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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome in Friday edition Clay Travis buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show. We have got a bevy of stories to

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Speaker 1: dive into throughout the course of this program with you

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Speaker 1: the debt ceiling fighting, maybe the misconstruing of that as

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Speaker 1: a fight. The Supreme Court essentially going to allow whoever

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Speaker 1: leaked to the Dabbs opinion and put a legitimate target

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Speaker 1: on all of the conservative Supreme Court justices. They are saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we just don't know who did it. What do we

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Speaker 1: think about that? Shannon Breen will join us in the

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Speaker 1: next hour, and it's actually where I want to start

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Speaker 1: right now. Buck. I read this report that was issued

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Speaker 1: on the full investigation surrounding the leak of the Dabbs report. Buck,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that I thought was interesting

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Speaker 1: was they required everyone to sign an affidavit under penalty

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Speaker 1: of perjury that they had nothing to do with the

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Speaker 1: leaking of the Dabbs affidavit and everyone signed that. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like, you know, you're trying to catch somebody by

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Speaker 1: their refusal to sign that affidavit as a sign that

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Speaker 1: they may have done something that would be improper. But

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Speaker 1: one aspect of the report that I thought deserved some

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Speaker 1: discussion because it leads me to what I think likely

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Speaker 1: happened here. First of all, it doesn't sound like they

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Speaker 1: even questioned the Supreme Court justices, so they immediately considered

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Speaker 1: all of them to be above reproach. But they did,

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Speaker 1: in the questioning determine that several different employees of the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court discussed the Dabs ruling and their understanding of

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Speaker 1: that draft ruling with their spouses or their significant others.

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Speaker 1: Here's what I think happened, and I'm curious how you

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Speaker 1: would analyze this. First, it's I think it's an awful

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Speaker 1: precedent that we are not catching whoever leaked this opinion,

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Speaker 1: because it sets in motion the possibility for their contentious

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Speaker 1: cases in the future, the idea that you can do

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Speaker 1: this and get away with it. And I think it

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Speaker 1: may well happen again in another contentious case. And so

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Speaker 1: given that this directly led to an assassination attempt on

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Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice in Brett Kavanaugh, and has led

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Speaker 1: to consistent protests outside of Supreme Court justice's homes, which

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Speaker 1: the federal government and the state governments in both Maryland

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Speaker 1: and Virginia, and also the District of Columbia. Again, the

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Speaker 1: federal government don't seem at all interested in curtailing and

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Speaker 1: stopping Buck. I think someone was smart here. They got

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Speaker 1: a printed copy of this proposed ruling. They brought it home,

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Speaker 1: They discussed it with their spouse, They put it down

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Speaker 1: on a table and said, I can't do anything with this.

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Speaker 1: I am duty bound under my Supreme Court responsibilities and

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Speaker 1: code of ethics. But you, meaning the spouse, meaning the

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Speaker 1: significant other, are not similarly constrained. I think, based on

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Speaker 1: reading this report, that's likely the way this got out.

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Speaker 1: One of those people, maybe it was a clerk, maybe

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Speaker 1: it was an employee, brought home this ruling, this proposed

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Speaker 1: draft opinion, and put it on the table, discussed it

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Speaker 1: with a significant other, and the significant other took it

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Speaker 1: straight to Politico. Because I'm thinking about it also from

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Speaker 1: Politico's perspective, if you got this like Buck, if you

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Speaker 1: and I suddenly got a story of this significance dropped

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Speaker 1: on our front doorstep, yeah, we would significantly question whether

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Speaker 1: we were getting set up with something that was an

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Speaker 1: elaborate hoax, an elaborate fake. Right If your spouse works

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Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court, and they say, this is the

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Speaker 1: draft of the biggest Supreme Court decision in certainly a decade,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps many people would argue much longer than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna think that that's real. By the way, I

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Speaker 1: think you're It's interesting because I have some experience with this.

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Speaker 1: I was in the CIA during a number of leak

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Speaker 1: probes because of the War on Terror, and you know,

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Speaker 1: people will remember now some of the you know, the

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Speaker 1: various revelations things like waterboarding and things that we now

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Speaker 1: all talk about. There was a time, you know, people

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Speaker 1: discuss a black site somewhere, all these things, all these

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Speaker 1: discussions that became very very public. Initially, there was a

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Speaker 1: huge surge within the intelligence community of out of outrage

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Speaker 1: internally at how can anybody betray our trust by telling

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Speaker 1: you know, Washington Post, you named any of these entities

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Speaker 1: about this. And it's funny you brought up the signing

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Speaker 1: of the affidavit under penalty of perjury. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: very rarely are those things prosecuted, but it does have

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Speaker 1: some legal teeth. It's different in an intelligence community context

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Speaker 1: because immediately with the serious leak you're talking about federal

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Speaker 1: statutes under the Espionage Act where people ken get sent

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Speaker 1: to prison for decades and that half for decades, not

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Speaker 1: just for you know, a year or two. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously depends on the severity of the league and what

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Speaker 1: people uh, you know, what was exposed and the intent

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Speaker 1: behind it. But the polygraph is always one of the

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Speaker 1: things that that they want to go for right away

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Speaker 1: for obvious reasons. Anyone's read a spy novel and knows

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Speaker 1: when they do counterintelligence work, they'll start saying, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna poly everybody. And what they're really just the

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Speaker 1: easiest thing is when someone says, I'm not taking I'm

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Speaker 1: not taking a polygraph. All that like trying to turn

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Speaker 1: around when you see a DUI checkpoint, right Like if

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Speaker 1: you if you see one of the in ahead of

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Speaker 1: you and you're like, oh, I'm gonna make a quick

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Speaker 1: U turn, cops are immediately like, yeah, let's go stop,

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Speaker 1: let let's go check on that pretty good sign that

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Speaker 1: you're telling on yourself in some way. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: my uncle who was a was a law enforcement officer

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Speaker 1: LAPD and actually Savannah PD as well. Um. He told

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Speaker 1: the story once that he was at a. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a time when Savannah had a lot of shootings.

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Speaker 1: It was a pretty pretty island city. It's now as

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm like a huge Savannah Superfanily was like beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'd go any chance I can, and

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Speaker 1: I do love it. But he was there in the

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Speaker 1: nineties when things are rough, and I remember he said

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Speaker 1: he was at a he was out of shooting, and

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Speaker 1: he just did the usual because people had gathered it

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Speaker 1: was broad daylight. People had gathered around. There's a body

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Speaker 1: they're you know, coordinate it off with the caution tape.

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Speaker 1: He says, did anybody see anything? And he says there's

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Speaker 1: one guy who just yells, look, I didn't. He says,

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Speaker 1: I didn't kill nobody. Guy puts his hands up, So

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Speaker 1: I didn't kill nobody. Turns out Clay that guy when

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Speaker 1: they continued to question him because they were just you know,

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Speaker 1: the question wasn't did you get it, It was to

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Speaker 1: the whole crowd, did anyone see anything? Yeah, I didn't

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Speaker 1: kill anybody. Turns out I didn't kill anybody. Actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: he needed a lawyer up. So you know, when you

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Speaker 1: see these investigations, there's a lot of ways they can

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Speaker 1: they can go forward in this regard or you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the tactics and the procedures they can use.

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Speaker 1: I just think that they're they're My two takeaways from

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Speaker 1: this are one, I don't think they really wanted to

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Speaker 1: find the person. Now I'm not saying they didn't go

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Speaker 1: through the motions and they would have accepted it if

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Speaker 1: they had found out, but I think they don't. They

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Speaker 1: didn't really want to find the person because it would

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Speaker 1: only add to my number two takeaway here, which is

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Speaker 1: certainly one end of the ideological spectrum just reviews the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court now as a weapon of politics and power

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Speaker 1: and has no respect for it whatsoever, and was willing

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Speaker 1: in this moment, was willing to try to change a

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision. You know, we talked about changing the

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Speaker 1: refusal to accept election results and a threat to our democracy.

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Speaker 1: This was effectively a sabotage of the Supreme Court, which

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Speaker 1: let's all remember in two thousand, Supreme Court has decided

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Speaker 1: how an election will go. So you could even make

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Speaker 1: an argument that the sabotage of the Supreme Court goes

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Speaker 1: to the ultimate level of our government. This was massive

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Speaker 1: and I think the ramifications of this will last a

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Speaker 1: long time, and it's very hard for anybody to make

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Speaker 1: the case now that the Supreme Court hasn't just become

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Speaker 1: entirely now politicized in a way that is irretrievable. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's where we are, and I think the

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Speaker 1: justices all kind of know that. Do you agree with

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Speaker 1: me on the because I think if you assess the

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Speaker 1: overall landscape and kind of contemplate what you know, the

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Speaker 1: only way Politico runs with this is if they know

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Speaker 1: that it is a very reliable way that it came

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Speaker 1: into their possession right, So it has to be whoever

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Speaker 1: was there, Tipper has to be like, I brought this

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Speaker 1: directly from my wife's kitchen table. She is the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court clerk for insert justice here, or my husband is

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Speaker 1: the long time you know, secretary of the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just tossing it and he brought this home

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Speaker 1: and you can look him up. But it can't be

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Speaker 1: from us. You know, you're gonna give us anonymity associated

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Speaker 1: with how you got sourcing on this. But there's so

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Speaker 1: many elaborate fakes. Politico was one hundred percent right right.

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Speaker 1: This was an accurate draft opinion. Everything that they reported

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Speaker 1: around it was true, and I don't blame Politico for

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Speaker 1: running with the story. From a journalism perspective, this is

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Speaker 1: a big deal, right, but also claim, I mean it didn't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really when they when they talk about in

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Speaker 1: this draft that you mentioned, or the document, the twenty

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Speaker 1: pages that the Supreme Court put out about the investigation,

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Speaker 1: they're really I mean conspiracy to commit an offense against

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Speaker 1: the United States or to fraud the United States. Very vague,

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Speaker 1: very broad. That would be a tough one power to

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Speaker 1: punish contempt of the court. Okay, maybe maybe you could

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Speaker 1: get it. Here's the question I have. Yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 1: unlike and you're raising an interesting point because when you're

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Speaker 1: working at the CIA like you did, everybody knows if

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Speaker 1: you lead documents you're in real serious trouble because there

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Speaker 1: is a criminal specifically designed to address that. Why wouldn't

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Speaker 1: Congress now pass a law that says, if you leak

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Speaker 1: a Supreme Court opinion, you are facing severe criminal That's

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Speaker 1: what I mean. I mean you effectively, I think, have

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Speaker 1: to treat Supreme Court drafts. As you know, it's illegal

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Speaker 1: to leak someone's tax returns. Notice, how the Trump tax

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Speaker 1: return thing where they for years Clay they were obsessed with.

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Speaker 1: This appeared the ultimate nothing burger was the Trump tax returns.

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Speaker 1: But because there's nothing specific here, there was a degree

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Speaker 1: of good faith that the Supreme Court system relied on

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Speaker 1: here from the people. It's small, not a lot of

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Speaker 1: people have access to it, and someone violated that good faith.

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Speaker 1: But all the different statutes that they lay out here

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Speaker 1: corruptly endeavoring to influence, intimidat, or impede an officer of

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Speaker 1: the court, these are broad. They'd be kind of tough

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Speaker 1: to bring. They don't have the teeth that I think

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Speaker 1: that you would need to get a full fledged, full

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Speaker 1: scale little investigation and prosecution going of someone like this.

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Speaker 1: And you have to wonder, I mean, did they put

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Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice or really several Supreme Court justices

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Speaker 1: in jeopardy with this action in the CIA? What is

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Speaker 1: what is the thing that more than anything else people

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Speaker 1: think of as this is why we have to pre

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Speaker 1: classified spies like you know, background and then put them

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Speaker 1: on the chopping ball. You know, and anybody who's ever

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Speaker 1: seen any spy movie knows if you know, the bad

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Speaker 1: guys find out the identity of somebody who's spying for

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Speaker 1: the US government. That could cost that person their life,

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Speaker 1: It could cost that person's family their lives. So the severity,

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Speaker 1: the seriousness is very clear. Hence the reason for the

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Speaker 1: statutes that protect that information. Um those by the way,

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Speaker 1: they've had to clarify, even if those statutes have become

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Speaker 1: even more more solidified and legally aggressive over time. But

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Speaker 1: when you look at this, there's really I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be much consequence for the person who did it,

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Speaker 1: other than getting fired and then going on the book,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting the book deal and the the speaking tour.

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Speaker 1: This person, this is another part of this, is a

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Speaker 1: hero to the left, a hero to the left. They

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Speaker 1: there is no contempt for this individual from anybody who

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Speaker 1: was upset about the dabb's decision. They all think, hey,

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Speaker 1: nice nice try, nice nice shot here, Sorry it didn't

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Speaker 1: work out. That's why I think that the House Republican

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Speaker 1: should introduce a bill making this a definite crime with

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Speaker 1: significant consequences going forward in the event that someone does it.

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Speaker 1: Because to your point, even the perjury potentially in signing

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Speaker 1: the affidavit in the middle of the investigation, while it

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Speaker 1: might have legal consequences. You might lose your ability to

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Speaker 1: practice law. Is it that big of a deal when

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Speaker 1: you get a multimillion dollar book deal to write the

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Speaker 1: story of how you fought to try to keep Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade the story? I mean, now make a movie about you.

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Speaker 1: We'll make a television series about you. Yeah, ask getting Live?

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Speaker 1: Would you rather be the hero in the next you know,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Spelling drama that's picked up by Netflix. But how

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Speaker 1: you try to save a woman's right to her own

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Speaker 1: body or whatever? I think Aaron Spelling's dead? But oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry the day I mean Beverly Hills nine Dynasty,

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Speaker 1: I think if I remember. But but yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: might have been confusing folks like, fuck, why do you

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Speaker 1: think that would be the right? Yeah, to a documentary,

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Speaker 1: who've done it on the on the leak of the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court document But yeah, I would just wonder we'll

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Speaker 1: ask Shannon Bream about this. I would just wonder whether

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Speaker 1: there's any motivation at all to finally make this a

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Speaker 1: criminal offense, because I think it should be a criminal defense.

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Speaker 1: Online identity theft silent crime. When it happens, it often

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Speaker 1: From the front lines of truth, Clay Travis and buck Sexton,

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Speaker 1: you ask for miracles, THEO I give you the FEI

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Speaker 1: great Diehard reference. My favorite, maybe my favorite line in

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Speaker 1: that movie. Looks like we're going to eat some more

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Speaker 1: FBI agents. I mean, that is an incredibly well delivered line.

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Speaker 1: So we got FBI director, which is why we're thinking

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Speaker 1: of it. FBI director Christopher Ray talking at Davos, which

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Speaker 1: is just so interesting me the FBI director would even

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Speaker 1: be at Davos. What is he doing? But he's there,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna want to hear this. He was praising

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Speaker 1: the collaboration in the FBI between public and private sector

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Speaker 1: play one. The sophistication of the private sector is improving,

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Speaker 1: and in particularly important, the level of collaboration between the

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Speaker 1: private sector and the government, especially the FBI, has I

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Speaker 1: think made significant strides. Pretty much every technology we could

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Speaker 1: talk about today we see both great opportunity but great

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Speaker 1: great dangers. So I think it's it's interesting Clay that,

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Speaker 1: given we've seen FBI Twitter suppression of free speech collaboration,

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Speaker 1: and understand that the FBI has probably also done the

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Speaker 1: same thing with Facebook and with Google and YouTube and

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Speaker 1: everything else, we need to start drawing much more bright

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Speaker 1: red lines between the effectively our own secret police and

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Speaker 1: what's going on here with big tech and the private

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Speaker 1: sector in general. I agree percent with that, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's one of the big things that the House

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Speaker 1: Republicans can and should do with their new majority. Think

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Speaker 1: about the tone deafness of this buck. If you are

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Speaker 1: already under fire for all of the unconstitutional, potentially entanglements

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Speaker 1: and directions and censorship that you have been leading the

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Speaker 1: charge on as it pertains to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all

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Speaker 1: the big tech companies YouTube, then you get on a

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Speaker 1: jet and fly to Davos and go to the World

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Speaker 1: Economic Forum. It's a level of tone deafness that is

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Speaker 1: also I think symptomatic of arrogance. It's like when Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden traveled cross country to Washington, DC to get on

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Speaker 1: Air Force one to fly to South Carolina for the

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Speaker 1: Biden family vacation. It's like putting your eye in the

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Speaker 1: face of everyone and being like, I'm not at all

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Speaker 1: concerned about what this looks like because my power is

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Speaker 1: so absolute. Thumb in the eye of I am the

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Speaker 1: face of what was thumb thumbing? They yeah, yeah, yeah, Um.

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Speaker 1: It just feels like such a flagrant, like double middle

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Speaker 1: finger to any critics to even go to Davos and

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Speaker 1: then to brag about how well you work with the

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Speaker 1: private sector. I mean, it's like a evil villain in

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Speaker 1: a Marvel film would be undertaking that role, and it

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Speaker 1: just ties in. I think with how much many of

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Speaker 1: these people truly believe they are above the law, that

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Speaker 1: they are protected and it doesn't matter what they might

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Speaker 1: three month emergency food kit when you go to prepare

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Speaker 1: with Clay en Buck dot com. Welcome back in Clay

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Speaker 1: Travis Buck Sexton show. This debt ceiling battle is going

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Speaker 1: to count four months of account for months, I would say,

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Speaker 1: of news media stories before ultimately it gets resolved spoiler

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Speaker 1: alert without the United States defaulting and collapsing as a business.

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Speaker 1: Just just gonna let you know there is going to

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Speaker 1: be a resolution at some point. Now, what's become increasingly

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Speaker 1: clear is there are actually lots of Democrats, particularly in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, that seem willing to negotiate on this debt

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Speaker 1: ceiling related issue. And if that is true, then there

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Speaker 1: is a pretty good amount of leverage that Republicans have

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Speaker 1: here if Republicans remain steadfast. But buck the story here

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Speaker 1: on the debt ceiling is to me really missing the

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Speaker 1: bigger story, which is You've talked about this yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: I was reading the Wall Street Journal this morning. They

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Speaker 1: have a graphic I'm going to tweet it out for

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Speaker 1: people to look at. We had a five trillion dollar

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Speaker 1: national debt at the beginning of two thousand, right, which

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Speaker 1: means for our nation's entire history, from seventeen eighty three

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Speaker 1: when we became an independent country until twenty twenty, we

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Speaker 1: had built up a five trillion dollar national debt. Since

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Speaker 1: two thousand, we have taken a five trillion national debt

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Speaker 1: and it is now over thirty one trillion. So in

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Speaker 1: the space of twenty years, roughly, we have added over

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Speaker 1: twenty five trillion dollars two hour national debt. And that's

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Speaker 1: an average, rough math of over a trillion dollars a

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Speaker 1: year that we are adding to the national debt. And

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Speaker 1: I think we're on pace so far this year to

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Speaker 1: add around a trillion and a half dollars to the

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Speaker 1: national debt. And it got me thinking several things. One

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Speaker 1: you may know the answer of this, what comes after trillion?

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Speaker 1: You know, you go million, billion, trillion without looking it up. No,

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Speaker 1: I have to look it up. I don't know. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess. Is it gazillion? Is that a real

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Speaker 1: thing that's made up? One? It's a quadrillion, So it's

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Speaker 1: trillion is like try so quadrillion like four? So you

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Speaker 1: have to look it up. I've been almost no one

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Speaker 1: out there knows because we keep And the reason why

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Speaker 1: I bring this up is I don't think it's crazy

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Speaker 1: to believe that in the lifetime of many of you

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Speaker 1: out there listening, and maybe in the next generation when

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Speaker 1: you start to factor in the rate of interest payments

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Speaker 1: and how much that's going to balloon and expand our

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Speaker 1: national debt, we're rapidly advancing towards a hundred trillion dollar

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Speaker 1: national debt. Buck Well, I think it's I think it's

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Speaker 1: worth asking if there's no downside to the dead, why

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Speaker 1: care at all? Because what's interesting is when you bring

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Speaker 1: this up, people say, oh, Republicans complained about the dead.

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Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. You know, you'll hear this,

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Speaker 1: and whether it's Paul Krugman at the New York Times

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Speaker 1: or any other leftist economists out there who will offer

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Speaker 1: up their credentials as a means of covering up for

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Speaker 1: the very basic and straightforward reality of this is about math.

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Speaker 1: It's about numbers, and it's a really big number that

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Speaker 1: does have implications for everybody and for the economy. The

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Speaker 1: same reason why you can say to people, well, if

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Speaker 1: you don't think that, you know, money printing is bad,

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Speaker 1: why not just give every American. I know, they just

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Speaker 1: said that they should give every African American five million

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Speaker 1: dollars in reparations. You know in California. You know that

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Speaker 1: would be on a smaller scale, but you could give

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Speaker 1: every American just a million dollars or five million dollars.

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Speaker 1: What's the downside? Well, we know that you would effectively

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Speaker 1: destroy the entire value of the currency itself. So we

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Speaker 1: know that can happen. And I wonder at what point

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Speaker 1: we're at that stage with the debt where you talk

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Speaker 1: about what could go wrong here? What are the bad

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Speaker 1: things from I do this with immigration with people, illegal

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Speaker 1: immigration with people all the time, because also it's not

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Speaker 1: a big deal or like you know these are you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a nation of immigrants, and we need the dreamers.

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Speaker 1: And I say, okay, is there any downside? Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the downside first. Is there any downside? And once

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Speaker 1: they but there's a downside, you say, well, obviously the

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Speaker 1: downside is exacerbated by an increase in the numbers. Right,

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Speaker 1: So if you can establish that something bad happens in

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Speaker 1: some level, the more of that you have, the more

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Speaker 1: of the bad side you're going to have. If you

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Speaker 1: can establish with the debt that you're going to have

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Speaker 1: increasing payments on the money you've already paid, and that

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Speaker 1: that brings the number up even more, Yes, and that

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Speaker 1: this is going to crowd out private investment, private spending

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Speaker 1: in the economy. This is going to be a burden,

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Speaker 1: a debt burden that future generations are going to have

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Speaker 1: to service for things that they get no benefit from,

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Speaker 1: and the political instability that comes from that. And we

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Speaker 1: can agree on all of those things. Forty trillion trillion

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Speaker 1: sounds like a lot of money to me. Clay, Yes,

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned Paul Krugman. I'm glad you did. His

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Speaker 1: New York Times editorial this morning refers to Republicans who

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Speaker 1: are opposed to raising the debt ceiling as economic terrorists.

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Speaker 1: Oh my headline, Yes, literally in the print newspaper headline.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they've changed it digitally online. I

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Speaker 1: meant to take a picture of it and tweeted out,

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Speaker 1: but yes, my newspaper this morning. I'm sitting there reading,

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Speaker 1: as I do every morning, the New York Times and

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00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: then the Wall Street Journal or vice versa, you know,

432
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: old school, old man print school copy, and I just

433
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: to know what everybody's saying. And Paul Krugman says that

434
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: you can't negotiate, that these are economic terrorists in the

435
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: Republican Party who are attempting to question the amount of

436
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: money that's being spent. And so I think what we're

437
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: gonna get, Buck, I think we are moving towards an era.

438
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: This is my theory. Clinton and Newt Gingrich hammered out

439
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: a budget that actually ended Remember that we had a surplus,

440
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: like we were actually bringing in more money than we

441
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: were spending, and our national debt actually started to go down.

442
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: And I think that was like ninety seven, ninety eight,

443
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: ninety nine. More of my argument, Buck, that the late

444
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: nineties were the greatest moments in American history. And then

445
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: in the two thousands, nine eleven happens, budgets get blown up,

446
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: and since then, we've basically allowed ourselves to believe one

447
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: crisis after another justifies as much spending as as as

448
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: we feel like we want to toss out there, right,

449
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: And Joe Biden was willing to spend five trillion more

450
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: dollars even though it took us to double digit inflation.

451
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: And so I wonder if there's going to be a

452
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: sort of acknowledgement of, hey, this is a big issue

453
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: and we have to resolve it, and the debt ceiling

454
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: is really just a prelude to a more substantive conversation

455
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: about a much bigger issue. Interesting in this exchange in

456
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: the New York Times, I'm seeing they had an opinion

457
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: section piece where they had I think it was a podcast.

458
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: They did a transcript of it and a naked case

459
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: that for this is from this transcript for Republicans. The

460
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: showdown in twenty eleven, they're from your previous debt ceiling

461
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: fights was the signal achievement of the Tea Party staring

462
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: down President Barack Obama and forcing the cuts associated with

463
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: the Budget Control Act. It validated one of the animating

464
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: forces of the right over the past decade that the

465
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: party's failures are a result of weak, feckless leadership and

466
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: if they fight, they win. For Democrats, this is a

467
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: guy Donovan saying this. For Democrats, including Joe Biden, who

468
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: as Vice President had a front row seat to that deal,

469
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: it was evidence of why you should never negotiate under

470
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: these circumstances because it enables and encourages more hostage taking. So,

471
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: you know what I think is interesting about about how

472
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: they frame this is that Clay Okay Republicans the Budget

473
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: Control Act. For people who actually remember the Budget Control Act,

474
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: and I'm going to say this is part of why

475
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: I think the Tea Party started to lose a little

476
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: bit of steam. The Budget Control Act was a reduction

477
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: in the amount of increase in federal spending. Yeah, it

478
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: wasn't actually a net decrease in all federal spending. The

479
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: Budget Control Act was we were going to increase it

480
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: by you know whatever. It was a few percentage points,

481
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: which in the context of a multi trillion dollar federal

482
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: budget is a massive amount of money. We're gonna drop

483
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: that down a little bit. So instead of increasing the budget,

484
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, three percent, we're going to increase increase at

485
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: two point five percent or two percent. I forget what

486
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: the numbers were, but that's what that huge fight was

487
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: over a decrease in the increase. Yes, well, and that's

488
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: well said. And remember for you know, just back of

489
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: the envelope math here, and I'm far from an economist,

490
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: but the amount that we have to spend on social

491
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: security and medicare continues to grow, and it's growing now

492
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: much faster because the cost of living increases have to

493
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: take into account the massive rate of inflation. So we're

494
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: getting a big hit there to our budget. Simultaneously, we

495
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: are hitting monster numbers as it pertains to the five

496
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: percent soon to be five percent, I believe overall interest rate,

497
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: you know. And Buck, this is one of the things

498
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: that I think Trump floated that was brilliant, that got

499
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: almost no attention. Trump said, Hey, why wouldn't we go

500
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: ahead and refi our And again I don't know all

501
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: of the economic you know, involvement here, but he said,

502
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: why wouldn't we lock in the rate of our national debt,

503
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: the money that we have borrowed at like zero or

504
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: one percent interest when that was the rate, instead of

505
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: allowing it to float almost like you know, if you're

506
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: a if you're taking out a mortgage and you've got

507
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: a three percent mortgage. One reason the housing market has

508
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: frozen is a lot of people have a three percent

509
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: mortgage and they're like, why in the world would I

510
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: move and take a seven percent mortgage. It's going to

511
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: cost me way more money, even if I like a

512
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: new house better. Why wouldn't we have locked in if

513
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: it's possible? And Trump floated the idea, and I thought

514
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: it was brilliant our national interest rate, like you would

515
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: lock in a mortgage when the rates were really low.

516
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: I know this will sound sweeping because it is, and

517
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: it's not true in all cases, but I think it

518
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: is fair to say that our political leadership class, whether

519
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: it's in the White House or in Congress, is generally

520
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: mathematically and financially illiterate. Well, yes, there's that too, not

521
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: all of them, obviously, but a lot of them. And actually,

522
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that Trump brought to the table

523
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: was an understanding of certainly business on the financial side

524
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: of things. And this is to this day, I said,

525
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: around and go, no one ever gives Trump credit for

526
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: the fact that the Biden trade policy visa each China

527
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: is the Trump trade policy. Remember they were saying he's

528
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: gonna start a trade war, he's gonna destroy the economy.

529
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: People like Krugman, by the way, saying that Trump was

530
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 1: right on that stuff. Yeah, and it is funny. You're right,

531
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: Biden hasn't even touched it. And you know what the

532
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: reality is, if Biden had come in and just continue

533
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: to run all Trump policies in every facet, the country

534
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: would be infinitely better off in every single arena. Really

535
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: think about it. In the meantime, I gotta tell you

536
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: my pillow they will hook you up. They got pillows,

537
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Speaker 1: mattress covers, sheets, they can help with everything. They've got

538
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Speaker 1: the Giza dream sheets though, which are absolutely phenomenal. They

539
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540
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Speaker 1: only get softer over time, while still maintaining their great

541
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Speaker 1: look and structure. I slept on him last night, I

542
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: sleep on him every night. So to my boys, you'll

543
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Speaker 1: love him skis at Cotton. It is phenomenal. And remember,

544
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Speaker 1: my pillow products come with a ten year warranty and

545
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Speaker 1: a sixty day money back guarantee. It's all this Geeza

546
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Speaker 1: dreamsheets less than thirty dollars a set two full months

547
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Speaker 1: to determine. If these aren't the most comfortable sheets you

548
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Speaker 1: can sleep on, you can go to my pillow dot

549
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Speaker 1: com click on the Radio Listeners specials to check out

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Speaker 1: this flash sale and the Geeza dreamsheets. Use our names

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Speaker 1: as the promo code Clay and Buck. You can also

552
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Speaker 1: call eight hundred seven nine two thirty two sixty nine.

553
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554
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Speaker 1: thirty two sixty nine. You get to know the guys

555
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: outside the issues. Sunday hang with Clay and Buck a podcasts,

556
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: fight it on the iHeart app or wherever you get

557
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Welcome back to Clay an Buck. It is Friday.

558
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: You want to take your calls eight hundred two eight

559
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: two two eight eight two. Light up those lines, my friends,

560
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: and now we talk a little bit of twenty twenty

561
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: four stuff here. Sometimes it's gonna be in the background

562
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 1: because it's it's a big deal, as we all know.

563
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: And there are some names. Well, we talked about Biden,

564
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: is you going to run? Is it gonna be Kamala,

565
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be possibly Gavin Newsom or even somebody

566
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: else on the right. There are two names to get

567
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: a lot of attention, Donald Trump, former president and the

568
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: only named candidate so far or official candidate so far.

569
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: On the Republican side, people talk about the governor of Florida,

570
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: RHN de Santis a lot Nicky Haley, though Nicky Haley

571
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: is also someone who could very well. And I think

572
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: we'll make a run certainly. And here she is, play

573
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: clip ten. Are you going to run for president? Well,

574
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make an announcement here, but when

575
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: you're looking at a run for president, you look at

576
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: two things. You first look at does the current situation

577
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: push for new leadership? The second question is am I

578
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: that person that could be that new leader? Yes? We

579
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: need to go in a new direction. And can I

580
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: be that leader? Yes? I think I can be that leader.

581
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: But we are still working through things and we'll figure

582
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: it out. I've never last to race. I said that,

583
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: then I still say that now. I'm not going to

584
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: lose now. But stay tuned. It sounds like you're close.

585
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: It sounds are we getting to the exploratory committee stage here?

586
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: I think stay tuned, Clay, And when you have a

587
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: framework for your thinking that you can rattle off like

588
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: that about a decision. You've probably already made the decision. Yeah,

589
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: she's gonna run, I think buck And you can also

590
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: see some of the Trump people are attacking her for

591
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: running because I think this would be one of the

592
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: people that they consider to be an ally that would

593
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: be stepping into the arena. I don't think the Trump

594
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: people consider DeSantis to be an ally. I don't think

595
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: they consider at this point, certainly Mike Pence to be

596
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: an ally. But I've seen a lot of sniping about

597
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: Nicky Haley, which also means to me, she's gonna run.

598
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: I'll just say this in when you assess this race.

599
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: To me, I understand why the Trump people could be

600
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: upset that she's running. If you're a Trump you want

601
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: as big of a field as possible. If I'm Trump,

602
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: I want twenty people running for this nomination because I

603
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: think Trump's third, let's say it's a third of the

604
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: Republican base that is just die hard, like they're not

605
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: even going to consider anybody else. I don't think that

606
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: that third moves and it makes it hard for him

607
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: to beat. If that's true, do you think Nicky Haley,

608
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: let's say there are more than let's say there are

609
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: four or more candidates? Four more candidates, just to put

610
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: it out there. Who knows what the number would meant? Well,

611
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Were there nineteen Republicans who ran twenty nineteen

612
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: and ran against Trump? Yeah, yeah, let's say there's more

613
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: than four. So there's a good there's a group. Do

614
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: you think Nicky Haley can get to double digit support

615
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: in the GOP? Well, I think her play is that

616
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: South Carolina is one of the early states if I

617
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: were if I because the Democrats are talking about starting

618
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: now in South Carolina. There's a battle over what that

619
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: would do to New Hampshire in Iowa. But I think

620
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: Nicky Haley's play is is I'm gonna dominate in South Carolina.

621
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: You heard her say she's never lost a race? Where

622
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: did she win all those races? South Carolina? And that

623
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: could catapult her into the upper tier. But is she mind?

624
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: I think is she playing? Hopefully she won't say that

625
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: she considers rself a top tier candidate because we know

626
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: how that worked out for a Kamala remember that. Yeah, well,

627
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: obviously I'm a top tier candidate and then Kamala. I

628
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: don't think she ever broke She also dropped out before

629
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: a single vote happened, So that is not an endorsement.

630
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: I bring up the Kamala comparison just because you know

631
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: she didn't do very well but became the vice president.

632
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: Is Nicky Haley playing for a vice presidential slot? I

633
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: think that is an intriguing play to me. I look

634
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: at it and say, whoever is the nominee? I think

635
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: the vice president should be in a state that that

636
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: vice president can help deliver, bring something to the table

637
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: with y yes. So I don't see South Carolina is

638
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: voting for the Republican. So maybe she wants to be

639
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: Secretary of Day. Maybe she wants to be in a

640
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: cabinet in some way, and that could be part of

641
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: what she brings to the table. But I would be

642
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: very surprised if she is in that top tier. But again,

643
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: if I'm Trump, I'm like, hey, I want twenty people

644
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: running again, because you ain't beat me. If there's twenty,

645
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Speaker 1: if there's two, if there's three, If it's de Santis

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Speaker 1: versus Trump, I think that's a much more difficult battle

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Speaker 1: for him. If it's Trump versus eighteen other people, Trump's

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Speaker 1: gonna be the nominee. Don't get any ideas play. You've

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Speaker 1: got a job here, buddy. All right, we're busy. I've

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Speaker 1: got a big year ahead of us. I could I

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Speaker 1: can get Could I get one percent? Could I get

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Speaker 1: one percent? I'd be happy with one percent because some

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Speaker 1: of those guys who run don't even get one percent. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you get you get some, you get some electoral College,

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Speaker 1: you get some delegates. Can I think I can do

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Speaker 1: well in Tennessee, But many get into one percent the battle.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, you're busy. I'm busy. I'm walked in