WEBVTT - Moonlight Review + Barry Jenkins & Naomie Harris Interview | Archive 0:00:21.244 --> 0:00:24.604 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:24.645 --> 0:00:27.565 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:31.365 just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 0:00:31.725 --> 0:00:34.725 with no blackout dates or restrictions. Sign up now on 0:00:34.765 --> 0:00:36.964 the Regal app or at the link in our description 0:00:37.165 --> 0:00:41.004 and use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen 0:00:41.045 --> 0:00:44.845 percent off time for another archive drop. Josh and we 0:00:44.885 --> 0:00:49.724 are continuing our best Picture winners theme building up to 0:00:49.885 --> 0:00:53.844 the Oscars. We've got a look back at Barry Jenkins 0:00:53.965 --> 0:00:58.005 twenty seventeen. Yes it won not La La Land. Moonlight 0:00:58.365 --> 0:01:02.645 one best picture that year, surprise at the moment, and 0:01:03.685 --> 0:01:09.045 seems like the better and better choice every year that 0:01:09.125 --> 0:01:11.884 has gone by, which isn't always the case necessarily for 0:01:12.605 --> 0:01:15.524 Best Picture winners. I think people and sometimes us we 0:01:15.685 --> 0:01:18.325 like to joke about them, but in this case, I 0:01:18.325 --> 0:01:20.244 think they probably got it right. And that's no shade 0:01:20.285 --> 0:01:22.125 on Lalla Land, which I still love and think is 0:01:22.164 --> 0:01:25.924 an incredible film. But yeah, for me at least, there's 0:01:26.444 --> 0:01:31.165 increasing resonance with Moonlight, even beyond what we found in 0:01:31.205 --> 0:01:32.164 our original review. 0:01:32.405 --> 0:01:34.684 Well, let's see what we had to say in our 0:01:34.725 --> 0:01:38.124 original review, and also we'll get to hear what Barry 0:01:38.205 --> 0:01:41.765 Jenkins himself, along with his star Naomi Harris, had to 0:01:41.765 --> 0:01:44.804 say about the film. I had the opportunity to talk 0:01:44.845 --> 0:01:47.525 to them back when the film was released in October 0:01:47.565 --> 0:01:51.005 twenty sixteen, So you're going to get that conversation followed 0:01:51.005 --> 0:01:52.245 by our review. 0:01:53.805 --> 0:01:54.485 What happened? 0:01:56.525 --> 0:01:57.525 What happens? Chiron? 0:01:58.085 --> 0:01:59.765 Why you didn't come home like you're supposed to? 0:02:00.485 --> 0:02:02.725 Huh? 0:02:02.765 --> 0:02:03.404 And who is you? 0:02:04.285 --> 0:02:10.005 Nobody? I found him yesterday, found him in a hold 0:02:10.085 --> 0:02:12.885 on fifteen, Yeah, that one. 0:02:14.125 --> 0:02:17.045 Some boys chased him in a cut scared more than anything. 0:02:17.885 --> 0:02:19.685 Wouldn't tell me where he lived on this morning. 0:02:21.205 --> 0:02:24.965 Wow. Thanks for seeing to them. You usually can take 0:02:25.005 --> 0:02:25.805 care of itself. 0:02:27.285 --> 0:02:31.285 Be good that way, Barry. I'll start with you. 0:02:31.365 --> 0:02:34.644 Medicine from Melancholy was a movie that certainly earned some acclaim. 0:02:34.685 --> 0:02:38.165 I remember it got generally very favorable reviews. But the 0:02:38.204 --> 0:02:40.364 response to this movie Moonlight seems to be its own 0:02:40.484 --> 0:02:42.525 kind of whirlwind. Do you have a sense of what 0:02:42.565 --> 0:02:46.165 it is that audiences are connecting with so strongly and 0:02:46.484 --> 0:02:48.285 is it the same thing as what drew you to 0:02:48.365 --> 0:02:48.924 the material? 0:02:49.325 --> 0:02:52.285 Yeah? You know, I think it's really the movie's very personal, 0:02:52.484 --> 0:02:54.685 you know, and I think people just sort of they 0:02:54.725 --> 0:02:58.365 identify with, you know how specifically we sort of engage 0:02:58.405 --> 0:03:01.084 Hyonn's struggle, you know, and it's not this thing where 0:03:01.445 --> 0:03:03.965 what Chiron goes through is relatable to everyone. I think 0:03:04.005 --> 0:03:07.205 people see just how deep we dove into that one character, 0:03:07.484 --> 0:03:10.244 and they go, oh, I wish someone could add the 0:03:10.365 --> 0:03:13.445 deeply into me. You know, they see themselves in the character. 0:03:13.445 --> 0:03:15.965 They don't see everyone in the character. And I think 0:03:15.965 --> 0:03:18.484 in that one to one exchange, the movie is just spreading, 0:03:18.565 --> 0:03:18.925 you know. 0:03:19.325 --> 0:03:20.885 And you don't have to get too personal, but what 0:03:21.125 --> 0:03:21.685 you see in the. 0:03:21.685 --> 0:03:25.005 Character, well, you know, for Chirone, you know, and Naomi 0:03:25.085 --> 0:03:27.005 sitting next to me, And to be brutally honest, you know, 0:03:27.044 --> 0:03:29.365 when I first read Suel's Peace, which was written here 0:03:29.405 --> 0:03:31.765 in Chicago actually when he was an undergrader to Paul 0:03:32.245 --> 0:03:35.525 Naomi plays his character Paula, who is a composite of 0:03:35.565 --> 0:03:38.005 my mom and t Where's Mom? And so I could 0:03:38.045 --> 0:03:40.525 just relate to Chirone as a kid who was watching 0:03:40.525 --> 0:03:42.845 this person who he loves, you know, go through this 0:03:42.965 --> 0:03:44.245 is just terrible ordeal. 0:03:44.925 --> 0:03:47.645 And now we speaking of your character Paula. As viewers, 0:03:47.685 --> 0:03:50.445 we make certain assumptions and judgments about her. I think 0:03:50.485 --> 0:03:53.404 before we even meet her, her son is so determined 0:03:53.445 --> 0:03:55.205 not to go home and to hang out with these 0:03:55.445 --> 0:03:58.805 total strangers, we wonder how horrible his home life must be. 0:03:59.165 --> 0:04:01.285 When we do meet her, we recognize she may not 0:04:01.365 --> 0:04:03.684 be perfect, but she is caring and she is protective, 0:04:03.765 --> 0:04:06.165 like we expect a mother to be. There's a decline 0:04:06.205 --> 0:04:08.605 from there. But how did you go about not judging 0:04:08.645 --> 0:04:10.365 this incredibly flawed character. 0:04:11.205 --> 0:04:13.525 I didn't, I think initially. I think that was my 0:04:13.725 --> 0:04:16.605 biggest discovery. Actually when I started, when I took on 0:04:16.685 --> 0:04:19.525 the role, I thought initially that I didn't want to 0:04:20.325 --> 0:04:22.725 play paul Or. I had some resistance to playing her 0:04:22.805 --> 0:04:27.405 because I wanted to portray positive images of women and 0:04:27.605 --> 0:04:30.485 positive images of black women in particular. But actually, once 0:04:30.525 --> 0:04:33.925 I started researching the character, I really realized I had 0:04:33.925 --> 0:04:35.685 to be honest with myself that a lot of the 0:04:35.725 --> 0:04:39.805 resistance was about my own judgment about addiction. I'm miscontrol freak. 0:04:39.885 --> 0:04:42.285 I'm teetotal and a drink and of smoke and don't 0:04:42.284 --> 0:04:46.045 even drink coffee. So I had a real problem getting 0:04:46.085 --> 0:04:49.685 wrapping my head around what drives someone to have an 0:04:49.685 --> 0:04:52.765 addiction to something like crack cocaine. And it was a 0:04:52.805 --> 0:04:55.685 wonderful journey where I had to learn deep compassion well, 0:04:55.725 --> 0:04:59.844 first of all, understanding and then deep empathy for Paula's choices. 0:05:00.005 --> 0:05:02.485 Yeah, and without spoiling too much of the movie and 0:05:02.525 --> 0:05:05.164 the journey Paula goes on, did you come to see 0:05:05.485 --> 0:05:07.125 her journey as a positive one? 0:05:07.485 --> 0:05:12.284 Absolutely? I think it's a shining example of how you 0:05:12.325 --> 0:05:14.565 know you can only give to others what you have 0:05:14.685 --> 0:05:18.725 received yourself. You know, if your love tank is empty 0:05:18.805 --> 0:05:21.205 because you didn't receive what you needed as a child, wild, 0:05:21.525 --> 0:05:24.445 it's very difficult to give that to another human being. 0:05:24.844 --> 0:05:28.045 And also another human being is who that's your child 0:05:28.165 --> 0:05:30.484 because often your child is you know, your child is 0:05:30.485 --> 0:05:33.405 an extension of yourself. So I think your self loathing 0:05:33.765 --> 0:05:36.125 and Paula has a lot of that is taken out 0:05:36.125 --> 0:05:38.044 on your child because when you look at them, you 0:05:38.085 --> 0:05:41.005 see yourself. So until you heal that relationship with yourself, 0:05:41.005 --> 0:05:43.205 I think it's very difficult to have another. 0:05:43.045 --> 0:05:44.885 Human I think that really comes through in particular in 0:05:44.964 --> 0:05:47.645 one scene kind of at her worst moment, where she 0:05:47.765 --> 0:05:50.364 says almost in a hunting way but also in a 0:05:50.445 --> 0:05:53.805 loving way, that you're my only and I'm yours. There 0:05:53.844 --> 0:05:56.805 is that reflection back in those characters. So what's more 0:05:56.885 --> 0:06:00.325 challenging than shooting a Bond film in this den bowl 0:06:00.365 --> 0:06:03.205 with all these action scenes, or playing someone so opposite 0:06:03.205 --> 0:06:04.005 who you really are? 0:06:06.245 --> 0:06:11.445 I would say, actually, yeah, yes, because of all the stunts. 0:06:11.725 --> 0:06:16.325 Yeah it's that's no. They're just completely different challenges, aren't they. 0:06:16.404 --> 0:06:19.365 They're sure and yeah, it's challenging in a completely different way. 0:06:19.404 --> 0:06:20.685 Well, so I guess the more serious version of that 0:06:20.765 --> 0:06:22.685 question is why is it important to you as an 0:06:22.685 --> 0:06:26.725 actress to take both kinds of roles, these big action spectacles, 0:06:26.725 --> 0:06:28.685 but do these smaller, more intimate movies as. 0:06:28.565 --> 0:06:33.725 Well, Because I think because I'm ultimately interested both as 0:06:33.725 --> 0:06:37.364 a performer and as an individual in growth and learning. 0:06:38.365 --> 0:06:41.645 I think that in life we often play one character, 0:06:42.205 --> 0:06:46.125 and actually we are made up of multiple characters that 0:06:46.485 --> 0:06:49.165 usually most people don't get to discover. And I think 0:06:49.205 --> 0:06:52.165 the joy in acting is discovering all those different parts 0:06:52.245 --> 0:06:55.765 of yourself. And that's what acting allows you to do. 0:06:55.925 --> 0:06:58.164 And if I play varied roles and I get to 0:06:58.205 --> 0:07:01.005 exercise those parts of myself I never knew existed. 0:07:01.605 --> 0:07:04.085 Barry, I wanted to ask you about the influences, because 0:07:04.085 --> 0:07:05.525 I know you've gotten this question a lot. At the 0:07:05.605 --> 0:07:09.044 Chicago Film Fest Q and A after the movie, you 0:07:09.325 --> 0:07:11.605 throughout the three movies that you said had the biggest 0:07:11.605 --> 0:07:14.165 influence on the style of this film, both Travia, three 0:07:14.205 --> 0:07:16.805 Times Happy Together, and I think you can definitely see 0:07:16.805 --> 0:07:18.925 those influences in the film and the way that it's 0:07:19.005 --> 0:07:22.725 quite lyrical. It's certainly not focused on gritty realism necessarily. 0:07:23.125 --> 0:07:25.085 And the moments that, as I reflect back on it 0:07:25.125 --> 0:07:27.325 to stand out to me in the movie are actually 0:07:27.725 --> 0:07:29.965 just those There. There are moments, There are the moments 0:07:30.005 --> 0:07:32.965 that you kind of draw out or heighten or return to. 0:07:33.085 --> 0:07:35.285 There are kind of moments that these tableaux kind of 0:07:35.325 --> 0:07:37.565 moments that almost take you out of time and space. 0:07:37.805 --> 0:07:40.525 And I thought that was appropriate because I think those 0:07:41.325 --> 0:07:44.165 those are the moments we remember from our childhoods. As 0:07:44.205 --> 0:07:46.685 we reflect back, we think of those. We we forget 0:07:46.765 --> 0:07:49.765 a lot, but we remember just certain images and certain sounds. 0:07:49.885 --> 0:07:52.365 Yeah, And as a person who has you know, kind 0:07:52.365 --> 0:07:56.165 of found their voice through creating visual storytelling, you know, 0:07:56.245 --> 0:07:59.005 through through images, you know, it was something to roll 0:07:59.005 --> 0:08:01.125 on to always discussed this project as sort of being 0:08:01.205 --> 0:08:03.365 like a like a fever dream. You know, I said 0:08:03.365 --> 0:08:05.685 to him, you've taken memories of my memories and and 0:08:05.965 --> 0:08:08.765 and sort of like presented them as his fever dream. 0:08:09.325 --> 0:08:11.165 And I feel like in the film, you know, I 0:08:11.205 --> 0:08:14.245 wanted the audience to experience, you know, what Shyrona is experiencing. 0:08:14.525 --> 0:08:16.925 And he is almost like he's a participant in his 0:08:16.965 --> 0:08:19.645 own life. But at some point this consciousness sort of 0:08:19.685 --> 0:08:21.405 like you know, it sort of gets away from him, 0:08:21.445 --> 0:08:24.605 you know, and it takes on this heightened quality, you know, 0:08:24.605 --> 0:08:26.845 And I wanted to find a way to translate that, 0:08:26.885 --> 0:08:28.725 you know, in a way that the audience can experience 0:08:28.805 --> 0:08:30.765 what the character is experiencing. 0:08:30.925 --> 0:08:33.525 Yeah, and that notion of it being a fever dream, 0:08:33.645 --> 0:08:36.285 it reminds me of what Terrell said about having written 0:08:36.325 --> 0:08:38.765 this this script or written this play and then realized 0:08:38.765 --> 0:08:41.405 that he couldn't really stage it. You obviously saw something 0:08:41.485 --> 0:08:43.725 cinematic in the material, was say. 0:08:43.685 --> 0:08:44.205 Yeah right away. 0:08:44.245 --> 0:08:46.885 You know. It was partly because you know, as a filmmaker, 0:08:46.885 --> 0:08:49.444 I've never made anything that was like personal in this way, 0:08:49.485 --> 0:08:51.325 but which I mean that was like at the foundation 0:08:51.405 --> 0:08:53.325 of how I grew up, where I grew up, when 0:08:53.325 --> 0:08:56.364 I grew up and Terrell's Peace gave me the opportunity 0:08:56.365 --> 0:08:58.645 to do that, and because of that, it's like a 0:08:58.645 --> 0:09:01.444 one to one sort of like translation. It's like, Oh, 0:09:01.525 --> 0:09:03.325 I know exactly what that looks like and what that 0:09:03.365 --> 0:09:05.445 feels like. I don't need to travel, you know, two 0:09:05.485 --> 0:09:08.325 thousand miles to Miami to know what that corner feels like. 0:09:08.485 --> 0:09:10.605 I've been there, you know, and in a beautiful way, 0:09:10.645 --> 0:09:13.285 and then took this filmmaking voice I've developed, which is 0:09:13.365 --> 0:09:16.805 absent from my home environment where I grew up, and now. 0:09:16.684 --> 0:09:17.525 I can I think. 0:09:17.564 --> 0:09:20.885 I think film has given me a chance to speak about, 0:09:21.085 --> 0:09:23.165 you know, the way I grew up in a voice 0:09:23.205 --> 0:09:25.405 that I didn't think myself capable of, you know, And 0:09:25.845 --> 0:09:28.965 then the converse happened, where now my filmmaking voice has 0:09:29.005 --> 0:09:31.685 been elevated because I know this world so viscerally. 0:09:31.965 --> 0:09:34.564 The films that you mentioned as influences are those films 0:09:34.605 --> 0:09:37.885 that you came to through film school and kind of 0:09:37.925 --> 0:09:39.565 later as you got into cinema, or were they some 0:09:39.564 --> 0:09:41.805 of the films that really turned you on to cinema 0:09:41.845 --> 0:09:42.525 in the first place. 0:09:42.605 --> 0:09:44.365 You know, The two things happened at once. Yeah, I 0:09:44.365 --> 0:09:47.005 didn't I wasn't in love with cinema at all. Growing up, 0:09:47.045 --> 0:09:49.204 I didn't really care that much about movies. I kind 0:09:49.205 --> 0:09:51.565 of stumbled into it after I was already at Florida 0:09:51.564 --> 0:09:55.045 State doing my undergrad and creative writing, and I'm a 0:09:55.045 --> 0:09:57.925 big football fan, and there just happened to be a 0:09:57.965 --> 0:10:00.125 film school in the football stadium. That's where the film 0:10:00.125 --> 0:10:02.285 school was at Florida State. Yeah, so I was going 0:10:02.325 --> 0:10:05.045 to a football game because they rebuilt the stadium, and 0:10:05.085 --> 0:10:06.765 I think out of guilt, they had to put something 0:10:06.765 --> 0:10:09.445 there that wasn't football related, and that was the film school. 0:10:09.645 --> 0:10:10.845 So I thought, oh, I kind of like movies. 0:10:10.885 --> 0:10:11.605 I'll check this out. 0:10:12.245 --> 0:10:14.805 And I saw right away that everybody was the movies 0:10:14.845 --> 0:10:17.405 they were watching were sort of informing their aesthetic, and 0:10:17.445 --> 0:10:19.844 I thought, I want my aesthetic to be unique, and 0:10:19.885 --> 0:10:22.605 so I'm gonna watch nothing but Horn films. And some 0:10:22.645 --> 0:10:25.245 of those films are the movies I watched as I 0:10:25.285 --> 0:10:28.045 was first falling in love with filmmaking. And I think 0:10:28.165 --> 0:10:30.605 it's not a surprise that my voice has been heavily 0:10:30.645 --> 0:10:33.285 influenced by those things. And I think the work of 0:10:33.285 --> 0:10:35.565 the last fifteen years as a filmmaker has been Okay, Now, 0:10:35.804 --> 0:10:37.645 this is where the influence stops, and this is where 0:10:37.645 --> 0:10:41.245 Barry Jenkins begins. And this project gave me just the 0:10:41.285 --> 0:10:42.805 greatest palette to express that. 0:10:43.725 --> 0:10:46.485 NI. At that same Chicago film fest, Q and A. A. 0:10:46.525 --> 0:10:48.564 Trell mentioned one of the central questions in the movie 0:10:48.645 --> 0:10:51.365 being am I a man? What kind of man? 0:10:51.445 --> 0:10:51.765 Am I? 0:10:51.885 --> 0:10:55.725 What defines me? Is it my sexuality? How tough I am, 0:10:55.845 --> 0:10:58.805 how I look? But I recognize I think that that 0:10:58.965 --> 0:11:01.725 identity struggle doesn't just apply to the boys. 0:11:01.765 --> 0:11:01.925 Here. 0:11:01.925 --> 0:11:06.005 There's a certain expectation placed on women like Paula as 0:11:06.205 --> 0:11:08.765 women to be a certain type of mother, and there's 0:11:08.765 --> 0:11:11.125 a lot of baggage associated with that that I don't 0:11:11.165 --> 0:11:12.965 know that most of us think about every day, but 0:11:13.045 --> 0:11:13.765 probably should. 0:11:14.285 --> 0:11:18.125 Yeah. I think you know, that's a really interesting question. 0:11:18.165 --> 0:11:22.445 We haven't actually, we have never gotten that question. 0:11:22.525 --> 0:11:23.204 I apologize. 0:11:23.205 --> 0:11:26.845 I minded spinning like that's a good question. 0:11:27.085 --> 0:11:32.204 What do you think? I think the question is getting 0:11:32.205 --> 0:11:34.804 at something that that's really interesting, which is all these 0:11:34.885 --> 0:11:37.885 characters have a full, full life. It's like the Iceberg 0:11:37.965 --> 0:11:41.324 theory from Himingway. Uh. Because of the pace we tell 0:11:41.325 --> 0:11:44.285 the story yet Chyne's Iceberg, we do reveal all these 0:11:44.285 --> 0:11:46.245 things beneath the surface. It's a part of the character. 0:11:46.325 --> 0:11:48.765 He's pushing everything down and we're like, Okay, we're going 0:11:48.804 --> 0:11:50.645 to take you down there, and we want to see 0:11:50.645 --> 0:11:52.605 the rest of the iceberg. I think with a character 0:11:52.645 --> 0:11:54.885 like Paula, you know, we're not privy to those things, 0:11:55.165 --> 0:11:57.285 but I feel like it's in the performance. And I 0:11:57.285 --> 0:11:59.405 think when we meet her on that very first scene, 0:11:59.445 --> 0:12:02.645 on that porch, you can see all these pressures, all 0:12:02.684 --> 0:12:05.365 these things, you know that that that she has to 0:12:05.445 --> 0:12:09.565 be both for herself and for chirone, and it's a 0:12:09.605 --> 0:12:11.765 lot to deal with, and I think it's part of 0:12:11.804 --> 0:12:16.324 the reason why, you know, the sort of addiction overcomes her, 0:12:16.445 --> 0:12:18.205 you know, I think there's just so much weight. 0:12:18.525 --> 0:12:20.765 Yeah, And I think that weight is there because actually 0:12:21.005 --> 0:12:24.965 that's a good point about mothering, because it takes a 0:12:25.005 --> 0:12:29.084 community to raise a child, and ultimately, what Paula is 0:12:29.125 --> 0:12:30.965 trying to do is do it on her own because 0:12:31.485 --> 0:12:35.445 she's surrounded by so many negative influences, and on top 0:12:35.485 --> 0:12:37.885 of that, she doesn't have the personal resources to be 0:12:37.965 --> 0:12:40.525 able to do that. She hasn't had the good parenting 0:12:40.605 --> 0:12:42.804 model that she needed to be able to parent her 0:12:42.845 --> 0:12:44.325 son on top of all of that. 0:12:44.525 --> 0:12:46.005 So I think it's very and I just love that 0:12:46.045 --> 0:12:48.165 we're in a world where and she has a boy, 0:12:48.405 --> 0:12:50.765 you know, who is not going to be embraced by 0:12:50.804 --> 0:12:54.205 everyone in the community for certain stigmas. 0:12:53.885 --> 0:12:56.564 And that moment that you have really one of the 0:12:56.564 --> 0:12:59.565 most powerful scenes in the film, where you have a 0:12:59.605 --> 0:13:02.285 confrontation with jan That's kind of the undercurrent of that 0:13:02.885 --> 0:13:05.084 whole scene is that it's very easy for him to 0:13:05.165 --> 0:13:07.565 judge and suggests that you should be a certain type 0:13:07.564 --> 0:13:09.605 of mother, but he doesn't actually have the responsibility. 0:13:09.765 --> 0:13:11.925 Yeah, I think it's partly that, and I think it's 0:13:11.965 --> 0:13:15.285 also partly because that's an example for me of how 0:13:15.365 --> 0:13:18.165 Paula has been let down by men so often in 0:13:18.205 --> 0:13:22.205 her life in the past that she can't accept any 0:13:22.245 --> 0:13:24.925 form of help because she's not used to having any 0:13:24.965 --> 0:13:27.525 and if anybody does offer help, it's always because they've 0:13:27.525 --> 0:13:30.245 got an angle they want to take something ultimately, so 0:13:30.285 --> 0:13:33.645 she's very suspicious to that point. Yeah, she's like, what's 0:13:33.725 --> 0:13:35.645 going to come next? Like, what do you want from 0:13:35.684 --> 0:13:36.085 my son? 0:13:36.325 --> 0:13:36.485 Right? 0:13:36.925 --> 0:13:39.045 I want to ask Barry about the casting and the 0:13:39.085 --> 0:13:41.925 directing of the three actors who play the three incarnations 0:13:41.925 --> 0:13:45.525 of Sharon, Alex Hibbert, Ashton Sanders, Travante Rhodes. But I 0:13:45.564 --> 0:13:48.365 first want to ask you, I think you're the only 0:13:48.525 --> 0:13:52.324 direct link between those three characters in terms of seeing 0:13:52.325 --> 0:13:54.925 you in all three stories. What was it like for 0:13:55.005 --> 0:13:59.804 you having to maintain some continuity emotionally and psychologically opposite 0:13:59.885 --> 0:14:00.965 those three different actors. 0:14:01.845 --> 0:14:04.805 I mean, I didn't really find that difficult, because you know, 0:14:05.885 --> 0:14:08.685 I had to have done that research beforehand, in known 0:14:10.125 --> 0:14:13.125 Paula's arc and journey and her history and so on, 0:14:13.564 --> 0:14:16.045 and I just brought that to bear in each of 0:14:16.085 --> 0:14:18.645 the chapters. But I think it really did help having 0:14:19.565 --> 0:14:22.525 charone played by a different acts is because my relationship 0:14:22.565 --> 0:14:25.445 with my three sons those in those three stages is 0:14:25.485 --> 0:14:30.325 fundamentally extraordinarily different, because paul is in such a completely 0:14:30.365 --> 0:14:33.245 different emotional state. It's not just that they've changed just 0:14:33.245 --> 0:14:36.645 because she's almost you know, she's changed dramatically in each 0:14:36.685 --> 0:14:39.325 of those chapters. So I think it helped. 0:14:40.245 --> 0:14:42.485 I was shocked to hear you say, Arry at that 0:14:42.565 --> 0:14:45.725 Q and A that you didn't have those actors interact 0:14:45.805 --> 0:14:48.485 with each other, didn't watch footage of each other. It 0:14:48.565 --> 0:14:50.765 really was shocking to me, just because they're they're not 0:14:50.805 --> 0:14:54.245 only similar in appearance, but they're similar in their physicality 0:14:54.325 --> 0:14:57.485 and their demeanors, how they hold their heads when they're silent, 0:14:57.565 --> 0:14:59.725 which is a key part of these performances. I would 0:14:59.765 --> 0:15:02.365 have assumed exactly the opposite, that you were really meticulous 0:15:02.365 --> 0:15:04.645 about having them study each other. 0:15:04.765 --> 0:15:06.285 So how did you pull that off? 0:15:06.285 --> 0:15:08.325 Because I think it's so crucial that at the end, 0:15:08.325 --> 0:15:10.445 when we see the character Black, we have to see 0:15:10.765 --> 0:15:13.885 little and Chirne in him, and we do. 0:15:14.165 --> 0:15:19.285 There's two words bruh, hocus pocus no. No. You know, 0:15:19.605 --> 0:15:21.965 it's almost like Naomi was just saying, you know, so 0:15:22.085 --> 0:15:24.485 much time passes between each chapter that you know, I 0:15:24.525 --> 0:15:27.045 think there's this commentary in the film of how the 0:15:27.085 --> 0:15:29.485 world shapes us, you know, or how we can allow 0:15:29.565 --> 0:15:31.925 the world to shape us, both for good and for bad. 0:15:32.525 --> 0:15:34.965 And so I wanted to show, or to illustrate in 0:15:35.045 --> 0:15:37.685 the physical embodiment of this character that the world has 0:15:37.685 --> 0:15:39.845 made him a different person. So I wanted to cast 0:15:40.205 --> 0:15:42.565 different actors, you know, to play the same person, and 0:15:42.645 --> 0:15:44.925 I didn't want them to physically mimic one another, you know, 0:15:44.965 --> 0:15:47.205 I didn't want them to try to carry the performance 0:15:47.245 --> 0:15:50.245 that came before and to their performance, because again, I 0:15:50.245 --> 0:15:53.365 wanted to show just how different the world can make us, 0:15:53.405 --> 0:15:55.165 how the world can shape us if we allow it, 0:15:55.165 --> 0:15:57.565 and if we don't have this nurturing you know that 0:15:57.605 --> 0:16:00.045 we see in the first story that isn't present in 0:16:00.085 --> 0:16:03.485 the second and the third stories. But and yet at 0:16:03.485 --> 0:16:07.405 the same time, there is a continuity, you know, amongst 0:16:07.405 --> 0:16:09.245 those three young men. And I'm sure when we were 0:16:09.245 --> 0:16:11.405 casting them, we were trying to find this feeling, you know, 0:16:11.485 --> 0:16:14.765 the soulfulness, because I think there's this idea of spiritual 0:16:14.765 --> 0:16:17.085 transference in the film. It's why the swimming scene, you know, 0:16:17.245 --> 0:16:19.325 is the way it is. You know, there's this transference 0:16:19.365 --> 0:16:22.685 between one in little in that scene. And it felt 0:16:22.685 --> 0:16:25.005 like if you could look into Travante Rose's eyes and 0:16:25.045 --> 0:16:28.285 you could still see Ashton Sanders, still see Alex Hibbert, 0:16:28.365 --> 0:16:31.125 that you would feel like this character has changed. Yes, 0:16:31.205 --> 0:16:34.085 he's a different person, but he's still He's still in there, 0:16:34.125 --> 0:16:36.125 you know. And I think it's interesting because you know, 0:16:36.125 --> 0:16:38.005 we're trying to create this journey for Travante and the 0:16:38.005 --> 0:16:41.125 third story where he is the characters crawled so deep 0:16:41.165 --> 0:16:44.365 inside and buried himself so deep inside that the work 0:16:44.445 --> 0:16:47.645 Travante is doing aided by you know, Andre Holland and 0:16:47.765 --> 0:16:50.405 Kevin is to slowly dig his way back out to 0:16:50.445 --> 0:16:52.365 the surface, and I want to do that. I thought 0:16:52.365 --> 0:16:54.925 it was it would be best, you know, to literally 0:16:55.045 --> 0:16:57.005 have the character embodied by a different person. 0:16:57.285 --> 0:17:01.445 Yeah, how confident were you in your decision to did 0:17:01.485 --> 0:17:02.685 not have them mirror each other at all? 0:17:02.725 --> 0:17:03.965 Did you ever have doubts about that? 0:17:04.205 --> 0:17:06.205 Yeah? You know. So, you know, we shot them with 0:17:06.325 --> 0:17:08.445 me mostly in sequence. You know, we did a story one, 0:17:08.485 --> 0:17:10.645 story two, story three. The only overlap was when Naomi 0:17:10.685 --> 0:17:12.885 showed up because she had visa issues. We did all 0:17:12.885 --> 0:17:15.805 her work in three days. But other than that, that 0:17:15.885 --> 0:17:18.325 was the only time those three days when the main 0:17:18.405 --> 0:17:20.205 characters jumped, you know, I had to work with all 0:17:20.205 --> 0:17:22.885 of them. So Travante shows up and does his first 0:17:22.925 --> 0:17:26.165 two days and because of the way the shoot was scheduled, 0:17:26.205 --> 0:17:28.165 his first two days, I mean and Travante. 0:17:27.845 --> 0:17:28.925 Roads this is radio all say. 0:17:29.285 --> 0:17:32.005 He is just just hulking, you know, like you know, 0:17:32.205 --> 0:17:35.365 five to eleven, two hundred twenty pound guy, like two 0:17:36.005 --> 0:17:38.925 percent body fact, just like ripped. And his first two 0:17:39.005 --> 0:17:42.205 days he's walking around in his boxes like working out, 0:17:42.325 --> 0:17:45.165 and he's like, you know, on the phone and count money. 0:17:45.205 --> 0:17:47.845 And it was like it was like really jarring departure 0:17:47.885 --> 0:17:50.925 from this real thin teenager you know that we worked 0:17:50.925 --> 0:17:53.405 with before, which was Ashton Sanders, whose shoulders are always 0:17:53.405 --> 0:17:56.085 trooped and he was always like kind of sad and brooding. 0:17:57.005 --> 0:18:00.165 And I thought, man, did we go too far? Because 0:18:00.205 --> 0:18:03.005 it was so jarring going from working with Ashton to 0:18:03.045 --> 0:18:05.485 working with Travante. And then we did the phone call 0:18:05.805 --> 0:18:09.525 where Travante call or Kevin calls, and Black picks up 0:18:09.525 --> 0:18:12.245 the phone and it's just Travante in the room and 0:18:12.245 --> 0:18:15.045 Andre Holland's voice is actually on the phone, and I 0:18:15.045 --> 0:18:18.645 can see Travante just breaking and just so this huge, 0:18:18.685 --> 0:18:22.485 hulking guy, just so sensitive, vulnerable. And after the first 0:18:22.485 --> 0:18:24.485 take I looked at him, I said, that's why you 0:18:24.525 --> 0:18:26.685 got the part, and I was like, okay, we're on 0:18:26.765 --> 0:18:29.165 the right track certainly, but but for those that day 0:18:29.205 --> 0:18:32.805 and a half, I was like, oh, man, but but 0:18:32.805 --> 0:18:34.325 but but then I said in the audience, and I 0:18:34.365 --> 0:18:36.885 see the audience have the same reaction he comes from screening, 0:18:36.965 --> 0:18:40.285 and sometimes the audience will go yeah, like literally it 0:18:40.325 --> 0:18:43.565 takes the breath because they just the gasp, this is 0:18:43.605 --> 0:18:45.605 what this is what the world is done to this guy, 0:18:45.685 --> 0:18:45.845 you know. 0:18:46.045 --> 0:18:48.885 Yeah, But then when we when we see him at 0:18:48.885 --> 0:18:52.525 the diner sitting across from Kevin, and we see we 0:18:52.565 --> 0:18:55.445 see chirone in him in those moments, then I think 0:18:55.445 --> 0:18:55.885