1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Trilliance. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric. Eric. 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: There is an article recently on Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: com terminals by Rachel Evans that sort of broke the terminal. 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: That's one of the things we like to say when 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: it gets really high readership. And it was about Spy. Yeah, 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: I know it articles big. When a lot of people 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: forded to me and say did you see this? Did 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: you see this? And that happened with this article? It 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: was all over Twitter. People could not believe it, And honestly, 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know about it specifically. I knew Spy was 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: a unit investment trust, but I didn't know this detail 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: and about these kids that were tied to it, and 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: I thought it was fascinating. So to break this down, 14 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: we brought Rachel in as well as some of the 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: Spy kids. Rachel, how did you find out about the 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: story and what is it all about? Well, as Eric 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: pointed out, like this is something that blew up on Twitter, 18 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: and that's actually where we first came across this. Someone 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: posted on Twitter last week or I guess two weeks 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: ago when this goes out that they found this like 21 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: weird kind of sentence in the documentation for Spy about 22 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: how it had a set termination date, which is not 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: usual in exchange traded funds, and b that the fund 24 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: would either end at this termination date or when the 25 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: last of eleven people named in the documentation died. So 26 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: I got sent this email from a colleague of mine 27 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: out in Hong Kong saying, this is the most fun 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: E t F story ever, and I kind of in Spy. 29 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: For those who don't know, this is the biggest E 30 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: t F out there. Eric, you you talked about it 31 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: all the time because of how much it trades. Yeah, 32 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: just to just drop some figures on Spy. It is 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: the most traded equity right. There's four to six thousand 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: stocks that are trading every day. Spy trades about twenty 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: billion a day. That's about three or four times more 36 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: than the next most which would be Amazon or Apple 37 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: depending on the day. Um So, in my opinion, Spy 38 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: has become somewhat of a son that a lot of 39 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: the market revolves around. There's options, The options activities on 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: Spy is is massive. The trading in his mass if 41 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: people use it for liquidity, they use it for long 42 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: term investing. Um and what's interesting is is probably the 43 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: product that has the most diversified group of investors from traders, 44 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: the hedge funds, institutional investors, foreign investors, everybody is in this. 45 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: And unlike other s and P five e t s, 46 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: this one, like we mentioned, is a trust. So the 47 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: structure is a little bit different and that's ultimately where 48 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: the bike gets come in. Yeah, so a U I 49 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: T was basically chosen as the structure for the first 50 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: e t F we had, you know, after exchange crash, 51 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: we had a lot of people that the American Stock 52 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: Exchange looking for a way to make a tradeable products 53 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: like spy ended up being and to do so, they 54 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: started looking at what structure might work best and settled 55 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: on a unit investment trust because it's trades a bit 56 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: like a it can be used to trade a bit 57 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: like a stock, but it also has that kind of 58 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: investment side of things. But one of the issues with 59 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: the U I T is that they have to have, 60 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: or at the time had to have a set termination 61 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: date to deal with the rule against perpetuities. And let 62 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: me add a little more to this, because uh, when 63 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and when you're talking about e t f s, the 64 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: regulatory structure is a field we have on Bloomberg to 65 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: identify what kind of structure because there's different things that 66 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: go along with it. U I T s, which there's 67 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: a handful, maybe half a dozen E t f that 68 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: are structured as U I T s, but they have 69 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: of the assets or three hundred and sixty billion SPY 70 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: the cues d I A, M, d WI are the 71 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: big popular ones, and a couple of things, not just 72 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: the termination date, which will get into heavily in a minute. 73 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: But they can't invest dividends back every day. They can 74 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: only invest them quarterly, so there's a little tiny bit 75 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: of cash drag in a U I T although that 76 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: can help if it's going down because you don't want 77 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: to invest back into the market. The other thing is 78 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: they can't do securities lending. Other E t f s 79 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: which are open end funds, can lend securities. That isn't 80 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: a huge deal in large cap stalks, but that can 81 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: add a little extra revenue. So all told, SPY is 82 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: actually the worst performing of the S and p F 83 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: t f s because of those reasons, and because its 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: fees a little higher, so a lot of sometimes long 85 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: to an investors will choose I v V or over 86 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: spy for those reasons, but the liquidity is so paramount 87 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: that most people all that doesn't matter. They're just going 88 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: after that liquidity. And one of the things that Rachel 89 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: discovered about this was that that trust was actually set 90 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: to expire in but one of the things that happened 91 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: was that it was extended because of the trust being 92 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: able to attach itself to individuals. Yeah, so this was 93 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: kind of like this weird quirk that that we kind 94 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: of came across initially that the trust was, yeah, set 95 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: up for twenty five years, so twenty five years from 96 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: that puts you up last year, so we could have 97 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: seen the spy maturing or terminating at that point. However, 98 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: when it became apparent that this was going to be 99 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: more than just a sort of, you know, flash in 100 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: the pan kind of success, that they worked to extend 101 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: the trust and they extended it a hundred years, and 102 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: then to give it a bit of extra juice, they 103 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: added the names of these eleven individuals and stated that 104 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: the fund would survive to twenty years. It's beyond the 105 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: loss of their depths, potentially giving it a little bit 106 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 1: of extra extension. No pressure, guys, that's where this week's 107 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: episode comes in, this time Montrillian Spy kids, so joining us. 108 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: This time we've got pomp Avelca, Kevin McGrath and Alexander Most. 109 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: Alexander Most is actually the grandson of Nathan Most, who 110 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: actually invented co invented spy in the first place. Guys, 111 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us, thanks for 112 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: having us. Good to be here. So trace to us. 113 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: We'll start with Kevin, what person? What adult when you 114 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: were a baby? Put your name in here. Sure, it's 115 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: my mom, Claire McGrath. She worked for AMEX as a counsel. 116 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: At the time, she was a lawyer. And um, maybe 117 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: it's best if I can go back to how this 118 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: kind of all started. Last Thursday, I was reached out 119 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: to by a reporter via LinkedIn who contacted me and 120 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: asked me if my name was Kevin Patrick McGrath, which 121 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: is strange because I don't really use my middle name 122 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: in any type of dot like. I think it's maybe 123 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: only on my passport. And he laid out this whole thing. 124 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: Did you have a family member who was in finance? Uh? Uh, 125 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: you know you're connected to this very large fund. To me, 126 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm reading this as a you know, this is like 127 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: a very elaborate scam, Nigerian prince scam. It's like, wow, 128 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: this is uh you guys are really getting into that. 129 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: Uh So I was like, Okay, send me the copy 130 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: of the filing. I want to see it, not thinking 131 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: this would turn into anything. Not only sends me the 132 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: filing link, but he sends the an attachment with our 133 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: names and it's my name, his name, cousin Paul, and 134 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: uh our cousin Pete. So now then like like I 135 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: was like, whoa, this is weird. And another thing that 136 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: triggered it for me just scrolling through the filing was Spider. Um. 137 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: I recognized the name Spider. I went visiting my mom's 138 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: office as a kid. There was a lot of you know, 139 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: the one thing every kid does is go to the 140 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: swag room and uh I remember seeing the Spider logo 141 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: and you know, eight a ten year old boy, it's like, 142 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: oh wow, cool Spider. Yeah, like awesome. Um, that definitely 143 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: lit a bell. I knew it had to be related 144 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: to something she did. My concert is like did she 145 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: get involved in the sketchy or is this like I 146 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: assumed it was normal. You know my mom wouldn't do that, 147 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: and yeah, it was just kind of off from there. 148 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: It was pretty wild. Rachel contacted us, I spoke to 149 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: her and it's just been a very surreal week. So, Paul, 150 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: what memories of SPI do you have? Because you and 151 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Kevin actually have known each other outside of the spy 152 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: kid relationship, right, Yes, that's right. We uh, we grew 153 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: up together. Um, my dad is originally from Long Island, 154 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: so for holidays in the summer, we would as a 155 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: family go and visit Kevin and his mom and dad 156 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: and so as far as Spider goes, Uh, this was 157 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: all completely new to me as of last Thursday. Kevin 158 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: reached out to me as I'm getting ready for work. 159 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: I work in Philadelphia. I am a bartender, and all 160 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden I get a text message from Kevin, 161 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: who goes, are reporters trying to reach out to you? 162 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: Now you know, I'm sitting on the bus on my 163 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: way to work, and like why why why are reporters 164 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: reaching out? Like you know, there's like a certain panic. 165 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: That's what did I do exactly exactly? Why is my 166 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: cousin that lives in New York asking me and my brother. 167 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: If we're hearing from reporters, Okay, there's just like a 168 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: fair amount for a regular Joe Schmoe person, there's like 169 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: a fair amount of like horror that goes into what 170 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: went viral this time? You know, And come to find out, 171 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: I spoke with Rachel as well, you know, standing in 172 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: an alleyway waiting to you know, go into work, and 173 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with her and she explains how 174 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: all this happened, and between Kevin sort of giving me 175 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: a heads up that hey, there's this reporter from Blueberg 176 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: that's going to reach out to you and actually speaking 177 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: to her properly. Is is how I've been brought up 178 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: to speed, if you want to even call it that. 179 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: This is still pretty much the intro was a little 180 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 1: over my head. It's still at this point that's all 181 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: Alexander's fault. Actually, maybe Alexander, maybe it's your grandfather's fault. 182 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: What memories of Nathan Most do you have, Alexander? Yeah, 183 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: so you know, I remember Nathan Most pretty well. He 184 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: passed away when I was younger, but he was always 185 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, a large figure patriarch in my family, someone 186 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: who lived a couple of towns away. From me in California. 187 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: But I really didn't know much about his history and 188 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: involvement in the finance world and the history of the 189 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: E T S really until last Thursday, when I got 190 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: a lot more context and learned a lot more about it. 191 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: Do you even remember him telling you stories about the 192 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: E T F or or him being the godfather of 193 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: the E T F or anything like that. I'm not 194 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: a single thing about that, to be honest. Conversations revolved 195 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: around what was for dinner that night. Okay, it's just 196 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: like old school godfather you don't discuss business at the 197 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: dinner table, so come on, I should have known better yet. 198 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: I also spoke with Alexander's father and uncle about their 199 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: memories of Native for for the story. I was pretty 200 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: much tracking down everybody's immediate family and then having a conversation. 201 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: So that was kind of like great, just to get 202 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: some real color about what they remember about, you know, 203 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: Nathan at that time and visiting the American Stock Exchange 204 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: and hearing about his work. So I think, you know, 205 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: it's given us all a lot more history about actually 206 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: how Spy kind of came into being. Then maybe we 207 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: knew this time last week, and um, so there was 208 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: eleven of them. What was there like an email like now, 209 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I guess it was ninety three where they have sending 210 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: an email. Maybe they actually had a memo back in 211 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: the day or whatever. Did they get the word get 212 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: around the office that we need like baby names and 213 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: can you just talk about how that how they how 214 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: the eleven got chosen. Yeah, so, I mean I had 215 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: a hunch when I was trying to figure out who 216 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: the eleven were that maybe they were connected to the 217 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: American Stock Exchange, and that that proved to be largely correct. Yeah. 218 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: My understanding is basically they just put out a call 219 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: for baby names. I'm not sure whether that was done 220 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: by email or carrier pigeon or what. But yeah, Claire 221 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: spoke to me, Kevin's mom spoke to me about how 222 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: she remembers hearing people just asking for for names of 223 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: younger relatives that they could put in this trust. Obviously 224 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: the parents kind of were involved and the AMEX many 225 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: of them directly with actually setting up the e t F, 226 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: so they were relatively comfortable with their kids names being used. 227 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: You've got to remember this is a pretty arcane legal 228 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: document and to your point about email, you know, the 229 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: Internet hadn't really begun doing its thing in the early nineties, 230 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: so the likelihood that their names would ever come to 231 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: light from this, you know, they're going to be buried 232 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: in a document in that the SECS vaults. Um, So yeah, 233 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: that they kind of came forward with these names. You know, 234 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: we had communications people like giving their step grandkids. We 235 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: had you know, sort of some of the specialists at 236 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: the time that we're going to be trading the E 237 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: T F giving their daughter. So yeah, it was a 238 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: very odd thing, but that's how it kind of came about. 239 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: And why eleven, that's a great question. I have absolutely 240 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: no idea. I think they wanted to move if you 241 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: have one, obviously that's a bit risky, so neverification. I 242 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: don't know whether any of the Spike kids though this, 243 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: but my kind of sense is that it was just 244 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: a large enough group whereby you're not putting all of 245 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: that pressure on one person to stay alive. Did you 246 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: guys look at the other eleven names? How many do 247 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: you guys know? I don't know any of them, but 248 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: my mom just I mean, yeah, yeah, my younger brother 249 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: is also one of the eleven, but he works for 250 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: the water department, so he didn't get off today. Uncle, 251 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: he's not a bartender like so and Alexander. Um, how 252 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,599 Speaker 1: many names did you know? Absolutely not at all to you. 253 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: It's ben't surprised that anyone do anyone at all cost 254 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: very here. Yeah, I think part of it was also 255 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't know why the number, but I think part 256 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: of why my cousins and I were chosen because I 257 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: think they wanted some geographical diversity as well. It's like 258 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: another big thing. But um, yeah, a lot of the 259 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: people were names my mom recognized. Webber I think who 260 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: you spoke? Claire Webber's Cliff Webber's daughter. He was a 261 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: big part of this. Rachel, I have a question for you. 262 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: How did you track them down? Just cure? I'm not 263 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: sure if you can unveil your methods. But it was 264 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: like Google to LinkedIn to all that. Yeah, I mean 265 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: it's kind of like rule on. I wanted a reporter 266 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: just be dugged and keep looking. Um so, I mean, 267 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: given I had a list of full names, had a 268 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: list of some addresses, the subdates of birth, really Google 269 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: and then just hitting the phones, you can't be a 270 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: good bit of a sort of old fashioned footwork and 271 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: trying to track people down. Did you reach out to 272 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: anybody who was like, no carment, stay away from me. 273 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: Kevin alluded to thinking that this was a scam when 274 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: he was first reaked out to you on LinkedIn, and 275 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: I definitely spoke with a couple of other people directly 276 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: who were like, m uh huh, yeah, my work says, 277 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: you're trying to fish me. Um. So there were a 278 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: few people that were very suspicious of this, and completely 279 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: understandably so, I mean, it's not every day you get 280 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: a call completely out of the blue where somebody has 281 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: your full name, your address, your relationships with various people. 282 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: I can totally understand how it would freak anybody out, 283 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: and trying to reassure people that I wasn't there to 284 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: fish them. I just had this like really odd story 285 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: about how they were connected to two fifty billion fund, 286 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: which again sounds very scammy. It was a little bit 287 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of a challenge. How would you like to make two 288 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: it's reach the Nigerian Princess of I do have a 289 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: question for Rachel actually, so you're the one who did 290 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: like a lot of the search on on this. We're 291 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: eleven individuals we are named in this document is there 292 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: in your research? Is there somebody keeping track of us? 293 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: I mean, and Claire said that she didn't give them, 294 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: Like our social security numbers are my parents don't remember 295 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: giving my aunt our social security numbers to be attached 296 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: to this document. So like, what if we change our names? 297 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: What if we like decide to go underground, Like how 298 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: will that impact? Yes, hit up deed Pole, get that 299 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: name change? I don't know, I don't know. It's a 300 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: great question, um. And we actually reached out to State 301 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: Street that currently runs the fund to see if they 302 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: had any comment on this or any color on what 303 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: they were doing is to keep tabs on things, and 304 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: they refer comment to the New York Stock Exchange, which 305 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: obviously bought the AMX, who declined to comment. So we 306 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it seems as though at the 307 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: moment your your names are out there and I'm sure 308 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: people are keeping a closer watch on you than maybe 309 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: they were before. But a sort of room that has 310 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: all of our pictures and heartbeats and current locations known 311 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: alias is now you should do that at the bar? Well? 312 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm yeah, No, I don't know if anyone's actually keeping 313 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: a direct record, So I mean, it seems like you 314 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: guys are probably safe in that respect for now. All right, 315 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: very cool, good to know. I can sleep easy tonight. 316 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: So what if you wanted to get your name removed 317 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: from this? I am not sure you would have to 318 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: ask a unit investment trust lawyer. My understanding is that 319 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: these things can be amended, so you could replace the 320 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: list with other babies, But I'm not sure whether you 321 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: could remove one name, right, I um, I have some 322 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: lawyer regulars that sit at the bar who will remain nameless. 323 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: And after the first few like questions of do you 324 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: get the money? Are they going to put it here 325 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: on you? Like? The next question that of course the 326 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: lawyers asked is how does this make you feel? Do 327 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: you feel harmed by this? Is this causing emotional dress 328 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: for you? That reporters are coming out of the woodwork, 329 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: and and and and how does it feel that your yeah, 330 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: how do how do you feel that your existence is 331 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: tied to this multibillion dollar thing? Right? So the question 332 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: was like, well, can we can we maybe get some 333 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: legal money ont of this some damages situation? And listen, 334 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: if you bring a claim against whoever would be that 335 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: is like the person that the claim would be brought 336 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: against UM. I mean, I'm obviously not suing Aunt Claire 337 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: because I love my Christmas presents. UM, if if we 338 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: try to bring suit, then they'll just amend us out. 339 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: They'll just be like, all right, well we're not gonna 340 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: give you damagees, You're just not part of this anymore. 341 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: And then me, I won't have the fun fact that 342 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: Alexander and Kevin and I and Pete all have. So 343 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: when when you went to Aunt Claire or your mom 344 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: your aunt, right mom mom? For him? Did she have 345 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm picturing a movie where they go. I knew this 346 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: day would come like did she sit you down and 347 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: you know, explain like who you are, like the special 348 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: superpower you have her? No, it was morea did I 349 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: do that now? Yeah? You know? Again to go back 350 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: to kind of Rachel's point that we were discussing a 351 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: little bit earlier, these were I think it's like a 352 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: sixty plus page document that nobody was expecting. I mean, 353 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: people don't read their iTunes terms and conditions nowadays. That's 354 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: like actual legal things that they should care about. And like, 355 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: now somebody's fishing through the sixty page filing for this 356 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: E T I mean, obviously it being the biggest ETF 357 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: probably garner that attention. Um, but yeah it was interesting. Yeah. 358 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: She was totally like, yeah, I guess I must have. Um. So, Alexander. 359 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: When we talk to people in our in all of 360 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: our conversations about exchange traded funds, Nathan Most is sort 361 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: of viewed as as basically the guy who you know 362 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: created the thing, and so everything that we've seen e 363 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: t f s do in in finance and foreign investors 364 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 1: basically goes back to your grandfather. Uh. Eric, When you 365 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: kind of think about the impact that that's had in finance, 366 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: like what you know, put it in context for us, 367 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: I can't understate it. Um. I think, you know, besides 368 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: Vanguard and John Bogel and introducing index funds and the 369 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: mutual ownership structure, this is right up there in terms 370 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: of things that have affected the financial markets in the 371 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: last fifty years. UM. Nathan Most, who I researched a lot. 372 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: I talked with your your grandfather's colleague named Steve Bloom 373 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: when I was researching a book. He's hard to reach. 374 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: He's like Professor Faulkner from War Games. You can find him, 375 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: but he it's hard and I did get him on 376 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: on the call on a call for an hour and 377 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: he spoke highly reference. Thank you. It's it's totally appropriate. 378 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: And just so you know, UM, this was a big deal. Um. 379 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: Him and your grandfather were in an office in the 380 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: American Stock is Change, which was in third place, right, 381 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: So it was kind of a story of the down 382 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: and out um exchange looking for an idea and they 383 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: found it in spy and your grandfather and Steve developed 384 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: this product and it took a while, but now e 385 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: t f s take in you know, the majority of 386 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: all new flows that in America. I mean, this is 387 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: a big, big deal. Thirty a half of the top 388 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: thirty biggest asset managers have ETFs and a lot of 389 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: people are using them because they're cheap, tax efficient, YadA, YadA. 390 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: I equate them to the MP three. I think what 391 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: he did was similar to what the MP three did 392 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: the music. So what do you think of that? You know, 393 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting, especially because I myself a 394 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: few investments I have are invested in e t s 395 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: and seen saying that's really democratized investing and made accessible 396 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: to just average people outside of actual manager's a fascinating 397 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: piece of history and kind of interesting. Can you give 398 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: us any of the E t F you own? I 399 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: actually invest in by the Okay, I have to say so, Um, 400 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: if you google Nate most John Bogel, your grandfather went 401 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: to see Bogel to try to get the Vanguard five 402 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: hundred to be the first E t F and Bogel 403 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: told him, no way, I don't want trading any anywhere 404 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: near my E t F. But apparently Bogel says he 405 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: gave him some ideas. So long story short, there's a 406 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: lot of history in your video of it is so ironic. Okay, So, Paul, 407 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: you're a bartender twenty something. I knew nothing about E 408 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: t F before this article published. How is this going 409 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: to change your life? Well, for the record, I'm the 410 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: oldest member of the spy group. Um so, the de 411 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: facto patriarch in my opinion. Um So, you know I've 412 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: been telling my bar guests about this, right because you know, 413 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: when you sit at a bar, it's dinner in a 414 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: show and the first question that they ask is am 415 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: I going to get any money out of this? And 416 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: you know they're disappointed to hear no, I'm not. But 417 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: how do you how do you get into that? Is 418 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: it like a little trivia about myself? Oh, it's actually 419 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: ridiculously difficult to explain to anybody, Like, hey, read this 420 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: article that my name is in like four yeah, yeah, 421 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: and they're like and it and it's like twenty minutes later, 422 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: they're done their drink. There's there's tickets printing in the 423 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: back that I'm just ignoring because I'm trying to explain 424 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: this to my bar guests and most of the time 425 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: they still don't get it. So the question that I 426 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: get asked after that is, well, do they want to 427 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: kill you to make the to make the trust mature? 428 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: And that was you know, that was my second question, Like, 429 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: is Rachel putting me on a hit list right now? 430 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: Is this is this happening? And um, I mean you're 431 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: the financial experts. I'm safe, I hope right. I mean, 432 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: there are some desperate active mutual funds out there, but 433 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: I don't think they go that far. Yeah, it's funny. 434 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: I got a number of pitches for potential thrillers based 435 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: on the spike. It's how they're all bumped off secretly 436 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: over a period of time and what happens to this. 437 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: But no rest assured is twenty years after the death 438 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: of the last person. Definitely enough time for the managers 439 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: of the fund to sort out, making bumping you guys 440 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: off very very unnecessary. Indeed, right, if somebody wants to 441 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: make money from this trust, they can just sell their shares, right, 442 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: And so I mean, don't please keep that in mind. 443 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: What would be hit people? Uh So, what actually does 444 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: happen when this you know, expiration it gets hit and 445 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: so we will see the termination of Spy if we 446 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: get to that point. However, the lawyers that I have 447 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: spoken to since have emphasized the fact that the rule 448 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: of perpetuities has now been taken off the books in 449 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: New York. So there is the potential to just amend 450 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: SPY again and extend the termination date out further, or 451 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: remove the termination date altogether. Potentially you could have another 452 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: group of babies put into to give it that lifespan aspect, 453 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: but you don't need to given that the rule of 454 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: perpetuities has ended, So you could have a new fund 455 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: set up to gradually take the assets. You could have 456 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: another amendment, but ultimately it seems like Spy or equivalent 457 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: is not going anywhere, so Kevin, how did this article 458 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: you you work in finance a little bit, you're in 459 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: pr How did this this article change things for you? Um? Well, 460 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: I just kind of learned a lot um. That's probably 461 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: the most interesting thing. I mean, I knew what my 462 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: mom did. I always was kind of just being changed 463 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: gently you here talk over the dinner table, you know, 464 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: that type of thing. But it was just interesting to 465 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: hear really like the story of how this you know, 466 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: why they chose to Unitary Investment Trust. You know, it 467 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: was really because at the time they had to push 468 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: this through the SEC and they actually had to get 469 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: two divisions of the SEC to work on this, so 470 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: they wanted to keep it as simple as possible and 471 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: they had to basically take a known vehicle for this investment. 472 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: And that's how they basically it settled on this Unitary 473 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: Investment Trust. And that's why they had to put our 474 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: names in. And that's you know, again the rural perpetuities 475 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: like you're saying before. I mean, I think that's really 476 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: the fascinating story of just persistence in like creating this 477 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: new vehicle for investment. Maybe Michael Lewis book and for me, 478 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: it always speaks to the fact that you know, behind 479 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: all of the finance industry there are people, right and 480 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: like you know, we've interviewed a lot of people who 481 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: were around the creation of it, and there was so 482 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: much pride in it because people were just like, hey, 483 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: we can create something new. I think finance sometimes gets 484 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: a bad rap, rightfully so. But the other side of 485 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: it is a lot of people have made a lot 486 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: of money thanks to the innovations that have come through this, 487 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: and those are rooted in people and ideas. Alexander, how 488 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: do you think this article will change things for you? Well, 489 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: I have the greatest fun fact of all time now. 490 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: But besides that, I really just wonder. You know, we 491 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: talked about the potential intrigue around us being assassinated or something. 492 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: I think that the people in the financial industry should 493 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: pay to keep me healthy. So this stays around. And Alexander, 494 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: did anybody from your family say anything or have any reaction? 495 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: I mean, too is actually my mom got the phone 496 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: call on our family office, and then she's the one 497 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: who contacted me with the ridiculous two billion dollar number 498 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: many times mentioned seemed like a scamp. Everyone said it's 499 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: pretty cool and been talking about it I've been reached 500 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: out to plenty of time, um, and we all want 501 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: some sort of money out of it, but it doesn't 502 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: amen out. Yeah, and I have to say, I mean 503 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: I spoke with a lot of the parents here. I 504 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: spoke with Claire and with her husband George, and they 505 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: were both kind of like, oh, I vaguely remember something 506 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: like this, but I didn't expect it to come back 507 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: to me years later. What they should have done is 508 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: given you a couple of shares a spy when I 509 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: guess how much it is up since a cool one percent? Yeah, 510 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: so ten dollars would be whatever Joel you told me 511 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: the math on that you know a few more than 512 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: it was. Then all right, Alexander Paul Kevin, thank you 513 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on Trillians. Rachel the Nigerian 514 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: Princess as always pleasure. Thank you. If you're interested in 515 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: learning more about the creation of spin, Eric and I 516 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: actually have a special season of Trillions called The et 517 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: F Story that you can find on Boomberg or iTunes 518 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: or wherever else you listen to podcasts, and you'll get 519 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: to hear from the very people around the creation of 520 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: Spy and how it came. Then just being Thanks for 521 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: listening to truckings until next time. You can find us 522 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, 523 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: and wherever else you like to listen. We'd love to 524 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Weber Show. 525 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: He's at Eric Faltunist. I find Rachel at Rachel Evans. 526 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: Underscore in Why Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Francesca 527 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: Levy is the head of Bloomberg podcast by