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Speaker 1: at black effect dot Com back Slash Podcast Festival. I'm
Speaker 1: with Lucas and this is Black Tech, Dreen Money. John
Speaker 1: and Mike Burns, known as the Burns Brothers, are serial
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs with companies in a variety of verticals like organizational
Speaker 1: culture and diversity, marketing, PR and events, hospitality, and lifestyle.
Speaker 1: You may have heard of their companies like Manchester Park
Speaker 1: Created Agency, HQ House, a Social Club, a Koy Collective,
Speaker 1: a DEI Strategy, firm. John is an attorney by trade
Speaker 1: and community activists. Mike is a seasoned executive coach and
Speaker 1: former army officer. The Burns brothers have found synergy working
Speaker 1: together and their company is growing internationally and they set
Speaker 1: their sites on the African continent, working in Kenya, South Africa,
Speaker 1: Ethiopia and more. There's a lot of opportunity on the
Speaker 1: continent that many black entrepreneurs from the States had taken
Speaker 1: advantage of, whether it is simply finding opportunities or partnering
Speaker 1: with natives own business moves.
Speaker 2: For the Burns brothers, what about.
Speaker 1: The continent, said to them, this is your next move.
Speaker 3: So Mike and I've been doing work in Africa for
Speaker 3: the last five seven years, so we understood kind of
Speaker 3: the opportunity that exists there and the need that exists there.
Speaker 3: But we also wanted to be a bridge between African
Speaker 3: Americans here in this country and then Africans on the continent.
Speaker 3: We recognize that Africa is going to be twenty five
Speaker 3: percent of the world's population in the next decade and
Speaker 3: a half, and so how can we be stewards for change?
Speaker 3: How can we really be that connective tissue? And we
Speaker 3: thought just based upon our experience, there is tremendous opportunity
Speaker 3: to have that connection point.
Speaker 1: So when you think about going into new territory, there's
Speaker 1: not just about having the dollars and resources to go
Speaker 1: open up, but there's also you know, political implications and
Speaker 1: not that And I don't mean like law and politics,
Speaker 1: but I mean but like nuances about being in a
Speaker 1: certain space that you don't necessarily know being from the
Speaker 1: proverbial outside.
Speaker 2: So how do you do that.
Speaker 1: When you go into a space like did you have
Speaker 1: local partners How did you consider this new territory to
Speaker 1: find that you know, we want to be successful here.
Speaker 1: This is the guy, the girl, the lady, the man
Speaker 1: that can help us navigate that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you're exactly right.
Speaker 5: So we specialize in the connection and the community, but
Speaker 5: we will readily admit we don't know Africa as well
Speaker 5: as is needed to deliver what we're trying to deliver.
Speaker 4: So partnership is essential.
Speaker 5: And so as John said, we've been doing this and
Speaker 5: integrating ourselves into Africa over the past five and seven years,
Speaker 5: primarily in the space of like helping to decrease the
Speaker 5: unemployment rates which are crazy across the continent. So if
Speaker 5: you're a skilled African Black African, about thirty percent of
Speaker 5: the time you will be unemployed. So these are people
Speaker 5: went to college and did all the right thing, they're unemployed,
Speaker 5: and if you're a black woman, that moves to almost
Speaker 5: seventy percent. So over the past couple years, we've been
Speaker 5: partnering with organizations, specifically three organizations. One called CCI, which
Speaker 5: is the biggest private employer. They do call center services,
Speaker 5: So when you're thinking about how do you employ a
Speaker 5: lot of people at one time, like the call center
Speaker 5: industry is one of those spaces, and we've partnered with CCI. Also,
Speaker 5: another organization called Talent Match, which focuses on people who
Speaker 5: have really high levels of skill like developers, digital marketers, designers,
Speaker 5: and how do you place those people get them jobs?
Speaker 5: And then finally the third organization that really kind of
Speaker 5: helped us out as well as this organization called Endeavor,
Speaker 5: and they're actually building cities.
Speaker 4: Across the cognitive Africa because.
Speaker 5: They have a proposition that you can't bring multicultural or
Speaker 5: multinational organizations into or on the continent because the infrastructure
Speaker 5: is not right, so you need to build from scratch.
Speaker 5: So they actually building these cities and so with those
Speaker 5: three partners, they have feet and boots on the ground.
Speaker 4: Plus they've just been great guides to ensure that we're.
Speaker 5: Connected with the right people and doing the right things
Speaker 5: to set up for success.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting when you said that, I thought
Speaker 1: about a question. I get asked a lot because I
Speaker 1: have three buildings commercial properties and they're in a Censius
Speaker 1: tract that is not great and so but the opportunity
Speaker 1: to build things that are great in this this tract
Speaker 1: is a really great opportunity. And so I'm my question
Speaker 1: is directed at like this the spirit of entrepreneurship where
Speaker 1: you're building in Africa. You know, so you have two
Speaker 1: guys you know, from the United States going and taking
Speaker 1: advantage of an opportunity building something to help people, to
Speaker 1: create connections for them, create opportunities for them in et cetera.
Speaker 1: How do you recognize the spirit of entrepreneur worship as
Speaker 1: pervasive there and the ability to get something started Because
Speaker 1: when you have thirty percent seventy percent unemployment, I imagine I
Speaker 1: got to go start something because nobody's trying to hire me.
Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting and I'll turn it over to John.
Speaker 5: But like entrepreneurship comes out of problem sets oftentimes, and
Speaker 5: when you don't have a lot of opportunity, your whole
Speaker 5: life is a problem set, and so you have to
Speaker 5: create and figure things out. So if you think about
Speaker 5: just the richness of entrepreneurship in Africa on the continent,
Speaker 5: it's inherently already there, and so finding the talent to
Speaker 5: partner with, finding the talent to actually employ there to
Speaker 5: help drive our mission. Having people that have this visionary mindset,
Speaker 5: it's not something you have to teach and just alreadys
Speaker 5: ingrained and who they are just based off of their
Speaker 5: socio economic and personal circumstances.
Speaker 4: So, John, I don't know if you have other pieces
Speaker 4: to add to that.
Speaker 6: No, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more that I think for us, based upon
Speaker 3: kind of the mindset that we kind of moved with,
Speaker 3: it was all aroun driving opportunity. It's this this wealth
Speaker 3: of enthusiasm, this wealth of knowledge, this wealth of talent,
Speaker 3: this wealth of expertise, but just the lack of opportunity.
Speaker 3: And I speaking to like the entrepreneurship point that Mike mentioned,
Speaker 3: there's so many bright minds and so our mission separate
Speaker 3: apart from HQ is how can we drive opportunity, how
Speaker 3: can we drive by engagement and how can we ultimately
Speaker 3: drive impact?
Speaker 1: I want to ask that same question kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: like about DC. Is you have HQ DC House now,
Speaker 1: which I think is fantastic, and.
Speaker 2: I also have a social club.
Speaker 1: I don't know if so, but I'm I'm I'm interested
Speaker 1: in this question of you know, is it important to
Speaker 1: have sort of a missing mission oriented social club, like
Speaker 1: dedicated to helping a community achieve you know, specific things
Speaker 1: or general things even not even specific things, or is
Speaker 1: it the social aspect of having a club to where
Speaker 1: you know, cool people just want to hang out with
Speaker 1: other cool people.
Speaker 2: Is that enough?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a great question. I want Mike to kind
Speaker 6: of jump in here too.
Speaker 3: At our club is unique in the sense it's really
Speaker 3: based upon three core principles, right, So it's a social
Speaker 3: aspect which is really important. But for us, the almost
Speaker 3: more important aspect is a development both personal and professional.
Speaker 3: We think it's important to as people of color that
Speaker 3: we're being developed personally professionally, and so we have cohorts,
Speaker 3: we have workshops, we have classes that really focus on
Speaker 3: that critical piece and we always say why we want
Speaker 3: to create social experience. We want to create a safe space.
Speaker 3: We are really driven by, ultimately, how can we mobilize,
Speaker 3: how can we support, and how can we empower people?
Speaker 3: And so to answer your question, we kind of convey
Speaker 3: to our membership the importance of how can you collectively
Speaker 3: or individually make an impact, whether it be in your
Speaker 3: personal life, your community, or on a global scale. And
Speaker 3: that's kind of mantra that we move with. And so
Speaker 3: it's bigger than the social experiences. It's bigger than the
Speaker 3: cool vibe, it's bigger than the parties.
Speaker 6: It's really this.
Speaker 3: Global community that we're trying to create that really kind
Speaker 3: of convenes black folks around the world, and we can
Speaker 3: kind of speak to that.
Speaker 6: Some more too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, please go in on this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it is actually a really good question, a
Speaker 5: little because I don't know if it's an either or right.
Speaker 5: I think that at the end of the day, whether
Speaker 5: it be a social club or you're making a widget, right,
Speaker 5: you have to have like passion or drive around what
Speaker 5: you're doing. And so John and I just happened to
Speaker 5: have passion and drive about making a change and impact.
Speaker 5: We come from, you know, grandfathers and mothers of like
Speaker 5: the civil rights movement, right, So everything we ever saw
Speaker 5: was people who were put in self second and others
Speaker 5: first in order to drive change in the community. And
Speaker 5: so we just happen to create a product that is
Speaker 5: tied to that. Could we have done it and just
Speaker 5: been a social club and had parties and drinks. I've
Speaker 5: seen that model work as well, but for us, that
Speaker 5: really wasn't the foundation of.
Speaker 4: Why we were doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I love your responses on this, and I
Speaker 1: want to go on a level deeper because when I
Speaker 1: think about, like take Soho House, you know, like they
Speaker 1: don't have to have a mission to galvanize people.
Speaker 2: They could just open a club.
Speaker 1: But like you and so, it's like when we do things,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if that's you know, just in
Speaker 1: here because of our history, but like when we do things,
Speaker 1: they tend to be more mission oriented and mine as
Speaker 1: a mission, like toe House has a mission. Like our job,
Speaker 1: I believe is to organize the community's doers.
Speaker 2: So I have a social club.
Speaker 1: That should probably just tell you a little bit about it,
Speaker 1: because if you don't know, so toe House is a
Speaker 1: private social club, you know it's for the city to well,
Speaker 1: then creative and entrepreneurial class and it's and it's built
Speaker 1: on the waterfront here in my hometown. It's twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand square feet. So we have that social parts, five bars,
Speaker 1: five lounges of coffee house, jazz club, et cetera. But
Speaker 1: what we're doing is organizing the people in the community
Speaker 1: who are doing the work to help our community be
Speaker 1: what it could be if we got out of our
Speaker 1: own way. And so when people hear about where I'm from,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you know, sorry to hear that, or
Speaker 1: you know, there's all the young people want to leave
Speaker 1: when they graduate from high school and all of these things,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, we have really cool stuff here. We
Speaker 1: just got to get the right people in the right
Speaker 1: place to know each other in create that cross pollination
Speaker 1: and et cetera. But then you think about a different
Speaker 1: type of club. Our counterparts they don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: They could just go put a beautiful space and if
Speaker 1: if you want to be in, you in, or maybe
Speaker 1: not in, but you know, because their waiting lists are
Speaker 1: you know, I would love to have that sort of
Speaker 1: waiting list. But they don't have to have the mission
Speaker 1: underpinning the community. So I'm interested in your thoughts on
Speaker 1: at what point or is it important to even aspire
Speaker 1: to just be able to do something just because this
Speaker 1: will be dope?
Speaker 5: Well damn, that's that's really good brother. So this is
Speaker 5: how I interpret it, and I like it just hits
Speaker 5: me right. Could we do it? Absolutely? Would it be successful? Absolutely?
Speaker 5: Where we have like a waiting list like some of
Speaker 5: our competitors. Could I mean it's a tough, but I
Speaker 5: think why why we tend to go towards like the
Speaker 5: impact and the community. I think there's something inherently built
Speaker 5: in us based off our history, that our survival is
Speaker 5: based off community, and also our strength comes from community.
Speaker 5: So I think naturally when we build, I mean think
Speaker 5: about we grew up in the church, we grew up
Speaker 5: in like fraternity and rorities, like everything, especially in the
Speaker 5: Black experience.
Speaker 4: Is very much tied to community.
Speaker 5: So I think we naturally just migrate to it, even
Speaker 5: when we go into entrepreneurial ventures, because that's where we
Speaker 5: find our collective power. So I think we do, and
Speaker 5: we could be just as successful without the community our
Speaker 5: empowerment based aspect. But I think based off of our
Speaker 5: customer base, both you and ours, our we are our
Speaker 5: client and our customer base need the community aspect of it,
Speaker 5: probably more than some of our competitors.
Speaker 1: Yeah you chime in on that, John, No.
Speaker 6: I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3: I really have nothing to add, And I think I
Speaker 3: think it's to Mike's Moore. I think it's kind of
Speaker 3: based on the foundational fabric of who we are as
Speaker 3: people of color, and.
Speaker 6: I think it's heightened.
Speaker 3: By the continual kind of visible political climate that we
Speaker 3: live in in this country. Right we need safe spaces
Speaker 3: to convene and ultimately community to help us mobilize. And
Speaker 3: so I think whether it be your membership club which
Speaker 3: is super dope Maa, so congratulations that sounds incredible, or
Speaker 3: it's ours or others, I think the foundational framework of
Speaker 3: what we do as people of color is mobilized through community.
Speaker 3: You think about every organization from Jack and Jill to
Speaker 3: the links I know Mike mentioned, like the Divine Nine.
Speaker 3: Everything's based upon like how can we convene, how can
Speaker 3: we mobilize to ultimately move our culture forward?
Speaker 6: And so it really begs the question to.
Speaker 3: Your point, when can we get to that point where
Speaker 3: it doesn't always have to be around how can we
Speaker 3: change the narrative.
Speaker 6: How can we move our culture forward?
Speaker 3: How can we just get together and have a good
Speaker 3: time right that doesn't have to be built on some
Speaker 3: other framework.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Do.
Speaker 1: I didn't plan on going this deep on this because
Speaker 1: but I love your responses to this.
Speaker 2: Do do you think about so I have in.
Speaker 1: The other spaces we have like we're building a market,
Speaker 1: And immediately ninety percent of the people I tell that
Speaker 1: I'm building a market, grocery store, etc. They assume that
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to.
Speaker 2: Solve the food crisis issue.
Speaker 1: And I would imagine when one of our less melanated
Speaker 1: part friends may say that they don't get that assumption.
Speaker 1: But when I say I'm going to go build a market,
Speaker 1: people assume I'm going to go try to solve the
Speaker 1: food crisis, food desert issue. And I'm like, I want
Speaker 1: to compete with Whole Foods. I want to compete with
Speaker 1: Trader Joe's. And at what point can we think.
Speaker 2: That way versus always.
Speaker 1: Trying to And again, if you want to do that
Speaker 1: food desert thing, that's I applaud that, and I think
Speaker 1: we should do that. But we also have to see
Speaker 1: people like yourselves building beautiful spaces just because we want
Speaker 1: to enjoy beautiful spaces, and we want to be around
Speaker 1: other people who are like minded in that way that
Speaker 1: they want to enjoy.
Speaker 2: People who enjoy beautiful spaces.
Speaker 5: And know what's so interesting? Right, So when John and I,
Speaker 5: HQ is one of the other, Like, we have multiple
Speaker 5: companies that sent under the Burns Brothers organization. HQ's one
Speaker 5: of them. One of them is like a marketing and
Speaker 5: branding company. And I remember when we first started it
Speaker 5: and we also have an event company. I said John,
Speaker 5: I don't want to be like the best black market, right. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't want this company to like hire us because
Speaker 5: it's African American or Black History Month, and so they're
Speaker 5: looking to run some programs. So then they come to
Speaker 5: us to fill some type of diverse supplier quota. I
Speaker 5: just want them, but they want the best production event company.
Speaker 4: In the world.
Speaker 5: You come to Styles right by the Verns Brothers, not
Speaker 5: because it's black. And so I completely agree with you.
Speaker 5: I think the issue we face, and it goes back
Speaker 5: to like community and all the other stuff, is that
Speaker 5: we don't control the narrative, right, And if you don't
Speaker 5: control the narrative, you're just righting the wave of the narrative.
Speaker 4: You kind of just kind of take it takes you
Speaker 4: where if it wants you to go.
Speaker 5: And so community numbers are so important, the fact that
Speaker 5: we will be the numbers if we connect and we
Speaker 5: have this point of kind of community, then we can
Speaker 5: have the volume to start controlling our own narrative, and
Speaker 5: not just our narrative, but the narrative of the whole ecosystem.
Speaker 5: But right now, I think when you go to that
Speaker 5: food example, is that we don't control the narrative, and
Speaker 5: someone else would created the narrative for us. So that's
Speaker 5: all you could be doing if you're trying to open
Speaker 5: up a marketplace.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as really good.
Speaker 1: So I asked Quintin Harris, Who's I believe you guys
Speaker 1: know Quinton. He's a co founder of CEOI Retrospect there
Speaker 1: in DC. And I asked him to send me a
Speaker 1: couple of questions for you guys. I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: somebody who's experienced your spaces and know the you guys's work.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I wonder what he would ask if he
Speaker 1: was given this opportunity.
Speaker 2: So he sent one.
Speaker 1: He sent two, actually, but this first one he said,
Speaker 1: they have very strong views on black excellence and how
Speaker 1: it restricts inclusivity and collective progress. How are they intentionally
Speaker 1: redefining the meaning of black excellence?
Speaker 6: Mike, you want to take that one. I got to
Speaker 6: think through it. I love that question.
Speaker 3: I love Quentin's a great guy too, So when I
Speaker 3: take it, I can kind of follow up.
Speaker 5: So funny enough, we actually own the trademark to a
Speaker 5: phrase called blaxcellents.
Speaker 4: We have like the domain.
Speaker 5: We're not sharing exactly what we're dealing with it yet,
Speaker 5: but we got to figure it out.
Speaker 4: But it's tied directly to this question, right.
Speaker 5: I think that how we look at black excellence even
Speaker 5: as black people is like very narrow, right, and we
Speaker 5: actually then reinforce and reaffirm that by who we celebrate
Speaker 5: around excellence.
Speaker 4: It's usually athletes, it's usually entertainers.
Speaker 5: I mean, we're on a podcast with a brother who
Speaker 5: is the chairman of the board of.
Speaker 4: The University of Toledo, Like, that's black excellence. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: so how do.
Speaker 5: We tell stories that are stories that are never been told,
Speaker 5: are people who have never been highlighted that actually show
Speaker 5: the whole gambit of.
Speaker 4: What we do as people and how we do it better?
Speaker 4: Than anybody else.
Speaker 5: We grew up, like I said, in the Civil rights
Speaker 5: era where grandfather was part of NAACP, who took place
Speaker 5: in this context when were a.
Speaker 4: Little kid called AXO.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if it was just based out of
Speaker 5: Texas or if it was like a national like kind
Speaker 5: of quiz competition.
Speaker 4: On black history, right.
Speaker 5: And part of what was so nice about AXO is
Speaker 5: that you had to learn how black people kind of
Speaker 5: dominated in all sorts of fields that you would.
Speaker 4: Have never thought about.
Speaker 5: And I thought AXO like define, like this is black excellence, right,
Speaker 5: Like what Carver did with the peanut is black excellence.
Speaker 4: What what happened with Madam C. J. Walker? And here
Speaker 4: that's black excellence.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that Lebron and all these old cats
Speaker 5: aren't black excellence as well. They are, but it's just
Speaker 5: so much bigger. And that's how I personally see it.
Speaker 5: And we need to tell the stories and highlight the
Speaker 5: things that aren't highlighted around what we're capable of and
Speaker 5: what we have done.
Speaker 3: So John, yeah, yeah, And I think Mike kind of
Speaker 3: mentions the depth of the black experience to kind of
Speaker 3: what that looks like, right, And it's very We're not
Speaker 3: monoliss right, So we're very multi dimensional. And I think
Speaker 3: for us, as we try to build commit and especially
Speaker 3: a global community, it's highlighting these stories.
Speaker 6: From around the world what black excellent truly looks like.
Speaker 3: And so I think in the US sometimes we can
Speaker 3: get very specific around just what that concept looks like
Speaker 3: to us, But we are global black people around the world,
Speaker 3: and so to elevate that whole black excellence experience around
Speaker 3: the world is like our mission. And so I love
Speaker 3: that question because I really speaks to the opportunity that exists.
Speaker 3: Like what if we could highlight the young cat and
Speaker 3: a village outside of a crap what he's doing right?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Stuff like that is so dope to me because I
Speaker 3: think it not only educates us as black people around
Speaker 3: the multi dimensions of the black experience, but also really
Speaker 3: heightens what black excellence truly is.
Speaker 1: So I'm an entrepreneur like yourself, with several businesses like yourselves,
Speaker 1: and there's this idea that some people will advise me,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you've heard before, like you know, you
Speaker 1: should focus like on one like you should focus on
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 2: Thing, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And I've heard it say like a fist is a
Speaker 1: lot stronger than five fingers separated.
Speaker 2: Like if you took all.
Speaker 1: Your energy and you balled it up into one fist,
Speaker 1: you could make a bigger impact. And so I'm my
Speaker 1: question is like, how do you manage not just at
Speaker 1: a high level, but actually in the trenches, in function
Speaker 1: several businesses in such different categories and find success?
Speaker 2: Like how do you guys do that?
Speaker 3: The might have been on our team meeting this morning,
Speaker 3: meeting this morning, man, we spent three hours.
Speaker 6: Talking about the exact topics.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, yeah, because I think it's interesting, right, because
Speaker 5: the whole fist analogy is interesting, right, But at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, the fist is still five separate fingers, right, Like,
Speaker 5: and if you figure out how those five fingers, which
Speaker 5: might be five different businesses, how they're still connected to
Speaker 5: a common theme, a common purpose, then it works.
Speaker 4: It's actually more impactful. So if you look at all
Speaker 4: of our.
Speaker 5: Businesses, they may be on the surface seem very different,
Speaker 5: Like you got a membership house, but you also have
Speaker 5: a marketing company, and you have a diversity company, but you.
Speaker 4: Also have a wellness and performance organization.
Speaker 5: That is true, but all of them have the strand
Speaker 5: of delivering understanding that ultimately leads to change through different mechanisms,
Speaker 5: and no mechanism by itself is effective.
Speaker 4: Of all the mechanisms working together, and so.
Speaker 5: The day to day becomes not necessarily complicated, but it's
Speaker 5: manageable because everybody understands how they fit into the bigger picture,
Speaker 5: even if they operate or tied to a different organization.
Speaker 5: So communication, explanation and really helping people understand those points
Speaker 5: of connectivity is really important.
Speaker 3: And then well just team, I mean having an incredible team, right,
Speaker 3: So I think everything foundationally goes back to team and
Speaker 3: the culture of the organization that really supports people to
Speaker 3: obviously be critical thinkers, to have grit, have integrity, have
Speaker 3: a selfless work ethic, but ultimately being aligned with the
Speaker 3: bigger mission around driving impact and mobilizing community, because I
Speaker 3: think everything we do again to Mike's point, well it
Speaker 3: might have a different deliverable from like a business offering standpoint,
Speaker 3: it's really aligned with the overall mission of the larger organization.
Speaker 1: And so we talk a lot about access to capital,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you guys talk about also, you know,
Speaker 1: and then having businesses in such diverse categories and like
Speaker 1: to your point, might they do intersect maybe not on
Speaker 1: the surface, but underneath. I imagine that might still make it
Speaker 1: more difficult or complex to attract outside the capital. And
Speaker 1: I don't know what your stack is, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have outside capital, but like, how how
Speaker 1: are you able to tell that story to potential investors
Speaker 1: if they're like, I know you guys are doing this.
Speaker 1: I'm interested in investing in this social club, but you
Speaker 1: also got this DEI thing over here, and you also
Speaker 1: got this brand. You know, how do you tell that story?
Speaker 6: Can you tell it?
Speaker 3: You tell it based upon kind of really helping them
Speaker 3: understand the journey of these businesses and how they ultimately
Speaker 3: became to form, and they were coming to being based
Speaker 3: upon addressing like a critical need and a gap that
Speaker 3: exists within kind of the work and the functions that
Speaker 3: we were operating in. So nothing was willy nilly, And
Speaker 3: once we explain like the level of alignment across all
Speaker 3: of our business functions and kind of that red thread,
Speaker 3: it actually makes us more attractive. Right, So, for instance,
Speaker 3: if I'm a private membership club that needs to do marketing,
Speaker 3: I don't want to hire X Y and z marketing company.
Speaker 3: If I can hire a familiar entity, right, so that
Speaker 3: makes us more attractive, and by a private membership club
Speaker 3: that does private events. That's the bulk of our kind
Speaker 3: of revenue model in addition to obviously the membership model.
Speaker 3: I don't want to hire a event production company or
Speaker 3: planning company. I want to hire an entity that actually
Speaker 3: exists within the ecosystem. If I do a lot from
Speaker 3: like a programmatic standpoint for our members around DEE and I,
Speaker 3: around inclusive learning, around bias training, around all those things.
Speaker 6: I don't want to hire a random vendor.
Speaker 3: I want to hire So everything makes because it's all
Speaker 3: a shared experience and a model that really is a
Speaker 3: line and synergistic across everything.
Speaker 6: So from our ganage point.
Speaker 4: It makes us.
Speaker 3: It gives us a competitive advantage that other organizations wouldn't
Speaker 3: have that are just this, are just this because we
Speaker 3: bring all these superpowers together.
Speaker 6: That ultimately supports it helps the whole Well, will.
Speaker 4: You get it right?
Speaker 5: It's like a brother that's run like multiple organizations. Like
Speaker 5: it's taking us a while to get that narrative type
Speaker 5: right because it's so every like there's so many one
Speaker 5: trick ponies out there like everyone just does this and
Speaker 5: once again that's cool too, write like not no shade
Speaker 5: on anybody, right, Like some people just dominate in one
Speaker 5: space and like move forward and that's awesome. But because
Speaker 5: that's a traditional model and folks like us think differently,
Speaker 5: it's hard when you go to like a VC or
Speaker 5: an investor and they're like, well, you know, I've used
Speaker 5: to like this like one dimensional track, Like I really
Speaker 5: don't get it. And so we're not saying now that
Speaker 5: everyone has gotten it, and we haven't even really we've
Speaker 5: been blessed to take like one business has been successful
Speaker 5: and then we've taken the capital and the revenue that
Speaker 5: that business makes to invest in the other businesses, and
Speaker 5: so we haven't actually had to go and get capital.
Speaker 5: But at the same point in time, there will be
Speaker 5: a point in time, but we really.
Speaker 4: Want to scale this to hit the vision that we're
Speaker 4: looking to hit.
Speaker 5: Bootstrap it is probably not the way to continue to
Speaker 5: grow it to where it needs to grow. But now
Speaker 5: that we have this narrative tot tighter, I think it
Speaker 5: will be easier. But we still recognize that not everyone's
Speaker 5: going to still get it.
Speaker 1: Who we go to, Yeah, we guys, we have so
Speaker 1: much in comment we should really talk more after this,
Speaker 1: but so I've got a couple more.
Speaker 2: For you guys.
Speaker 1: But you know, given the notable individuals who you guys
Speaker 1: have had and have as members in HQDC house, like,
Speaker 1: how do you leverage these connections to foster, you know,
Speaker 1: collaboration opportunities for other black entrepreneurs within you in the network.
Speaker 3: I think it's just open lines of communication, right, and
Speaker 3: so we never approach members asking them to do as favors.
Speaker 3: It's more of them willing to use and leverage their
Speaker 3: network to ultimately support the community. And so it's really
Speaker 3: just being in community with people and ultimately understanding where
Speaker 3: the community is going, the community needs and how we
Speaker 3: can collectively grow better, enhance the experiences. And I think
Speaker 3: people and we've been so I mean, in our wildest dreams,
Speaker 3: we never would have could perceive the impact it's actually
Speaker 3: making in people's lives. People are becoming best friends, people
Speaker 3: are doing business relationships, people are dating. But also people
Speaker 3: are creating an impact and like doing things to better
Speaker 3: themselves and better their communities, which I think is the
Speaker 3: most rewarding thing. And so for us, people are volunteering
Speaker 3: of their time and of their networks to support the
Speaker 3: community that we're building.
Speaker 6: And so I think for us that's just incredibly special.
Speaker 5: And what we had said when we started the house,
Speaker 5: we're like, okay, like our membership base is going to
Speaker 5: be different than certain of their competitors, right, Like people
Speaker 5: who we want to bring in are people are going
Speaker 5: to be pretty established in their career. They're usually like
Speaker 5: the onlies in the room. They have senior level of positions.
Speaker 5: But more importantly, they re walk into a traditional club
Speaker 5: or a house or an event, they're using the people
Speaker 5: that people are coming up to and saying, Oh, can
Speaker 5: I get your business card? Or can you introduce me
Speaker 5: to so and so and so when they walk into
Speaker 5: the room, there's no real value they receive, right, they
Speaker 5: give a lot of value, but they don't really receive
Speaker 5: a lot of value. So we say we want to
Speaker 5: create a house to where there's always mutual value exchange.
Speaker 5: That you have to be able to give as much
Speaker 5: value as you're asking to receive, and we instill that
Speaker 5: and communicating that at the very beginning of the interview process.
Speaker 5: And if you're not able to provide real value, then
Speaker 5: and you're just looking to receive value, then you don't
Speaker 5: even make it past like the screening process. And because
Speaker 5: we set expectations early, then when you get into the house,
Speaker 5: it becomes, like John said, are very organic people just
Speaker 5: supporting a matter of their title.
Speaker 4: Role, who they work for, what they do, and it
Speaker 4: works out.
Speaker 3: Add to that too, to Mike's point, and I to
Speaker 3: Mike's point where I think it's so again pretty amazing
Speaker 3: with HQ, the model that has kind of been created is,
Speaker 3: with the exception of CBC and DC, I've actually never
Speaker 3: seen anybody hand out a business card in HQ. It's
Speaker 3: really built on like authentic relationships. And I don't know
Speaker 3: well how much Son he's been in Washington. DC is
Speaker 3: the capital business.
Speaker 6: Transaction, I imagine, right.
Speaker 3: And so I think especially you know, with our in
Speaker 3: our community, and so I think it was such a
Speaker 3: kind of a treat for us to see that people
Speaker 3: actually forming authentic relationships and not just looking for a
Speaker 3: transactional relationship.
Speaker 1: And so in the several people I've talked to recently,
Speaker 1: even who I have more entrepreneurial endeavors that are not
Speaker 1: like VC back door, et cetera. We've talked about staffing
Speaker 1: and how challenging that is specifically in post COVID days
Speaker 1: and especially with a marketing company like you have. You know,
Speaker 1: the freelancer movement is huge. And then you talk about
Speaker 1: hospitality where COVID change that landscape where you know it's
Speaker 1: hard to put people in kitchens.
Speaker 2: And server staff hosts, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Like how do you navigate those challenges such that your
Speaker 1: business isn't throttled for lack of talent personnel.
Speaker 5: We're still figuring it out, brother, like real talk. This
Speaker 5: is like conversations every single day because what we've so
Speaker 5: luckily a lot of the businesses you have the ability
Speaker 5: to cross train and other people can cover down on
Speaker 5: people's jobs. Membership clubs are not that right, like like
Speaker 5: if you get this right, so you got to have
Speaker 5: someone at the concierge desk, and if that furs it
Speaker 5: isn't there. It's not like you can just call up
Speaker 5: Mike and Pennsylvania and be like, yo, can you cover
Speaker 5: down on this? And so we're still working through how
Speaker 5: do you manage like the cost of people and so
Speaker 5: not overstaff, but not get yourself in like a position
Speaker 5: to where all you have is like one person filling
Speaker 5: a role because not only does that put you in
Speaker 5: a point of stress around you know, what if they
Speaker 5: don't show up, but it also puts you in a
Speaker 5: point of stress what if they don't perform Right now
Speaker 5: you're like stuck with someone who's outperforming because you don't
Speaker 5: have another like backup, uh to replace them with. So
Speaker 5: there's all sorts of conundrums that come with like staffing.
Speaker 5: But like I said, we're still figuring this out. We're
Speaker 5: still uh kind of exploring and young here and and
Speaker 5: any of my shot.
Speaker 2: To Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: I mean it's the hardest thing, you know, and I
Speaker 1: recognize and it sounds like.
Speaker 2: You guys did this position.
Speaker 1: Also, you could be doing more business if you had
Speaker 1: more people, And that's the hardest part, Like if you
Speaker 1: could find more good people.
Speaker 2: This this the.
Speaker 1: Hard part is not selling, Like the opportunity is there,
Speaker 1: it's just the people to support the opportunity. That's that's
Speaker 1: when it's really hard, hurtful.
Speaker 6: Yeah, bro, well you could.
Speaker 3: I mean, like some positions we've been like interviewing for
Speaker 3: like four months. I mean it's like, but you're exactly right,
Speaker 3: and that's like the challenge because the opport teams exist.
Speaker 3: But you can't support the opportunities because you just don't
Speaker 3: have the people to feel the jobs. But yeah, it's
Speaker 3: definitely a daily challenge for.
Speaker 1: Us along that thread, I imagine, because you know, again
Speaker 1: I feel so much similarity with you guys. I imagine
Speaker 1: some of the ideas and companies you started, you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately just don't work out, because this is the nature
Speaker 1: to be, Like, how do you set expectations on what
Speaker 1: success looks like or should look like at various stages
Speaker 1: to ensure your efforts are going into something that's worthwhile.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you know, full transparency, I call myself a
Speaker 5: serial entrepreneur, right, I've been like doing this entrepreneurship game
Speaker 5: for like a long time, and I have had way
Speaker 5: more failures than success as a matter of fact, Like
Speaker 5: obviously the Burns Brothers just the biggest success, and it's
Speaker 5: because I managed to partner with someone who I know
Speaker 5: has a work ethic as high as I do. Right,
Speaker 5: I think you can probably attest will oftentimes in the
Speaker 5: space of entrepreneurship, but like one person who's the horse,
Speaker 5: the other person's the carriage, right, and they just feel
Speaker 5: like you're just pulling one partner that doesn't ever work.
Speaker 5: But the other problem you have in entrepreneurship, which we
Speaker 5: faced before, is that there are certain things that.
Speaker 4: Seem sexy, like tech is sexy. Acts are tech sexy.
Speaker 5: So people want to jump into things that they don't
Speaker 5: have the subject matter expertise in. Right, Like John and
Speaker 5: I know people we're passionate about, you know, change and
Speaker 5: impact for people of color. We're able to mobilize community.
Speaker 5: So what we do inside of HQ and the other businesses,
Speaker 5: it was a natural fit.
Speaker 4: So it works.
Speaker 5: Some of the other experiences that I have, Like at
Speaker 5: some point in time, you just know that is not
Speaker 5: working right, whether it be like man, I can't continue
Speaker 5: to take out my savings like type of.
Speaker 4: No are are are that you know?
Speaker 5: Like just I've had to reposition the value proposition twenty
Speaker 5: times because it isn't sticking.
Speaker 4: Like whatever that reason is. It appears differently for different organizations.
Speaker 5: But I think that everyone deep down inside they have
Speaker 5: to admit to themselves, but they kind of just know
Speaker 5: that it's time to move on and jettison what they
Speaker 5: were doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then well too, even under the Burns brothers,
Speaker 3: I mean we've tried things. I mean, my brother and
Speaker 3: I have been serial entrepreneurs in the sense, but also
Speaker 3: even with on the Burns where there's umbrella, we are
Speaker 3: constant dreamers, right, and so sometimes it takes like team
Speaker 3: members like our chief of staff and our CEO to
Speaker 3: be like, hey, fellas, dreaming is good, but we also
Speaker 3: have to make sure we're actually delivering on the businesses
Speaker 3: that we.
Speaker 6: Have, right.
Speaker 3: So it's also ensuring that you have those checks and
Speaker 3: balances internally, because I think big dreamers dream big, right,
Speaker 3: but you also have to be practical around what can
Speaker 3: be actually achieved, and so having those folks within the
Speaker 3: organization that can level set things too. And then also
Speaker 3: to not putting too much in your play. And I
Speaker 3: know we talked about the fifth and the five finger analogy,
Speaker 3: but I think there's also a value in really drilling
Speaker 3: down into organizations and not spreading yourself too wide. So
Speaker 3: as in totality of our organization, we're really focused on
Speaker 3: kind of drilling down into organizations more as opposed to
Speaker 3: spreading ourselves too fit. And so we recognize that and
Speaker 3: we've been very intentional about how we can do that,
Speaker 3: how do we approach that, and how do we be
Speaker 3: successful with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike, you mentioned tech, and I think about I'm
Speaker 1: always interested, like when I see people's you know, the
Speaker 1: desktop of their phone, like what apps they have on
Speaker 1: I'm just always curious and like what apps people are using.
Speaker 1: And so I'm curious in how you guys, what you
Speaker 1: guys use for people out there looking for systems and
Speaker 1: technology to help them be more efficient, Like what do
Speaker 1: you guys use tactically technically to be more efficient? Like
Speaker 1: some of the things that you know are invaluable to
Speaker 1: me are like Slack, Like my whole team, well on
Speaker 1: both of my teams are on Slack and so we
Speaker 1: are always having these conversations. Fresh Desk is one that
Speaker 1: we use to you know, so if a member has
Speaker 1: an issue, that can submit it and it's not going
Speaker 1: to get lost because we can all see that this
Speaker 1: person's in the need.
Speaker 2: Nelly, So can you talk.
Speaker 1: About some of the things that you've used in your
Speaker 1: lives to make sure technical things that you've used to
Speaker 1: ensure that you're as efficient as possible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're definitely were not necessarily a Slack org. We
Speaker 5: use a lot of Microsoft teams and we build all
Speaker 5: sorts of team channels that we communicate.
Speaker 4: With each other.
Speaker 5: On we've really started to adopt the platform, we're still
Speaker 5: testing it out called Copilot. So when you're looking at
Speaker 5: like outreach and how do you integrate your linked in
Speaker 5: with this kind of AI and kind of technology driven
Speaker 5: kind of outreach platform, so from a BD standpoint, so
Speaker 5: leveraging that from like a CRM standpoint, because we know
Speaker 5: how important it is to have the processes inside of
Speaker 5: the pipeline. We use an organization or a technology called
Speaker 5: pipe Drive to help manage all of that and all
Speaker 5: of our automated communications and things like that. And then
Speaker 5: when we're thinking just around like the membership experience we
Speaker 5: currently u it was a platform called people Line which
Speaker 5: we're able to build our membership apps through and things
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 4: But we're also as we're expanding.
Speaker 5: The community and what we do, we're looking at other
Speaker 5: platforms as well that have more like a community engagement
Speaker 5: interaction model, which we look to roll out here and
Speaker 5: leverage in the next month or few.
Speaker 4: So those are One.
Speaker 3: Other piece that Mike mentioned too is like our project
Speaker 3: management tool right has been you know, an essential and
Speaker 3: critical piece to like obviously from a project management standpoint.
Speaker 6: It's been since us since with us since we first launched,
Speaker 6: you know, a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a great tool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we use a signa on that side for the
Speaker 1: project management just seeing our stuff, and I've tried different
Speaker 1: ones I tried. I think it was base Camp we
Speaker 1: were using for a long time, and base Camp will
Speaker 1: tell you, like we know you guys, ask some more features,
Speaker 1: We're not going to build more features. And so at
Speaker 1: some point we needed more features than base Camp even
Speaker 1: said that they.
Speaker 2: Were going to do. So we had to graduate, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm because I'm sure there's many more out there,
Speaker 1: but those have been in my journey.
Speaker 2: Also.
Speaker 1: Now one more from Quinton. He said family is family,
Speaker 1: and working with family, let alone siblings, can be a
Speaker 1: difficult task. What is your dynamic as family entrepreneurs? How
Speaker 1: do you make space for each other's individual brilliance?
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think Mike and I definitely are stose siblings, right,
Speaker 3: We're only two siblings in our family, right, so it's
Speaker 3: he's my big brothers So Mike definitely can big brother
Speaker 3: me sometimes. So I definitely understand that dynamic. But I
Speaker 3: think we also recognize kind of the brilliance that we
Speaker 3: each kind of collectively bring and there's a level of
Speaker 3: respect that we have for each other, and there's a
Speaker 3: level of respect that we.
Speaker 6: Kind of convey to the team as well.
Speaker 3: But as you kind of go on this journey with
Speaker 3: your sibling, you ultimately realize kind of their talents, right,
Speaker 3: and you want them to really lean into their talents.
Speaker 6: And I think over.
Speaker 3: The last couple of years, we've been really great with
Speaker 3: letting the person with that talent be kind of leading
Speaker 3: that level, leading that area of expertise, and kind of
Speaker 3: take the step back with respect to other areas that
Speaker 3: the other person might have kind of more expertise in.
Speaker 3: So I think it's just learning someone, just like you
Speaker 3: learn anybody in any relationship, and then ultimately kind of
Speaker 3: navigating through those kind of hurdles to ultimately kind of
Speaker 3: get to the finished point that where it's more more
Speaker 3: of a well oiled machine.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I think if you like, use like a sports
Speaker 5: team analogy, right, Like the great teams have great players,
Speaker 5: but what makes them really great is they know I'm
Speaker 5: going to throw the ball and I know exactly where
Speaker 5: that receiver is going to be because I've been playing
Speaker 5: with them for so long.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it just it just happens.
Speaker 5: And so when you have a sibling and there's only
Speaker 5: two of you, right, like we're the only people, the
Speaker 5: only kids of our mother and father. Like you spend
Speaker 5: your whole time together. Your whole life is together. So
Speaker 5: I know how John thinks. I know where John's going
Speaker 5: to be on the field, and I know what value
Speaker 5: John brings to the table. And so John is a
Speaker 5: very empathetic human being. I'm a very like like human right,
Speaker 5: And so you need both of those because you can't
Speaker 5: be always X, Y and Z and just give me
Speaker 5: the bottom line up front. Sometimes you got to like
Speaker 5: feel and be there for the people. And so John
Speaker 5: and I play about those parts. John is very much
Speaker 5: a visionary. He's like a creative and he sees the
Speaker 5: ten thousand foot view. I'm very much an operator, right,
Speaker 5: I operatedt like five hundred feet, and so us being
Speaker 5: patient with each other and understanding that I can't get
Speaker 5: frustrated when he's at one thousand feet and he can't
Speaker 5: get frustrated with me when I'm like, hey, we got
Speaker 5: to figure out how we're going to execute and get
Speaker 5: this done and understand all the dots. And I think
Speaker 5: that we wouldn't effectively be able to make those connections
Speaker 5: if we didn't have the relationship of being brothers and
Speaker 5: spending our whole life together.
Speaker 1: So, in closing, talk to me about twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: and twenty like.
Speaker 2: What are you excited about.
Speaker 1: Over the next year. We're ended in the first quarter. Now,
Speaker 1: what are you excited about over the next you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of future?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and that's a great question. And we're excited
Speaker 3: about a couple things. And I think the most thing,
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that I could say collectively or excited about,
Speaker 3: we're actually launching what we're calling the HQ.
Speaker 6: House Global Network, where our.
Speaker 3: Goal is to convene to build community with one million
Speaker 3: Black professionals around the globe by twenty twenty six. Right,
Speaker 3: we want to be this global convenor of black people
Speaker 3: around the globe. And so later this year, we're launching
Speaker 3: this concept in ten cities globally and more to come
Speaker 3: around what those cities are and kind of what that
Speaker 3: community looks like. But we really believe in going back
Speaker 3: to Mike's point, to really have true influence, that true power,
Speaker 3: you have to be in community with people not just
Speaker 3: in this country but around the globe and that leads
Speaker 3: you to be able to influence policy, influence business, influence
Speaker 3: legislation because there's power in numbers. And so how can
Speaker 3: we no longer think just domestically because now we know
Speaker 3: Africa is going to have such an influence from like
Speaker 3: a population standpoint in the next decade, How can we
Speaker 3: now I think globally around mobilizing people, community convening people,
Speaker 3: providing people with development opportunities, but also providing people with
Speaker 3: social experiences. And so we're super excited to launch the
Speaker 3: HQ House Global Network, which will be that convenient platform.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the only thing I would add to what
Speaker 5: John says that I'm excited about is the ability to
Speaker 5: like help change.
Speaker 4: Mindsets of individuals. Right.
Speaker 5: I'm a big believer that the biggest muscle that we
Speaker 5: have is our brain, but also the biggest anchor that we.
Speaker 4: Have is our brain.
Speaker 5: Right, and if we can do anything over the next year,
Speaker 5: and we're doing a lot of development stuff inside of
Speaker 5: the HQ ecosystem as well, like to help people unlock
Speaker 5: the anchor that's holding them down because they start to
Speaker 5: realize that unconsciously they were doing things that they were
Speaker 5: accepting things like if we can start touching those lives
Speaker 5: and shipping away to create that freedom because we're opening
Speaker 5: that mind. To me, that becomes a huge opportunity into
Speaker 5: the mention of the connectivity to drive change.
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in iHeart Media.
Speaker 1: It's produced by Morgan Devonne and me Well Lucas, with
Speaker 1: additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Lovebeach. Special thinking
Speaker 1: to Michael Davison, Ky McDonald. Learn more about my guests
Speaker 1: the other tech disruptors and innovators at afrotech dot com.
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