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Speaker 1: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Emily Hinkat.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with

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Speaker 2: women who dared to pivot out of one career and

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Speaker 2: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted

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Speaker 2: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Welcome back

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Speaker 2: she Pivots listeners today, I'm delighted to have Emily Hakati,

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Speaker 2: the CEO and founder of Fetite Plume, the sheekhest pajama

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Speaker 2: brand you ever did see. Even Prince George wears them.

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Speaker 2: But Emily's career didn't start dressing royals and luxury sleepwear.

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Speaker 2: She started in a much different place as a CIA

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Speaker 2: officer working abroad encounter terrorism. Growing up with big dreams

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Speaker 2: of seeing the world and a knack for picking up languages,

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Speaker 2: Emily found herself in the Foreign Service after working at

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Speaker 2: the White House straight out of college, and she loved it.

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Speaker 2: She met her husband at the agency, had four kids,

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Speaker 2: and built a life around the career she had dreamed

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Speaker 2: of since she was a kid, until she went through

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Speaker 2: a near death experience that changed her life. Before she

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Speaker 2: knew it, she was making her pivot, leveraging her skills

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Speaker 2: from the CIA, but now negotiating with factories and suppliers. Soon,

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Speaker 2: Petite Plume was born and has seen success after success.

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Speaker 2: What started as a small business has now grown into

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Speaker 2: a multimillion dollar household name. And I have to admit

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Speaker 2: for good reason, her pajamas are everything they promised to

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Speaker 2: be my kids and I love them. Emily's story and

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Speaker 2: pivot is truly one of a kind. We're so lucky

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Speaker 2: to have her with us today. Hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 1: My name is Emily Patte and I am the founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Petite Plum.

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Speaker 2: And what did you used to do?

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Speaker 1: I used to work as a operations officer for the

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Speaker 1: Central Intelligence Agency.

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Speaker 2: Oh so CIA to pajamas the natural path.

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Speaker 1: Another one is what you're thinking, right? Ah, can we

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Speaker 1: get a guest that doesn't have that background exactly?

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Speaker 2: Here? We get so many pitches the ciaa pajamas. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's a saturation at this point. Well, so I want

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Speaker 2: to go back, even even free and get a little

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Speaker 2: background here to understand, you know, what led you to

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Speaker 2: this point, what led you to these decisions? So let's

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Speaker 2: just start when you look where did you grow up?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Central Wisconsin, a little town called

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Speaker 1: Stephen's Point. It was a fantastic place to grow up.

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Speaker 1: It really is. We you know, I was told to

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Speaker 1: come home when the street lights turned on. It was

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Speaker 1: really that sort of a very idyllic upbringing where we

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Speaker 1: sort of had the run of the neighborhood. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I always knew that there was a bigger world

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Speaker 1: out there, and from a very young I wanted to

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Speaker 1: explore beyond. I think it was a big goal of

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Speaker 1: mine to get out of Steven's Point, Wisconsin. As wonderful

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Speaker 1: as it is, my mom said, I used to pretend

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Speaker 1: I was speaking foreign languages in the backyard. I really

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Speaker 1: don't know where that came from. I'm sure it must

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Speaker 1: have come through the television.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: There was a big world out there, and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: wait to see it. What did you think you were

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Speaker 1: going to do when you grew up? Besides get out?

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to do something international. I think there

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Speaker 1: was a little while I dreamt of being a veterinarian.

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Speaker 1: I think because I always had a passion for animals

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. I think at one point I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be an actress, and then my path definitely veered toward overseas.

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Speaker 2: So did you go to college in state or you left?

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Speaker 1: I went to a Notre Dame. I had a scholarship

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Speaker 1: for Notre Dame and I went there, and then I

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Speaker 1: had a postgraduate scholarship for Princeton, which I didn't take

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Speaker 1: because I was just anxious to see the world and

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Speaker 1: to get out and experience life. There was a point

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking I just don't want to study anymore,

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Speaker 1: and I thought I could go back and do the

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Speaker 1: scholarship later on, but I was on such a trajectory

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Speaker 1: with the Foreign Service exam and humming a diplomat. So

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Speaker 1: I went originally to the White House. So it was

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Speaker 1: sort of either go to Princeton for graduate work or

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Speaker 1: go to the White House. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the White House.

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Speaker 2: I mean, even just to go to the White House

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Speaker 2: right out of college is a huge accomplishment.

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Speaker 1: It is not the glamorous paycheck or anything. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the people at the White House are making barely

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Speaker 1: above the poverty. I think it's the privilege of working there.

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Speaker 1: I think the turnover rate at the White House with

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Speaker 1: something like ten months I was working as a waitress

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Speaker 1: in the evening, White House by day, waitress at Union

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Speaker 1: Station by night. So that tells you. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: was barely getting paid, and I was there for such

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Speaker 1: a short amount of time. I was a fly on

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Speaker 1: the wall. I already spoke three languages by the time

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Speaker 1: I was there. I had already lived in France, I

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Speaker 1: had already lived in Austria, so I spoke French, English,

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Speaker 1: and German. So I was sort of brought in. I

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Speaker 1: did what most people at that junior level, did whatever

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Speaker 1: they asked me to do. So I would read through papers,

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Speaker 1: I would deliver stuff. I would help if the correspondence,

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Speaker 1: the White House Correspondent section needed help, go help there.

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Speaker 1: We all kind of flexed around a lot. While I

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Speaker 1: was at the White House, my clearance came through and

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Speaker 1: I passed the Foreign Service exam, so I went to

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Speaker 1: the State Department. And then while I was at the

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Speaker 1: State Department, I got tapped on the shoulder, and that's

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Speaker 1: where I joke that I went over to the dark side.

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Speaker 2: The Foreign Service was a seamless transition. After Emily had

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Speaker 2: lived abroad in both high school and college. The experience

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Speaker 2: allowed her to become fluent in both French and German.

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Speaker 2: Building her toolkit that would become essential to realizing her

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Speaker 2: dreams of working abroad.

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Speaker 1: I think the key to picking up a language is

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Speaker 1: immersing yourself in it without a doubt. I think the

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Speaker 1: first time I went and lived in France, I lived

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Speaker 1: there for a month and I heard absolutely no English.

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Speaker 1: So it's very easy to pick up a language when

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Speaker 1: you were completely surrounded by another language. Then I started

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Speaker 1: studying German, and I went and I lived in Austria,

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Speaker 1: and I was living with a bunch of other Americans,

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Speaker 1: and you're much more prone to hang out with the Americans.

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Speaker 1: Birds of a feather flock together, and then you're speaking English.

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Speaker 1: So it took a lot more effort than to learn

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Speaker 1: to speak German fluently. You know, you get to a point,

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Speaker 1: certainly I did in France when I was dreaming in

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Speaker 1: French because that was all I was hearing. But if

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Speaker 1: you're constantly speaking your native language, then it kind of

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Speaker 1: inhibits the progress.

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Speaker 2: And did you do all of these things with a

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Speaker 2: goal in mind that you wanted to be a foreign

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Speaker 2: service officer? Like were you working towards a goal or

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Speaker 2: did these opportunities kind of come to you as you

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Speaker 2: were working.

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Speaker 1: Through I knew I wanted to do something overseas. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't quite sure what that was yet I was interested

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Speaker 1: in I would have learned Russian, Notre Dame. I was

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Speaker 1: very interested in that. It was like the vestiges of

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Speaker 1: the Cold War when I was little, like we still did,

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Speaker 1: you know, air rag drills and hide under our desks,

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Speaker 1: thinking that that would you know, protect us from a

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Speaker 1: nuclear war or a nuclear bomb. And I was very

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Speaker 1: much moving toward that. I didn't end up learning Russian

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Speaker 1: in college, but then I did actually start taking I

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Speaker 1: had one Russian lesson and it was on September tenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one. So I started heading toward a career.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was hired sort of for the government

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Speaker 1: to sort of speak Russian, et cetera, et cetera. And

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Speaker 1: eleven happened, and now my fourth language is Arabic.

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Speaker 2: How drastically I can imagine it did change your trajectory.

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Speaker 2: How drastically do you think it changed your immediate circumstances.

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Speaker 1: I think I was already veering into counter terrorism work.

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Speaker 1: I started out I think sort of focused on we

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Speaker 1: were still again, I think as a government, we were

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Speaker 1: still in the vestiges of the Cold War, and everything

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Speaker 1: changed on nine to eleven. Everything became counter terrorism sort

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Speaker 1: of protecting us against threats sort of. I can't underscore

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Speaker 1: how much everyone's life changed from the side of certainly

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Speaker 1: the government and counter terrorism and everything. We didn't have

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Speaker 1: enough Arabic speakers, we didn't have enough people getting through

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Speaker 1: the clearance process and so on to surge as we

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Speaker 1: needed to all the embassies overseas. It was about protecting

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Speaker 1: Americans going forward, and we have to be right one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time. It's about working with the

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Speaker 1: CIA and sa FBI. There was a lot going on

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Speaker 1: then if you remember, and we have to be right

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent of the time and the terrorists only

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Speaker 1: have to be right once. To really create that impact.

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Speaker 2: I imagine that it must come at a lot of

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Speaker 2: personal sacrifice to you to be working in those kinds

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Speaker 2: of roles. Did you feel like that kind of urgency

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Speaker 2: increased on nine to eleven, Like, did you personally change.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Another thread throughout my life is I

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Speaker 1: wanted to create impact, and I went sort of toward

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Speaker 1: the White House to create impact than the State Department.

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Speaker 1: And after nine to eleven, there was no doubt that

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Speaker 1: our mission was clear. We were going to go to

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Speaker 1: protect you know, US citizens. We were going to go

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Speaker 1: help you get rid of Saddam Hussein. There was this

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Speaker 1: real clear mission. And as much as I was in

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Speaker 1: Baghdad after the invasion, for me, the mission was clear.

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Speaker 1: It didn't feel like a sacrifice to me because I

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Speaker 1: was doing something that was really impactful. And there's another

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Speaker 1: part of it that's important. When I was in Baghdad,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have kids yet. I think I was fearless.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to make an impact. We were doing really

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Speaker 1: good work. I was there before there was a green zone.

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Speaker 1: You know, Saddam Musin was still around. There was so

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Speaker 1: many unknowns that we were working to fill in that

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Speaker 1: I feel like the mission was really pure. I remember

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Speaker 1: getting ready for a mission and even we were out

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Speaker 1: at the Bagden International Airport before the way there was

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Speaker 1: a green zone, and just to go meet someone downtown,

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Speaker 1: you had to go down this road that exited the

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Speaker 1: airport and it was called RPG Alley, and it was

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Speaker 1: called that because there were apartments on both sides of

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Speaker 1: the road and people would line up there with shoulder

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Speaker 1: held missiles and they could shoot them at your armored vehicle,

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Speaker 1: and there's no armored vehicle that's a high enough level

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Speaker 1: that could sustain that without injury. So you're taking a

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Speaker 1: risk every time you leave the doors of just to

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Speaker 1: go to your meeting. So I remember standing there getting

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Speaker 1: ready to go out on this meeting, and there was

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Speaker 1: a new officer who had arrived in country and he

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Speaker 1: was shaking. And he's somebody I really respected, I'd done

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Speaker 1: through training with, and he was absolutely shaking like a leief.

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Speaker 1: And I looked over at him and I remember thinking, God,

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Speaker 1: I should be really nervous right now, but I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't. I knew what I had to do. I

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Speaker 1: knew where we were going, I knew the mission. And

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Speaker 1: the interesting parts of that is that when you are

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Speaker 1: doing an operation for the agency, you prep for it,

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Speaker 1: you make sure everything is lined up. Then you do

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Speaker 1: this operation where you're probably really it's very stressful. You're

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Speaker 1: moving at one hundred miles per hour. It's really intense,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the best word. And then whether it's one

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Speaker 1: day or a few hours or whatever the operation is,

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Speaker 1: then you're back at the embassy or wherever you are,

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Speaker 1: and you're writing up really boring cables, so you're all

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Speaker 1: of your stress levels go way way down.

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Speaker 2: When we come back. Emily gives us a peek behind

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Speaker 2: the curtain of her day to day life as a

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Speaker 2: CIA officer, especially as a woman in the field of men.

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Speaker 1: First of all, there are so many different jobs within

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Speaker 1: the agency. You know, there's the analyst jobs, and there's

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Speaker 1: the targeting jobs, and there's all kinds of things. I

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Speaker 1: happen to be one of the ones that you know,

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Speaker 1: we handle assets, we spot assessed, develop and recruit espiena,

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Speaker 1: we commit espina. We're the case officers, are the ones

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Speaker 1: who are out there doing the street work when you're

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Speaker 1: let's again take bag Dad out of it, because bag

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Speaker 1: Dad was very different. It's a war zone. All the

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Speaker 1: other locations are much more traditional where you're doing much

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Speaker 1: more traditional espionage, you know, which is sort of I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can read about it in some of the books

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Speaker 1: and so on, but you're working your local environment to

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Speaker 1: hopefully spot, assess, develop, and recruit. You know, more Russians

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Speaker 1: are recruited on the continent of Africa than anywhere else,

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Speaker 1: you know, So I mean there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: these things happening outside of Moscow or outside of Pyongyang

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Speaker 1: or outside of you know that sort of thing. There's

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Speaker 1: really valuable work being done all over the world.

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Speaker 2: I think there's been, like over the past I don't

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Speaker 2: even think the recent years, but you know, maybe like

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Speaker 2: the decade before that. I think a lot of discussion

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Speaker 2: about like women on the in the private sector, like

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Speaker 2: in business, women being not like purposely not supportive, sort

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Speaker 2: of like crabs in a barrel like of other women

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Speaker 2: in business. That was never my experience working in politics,

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Speaker 2: I always had very supportive women bosses, women mentors, like,

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Speaker 2: very so portive of me. Did you feel like the

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Speaker 2: vibe was one or the other that women were purposely

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Speaker 2: supporting one another.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, women are very supportive of each other to the

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Speaker 1: best that we can. That god, we're in war zones.

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Speaker 1: There weren't a whole lot of women to be supportive of.

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Speaker 1: When I was in Begdad, I think I was one

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Speaker 1: woman in like a thousand men. And then I certainly

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Speaker 1: have every step of the way made it very purposely,

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Speaker 1: tried to help any other junior officers and stuff to

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Speaker 1: that extent. Who are women Because there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of challenges being a woman. I think in any career,

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Speaker 1: and certainly at the agency, where you would be remissed

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Speaker 1: not to know the different challenges of being a woman

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Speaker 1: versus being a male case officer, which is you can

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Speaker 1: probably get some of the meetings that your colleagues can't,

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Speaker 1: but then you also have to you have other challenges.

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Speaker 1: I feel like women were purposely supporting one another, but

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Speaker 1: I think largely, especially case officers, there were so few

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Speaker 1: of us that I think there was a I felt recently.

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Speaker 1: I met up with one of my mentors there and

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Speaker 1: she was she was incredible, and she was there were

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Speaker 1: even less women case officers when she was there, and

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Speaker 1: it was this idea of really helping develop and how

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Speaker 1: the agency has to do better of also helping be

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Speaker 1: flexible enough for women who want to have children and

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Speaker 1: be flexible enough with their careers. It is very difficult

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Speaker 1: to continue to move forward, and you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it, as I mentioned, happens outside of that nine

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Speaker 1: to five, So that starts getting trickier when you have

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Speaker 1: a family and you have other obligations.

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Speaker 2: And things were trickier. Even dating was a challenge. She

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Speaker 2: traveled constantly and was often on dangerous missions. Still, she

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Speaker 2: eventually met her husband at the agency the perfect match,

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Speaker 2: as they both understood the flexibility needed to succeed in

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Speaker 2: this field.

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Speaker 1: And given the nature of the work, it is difficult

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Speaker 1: when you're traveling as much to date outside of the agency.

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Speaker 1: I think, because you are traveling, how many men are

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Speaker 1: there that can move every three years, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: if you don't kind of get somebody who can travel

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Speaker 1: around you, I mean there are definitely seriously challenged, serious challenges,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of women I think who have fallen

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Speaker 1: through those fallen into those challenges. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 1: challenging and you're moving constantly and you're traveling, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressures of work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So talk us through your mindset as you decided

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Speaker 2: to start having kids. Did you decide to start having

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Speaker 2: kids and how did you think about staying in your

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Speaker 2: career at that point or did you think of it.

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Speaker 1: I was a little older when I started having kids.

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Speaker 1: I was already pushing thirty, so I already knew I

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Speaker 1: was good at my job. I already knew, you know,

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Speaker 1: life overseas, I'd been through some of the tougher ones.

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Speaker 1: I think, certainly with the agency, some of your toughest

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Speaker 1: assignments are when you're also youngest, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: to cut your teeth. I think it's like that to

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Speaker 1: be a journalist as well, as you sort of have

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Speaker 1: to cut your teeth in some of the tougher areas,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, you get to a certain point

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Speaker 1: where you know maybe you're not doing the more dangerous

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Speaker 1: things and so on. It was very intentional to start

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Speaker 1: having a family, and it was challenging. I was in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East when I had my first one. I

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Speaker 1: was an Asia when we have our second. I was

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Speaker 1: in East Africa when I had we had our third

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Speaker 1: and fourth, so it was, you know, it was very different.

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Speaker 1: It was a very different feeling to be constantly on

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Speaker 1: the move. We were metavacked with my third and my

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Speaker 1: husband was just getting back from Iraq, and I had

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Speaker 1: him on a Friday, and we packed out on Wednesday

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Speaker 1: and we were in DC by the following Friday getting

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Speaker 1: ready for our overseas. The soonest we can fly out

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Speaker 1: with a newborn is six weeks, so instead of working

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Speaker 1: on a nursery, I was packing out. Think about it.

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Speaker 1: I had a baby on Friday and the mover showed

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Speaker 1: up on Wednesday, four days five days later. A week later,

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Speaker 1: I was already in DC, living, you know, in an airbnb,

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Speaker 1: and then at six weeks we flew into East Africa,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you don't even think about it because

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Speaker 1: everybody you know is working for the government and they're

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Speaker 1: kind of in that same mindset as like, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: you are doing your metavac, You're you know, this is

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Speaker 1: just how it goes. That is who is surrounding you

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Speaker 1: at the embassy, and I'm talking about the embassy in general.

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Speaker 1: And it's very interesting. The State Department all the way

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Speaker 1: up until the birth of our last son, which is

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Speaker 1: only seven years ago, did not consider it essential to

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Speaker 1: have the husband at the birth. So you had to

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Speaker 1: use your home leave. You had to pay for your

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Speaker 1: own flight to get the husband to the birth, which

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Speaker 1: is crazy, right with all their in this era of

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Speaker 1: maternity and paternity, and I believe it's so important for

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Speaker 1: a lot of these family initiatives and to really give

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Speaker 1: paid leave to mothers and fathers. I think that it

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Speaker 1: was just such a throwback to see how even the

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Speaker 1: State Department was treating it up until recently. There were

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Speaker 1: so many things when even the old cable system was

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Speaker 1: from world War two. When we first started, it didn't

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Speaker 1: even allow like capital letters and small letters, and that changed,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe ten years ago. But there were just

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Speaker 1: a little things that are just like the government is

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Speaker 1: on the cutting edge of some things and very much

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Speaker 1: not in other things.

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Speaker 2: After the break, Emily shares the harrowing story of the

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Speaker 2: near death experience that made her pivot out of Foreign services.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about what made you leave.

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Speaker 1: So I very much enjoyed my job and the impact

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Speaker 1: it was making. I enjoyed the people I was working with.

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Speaker 1: Some of the very best and brightest are There are

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Speaker 1: people who are really hard working, dedicated, you know, frontline

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Speaker 1: for sure. But I was on there was a particular

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Speaker 1: day where everything sort of was called into question. And

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Speaker 1: it's tough to live overseas, especially with three four small children. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I was on my way to a high threat mission

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Speaker 1: and I was on a plane heading over the Indian Ocean,

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Speaker 1: and we hit a storm and the plane started to

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Speaker 1: spin out of control and the lights went out and

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Speaker 1: people were screaming, and the plane was literally heading toward

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Speaker 1: the water. And as I was getting ready to almost

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Speaker 1: feel the impact, all I could see were the faces

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Speaker 1: of my three little boys at home, and the youngest

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Speaker 1: one wasn't a year old yet, and all I could

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Speaker 1: think about was I felt this wave of profound sadness

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Speaker 1: that they were going to grow up without a mom.

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Speaker 1: And that was a really pivotal moment for me, when

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Speaker 1: you suddenly think they didn't sign up for this, They

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Speaker 1: didn't sign up to have a mom encounter terrorism. So

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Speaker 1: from that moment on, you know, the plane corrected. I'm here,

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Speaker 1: but it was very clear to me that I had

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Speaker 1: made an impact in that line of work, and now

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Speaker 1: I wanted to find something else that could keep me safe.

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Speaker 2: Emily started slowly, one step at a time, but was

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Speaker 2: still living in East Africa at the time.

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Speaker 1: There's no great time to start a business, but certainly

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Speaker 1: not when you're living in East Africa. You have a

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Speaker 1: full time job and you have three little kids at home.

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Speaker 1: But there's never a good time. And you just have

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Speaker 1: to do that because you owe it to yourself and

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Speaker 1: you owe it to your family to put one foot

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Speaker 1: in front of the other and sort of start and

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Speaker 1: matchal And that was sort of how Petitpoon started.

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Speaker 3: In a sun drenched living room in suburban Chicago, decades

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Speaker 3: old government secret hidden behind carefree smiles in family photos.

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Speaker 2: Feel that's fashion.

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Speaker 3: Entrepreneur Emily Hiccaate now ready to share her story.

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Speaker 2: You had a prior, so was the decision to try

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Speaker 2: to find a different professional, like a different occupation, and

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Speaker 2: then you tried different products. But was it always product

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Speaker 2: funded or was it always product focused or was it

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Speaker 2: always pajamas?

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Speaker 1: I think as I started looking at the market, I

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Speaker 1: think a few things played into hand. One as I

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Speaker 1: had these wonderful memories when I was a little girl,

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Speaker 1: My grandmother always used to gift us every Christmas pajamas.

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Speaker 1: I think all the grand kids got pajamas, and they

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Speaker 1: were the ones with lots of ruffles and frill nightgowns

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Speaker 1: and everything. And those are really special memories when I

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Speaker 1: look back at those gifts that she gave to all

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Speaker 1: of the cousins and so on, and you'd have a

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Speaker 1: moment where everybody would put them on and it was

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Speaker 1: you know, I have really warm memories of that. And

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Speaker 1: when I looked at the I looked at the market,

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Speaker 1: I thought I saw a white space for you know,

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Speaker 1: children's pajamas that were very classic. We started out just

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Speaker 1: in children's sleepwaar and nightgowns and so on, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I saw a gap in the market, and I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to, you know, reinvent the wheel. I

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Speaker 1: just needed to sell enough pajamas to be able to

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Speaker 1: replace my government salary. Was how I was originally thinking

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Speaker 1: of it. I wasn't thinking of launching a multimillion dollar

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Speaker 1: company that was going to bring me here and sitting

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Speaker 1: here in front of you. At the initial start, I

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Speaker 1: was just thinking that I wanted to keep myself safe

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Speaker 1: from my kids.

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Speaker 2: Ever, the savvy woman Emily leveraged her skills as a

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Speaker 2: negotiator and the power of the Internet to make it happen.

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Speaker 1: So I knew how to go in, get samples, make

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Speaker 1: sure the samples were good, negotiate price points, negotiate shipping, landing.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was just one step at a time,

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Speaker 1: one step at a time, but man, it was a lot.

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Speaker 1: I was involved in every single piece of it. I

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Speaker 1: was the only employee for several years. We eventually moved

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Speaker 1: back to the US in twenty eighteen, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we really decided to give it a go and customer service.

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Speaker 1: I would put my kids to bed and then I

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Speaker 1: would respond to customer service calls through my Skype, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it really was. The early days were really something.

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Speaker 1: We kind of made it to the other side.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and how did you scale?

436
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: I think I always set it up to scale, insofar

437
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: as I didn't. I wasn't fulfilling out of my house.

438
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: That would have been very difficult given the location. But

439
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: we had a fulfillment center early on. The delivery was

440
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: coming in from various places overseas. We have stuff made

441
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: in Peru, Portugal, Spain, Asia. Everything goes to our fulfillment center.

442
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: And then we got a one eight hundred number that

443
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: was staffed by a messaging service, which was also critical

444
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: because now they could provide twenty four hour customer service.

445
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: Because occasionally I did have to sleep, sure or it's

446
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: a weakness I have, but sleep is occasionally required to

447
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: do it all. So I think that that was It

448
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: was a lot easier when I was local. And you know,

449
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: there was something else that was sort of missing. When

450
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: I was in East Africa. I felt like I was

451
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: the first person starting a company. I didn't have friends

452
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: I could talk to. I couldn't say hey, did you

453
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: run into these challenges. One of the big things that

454
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: opened up for me was networking and the power of networking.

455
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: I went to I think we went to our first

456
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 1: trade show in I want to say twenty seventeen, and

457
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: that just started opening doors. And I started listening and

458
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 1: asking people what's working for them, what's not. You have

459
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: to be really cautious, and I think one of my

460
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: strengths is that I don't have the hubris of thinking

461
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: that I know at all. But I know what my

462
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 1: strengths are and what my weaknesses are. And I listened, Hey,

463
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: what are the challenges. You know, people who companies who

464
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: have almost gone out of business because they went into

465
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: the majors without checking the terms. You know, that's really important.

466
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: And I think early on I joke that I might

467
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: have sold my grandmother up a river to get into

468
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: Even Marcus. But in the end, when we did go

469
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: into Even Marcus, we did it very strategically. You know,

470
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: we did drop ship only so that we negotiated terms.

471
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: We were very care which is the way to approach it,

472
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: because sometimes if you're not reading that you can get

473
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, the returns at the end of the season.

474
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: Companies have gone out a business because they get millions

475
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: of dollars of returns that show up in their warehouse

476
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: and they've already spent the money on the next season.

477
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: What do you consider your strengths and weaknesses.

478
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: I think on my feet. I think I know what

479
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm good at and what I'm not, and I hire

480
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: into my weaknesses. You know, I cannot design a website,

481
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: Please don't ask me to. But then you can hire

482
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: people to design your website, you know. I think branding

483
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: is something that I think is really important to a

484
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: company and quality. We've really focused on the quality of

485
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: the sleepwear. There was nothing about my story on the website.

486
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: You still can't find anything about it. I really built

487
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: a brand that I wanted the quality of the sleepwear

488
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: to stand for itself. I think that it was this

489
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: idea of home. When we're in our pajamas, we're home,

490
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: we're safe, we're with our family, We're with the things

491
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: that matter most to us. I think that was something

492
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: that was really compelling for me, coming from a job

493
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: where you weren't always safe and you were taking risks.

494
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: As I got more into it, I learned about all

495
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: of these flame retardant rules that are I'm not sure

496
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: everybody realizes, but you have to children's pajamas from the

497
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: age of nine months all the way to fourteen have

498
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: to sustain a direct flame for three seconds without igniting.

499
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: And what some companies can do is put one hundred

500
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: percent cotton on the label and then dip them in chemicals,

501
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: a lot of chemicals enough to sustain one wash and

502
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: then fifty washes, and they don't have to put anything

503
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 1: about the chemicals on the label. So I early on

504
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: had learned about this, and I committed myself to making

505
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: children's pajamas without any chemicals. You know, we didn't cut

506
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: any corners. We did yarn died. We figured out our

507
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: first pajama prototypes were made in the same factory as

508
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: fireman's uniforms, and then we started perfecting it. And what

509
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: we did was we blended an inherently flame retardant fiber,

510
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: think of a tweaked roll, and we blended it with cotton,

511
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: which allowed us to pass some of these strict laws

512
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: without using any chemicals. And I'm really proud of that,

513
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: and so that was something else that I could bring

514
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: to the market. It was really tough, it was really expensive.

515
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: We have to test everything before we import it, but

516
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: we created something really special and in the first year

517
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: we were in two hundred stores. But I think it's

518
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: really important that we use natural ingredients as much as

519
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: we can and then avoid all chemicals.

520
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: How did you get Prince George to wear your pajamas?

521
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: It's this wonderful thing called serendipity. I honestly it was

522
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: a very That was a very dark another very dark

523
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: moment in my life when I had had my fourth son.

524
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: But in the end I ended up getting metavacked early

525
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: back to the US and I ended up spending what

526
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: was the last Christmas with my dad. So my dad

527
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: passed away two weeks after my fourth son was born.

528
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: So at this time my husband had used up his leave,

529
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: he was back in Africa. I had four small children

530
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: and my had just died, and I was on my

531
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: own in Wisconsin. And it was hard. It was really hard.

532
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: There were moments where you know, I was just just

533
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: keep putting one foot in front of the other. I

534
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: was still running a company, a little baby company at

535
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: that time too, and I remember sort of in those

536
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: darkest moments, then you know, I got a head called

537
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, what else can

538
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: possibly happen? And somewhere along the way I get home,

539
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: I collapsed into bed, exhausted. After I got all the

540
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: kids to bed. I woke up the next morning and

541
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: Prince George was wearing our pajamas.

542
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 4: Prince George meet the Obama's The first family made a

543
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 4: surprise appearance to Kensington Palace on Friday to have dinner

544
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 4: with the royal family is.

545
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: The cutest moment of international diplomacy. Prince George was introduced

546
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 5: to sitting President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama

547
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen. Not only was the two year old

548
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 5: a little shy when meeting the president, but he just

549
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 5: so happened to be wearing his pajamas and a tiny

550
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 5: white robe.

551
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: That was how we got the jama's different stopt. I

552
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: feel like there's karma involved in this somehow, because we

553
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: really weren't gifting the royal family. We weren't there yet.

554
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: But it was a big moment.

555
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: What is something that at the time you saw as

556
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: a negative, a low point, something that was not going well,

557
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 2: and now in retrospect you see it as having really

558
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: been a positive and potentially launched you.

559
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: I would go back to the plane. It was one

560
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: of the worst moments of my life, but it was

561
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: also one of the most pivotal. And sometimes it takes

562
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: something like that to sort of shake you and get

563
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: you going on a different path because there's a different

564
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: journey ahead for you. In hindsight, I wish it would

565
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: have been a little less dramatic, because I tend to

566
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: now relive it when people ask me that pivot moment,

567
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: and it's hard to talk about it without being right

568
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: back on that plane. Do you think you'll pivot again?

569
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: I love the journey. I love knowing every time what's

570
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: around the corner, and so I'm sort of open to this.

571
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: I love running this company, and I think we're just

572
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: getting started. I want to say that this is the

573
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: great thing about running a company. I certainly am not

574
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: going to get bored, because running a company that is

575
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: at one million is so different than ten million, than

576
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: twenty million. Then every couple of years even less, it

577
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: feels like you're running a whole different company, because now

578
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: it's not about me arranging shipping, it's not about me

579
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: dealing with customers anymore. It's much more management. It's much

580
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: more inspiring. It's getting the right people in the right seats.

581
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: It's a very different job than it was early on,

582
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: which was just jack of all trades. You just did everything.

583
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: We have been purveyors, customers of yours. My kids have

584
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: your pajamas and they love it. They love the very traditional,

585
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: like the button pajama. Look, my kids and I wear

586
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: matching pajamas every night. Oh my god for it.

587
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 1: Well fantastic.

588
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: We wear matching pajamas every night. It was when we

589
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: started during the pandemic of like which kid got to

590
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: choose what we would all wear that night? And it

591
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: has continued.

592
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: And these are memories your kids are going to have forever,

593
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: that you're going to have forever. Seem like, mom, remember

594
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: when we were little and we used to dress up

595
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: in matching pajamas the same way that I hold those

596
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: memories that my grandmother gave you know, us pajamas years ago.

597
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: But those are really special and I feel very privileged

598
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: to have a small small piece in those memories, to

599
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: create those moments where you can dress up together. And

600
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, we do bridal and so now we're at weddings,

601
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: we do a maternity so mommy matching from maternity. We

602
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: do giftables, you like sort of your gift as you

603
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: go off to the hospital. We have this tiny little

604
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: piece and these wonderful memories that really are the fabric

605
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,479
Speaker 1: of what life is all about. And that's what I

606
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: love is it's really there's those big moments, but really

607
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: it's those small moments that put us all together, not

608
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: just you know, it's every night. It's that you guys

609
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: are reading stories and matching pajamas every night while mom

610
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: falls asleep reading a book. I absolutely love that.

611
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Emily. It's been so great

612
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: and so interesting to have you on.

613
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. I loved

614
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: every minute of it.

615
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: Emily lives a much quieter life in the Chicago area

616
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: with her husband and four sons and continues to build

617
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: Petite Plume. Channeling her fearless energy into her business has

618
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: clearly worked as the company continues to grow. Be sure

619
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: to check out all of their amazing and adorable pajamas

620
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: at petit dash plume dot com, and you can stay

621
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: up to date with Emily on Instagram at Emily Hacati.

622
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening to this

623
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: episode of She Pivots. If you made it this far,

624
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: you're a true pivot so thanks for being part of

625
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: this community. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if

626
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: you did leave us a rating, please be nice.

627
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: Tell your friends about us.

628
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram

629
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our

630
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,

631
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: or on our website she pivots the Podcast talk to

632
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: You Next Week special thanks to the she pivots team,

633
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: Executive producer Emily eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media

634
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics

635
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: coordinator Madeline Snovak, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock

636
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: I endorse che Pivots