1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 3: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 3: On the side, we are two working parents who love 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 4: Welcome to best of both worlds. 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: the most out of life. 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 4: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: In this episode, Sarah is going to be interviewing Lisa Doggett, 14 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: who is a physician but has also experienced the healthcare 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: system as a patient as she's been navigating having a 16 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: chronic illness. Sarah, maybe you can tell us a little 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: bit about what we're in store for hero at the interview. 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was a great conversation. And Lisa herself 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 3: is a wonderful speaker, and I think you'll get that 20 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: from the interview. But her perspective is just so unique, 21 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 3: having worked as a physician for the patients that have 22 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: the most trouble accessing healthcare and then also experiencing it 23 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 3: on the other end, still struggling as a very you know, 24 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: she acknowledges her own privilege and then yet still finds 25 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 3: it hard. And it just got me to think about 26 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 3: how like, even in the best case scenarios, there are 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: just so many frustrating things about how we access healthcare 28 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 3: in this country. And she has some tips for listeners 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 3: about that, and it's i think, fighting the good fight herself. 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: So it's a great interview. 31 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, have you experienced any of that yourself, 32 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: as you you know, especially you know it from the 33 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: provider side, but on the patient side then too. 34 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 35 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: I was brainstorming about this and I'm like, Okay, I 36 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: have like generally very low complexity needs in our family 37 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: and also like great insurance and immense amounts of privilege, 38 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: and I still find it like little things annoying. And 39 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 3: I was just thinking, like, what are those things? Like 40 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: I can never get the after school st or Orthodonis appointments, 41 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: and I feel like my kids live there and I'm 42 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 3: always having to like pick them up in the middle 43 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: of the day. I mean, that seems so silly, but 44 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 3: like I wish there were more afternoon slots for older kids, 45 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: especially things like just resorting to paying out of pocket 46 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: for certain specialists because the wait times are either so 47 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 3: long or the quality is just spotty. And I feel 48 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 3: very lucky that I've been able to do that, but 49 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: then I also just am like frustrated for anybody who. 50 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 5: Can't do that. 51 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: You know, having to wait many hours in a doctor's 52 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: office is a personal pet peeve of mine because I 53 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: tend to run, not like perfectly on time, because sometimes 54 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: there are patient needs, but like if I'm running twenty 55 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 3: thirty minutes late, that's like that's like as late as 56 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 3: it gets. So it's just frustrating to maybe get to 57 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: an appointment and then sit there for hours. And then 58 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: even prescriptions, which our person mentions, I'm on a specialty medication. 59 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: It's not like a super specialty medication, but you know, 60 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: for my migraines, and even though I know the doctor 61 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: puts the prescription in, like I often just can't get 62 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: it and there'll be some insurance hoop I have to 63 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: figure out and it takes multiple phone calls. And again 64 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: that's in like the best case scenario of where I am, 65 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: and I acknowledge that, so my heart goes out to 66 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: those who have more complexities, less privilege, less access, et cetera. 67 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: And I think this conversation is a great, you know, 68 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: starting point to think about some of those things. 69 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 70 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: No, definitely a lot of frustration. But you know it's 71 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean it's not just this country. There are places 72 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: elsewhere too. I mean people have different frustrations perhaps, but yes, 73 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: there are still. 74 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 4: Still frustrations to there. 75 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: And I know that you run a tight ship in 76 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: your office, and so I mean it's maybe something you 77 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: could explore more, telling people about how you do that sometimes. 78 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, but our office has are I mean, 79 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: I'm not throwing anybody under the I love where I work, 80 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: but like, just get like a new patient appointment. I 81 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: think our wait time is very long right now. So yeah, 82 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: nobody's perfect in this world. 83 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: Is perfect? No, there so many challenges. 84 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, and that's true. 85 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: And maybe some other places are like, well let's just 86 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: triple book them, get people in right, and then you 87 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: know you wind up waiting for two hours. You got 88 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: the appointment for a new patient, but yeah, you had 89 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: to wait all that time. So yes, it can happen. 90 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: I am sure. Well let's sell and Lisa's got a 91 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: new book out right, that's a yeah. 92 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: So we talk about this, of course, but it's called 93 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: Up the Down Escalator and it is fantastic. I admitted 94 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: in the thing that I read bits and pieces, but 95 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 3: I'm fully committed to going back and read the whole 96 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 3: thing because there's just such great vignettes and if you 97 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 3: are in the medical field, you'll find the flashbacks to 98 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: medical school and training I think to be really really 99 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: poignant and fun to read. 100 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: Awesome. 101 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 4: All right, well let's hear what Lisa has to say. 102 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: I am so excited today to welcome doctor Lisa dogge 103 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 3: It to the podcast. 104 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: We had for quite some time. 105 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: Been interested in interviewing someone who could share their story living. 106 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: With chronic illness. 107 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 3: And when I learned about Lisa's story and also found 108 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: out she was a fellow empty with a really really 109 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 3: interesting story of her own, and I thought she would 110 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: be a perfect person to join us. 111 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: For this episode. 112 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 3: So with that, welcome Lisa, go ahead and introduce yourself, 113 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 3: tell everybody a little bit about your career path, your family, 114 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: kind of the Lisa background. 115 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Sarah. It is such a thrill 116 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 6: to be on your show. I'm really excited to be here. 117 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 6: So I'm Lisa. I'm a family doctor. As you mentioned, 118 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 6: I live in Austin, Texas. 119 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 5: I'm a rare native. 120 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 6: We have a lot of people that have come from 121 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 6: around the country to Austin because it's a great place 122 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 6: to live. But I've lived here for over twenty years. 123 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 6: I grew up here and then went away from medical 124 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 6: training and came back. So I worked as a family 125 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 6: doctor in community clinics for about thirteen years after my return, 126 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 6: and I had two kids during that time. They're now teenagers, 127 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 6: two girls. I'm married to a pediatric hospital doctor, and 128 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 6: I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis back in two thousand 129 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 6: and nine. 130 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 5: And now we're going to talk a lot more about that. 131 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my gosh, So you have a lot in 132 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 3: common with me in the whole like two position couple. 133 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: And it was really fun because as I was reading 134 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 3: some of your book, all those early memories of like 135 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: residency or med school and then having your partner like 136 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: going through it at the same time, absolutely like tweetd 137 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: my own memory. Did you two meet in medical school? 138 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 6: We actually met in college and there is a whole 139 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 6: a chapter about it in the book. So more to 140 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 6: come when you when you read the book. But we 141 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 6: met through some friends during my first year of college, 142 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 6: and we were at different schools though two hours apart, 143 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 6: so we dated throughout college kind of a long distance relationship, 144 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 6: and then we were able to go to med school together. 145 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: Ah, I love that awesome. 146 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 3: Well, your book centers around well, it has a lot. 147 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 3: Actually your book is, like I thought it was going 148 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 3: to be more just around your illness, but there is 149 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 3: so much more than that contained in the pieces that 150 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 3: I read, and I've read, like I kind of flipped 151 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 3: through and read my red parts, and I can tell 152 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: already that I'm super excited to go back and read 153 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 3: it in detail, because again, just struck a lot of 154 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: personal chords for me, not the illness part necessarily, but 155 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: just the medical practice part, medical systems, all of that stuff. 156 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: And yet one of the kind of. 157 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: Main narratives is your journey through your diagnosis and learning 158 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: to live with this chronic illness. So if you wouldn't 159 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: mind kind of giving us kind of your version of 160 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: how things unfolded from the beginning illness wise to where 161 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: to kind of where you are now. 162 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, So the memoir is really about my transformation 163 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 6: from doctor to patient with multiple sclerosis while I was 164 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 6: directing a clinic for people who were without private insurance. 165 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 6: It all started when I woke up dizzy one morning, 166 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 6: and I remember the exact date. It was November two, 167 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 6: two thousand and nine. It was two days before my 168 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 6: younger daughter turned too, so my kids were really little, 169 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 6: not at all independent. It was a very busy time 170 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 6: and difficult time in my life already. But I woke 171 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 6: up and then I developed double vision and then taste 172 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 6: changes later in the week, and I started getting concerned, 173 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 6: especially when I got those other symptoms. At first, I thought, oh, 174 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 6: I'm just I've just got a cold. It'll get better. 175 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 6: And then I started getting new symptoms and I was like, 176 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: this doesn't make sense. Something's not adding up here. I 177 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 6: saw a neurologist who was a friend over lunch. She 178 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 6: thought I was probably fine, but with those new changes 179 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 6: over the weekend, I consulted with an ear nose and 180 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 6: throat doctor, also a friend. He got me in the 181 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 6: next day for an appointment and ordered an MRI, and 182 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 6: that is when I was diagnosed. It was actually a 183 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 6: total shock, but I had been thinking I had a 184 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 6: brain tumor over the weekend because I couldn't think of 185 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 6: anything else. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of MS. My 186 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 6: husband didn't think of MS. I looking back, I'm. 187 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 5: Like, why didn't we think of this? 188 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 6: But you know, that was my diagnosis and I really 189 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 6: was very fortunate to find out just nine days after 190 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 6: those symptoms started. So I know you, as a doctor 191 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 6: know about MS, but I've learned a lot more about it, 192 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 6: and I all is like to tell people what it is, 193 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 6: because it's a very strange disease. But it's an autoimmune 194 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 6: condition of the central nervous system, so the brain and 195 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 6: spinal cord, and it impacts your body's ability, your brain's 196 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 6: ability to communicate with the rest of the body. So 197 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 6: it can cause all kinds of weird symptoms like mobility problems, fatigue, 198 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 6: cognitive problems, sensory changes, bowel and bladder problems, depression, really 199 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 6: on and on, and it manifests very differently in different people. 200 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 6: Dizzyness isn't necessarily a common symptom, but that's kind of 201 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 6: how it started for me. And my book is about 202 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 6: my journey really coming to terms with that illness on 203 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 6: the front lines of the messy and dysfunctional US healthcare system. 204 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: Yes, and you were dealing with this initially when you 205 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: had a two year old that was your younger year 206 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: older at the time. 207 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 5: My younger was two, the older was four. 208 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:53,479 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 209 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 5: Yeah. 210 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: And I guess one of the things about MS, and 211 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: you are a medical professional, is that, you know, we 212 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 3: like it when we can predict how things are going 213 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: to turn out, or when you have a condition that 214 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: has a very defined beginning, middle. 215 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: And end treatment plan MS. 216 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: It sounds like is not like that and has not 217 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: been like that for. 218 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 5: You, right, No, it's very uncertain. 219 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 6: And actually, you know, I have what's called relapsing remitting MS, 220 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 6: which is about eighty five percent of people that had MS, 221 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 6: and it's kind of the It means that you have 222 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 6: periods where you get better and then you. 223 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: Have periods where you relapse or get worse. 224 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 6: And I had a relapse just five months after my diagnosis, 225 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 6: which was really early and very concerning that I would 226 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 6: have potentially had a more aggressive form of the disease. 227 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 6: That's what my doctor thought might be the case. I 228 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 6: had to switch medications really early. It was really a struggle, 229 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 6: and then I had subsequent relapses a few years later. 230 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 6: Each of those has been very difficult. But as you know, 231 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 6: as you said, you kind I've learned to live with 232 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 6: uncertainty and we all have that. I just have kind 233 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 6: of an extra dose of it. 234 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: Wow, how did you decide? 235 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: Kind of, well, I don't want to stay in the 236 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 3: aftermath because there is no there is no end here. 237 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 3: But how did you decide to turn this into a book? 238 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 3: What was a driving force behind you wanting to do that? 239 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 6: Well, I've always loved to write. I am an obsessive 240 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 6: journal keeper. I started writing in a journal every day 241 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 6: when I was eleven years old. I have missed about 242 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 6: five or six days since then, so I literally have 243 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 6: over one hundred journals in my bedroom upstairs. But I've 244 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 6: always loved to write, so I've always thought, you know, 245 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 6: I might want to write a story of my life someday, 246 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 6: but didn't really know what form that would take. 247 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 5: You know, my diagnosis was really a shock. 248 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 6: I was totally overwhelmed at the time with two kids 249 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 6: under five, and I had this really challenging job, and 250 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 6: I was, you know, I just didn't expect this to 251 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 6: happen to me. I think we as physicians think, you know, 252 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 6: we're dealing with chronic conditions a lot, but as certainly 253 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 6: as a family doctor, I know as an in phnologists 254 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 6: you do as well. But we also kind of think 255 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 6: we're immune to this. We know how to be the odds, 256 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 6: and I was kind of part of that. I thought, 257 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 6: you know, I'm not going to get sick, but then 258 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 6: I suddenly had this chronic condition. So writing the book 259 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 6: was really a self indulgent exercise. 260 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 5: I have to admit. 261 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 6: It was a way for me to process what happened, 262 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 6: and it was really kind of therapeutic for me to 263 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 6: tear that apart and then put the pieces back together, 264 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 6: which is what I did in creating the book. I 265 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 6: also wanted to write it to help people who had 266 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 6: chronic conditions to deal with it themselves and share some 267 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 6: of the things I learned in a very roundabout way. 268 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 6: My path was not at all very straight. It was 269 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 6: kind of all over the place. I had a lot 270 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 6: of challenges throughout the course of the illness, which of 271 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 6: course still continues. And then, of course I wanted to 272 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 6: write this for my patients because I was seeing their 273 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 6: struggles and just felt like I wanted to shine a 274 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 6: light on the real dysfunction of our healthcare system and 275 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 6: the disparities that I saw. 276 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: Yes, I want to take a brief break, but I 277 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 3: want to delve into that a little bit more when 278 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: we come back. 279 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: Okay, we're back. 280 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: So, as you mentioned, I want to go back and 281 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 3: talk more about the personal side. But since you brought 282 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 3: up kind of the healthcare system and the disparities, I thought. 283 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: You did an excellent job. Okay, let me take a 284 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: step back. 285 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 3: Sometimes when I listen to narratives talking about people's experience 286 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: in the healthcare system, the providers come out as villains. 287 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: So your story was very unique because you are a provider, 288 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 3: and I can tell from all of your stories about 289 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 3: your patients and the population you care for, and how 290 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: much you truly cared for those patients that you don't 291 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 3: believe that providers are out to get people or don't 292 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 3: care in general, Like obviously there's going to be a 293 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: broad spectrum of. 294 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: What people are like, but. 295 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 3: You can have a dysfunctional system with a lot of 296 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 3: well meaning components and it still sucks for the patient. 297 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: And I would love you to get into that a 298 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: little bit more and how that felt, especially as someone 299 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: who had spent so many years trying so hard to 300 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 3: help people and already knew how incredibly difficult it can be, 301 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: especially for those without resources and privilege. 302 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, no, my patients faced incredibly challenging situations. I had 303 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 6: patients who had spouses who were deported, or they had 304 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 6: bats in their apartment and the landlord didn't get rid 305 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 6: of them, or they had employers who were really unfair. 306 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 6: I wouldn't pay them or would expect them to work 307 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 6: ridiculous hours. And they didn't have resources, and they often 308 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 6: didn't know how to advocate for themselves. Many of them 309 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 6: didn't speak English, many of them didn't have friends or 310 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 6: family nearby that they could call on in times of challenge. 311 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 6: And I realized that, you know, they had a lot 312 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 6: of what we are now calling social determinants of health, 313 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 6: where they which are kind of the conditions in which 314 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 6: we live, and those impact our health more than even 315 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 6: our medical care. And it was hard because there was 316 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 6: little that I could do about that. But our system 317 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 6: is not set up to provide the support that's needed, 318 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 6: so the people that need the care the most often 319 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 6: get the least care. They could see me at the clinic, 320 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 6: but then I couldn't refer them on to see a specialists, 321 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 6: so I had a woman that needed to see an 322 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 6: air nose. 323 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 5: And throat doctor. 324 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 6: I just talked about how I saw an aeronos and 325 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 6: throat doctor, you know, a week after my symptoms started, really, 326 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 6: you know, the day after I decided I needed to 327 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 6: She had to wait literally two years to see an 328 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 6: air nos and throat doctor, and then they told her 329 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 6: she didn't have anything wrong and kind of sent her 330 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 6: on her way. I had patients who needed to go 331 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 6: to the er, and then they would go to the 332 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 6: er and just be dismissed because, as you know, they 333 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 6: didn't speak clearly or they just didn't present themselves in 334 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 6: such a way that the er really took them seriously. 335 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 6: And it was heartbreaking to see those kinds of things. 336 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 6: So yeah, we have a system that is not set 337 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 6: up to help people that need the most care. And 338 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 6: then as when I became a patient, I really see 339 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 6: those disparities in a new way. So, as I mentioned, 340 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 6: you know, the ear nose and throat example, where you 341 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 6: know I could see specialists easily, my patients couldn't. And 342 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 6: then I also face challenges that I know they did 343 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 6: and many others do, like my medication arriving late, so 344 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 6: you know, my medicine is a specialty medicine that's shipped 345 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 6: from a pharmacy directly to my house, and there were 346 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 6: times that just didn't come and I was like, I 347 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 6: need this medicine to keep me healthy. What's going on? 348 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 6: And I would be shuttled from one pharmacy to a 349 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: different pharmacy to you know, then told my prescription was canceled. 350 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 6: It was, you know, that it expired, and just having 351 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 6: to deal with all of those kinds of issues that 352 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 6: I hadn't ever experienced firsthand before. It really gave me 353 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 6: a kind of a new perspective and helped me appreciate 354 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 6: what some of my patients. 355 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: Were going through. 356 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: And I don't want to minimize what you were going 357 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: through too, because yes, even though it was it's even 358 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 3: harder for many, it's easy for no one, and that 359 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 3: it's unfortunate, it's true. 360 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 6: And actually it's one thing I have thought a lot 361 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 6: about is I really kind of minimized what I was 362 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 6: going through because in comparison, my patients were going through 363 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 6: such bigger challenges, and it's something I've kind of struggled with, like, 364 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 6: I don't ever want to compare myself to my patients 365 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 6: and at the same time, like I was like, I 366 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 6: need to just suck it up and get over it, 367 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 6: because really, this is not a big deal compared to 368 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 6: what some of these, you know, my patients are dealing with. 369 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 6: And yet it was still a challenge, and I think 370 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 6: that I really didn't give myself kind of an off credit, 371 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 6: enough of an opportunity to just grieve and then accept 372 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 6: what I was going through. 373 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 3: Yes, well, you were incredibly open in your book about 374 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 3: some of the strain and the stress that this new 375 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: burden placed on you by the illness had on your 376 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: marriage and then your career. Can you talk a little 377 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: bit about that, and also perhaps with a glimmer of 378 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 3: hope for anyone experiencing anything similar a tough diagnosis, either 379 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 3: in themselves or perhaps a child, Like, what are maybe 380 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: some ways to mitigate some of what you went through? 381 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: Sure? 382 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 6: Yeah, so I think any kind of chronic condition is 383 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 6: a challenge for a family. MS has certainly had a 384 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 6: big impact on mine. I think it was worse at 385 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 6: the beginning, certainly, just kind of figuring out what was 386 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 6: going wrong and then realizing what this might mean. I 387 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 6: really was very sick at the beginning, especially after I 388 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 6: got a spinal tap where I was pretty incapacitated in bed, thinking. 389 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 5: Is this what MS is going to look like for me? 390 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 6: So it was a big strain on my marriage, and 391 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 6: I think it's brought us closer, and at times it's 392 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 6: been kind of up and down, and I think that 393 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 6: you learned to navigate that. My husband and I have 394 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 6: been best friends since we were eighteen years old, so 395 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 6: we have a really strong bond. But I think something 396 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 6: like having a chronic condition like MS, it can really 397 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 6: rattle your marriage. And we've gotten help for that and 398 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 6: we've worked really hard to stay together and I think 399 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 6: now we're really in a very solid place. But it 400 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 6: hasn't always been that way, and I think in some 401 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 6: ways it's similar with my kids. We've had ups and downs. 402 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 5: In my early years. 403 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 6: After the diagnosis, I was dizzy every day for years 404 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 6: and it made me so much more irritable and impatient 405 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 6: with the kids, and I had to get help. So 406 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 6: you were asking like, what do you do you're in 407 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 6: this kind of situation, and you know, I think that 408 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 6: really reaching out for help, reaching out to friends was 409 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 6: key for me. I actually, my husband works crazy hours. 410 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 6: I imagine yours does too, so he would work evenings 411 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 6: and weekends, which is the time that I had off, 412 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 6: and when I really needed to recharge, he was gone. 413 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 6: So I ended up reaching out to friends, many of 414 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 6: whom didn't have kids, and would say, Hey, come over 415 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 6: in the week, in the evening or the weekend and 416 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 6: help us. Let's make this fun, let's make dinner together, 417 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 6: let's do bad time together. And I actually signed up 418 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 6: friends and my sister as well to come over and help, 419 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 6: which was fun. I got a babysitter to come in 420 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 6: the mornings because we struggled so much to get out 421 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 6: the door. I set up some systems like I would 422 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 6: have baskets for snacks every day of the week, and 423 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 6: just like fill those baskets every Sunday to make sure 424 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 6: we didn't have to be rummaging around for snacks every morning. 425 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 6: But I think most of all it's on mindset, so 426 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 6: just kind of, you know, I was like, I need 427 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 6: to get everything right. I remember, right before my daughter, 428 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 6: right before I got sick with MS, I was like 429 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 6: till nearly midnight trying to make her perfect birthday cake 430 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 6: with orange icing because it was Halloween and I have 431 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 6: to get the right shade of orange. And I really, 432 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 6: you know, now I can buy the cake, like I 433 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 6: don't have to do everything. It doesn't have to be perfect. 434 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 6: And I think just like trying to be easier on yourself, 435 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 6: ask for help and know that things generally will get better, 436 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 6: even though initially they can look bad. You know, usually 437 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 6: you will learn to come to terms with your condition 438 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 6: and emerge wiser and stronger. 439 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 2: I love that. So that was kind of the family side. 440 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 3: You also, I think had a little bit of an 441 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 3: arc or of what you felt was your best use 442 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 3: of your talents and your career with what you're dealing with. 443 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: I don't think you're still seeing patients clinically, although maybe 444 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: I'm wrong about that. Maybe there's some of that. But 445 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 3: how did you navigate that piece? Because that can be 446 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: very tricky, especially when we're trained to do specific thing 447 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 3: and we feel like in some ways we owe it 448 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 3: to someone to do that thing perhaps, and yet there 449 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 3: are so many ways that we can be valuable in 450 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 3: the world. So I'm interested to hear how that played 451 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: out for you. 452 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you. You know that was a really tricky decision. 453 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 6: So I worked in doing patient care up until twenty fifteen, 454 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 6: many years after my diagnosis. I still continue doing that, 455 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 6: and then I've taken a break from patient care. I 456 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 6: moved to work for a care management company where we 457 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 6: design programs for people with Medicaid and Medicare, so still 458 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 6: kind of a vulnerable population, which is where my heart is. 459 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 6: And the programs are designed to help keep people out 460 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 6: of the hospital and the emergency room and keep them 461 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 6: as healthy as possible, and we provide a lot of 462 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 6: support with nurses, social workers, even have community health workers 463 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 6: who can do visits in the home sometimes, and so 464 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 6: I've been really involved in that. Over the last seven 465 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 6: years or so, I've done still some patient care. I 466 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 6: work at a clinic as a volunteer for people who 467 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 6: are homeless, So I still have that kind of perspective, 468 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 6: you know that just I keep it real with having 469 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 6: some patient care. But I'm also going undergoing a shift, 470 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 6: so I'm going to be starting back to doing more 471 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 6: patient care in the fall at a clinic for people 472 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 6: with MS specifically, and really doing some coaching around healthy lifestyle. 473 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 6: I'm getting board certif right in lifestyle medicine and really 474 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 6: just helping them live their best lives, which is what 475 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 6: I really believe is my purpose and passionate this time. 476 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm super excited for you. 477 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: That sounds like so like it'll be a lot of 478 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: fun but also incredibly rewarding and how wonderful for patience 479 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 3: to get to learn from someone who has at least 480 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: in some way been a little bit in their shoes. 481 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 3: Obviously every case is different, but that is yeah, yeah, 482 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 3: thank you so well. I was going to ask what's 483 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: next for you? But you answered my question. Tell everybody 484 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: where they can find you and your book, and if 485 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: they want to learn more about your journey, where should 486 00:23:59,520 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: they go. 487 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 5: Yeah. 488 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 6: So the book is called Up the Down Escalator. I 489 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 6: think we forgot to mention the title, but it's Up 490 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 6: the Down Escalator Medicine, Motherhood and Multiple Sclerosis. It's published 491 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 6: by Health Communications Incorporated, and it's distributed by Simon and Schuster. 492 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 6: It's easy to find in all the usual places, so 493 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 6: certainly on Amazon, hopefully at your local bookstore. If not, 494 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 6: ask them to order it. It's at a lot of libraries, 495 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 6: and it's on audible. I have an audiobook that I 496 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 6: narrated which is super fun, and I think you know, 497 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 6: the best way to find me is on my website, 498 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 6: which is Lisa Doggett D O G G E T 499 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 6: T dot com. And I also have a newsletter about 500 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 6: you know, health tips and updates that you can sign 501 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 6: up for on my website. 502 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: Very cool. 503 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 3: I just realized I have one more question for you. 504 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: Sorry. 505 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, first of all, we have to do Love 506 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: of the Week, and I guess I have one other 507 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 3: adjacent question. I'm sorry for this organization today, but in 508 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 3: terms of the navigation of the healthcare system piece, we 509 00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 3: kind of I just want to circle back to that 510 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 3: one more time. If you yourself are going through something 511 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: like this and don't necessarily have access to your clinic, 512 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 3: which sounds amazing that you're going to be participating in, 513 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 3: and you primed your maybe not getting answers or not 514 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 3: being listened to, or maybe you have a child, what 515 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: would your advice be for how to navigate this mess 516 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 3: we have to deal with especially Yeah, I'm true. 517 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 5: I'm so glad you asked. 518 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 6: It really is not an easy system. It's not set 519 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 6: up to be very very patient friendly, and I know 520 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 6: that firsthand. Now, you know, I think one thing to 521 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 6: remember is self advocacy is really important, so you know, 522 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 6: stay on top of your appointments, bring someone with you 523 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 6: to your appointments or to your child's appointments. 524 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 5: Take notes. 525 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 6: You know, getting someone to be there with you can 526 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 6: really be helpful. You definitely want to have a doctor 527 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 6: you trust. If you're not happy with your doctor, get 528 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 6: a different doctor, ask recommendations from friends and family. You 529 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 6: don't have to stay with somebody if you're not comfortable 530 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 6: with them. I think you have to be patient yourself. 531 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 6: You know, you might be spending some time on hold 532 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 6: asking about an unclear medical bill, for example, and I 533 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 6: have done that, and I've actually saved a lot of 534 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 6: money as a result of questioning certain things on bills. 535 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 6: And I think that you know, whether it's fighting an 536 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 6: insurance company over an unfair bill or calling multiple times 537 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 6: to get test results from your doctor, it's really important 538 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 6: to stand up for yourself and seek answers to your 539 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 6: health questions. 540 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 3: I love it, Okay, good, I just didn't want to 541 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 3: leave that part out. And now for our Love of 542 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 3: the Week, which I may not have warned you about, 543 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 3: but I feel like you're going to come up with something. 544 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 3: So every week on our episodes, we share one thing 545 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 3: in life that is bringing us joy. It can be 546 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: like totally abstract, it can be concrete. I will start 547 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 3: to give you a moment in that I finally saw 548 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: Barbie the movie and might be top five. Like I'm so. 549 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: I loved it, loved it, loved it, loved everything about it, 550 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 3: loved the commentary, loved the styling, love the actors, loved 551 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: loved it all. So that is definitely deserving of a 552 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: space in my Love of the Week this week. 553 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 5: Oh that's great. 554 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 6: I still need to go see it, so I'm glad 555 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 6: it was good. Okay, so my love of the week 556 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 6: will have to be my sister's mocktails. I am not 557 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 6: a big cocktail drinker, but the mocktails are really fun 558 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 6: and it's great because the weather here in Texas is 559 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 6: incredibly hot right now, so having a refreshing summer mocktail 560 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 6: is fantastic. She came over to celebrate my book launch 561 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 6: and made mocktails with ginger let's see, lime, blackberries, and 562 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 6: a little bit of holopano, and she left the mix 563 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 6: with me, so I've been making them all week. 564 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: That sounds delightful. 565 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 3: Ah well, I will link up to your book of 566 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 3: course in the show notes, so everybody can find you, 567 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 3: as well as your website. 568 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: Lisa. This was a delight. Thank you so much for 569 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: coming on. 570 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 571 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 4: Well, that was great. 572 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: Thank you Sarah and Lisa so much for sharing your 573 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: wisdom on navigating the healthcare system and how that can 574 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: be such a challenge. 575 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 4: So our question this week. 576 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: Comes from a person who has a mom who has 577 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: a nineteen month old and another baby on the way. 578 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 4: She says, after I had my first. 579 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: Child, I left a ten year career in management consulting 580 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: looking for a field that offered more balance. She took 581 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: a job that she wound up being incredibly underwhelmed by. 582 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: Maybe the balance was good, but she did not feel 583 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: challenged at all. And so now she's trying to figure 584 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: out what she should do after she comes back from 585 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: her maternity leave this second time around. Should she go 586 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: hunt for another job. Should she try to find another 587 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: opportunity within the organization, you know, because there's some other 588 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: people who are leaving. Should she just be happy that 589 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: she has this balance? Should she maybe try to work 590 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: on a startup idea that she wants to do. 591 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 4: So she's looking for our advice for that. So, Sarah, 592 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 4: what was what was your thought? 593 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 3: Well, you had such a great and detailed answer that 594 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: I do want to just add on to what you said, 595 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: but I do think, you know, the person kind of 596 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: asked a little bit about like, well, is it okay 597 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 3: to take my whole leave and then kind of give 598 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 3: my notice right at the end of the leave, and like, 599 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 3: I think we both acknowledge that's absolutely within your rights 600 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 3: as an employee. 601 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: You probably earned that leave. 602 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 3: And yet at the same time, my thought is like, 603 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 3: these worlds are very small, and especially if you do 604 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 3: that repeated numbers of times, it just may not leave 605 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 3: like the best taste in people's mouths necessarily, And it's 606 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 3: always better to leave an organization with everybody in good 607 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 3: terms because you never know where your next opportunity might 608 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: come from or circle back to or whatever. So I 609 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: guess I would just be a little bit careful working 610 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: through that and perhaps figuring out, even if you do 611 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 3: plan to leave afterward, what a good kind of reasonable 612 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 3: like exit timeline might look like. And then I was 613 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: just you know, the idea of a startup being great 614 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: if you were previously looking for balance, I feel like 615 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 3: that's to me, I mean, maybe this seems obvious, but 616 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 3: that probably is not going to provide necessarily that much balance. 617 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: The balance is going to come more from either having 618 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: a position of seniority or finding a company whose culture 619 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 3: really like emphasizes employee autonomy, or not being available twenty 620 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 3: four to seven, et cetera. 621 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so, I guess I didn't tee up 622 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: that question quite in the way the first yes. Her 623 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: first question was was it okay to take her leave 624 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: and then quit right afterwards? And yeah, agree with Sarah. 625 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: It's within your rights to do so because you accrued 626 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: the time. Probably as you know. That's why places won't 627 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: let you take it often unless you've been there a 628 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: year or something like that. But you might want to 629 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: think about it because that is one of the reasons 630 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: that young women in particular face some discrimination in the 631 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: job market and young mothers because people assume that they 632 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: will quit, which many of. 633 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 4: Our listeners do not. And so there's a separate question though, 634 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 4: of whether you know this question. 635 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: I gave a long answer to this listener because there 636 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: was a bigger point to me, which is that she 637 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: took this job that she's taking now because of the balance, right, 638 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: Like that was what she was seeking out in a job, 639 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: and I'm never sure that that's the right thing to 640 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: seek in a job. I understand that it can be 641 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: a perk of a job, but you can't eat balance right, 642 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: Like you don't live balance on a day to day 643 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: like balance is like that I have a lot of 644 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: good stuff going on in my life, right, And so 645 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: to me, that means that you have an interesting, challenging 646 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: job that you love, and you have a family situation 647 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: that you're also really enjoying as well too, because you're 648 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: doing cool things with your family, having you know, your 649 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: hobbies and all that. And so if you're taking a 650 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: job just because of like the hours or because they 651 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't require travel or whatever it is, I 652 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: think you're going to be bored. Like if you are 653 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: a smart, ambitious person, you're probably going to be bored 654 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: with that. 655 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 4: So I would say, seek out a. 656 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: Job that sounds interesting to you that you think will 657 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: be really challenging, and then work on the balance part, 658 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: because it's often part you can negotiate for things that 659 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: are balanced. You also might want to think about what 660 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: your mindset is of what balance means, like if you 661 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: travel for you know, like if you go in saying 662 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: I never want to travel, so I'm gonna look for 663 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: a job that I never have to travel, Like you're 664 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: limiting yourself in ways that you probably don't have to. 665 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what if you said, like, Okay, I can 666 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: be gone three nights a month, Like, well, that might 667 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: open up quite a lot of other opportunities. And there's 668 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: nothing unbalanced about be going three nights a month and 669 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: home for twenty seven, Right, that's not terrible. So like, 670 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,479 Speaker 1: don't go in with that mindset of like or I 671 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: want someplace that I'm never gonna have to stay after five? Okay, 672 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: Well what if it's that, like you have a project 673 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: that's always due at the end of every month, and 674 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: so yeah, you stay after five for like the two 675 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,719 Speaker 1: nights before that, Like is that so terrible? 676 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 4: Like would you be. 677 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: Willing to accept a more challenging job, like a more 678 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: higher paying job, a more interesting. 679 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 4: Job, and let you have that if you mostly have 680 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 4: a good balance. So I don't know. 681 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: I think I just had a problem with that frameming 682 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: And so whatever this listener winds up doing, I would 683 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: say for all of our listeners, balance. 684 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 4: Is a perk, not the bread and butter. 685 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: Right, go in with that mindset, and I think you'll 686 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: wind up with jobs that often are very balanced. I mean, 687 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: maybe I'm saying it's just because it's you know, she 688 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: was in management consulting for ten years, so she was 689 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: getting pretty senior at that point. And I can tell 690 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: you that by ten years in my husband had a 691 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: fair amount of control over his time. Now, whether he 692 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: always use that is a different matter. But in many 693 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: of these cases, the more senior you are, the more 694 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: autonomy and control you do have. 695 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 4: And so there's also a question of whether. 696 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: You are willing to push for that as well, like 697 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: whether you're willing to say no, here are my boundaries. 698 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: You know, I'm willing to do this, but you know 699 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: somebody else is going to do this, and it's okay, 700 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: Like you can also do that. 701 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 4: So balance is also what you make. 702 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 2: Of it, right. 703 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 3: I love it getting more clear also on what balance 704 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 3: even means, because it's does seem like an incredibly kind 705 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 3: of vague term when it may mean actually something very 706 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 3: specific to you, like you said, I don't want to 707 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 3: work late more than ten nights, you know whatever, that 708 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 3: those specifics are for you to actually reflect on what 709 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 3: they are. 710 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so with that, the question of the startup 711 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: is like, go ahead and start a company if you want, 712 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: but it's do it because you have an awesome business 713 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: idea that you want to see brought to fruition and 714 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: you want to run this company that's going to bring 715 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: this idea out into the world, not because it's like, oh, 716 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: that would be something cool and balanced I could do, right, 717 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: Like again, the balance is the perk that you could 718 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: then have as part of this company as you're hiring 719 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: people like, oh, yeah, we're all really cool people who 720 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: are awesome and ambitious and smart and also have other 721 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: things going on in our lives, and then that's the 722 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: culture you create. But the primary focus should be your 723 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: awesome business idea. So do whatever you want, but I 724 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: think figure out what you truly want to do to 725 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: have a cool career and then work on the balance 726 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: within that. 727 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 4: All right, this has been best of both worlds call. 728 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: Sarah was interviewing Lisa Dogget about up the doown Escalator staircase. 729 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 5: What was it? 730 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 3: Escalator? 731 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 4: Yes, escalator Yes. 732 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making 733 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: work and life fit together. 734 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. 735 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 736 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you. 737 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 738 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 739 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life 740 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: work together.