Speaker 1: This is the Dream Team Tapes, a Diversion Podcasts original
Speaker 1: series in association with I Heart Radio. This is the
Speaker 1: story of the United States Olympic basketball team that won
Speaker 1: gold in Barcelona, known worldwide as the Dream Team. No
Speaker 1: section of my book Dream Team got as much attention
Speaker 1: as the chapter I called the greatest game Nobody ever saw,
Speaker 1: which is exactly what I'm calling this episode six of
Speaker 1: the Dream Team Tapes. I'm Jack McCallum, and today I
Speaker 1: tell you what happened in Monte Carlo the week before
Speaker 1: the Dreamers went on to Barcelona for the Olympics. Some
Speaker 1: recap the team had its initial training in San Diego,
Speaker 1: went on to play the qualifying tournament in Portland. But
Speaker 1: Chuck Daily and the folks at USA Basketball didn't want
Speaker 1: to go to Barcelona cold, so they set up a
Speaker 1: week of pre Olympic training at a place where everyone
Speaker 1: goes when they want to train. Seriously, Monty Carlo. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: it was a brilliant move. Really. The players may not
Speaker 1: have wanted to practice, but they knew the good times
Speaker 1: they could have in Monte Carlo. It wasn't as sybaritic
Speaker 1: as you might think. Most of them brought along their families.
Speaker 1: The team was going directly for Monte Carlo to Barcelona,
Speaker 1: and I remember looking at them when they checked into
Speaker 1: the Low's Monte Carlo. It looked like a group family
Speaker 1: vacation of millionaires, which is exactly what it was. Strollers, luggage, babysitters,
Speaker 1: more luggage, more babysitters, more luggage. Charles Barkley was one
Speaker 1: of the few who was batching it, so the mind
Speaker 1: cannot begin to grasp what a great time he must
Speaker 1: have had in that have been for gamblers, models and
Speaker 1: folks with few money. The fact that they were there
Speaker 1: at all was a testament to the compromises made for
Speaker 1: the Dream Team, because in the early years of his
Speaker 1: tenure as Commissioner, the late Great David Stern was fervent
Speaker 1: the anti gambling, having grown up following the college basketball
Speaker 1: point shaving scandals that wrecked hoops in New York City
Speaker 1: for a long time. But he was also the leagu's guardian,
Speaker 1: and he recognized that a training camp and say, Fort Wayne, Indiana,
Speaker 1: was not the inducement he needed to get the players
Speaker 1: to buy in. So he began talking to a tennis buddy,
Speaker 1: New York Giants owner Bob Tisch, who also owned the
Speaker 1: Lowe's hotel, including a show piece property in Monaco. From there,
Speaker 1: Russ Grant, Externs Consigliari at the NBA and Lowe's chairman
Speaker 1: Robert Hausman negotiated the deal with the principality. Plus this
Speaker 1: was only months removed from the revelations coming to light
Speaker 1: about Michael Jordan's off court gambling debts and his association
Speaker 1: with a convicted coke dealer slash money launderer with the
Speaker 1: Elmore Leonardish name of James slim Boeller. The NBA investigated
Speaker 1: and released a statement There appears to be no reason
Speaker 1: for the NBA to take action again. Michael subtexts were
Speaker 1: embarrassed by this and wish he would stop. But there
Speaker 1: was Michael, along with many of the other Dreamers, gambling
Speaker 1: the night away in the Lows Casino entirely legally. It
Speaker 1: must be at it Magic. Johnson remembers one night watching
Speaker 1: Michael play. So I was sitting at his table, but
Speaker 1: not playing, just sitting it, and then he comes in.
Speaker 1: I said I was one. I'm wanted me a table
Speaker 1: up for you. So he says to me, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be your most expensive Chiley that you've ever had in
Speaker 1: you a lot. I'm gonna stand behind you, and cheered
Speaker 1: gold Jordan go. So he played all what is the
Speaker 1: end of five? Five? Five and five? N he was
Speaker 1: playing them all. They wrote up this table for him
Speaker 1: and he played all night. Now. Before the dream team arrived,
Speaker 1: the lows legendary hotel manager Henrie Lorenzi. I was told
Speaker 1: he was legendary. I don't really know how to rate
Speaker 1: the legendary nous of hotel managers, but anyway, Henri was
Speaker 1: complaining about what he perceived as the unnecessary level of
Speaker 1: security insisted upon by USA Basketball, which had sent in
Speaker 1: an advanced team of people. Lorenza's point was that millionaires
Speaker 1: and movie stars, monarchs and models dined and drank and
Speaker 1: gambled and gamboled in his hotel. So what was the
Speaker 1: big deal about a dozen guys and sneakers? Why tennis
Speaker 1: immortal Bjorn Borg is here right now, he told the
Speaker 1: NBA's Kim Bihooney. Then when the team bus pulled up,
Speaker 1: there was such a rush forward from the hotel guests
Speaker 1: where it had gotten around that two unfortunates crashed through
Speaker 1: the front doors of the entrance I see your point
Speaker 1: on there, said to Bihooni, probably in a marvelous French accent. Now,
Speaker 1: the scariest moment occurred a couple of days later, when
Speaker 1: the team was boarding a bus to go to practice.
Speaker 1: A driver lost control of his car while gaping at
Speaker 1: the Dream Team. And here was a scene described by
Speaker 1: Pete Scurich, the Pistons team videographer whom Chuck Daly had
Speaker 1: brought over to chronicle practices and Games. Were parked out
Speaker 1: front of the hotel, getting ready to go to practice,
Speaker 1: and this car that was parked up on the hill
Speaker 1: kind of a parking brate went out and it came
Speaker 1: down the hill and a crashing of the hotel had
Speaker 1: penned us in. And for like a split time, I
Speaker 1: thought this could be this could be terrorists. The Dream
Speaker 1: Team's arrival gave a whole new dimension to the phrase
Speaker 1: gap or delay, and the same thing would happen in Barcelona. Now,
Speaker 1: these trips to exotic locales always sound more bacchanalian than
Speaker 1: they really are, particularly for journalists, at least for this journalist.
Speaker 1: I was married. Nobody wanted to comport with me, though
Speaker 1: I did suffer the least sympathetic injury in sports writer history,
Speaker 1: a sprain thumb from operating the uncooperative controls of a
Speaker 1: jet ski that I had rented from a topless fender
Speaker 1: by the Lovely Mediterranean. It really hurts, I said to
Speaker 1: my wife, and a phone call shut up, she suggested.
Speaker 1: The most fun I had during this entire summer happened
Speaker 1: when Newsday writer Jan Hubbard and I joined Barkley and
Speaker 1: Drexeler for a round of golf at the Monte Carlo
Speaker 1: Country Club, which was not as upscale as the name suggests,
Speaker 1: though it did afford beautiful views. A golfing hierarchy had
Speaker 1: been established by this time. At the top was Jordan
Speaker 1: and Chuck Daily and whomever else was selected to play
Speaker 1: with them, and below that was everybody else, especially journalist
Speaker 1: Jan and Clyde, both with Texas roots, played against Charles
Speaker 1: and I, both with Philly connections. At that point, Charles
Speaker 1: had not suffered the bewildering sets of ticks and twitches
Speaker 1: that have turned his game into a mind puzzle of
Speaker 1: the first order, So I think it was a good match.
Speaker 1: I mean, who really cares. But it really got interesting
Speaker 1: when David Robinson joined us, thus creating an illegal Fivesome.
Speaker 1: I wish somebody had filmed it. David was at that
Speaker 1: time just getting comple with his Christian faith and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how it was supposed to work in
Speaker 1: a pro sports atmosphere where locker room language was pretty
Speaker 1: much everywhere. You know, it was something that was really
Speaker 1: emerging in my life, and uh, and I was just
Speaker 1: really understanding it for myself. And you know, in locker
Speaker 1: room is not the place where everybody they don't want
Speaker 1: to hear that stuff. You know that you go in
Speaker 1: there and you know guys are like, look, number one,
Speaker 1: Christian guys, they're soft. You know, they know they're not
Speaker 1: gonna cut your throat out when it's time, and we
Speaker 1: want somebody who's going to cut your throat that one
Speaker 1: it's time. And so I think that that was part
Speaker 1: of the kind of one of the first impressions that
Speaker 1: people had. But then the other one that people just
Speaker 1: didn't want to be around the guy and talking about faith.
Speaker 1: So David joins us, and our original foursome is cussing
Speaker 1: up a storm and David says something about toning it
Speaker 1: down very nicely, and we go another hole or two.
Speaker 1: But then Charles says some form of m effort to somebody,
Speaker 1: and David picks up his clubs and says he's going
Speaker 1: back to the range. He did it very nicely. He
Speaker 1: didn't get mad about it. He just as I wrote
Speaker 1: in Dream Team, smiled beatifically, indicated that he would rather
Speaker 1: not be around that kind of language, picked up his
Speaker 1: clubs and walked away. It was a lesson to me.
Speaker 1: He did it, his teammates accepted it, and that's the
Speaker 1: way it was. And as soon as David walked away,
Speaker 1: we began cussing again. Now on the way home, I
Speaker 1: was apparently driving the rental car a bit too, shall
Speaker 1: we say, haphazardly through the mountainous terrain of the rivieras
Speaker 1: on the same road where in two Princess Grace of
Speaker 1: Monico had suffered a stroke while driving, crashed her Rover
Speaker 1: Piece six, and died of injuries. The next day, we
Speaker 1: began speculating how the newspaper headlines would read if we
Speaker 1: died in a crash. Barkley Drexler, two others die and crash.
Speaker 1: Hubbard said, they'll just leave us out. Jan I said,
Speaker 1: Barkley Drexler die in Monte Carlo crash shit, said Barkley.
Speaker 1: They won't even care about Clyde Barkley did. That's all
Speaker 1: it would say, Oh, yes, basketball. Now. The Dream Team
Speaker 1: did practice, They did play an exhibition game against the
Speaker 1: French national team, and it was really, really lousy, except
Speaker 1: for the excited fans and the French coach whose name
Speaker 1: was Francis Jourdan spelled j O r d a n E,
Speaker 1: who figured that his name would give him special access
Speaker 1: to Michael Terry Lyons, one of the NBA's great public
Speaker 1: relations people, remembers that a group photo was taken and
Speaker 1: as Terry says, sure enough, there is your Dan with
Speaker 1: his arm around Jordan's. Now. Because the Dream Team's performance
Speaker 1: was so lousy, and I say that despite a one
Speaker 1: and eleven to seventy one margin of victory, Chuck Daily
Speaker 1: again began having thoughts that the Dream Team could possibly
Speaker 1: lose and he would be consigned to eternal damnation without
Speaker 1: a trial. And so he told the team at practice
Speaker 1: the day after the lousy game, We're gonna scrimmage. Stop
Speaker 1: screwing around, no matter what time you got in from
Speaker 1: drinking at Jimmy z S, a nightclub that opened at midnight.
Speaker 1: The most surprised and disappointed. Of the players was one
Speaker 1: l Bird remember that day because I came in there
Speaker 1: and I was over a stationary bike and that's where
Speaker 1: I were going to Steady, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: they're looking over you gotta played. John Stockton, c was
Speaker 1: still battling the injury he had suffered in Portland, and
Speaker 1: Clyde Drexeler had a sore nee throughout the Dream Team summer.
Speaker 1: In fact, Drexler had at Scope when he got back
Speaker 1: from Barcelona, and to his credit, he rarely spoke about it.
Speaker 1: That left ten players for the scrimmage, and that meant
Speaker 1: Bird had to play, and Daily divided up the teams.
Speaker 1: On one squad Jordan's Malone, Pippen, Bird and Ewing, and
Speaker 1: on the other Magic Barkley, Mullen, Robinson and Lightner. To
Speaker 1: this day, Jordan refers to it as East versus West,
Speaker 1: but Carl Malone, a Utah jazz man, is clear only
Speaker 1: not an Easterner, dividing up Jordan's Magic to find what
Speaker 1: happened next, As Dream Team assistant Mike Shaski put it
Speaker 1: to me in a remarkably unappealing metaphor, separating those two
Speaker 1: guys is what popped the pimple. But he's right now.
Speaker 1: The background, the Dream Team is practicing in the Stade
Speaker 1: Louis du and All Purpose Arena in Monte Carlo. There
Speaker 1: are a few people inside. Remember, we journalists could not
Speaker 1: watch practices, and on this day, Chuck Daly had kicked
Speaker 1: out a few USA Basketball reps who were not happy
Speaker 1: about it, and a few other assorted people. Chuck, one
Speaker 1: of the audience, lean and mean assistant P J. Car Lesimo,
Speaker 1: and a referee from Italy who had been hired by
Speaker 1: USA Basketball. I'll be damned if I ever could find
Speaker 1: out this guy's name, were handed whistles and daily told
Speaker 1: his charges to play for real. They did, but we
Speaker 1: the journalists, didn't know that until we showed up later
Speaker 1: for the post practice quotes, and there seemed to be
Speaker 1: tension in the air. Magic was clearly piste off about something.
Speaker 1: Jordan was strutting around, being more jordan Esque than usual.
Speaker 1: Gradually we found out that Jordan had beaten Magic's team
Speaker 1: in a heated scrimmage, and there had been a lot
Speaker 1: of trash talking, and over the years it became a
Speaker 1: kind of urban legend because not many people had seen it,
Speaker 1: and there was apparently no videotape. But when I started
Speaker 1: researching the book Dream Team, I figured somebody had it
Speaker 1: and I called up Pete Scorage, the Pistons videographer. I
Speaker 1: mentioned a couple of minutes ago, Pete, did you film
Speaker 1: every basketball minute from San Diego, Monte Carlo and Barcelona.
Speaker 1: He said, I think so, and I invited myself to
Speaker 1: his house, and after we watched c D after Seed,
Speaker 1: we finally stumbled upon it. For me, it was like
Speaker 1: the holy Grail. I was now about to see the
Speaker 1: greatest game that nobody ever saw. This is me informing
Speaker 1: Jordan that I had a tape of that game. We
Speaker 1: want to be like that on tape. What comes through
Speaker 1: in the tape is not the quality of play, though
Speaker 1: a few interesting things happen. It's the quality of the
Speaker 1: smack talk. And though it has come down through the
Speaker 1: years that it was a mass smack talking jamboree, really
Speaker 1: it was almost entirely Michael and Magic. This little bit
Speaker 1: will give you a flavor. As the game starts to turn,
Speaker 1: can we say inevitably towards Team Jordan's Magic begins complaining
Speaker 1: that the refs, well, really the ref because p J.
Speaker 1: Car Lesimo never blew his whistle is favoring Jordan's. That
Speaker 1: is the only did and moved the bull stadium right here.
Speaker 1: That's all they did. In case you didn't get all that,
Speaker 1: that was Magic and then me asking Pippen what Magic
Speaker 1: was saying him laughing about it, and then Magic clearly
Speaker 1: stating his opinion they just moved Chicago Stadium to Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1: What Jordan Magic were really doing was playing King of
Speaker 1: the Hill. Magic did not want to give up a spot,
Speaker 1: and Jordan was telling him exactly what the deal was.
Speaker 1: On more than one occasion he said, hey man, this
Speaker 1: is the nineties. The eighties are over. It was more
Speaker 1: than idle trash talk, and it was a moment in time,
Speaker 1: and the subject of whose league it was came up
Speaker 1: on several occasions. Now Magic backs off that a little
Speaker 1: bit these days, but that was exactly what was going on.
Speaker 1: As Larry Bird remembers, the best player in our league
Speaker 1: before that started, I had no problem. You know, we
Speaker 1: had our run. You know I had my run. My
Speaker 1: run was over. My run was over a couple of
Speaker 1: years before that. I think Michael really handles something very
Speaker 1: well over there. But is up there one night and
Speaker 1: we're talking and your mind you're making still repeat at
Speaker 1: this time. The conversation Bird is referring to took place
Speaker 1: during a night in Barcelona, which we'll get to in
Speaker 1: the next episode. But the idea of whose league it
Speaker 1: was was the subplot of this scrimmage. What had happened, say,
Speaker 1: was that Magic's team got off to an early lead
Speaker 1: and Jordan's team came back to win. The final was
Speaker 1: forty four to forty, but much of the blame has
Speaker 1: to be put on Magic. He got suckered into playing
Speaker 1: Jordan's game one on one, and later after it was over,
Speaker 1: Pippin told me that Barkley was upset that Magic had
Speaker 1: allowed himself to become a one on one player that
Speaker 1: was not Magic's m O, and his desire to go
Speaker 1: at Jordan's might have cost his blue team to win
Speaker 1: over Jordan's White team, which should not have mattered because
Speaker 1: what is blue and white? But really, watching Magic and
Speaker 1: Jordan's square off against each other, and I watched that
Speaker 1: tape dozens of times trying to pick out the best
Speaker 1: parts for the book provided an excellent opportunity to reflect
Speaker 1: on the arc of their careers. Now, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: Magic was a star from the first second of his
Speaker 1: rookie year. He won a championship, he was the finals
Speaker 1: m v P. The instant stardom that had been predicted
Speaker 1: for him was exactly what happened. But strangely, he should
Speaker 1: have been even bigger. He should have been the first
Speaker 1: Jordan's and he was not. Here's David Falk's shoes because
Speaker 1: they's a personality. And I thought that Michael had the style,
Speaker 1: the electricity, the charisma. Whods how good he was and
Speaker 1: he was to be very exciting to sell shoes. But
Speaker 1: I think Magic didn't have to Invanair Jordan's. He was
Speaker 1: Magic and College when he had the nickname, he was
Speaker 1: in the best market in the country. He won a
Speaker 1: championship as a rookie, back to back College in the pros.
Speaker 1: I mean, Magic should have been enormous. The market, had
Speaker 1: a great style. You know, he was flashy and and
Speaker 1: anyone at you could have owned the world at Margarine,
Speaker 1: and he had somebody, you know, confident representing him. There
Speaker 1: was no doubt about how good Magic was going to be.
Speaker 1: He was exactly as advertised. A six ft eight inch
Speaker 1: point guard with over the top leadership skills. But there
Speaker 1: were some doubts about Jordan's and let's remember that he
Speaker 1: was the third pick of the draft, not the first.
Speaker 1: Like Magic was a key. Malajawa went first in Kentucky
Speaker 1: center Sam Bowie went second to the Trailblazers who passed
Speaker 1: over Jordan because they already you know, had their Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's in Clyde Drexeler. People thought he'd be like Clyde
Speaker 1: Dresher type, like a guy the uncle free flash. I mean, truthfully, Jackie,
Speaker 1: if I went back out of my archives and took
Speaker 1: out my notes in draft, people questioned whether Michael had
Speaker 1: a good enough jump shot to shoot, whether he could
Speaker 1: really handle ball enough. And they knew he could jump,
Speaker 1: you know, they knew it could dunk. They had a
Speaker 1: lot of questions about his skills. That was David Falk. Again, Look,
Speaker 1: let's not shed any tears for Magic. He has turned
Speaker 1: himself into quite possibly the most successful athlete turn businessman ever.
Speaker 1: But as an endorser, he never got close to Jordan's
Speaker 1: and he should have been the first superstar endorser, the
Speaker 1: first true basketball crossover sensation. I also watched the tape
Speaker 1: again and again to compare Barkley and Karl Malone to
Speaker 1: an even greater degree than Michael Magic, who didn't play
Speaker 1: the same position. The matchup of the Dream Team was
Speaker 1: Barkley Malone both power forwards, so Charles was more the
Speaker 1: height of a small forward or even a guard. Malone
Speaker 1: didn't really want to get into the specifics of who
Speaker 1: was better, but Charles did. We talked about it here
Speaker 1: during my interview with Barkley for the Dream Team book
Speaker 1: would have been called Malone, Hey, We'll more places and
Speaker 1: quite more seasons. Wasn't a rebounder? You had more rebounding,
Speaker 1: wasn't a path But I don't think he did better
Speaker 1: score And that come down to farm. The law comes
Speaker 1: across as cocky, of course, but that's Charles. He respected
Speaker 1: the hell out of Malone, still does and they are
Speaker 1: good friends. What it always comes down to with Malone
Speaker 1: and Barkley is, Wow, what if Charles kept himself in
Speaker 1: the same kind of shape and worked as hard as
Speaker 1: the mailman did? How good would he have been? Then?
Speaker 1: One of the most interesting aspects of the greatest game
Speaker 1: nobody ever saw happened late, with the issue still in doubt,
Speaker 1: Bird who looks a hundred years old throughout most of
Speaker 1: the game, makes a steal and begins dribbling full speed. Okay,
Speaker 1: full speed for Bird at thirty five and bad back
Speaker 1: speed toward the basket with Barkley in hot pursuit. Okay,
Speaker 1: Barkley in hot pursuit after a night of carousing speed.
Speaker 1: When he gets near the basket, Bird fakes a behind
Speaker 1: the back past. He always had this knack of these
Speaker 1: exaggerated fakes that were really deceptive, and Bartley bites and
Speaker 1: Bird goes in for the layup. When I showed the
Speaker 1: clip to Chris Mullen, he calls to his wife, Hey, Liz,
Speaker 1: come here, watch Larry on this play. And when I
Speaker 1: asked Jordan if he remembered the play, he said, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've referred to this before among his own Dream Team teammates.
Speaker 1: There was this kind of reverence for Bird. Now, when
Speaker 1: the scrimmage was over and we the press were allowed in,
Speaker 1: we caught the sight of Jordan's singing be like Mike
Speaker 1: from the Gatorade commercial and Magic moping, and we knew
Speaker 1: something had gone on. And some of the better reporters,
Speaker 1: like Jan Hubbard, pieced together bits and pieces of the scrimmage,
Speaker 1: but we never thought would be able to see it
Speaker 1: in detail. So when I found the videotape and thank
Speaker 1: God for Pete Scurage, I was ecstatic because it was
Speaker 1: an archaeological discovery as much as anything, and what it
Speaker 1: demonstrated was not a boy's to men moment, but rather
Speaker 1: a men to boys moment. Just a bunch of superstar
Speaker 1: athletes playing like kids and reacting like kids. Winners act
Speaker 1: like Jerk's, losers act like spoil sports. So the greatest
Speaker 1: game nobody ever saw capt off Monte Carlo. It was
Speaker 1: on to Barcelona, where the world at large waited to
Speaker 1: see these guys. The attention and adulation can't get any bigger,
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, and boy was I wrong. See
Speaker 1: you next time for episode seven, Viva Barcelona. I'm Jack
Speaker 1: McCallum and thanks for listening. If you enjoyed The Dream
Speaker 1: Team Tapes, please follow, rate, and review wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. The Dream Team Tapes is written and hosted
Speaker 1: by Jack McCallum. Executive producers Mark Francis and Scott Waxman,
Speaker 1: executive producer for I Heart Media. Is shown to tone.
Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes is a Diversion podcast original series
Speaker 1: in association with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.