1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, 3 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: as always so much for joining us. Let's give a 4 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: shout out to our fellow moon Man of Positive Lunatic 5 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: super producer, mister Max Williams. 6 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 3: A lunatic. Get it like lunar? A lunar. Yeah, that's good, 7 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 3: it's good. Remember I remember that band. I think they 8 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 3: are like a riot crow band called the Lunatics. That's 9 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: I do. That's fine. I'm Noel, your Ben. We're having 10 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 3: fun talking about moon rocks, talking about people stealing them, misbehaving. 11 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 3: Episode one was pretty much all about the history of 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: moon rocks and their placed in American culture and Tricky 13 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: Dicky Nixon messing things up, you know, causing some of 14 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 3: them to go missing. But that wasn't exactly a heist. 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 3: That was more a case of incompetence and people just 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 3: kind of having some oopsis and losing the moon rocks. 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: The what were they called, Ben, Goodwill moon rocks. 18 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: Previously on Ridiculous History, we discussed everything that you've excellently 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: recapped their nol the good will moon rocks given out 20 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: during the Tricky Dick administration, there were two hundred and 21 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: seventy of these very small samples of lunar material taken 22 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: by the Apollo missions, given out often unilaterally by the 23 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: President of the time, Richard Nixon. However, as we learned previously, 24 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: not only were a bunch of those mislaid, stolen or 25 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: simply lost, there was a guy who's a real hero, 26 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: a real Indiana Jones, who has been hunting these down 27 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: for the good grace of the United States. That's the 28 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: ex US Military Intelligence Officer NAS investigator Joseph Gutes. And 29 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: now in part two, we're getting to something we and 30 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: our pal Jordan liked to call sex on. 31 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: The moon, which is not just a bangingly delicious cocktail 32 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: that should exist. If it doesn't, what would be in 33 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: that moon juice? That's not a thing. We'll workshop that one. 34 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 3: We have indeed arrived at what our buddy Jr. Describes 35 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: as the most famous instance of missing and misused moon rocks. 36 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: In July of two thousand and two, a guy named 37 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: fad Fattius Roberts. I'm adding the fattiest boy do I 38 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: hope that is short for Thadeus, twenty five year old 39 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: intern in NASA's elite cooperative education program orchestrates boldly goes, 40 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 3: but not to space. He goes into a life of 41 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: crime in the form of a heist that will go 42 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 3: down in history, at least the history of NASA. The 43 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 3: theft of seventeen pounds of Apollo moon rocks. Valued and 44 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: here we go. We promised it. Here it is valued. 45 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: It between seven million and twenty one million US dollars 46 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 3: plus BLUs for good measure of Martian mediaite. 47 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was gonna say, but wait, there's more. A 48 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: meteorite were at It descended from Mars. 49 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 50 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: This guy, Thad Roberts, who we mentioned in part one. 51 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: He's you know, he's mid twenties. He's up and coming. 52 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: He's looking at the vast chasms of space, the deep ink, 53 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: and the world in which we revolve, And he says 54 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: why not. So he has a girlfriend. This is a 55 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: romance story. She is also an intern at NASA. Her 56 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: name is Tiffany Fowler. And they pick up in accomplice 57 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: who is also an intern. This is Shay soer So 58 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: like last name sore Sour, like the end of Dinosaur 59 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: spelled a little different. They use their work ideas and 60 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: the trust of their cohorts and superiors to steal these 61 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: priceless materials. They get the codes for the locks, they 62 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: rewire the surveillance, and they they've got I'll say it, 63 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: absolutely lunar balls. They get a lot of hutsban this. 64 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: They do something that is positively cinematic. It's a six 65 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: hundred and one pounds safe and at first get this, 66 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: NASA doesn't even realize they got got. 67 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they definitely approached this with mission impossible 68 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: levels of planning. You got to give him credit for that, 69 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 3: But boy, what a stupid thing to do. And we're 70 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 3: going to get more into that because the plan ultimately 71 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: failed because Thad's levels of confidence seemed to exceed his 72 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 3: criminal prowess and he ended up spending years behind bars. 73 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: Right, and the old poet Burns would say, man's reach 74 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: must exceed his grasp. Else what's a heaven for? Unfortunately, 75 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: you cannot plead that in a US court. Let's go 76 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: to New York Times journalist Ben Mesrich. He wrote a 77 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: book about this, and he called it Sex on the Moon. 78 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: In an interview with CBS News in twenty twelve, he 79 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 2: said that Roberts is the most complicated person I've ever 80 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: written about. He's an incredibly complex character. And I've written 81 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: about Mark Zuckerberg. I've always been writing about these genius 82 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 2: kids who live in that gray area between right and wrong. 83 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: And here's this kid who basically does a one hundred 84 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: yard sprint through that gray area right into the black 85 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: area to your point earlier. In all the black area 86 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: I think means. 87 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: Crime, I would think. So. Have you seen the new 88 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: Alien series on Hulu, Ben, Alien Earth? 89 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: Not yet? I'm very excited. 90 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: It's good and there's a really awesome character who's like 91 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: exactly what is being described here, the kind of overly educated, 92 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: perhaps gifted, with a little too much power and confidence. 93 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 3: And he's got the best name. He's referred to often 94 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: as the boy genius, but his name is the Boy Cavalier, 95 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: and I just I love everything about it. Some people 96 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 3: are all iffy about the series, but I'm into it 97 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: so far. But similarly complex character who himself tends to 98 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: dip his toe in that black area. So prior to 99 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: his incarceration, Roberts aspired to be an astronaut like you, Ben, 100 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: Maybe not a werewolf fashionaut, but an astronaut just the same. 101 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: In addition to earning a triple degree in physics, geology, 102 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: and geophysics at the University of Utah, he was also 103 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: a licensed pilot and a scuba diver, which will come 104 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: into play in the order of events regarding the heists. 105 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and with all these bona fides, he is entered 106 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: into NASA's co Op program. Now, no, I know you 107 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: always wanted to go to Space Camp. I would say, 108 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: cut past Space Camp and go to this program. It's 109 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: pretty prestigious. 110 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: It absolutely is. It only accepts six percent of applicants. 111 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: That's quite an elite number there. Despite his impressive accomplishments, 112 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 3: Roberts was super shy, didn't possess the most high levels 113 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 3: of people's skills. He was also quite insecure. He went 114 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: through a bit of a tough upbringing where he was 115 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 3: disowned by, as you may have gathered from the University 116 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 3: of Utah, his de out Mormon family when they discovered 117 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: that he had had premarital sex with his then girlfriend, 118 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: which is a megan. No, now, so he was, you know, 119 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: borderline shunned. That's not I know that's a that's an 120 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: amish thing, but I think the term still applies here. 121 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was in a tough spot. And in 122 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: this tough spot, he meets Tiffany Fowler, the other intern 123 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier. She is twenty two years old. He 124 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: is on a late night beach. Hag. It's the perfect 125 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: meet cute. He will later go on to tell the 126 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: La Times in two thousand and four the following when 127 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: I met Tiffany, says Roberts. We talked for fourteen hours straight. 128 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: She was blonde, blue eyed, of very toned. She was 129 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 2: way out of my league. She was a former cheerleader. 130 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: And at the time she is interning at NASA's Tissue 131 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: Culture Laboratory. They're conducting stem cell research. Please, let's all 132 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: remember that NASA does a lot of astonishing, very important science. 133 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: They both dig each other. Tiffany Fowler later goes on 134 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: to say, this guy is very intelligent. He's pretty much 135 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: good at everything. To your point, Noel, I think that 136 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: triple degree would argue the same. So look, they meet 137 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: up and they have a great time. And then later 138 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: our buddy Tad, just like a few weeks after their 139 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: meet coot on the night beach, he moves in to 140 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: Tiffany's apartment and he says he's been pretty consistent about this. 141 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: He says he wanted to do this Moon Rock and 142 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: Martian heist as a romantic gesture. It's not about the money. 143 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: It's because I love you. 144 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. It seems quite misplayed, wrapped up in some of 145 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: the complexities of this individual's upbringing and that perfect storm 146 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: of insecurity and intelligence. It's very odd. It's an odd 147 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 3: thing to you know. I'm all about a grand gesture 148 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 3: when it comes to the ways of romance, but this 149 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: just seems quite ill informed and very specific. 150 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: And he again, back to the La Times interview, our 151 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: buddy Thad says, I was in love with Tiffany in 152 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: my mind. I was thinking, to your point, all about 153 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: misplaced good intentions. He says, literally, I was thinking, baby, 154 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 2: I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic 155 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: start to our relationship. 156 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: What is he like a character and the Honeymooners. He's 157 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 3: just like, maybe I'd give you that moon. And it 158 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: just sounds like something like a fifty sitcom star would say. 159 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: It's also an appeal to emotion that does it really 160 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: deliver because later research would prove that that Roberts came 161 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: up with this plan to steal lunar material and sell 162 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: it to her private collector months before the meet cute 163 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: at night on the beach. She's just kind of convenient 164 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: for this, you know. 165 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what Okay, I'm with this, La Times writer. 166 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 3: This is indeed a complex character. 167 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 2: A little bit sociopathic. 168 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: I think so too. And let's also, you know, to 169 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: your point bend exercise a little empathy. I would argue 170 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: the literalness of a lot of these things implies a 171 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 3: position somewhere on the far end of the spectrum. 172 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: I hear you. Yeah, he did have a buyer lined up, 173 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 2: which we'll get to in a moment. And in later 174 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: conversations postbust, by the way, obviously Thad gets busted. In 175 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: later conversations, he gets confronted with proof that there was 176 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: a financial rather than romantic motivation here, at least at 177 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: the beginning. And he sticks with the story, right, He 178 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: sticks with the story of a lover gone wrong. And 179 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: he said, in my own head, stealing something wasn't the 180 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: way I looked at it. We weren't going to take 181 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: this money we're getting from it to go buy a 182 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: yacht or lots of cars or a big house. We 183 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,359 Speaker 2: were going to live just the small kind of lifestyle, 184 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: but fun science that might change the world, you. 185 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 3: Know, soleusions of grandeur much holy cow, this dude. It's 186 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 3: probably a good time to note that between their first 187 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: meetings and the night of the theft, robertson Tiffany had 188 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 3: known each other for all of about three weeks. When 189 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 3: asked about this, Roberts explained, I don't think that kind 190 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 3: of connection that people really desire requires much time. Okay, 191 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: love at first sight kind of cat a real hopeless 192 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: romantic when you know, you know, Okay, I don't know 193 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 3: about that. So let's get into what's the plot. The scheme, 194 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 3: as Jordan puts it, one dumb step for man beautiful. 195 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: So our buddy Thad is moved in with this lady's Mett, 196 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: Tiffany Fowler, and he tells her, beb, I love you. 197 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: I got this idea. Let's steal you know, rocks but 198 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: like moon rocks, and she goes, oh my god, be byeb. 199 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: They're also now all of a sudden they have transmorphed 200 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 3: into the Californians, which I am here for. 201 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, And we are not giving you accurate impressions. 202 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 2: We're doing impressions that we find. 203 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 3: Hilarious impressions of impressions, at least the impressions that exist 204 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 3: in our mind of what these people may or may 205 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: not have sounded like, Yeah, what is that thing that 206 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: that Joker movie that tanked that phenomenon where two people 207 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: kind of make each other co crazy folly a dude, 208 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 3: that's the wine. I think there's a bit of that 209 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: going on here, because she was not a passive bystander 210 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: and all that, she was not just the object of 211 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: this bonker's you know, grand gesture of affection. She urged 212 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 3: him on. Not only did she urge him on, she 213 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: offered to be his accomplice. 214 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not a sidekick, a co conspirator. And they 215 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: did have a good case in that they weren't planning 216 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: to harm anyone. They weren't planning to injure people. They 217 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: weren't planning to you know, do headshots or anything like that. 218 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: And the rationalized they rationalized this mission by saying, look, 219 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: these rocks had already been contaminated, right, so maybe they 220 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: aren't worthwhile to science, to scientific research and in depth. 221 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: And I'm gonna be honest, as former President Biden was 222 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: wont to say, that's malarkey. 223 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: Malarkey. Indeed. I mean, sure, one person's space trash is 224 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: another person's space treasure. But like you said, Ben, all 225 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: of this appears to be some pretty circular reasoning trying 226 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 3: to justify, you know, doing a crime. So on one 227 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 3: rainy Saturday evening in July of two thousand and two, Roberts, 228 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 3: Tiffany Fowler, and Shay Souer pulled up to Houston's Johnson's 229 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: Space Center in a Jeep Cherokee Classic heightst vehicle. If 230 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: you ask me, The guard recognized Roberts as he was 231 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 3: a known entity around there and the fact that this 232 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: wasn't his normal vehicle, So he inquired, quite reasonably, you 233 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: get a new call and this guy's from Boston, No, sir, 234 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: he responded, that's that I borrowed. It's to help a 235 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,119 Speaker 3: friend move. 236 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: And that guy's Matt Berry. 237 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: Playing question, that's the only impression that. 238 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: So if this helps our Bostonian not really Bustonian security 239 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: guard wave them through and the accomplices get to Building 240 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: thirty one and this is where allegedly they begin rewiring 241 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: the security cameras. Good question, though, how did they do that? 242 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: How did they know where the cameras were Anyway, fast 243 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: forwarding through this, their accomplice Shay is waiting in the 244 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: car keeping an eye on these rewired cameras, and Tiffany 245 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: and Thad into the building. They use a key code 246 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: that they got from a former coworker, and then they 247 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: don't this is so cool, Mexican. We get some heist music, 248 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: make it real, mission impossible, Ocean's eleven perfect, So they 249 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: get this. They put on neopering bodysuits so that they 250 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: won't admit heat that would set off a thermal alarm, 251 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: and the rocks are kept in an airless vacuum. So 252 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: this is where the scuba stuff you mentioned earlier comes in. Noel, 253 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: they bring along breathing paraphernalia from Thad Roberts scuba gear. 254 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: I just got to say, at this point, ethics aside, 255 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: I'm impressed. 256 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: I'm impressed too. The rewiring of the cameras alone hadn't me. Unfortunately, 257 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: by the time they entered the room with the rocks, 258 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 3: they only had about three minutes to figure out how 259 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 3: to crack the safe before they had run out of 260 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 3: oxygen from those breathing apparatuses. The clock is indeed ticking. 261 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: They decided to simply load the entire six This reminds 262 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: me of like someone's stealing an ATM, you know, figure 263 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 3: out what to do with it. Later, six pounds safe 264 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 3: onto a dolly and wheeled it out to their car. 265 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 2: What could go wrong? 266 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, this was literally sagging the suspension of the gene. 267 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So the jeep is dragging, and they make 268 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: it by the security right, because they've already been allowed in, 269 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 2: it's easier to get out, right, And so two days 270 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 2: later it takes a full forty eight hours, NASA notices, Hey, 271 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 2: our six hundred and one pounds safe is not where 272 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: it was earlier. What could have happened? They look around, 273 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler left, no fingerprints, no hair, no 274 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 2: security footage, Shay is a ghost. And in the wind 275 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: they pulled off the perfect heist. And then they get romantic. 276 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: They drive to the Houston suburb of Clear Lake. 277 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 3: This is the moment in the movie where the star 278 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: crossed lovers who have just like robbed a bank or 279 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 3: something get it on in a pile of cash, only 280 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: a much nerd your version, much nerdier they at least. 281 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 3: Sad says in an interview that once they finally cracked 282 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 3: open the safe. Took them a while. He knew what 283 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: they had to do. He says, I take some of 284 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 3: the moon rocks and I put them underneath the blanket 285 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: on the bed, and then we made love. 286 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: I never said anything, but I'm sure she could feel it, 287 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: this guy, but she's crazy. 288 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: I bet she could feel it. 289 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: Princess and the Peace story, Yeah, oh geez, he said. 290 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: It was more about the symbol of what we were doing, 291 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: basically having sex on the moon. It's more uncomfortable than not. 292 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: But it wasn't about the comfort at that point. It 293 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 2: was about the expression. 294 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 3: The psycho this guy is nuts. Come on, I'm sorry, 295 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: I'm not mental health shaming here, but this dude is unwell. 296 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: And no, he's great at yoga. Can you imagine patting 297 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: your back that consistently. 298 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's exactly right. But we're seeing a lot 299 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: of these delusions of grandeur. We're seeing a lot of 300 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: these just absolute you know, the moments of megalomania and delusion, 301 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 3: pure delusion, not just of grandeur. So once that deed 302 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 3: that you know, Rocky uncomfortable deed had been artistic expression, 303 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 3: fair enough, I'm sure they had to get some kinks 304 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 3: out of their backs, and also no kink shaming here. 305 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 3: Of doing it on moon rocks is your thing. By 306 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: all means, go with God, just don't steal them from 307 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 3: the government. It was, in fact now time to fence 308 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 3: the stolen moon rocks, including the lightly sullied ones, the 309 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: sext ones lightly sext. 310 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: Which bite fetch a higher price. I don't know, maybe 311 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: after the fact, maybe maybe. Yeah. So there's this guy 312 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: that is going to function as their fence. His name 313 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 2: is Gordon mcward and Jordan just absolutely loves this guy's name. 314 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: So they go to a mineralogy website and they list 315 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: the these pieces of lunar material for between two thousand 316 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: and eight thousand, gray four less dollars. 317 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: Priceless stolen moon rocks. Nothing to see here, folks, don't 318 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: don't don't dig too deep. Everything's above board. We assure you. 319 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: They didn't say stolen. 320 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, where else are they gonna come from? 321 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: This is in the midst of a moon rock heist, 322 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 3: unless these were some of the remaining a good will 323 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 3: moon rocks that had surfaced. But as we know, our 324 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 3: dogged investigator of the moon rock whatever Society he would 325 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: have known. It just seems like a real boneheaded thing 326 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,959 Speaker 3: to advertise this in a public forum. 327 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 2: My guy, check out the pseudonym that Gordon mcwarter real 328 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: Dave Gordon mcwater used this pseudonym. Are you ready orb Robinson? 329 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 3: Orb? 330 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? 331 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: I would have gone with Roy Orbison. That would have 332 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: been final. 333 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 2: I think that's where they were coming pretty soon. 334 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: They were We're all going to be crying. 335 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 2: Right right? Yeah? Oh manh yeah. And I guess that 336 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: would say that it was all for a pretty woman. 337 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: If you have an interest and if you have an 338 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 2: interest the the listing reads in purchasing a rare and 339 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 2: historically significant piece of the moon, and would like more information, 340 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: then please contact me by email and leave your contact 341 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 2: information and an explanation of your interest. Sincerely, orb So bad, 342 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: It's bad, so bad. Oh, it's so like not good 343 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: operational security. 344 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 3: It just seems like up to this point they'd done 345 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 3: everything so relatively smartly, aside from the you know, moonrock 346 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: sex being a little odd and I'm not really having 347 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: a plan to crack the safe, but they got out 348 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 3: of there. They were kind of free and clear at 349 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: this point. How do we get them, busted man, that's 350 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: what I I want to know. 351 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, there's a Belgian mineral collector named Axel Emmerman, 352 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: and he reaches out. He responds to Orb, and Orb 353 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 2: says the following, H and folks, ridiculous historians. You listen 354 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: to this and tell us if it sounds suspicious to you. 355 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 2: H Noel, can you do the honors on this quotation? 356 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: This response, as you well know, it is illegal to 357 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: sell Apollo lunar rocks in the United States, as obviously 358 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 3: has not discouraged me since I live in the United States. However, 359 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 3: I must be cautious that this deal is handled with 360 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: the utmost delicacy in that I am not publicly exposed. Terrible, 361 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 3: terrible buddy, buddy buddy. I mean, tell yourself, why don't 362 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: you right now? I'm your quotation is amazing. I'm saying, buddy, buddy, 363 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 3: buddy to our boy or Broubison or whatever. The frick 364 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 3: Ammerman is understandably completely weirded out by this. The price 365 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 3: is also much lower than anything that would be considered 366 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: above board should possibly be for such an artifact. So 367 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: he contacted the FBI, like you do. Who at this 368 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 3: point had already gotten the word from NASA about the 369 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: stolen goods. 370 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: Don't doom, don't dum dum dum doom. 371 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 3: Doom, seriously bone headed stuff. 372 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: So undercover agents decide to pose as the American relatives 373 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: of Axel Emmerman, and they say, okay, we're going to 374 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 2: meet up with you on July twentieth, two thousand and two, 375 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: and we hope to god it wasn't olive Garden and 376 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: that they got bottomless breadsticks. Of course, when you're there, 377 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: your family. When you're there, your family. So coincidentally, this 378 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: was also the thirty third anniversary of the moon landing 379 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 2: the Apollo eleven mission. So that Roberts arrives at this 380 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: Italian restaurant and he is a little bit tired because 381 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 2: he's been driving from Houston to Florida. It's a long drive, 382 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: and he he makes a joke because again he's not 383 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: the brightest crayon in the box. He says, I'm just 384 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: hoping you don't have a wire on you. 385 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 3: Kuck kuck. FBI agent Lynn Billings, who set across from 386 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: him at the restaurant, was indeed wearing a wire, capturing 387 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 3: his hilarious tone deaf line for posterity. Despite this, audio 388 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 3: recordings of the meeting revealed that Roberts and his accomplices 389 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 3: were completely taken in by the rousse. 390 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: No you think, oh this sounds great. You guys, so 391 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: you're related to Emmerman, You're related to Axel Immerman. You 392 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: know what, can we get some more Brett six? Yeah, 393 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: like as a kid. 394 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: So Roberts admitted that he was so excited that he 395 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 3: couldn't even finish his bottomless bread sticks. He only had 396 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: one round of bread sticks. And McWhorter even tipped a 397 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 3: waitress thirty dollars just to cheer her up, just to 398 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: make her have a brighter day. Remember these are also 399 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 3: interns in their early twenties, giving off mega early twenties energy. 400 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: The undercover agents accompany the group back to their room 401 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 3: at the Sheridan, of course, of course, the old, the 402 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 3: famous Orlando Sheridan, home to many acon to Sechacan like 403 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: a conference and also cons apparently soon surfee anyhow, which 404 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 3: were being kept the goods that is, in a tackle box. 405 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 3: And that's when Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler, and Gordon McWhorter 406 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: were arrested on the spot. 407 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 2: Ah for theft of government property and interstate transportation of 408 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: said property of stolen goods. They got swarmed by forty 409 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: federal agents. Armed agents. By the way, helicopters were coming in. 410 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 2: The freeway got shut down just in case they were 411 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: clever enough to have a burner car. And the person 412 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier, Shay Sower, who did not go with him, 413 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: was arrested later that very same day in Houston, Texas. Now, 414 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 2: our buddy that Roberts consummate romantic, as he said, he's 415 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 2: jammed up in a Florida jail for sixteen months, a 416 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: waiting trial, and he's a waiting trial because he called 417 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: his parents for help with the bail money and his 418 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: parents said no. 419 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 3: I mean, he was already kind of on their shiit 420 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 3: list for that premarital sex snapper right that they did 421 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 3: not approve of, and they had apparently said to him previously. 422 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 3: I don't know how this comes up, but I guess 423 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: it does that if any of his children ever got 424 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 3: into jail, he would make sure they stayed there as 425 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 3: long as possible, and then he was basically getting what 426 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 3: he deserved. 427 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Thad Roberts claims that he wrote a novel 428 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 2: about his time. We looked into it. It has not 429 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 2: been widely published, but perhaps we can read it. One day, 430 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 2: the FBI went and searched Thad roberts apartment to see 431 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: if there were any more stolen moon rocks. And you 432 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: know what they found, Not moon rocks, but fossils that 433 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: he had stolen from his time at the Utah Museum 434 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: of Natural History. 435 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: This guy's just insatiable in his thirst for stealing historical artifacts. 436 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently he was called a master manipulator in 437 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: October two thousand and three. Yeah, we don't think he's 438 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: that great. No, we don't think he is. 439 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: This is the court rhetoric. 440 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Judge and c Conway calls him that she 441 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: doubles the sentence seen guideline and knocks them up for 442 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: eight years in the federal pin. The other two accomplices, 443 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: Tiffany Fowler Chaiseauer, are given more lenient sentences because they cooperate. 444 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 3: Imagine this must have probably put it into their astronautical 445 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: career pursuits, or at least Tiffany's. 446 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: I love the idea that there might be some black 447 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: bag NASA contingent, right, that that pulls you out of 448 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: the pen and says, you're exactly what we're looking for. 449 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: We're putting you together with a team of oil drillers. 450 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, or like the slow horses in the British 451 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 4: that's like where the all the really crappy disgraced agents go. 452 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 4: You know, yeah that are podcasting right, So, uh, these 453 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: these other two accomplices, their sentence is much reduced. They 454 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 4: get one hundred and eighty days of house arrest, which 455 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 4: honestly sounds kind of fun. And then they get one 456 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 4: hundred and fifty hours of community service, which is a 457 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 4: good thing you should do anyway. You should always try 458 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: to help out the community around you. And then they're 459 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 4: on probation for three years. 460 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: Not too bad, not too shabby. But again they got 461 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: a record probably not ever gonna be able to work 462 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: in the sciences. Dare we say ever again? 463 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, they're going to be on the 464 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 2: slow horses end of that for sure. 465 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. And the FBI actually explained in a press release 466 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 3: the severity of the incident, saying that the young thieves 467 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 3: did more than just try to sell off a collection 468 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: of lunar samples in the process. And this is funny 469 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: because this is referenced by fat himself as a justification, 470 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 3: saying this was not true and didn't matter. In the process, 471 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 3: the FBI said, they also contaminated them, making them virtually 472 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: useless to the scientific community. So I don't know that 473 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 3: justification maybe didn't hold water, or it was very much 474 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 3: what it was, just just that a justification, because who 475 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 3: is he to say? It's another one of those moments 476 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: of just like, I know better, and therefore it's something 477 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 3: you see all the time in sociopathic behavior, someone thinking 478 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 3: that they are the ultimate authority on what's right and 479 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 3: what's wrong, and they have their own kind of code. 480 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten research notes 481 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 3: by a NASA scientist. Didn't talk about this that, did you? 482 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 3: That had been locked in the safe. 483 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all wondering about the fourth guy, Gordon mcward. 484 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: Gordon got jammed up hard, Okay, he got sentenced to 485 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: six years in prison, and he was, in our opinion, 486 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: rightly pissed about this. He would later go on to 487 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: state quote, I use the Internet for two hours and 488 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 2: got six years. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a college 489 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: kid who got caught up in a glorified fraternity prank. 490 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 3: Jeez Jesus, these folks are so good at justification, shall 491 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: I say, rather bad at justification. 492 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll have to ask them. We also want 493 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 2: to note that two other significant pieces of NASA history 494 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: were missing at the time of the crime. They are 495 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: not recovered as we record today. The first is you'll 496 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 2: love this or your friend who doesn't believe in the 497 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: moon Noel will love this. The original videotapes of the 498 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine Apollo eleven lunar landing proof are are gone. 499 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: Proof positive that doesn't exist. They don't want they don't 500 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 3: want you to know. If you had the videotapes, you'd 501 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 3: be able to see Kubrick in the background framing up 502 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: the shot. 503 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: I love that joke from Mitchell and Webb. The idea 504 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: is that Kubrick is such an odd tour that he 505 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: faked the moon landing, but he had to go to 506 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: the Moon to fake it. 507 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like something Christopher Nolan would do. There's all 508 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 3: these jokes about him actually detonating an atomic bomb to 509 00:32:59,320 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 3: make op. 510 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: And yeah, just to keep it accurate and due to 511 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 2: oh the other thing missing. Six folders of more mysterious 512 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: content supposedly in that safe. Would that be the handwritten 513 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: notes referred to by NASA authorities, We don't know. Thad 514 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: Roberts claims he never saw him, and that Roberts is 515 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: never going to walk on the moon. He can never 516 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: become an astronaut. Things did not work out with him 517 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 2: and Tiffany Fowler. He also was get this, folks, married 518 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: to someone else during the entire time. The person he 519 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: was married to was a resident of Utah when that 520 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: went to NASA in Houston, Texas, and she filed for 521 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: divorce as soon as the story hit the news. Ultimately, 522 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: your buddy fed is serving six years at the Federal 523 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: correct Institution in Florence, Colorado. And then he writes a 524 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 2: thesis of five hundred page thesis and we would just 525 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: love to give you the title, folks. It is available 526 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: now on Amazon. 527 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and let me just say that is nobody's buddy. 528 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 2: That sucks. 529 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, he's just boil boy everything. All the worst 530 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 3: parts of like elitism and privilege represents it here and 531 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 3: just this idea that like, no, no, no, this is 532 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 3: totally I'm doing God's work here. I am the one 533 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 3: that's going to forward science with my very very selfish acts. 534 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 2: Guys, I read about the Bible, and you know what 535 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 2: I figured out. I'm Jesus, actually says every cult leader. Yeah, uh, Noel. 536 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: Can you give us the title of this prison thesis? 537 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, super humble title here, five hundred page thesis 538 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 3: entitled Einstein's Intuition Visualizing an eleven dimensional Framework of Nature 539 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 3: an Introduction to Quantum Space Theory, which you can now 540 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 3: get as an ebook on Amazon if you wish. 541 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 2: And he was a model prisoner. He did get a 542 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: telescope and he taught an astronomy class while in the pen. 543 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: Why are we speaking in past tense, Well, that's because 544 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: that Roberts was released from prison in early two thousand 545 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: and eight and has become a theoretical physicist. Has Ah 546 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 2: has straightened up his life. And well, folks, let's see 547 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 2: what you make of his quotation to NBC News when 548 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: he was asked about his previous crimes. 549 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 3: Well, jeez, Ben, I guess this totally goes against my 550 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 3: theory that all of these folks would be completely shunned 551 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: by the scientific community. We will, however, say that these 552 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: federal convictions would prohibit him from ever becoming a NASA 553 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 3: astronaut again, but he had this to say, I, like 554 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 3: many others, am filled with awe and I reflect upon 555 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 3: how those rocks demonstrate humanity's limitless potential. Is this what 556 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 3: he said to the parole board. This is great, but 557 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 3: that awe does not live within those rocks. It belongs 558 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 3: to all of us. From experience, I can say that 559 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 3: there are more appropriate and more productive ways to come 560 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 3: face to face with our magnificent insignificance than stealing a 561 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 3: piece of the moon. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes. 562 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 2: Convince it. 563 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: I know I'm a little skeptic. 564 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: I'm a little skeptical to be. 565 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 3: I saw you, I saw that very reasonable. Irol you're 566 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 3: not really. 567 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 2: I mean look, he also gets asked about whether or 568 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 2: not he can become an astronaut, and based on our 569 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 2: previous conversation these past two episodes, you can tell that 570 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 2: Noel Max and yours truly are what we would call 571 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 2: big skeptic about this. However, Thad Roberts remains optimistic and maybe, 572 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: listening to this podcast today, said the following, anything's possible. 573 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 2: I think it's gonna still make a run for space. 574 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 2: The private industry is still maybe going on. This might 575 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 2: be the big thing of our lifetime, and if it is, 576 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to find a way to go. 577 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: Maybe I can pick up a moon rock legally this time, 578 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 2: one that I can keep put on my mantle and 579 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: not have to keep it a secret. 580 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 3: Well, Ben, we didn't even talk about this. I mean, 581 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 3: one of the biggest space programs around Private is run 582 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 3: by a pretty outwardly megalomaniacal creep. So maybe he and 583 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 3: Saddle I'll get along just fine. I'm just saying the 584 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 3: idea of like NASA being the only path to space 585 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 3: is no longer the case, and we are living in 586 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 3: a time where bona fides are less and less important 587 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 3: and it's more about kind of who you know looking 588 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 3: at you, Katie Perry. 589 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: The post truth environment, and yes, my wonderful co host 590 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 2: Dol Brown is still mad at Katie Perry. 591 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: I'm not mad at Katy Perry. Let hard to do 592 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 3: what you want. It was just a really, it was 593 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 3: just such a tonel bungled Yes, publicity stunt, Yes, I do. 594 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 2: I do love it though, and we hope that you 595 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 2: love these episodes. Thanks again to our research associate JR. 596 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 2: Jordan run Tall you can find him on multiple other shows. 597 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 2: I really like a lot of his work, Noel, can 598 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: you pitch some of the other endeavors of our boy. 599 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 3: He's got a great podcast that publishes pretty regularly called 600 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 3: Too Much Information or TMI for short, where he delves 601 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 3: into all kinds of pop culture shenanigans with his co host. 602 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 3: And he's also we and he and I have worked 603 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 3: together on some shows in the past, one about David 604 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 3: Bowie's life that you can find just search for David 605 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: Bowie podcast, and one about the Rolling Stones storied exile 606 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 3: on Main Street album and tour that we did with 607 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 3: some of the folks who were actually around for those 608 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 3: moments of chaos, debauchery and sometimes genius. So yeah, do 609 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 3: check out. He's also got printed work that you can 610 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: find in various publications of note, including Rolling Stone and 611 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 3: People Magazine. He's written, you know, profiles on everyone from 612 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 3: Paul McCartney to James Taylor. So he's a real music 613 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 3: head and we really appreciate him bringing us this incredible 614 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,280 Speaker 3: heist story about Moon Rocks. 615 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 2: Agreed and also big thanks to our super producer mister 616 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 2: Max Williams. Huge thanks to Alex Williams. Max's biological brother 617 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 2: who composed this slap in bop. And again, we just 618 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 2: want to make a PSA for one person in the crowd, 619 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, Please turn in the moon rocks. 620 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 3: You know you did, you know, and you know what 621 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 3: you did. Yeah, And I'd like to offer one last 622 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 3: little thanks to Puppy Apolo, who's our own little little 623 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 3: space dog mascot for this pair of episodes. So Paula 624 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 3: waves goodbye to you lovely folks out there. We'll see 625 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 3: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 626 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 627 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 3: your favorite shows.