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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us

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Speaker 1: Live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And it sure feels like deja vu. Today we're sitting

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Speaker 2: in Washington, DC around two o'clock in the afternoon waiting

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Speaker 2: for something to happen at the federal court involving Donald Trump. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but I guess that'll kind of be the next year

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Speaker 2: for us or.

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Speaker 3: Even beyond, depending on how much his defense can delay

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Speaker 3: the proceedings.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so it's all about the protective order. Yes, today,

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Speaker 2: Remember that thing he posted on truth Social on Friday

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Speaker 2: was that the whole point of this is that all

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Speaker 2: or is it just a composite of everything he has

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Speaker 2: said publicly about his legal actions.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps that the idea that this is a former president

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Speaker 3: who is very vocal, Yeah, very present on social media

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Speaker 3: like True Social, specifically over the weekend. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 3: every twenty minutes, the.

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Speaker 2: New truth, the big one. If you go after me,

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Speaker 2: I'm coming after you. All caps, very simple and with punctuation,

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Speaker 2: by the way, But it's not just what he's writing.

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Speaker 2: It's what he's saying, right, I mean this right South Carolina,

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Speaker 2: just a little more than twenty four hours ago. Now

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Speaker 2: imagine you know Jack Smith, the Special Council, he's talking

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Speaker 2: about the case and the prosecutor.

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Speaker 4: Here we go to sham indictment and you know, the

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Speaker 4: man that's doing I really believe he's mentally ill, but

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Speaker 4: this these are outrageous and it is an outrageous criminalization

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Speaker 4: of political speech.

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Speaker 2: I'll just stop it right there. A sham indictment. Now

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Speaker 2: he's been doing this is you know, consulting the Special

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Speaker 2: councilor first time we've heard that he had mental illness.

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Speaker 3: Well, he keeps calling him deranged Jack Smith, So maybe

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Speaker 3: he sees those as synonymous, right, And.

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Speaker 2: He's implying also always that he changed his name from something.

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Speaker 2: I'm still I really would like to know what he

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Speaker 2: thinks that is. And then the full Ginsburg by the

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Speaker 2: lawyers on Sunday morning. That's different. The lawyers can say

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Speaker 2: what they're going to say. They're not going to talk

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Speaker 2: about evidence in the way that he does. And so

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Speaker 2: we'll find out what three hours from now, maybe beforehand,

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Speaker 2: they have until five pm Washington time to.

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Speaker 3: Respond, Yeah, and I guess we'll see if they meet

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Speaker 3: that deadline, because, as you said, mister Laura on the

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Speaker 3: Sunday shows didn't seem inclined to suggest that they were

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Speaker 3: going to go along with this protective order. To come

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Speaker 3: back to what the former presidents saying, it kind of

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Speaker 3: comes back to the case they're making about this indictment

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Speaker 3: here in Washington broadly that this is about free speech,

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Speaker 3: the first Memory case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and then we've got Fulton County, right, that could

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Speaker 2: truly be any day. All we got from the prosecutor

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Speaker 2: there was before the first of September. Yes, but we

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Speaker 2: know they're working something up and there's frankly a lot

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Speaker 2: of talk that it could be imminent. Let me, I'll

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Speaker 2: put it to you this way. Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric

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Speaker 2: Larson is joining us from Georgia right now. Eric, I

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Speaker 2: hope you're getting something good to eat. It's great to

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Speaker 2: have you back into this thing.

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Speaker 5: Going to drive well, you know, we of course were

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Speaker 5: prepared for it to come as soon as this morning.

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Speaker 5: There had been some rumblings in the local press here

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Speaker 5: that that might be in the works, you know, based

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Speaker 5: on some big security measures that the Fulton County Courthouse

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Speaker 5: had taken starting today, and also just the timeline of

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Speaker 5: these two grand juries that sort of meet regularly during

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Speaker 5: this week. So nothing has happened, obviously, but I did

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Speaker 5: go down to the courthouse saw that, you know, there

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Speaker 5: was a lot of police presence, Bolton County Sheriff's vehicles

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Speaker 5: blocking the road in front of the courthouse, lots of

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Speaker 5: barricades set up all around on the streets, lots of

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Speaker 5: TV bans, that sort of thing. So it's kind of

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Speaker 5: a familiar thing that we've seen before, you know, first

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Speaker 5: in Manhattan and then in Florida, and then again in

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Speaker 5: Washington and now here.

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Speaker 3: It's like deja vous all over again. Eric, we just

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Speaker 3: seemed to be constantly in braced mode waiting for another

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Speaker 3: indictment to drop.

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Speaker 1: Though.

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Speaker 3: I think we expect this to be the last one,

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Speaker 3: at least that we're aware of for the time being,

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Speaker 3: number four, and that would be it, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, correct, that's that's our count that you never

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Speaker 5: know what could happen in the future.

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Speaker 6: We do know that there are some there's still a

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Speaker 6: grand jury in DC.

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Speaker 5: We know that in those classified documents case in Florida,

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Speaker 5: the government of course, the Jacksmith. There was a superseding

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Speaker 5: indictment in that case that added its more claim. So

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Speaker 5: you know, you never know what could happen. But yes,

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Speaker 5: we're expecting this to be the fourth and finally, well, and.

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Speaker 3: You referenced what happened here in Washington just last week. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it was literally just days ago that the former president

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Speaker 3: was arraigned once again. But both of these cases in

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Speaker 3: Washington and then in Fulton County involved trying to interfere

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Speaker 3: with the twenty twenty election and the transition of power.

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Speaker 3: How is the Georgia case specifically difficult different as a

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Speaker 3: state case versus the federal one. How are they likely

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Speaker 3: to diverge potentially, Well.

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Speaker 5: They're going to be prosecuting, you know, if this does come,

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Speaker 5: there will be prosecuting a very similar but different set

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Speaker 5: of you know, state laws, state election laws, and you know,

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Speaker 5: experts have said that every state has some sort of

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Speaker 5: election fraud law.

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Speaker 6: And Georgia is.

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Speaker 5: Going to potentially claim that Trump's efforts to persuade Georgia

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Speaker 5: election official elected officials to overturn the election, and also

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Speaker 5: efforts by his allies to convince state lawmakers that there

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Speaker 5: had been brought by giving information that potentially just wasn't true.

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Speaker 5: And of course the fake electors, or as they call them,

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Speaker 5: the alternate slates of electors. We saw in the DC

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Speaker 5: case how that was used to elect broad against the

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Speaker 5: United States, and Georgia could do something similar here. They

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Speaker 5: had a similar slate of electors here, but we know

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Speaker 5: that a lot of them have been involved in this investigation,

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Speaker 5: so we're going to see some very similar I would

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Speaker 5: think if there is an indictment here, I think it

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Speaker 5: would it would overlap a lot in its language and

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Speaker 5: allegations with with what we saw in DC, which was

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Speaker 5: just alleging a completely illegal and improper attempt to overturn

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Speaker 5: the votes of millions of people who had voted for

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden and not for Trump.

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Speaker 2: Well, Eric, just to get back to the matter at

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Speaker 2: hand today here in Washington, this protective order. What different

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Speaker 2: paths could this take? Obviously the Trump team wanted a

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Speaker 2: delay that was rejected over the weekend. If they reject

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Speaker 2: this or or push back on this today, then then

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Speaker 2: what next? How does that work procedurally?

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean it's really depends on how aggressive I

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Speaker 5: think the judge would want to be and in terms

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Speaker 5: of how hard. Trump's legal team would press for appeals,

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Speaker 5: Say the protective order is issued, you know, they might

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Speaker 5: try to appeal that, and you know, they'll probably try

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Speaker 5: to appeal a lot a lot of things this case progressive.

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Speaker 5: As you were saying earlier, there's some delay issues involunteer

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Speaker 5: delay tactics. What could say, so you know, Trump is

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Speaker 5: not doesn't seem to be helping himself with all these

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Speaker 5: these truths, you know, saying that outright. One of the

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Speaker 5: things he said on social media over the weekend was

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Speaker 5: that he wanted a federal takeover of Washington, and he

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Speaker 5: knew that that would not be very popular with potential jurors.

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Speaker 6: So it's almost like he's begging the judge.

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Speaker 5: To, uh, you know, consider him to be a threat

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Speaker 5: to the jury tool, which is very strange but also

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Speaker 5: very trump. So just I'm very curious to see what

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Speaker 5: the judge will will say this and she'll just kind

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Speaker 5: of brush it off and be like no, sorry, or.

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Speaker 6: If she's going to.

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Speaker 5: You know, give like to give his his arguments a

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Speaker 5: day in court.

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Speaker 6: Really honestly could go out of the way.

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Speaker 2: All right, Eric, thanks for coming back. Are you there

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Speaker 2: till this happens or maybe we shouldn't talk about that

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Speaker 2: on the air. That's question you'd like to know it too,

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Speaker 2: Eric Larson, Bloomberg Legal reporter, We'll find you wherever we are.

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Speaker 2: He does such a great job leading our coverage on this, Kayley,

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Speaker 2: And we want to add the voice of Jimmy Garoli,

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Speaker 2: law professor at Notre Dame and former assistant US Attorney

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Speaker 2: in the Central District of California. Jimmy, it's great to

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Speaker 2: have you here. What happens with this protective order? What

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Speaker 2: should happen is a better way to ask it?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think the first of all, we need to

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Speaker 7: make sure that that the listeners understand the purpose of

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Speaker 7: the protective order. Yes, and so the Special Council is

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Speaker 7: seeking a protective order that would prevent President Trump from

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Speaker 7: disclosing on true social his social media platform evidence in

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Speaker 7: the case, for example, witness statements, maybe tran scripts of

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Speaker 7: witnesses that testified before the grand jury in the case,

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Speaker 7: and the disclosure of which could have a chilling effect,

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Speaker 7: maybe an intimidating effect on those particular witnesses and other

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Speaker 7: witnesses as well. And so again, the prosecutor is is

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Speaker 7: requesting that Trump be directed and prohibited from disclosing that

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Speaker 7: type of evidence and information on a public platform.

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Speaker 2: Just to be clear though, and just so our listeners understand,

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Speaker 2: this would go for not just truth social but any

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Speaker 2: form of public speak, right, including the stuff okay.

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Speaker 7: Exactly exactly, And so the harm would be the same

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Speaker 7: regardless of which platform or which media device or mechanism

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Speaker 7: was used to disclose it. And so again there's this

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Speaker 7: concern about evidence that's going to be presented a trial

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Speaker 7: being presented to the public, and then that have being

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Speaker 7: a deterrent, chilling effect on witnesses that may be testifying

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Speaker 7: in the case.

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Speaker 3: Well, Jimmy, if you listen to the former president, he

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Speaker 3: says a protective order would infringe on his free speech

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Speaker 3: and his attorneys. Over the weekend on all the Sunday shows,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about free speech First Amendment rights as being

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Speaker 3: a key issue here. I mean, John Laura on CNN,

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Speaker 3: I believe Joe was talking about how the request that

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Speaker 3: Trump was making weren't actually requests, they were asks, the

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Speaker 3: aspirational asks, and asking is aspirational.

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Speaker 7: Well, I mean that's not what the that's not what's

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Speaker 7: alleged in the indictment.

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Speaker 6: Of course, so you.

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Speaker 3: Don't think this kind of First Amendment argument would be

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Speaker 3: one that's.

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Speaker 8: Ultimately going to hold on.

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Speaker 7: Well, we need to make an important distinction between protective

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Speaker 7: free speech and conduct. And so certainly former President Trump

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Speaker 7: or anyone has a protected constitutional right to make statements,

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Speaker 7: even if the statements are false, and even if the

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Speaker 7: statements are knowingly false when they're made. But it's different

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Speaker 7: when you say, for example, I believe that the election

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Speaker 7: was stolen. If he wants to state that, If former

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Speaker 7: President Trump wants to state that, which of course he

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Speaker 7: has repeatedly, that's protected. But then if he goes to

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Speaker 7: the next step and says, and because the election was stolen,

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Speaker 7: I want you to join me in a conspiracy to

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Speaker 7: prevent the peaceful transfer of power to prevent the actual

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Speaker 7: counting and certification of the electoral votes at the congressional

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Speaker 7: proceedings on January sixth. That's different that conduct, that concerted action,

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Speaker 7: that's not protected free speech under the First Amendment.

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Speaker 2: Well, so, that aspirational ask was a big moment on

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Speaker 2: the Sunday Shows yesterday, as John Lauro did the full

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Speaker 2: Ginsburg I'm curious your thought on another important moment in

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Speaker 2: the conversation here, Jimmy, and that's relocating the trial, that's

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Speaker 2: the seeking a new venue, and he believes that West

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Speaker 2: Virginia would be the place to go. Here's what he said.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, we would like a diverse venue, a diverse jury.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any expectation that will be granted.

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Speaker 9: That reflects the characteristics of the American people. It's up

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Speaker 9: to the judge. I think West Virginia would be an

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Speaker 9: excellent venue to try this course.

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Speaker 2: From Face the Nation on CBS, Jimmy, is this the

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Speaker 2: comedy portion of the program.

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Speaker 7: That's humorous? That's actually humorous because if you look at

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Speaker 7: at the population makeup in West Virginia, I believe it's

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Speaker 7: something over ninety percent of the population, and in Washington,

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Speaker 7: d C. The population is much more diverse and mixed

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Speaker 7: between white African American Latinos and others. And so actually

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Speaker 7: this claim that they're looking for a more diverse population

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Speaker 7: to location to hold the trial, that's DC, not the

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Speaker 7: more monolithic West Virginia.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's about the location of the trial, but also

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Speaker 3: they have issues with the judge in particular, Tanya Chutkin,

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Speaker 3: do you think they have any real chance at getting

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Speaker 3: a recusal here or someone else put on this case.

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Speaker 7: Well, you have to have a basis, you know, you

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Speaker 7: have to have an evidentiary basis. So what's the claim

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Speaker 7: that the judge that's assigned to the case currently cannot

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Speaker 7: be fair and impartial in deciding the matter? What is

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Speaker 7: the basis for that? And apparently you know she's denied,

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Speaker 7: you know, she's denied this motion for an extension of time.

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Speaker 7: But just because she's ruled on one matter against President

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Speaker 7: Trump and his and his legal team, that's that's simply

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Speaker 7: not enough to justify this claim that she cannot be

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Speaker 7: impartial and independent in presiding over the trial.

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Speaker 2: See how easy it is when you talk to somebody

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Speaker 2: who knows what they're talking about. This is so helpful. Jimmy,

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Speaker 2: We can't thank you enough. Jimmy Grule, Please come back

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Speaker 2: and talk to us again. Law professor noted dame former

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Speaker 2: assistant US Attorney in the Central District of California, crisp

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Speaker 2: answers plaining clarity. This is what people need. We're going

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Speaker 2: to try to do this for you as long as

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Speaker 2: these cases exist. With Kaylee Lines, I'm Joe Matthew in Washington.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg you're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast.

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Speaker 1: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 10: And the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: As we've been discussing, we could have another indictment on

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Speaker 2: our hands just about any time now. It's imminent, according

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Speaker 2: to insiders following the case in Georgia. This is Fulton County,

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Speaker 2: a completely different prosecutor, similar story. It has to do

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Speaker 2: with attempts to overturn the results of the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 2: But Donald Trump, by God, can't seem to wait for it. Kayley,

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Speaker 2: Is that just me? I mean have seen the polls

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Speaker 2: and the fundraising go up after each indictment. I'd like

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Speaker 2: to see a little reporting on that today. This last

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Speaker 2: one is done. But listen to him over the weekend.

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Speaker 11: In South Carolina, every time they file an indictment, we

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Speaker 11: go way up in the polls. We need one more

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Speaker 11: indictment to close out this election. One more indictment and

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Speaker 11: this election is closed out.

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Speaker 2: Nobody has even a chance. Can you imagine being Ronda

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Speaker 2: Santis listening to that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, must be tough, especially when when people who have

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Speaker 3: endorsed Ronda Santis, like Congressman Thomas Massey, a Republican from Kentucky,

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Speaker 3: literally said, quoted in the Miami Herald article last week,

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Speaker 3: that they need to find some judge in Florida that'll

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Speaker 3: indict to Santa's quick to close this indictment gap.

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Speaker 2: Wow, the indictment gap. The indictment that's pretty good too. Actually,

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Speaker 2: then you know it gets even worse when he wakes

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Speaker 2: up and reads Nancy Cook's column. Yeah, this got picked

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Speaker 2: up a lot in the last twenty four hours. Here,

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Speaker 2: the headline says it all DeSantis camp hit by gloom

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Speaker 2: as aids worry race is slipping away. Isn't it amazing

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Speaker 2: how quickly we went from oh, listen, it's so early

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Speaker 2: national polls to he better hurry up because the windows

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Speaker 2: closing talk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it was one thing when he was falling

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Speaker 3: further and further behind Trump, who is still the front

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Speaker 3: runner in the polling. Then you get all of the

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Speaker 3: actual financial data and see, yes, he was raising a

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Speaker 3: lot but also burning a lot. That it was you know,

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Speaker 3: partly political, sure, but also operational. The issues with this

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Speaker 3: campaign very much so.

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Speaker 2: To the point where he ended up a special guest

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Speaker 2: on his super Packs bus. Yeah, Nancy's with us right now,

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Speaker 2: deep inside the campaigns here. This is a great piece

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Speaker 2: of reporting that if you didn't already see, I will

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Speaker 2: point you to on the terminal and it's great to

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Speaker 2: have you, Nancy. What are they more worried about at

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Speaker 2: the moment, polling or funding.

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Speaker 12: I think that they're honestly worried about both. You know,

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Speaker 12: they're very worried about funding. One of the largest owners

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Speaker 12: to the super Pac, Robert Bigelow, who gave the super

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Speaker 12: Pac twenty million dollars, set on Friday, that he wanted

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Speaker 12: to see changes to the campaign and also more changes

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Speaker 12: to DeSantis's position, So that's a huge blow to them.

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Speaker 12: He feels like DeSantis needs to moderate some of his positions,

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Speaker 12: particularly on abortion. And then I think they're also just

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Speaker 12: really worried about the polling. There was a fascinating New

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Speaker 12: York Times Siena College poll last week, which Joe, you

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Speaker 12: and I have talked about, which really showed that that

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Speaker 12: DeSantis is falling behind not just nationally but in early

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Speaker 12: primary states, and one of the most interesting data points

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Speaker 12: from that pool talked about how a lot of his

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Speaker 12: messages on culture wars just are not resonating with Republican

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Speaker 12: primary voters, and that's really the crux of his campaign

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Speaker 12: at this point.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: And as part of this reset, obviously, he's trimmed down

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Speaker 3: the size of the campaign staff, trying to you know,

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Speaker 3: work on the finances with that donor concern that you're mentioning, Nancy,

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Speaker 3: but also in terms of that messaging, trying not to

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Speaker 3: make it so Florida centric. He gave that big economic

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Speaker 3: speech just last week. Are there any signs that reset

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Speaker 3: in terms of messaging is taking hold yet? Have we

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Speaker 3: seen any of the numbers, Budge.

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Speaker 12: We haven't seen the numbers, Budge. And I will tell

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Speaker 12: you that I was with him in Iowa the days

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Speaker 12: before he gave that economic speech, and he was still

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Speaker 12: giving like twenty to thirty minutes basically Florida stump speeches

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Speaker 12: at all of these stops. He was under a lot

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Speaker 12: of pressure to deliver that economic address from aids and

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Speaker 12: donors who really wanted him to broaden that message. But

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Speaker 12: then this week too, we've seen him go back to

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Speaker 12: the Florida Center message. And I just think his staff

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Speaker 12: in tallahassee between the layoffs between the strategy, between the messaging,

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Speaker 12: They're just feeling really down and out. There's a real

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Speaker 12: sense of gloom there and even at the highest levels

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Speaker 12: of the campaign that things are not going well.

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Speaker 2: Might explain his posture over the past twenty four to

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Speaker 2: forty eight hours. Nancy, every time a story like this hits,

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Speaker 2: every time he's asked about the you know, having trouble

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Speaker 2: keeping up with Trump not being a great retail politician,

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Speaker 2: he seems to lean in a little bit more. He

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Speaker 2: said to NBC this morning that he, of course, he

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Speaker 2: said Donald Trump lost the election, and over the weekend

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Speaker 2: he was railing about promises unkept. He talked about the

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Speaker 2: wall not being completed. He talked about Donald Trump's impact

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Speaker 2: on the national debt.

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Speaker 13: Listen, and then he actually said he was going to

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Speaker 13: eliminate the national debt. He added eight trillion dollars to

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Speaker 13: the debt. We've paid down our debt in Florida. He

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Speaker 13: did more in four years than any president has ever

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Speaker 13: done to expand it. That's the record we should talk about.

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Speaker 13: Don't worry about, you know how he does his hair.

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Speaker 13: This all that we got to stop with that.

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Speaker 2: Is this the DeSantis three point zero Nancy.

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Speaker 12: He is definitely going after Trump more. I would say

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Speaker 12: his team has been reluctant to totally go after Trump

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Speaker 12: because their view is that what they really need to

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Speaker 12: win this election is DeSantis uniting college educated Republican voters

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Speaker 12: but also MAGA voters, also Trump supporters, and so they've

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Speaker 12: never wanted to go after Trump too aggressively because they

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Speaker 12: don't want to alienate those people. But it's such a

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Speaker 12: tricky role for him because Trump remains just so dominant

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Speaker 12: in the field, and these indictments, three of them now

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Speaker 12: have only solidified that position for him.

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Speaker 3: Well, and when we're talking about that interview that DeSantis gave,

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Speaker 3: it's worth noting that as part of that with NBC

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Speaker 3: they also talk to Casey DeSantis. They were together on

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Speaker 3: the bus. Casey DeSantis plays a very prominent role in

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Speaker 3: this campaign. Is there any rethink about her role, about

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Speaker 3: that strategy perhaps not working or is that one of

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Speaker 3: the few things working in his favor?

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Speaker 12: Well, she is not going anywhere. For many, many years,

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Speaker 12: dating back to his congressional first race for Congress, has

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Speaker 12: been basically his most important advisor and most important political advisor.

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Speaker 12: She is heavily involved in personnel decisions. She is heavily

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Speaker 12: involved in staffing decisions. And I think that a huge

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Speaker 12: part of the reason that the campaign manager, Genera Peck,

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Speaker 12: has kept her job is because Casey is close to her.

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Speaker 12: They think the campaign thinks that Casey makes DeSantis more human,

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Speaker 12: more relatable, more likable, softens him a bit just outside

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Speaker 12: of him talking about, you know, a laundry list of

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Speaker 12: conservative policy proposals. So she is absolutely not going anywhere.

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Speaker 12: And I do think voters, you know, when they meet

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Speaker 12: her on the stump, do find her, you know, charming

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Speaker 12: and more personable than they find him. And you know,

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Speaker 12: but the thing is she's not running for president.

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Speaker 6: He is.

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Speaker 12: And I think that that's what voters are still pretty

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Speaker 12: mixed on.

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Speaker 2: We've obviously got the debate later on this month, Nancy,

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Speaker 2: that'll be a big point on the campaign. Trill. And

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Speaker 2: I assume that he is going, as he's been shaming

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump into going as well. What other events can

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Speaker 2: he sees on We spoke this it was last hour

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Speaker 2: actually about the Iowa State Fair coming up this week.

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Speaker 2: Where are there opportunities for Ron DeSantis to show improvements

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Speaker 2: in the campaign, to show that they're becoming more efficient.

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Speaker 12: Well, I think they're trying to show that they're more

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Speaker 12: efficient by you know, having a much leaner campaign. But

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Speaker 12: also I think what they're trying to do is just

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Speaker 12: be a lot more places and do a lot more

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Speaker 12: things publicly. So you're seeing that with the Iowa State Fair.

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Speaker 12: You're seeing that with like a lot of travel. But

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Speaker 12: you're also seeing that with them trying to do more

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Speaker 12: media interviews, you know, more gaggles with reporters. He had

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Speaker 12: really shunned doing that, and what they found was that

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Speaker 12: Trump sort of sucks up all the oxygen and gets

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Speaker 12: like a lot of stories written about him and he's

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Speaker 12: on TV all the time, and DeSantis sort of wasn't

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Speaker 12: getting that exposure. So they're really trying to put him

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Speaker 12: out more. I know the campaign is also extremely excited

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Speaker 12: about this idea of him debating California Governor Gavin Newsom. Yes,

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Speaker 12: I think that will be you know, a really strong

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Speaker 12: contrast between a red state governor and a blue state governor.

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Speaker 2: It's a risky play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe he'll get to debate Newsome, but He's

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Speaker 3: not necessarily going to get to debate Trump right in

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks here in Milwaukee.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, Okay. I think that there's like a five

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Speaker 12: percent chance Trump's Trump shows up.

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Speaker 3: So that's not zero, it's not zero.

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Speaker 12: His advisors have presented him with a range of things

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Speaker 12: he could do outside of the debate. He has not

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Speaker 12: made a decision yet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you're saying there's a Nancy thank you. Great

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Speaker 2: reporting is ever Bloomberg Senior national political correspondent Nancy Cook,

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Speaker 2: I always stayed fair. Starts Thursday, it goes on for

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Speaker 2: like the rest of the month. The twenty third is

439
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: the debate, Yes, and then after that we're going to

440
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: be talking about Critiera for the second debate, and that

441
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: could be a very small number of people they want

442
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: to Winnow this field a lot more quickly than last

443
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Speaker 2: time around.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

445
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

446
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

447
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

448
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: Important headlines on the terminal coming from Israel and following

449
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: our exclusive interview with Prime Minister Benjamin nettan Yahoo the

450
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: headline Netanyah who seeks to change how judges are named,

451
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: then stop revamp Kayley. This is a pretty important turn

452
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: in the story. We talked about it a bit last

453
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Speaker 2: week with regard to the judicial overhaul. Netanyah who now

454
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Speaker 2: says he will not pursue the whole overhaul that was

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Speaker 2: first planned by his government. He's only going after, as

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, the makeup of judge selection the Judge Selection

457
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Speaker 2: Committee and basically given up on a lot of the

458
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Speaker 2: rest of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so in theory this is a concession from It's

460
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Speaker 3: just the question now, is is that one that the

461
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: opposition is going to find satisfactory if it still is

462
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 3: altering the way that judges are selected. And the early indications,

463
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Speaker 3: at least from a reporting here at Bloomberg, is that

464
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Speaker 3: maybe the opposition isn't really fully satisfied by this.

465
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Speaker 2: Says there's no constitutional crisis in the conversation with Bloomberg.

466
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Speaker 14: I don't think we should move from one extreme where

467
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 14: we have perhaps the most activist judicial court on the

468
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Speaker 14: planet to get in to a point where the legislature

469
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 14: are connessed can just knock out any decision that the

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Speaker 14: court makes. There has to be a balance. That's what

471
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Speaker 14: we're trying to restore.

472
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: Restoring balance, he says, if you look at the number

473
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Speaker 2: of people who've been in the streets and spent weeks

474
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Speaker 2: protesting this, Kayley, obviously not everyone agrees.

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Speaker 3: Yes, now, mister Netanyah, who says that this is about

476
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 3: a difference between an independent court and an all powerful one,

477
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: and that in Israel, the courts, and this is a

478
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: direct quote, have all the checks but have no balance.

479
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: In what he is trying to achieve is more balance.

480
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: And yet that is what these masses of protesters we

481
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: have seen for months now in Israel really seem to

482
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: fundamentally disagree with.

483
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: We're joining to talk about it by Galit Alstein, Bloomberg

484
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: Economy and Government reporter based in Tel Aviv. Just to

485
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: start off, Ghale, what's the status of those protests?

486
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 11: Hi?

487
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 15: So the status now is that they're still going on.

488
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 15: I would say that they're down by a bit because Knesset,

489
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 15: Israel's parliament is currently on lithus, so no legislation can

490
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 15: really go through this stage. But you can definitely say

491
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 15: that they're still holding up. Every Saturday night there are

492
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 15: very big protests. The main one is in Tel Aviv,

493
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 15: but they do go on in about one hundred and

494
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 15: thirty to one hundred and fifty more locations all over Israel.

495
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 15: And this is a small country, so this is a

496
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 15: large number of locations. I would say that according to organizers,

497
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 15: roughly somewhere between three hundred thousand to three hundred and

498
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 15: fifty thousand participate on a regular basis at this time.

499
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: Protesters any wow, So is it safe to say elide

500
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 3: that this concession isn't going to be seen as a

501
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: satisfactory concession?

502
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 15: It will not. So we've actually we've seen the responses today.

503
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 15: The Bloomberg interview had a very big impact in Israel.

504
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 15: It was quoted in all major news outlets and all

505
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 15: the big newspapers today, with the headline everywhere focusing first

506
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 15: on the fact that the Prime Minister did vow to

507
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 15: change the jug selection process, and then the second part

508
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 15: of the headline was that he was then going to

509
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 15: stop the revent. Okay, So that was the order of

510
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 15: things the way that they were reported in the Israeli media.

511
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 15: Now we've seen since last night here in Israel, when

512
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 15: the interview was first published we've seen the reactions so

513
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 15: opposition politicians from the opposition we're very very upset with

514
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 15: what Nathaniel was doing. And the protest movement is also

515
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 15: about to intensify the protests after what he had said,

516
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 15: after what Nathaniel it said to Bloomberg. Now, the main

517
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 15: point I think to understand on this is that although

518
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 15: the judicial overhaul that we are speaking about, which is

519
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 15: very dramatic and very controversial here in Israel, basically had

520
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 15: like five pillars when it was first announced on January

521
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 15: fourth by Nathaniel's Justice Minister, and so far they've just

522
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 15: legislated this one thing out of the five, which was

523
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 15: basically the canceling the reasonableness doctor in We won't go

524
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 15: into that now, but that's what the government legislated so far.

525
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 15: So then they have four other things that they have

526
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 15: not legislated as right. But the changing of the judge

527
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 15: selection process and the judge selection committee is extream here

528
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 15: is a very dramatic step, and I would say the

529
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 15: most dramatic step of this overhaul because it would in

530
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 15: fact allow politicians or grant politicians much bigger power on

531
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 15: the power to basically decide who the judges will be

532
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 15: at the Supreme Court and in the Israeli system of government.

533
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 15: This is a very big deal. It's very different from

534
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 15: the US government.

535
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: For example, Khalid, I want to ask you about Saudi Arabia.

536
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: This is another important headline that came from our interview,

537
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: and I suspect it's resonating where you are in Israel.

538
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: Netanyahu says, bet on Israel and Saudi Arabia, deepening ties

539
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: the headline. Here's a brief portion of what he said.

540
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 10: I think that we're about to with the spivotal history.

541
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 10: Maybe I can't guarantee that will happen, but first, there's

542
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 10: an economic corridor of energy, transport and communications that naturally

543
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 10: goes through our geography from the Arabian Peninsula, from Asia

544
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 10: to the Arabian Peninsula to Europe. We're going to realize that,

545
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 10: and by the way my senses, we're going to realize that,

546
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 10: despite whether we have formal peace or not.

547
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: Elite I only have about a minute here a pivot

548
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: of history. How is that resonating in Tel Aviv?

549
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 15: Well, you know, it's also making an impact. I think

550
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 15: that some government officials that have been speaking to over

551
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 15: the past few weeks have said similar things to me.

552
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 15: And basically what everyone is looking at or when everyone

553
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 15: is looking at, is around March of next year, of

554
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 15: twenty twenty four, taking into consideration that the Biden administration

555
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 15: will be very involved, is very in these efforts to

556
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 15: reach some sort of agreement between Saudi and Israel. And

557
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 15: after March on assumption is that President Inviten will be

558
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 15: extremely busy with his presidential campaign. So people are saying

559
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 15: that if anything happens, it should happen by then. And yeah,

560
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 15: there is a lot of talk around that, but you know,

561
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 15: we still have to see whether they are the region agreement,

562
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 15: you know, especially with all the security matters that Seldi's

563
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 15: want to achieve a disagreement.

564
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: All right, Khalid, thank you for bringing us up today.

565
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Khalid's Altstein Bloomberg Economy and Government reporter based in Tel Aviv.

566
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: You can watch the full interview with Benjamin ett Nyahu

567
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: at the terminal and the website This is Bloomberg.

568
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

569
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, tune

570
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: in aut Bloomberg dot com.

571
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 10: And the Bloomberg Business app.

572
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: You can also and live on Amazon Alexa from our

573
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

574
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: Donald Trump talking about different kind of showers over the weekend.

575
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: He can't help but to do this, and you know,

576
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: we just we need to do it right. This would have,

577
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: I believe South Carolina where he got into the bit

578
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: once again over the weekend. Here we go. I just

579
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: want to get there. Here's the word.

580
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 8: You know, little things like your sink. You know, you

581
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 8: buy a sink and no water comes out because they

582
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 8: have regulators on the water. Even if you're in a

583
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 8: state where water comes out of heaven all day long.

584
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 8: Doesn't make any difference. When you take a shower.

585
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 12: I like to have.

586
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 8: You don't have this gorgeous head of hair, right, I

587
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 8: like when I take a shower, I want water to

588
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 8: pour down on me. When you go into these new

589
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 8: homes with showers, the water drips down slowly, slowly. You

590
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 8: have sudds beautiful, nice, wonderful. Such a lot of money.

591
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 8: Proster and gamble all that the craft that they say

592
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 8: is good probably cost him cost him about two cents,

593
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 8: and they sell it for ten dollars. But huh, all right,

594
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 8: you can't it takes you ten minutes to wash your hair.

595
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: I'm still not sure why he's bringing it up, although

596
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: he did say that that he fixed that when he

597
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: was president. Did Joe Biden go around changing all the faucets?

598
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on that.

599
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't know.

600
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Sound on podcast. Make sure

601
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and

602
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: anywhere else you get your podcasts. And you can find

603
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm

604
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com