1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,079 Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, Welcome to a special episode of Amy 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: and TJ, a breaking news episode. I guess robes many 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: people have seen by now the tragedy in DC. A 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: plane crash is one thing. The way this happened, a 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: collision with an army helicopter. Everybody presumed dead, but we 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: are getting some new details. Got a lot today, yes, 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: from the first responders, but we got a lot from 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: President Trump today as well. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: Yes, so I know that a lot of folks were 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: expecting to hear what we know. Of course, the condolences 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: going out to the sixty seven people, and the families 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: and the friends and the folks who are mourning them, 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: all those condolences, but we weren't expecting to hear from 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: the president Already some fingerpointing going on and fingerpointing in 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: a direction that I don't think many people were anticipating. 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: We heard President Trump today at his press conference squarely 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: put the blame on DEI policies within the FAA, saying 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: that the air traffic controllers that we did not have 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: our best based on Obama and Biden administration policies that 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: we had. We didn't have the brightest, we didn't have 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: the folks that we needed to at the HELM or 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: at least within that agency to make sure that our 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: planes and our passengers are safe. In fact, he said 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: that the policies jeopardized the safety of Americans. 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: This was, I guess, strange surprising. It was maybe somebody 26 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: could argue in line, maybe shouldn't have been the surprise. 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: Given Donald Trump, he has signed executive orders taking DEI 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: out of pretty much all the federal government, and so 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: this has been We're not surprised that he would go 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: after die policies. It was a little stunning that he 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: did it the first time. We were hearing from the 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: President of the United States, after a damn national tragedy 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: that is still playing out on. 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: Television connected dots that no one was expecting him to 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: within I mean fifteen hours of the tragedy actually happening 36 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: before NTSB investigators actually were able to go through and 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: they're still going through the wreckage and the evidence that 38 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: they're trying to recover from the Potomac, and. 39 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: We should say, and we are, I guess we fall 40 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: into it a little bit here, and it's unfortunate, but 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: it has to be talked about, and I think some 42 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: folks pointed out in the press room, like their bodies 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: are still being recovered and blame is being placed on people. 44 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: I mean, you talked about DEI policies. We would just 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: talk to someone a short time ago. We don't know 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: the race of anybody involved, no, no of any pilot, 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: of any air traffic control. 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: We don't have names of anyone involved, any of the 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: victims who died at this point as of this recording. 50 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: And so to go ahead and place blame was it 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: was shocking. I think that is a word that a 52 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: lot of folks. 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: Used, and so I want to be clear not putting 54 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: words in the president's mouth. How many of you might 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: have seen it by now, but we want to be 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: clear on what the president said. Again, he walked into 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: the briefing room himself and made some opening statements, but 58 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: he then took questions from the media. There. He was 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: asked directly if he is saying that diversity policies are 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: to blame for the crash. This is a direct quote, 61 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: it just could have been. He was asked again later, 62 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: how can you be sure that DEI is responsible and 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: played a role in the crash? His answer, because I 64 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: have common sense. So this set off a different conversation 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: when we should have been having the only conversation, which 66 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: is I guess sending love to those families, to the 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: US military that lost as well. But instead another group 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: of folks felt attacked by the President in this moment. 69 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: You know, and typically when we have national tragedies, and 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: this was certainly one. This is an aviation tragedy that 71 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: we haven't seen in this country in decades. So this 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: sort of event is shocking, it's traumatizing, but oftentimes it's 73 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: unifying because we come together as a nation. We come 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: together as a country and figure out what went wrong 75 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: and what went right, and how to make sure that 76 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: we massively limit or make sure this never happens again. 77 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: And that is typically the direction we see our leaders 78 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: take us in these moments, and we went in a 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: completely different direction unexpectedly today when we heard from President 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: Trump we. 81 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 3: Must have only the highest standards for those who work 82 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 3: in our aviation system. I changed the Obama standards from 83 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: very mediocre at best to extraordinary. You remember that only 84 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: the highest aptitude have to be the highest intellect and 85 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: psychologically superior people were allowed to qualify for air traffic controllers. 86 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: That was not so prior to getting there. When I 87 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: arrived in twenty sixteen, I made that change very early 88 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: on because I always felt this was a job and 89 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: other jobs too, but this was a job that had 90 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 3: to be superior intelligence and we didn't really have that, 91 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: and we had it. And then when I left office 92 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: and Biden took over, he changed them back to lower 93 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 3: than ever before. I put safety first. Obama, Biden and 94 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: the Democrats put policy first, and they put politics at 95 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: a level that nobody's ever seen because this was the 96 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 3: lowest level. 97 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course we can have a DII debate the 98 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: country should Why not have that debate? And that's fine, 99 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: just the moment to have it through a lot of 100 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: people off guard today, but the focus will remain on 101 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: this strategy for quite some time. They have told us 102 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: they expect the search. They went from a search and 103 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: rescue to simply a recovery effort that happened earlier in 104 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: the day today, which is Thursday, but the work will 105 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: continue for several days. We have been talking to several 106 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: folks to get their expertise, and also one in particular 107 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: that you're going to hear from was a witness. A 108 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: witness robes I think. He says he watched his planes 109 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: take off and land from that airport all the time, 110 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: but of course this was something he never thought he'd 111 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: see before. 112 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he has a rooftop in Arlington. He said he 113 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: can walk to Bake a national airport, and so he 114 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: was out there. It was a little bit of a 115 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: warmer night last night on Thursday night, excuse me, Wednesday night, 116 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: and he happened to see the unthinkable. It was an 117 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: unimaginable moment to witness something like that. 118 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: So you're going to hear our conversation with him. You'll 119 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: also hear our conversation with two pilots. One of them 120 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: happens to be part of an organization that does work 121 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: to promote diversity and is very much involved in DEI. 122 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: You'll hear his reaction to what he heard the president say, 123 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: and also explain why diversity is a positive and has 124 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: never he made his point several times, never been attributed 125 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: to being the cause of any. 126 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: Any incident, any accident, and certainly not a tragedy on 127 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: this scale. 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: And then finally you'll hear from another pilot that we 129 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: talked to and Ropes he said he's actually going to 130 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: change some of his practices because of what happened in 131 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: this stretchy. 132 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that he is going to when he 133 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: lands his planes, he's going to behave differently after what 134 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: happened and after what he's heard from other pilots. And 135 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: certainly as we get more information from the wreckage, the 136 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: black boxes, they haven't been found yet as of this recording, 137 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: there will be I'm sure more changes, not only that 138 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: pilots individually will make, but certainly policies within this country. 139 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: But we thank you for coming to the podcast. We 140 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: thank you for listening, and so we are going to 141 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: now send you to the interviews with those three men 142 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: we just described. Joining us now is Tennessee Garvey. He 143 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: is a pilot at United Airlines First Officer where he 144 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: flies the Boeing seven seven seventies. Also the chairman of 145 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals. 146 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: Tennessee. 147 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us today. 148 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you, Amy, Thanks TJ for having me. It's 149 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 5: a pleasure being here. 150 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: I know you have been following the events, the tragic 151 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: events of the last twenty four hours, and I'm sure 152 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: you watched and followed President Trump's press conference this afternoon 153 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: I'll first ask you just what your impressions, what your 154 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: reactions were to what he had to say. 155 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 5: Well, Kendily, my mouth was a jar. You know, it 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 5: was just the events that happened. First and foremost, by 157 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 5: heart goes out to the families because you know, there 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 5: are six to seven lives lost and you know the 159 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 5: impact of that can never ever be nicated. So you know, 160 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 5: our heart just goes to the families, you know, with 161 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 5: the Trump with President Trump, you know talking about you 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 5: know DEI, you know, being the cause or being a 163 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 5: contributing factor. There's really nothing further from the truth. You know, 164 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 5: over the years, we've enjoyed a very robust safety culture 165 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 5: here within the United States, especial when it comes on 166 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 5: to aviation. And you know, just like with any incident 167 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 5: or accident, you know there's a process to you know, 168 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 5: you know, with the investigation and you know to try 169 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: to find that cause. But you know, to come on 170 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 5: the forefront with no evidence and with nothing you know 171 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 5: to reference, it's it's very dishearten disheartening. 172 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: Can you explain to folks, And let's get it straight, 173 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: most of us are not looking at the qualifications where 174 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: air traffic controllers on a daily basis, right, so we're 175 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: we're not familiar. But what can you explain what he's 176 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: he's talking about in suggesting because there was a change 177 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: in criteria for applicants that I think you can help 178 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: me on the years. I know you know it twenty fourteen, 179 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, But can you help folks and explain what 180 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,359 Speaker 1: the president was talking about when he says the standards 181 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: were changed and his words lowered, but there's a change 182 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: in the standards for the applicants to become air traffic controllers. 183 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 5: What I do know is that you know, when it 184 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 5: comes to, you know, becoming under traffic controller, the attrition 185 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 5: rate TJ is is very high. So you know there's 186 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 5: so many hands that you know, they raise their hands 187 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 5: there they apply and to go through the process. But 188 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 5: the process is such that you know, not everyone makes 189 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 5: it through. It's just one of those errors where you 190 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 5: know it's the training program is very rigorous, and you know, 191 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 5: the reality is, you know, only the best of the 192 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 5: best make it through to the very end. So irrespective 193 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 5: of you know, your gender, your race, your religion, creed, 194 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 5: the process, the program doesn't factor any of that in, 195 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 5: so you still all have to apply, you still have 196 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 5: to be you know, you still have to meet the 197 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 5: qualifications required, and the program is just designed such that 198 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 5: only the best of the best will actually make it 199 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 5: through to the very end. 200 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: So what was your reaction then? And Trump said that 201 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: the FAA has prioritized individuals with disabilities and other marginalized 202 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: groups overqualified candidates, which therefore jeopardized the safety of everyone 203 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: who flies. 204 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 5: It was, it was very disappointing. Amy. So, you know, 205 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 5: going back again to the training programs, So right now 206 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 5: under the Biden administration, there's there's a conscientious effort to 207 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 5: ensure that there are no barriers that existed for those 208 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 5: that mean when to pursue a career within aviation airspace. 209 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 5: And you know, Trump has since recented that, you know, 210 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 5: via an executive order, but you know, there's so many 211 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 5: barriers that tend to exist within aviation airspace, going back 212 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 5: to even when our organization was founded, which is back 213 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 5: in seventy six. You know, when the Tuskegee Airmen were 214 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 5: transitioning out of you know, World War Two, only one 215 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 5: to Skigee airmen actually made it to commercial aviation, and 216 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 5: that was simply because our barriers that existed back then. 217 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 5: Organization like ours is really geared towards workforce development, and 218 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: our focus is to create an access to the underrepresented communities. 219 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 5: So our aviation industry is very robust. But however, there's 220 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 5: still a lack of representation in certain areas of aviation 221 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 5: and aerospace, and organizations like US is really just geared 222 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 5: towards workforce development and for those that may have, you know, 223 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 5: the desire to pursecure within aviation aerospace, we're trying to 224 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 5: create opportunities and provide access. We're not lowering to standards. 225 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 5: We're not lowering to barriers. Again, you know, to my 226 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 5: earlier point. If anything, anytime there's an incident, accident within 227 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 5: this industry, we're all about safety. We're all about learning 228 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 5: from it and you know, put in processes or policies 229 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 5: in place to help us be safer on the back end, 230 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 5: which I know we will do with this with this event. 231 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 6: Yeah. 232 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: But then I say, you said you aren't lowering standards, 233 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: But how do you convent the public of that when 234 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: the President of the United States stands up and says, 235 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: this accident is deadly accident may have happened because we 236 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: lowered standards letting too many diverse folks in. That's that's 237 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: directly almost attributing this crash is deadly crash to the 238 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: diverse group of folks getting opportunities. 239 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 5: So I would my response to that TJ is, well, 240 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 5: let's look at it twofold. Let's first look at look 241 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 5: at it statistically. Statistically, you know, polots out look like 242 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 5: myself represent only four percent of commercial pilots flying within 243 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 5: the industry. So out of every hundred pilots, only four 244 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 5: of us look like myself. When you talk about black 245 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 5: African women, props beelw one percent. So there is the numbers. 246 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 5: So you know, in terms of you know, diversity impact 247 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 5: and safety, there's really no correlation. And then secondly, let's 248 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 5: look at historical data. There hasn't been any accident or 249 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 5: any incident that can and be attributed to DEI. We've 250 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 5: never seen it as a contributing factor. We've never seen 251 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 5: it as you know, the soul cause it's just never happened. 252 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 5: So to say, you know, diverse individuals are compromised in safety, 253 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 5: that is not true. It's not statistically true, it's not 254 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 5: historically true. What I will say is when it comes 255 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 5: to organization like ours, our ethos is inspiring excellence, even 256 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 5: though our hashtag is oh about excellence. So for those 257 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 5: that want to pursue a current aviation aerospace, we're here 258 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 5: to support you, we're here to mint you through all 259 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 5: the way, and we're all about workforce development, but at 260 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 5: every step of the way, we're all about inspiring excellence. 261 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 5: So whenever you see somebody who looks like myself, you know, 262 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 5: whether they're in air traffic controller or they're a pilot, 263 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 5: just know that they're they've been trained to the very 264 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 5: highest level of safety possible because we're all about excellence. 265 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 2: Tennessee, it was interesting hearing you very clearly state there 266 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: is never been any sort of accident or incident aviation 267 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: accident or incident attributed to any sort of DEI policy. 268 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: So when you heard the president, and we know that 269 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: those policies are now under fire with all of the 270 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: executive orders he's signed, but still, when you heard the 271 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: president today, were you expecting him to go there? Oh? 272 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 5: Absolutely not. Again, anytime there is a major event where 273 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 5: there's loss of life involved, the first thoughts go to 274 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 5: are their survivors, what happened and how can we learn 275 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 5: from this? Nowhere in that does anyone ever think about, 276 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 5: you know, skin color was the cause. And to hear 277 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 5: you know, what's being you know, basically presented, which I 278 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 5: really think is just you know, furthering an agenda is 279 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 5: to say that DEI you know, is a cause. And 280 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 5: it's again it's just very disheartening because for those of 281 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 5: us that were very passionate about aviation and aviation safety. Again, 282 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 5: you know, they were still recovering bodies from the river 283 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 5: when he said that, So it really it just left 284 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 5: a lot of us just we were just stunned. 285 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: But how do you combat no matter what facts you have, Tennessee, 286 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: he has a much bigger microphone than you do, how 287 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: do you combat now what will now be a continued 288 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: swelling of a perception. I would argue, of this idea 289 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: that DEI is bad, and now then we'll be able 290 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: to point to DEI is so bad that it's deadly. 291 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: How are you messaging wise, just going to go about 292 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: convincing the public that that ain't the truth. 293 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 5: So you make a great point, teacher, in the sense 294 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 5: that DEI, from my perspective, has been weaponized, and you 295 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 5: know it's not for us to you know, to fight 296 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 5: that fight in the sense that you know, I'm all 297 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 5: about you know, a lot of our works, you know, 298 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 5: show for itself. So our focus is workforce development, and 299 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 5: our focus is create an opportunity, is for the underrepresented, 300 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 5: and our focus will always be, you know, providing access. 301 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 5: So the narrative might be, hey, DEI is bad, but 302 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 5: our goal is to still, you know, stay true to 303 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 5: our mission and still you know, for those that look 304 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 5: like myself and our minorities within the space, we are 305 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 5: going to work to make their dreams become careers, irrespective 306 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 5: of the noise with d I. Because again, statistically, there's 307 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 5: nothing to suggest that DEI is bad having somebody diverse. 308 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 5: If anything, what we've seen and learned in corporate culture 309 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 5: is d I is good. The companies that thrive throughout 310 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 5: because they enjoy diverse workforce. So our goal is not 311 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 5: to go into a fight or you know, to try 312 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 5: to change the narrative of what DEI is. We're all 313 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 5: about just our works and we're all about creating access 314 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 5: and created opportunities. But underneath all of that, it's all 315 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 5: about inspiring excellence. 316 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 2: Tennessee, I know your first response and all of ours 317 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: has been as well. Is just this gutted, awful feeling 318 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: of the loss of life and just how horrific so 319 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: many Americans are feeling right now as they're learning the 320 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 2: news and realizing that they're never going to see their 321 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: loved ones again. That is the focus. Does it feel 322 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: somewhat surreal to be already defending a program that you 323 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 2: so passionately have made your life's work and to imagine 324 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: that there's already finger pointing at this point. I'm just 325 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: curious where your head is given all that we actually 326 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: typically would be focused on today, at this early hour, 327 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: at this early point in the tragedy. 328 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 5: So, you know, like Oshrian earlier with my colleagues, I've 329 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 5: been in this space for twenty two years, never have 330 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 5: seen anything like this, especially in terms of the response 331 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 5: to an accident like that. So you know, to pivot 332 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 5: from you know, are there any survivors to where we're 333 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 5: now talking DEI. It hasn't even been twenty four hours. 334 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 5: It's it's it's it's just stunning. It's it's stunning, and 335 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 5: it's just, you know, it's it's unfortunately that we're even 336 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 5: in this space even having this conversation, because you know, 337 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 5: first and foremost, you know the lives of those involved, 338 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 5: especially the military. You know, they're just a routine training mission, 339 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 5: and you know here we have a major loss of 340 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 5: life event. The focus should always be on that d I. 341 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 5: I don't even know who the names of the pilots are. 342 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 5: So to even say DEI is a thing? How can 343 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 5: we even you know, bring that into the conversation when 344 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 5: they have any released photos of the cruise so you know, 345 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 5: whether it's the air traffic controller or whether it's the pilots. 346 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 5: You know, it's like we're trying to spend a narrative, 347 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 5: but we don't, like, do we know if they're you know, 348 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 5: what their backgrounds are? I don't, so I find it 349 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 5: very discoursion that again we would even try to say, hey, 350 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 5: deis involve when they're still overcovering to bodies. 351 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: Tennesse, you can I ask you one last and this 352 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: on your expertise as a pilot, can you help those 353 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: of us understand a little better a pilot trying to 354 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: land there at Reagan on exactly the flight path he's 355 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: supposed to be on and lined up with that on 356 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: that final approach, it's dark, it's pitch black. How much 357 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: can a pilot see going at that speed. Do you 358 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: do you have any time to react? I suppose or 359 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: are you completely dependent on that air traffic controller to 360 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: tell you where you need to be. 361 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 5: So I really try not to quarterback. You know these 362 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 5: things I have flown into the airport, I've phoned that 363 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 5: exact approach. So to your question of you know, what 364 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 5: can you see at night? So from understanding, they're clared 365 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 5: for the visual approach to runway one and then they 366 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 5: would later ask if they could circle the land on 367 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 5: runway three three. It's very routine thing, nothing abnormal about it. 368 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 5: And you know the pilots, you know, they're in a 369 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 5: position where they could safely make that manever to land 370 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 5: on you know, runway three three. So usually at night, 371 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 5: you know, it's it's a shared responsibility with the pilot 372 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 5: with air traffic to making sure that space, that airspace 373 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 5: is safe. One thing I will say is that air 374 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 5: within the Potomac River it's a very busy airspace. You 375 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 5: do have flights taken off the land and in Reagan, 376 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 5: but at the same time it's a very heavily trafficked area. 377 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 5: When it comes on to low level flying helicopters an 378 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 5: aircraft because there's a V four quarter that exists right 379 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 5: within that area. So it's it's a shared responsibility. And 380 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 5: you know, I know with crews, we have systems on 381 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 5: board that help us see and avoid other aircraft. But 382 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 5: as you get closer to the ground, whenever you come 383 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 5: into land, that system becomes inhibited. So you know, it 384 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 5: may have you know, alerted the crew to our traffic, 385 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 5: but you know, if they're at a montraaltitude, would have 386 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 5: given them a resolution advisory, so whether to climb or 387 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 5: to pitch. But you know, because they're so low into 388 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 5: the ground where we're talking four hundred feet, that system 389 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 5: at that point would normally be inhibited. But again going 390 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 5: back to the tapes, and you know, somewhere along the 391 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 5: liner is a loss of visual separation. It's a very 392 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 5: you know, the the approach that they were shooting again, 393 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 5: it's a it's a published procedure. There is nothing abnormal, 394 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 5: but you know, somewhere along the liner's loss of separation. 395 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 5: So there's a lot to learn because the focus is 396 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 5: really to not let this happen once again, which again 397 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 5: it's so unfortunate that instead of focusing on that, you know, 398 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 5: we're having conversations that I wish, you know, we really 399 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 5: shouldn't be having, especially so soon. 400 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: Well we Tennessee. We so appreciate your experience and expertise 401 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: on all of this today. So thank you so much 402 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: for joining us on the podcast. We really appreciate it. 403 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 5: Now, thank you for the timing, and again thank you 404 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 5: for just seeing reasing this issue. Thank you. 405 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: All right, Thanks brother, thank you so much. Sorry for 406 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: the circumstances, but really good to talk to you. Good 407 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: to meet youa man. 408 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 5: Oh it's a pleasure. And Amy, thanks again for having me. 409 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 5: You take care of him, you wealthy. 410 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: Roy Bess is joining us now on the podcast. He 411 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: was actually on his rooftop in Arlington so close to 412 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: the airport he actually says he can walk to it, 413 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: but unfortunately he saw the tragedy. The disaster happened right 414 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: in front of his eyes. Roy, thank you for being 415 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: with us today. We appreciate it. How are you holding 416 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 2: up after witnessing what you saw? 417 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 6: Pretty well? Just shocked. 418 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 7: I'm still in shock about what's going on and just 419 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 7: feel bad, you know for the people on the plane, 420 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 7: the family and friends. 421 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 6: Right now, now, what did you see take us through? 422 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: What what was it around eight. 423 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 6: Forty five, I guess at night take us through right right. 424 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 6: So I was on the rooftop. 425 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 7: We're out there, a lot of washing planes take off 426 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 7: and land on a daily basis. 427 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 6: And it's been really cold out here, probably the last. 428 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 7: Month or so, and yesterday it was probably in the fifties, 429 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: so it was a little. 430 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 6: Nicer night compared to how the weather was. 431 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 7: I was talking with one of my neighbors and I 432 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 7: heard a loud sound. I turned to the left because 433 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 7: the airport was facing to the side of me the 434 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 7: way I was standing at that point, So I turned 435 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 7: to the left and I saw a big ball of fire, 436 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 7: kind of explosion, and then we saw just the breed 437 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 7: going down to the to the river there, and that's 438 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 7: when my neighbor she howled out, oh my god, on 439 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 7: my god, that's a plane. 440 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 6: Wow. 441 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: You go out there, you watch Lane's land and take off. 442 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: It's beautiful to witness. I can't even imagine seeing that, 443 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: and it's just a horrific thing to witness. Can you 444 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: tell me what what you were feeling? Did you immediately 445 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: realize what you were seeing, what you were hearing? What 446 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 2: did it sound like? 447 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 7: It was very loud and again I was just in 448 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 7: shock at first. You know, you're kind of thinking, okay, 449 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 7: you're buy the airport, but you don't. You don't think 450 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 7: you're going to see anything happen like that. So I 451 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 7: don't know, maybe for a split second, it was like 452 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 7: kind of a denial, Okay, did we just see what 453 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 7: we thought we saw? And then one of my uh 454 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 7: once it was a girl I was speaking to and 455 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 7: it was another guy. 456 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 6: He was like, yeah, it was playing this plane. 457 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 7: And then the other guy was like, yeah, I think 458 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 7: something else hit the plane. And because I wasn't able 459 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 7: to see the helicopter when everything was falling, it just 460 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 7: seemed like, yeah, a couple of pieces go side left 461 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 7: and right, but it just felt like it was just 462 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 7: one piece coming down the river. 463 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 6: So it was just but after that we realized what happened. 464 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 6: What happened? 465 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna ask Roy, did you know pretty 466 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: immediately that you were witnessing a major disaster? 467 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 6: Oh? Definitely, definitely. 468 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 7: Last night when I was looking at the news and everything, 469 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 7: I just know I just new, excuse me, from what 470 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 7: I saw that there was probably gonna be no chance 471 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 7: of survivors. 472 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 6: Wow. 473 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: Wow, How how long did you did you keep watching 474 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 2: how quickly did emergency crews arrive on the scene, Just 475 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 2: watching the aftermath and the response to something that catastrophic, 476 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: did you did you stay out on the roof to watch? 477 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, we stayed on the rooftop. 478 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 7: I want to say the response from the airport was 479 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 7: almost immediate. You just saw different cars and trucks going 480 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 7: out on a floor on tarmac, and then I want 481 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 7: to say, not even It's hard to say. 482 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 6: Everything was just going so fast. Minutes ten minutes. You 483 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 6: just saw emergency. 484 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 7: Response coming from all different directions. Because where I'm located 485 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 7: here in Arlton, I'm sure y'all have been to DC 486 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 7: a lot. 487 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 6: Crystal City. 488 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 7: I'm right here where Amazon new headquarters is by the 489 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 7: block Away. 490 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 6: Everything is close. So they were just coming from highways, 491 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 6: roads everywhere. 492 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: Roy give folks an idea. We heard several people talk about, 493 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: I don't anybody spend time in DC knows just how 494 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: busy that air traffic is up and down the Potomac. 495 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: Give us an idea from your perspective, just how high 496 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: traffic is it. Usually you're there, of course with the planes, 497 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: but also a lot of helicopters, a lot of military 498 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: a lot of VIP traffic. How busy is it in 499 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: the air Usually, I. 500 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 7: Would say very busy, It's not It's normal for you 501 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 7: to see helicopters, whether you're on the rooftop, on a 502 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 7: bike or on a car, sea rooftop constantly, whether it 503 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 7: be police helicopters, coastcard helicopters, and also the military helicopters, 504 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 7: and those you see probably frequently because. 505 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 6: Like I said, I'm right here in Crystal City. 506 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 7: I'm only a minute or two or a few blocks 507 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 7: away from the Pentagon and I'm only about two minutes 508 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 7: away from DC, so it's almost. 509 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 6: Like a taxi service. So yeah, they're back and forth constantly. 510 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 4: Wow. 511 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: And so you're watching all of this Eventually you said 512 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: you went in and you watched the news coverage to 513 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: see what was actually happening. What was that like knowing 514 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: you had witnessed it with your own eyes and then 515 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: actually hearing who was on that plane and just the 516 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: level of the tragedy itself when you just saw the 517 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: scope of it on the news. 518 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 7: Just I wanted to say, once I started seeing everything 519 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 7: unravel on the news, kind of reality set in to 520 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 7: what happened. You know, when things first happen. You hear 521 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 7: all different types of things and then you hear it 522 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 7: was a jet. Any life is terrible to be lost, 523 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 7: but you know you're a Jedi first. Okay, maybe it 524 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 7: was five or seven or eight people, you know, which 525 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 7: is bad in itself, but then you realize it was 526 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 7: a slightly bigger plane and it ended up being sixty 527 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 7: seven people, and that's just crazy. 528 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 6: I think within the last. 529 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 7: Year or so, we've actually had maybe two kind of 530 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 7: close calls at d c A with planes. 531 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 6: But you never think it's going to actually happen though. 532 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you fly in and out of that airport, Roy, Yes. 533 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 7: As you know, I'm close to Dulles Bwy. But I'm 534 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 7: literally walking distance from National So even if the price 535 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 7: is higher, I just right. 536 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 537 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: So how do you or what are your thoughts now 538 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: about flying in and out? I know it's very very early, 539 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: my man, but just the idea or the thought of 540 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: flying in and out of that airport or DC and 541 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: all that busy airspace. 542 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 6: Now, I'm still. 543 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 7: Pretty confident and the aviation and planes and everything. 544 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 6: Uh like I would get on a plane tomorrow. Yeah, 545 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 6: I don't. I don't feel anything way about it. 546 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 7: Something you know went terribly wrong that shouldn't have went wrong. 547 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 6: And you see the. 548 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 7: Videos and then you hear there was some communications. I 549 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 7: just have no idea how it happened. 550 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: Wow, you were there to see it happen. And you know, Roy, 551 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: we appreciate you telling us what you saw from your 552 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: vantage point. Wasn't something you wanted to happen, It wasn't 553 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: something you expected to happen. But we really appreciate you 554 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: filling in what it was like to witness it, to 555 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: see it. And thank you for joining us on the podcast. 556 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 6: Are you welcome. 557 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 7: I just want to say prayers to everyone that was 558 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 7: on a plane and their family and friends as well. 559 00:30:50,960 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Roy, thank you, thank you. And 560 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: joining us now is Bobby Dutton. He is a licensed 561 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 2: commercial pilot and a flight instructor. He's also has a 562 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: platform called Think Like a Pilot, taking what he's learned 563 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: in the cockpit and applying it to life. So Bobby, 564 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Sorry, it's under these circumstances. 565 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 3: This is. 566 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: A tragedy we have not seen in this country for decades. 567 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a big one. 568 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 8: I'm happy to be here, but yeah, I wish it 569 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 8: was under better circumstances. 570 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: So I know that everyone is trying to figure out 571 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: what happened, and we're most likely not going to get 572 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: an answer right away, investigators doing what they do with 573 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: the NTSB there on the scene. 574 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 4: But what have you seen? 575 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 6: What have you heard? 576 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts about what you think is 577 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: a pilot could have happened in this guy there. 578 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 5: Over the poet? 579 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, well, of course, all the pilot forums 580 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 8: are going crazy this morning with speculation and rumors and 581 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 8: cockpit recordings and things like that. 582 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 4: Most of it's constructive, obviously at the bottom. 583 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 8: At the end of the day, the bottom line is 584 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 8: we want to see what we can do, what we 585 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 8: can learn, what we can change to, of course, minimize 586 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 8: the chances of this thing happening. And the reality is 587 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 8: ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time everybody 588 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 8: gets where they're going safely, and it's great, and it's 589 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 8: it's terrible that the unlikely point one percent is something 590 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 8: really horrible like this. I did listen to all the 591 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 8: cockpit recordings and all that. The thing that I noticed 592 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 8: was was obviously the tragedy part is what everybody's talking about, 593 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 8: But what really was impressive to me was the efficiency 594 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 8: of the response. And that's where this pilot thinking really kicks. In. 595 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 8: The way aviators communicate and coordinate and prioritize things is 596 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 8: pretty insane. 597 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 4: And when you think. 598 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 8: About that, the fact that the controller was obviously listening 599 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 8: and watching all the traffic in the air at the time, 600 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 8: and you heard one pilot say did you see that? 601 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 8: Have you all heard heard this recording already? And you 602 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 8: could hear the emotion in the response, because of course, 603 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 8: this is terrifying. There's a fireball off the end of 604 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 8: a runway. This looks serious, this is scary. We've already 605 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 8: got our hands full, but oh my gosh, something, something 606 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 8: needs to happen to help do the best we can. 607 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 8: And yes, you heard that emotion because this was a 608 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 8: terrifying moment. But the fact that that controller was springing 609 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 8: into action as quickly as she did was pretty amazing. 610 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 8: She paused all the ground traffic, she said, if. 611 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 4: You're on the ground, in an airplane or anything. 612 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 8: Else, stop, Getting you where you need to go is 613 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 8: not the priority anymore. She talked to fire control, told 614 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 8: him exactly where to go. She said, half a mile 615 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 8: off the end of the runway about right in the 616 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 8: middle of the river, and so before anything even hit 617 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 8: the water, there was probably help on the way, which 618 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 8: there's something to be said for how impressive that is 619 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 8: that people could react. Because I don't know about you, 620 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 8: but when scary things happened to me that life or 621 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 8: death serious, I freeze, like I don't want to react 622 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 8: or be part of that reality. And part of what 623 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 8: we train for as pilots is we do need to act, 624 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 8: and we need act fast because it could make a 625 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 8: real difference, and I think we saw a lot of 626 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 8: that in the in the aftermath immediately following this horrifying event. 627 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: Bobby, we don't know you, but I assume people in 628 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: your circle, your friends and family would call you the optimists. 629 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 6: Because of all this tragedy. 630 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: I know we will find answers to what went wrong, 631 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: but it immediately jumped out at you what went right? 632 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: And that's worth noting as well. You did mention Because 633 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: we don't have access to these message boards and all 634 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: these group chats of you pilots, so I know there's 635 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot of chatter. Give us an idea in those chats, 636 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: what is kind of the leading theory or conversation about 637 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: what happened over the Potomac. 638 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 4: Sure. 639 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 8: Well, let me preface this by saying I am not 640 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 8: an NTSB investigator. Sources on Facebook chats do need to 641 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 8: be verified before anyone takes them too seriously. That being said, 642 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 8: I mean any airport with international flights anywhere in Boston 643 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,439 Speaker 8: and New York are Class B restricted controlled airspace, which 644 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 8: means you need to be talking to someone to even 645 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 8: enter in the first place. You need to be really 646 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 8: clear on where you're going and what you're doing. On 647 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 8: top of that, in d C, they've got obviously lots 648 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 8: of sensitive restrictions around political sites and people and operations 649 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 8: and military stuff on top of that, and there's a 650 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 8: lot a lot going on there. So frankly, it's a 651 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 8: wonder that people can operate efficiently and safely in these 652 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 8: situations and environments in general. On top of that, it's 653 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 8: at night, which obviously you can't. 654 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 4: See much visually. 655 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 8: And then on top of that, when you're landing in 656 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 8: a plane that weighs tens of thousands of pounds, that's 657 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 8: a controlled descent into the ground, so you are not 658 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 8: very nimble, you can't see much, and so to change 659 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 8: the direction or speed of an object that large and 660 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 8: heavy is no easy feet and so there's a lot 661 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 8: of you know, trust and coordination going on. Where if 662 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 8: I'm in Class B airspace and the controller tells me 663 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 8: where to go, that's where I'm going. 664 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 4: Period. 665 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 8: I can't I can't be expected to be looking for 666 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 8: helicopters out the window while dealing with this normal landing 667 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 8: on top of that. And that's that's scary, because putting 668 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 8: your trust in other people who are looking at radars 669 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 8: and controlling lots of different airplanes, that's that's a lot. 670 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 8: And again usually it works great, but what it sounds 671 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 8: like is in these situations sometimes a controller will say, 672 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 8: do you see this other airplane? They're two o'clock three 673 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 8: thousand feet away, and you look around, and you're supposed 674 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 8: to wait till you see it, of course, and then say, yeah, 675 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 8: I see them. Once you do that, they might say 676 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 8: avoid them, or go behind them, or land after them, 677 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 8: so they can put some of that control right back 678 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 8: onto your plate. And what I learned from this, of course, 679 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 8: watching the consequences if visual separation doesn't work, if a 680 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 8: controller tells me that, especially if I was flying tomorrow 681 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 8: and this were to happen. I would be really careful 682 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 8: about what I tell them I can see and if 683 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 8: I'm not one thousand percent positive i am clear on 684 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 8: which airplane I'm supposed to be avoiding. I'm not gonna 685 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 8: I'm not gonna tell them. Yeah, I should be able 686 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 8: to find them and avoid them. I'm gonna say, listen, 687 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 8: I'm sorry, I don't see them. I'm not positive. So 688 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 8: let's let's if I need to climb or turn around 689 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 8: or come back in fifteen minutes, you tell me what 690 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 8: I need to do to stay safe, because we obviously 691 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 8: need to all trust each other and use all this 692 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 8: crazy information and moving parts to execute this stuff safely. 693 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, Bobby, you started with the odds that in ninety 694 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 2: nine point nine nine percent of all of these takeoffs 695 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 2: and landings you have zero problems. I'm curious when it 696 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: comes to the odds to think, as you're describing this 697 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 2: massive plane coming in in a controlled descent, with the 698 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 2: air traffic controller telling you you're on the right path, 699 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: what are the chances that at the exact same moment 700 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 2: that helicopter came into the exact same place as that aircraft. 701 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 2: I mean, it's mind blowing to me. That those two 702 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: events could come together at the exact wrong time. 703 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 8: It's crazy and it's horrible. And when people see those 704 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 8: maps of all the planes that are active over the 705 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 8: US right now, and there's just thousands of them, it's 706 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 8: a miracle. They're all avoiding each other most of the time. 707 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 8: But think about that map you're looking at. It's two dimensional, 708 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 8: and on top of the two D map, we've got 709 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 8: tens of thousands of vertical feet too, separating them. So 710 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 8: not only were those two aircraft in the unfortunate same 711 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 8: latitude and longitude, but also the same altitude, and that, 712 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 8: like you said, is just a horrible coincidence. 713 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that was my question. Just a horrible coincidence. 714 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: We're trying to understand. This had to be a the 715 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: pilots are at that time of night, you're totally dependent 716 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: on what the air traffic controller tells you. I want 717 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: to go back to what you said. They say, hey, 718 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: do you see so and so on, You look out 719 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: you in and say, yeah, I see it, and the 720 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: air traffic controller kind of moves on. I'm sure you've 721 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: seen the video where there seems to be a second plane. 722 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: It is there. Okay, that's speculative. I don't want to 723 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: go there, but there is a second plane. Even in 724 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: seeing the videos, is watching it on TVs, I hear 725 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: his video of the crash. I was for the first 726 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: couple of times looking at the wrong plane and the 727 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: wrong ball of light in the air because there was 728 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: a second plane. Have you seen what I'm talking about. 729 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 8: I'm not positive of the exact clip you're suggesting, but 730 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 8: there were definitely at least a handful of other planes 731 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 8: during working on a landing or departing. And that's that's normal, 732 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 8: which is nuts. So within five miles of the airport 733 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 8: there were probably a dozen planes, all already cleared for landing, 734 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 8: all lined up in the right order. 735 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: But Bobby the u all's practices are to generally the 736 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: air traffic controller trust you. You say, hey, do you 737 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: see it? You look out you in and say, yeah, 738 00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: I see it, and that's kind of the end of it. 739 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: There's no further verification or anything. 740 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, once you get that landing clearance, you have the 741 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 8: approval to use the runway. 742 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: Wow, all that's an all clear right. 743 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 8: Well yeah, and then again again not to I don't 744 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 8: want to speculate too much, but what I believe happened 745 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 8: is there's tons of people and traffic and aircrafts, then 746 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 8: there's a military operation happening at the same time. Military 747 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 8: does need to talk to the same tower and the 748 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 8: same air traffic if they're in that same class B 749 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 8: air space, so everyone should be on the same frequency. 750 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 8: But what it sounds like is the helicopter was flying 751 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 8: and they said do you see this other plane? And 752 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 8: things were happening really fast in that moment, and I 753 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 8: didn't hear helicopter pilots say yes, I see that plane. 754 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 4: What do you need me to do about that? 755 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 8: I just heard them then say, maintain visual separation, which, 756 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 8: if I haven't confirmed I saw that plane, it's too 757 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 8: much to ask me as a pilot to maintain separation 758 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 8: of something I haven't confirmed I see. 759 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 2: So yeah, And from when we heard that happening with 760 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 2: the helicopter and the air traffic control, I believe it 761 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 2: was thirteen seconds later, right, So, speaking of time, I'm 762 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 2: also curious if the plane, if the American Airlines plane 763 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 2: was only four hundred feet in altitude and was clearly 764 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 2: over the Potomac, I mean, what were they thirty seconds 765 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 2: one minute from landing? How close was that plane from 766 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 2: actually hitting the ground. 767 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, less than thirty seconds from landing, which is 768 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 8: hitting the ground in a good way. But yeah, there's nothing. 769 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 8: I don't think there's any way they saw anything. They 770 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 8: were focused on that landing. The runway was half a 771 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 8: mile ahead. Everything was looking good, and then all of a sudden, 772 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 8: it wasn't. 773 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: Do we hear right from a pilot? I think earlier 774 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: were saying a lot of the aircraft avoidance systems, those 775 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: automated systems that of spose to alert you at that altitude, 776 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: They're not going to help you. 777 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 8: There's a lot going on. They're going to be warning 778 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 8: you about terrain. They're going to say there's ground, which 779 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 8: there should be. 780 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 2: When I've sat close enough to the to the cockpit, 781 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 2: I can hear that. Sometimes I can hear that's a ground. 782 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 2: Oh no, are they supposed to be hearing that? Yeah, 783 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: I have actually heard that when we're landing, and. 784 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 8: I mean a normal landing. You know, I'm licensed as 785 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 8: a flight instructor. I mean you see student pilots learning 786 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 8: to land. It's it's a very difficult thing to teach 787 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 8: because a good landing is, like I said, a controlled 788 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 8: flight into the ground, and the one hardwired rule we 789 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 8: all have as humans is good flying means don't ever 790 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 8: fly into the ground, and sometimes you have to learn 791 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 8: how to do that properly. 792 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: Bobby with I know, obviously there are going to be 793 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 2: so many lessons learned the very difficult way through this tragedy. 794 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 2: But is there something that you're hoping will change. I 795 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: know a lot of people have pointed to the traffic, 796 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 2: the air traffic, and the obstacles as you mentioned so 797 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 2: many no fly zones around the DC area, but specific 798 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 2: to DCA, that there are some real changes that need 799 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 2: to be made. As a pilot, what would you like 800 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 2: to see happen? 801 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean all the airspace management stuff is above 802 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 8: my pay grade. But I know in the next week 803 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 8: I'll get lots more notifications on pilot groups I'm in, 804 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 8: I'll get a note from the place I rent airplanes 805 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:13,919 Speaker 8: for fun. 806 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 4: I'll hear all kinds of stuff. 807 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 8: And my own vigilant is just going to say, next 808 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 8: time I'm landing, I'm gonna be twice as aware of 809 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 8: every inch of sky I can see, and I'm going 810 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 8: to be paying really close attention to the radio traffic. 811 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 8: And you know what if I hear something on the 812 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 8: radio that says, oh, there's some other operation going on. 813 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 8: I think it's below me in a place I can't 814 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 8: see very clearly. I might even ask the tower like, hey, 815 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 8: is are we good? Like would it be helpful for 816 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 8: me to come back in a minute. Obviously that's tough 817 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 8: to do, and you've got lots of passengers trying to 818 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 8: get on the ground safely, but get to get the 819 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 8: landing done properly is definitely the priority we need to 820 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 8: adjust to boost boost safety from that ninety nine point 821 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 8: nine to nine percent as close as we possibly can 822 00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 8: to one hundred. 823 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: Well, we do pilots how their favorites when it comes 824 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: to airports, like I love flying into that one. I 825 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: hate flying into that one cause it's tricky. That one's annoying. 826 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: Do you all have that? And I guess where to 827 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: do what a DCA rank for pifficulty? 828 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 8: I have never personally flown in there, and just looking 829 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 8: at the chart, I did that to get ready for 830 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 8: this conversation. 831 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 4: And even on a normal day when. 832 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 8: Everything's fine, even if the President's not in town, the 833 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 8: quietest day there is in DC, it is all read 834 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 8: all restriction and if you drill down into what these 835 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 8: restrictions are about. 836 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 4: It's it's scary. 837 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,919 Speaker 8: I did a flight once down the Hudson Corridor, New York, 838 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 8: which was challenged to see. 839 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 4: Okay, this is this there's a lot going on. I 840 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 4: got JFK and Laguardi and Teterborough. 841 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 8: And lots of helicopters, lots of helicopters. But I did 842 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 8: this training. I want to use this knowledge. I want 843 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 8: to understand it. And I can remember just how busy 844 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 8: that frequency was, and it's I remember reading the briefings 845 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 8: that says you can be at this altitude, you can 846 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 8: be from here to hear, but if you go this 847 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 8: way twenty feet, we reserve the right to use lethal 848 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 8: force to remove them from that space. 849 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 4: They will shoot your airplane. 850 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 8: Yes, and so like for somebody trying to have a 851 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 8: learning flight, you know, that's pretty high stakes. 852 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 4: So it's it's a lot. 853 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 8: And any international airport is going to be really intense 854 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 8: and really restricted and really controlled. 855 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 4: And this is a good thing. 856 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 8: But when you've got military operations, politics, restricted airspace, nighttime, 857 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 8: heavy airplane, no visibility, it's it's a lot. So pilots 858 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 8: love their jobs, but it can be it can be 859 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 8: a lot mentally, especially at the end of a flight. 860 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 8: You know they've been they've been going hard for a while, 861 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 8: and it's it's hard to stay sharp and make it 862 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 8: all work. But obviously everybody does the best they can, 863 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 8: and there's a lot of training and procedures to make 864 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 8: it work. 865 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 2: Now we've been hearing that about air traffic controllers as well, 866 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 2: and it makes perfect sense. I just wanted to ask 867 00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 2: you one last question, Bobby. You know, I was even 868 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 2: saying I have taken for granted, how walking onto a plane, 869 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 2: I just assume it's all going to be good. I 870 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 2: haven't had fear, I haven't had any trepidation. But certainly 871 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 2: people are going to feel that way now, people who've 872 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,280 Speaker 2: traveled today, people who have flights scheduled for the next 873 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 2: days or weeks to come. What do you say to folks, 874 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 2: how do you feel about the current status of this 875 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 2: country's ability to land plane safely? 876 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 8: Yeah, I think if you're nervous about flying, listen to 877 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 8: the pilots. 878 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 4: Listen to how they sound. 879 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 8: Even in that recording, like I said, they weren't. They 880 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 8: weren't out of control, they weren't too emotional. They immediately 881 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 8: said Okay, what can I do given the situation. Yes, 882 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 8: there was just a fireball in the sky, and yes 883 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 8: this looks serious, but let's start acting right now. 884 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 4: And that, to me is very impressive. 885 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 8: And even the way when you hear a captain on 886 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 8: a flight come over the intercom, like, think about how 887 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 8: they sound. They don't sound stressed, where all of us 888 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,959 Speaker 8: on the ground we sound overwhelmed and stressed all the time. 889 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 8: We're always I've got fifty text message unread, I've got 890 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 8: sixty emails, I'm worried about this meeting tomorrow. I'm overwhelmed 891 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 8: even on a normal day. And I think a lot 892 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,839 Speaker 8: of humans on the ground feel like that these days. 893 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 8: And yet pilots are the one group that whenever you 894 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 8: hear them, they sound so in control that we like 895 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 8: to make fun of them as sounding bored. You know, 896 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,240 Speaker 8: they say, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to be flying 897 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 8: at thirty eight thousand feet today. We're going to Miami. 898 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,759 Speaker 8: It's three thousand miles. Whether it's seventy degrees, it's a 899 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 8: little windy, should be. 900 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 4: Fine, have a great flight. 901 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 8: I got this Like that kind of relaxation is not 902 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,480 Speaker 8: a a it's not put on for show. They've done 903 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 8: this flight, they've trained an insane amount for everything that 904 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 8: could go right and everything that could go wrong in 905 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 8: the next couple hours, and they are relaxed, even though 906 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 8: they're working on something that's much more high stakes than 907 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 8: all this drama that's stressing us out as normal people. 908 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 8: So put some faith in that process and the people 909 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 8: that get through the filters to be qualified to be 910 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 8: in that cockpit. They're there to take care of you, 911 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 8: and they know what they're doing. 912 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 2: Well, Pilot Bobby Dutton, we really appreciate your perspective and 913 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 2: your expertise. It certainly helped us understand what happened today 914 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 2: and what happened last night actually, and just the reaction 915 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 2: that's going on today. So Bobby, thank you so much 916 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 2: for your time today. 917 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me