WEBVTT - Meet the SPY Kids 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome to Trilliance. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric. Eric. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.760 There is an article recently on Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.040 com terminals by Rachel Evans that sort of broke the terminal. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:20.640 That's one of the things we like to say when 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.560 it gets really high readership. And it was about Spy. Yeah, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.320 I know it articles big. When a lot of people 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.080 forded to me and say did you see this? Did 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.159 you see this? And that happened with this article? It 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.639 was all over Twitter. People could not believe it, And honestly, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.760 I didn't know about it specifically. I knew Spy was 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.000 a unit investment trust, but I didn't know this detail 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.239 and about these kids that were tied to it, and 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.400 I thought it was fascinating. So to break this down, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.199 we brought Rachel in as well as some of the 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.720 Spy kids. Rachel, how did you find out about the 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.319 story and what is it all about? Well, as Eric 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.400 pointed out, like this is something that blew up on Twitter, 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.320 and that's actually where we first came across this. Someone 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.000 posted on Twitter last week or I guess two weeks 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.960 ago when this goes out that they found this like 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.120 weird kind of sentence in the documentation for Spy about 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.040 how it had a set termination date, which is not 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.200 usual in exchange traded funds, and b that the fund 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.959 would either end at this termination date or when the 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.800 last of eleven people named in the documentation died. So 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.320 I got sent this email from a colleague of mine 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.600 out in Hong Kong saying, this is the most fun 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.000 E t F story ever, and I kind of in Spy. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.319 For those who don't know, this is the biggest E 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.560 t F out there. Eric, you you talked about it 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.800 all the time because of how much it trades. Yeah, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.520 just to just drop some figures on Spy. It is 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:42.360 the most traded equity right. There's four to six thousand 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.160 stocks that are trading every day. Spy trades about twenty 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:46.959 billion a day. That's about three or four times more 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.920 than the next most which would be Amazon or Apple 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.160 depending on the day. Um So, in my opinion, Spy 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.360 has become somewhat of a son that a lot of 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.040 the market revolves around. There's options, The options activities on 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.360 Spy is is massive. The trading in his mass if 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.800 people use it for liquidity, they use it for long 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.960 term investing. Um and what's interesting is is probably the 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.480 product that has the most diversified group of investors from traders, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.760 the hedge funds, institutional investors, foreign investors, everybody is in this. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.880 And unlike other s and P five e t s, 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.560 this one, like we mentioned, is a trust. So the 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.000 structure is a little bit different and that's ultimately where 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.720 the bike gets come in. Yeah, so a U I 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.160 T was basically chosen as the structure for the first 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.560 e t F we had, you know, after exchange crash, 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:35.640 we had a lot of people that the American Stock 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.320 Exchange looking for a way to make a tradeable products 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.600 like spy ended up being and to do so, they 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.120 started looking at what structure might work best and settled 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.880 on a unit investment trust because it's trades a bit 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:48.520 like a it can be used to trade a bit 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.120 like a stock, but it also has that kind of 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.359 investment side of things. But one of the issues with 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.079 the U I T is that they have to have, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.160 or at the time had to have a set termination 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.600 date to deal with the rule against perpetuities. And let 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.240 me add a little more to this, because uh, when 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.000 and when you're talking about e t f s, the 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.160 regulatory structure is a field we have on Bloomberg to 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.320 identify what kind of structure because there's different things that 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.919 go along with it. U I T s, which there's 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.760 a handful, maybe half a dozen E t f that 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:17.320 are structured as U I T s, but they have 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.959 of the assets or three hundred and sixty billion SPY 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:22.760 the cues d I A, M, d WI are the 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.000 big popular ones, and a couple of things, not just 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.360 the termination date, which will get into heavily in a minute. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.600 But they can't invest dividends back every day. They can 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.800 only invest them quarterly, so there's a little tiny bit 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.080 of cash drag in a U I T although that 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.080 can help if it's going down because you don't want 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.520 to invest back into the market. The other thing is 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.800 they can't do securities lending. Other E t f s 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.280 which are open end funds, can lend securities. That isn't 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:48.840 a huge deal in large cap stalks, but that can 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.160 add a little extra revenue. So all told, SPY is 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.160 actually the worst performing of the S and p F 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.320 t f s because of those reasons, and because its 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.840 fees a little higher, so a lot of sometimes long 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.120 to an investors will choose I v V or over 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.200 spy for those reasons, but the liquidity is so paramount 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.280 that most people all that doesn't matter. They're just going 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.920 after that liquidity. And one of the things that Rachel 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.920 discovered about this was that that trust was actually set 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.320 to expire in but one of the things that happened 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.680 was that it was extended because of the trust being 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.480 able to attach itself to individuals. Yeah, so this was 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:30.880 kind of like this weird quirk that that we kind 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.320 of came across initially that the trust was, yeah, set 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.360 up for twenty five years, so twenty five years from 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:37.920 that puts you up last year, so we could have 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.720 seen the spy maturing or terminating at that point. However, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:43.719 when it became apparent that this was going to be 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.000 more than just a sort of, you know, flash in 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.160 the pan kind of success, that they worked to extend 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.560 the trust and they extended it a hundred years, and 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.960 then to give it a bit of extra juice, they 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.400 added the names of these eleven individuals and stated that 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.560 the fund would survive to twenty years. It's beyond the 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.080 loss of their depths, potentially giving it a little bit 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.799 of extra extension. No pressure, guys, that's where this week's 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:14.480 episode comes in, this time Montrillian Spy kids, so joining us. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:19.160 This time we've got pomp Avelca, Kevin McGrath and Alexander Most. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.600 Alexander Most is actually the grandson of Nathan Most, who 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.839 actually invented co invented spy in the first place. Guys, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.200 welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us, thanks for 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:31.760 having us. Good to be here. So trace to us. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.080 We'll start with Kevin, what person? What adult when you 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.880 were a baby? Put your name in here. Sure, it's 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.479 my mom, Claire McGrath. She worked for AMEX as a counsel. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.000 At the time, she was a lawyer. And um, maybe 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.080 it's best if I can go back to how this 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.440 kind of all started. Last Thursday, I was reached out 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.840 to by a reporter via LinkedIn who contacted me and 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.400 asked me if my name was Kevin Patrick McGrath, which 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.719 is strange because I don't really use my middle name 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:02.600 in any type of dot like. I think it's maybe 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.320 only on my passport. And he laid out this whole thing. 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.599 Did you have a family member who was in finance? Uh? Uh, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.039 you know you're connected to this very large fund. To me, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.120 I'm reading this as a you know, this is like 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.800 a very elaborate scam, Nigerian prince scam. It's like, wow, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.000 this is uh you guys are really getting into that. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.120 Uh So I was like, Okay, send me the copy 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.599 of the filing. I want to see it, not thinking 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.640 this would turn into anything. Not only sends me the 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.560 filing link, but he sends the an attachment with our 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:38.239 names and it's my name, his name, cousin Paul, and 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.200 uh our cousin Pete. So now then like like I 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.560 was like, whoa, this is weird. And another thing that 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.160 triggered it for me just scrolling through the filing was Spider. Um. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.839 I recognized the name Spider. I went visiting my mom's 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.560 office as a kid. There was a lot of you know, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.479 the one thing every kid does is go to the 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.560 swag room and uh I remember seeing the Spider logo 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.920 and you know, eight a ten year old boy, it's like, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:07.480 oh wow, cool Spider. Yeah, like awesome. Um, that definitely 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.080 lit a bell. I knew it had to be related 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:13.200 to something she did. My concert is like did she 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.400 get involved in the sketchy or is this like I 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.840 assumed it was normal. You know my mom wouldn't do that, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.040 and yeah, it was just kind of off from there. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.920 It was pretty wild. Rachel contacted us, I spoke to 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.640 her and it's just been a very surreal week. So, Paul, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.760 what memories of SPI do you have? Because you and 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.840 Kevin actually have known each other outside of the spy 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.000 kid relationship, right, Yes, that's right. We uh, we grew 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.960 up together. Um, my dad is originally from Long Island, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.800 so for holidays in the summer, we would as a 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.760 family go and visit Kevin and his mom and dad 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.600 and so as far as Spider goes, Uh, this was 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.720 all completely new to me as of last Thursday. Kevin 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.640 reached out to me as I'm getting ready for work. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.800 I work in Philadelphia. I am a bartender, and all 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.040 of a sudden I get a text message from Kevin, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.440 who goes, are reporters trying to reach out to you? 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.240 Now you know, I'm sitting on the bus on my 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.040 way to work, and like why why why are reporters 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.600 reaching out? Like you know, there's like a certain panic. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.680 That's what did I do exactly exactly? Why is my 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.680 cousin that lives in New York asking me and my brother. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.480 If we're hearing from reporters, Okay, there's just like a 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.240 fair amount for a regular Joe Schmoe person, there's like 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.840 a fair amount of like horror that goes into what 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.560 went viral this time? You know, And come to find out, 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.800 I spoke with Rachel as well, you know, standing in 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.040 an alleyway waiting to you know, go into work, and 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:43.880 I'm on the phone with her and she explains how 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.120 all this happened, and between Kevin sort of giving me 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.600 a heads up that hey, there's this reporter from Blueberg 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.440 that's going to reach out to you and actually speaking 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.880 to her properly. Is is how I've been brought up 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.600 to speed, if you want to even call it that. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.840 This is still pretty much the intro was a little 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.719 over my head. It's still at this point that's all 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.640 Alexander's fault. Actually, maybe Alexander, maybe it's your grandfather's fault. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.559 What memories of Nathan Most do you have, Alexander? Yeah, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.800 so you know, I remember Nathan Most pretty well. He 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.000 passed away when I was younger, but he was always 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.000 you know, a large figure patriarch in my family, someone 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.439 who lived a couple of towns away. From me in California. 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.880 But I really didn't know much about his history and 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.200 involvement in the finance world and the history of the 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.040 E T S really until last Thursday, when I got 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.320 a lot more context and learned a lot more about it. 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.640 Do you even remember him telling you stories about the 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.720 E T F or or him being the godfather of 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.560 the E T F or anything like that. I'm not 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.720 a single thing about that, to be honest. Conversations revolved 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.680 around what was for dinner that night. Okay, it's just 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.760 like old school godfather you don't discuss business at the 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.719 dinner table, so come on, I should have known better yet. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.960 I also spoke with Alexander's father and uncle about their 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.000 memories of Native for for the story. I was pretty 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.079 much tracking down everybody's immediate family and then having a conversation. 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:04.880 So that was kind of like great, just to get 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.240 some real color about what they remember about, you know, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.000 Nathan at that time and visiting the American Stock Exchange 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.680 and hearing about his work. So I think, you know, 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.560 it's given us all a lot more history about actually 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.760 how Spy kind of came into being. Then maybe we 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.000 knew this time last week, and um, so there was 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.600 eleven of them. What was there like an email like now, 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.240 I guess it was ninety three where they have sending 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.040 an email. Maybe they actually had a memo back in 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.480 the day or whatever. Did they get the word get 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.360 around the office that we need like baby names and 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.560 can you just talk about how that how they how 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.560 the eleven got chosen. Yeah, so, I mean I had 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.520 a hunch when I was trying to figure out who 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.559 the eleven were that maybe they were connected to the 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.520 American Stock Exchange, and that that proved to be largely correct. Yeah. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.520 My understanding is basically they just put out a call 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.160 for baby names. I'm not sure whether that was done 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.320 by email or carrier pigeon or what. But yeah, Claire 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.600 spoke to me, Kevin's mom spoke to me about how 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.400 she remembers hearing people just asking for for names of 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.800 younger relatives that they could put in this trust. Obviously 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.800 the parents kind of were involved and the AMEX many 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.040 of them directly with actually setting up the e t F, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.080 so they were relatively comfortable with their kids names being used. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.440 You've got to remember this is a pretty arcane legal 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.920 document and to your point about email, you know, the 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.920 Internet hadn't really begun doing its thing in the early nineties, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.720 so the likelihood that their names would ever come to 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.200 light from this, you know, they're going to be buried 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.480 in a document in that the SECS vaults. Um, So yeah, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.520 that they kind of came forward with these names. You know, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.960 we had communications people like giving their step grandkids. We 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.800 had you know, sort of some of the specialists at 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:34.319 the time that we're going to be trading the E 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.400 T F giving their daughter. So yeah, it was a 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.160 very odd thing, but that's how it kind of came about. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.240 And why eleven, that's a great question. I have absolutely 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.680 no idea. I think they wanted to move if you 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.199 have one, obviously that's a bit risky, so neverification. I 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.360 don't know whether any of the Spike kids though this, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.040 but my kind of sense is that it was just 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.800 a large enough group whereby you're not putting all of 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.200 that pressure on one person to stay alive. Did you 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.080 guys look at the other eleven names? How many do 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.679 you guys know? I don't know any of them, but 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.720 my mom just I mean, yeah, yeah, my younger brother 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.680 is also one of the eleven, but he works for 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.760 the water department, so he didn't get off today. Uncle, 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:15.079 he's not a bartender like so and Alexander. Um, how 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.599 many names did you know? Absolutely not at all to you. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.720 It's ben't surprised that anyone do anyone at all cost 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.199 very here. Yeah, I think part of it was also 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.920 I don't know why the number, but I think part 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.880 of why my cousins and I were chosen because I 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.600 think they wanted some geographical diversity as well. It's like 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.040 another big thing. But um, yeah, a lot of the 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.679 people were names my mom recognized. Webber I think who 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.840 you spoke? Claire Webber's Cliff Webber's daughter. He was a 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.000 big part of this. Rachel, I have a question for you. 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.040 How did you track them down? Just cure? I'm not 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.880 sure if you can unveil your methods. But it was 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.160 like Google to LinkedIn to all that. Yeah, I mean 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.079 it's kind of like rule on. I wanted a reporter 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.400 just be dugged and keep looking. Um so, I mean, 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.560 given I had a list of full names, had a 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.920 list of some addresses, the subdates of birth, really Google 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.920 and then just hitting the phones, you can't be a 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.240 good bit of a sort of old fashioned footwork and 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.280 trying to track people down. Did you reach out to 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.920 anybody who was like, no carment, stay away from me. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.960 Kevin alluded to thinking that this was a scam when 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.120 he was first reaked out to you on LinkedIn, and 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 I definitely spoke with a couple of other people directly 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.360 who were like, m uh huh, yeah, my work says, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.920 you're trying to fish me. Um. So there were a 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.720 few people that were very suspicious of this, and completely 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.720 understandably so, I mean, it's not every day you get 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.679 a call completely out of the blue where somebody has 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.280 your full name, your address, your relationships with various people. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.000 I can totally understand how it would freak anybody out, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.280 and trying to reassure people that I wasn't there to 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.680 fish them. I just had this like really odd story 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.200 about how they were connected to two fifty billion fund, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.840 which again sounds very scammy. It was a little bit 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.280 of a challenge. How would you like to make two 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.800 it's reach the Nigerian Princess of I do have a 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.319 question for Rachel actually, so you're the one who did 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.240 like a lot of the search on on this. We're 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.840 eleven individuals we are named in this document is there 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.439 in your research? Is there somebody keeping track of us? 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.080 I mean, and Claire said that she didn't give them, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.120 Like our social security numbers are my parents don't remember 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.600 giving my aunt our social security numbers to be attached 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.160 to this document. So like, what if we change our names? 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.400 What if we like decide to go underground, Like how 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.120 will that impact? Yes, hit up deed Pole, get that 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.240 name change? I don't know, I don't know. It's a 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.040 great question, um. And we actually reached out to State 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.480 Street that currently runs the fund to see if they 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.640 had any comment on this or any color on what 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.480 they were doing is to keep tabs on things, and 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.800 they refer comment to the New York Stock Exchange, which 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.160 obviously bought the AMX, who declined to comment. So we 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.160 don't know. I mean, it seems as though at the 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.080 moment your your names are out there and I'm sure 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.240 people are keeping a closer watch on you than maybe 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.640 they were before. But a sort of room that has 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:56.280 all of our pictures and heartbeats and current locations known 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.640 alias is now you should do that at the bar? Well? 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:04.480 I'm yeah, No, I don't know if anyone's actually keeping 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.720 a direct record, So I mean, it seems like you 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.840 guys are probably safe in that respect for now. All right, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.320 very cool, good to know. I can sleep easy tonight. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.080 So what if you wanted to get your name removed 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.520 from this? I am not sure you would have to 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.040 ask a unit investment trust lawyer. My understanding is that 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.600 these things can be amended, so you could replace the 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.120 list with other babies, But I'm not sure whether you 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.200 could remove one name, right, I um, I have some 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.800 lawyer regulars that sit at the bar who will remain nameless. 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.400 And after the first few like questions of do you 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:36.960 get the money? Are they going to put it here 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.640 on you? Like? The next question that of course the 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.520 lawyers asked is how does this make you feel? Do 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.680 you feel harmed by this? Is this causing emotional dress 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.800 for you? That reporters are coming out of the woodwork, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:55.080 and and and and how does it feel that your yeah, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.920 how do how do you feel that your existence is 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.640 tied to this multibillion dollar thing? Right? So the question 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.200 was like, well, can we can we maybe get some 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.880 legal money ont of this some damages situation? And listen, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.000 if you bring a claim against whoever would be that 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.120 is like the person that the claim would be brought 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.440 against UM. I mean, I'm obviously not suing Aunt Claire 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.000 because I love my Christmas presents. UM, if if we 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.240 try to bring suit, then they'll just amend us out. 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:22.880 They'll just be like, all right, well we're not gonna 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:24.840 give you damagees, You're just not part of this anymore. 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.800 And then me, I won't have the fun fact that 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.440 Alexander and Kevin and I and Pete all have. So 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.960 when when you went to Aunt Claire or your mom 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.880 your aunt, right mom mom? For him? Did she have 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.640 I'm picturing a movie where they go. I knew this 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.440 day would come like did she sit you down and 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.320 you know, explain like who you are, like the special 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:51.040 superpower you have her? No, it was morea did I 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:56.400 do that now? Yeah? You know? Again to go back 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.800 to kind of Rachel's point that we were discussing a 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.840 little bit earlier, these were I think it's like a 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.080 sixty plus page document that nobody was expecting. I mean, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.520 people don't read their iTunes terms and conditions nowadays. That's 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.080 like actual legal things that they should care about. And like, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.480 now somebody's fishing through the sixty page filing for this 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.000 E T I mean, obviously it being the biggest ETF 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.640 probably garner that attention. Um, but yeah it was interesting. Yeah. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:30.960 She was totally like, yeah, I guess I must have. Um. So, Alexander. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.920 When we talk to people in our in all of 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.600 our conversations about exchange traded funds, Nathan Most is sort 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.679 of viewed as as basically the guy who you know 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.960 created the thing, and so everything that we've seen e 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.240 t f s do in in finance and foreign investors 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.479 basically goes back to your grandfather. Uh. Eric, When you 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.040 kind of think about the impact that that's had in finance, 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.280 like what you know, put it in context for us, 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.520 I can't understate it. Um. I think, you know, besides 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.040 Vanguard and John Bogel and introducing index funds and the 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.000 mutual ownership structure, this is right up there in terms 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.040 of things that have affected the financial markets in the 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.040 last fifty years. UM. Nathan Most, who I researched a lot. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.959 I talked with your your grandfather's colleague named Steve Bloom 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.600 when I was researching a book. He's hard to reach. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.000 He's like Professor Faulkner from War Games. You can find him, 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.080 but he it's hard and I did get him on 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.159 on the call on a call for an hour and 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:33.080 he spoke highly reference. Thank you. It's it's totally appropriate. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.840 And just so you know, UM, this was a big deal. Um. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.680 Him and your grandfather were in an office in the 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.720 American Stock is Change, which was in third place, right, 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.080 So it was kind of a story of the down 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.040 and out um exchange looking for an idea and they 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.640 found it in spy and your grandfather and Steve developed 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.280 this product and it took a while, but now e 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.840 t f s take in you know, the majority of 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.280 all new flows that in America. I mean, this is 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.560 a big, big deal. Thirty a half of the top 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.320 thirty biggest asset managers have ETFs and a lot of 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.960 people are using them because they're cheap, tax efficient, YadA, YadA. 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.680 I equate them to the MP three. I think what 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.639 he did was similar to what the MP three did 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.960 the music. So what do you think of that? You know, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.359 I think it's really interesting, especially because I myself a 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.840 few investments I have are invested in e t s 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.000 and seen saying that's really democratized investing and made accessible 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.880 to just average people outside of actual manager's a fascinating 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.720 piece of history and kind of interesting. Can you give 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.600 us any of the E t F you own? I 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:43.800 actually invest in by the Okay, I have to say so, Um, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.719 if you google Nate most John Bogel, your grandfather went 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.320