail with a Secret Service agents 914 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 1: being the cell with him, would they be outside? There's 915 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: no way he will. He will be held in a 916 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: in a prison cell. Yeah, Okay, and Jack then you know, politically, 917 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: he's still doing a lot of stuff on social media 918 00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,359 Speaker 1: and campaign he has announced for the presidency. Does this 919 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,280 Speaker 1: keep him from from doing any of the campaign rallies, 920 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: to do any of campaigning, or do we expect that 921 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,800 Speaker 1: he might even step it up? Well, well, we'll see 922 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: how the exactly how this plays out and what the 923 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: logistics of it are. But I mean it's something he's 924 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,760 Speaker 1: already played up. He also has not been extremely active 925 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: yet because we are early in the presidential cycle for 926 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. He hasn't been, you know, Cris crossing 927 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: the country constantly on a presidential campaign trail. So there 928 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of unknowns, but it does not seem 929 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: like we are at a point right now where this 930 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: would immediately interfere with his political plans. In fact, it's 931 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,440 Speaker 1: something that he has played up and potentially could fundraise 932 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: off of. Not that this is a good thing for 933 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: him overall, necessarily, but it is something that he is 934 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: speaking out about very publicly and seemingly trying to use 935 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: to motivate his core supporters. Still, okay, Jack, Hey, thank 936 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. 937 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:08,399 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Jack Fitzpatrick, Um, let's bring in June. You're still there, 938 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,879 Speaker 1: I know, and we're going to bring in Joshua at Katzenberg, 939 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,200 Speaker 1: professor at University of New Mexico Law School. I know 940 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: you know Joshua very well. June. You want to go ahead, 941 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,439 Speaker 1: and well, you know, I'll ask the question. The first 942 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: question that we're that we're asking basically every guest, is 943 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:30,319 Speaker 1: what's your reaction to this finally happening. Well, I think 944 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,799 Speaker 1: it's settles, you know, it settles a question in my 945 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: mind as to whether or not a former president can 946 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 1: ever be indicted. You know, we've seen this happen in 947 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 1: other democracies, in Italy, in France, in particular, in Japan. 948 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 1: You know, there was a Japanese prime minister indicted over 949 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 1: a Lockheed scandal in the nineteen seventies. And so I 950 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: don't think it's an unhealthy thing for a former president 951 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,680 Speaker 1: to be on the same position is everybody else in 952 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:08,720 Speaker 1: the country. But but yeah, I'm surprised that it happened 953 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: with the rapidity it did. Yeah, So so Joshua the 954 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: path of this, then he'll go through because this is 955 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,920 Speaker 1: a Manhattan District attorney, so he'll go through basically a 956 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,480 Speaker 1: local process. He in the past has liked to go 957 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,879 Speaker 1: in the process of basically appealing everything all the way 958 00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,319 Speaker 1: up to the Supreme Court. Where how does this go? 959 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,840 Speaker 1: Where does it end? Well, most of it will stay 960 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: in state court. It's very difficult to get a federal 961 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,560 Speaker 1: court to review state criminal court actions. There is a 962 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,800 Speaker 1: very narrow appeal process under the federal rules of civil 963 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 1: procedure to do so. But we don't know what arguments 964 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: will raise and just the this isn't fair, it's politically 965 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,640 Speaker 1: motivated that doesn't get you into federal court. What is 966 00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: likely to flow this process down is something known as 967 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: this goovery. The defense counsel in this case will undoubtedly 968 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: file dozens and dozens of motions that are not frivolous 969 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,440 Speaker 1: but will come up the works, and so we won't 970 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,920 Speaker 1: have an answer as to what the jury will see 971 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: for a while to come. Okay, And does this any 972 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: way interact with the timing of the other cases, I 973 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 1: know with us Hour, we've talked about We've talked about Georgia. 974 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:33,080 Speaker 1: You have also the classified documents. Do just behind the 975 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: scenes in the legal boardrooms. Do you wait and time 976 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: and do this or can all of these kind of 977 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,360 Speaker 1: merge together? Well? You know, the New York Manhattan District 978 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: Attorney in the Fulton County prosecutor down in Georgia are 979 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: running two completely independent investigations, and so my sense is 980 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: they probably didn't do much in the way of coordinating, 981 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,680 Speaker 1: nor should they. The federal investigation is a different matter 982 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,880 Speaker 1: to the We don't know the extent which the federal 983 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: government may have or did not assist in either of 984 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 1: those two investigations. Obviously, some of the data that was 985 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,960 Speaker 1: developed in the January sixth commission by the House of 986 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,800 Speaker 1: Representatives could be used in either of the two state investigations, 987 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,879 Speaker 1: but particularly so in the Georgia one. Yeah, okay, now yeah, 988 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:32,200 Speaker 1: and that they in Georgia they've actually said that they're 989 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 1: moving forward on that as well. So if I'm hearing 990 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,440 Speaker 1: you correctly, they could all they could all be working 991 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,320 Speaker 1: simultaneously at the same time, couldn't they. Yeah. Absolutely, And 992 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: in response to an earlier question that someone else was 993 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,359 Speaker 1: asked on the show about how does this effect as 994 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,400 Speaker 1: campaigning under ordinary New York and frankly the other forty 995 00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:00,279 Speaker 1: nine states criminal justice systems, there's a valid reason for 996 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,719 Speaker 1: delaying a trial in terms of the lawyers having to 997 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,840 Speaker 1: get ready for a trial. It's a very unique argument 998 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,160 Speaker 1: to say, hey, I'm running for political office, so I 999 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,360 Speaker 1: can't go to trial on this date. That probably doesn't 1000 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,800 Speaker 1: fall into the category of a reasonable request to delay trial, 1001 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,279 Speaker 1: but you never know, so, Jessure, we expected that this 1002 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: indictment was going to come out last week, and then 1003 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: we had a witness called basically by Trump's lawyers to 1004 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,080 Speaker 1: attack the credibility of Michael Cohen, and then we had 1005 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: a rebuttal sort of witness called by the prosecutors. Do 1006 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,759 Speaker 1: you think that the prosecutors in this case did too 1007 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 1: much in the grand jury called too many witnesses and why, Well, 1008 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to know. And the reason I 1009 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:55,640 Speaker 1: say that it's hard to know is is that they 1010 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: may have wanted to put on the strongest case possible 1011 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,719 Speaker 1: to withstand a appeals against the indictment as opposed to 1012 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,799 Speaker 1: appeals against the potential conviction, should one ever happen. And 1013 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,880 Speaker 1: so my senses that's why they probably frontloaded the grand 1014 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: jury with as many witnesses as they did. Now, having 1015 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,040 Speaker 1: said that, that doesn't tie them into calling those witnesses 1016 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: and the actual criminal trial. So I don't think it 1017 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 1: was a mistake to do that. But I do think 1018 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: that I don't have a sense that mister Bragg wanted 1019 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,520 Speaker 1: this news release today. Maybe he did, but this news 1020 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: broke from an anonymous source to the New York Times, 1021 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 1: and then three anonymous sources came through. And what that 1022 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,240 Speaker 1: tells me is that it's probably occurred before mister Bragg 1023 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,640 Speaker 1: wanted it too, and before all of the law enforcement 1024 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: was ready for it to occur. Yeah, and that would 1025 00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:01,560 Speaker 1: coincide with the grand jury itself on a three week vacation. 1026 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this came basically out of a blue and 1027 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,280 Speaker 1: a surprise, I would say to most anybody, Yeah, I'm 1028 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,840 Speaker 1: wondering if someone jumped the gun for personally, you know, 1029 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: for personal or political reasons, kind of like the grand 1030 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,760 Speaker 1: juror who leaked information publicly so we know her identity 1031 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,440 Speaker 1: down in Fulton County, Georgia. That's my sense that now 1032 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: there is another possibility of the grand jury being on 1033 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,560 Speaker 1: a vacation for three weeks. And that possibility is what 1034 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 1: if mister Bragg intended that grand jury to investigate the 1035 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:41,000 Speaker 1: potential for other charges, so it could have been Yeah, 1036 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,760 Speaker 1: that's why the vacation could have occurred. They got more 1037 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,560 Speaker 1: witnesses together, but they couldn't get those witnesses before the 1038 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: grand jury for another three weeks. And I'm fascinated just 1039 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,680 Speaker 1: in the Trump defense, and of course it's going to 1040 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:55,600 Speaker 1: be different in the courtroom than what we're going to 1041 00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:02,320 Speaker 1: hear mister Trump trying to tweet on truth social where 1042 00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: it's a witch hunt, where it's persecution, all of those 1043 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,200 Speaker 1: kinds of things. There's a paper trail that goes back 1044 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,720 Speaker 1: to him writing a check to Michael Kohn going through 1045 00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,920 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Also with Trump denying that anything 1046 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: ever had had happened at that was personal expense. Your take, 1047 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,280 Speaker 1: does any of that I have the possibility of holding 1048 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,960 Speaker 1: legal water. No. I mean, first of all, in order 1049 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: to get some of that evidence in the I didn't 1050 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 1: know or it didn't happen. You know, I'm hard pressed 1051 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: to think that in order for that to come before 1052 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,800 Speaker 1: a jury, he'd have to take the stand. And if 1053 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,440 Speaker 1: I were his defense counsel, he's that type of witness 1054 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,600 Speaker 1: I would not want taking the standard being subject across 1055 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 1: examination because of all the conflicting things he said, and 1056 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,280 Speaker 1: he's tweeted. You want if a defendant takes the stand, 1057 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,000 Speaker 1: you want them to be consistent above all else. And 1058 00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, mister Trump has not been consistent. I have 1059 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,280 Speaker 1: he said that the other parts of the tweets or 1060 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,640 Speaker 1: the other subject areas of his tweets about being a 1061 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,760 Speaker 1: witch hunt. That's not evidence that's going to come before 1062 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: a jury. Um, you know, this is a politically charged pace. 1063 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,240 Speaker 1: That allegation or they're out to get me. That allegation, 1064 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: that's not evidence. That could be an argument raised before 1065 01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: I judge to dismiss the charges. But it's really unlikely 1066 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: that it would ever go you know, that kind of 1067 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: an argument would ever be placed before a jury. Yeah, okay, Well, 1068 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,120 Speaker 1: and and just very very quickly here will we see 1069 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump on the stand? I doubt it. Yeah, like 1070 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,680 Speaker 1: I look like I said, You know, I wouldn't if 1071 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,320 Speaker 1: I were a defense counsel, I'd be very wary about 1072 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 1: it's his choice. A defense counsel can't stop him. But 1073 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: he said a lot of different things about a lot 1074 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,360 Speaker 1: of different things, and that would be great fought or 1075 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,840 Speaker 1: to cross him. If for the prosecutor, it would be 1076 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,720 Speaker 1: just just from the outside, it would be fun. Joshua, 1077 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,440 Speaker 1: thank you very much, really appreciate your time. Joshua Kassenberg, Professor, 1078 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,240 Speaker 1: University of New Mexico Law School. June is here going 1079 01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: to bring Doug Krisner back into the conversation, you guys, thoughts, June. 1080 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,200 Speaker 1: One of the things I'm most curious about is whether 1081 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: or not there's going to be any reaction on the 1082 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,640 Speaker 1: part of the public here in New York. You were 1083 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,600 Speaker 1: talking earlier about both the Secret Service in the NYPD 1084 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,680 Speaker 1: taking preemptive measures around the courthouse in Lower Manhattan, right yeah, 1085 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,760 Speaker 1: and you know, when this first came out or when 1086 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump said that he was going to be arrested, 1087 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,880 Speaker 1: which was less Saturday, and so Saturday before last hot 1088 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,000 Speaker 1: time flies. So we expected a lot of demonstrations, A 1089 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 1: lot of people in the New York Police Department ramped 1090 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,920 Speaker 1: up for that, and we found very little people. In fact, 1091 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,800 Speaker 1: the press outnumbered the protesters outside the courthouse and outside 1092 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Trump Tower, where you usually find any kind of protesters 1093 01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,760 Speaker 1: for or against Trump there. So, you know, I think 1094 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,920 Speaker 1: that a lot of people bull who might be you know, 1095 01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:05,680 Speaker 1: avid Trump supporters might be scared off off a little 1096 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:11,160 Speaker 1: by the January sixth investigation and prosecutions where you know, 1097 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,320 Speaker 1: they came, some of them came to something that they 1098 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,440 Speaker 1: didn't know what would happen, and boom, they ended up 1099 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,160 Speaker 1: being inside the you know, the capital and getting prosecuted. 1100 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,320 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people who are you know, 1101 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:27,520 Speaker 1: who might be the really avid supporters might stay back. 1102 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: And you know the problem is too that since Trump 1103 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,960 Speaker 1: said this, it's been people have been worked up, worked up, 1104 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,720 Speaker 1: worked up. Now that it's happened, it's almost anticlimactic in 1105 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 1: a way. And it's the same with his saying it's 1106 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,479 Speaker 1: a witch hunt. It's a witch hunt. It's a witch hunt. 1107 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,680 Speaker 1: How many times can you say that? And that's something 1108 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,600 Speaker 1: that the jury. He's not going to be able to 1109 01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,840 Speaker 1: preach that to the jury in any of these cases. 1110 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,000 Speaker 1: It's going to be based on what happens, you know, 1111 01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 1: in the courtroom and the testimony. So I think that 1112 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm not expected acting anything to happen, but you never know, 1113 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,160 Speaker 1: You never do know, Eddie. And I heard you earlier 1114 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,080 Speaker 1: saying that CNN had been reporting that mister Trump will 1115 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,960 Speaker 1: likely be arraigned early next week. Is that right? Yeah, Yeah, 1116 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:15,080 Speaker 1: that is the preliminary report, and they were early on 1117 01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,600 Speaker 1: in the reporting of this. Just very briefly from me, Doug, 1118 01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,080 Speaker 1: I think that it's gonna be really interesting to see 1119 01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,160 Speaker 1: how the base of the Republican Party, not the not 1120 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,440 Speaker 1: the Trump not the MAGA base, but the base plays 1121 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,720 Speaker 1: this to see as we go forward toward the election. 1122 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,680 Speaker 1: All right, that we'll wrap up a special hour of 1123 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,520 Speaker 1: coverage here on Bloomberg Radio. As we tracked the news 1124 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,400 Speaker 1: on Donald Trump being indicted in New York by the 1125 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and CNN reporting earlier that 1126 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,040 Speaker 1: mister Trump will likely be arraigned earlier next week. This 1127 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:47,680 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg