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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug golly Bean. This is the

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Speaker 1: latest version of All Ball, the podcast everybody is talking about.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, sometimes we talk other sports, not just basketball,

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Speaker 1: but man, I just love getting these basketball stories. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you've downloaded All Ball in the past, you know

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Speaker 1: that I had Part one with Frank Martin and we

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Speaker 1: recorded Part two shortly thereafter, and then I recorded the

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Speaker 1: Ron Baker podcast, which was about his life, his upbringing,

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Speaker 1: his story, his succession at or ability to have success

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Speaker 1: at which to State after being a walk on red

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Speaker 1: shooting his first year, get all the way to the

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Speaker 1: final for what really happened with Greg Marshall when he

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Speaker 1: was there? I mean it was amazing. And then we

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Speaker 1: talked about his NBA journey and what he's doing now

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Speaker 1: and what what his next phase. It looks like he's

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Speaker 1: gonna shut down his basketball career because of three surgeries

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Speaker 1: in four years. Download that one if you missed it.

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Speaker 1: But you know that we had Frank Martin, And if

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard Part one of Frank Martin, you want

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Speaker 1: to don't know that it's amazing because we took you

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Speaker 1: up to the spot where he got the Kansas State

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Speaker 1: job and his story for what he his reaction when

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Speaker 1: he was actually off of the job is where we

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Speaker 1: left off. So this is part two, a different discussion

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Speaker 1: and really really interesting perspective a guy who's now been

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Speaker 1: a head coach for over a decade two schools, why

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Speaker 1: he left, why he hasn't become the head coach in

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Speaker 1: Miami where he's a legend, and and what the next

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Speaker 1: wave is at South Carolina program that he finally got

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Speaker 1: to the final four, and plus what he learned from

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Speaker 1: Kansas State that he believes allowed him to take that

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Speaker 1: and remember they got to the lead at the Kids State,

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Speaker 1: got to the final four in South Carolina, what he

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Speaker 1: learned from the Elite eight game, and what it was

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Speaker 1: like to to win that Elite eight game in Madison

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Speaker 1: Squared Square Garden in New York City. Let's get to it.

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Speaker 1: Here's my second part of a discussion with Frank Martin.

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Speaker 1: All Right, as promised, Frank Martin returns, and UM, I

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Speaker 1: really want to again, I really really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Um I'll take us back to where we left off.

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Speaker 1: But let me start with kind of the news of

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Speaker 1: the day. We're getting Duke's first game postponed Baylor Arizona State,

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Speaker 1: not head to Mohegan's son. Uh, what where are you

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Speaker 1: in your program on this season? Get enough underway on time? Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I never bought into this, all these so called uh

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Speaker 1: neutral site fake bubbles that were created with multiple teams.

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Speaker 1: We're all in different leagues, we have different testing protocols

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Speaker 1: that were being mandated to live under based on our leagues,

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Speaker 1: and UM, I wasn't into that. I mean, we're in

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Speaker 1: one in Kansas City next weekend. I'm hoping it goes through.

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Speaker 1: But I I think the safest thing to do is

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Speaker 1: just to schedule single games and and then at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day. I've been a big advocate from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, Doug, I believe we should play non league games.

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Speaker 1: But I've been a big advocate that as a conference,

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Speaker 1: we had to fight to protect our eighteen games. We

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Speaker 1: we had to create windows, uh, to play makeup games

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Speaker 1: of need be because it's hard to control non league games,

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Speaker 1: but you do control your league games, and we we

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Speaker 1: we had to figure out a way to do that,

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Speaker 1: and in the SEC we created a window at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year where we can make up games. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna it's par for the course for this year. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's a dog. And remember this back in the summer.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons Greg Sanky started football when he

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Speaker 1: did in September is because all the experts said late

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Speaker 1: November is a problem. It's coming again, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and and so for we're trying to make this happen.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people have worked really hard to make

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Speaker 1: it happen. We just we we we can't overreact to

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Speaker 1: when these moments take place. So in terms of preparing

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Speaker 1: though for for Kansas City next week, you have hair

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Speaker 1: as if it's going to happen. And then it's like

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Speaker 1: a daily update on everything, like do you get from

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Speaker 1: the folks in Kansas City, Do you get an update

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Speaker 1: from the teams are gonna play? Do you getn update?

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Speaker 1: Or you simply worry about yourself? How does that work?

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Speaker 1: All of the above, all the above, and like for example, uh,

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Speaker 1: this week, like games start this week, we get tested

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Speaker 1: NCC mandated three times a week rather than one time

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Speaker 1: a week before this week. Um and uh and now

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Speaker 1: this week we go Monday, Tuesday, Thursday is SEC testing.

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Speaker 1: Then we get off a plane in Kansas City on

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Speaker 1: Friday and then to be part of that tournament. We

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Speaker 1: gotta get tested Friday and Saturday, so we'll be tested

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Speaker 1: five times this week. So it's uh, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just part of the part of the we we listen.

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Speaker 1: We we've all signed up coaches, players, We we No

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Speaker 1: one's forcing anyone to do this. I mean, I can't

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Speaker 1: speak for other coaches, but I know I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: the guys, my peers that I do communicate with. The

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Speaker 1: players want to play. We're trying to make it work.

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Speaker 1: It takes a lot of self accountability to to put

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Speaker 1: this together, a lot of people putting in a lot

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Speaker 1: of time to try and make it happen. And at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, we can't control it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's just it's something that's there. And when

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Speaker 1: when unfortunately these moments take place, we just got to

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Speaker 1: pray that the that people are safe, that they don't

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Speaker 1: get grabbed by this virus in a in a hard way.

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Speaker 1: Um and uh. And and if we can get games in,

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Speaker 1: just celebrate the games we get in. That's that's what

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Speaker 1: the season should be about. Okay, So let's let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's go back part one where we left you. The

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Speaker 1: president and the athletic tector UM at Kansas State, offer

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Speaker 1: you the job, and offer Delante to be the highest

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Speaker 1: paid You're the lowest paid head coach in the Big

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Speaker 1: twelve and six under grand to be the highest paid

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Speaker 1: assistant in four hunder Grand and said you need to

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Speaker 1: take a minute, and you said, yes, you can take

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Speaker 1: a You go outside. You're like, oh, you give me

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Speaker 1: and you talk about your wives and how you live

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Speaker 1: next to each other. UM, and that's that's pretty pretty awesome, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you walk back in, you take the job. Then

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Speaker 1: what happens? UM take the job. We agreed, uh, UM

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Speaker 1: to have a press This was on a Thursday, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: on a Friday. Agree to have a press conference on Monday. UH.

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Speaker 1: As soon as we're done with UH, you know the

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Speaker 1: formalities hugging and high fiving and thanking each other. President

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Speaker 1: the A d me Delonte. We went home. I shared

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Speaker 1: a moment with the rest of our staff, UM and

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Speaker 1: UH and then got on a plane. Delonte and I

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Speaker 1: got in the school plane and flew to Memphis to

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Speaker 1: go meet with Michael Beasley. Mike was in Memphis playing

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Speaker 1: with USA Basketball, and we went there, met with him.

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Speaker 1: Then turn around met with Jacob Poland um and uh

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Speaker 1: and then at the time that was a live recruiting

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Speaker 1: we can so we went to the old real deal

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Speaker 1: on the hill Au Tournament and uh in Fayettville, Arkansas

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Speaker 1: and recruited there all day Saturday, UM, all day Sunday,

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Speaker 1: flew back home. UM and then uh, this is where

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Speaker 1: it kind of got interesting. This is a powerful moment

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Speaker 1: of my life. Doug get back for Monday, and the

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Speaker 1: paperwork that was presented to me, I said, I can

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Speaker 1: get be terminated at any time for fifty grand and

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Speaker 1: I said, I didn't shake hands on that. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I said, I told you guys, if you guys are

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Speaker 1: committed to me, you believe I can do the job

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Speaker 1: I'm in. If not, no feelings hurt. Man'. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be a token guy. I don't live my

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Speaker 1: life that way. I don't. I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: the guy that's uh, that's protected because of somebody else's

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Speaker 1: I want to stand on my own two feet when

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Speaker 1: the moment comes. And um, they I was told but

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Speaker 1: press conference was later like a couple hours later. Said

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Speaker 1: both Frankness, it is what it is and and I

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Speaker 1: didn't take it personal there's no ill will. But I

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Speaker 1: told Tim Wiser, the athletic director, I said, I can't

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Speaker 1: sign that. That's not what I wanted it. I can't

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Speaker 1: do it. And he says, well, you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: coach with out of contract, because that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, if you want to introduce me

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Speaker 1: as your coach, let's go. I'm ready and I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: willing to do it. Um. And if you don't want

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Speaker 1: me to be your coach, I understand. I had it

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Speaker 1: already been leaked to the media. They already reporting Frank

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Speaker 1: Martin's give me the next that coach? Yea, so um.

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Speaker 1: Tim said, well you're the guy. We just gotta figure

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Speaker 1: this contract that as we go along. And I coached

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Speaker 1: the whole year without a contract. And uh now were

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Speaker 1: you paid at what? What rate? Where you paid at

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Speaker 1: the first at six? But re member, you know we

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Speaker 1: you do sign that m o U or whatever that

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Speaker 1: thing is called the memorandum of understanding. Uh so the

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Speaker 1: salary was understood, but there was not a contract in

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Speaker 1: place as too. You know, if I would have been terminated,

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Speaker 1: they could have fired me the next day. They could

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Speaker 1: fire me December one, and not paid me a dime.

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Speaker 1: And but I just, uh, I just didn't agree with

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Speaker 1: signing something that's not what I agreed to. UM and

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Speaker 1: Tim Wiser understood that. And one of the most powerful

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Speaker 1: moments I've ever had professionally was we we beat Southern

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Speaker 1: Cow in the first round of the n C Double

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Speaker 1: A tournament. And as I'm walking to the locker room,

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Speaker 1: Tim Wiser standing outside the locker room and he says

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Speaker 1: to me, I've never been prouder of a man than

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Speaker 1: I am of you right now. I'm so happy for you. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Whenever this rides over, You're we'll sit down and you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll figure out the contract thing and whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that you need will get done. And uh. And I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that Tim Wiser has become a dear friend of

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Speaker 1: mine m because he stood strong into what he believed

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Speaker 1: and I stood strong into what I believed. But it

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Speaker 1: didn't make us dislike each other. On the contrary, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I got us to a much closer place. No, It's

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Speaker 1: just one of the things that that's unique about you

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Speaker 1: is that you don't just say it. Lots of people

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Speaker 1: say and pay it lip service. You actually do it.

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Speaker 1: And I think it. It can catch people off guard

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Speaker 1: at times. Right leaving high school a successful but because

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Speaker 1: you did not like what was happening in high schools

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Speaker 1: in Miami and you became really disgusted with the progress

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Speaker 1: or lack thereof, you know, and then just like you told,

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Speaker 1: you told uh Bob Huggins like look, if you ever

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Speaker 1: need me, call me and ecology like do you do

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Speaker 1: you actually say what you mean and then you do

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Speaker 1: it or you don't do it because you said it

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Speaker 1: and that's what you actually mean, and that's not how

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Speaker 1: most people operate. Let me go back real quick. You

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Speaker 1: walk into Michael Beasley's hotel room, Where did you guys?

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Speaker 1: Because I know Delante and Bees had a long history. Correct,

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Speaker 1: what was what was your history in terms of his

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Speaker 1: knowledge of you? Because when guys recruited guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: they know other guys and staff with them as the

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Speaker 1: head coach, and then there's the guy who's the point man.

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Speaker 1: What was what? What was that meaning? Like? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I gotta understand. I I my high school days,

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Speaker 1: I was you know, real TYT with Curtis Malone and

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Speaker 1: and I knew that Delonte and Mike were tighter than

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Speaker 1: New rope I mean, Mike to this day considers Delonte's

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Speaker 1: big brother. Um, you know, and and people forget that

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Speaker 1: Delonte's real brother, Damara Johnson, played for Huggs at Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: and that's where that relationship was formed. They had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with Michael Beasley. It was a Delonte Huggs relationship.

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Speaker 1: Came from way before Michael Beasley. And but no, that

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Speaker 1: was everyone understood. That was Delonte's guy. And um, the

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Speaker 1: way Huggs does it and it's the way I do it. Now.

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Speaker 1: There's a point person in a recruitment. But those players

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Speaker 1: know you're coming to play for us. You're not coming

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Speaker 1: here to speak to him and no one else and

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Speaker 1: um and uh so we we you know, we we

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Speaker 1: uh we had a great relationship Mike and I did.

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Speaker 1: Uh it wasn't like Huggses relationship with him. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like Delonte's relationship with him. So I had to go

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Speaker 1: sell myself to Mike. Now as the head coach, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna manage you not hugs me, and you're possibly gonna

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Speaker 1: be the first pick of the draft. And uh so

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Speaker 1: we had to go there and and and do it

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Speaker 1: in person. We did in the hotel lobby, by the way,

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Speaker 1: not in his room because they had roommates and you know,

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be invading other people's face. And uh

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Speaker 1: and and and you know, Doug, people talk about tampering,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about and he had signed his

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Speaker 1: letter of intent. You want to talk about tampering during

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Speaker 1: that week? Now, I mean it was embarrassing. I come

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Speaker 1: front of a bunch of coaches after the fact and

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Speaker 1: let them know, like, man, I can't believe I get

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Speaker 1: my opportunity and you guys are established dudes and you're

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Speaker 1: doing this, you know, but that's it is what it is?

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Speaker 1: What what was it like to coach? Mean, he had

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Speaker 1: an incredible year, but his the persona that I think,

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Speaker 1: um he gives off is he's very laid back, very

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Speaker 1: laid back. Uh, he little goofy and he likes to play.

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Speaker 1: But you, especially at Kansas State, I would say, you're

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Speaker 1: the opposite of laid back. What was what was that like? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, Doug, that's one of the reasons why if

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Speaker 1: you called me and you said, hey, we got to

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Speaker 1: do a third podcast for another hour, I'm signing up

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Speaker 1: because a lot of that attention that we grabbed that

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Speaker 1: year was created by you on television. You remember that

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Speaker 1: game at Colorado where you know, like you said, you

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Speaker 1: were in the room right next door to me at

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Speaker 1: halftime and you could hear the paint melting from my

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Speaker 1: screaming in there. And then you did a game at

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Speaker 1: at Case State later on the year. You named it

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Speaker 1: the Octagon of Doom. I did not name it that.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was okay. So here's how it went down.

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Speaker 1: This is a true story. Um, there are two Marriotts.

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Speaker 1: I think there are two Marriotts in in Manhattan. There's

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Speaker 1: like a Courtyard by Marriott, and then there's a downtown Marriotta. Right,

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Speaker 1: and I roll into town, fly into Kansas City, I

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Speaker 1: do our radio show and then I made like record time,

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Speaker 1: like it was one of those supposed to take two

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Speaker 1: and a half and it might have taken a buck fifty. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm jamming and I'm excited, and you know, and and

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Speaker 1: I believe you had invited me to dinner, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I can make it. And so I

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Speaker 1: come jamming into town and I pull in and I

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Speaker 1: am one of these I'm a fly by the seat

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Speaker 1: of my pants. Just put it in my email where

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Speaker 1: I'm staying, and I oftentimes don't look at it until

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Speaker 1: i'm actually in the town, you know, And I remember

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Speaker 1: looking at Marriotts. I pull into the Marriott and I

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Speaker 1: go to check in, and uh the guy at the

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Speaker 1: front was very nice, but he's like, Mr Gotlif, we

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Speaker 1: don't have a room for you. And I'm also very cheap.

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Speaker 1: I like things to be direct build and I'm lazy

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Speaker 1: about doing expense reports. I'm like, what do you mean

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Speaker 1: I could have just you know, given the credit card,

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Speaker 1: d Bucks whatever expensive. I was like, uh, so I

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Speaker 1: look at my email and I said, sits right here,

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Speaker 1: and Mary like no, no no, no, that's the court Yard

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Speaker 1: by Marriott, that's down whatever. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: so I'm walking out and one of the other guys

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Speaker 1: who works at the hotel is like, hey, you're doing

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Speaker 1: the show. You're doing the game at the Octagon tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: Like what octagon? Octagon of Doom And I said, what

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Speaker 1: was that. It's like, that's that's the we're calling Brandwich

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Speaker 1: the Octagon of Doom. It's like that's awesome, awesome. So

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Speaker 1: I go and that night I said like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the Octagon of Doom and it was a great

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Speaker 1: and and the interesting thing about Brandwich was when I

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Speaker 1: played there, Asbury was the coach, weren't very good. They

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Speaker 1: had a guy named Manny Dice who was who he was.

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Speaker 1: He was a monster and we want a very close game.

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Speaker 1: And I remember playing there thinking, you know, this place

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Speaker 1: is full. It's pretty good. And my dad, I coached

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Speaker 1: the KSE State um and when he was there, they coached.

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Speaker 1: They played it ahearn right and that was like the

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Speaker 1: Gallagher Iba of of Kansas, small people. Right track goes

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Speaker 1: around it, you know, you pull that back the bleachers

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Speaker 1: right there that there was an indoor track and up

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Speaker 1: until you got up until Hugs got there. Really um

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Speaker 1: people hated Brandwich. They just didn't like it, you know,

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Speaker 1: they missed ahearn and it was and obviously you guys

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Speaker 1: got it going anyway. So it was Octagon of Doom.

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Speaker 1: So I get back and as my schedule was back then,

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Speaker 1: I would do a game and that come in, I'd

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Speaker 1: land and I go in then under the studio the

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Speaker 1: whole weekend, and so the whole weekend I was. Every

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Speaker 1: time they would talk about you guys, I would say

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Speaker 1: Octagonal Doom. Somehow I got credit for something that I

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Speaker 1: did not do gladly, I would gladly take the credit.

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Speaker 1: But then like Frand does a game on Big Monday,

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Speaker 1: like you play on the road on Saturday, friends a

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Speaker 1: game and I had texted friend, Hey, Franny, they're calling

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Speaker 1: it the Octagon and duom He's like, I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that. And so I think even fran like

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Speaker 1: gave me the credit and that wasn't me and so

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Speaker 1: um so all of a sudden, then there's octagon signs

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Speaker 1: and octagon shirts and and it was, it was, it was,

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Speaker 1: It was amazing. But like, look, you were a guy

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Speaker 1: who you held guys to a standard of of work.

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Speaker 1: And it's one of the things that I believe is

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Speaker 1: that most guys, that most kids, they want to be

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Speaker 1: coached and they want to be coached hard, but they

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Speaker 1: want to be coach fair, and you coach them hard

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Speaker 1: and fair. And I think sometimes television didn't really do

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Speaker 1: you justice, right because they got the look and the stair.

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Speaker 1: But anytime I was running, your players loved you because

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Speaker 1: you're fair to them, right, Like you weren't just m

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Speaker 1: F and m m F M right, you were you

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Speaker 1: were like a father who held them accountable. And so

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Speaker 1: many guys don't have that in their lives. And even

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Speaker 1: if they do, their dads like you better listen to

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Speaker 1: him or I'm gonna I'm gonna come up to their

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Speaker 1: ring your neck. But when you get onto Beasley, right,

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Speaker 1: and that was this is in your first year and

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Speaker 1: you're trying to prove yourself. How did he react? Here

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Speaker 1: here's here's the greatest Bees behind the scenes story of

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Speaker 1: all time. Uh this this says a lot before I

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Speaker 1: say the story. He is the easiest real good player

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Speaker 1: I've ever coached. All he wanted to do was please.

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Speaker 1: He wanted you to help him, and he responded. He

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Speaker 1: let you coach him. He didn't fight you, but he

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Speaker 1: laid back. He took this day, laid back. It's just

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Speaker 1: who he is. It's his DNA. But Doug, we'll getting

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Speaker 1: ready to play Sacramento State, and Brad Underwood, my assistant

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Speaker 1: at the time, it says scout. So we're in the

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Speaker 1: locker rooms, first game of the year and they're no good.

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Speaker 1: You know you're you're you're the first month leading into

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Speaker 1: the first game. My first game ever is a head coach,

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Speaker 1: I've studied Sacramento State as if we're getting ready to

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Speaker 1: play Kansas on national TV. And so they're not very good.

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Speaker 1: But we got nine first year players. Eight of them

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Speaker 1: were freshmen. The ninth was Denny clement and he was

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Speaker 1: red shirting. And it's our seven freshmen of JUCO transferred

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Speaker 1: Denny clementic. So you know, I'm nervous. I want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that, you know, head coach Division one basketball,

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Speaker 1: a power of five school, I've got to have my

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Speaker 1: team prepared. That's what I, you know, get paid to do.

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Speaker 1: And um, so Brad's showing film and we're in the

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Speaker 1: locker room and I, you know, I usually sat away

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Speaker 1: from the camera, so I'm looking around the room and

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Speaker 1: Mike is sitting there and he starts and I just

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Speaker 1: I don't say a word until he's completely out. So

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Speaker 1: when he's completely out, I'm like, stop, Brad, stop, Mike.

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Speaker 1: Stand up, and and he looks at me like and

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Speaker 1: he's like, I'm like, Mike, don't say a word because

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Speaker 1: then you're gonna call me a liar, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: will be mad. Stand up. So I made him watch

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Speaker 1: film standing up like a little kid in kindergarten, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, to make sure everyone knows that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: paying attention. Number two, When you stand up, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna fall asleep. So now he's gonna watch. So now

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Speaker 1: we go through the rest of the scott to report it.

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Speaker 1: And now we're walking to the court and bramblege and

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Speaker 1: from our locker room, it's like this walk up that

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Speaker 1: tunnel and he's like a little kid. Man, I'm just

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Speaker 1: telling you. He just wants to please. And and I'm

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Speaker 1: walking and he comes running up from behind and puts

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Speaker 1: his arm around me, and he says, coach Frank Man,

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Speaker 1: I've never done that film stuff. Man, you know I

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Speaker 1: gotta learn. You gotta be patient with me. I said, Mike,

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Speaker 1: I told you that if you listen to me, I'll

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Speaker 1: help you. But you gotta listen to me. And he says,

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Speaker 1: coach try and I understand, but were you watching those guys?

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Speaker 1: Which one of those guys is gonna guard me? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, Mike, shut up, get out of the court.

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Speaker 1: Let's practice. When I took him out of the game,

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Speaker 1: we're up thirty. He had thirty six points, twenty four rebounds,

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Speaker 1: and he comes by me, puts his arm around me.

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Speaker 1: He says, I got you, man, I got you. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's Mike Beasley. Man. He's loyal, he's honest, he's simple,

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Speaker 1: he cares um. You know, I'll say one last thing,

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Speaker 1: I Mike, and I'll talk to you about anything you

397
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Speaker 1: want know about Mike. But you know, the world of

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Speaker 1: basketball has tried to paint him as a failure because

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Speaker 1: he hasn't lived up to that number to draft pick

400
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Speaker 1: kind of career. He is an unbelievable father. He cares

401
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Speaker 1: for his children like there's no tomorrow, um. And he

402
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: is finally found who he is. Uh. You know, he's

403
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Speaker 1: been searching for who he is for for a long

404
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Speaker 1: time and unfortunately he don't get to do that behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes. He gets to do that in front of

406
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Speaker 1: the world judging him because he's a basketball player. Got

407
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Speaker 1: picked number two. So I'm really proud of him. Man,

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Speaker 1: he's become a hell of a man. It's Uh. He

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Speaker 1: takes on his responsibilities in a great way. How did

410
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Speaker 1: you handle you know? Uh, your guys, first road trip,

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Speaker 1: you go to Orlando, you lose to George Mason. Right

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Speaker 1: then you come home you lose to Oregon. Uh. And

413
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Speaker 1: you know you you go to Madison Square Garden and

414
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Speaker 1: you lost. I think to Notre Dame and here you are.

415
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Speaker 1: You're the guy who the assistant and you got no,

416
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Speaker 1: you have no contract and and look you're played. You're

417
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Speaker 1: replacing Bob Huggins. And there's the old way's coaching Bob

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Speaker 1: Huggins players like, yeah, it's not actually, but again, you

419
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Speaker 1: know how the whispers work? How did you handle that?

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Speaker 1: How did you how did you keep everybody together? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean I've never been one to pay attention to

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Speaker 1: people that are not in it with me. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: I goes back to shaky Rodriguez man when when you know,

424
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: growing up under him at Miami High School. Uh he

425
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: he buttoned down the hatches now and it was all

426
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: about us and and keeping the message consistent about you know,

427
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: with us back then. It would have been a little

428
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 1: harder if social media would have been as popular as

429
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: it is now, because it's so hard, uh to to

430
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 1: keep everyone on pointing on message because there's so many voices. Um.

431
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: But but they we had a loyal staff, Delonte Hill,

432
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: Loyals a days long, um, Brad Underwood, Matt Figure, our

433
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: strength coach. Here, here's where hugs really helped me. And

434
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: this is where Bob Huggins does not get credit for

435
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: the man that he is. He knew that he could

436
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: have taken our strength coach. He could have taken Delonte.

437
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: Then Jacob Poland, Bill Walker strength coach. I don't remember.

438
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: He worked me out of was S for like two weeks.

439
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: He's the real deal. He you guys, you went in

440
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: there and you got it in with him. He's the

441
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: real deal. And but Huggs could have taken him, could

442
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: have taken Delonte. Um uh, Mike Beasley would have gone

443
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: to West Virginia, Bill Walker would have transferred, Jacob Poland

444
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: gone to West Virginia. And instead Hugs grabbed all those

445
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: dudes and said, it's Frank's turn. I'll be okay, I'm

446
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: will be all right, I'm going home. It's Frank's turn.

447
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: You guys gotta look out for Frank right now. And

448
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: those guys were troopers men. We all lived others. The

449
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: most amazing thing we lived in a brand new development

450
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: that we all bought homes and we're the assistant coaches.

451
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: It was our strength coach. I was his next door neighbor,

452
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: a guy from the army and the Aslee, who's our

453
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: operations guy. To this date, and Delane Hill. So and

454
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: that's it. There are no more homes in the development

455
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: was a brand new development the outskirts of Manhattan. So

456
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 1: we we spent all our time in our backyards just

457
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to fix the world's problems.

458
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: And uh and in that way we we became really

459
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: really a close knit group under hugs. So when Huggs left,

460
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: that loyalty stay true and uh, just you know, powerful

461
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: group of guys. And then the players, Man, I can't,

462
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: I can't. You know, Bill Walker was hard to coach.

463
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: Bill and I butted heads a lot, but that's good players, man,

464
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna butt heads. Were good players, and but at

465
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: the end of the day, they were awesome. Man, those

466
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: guys were awesome and they fought to the end. You

467
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: beat Kansas at home? That was I mean, that was

468
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: that was, that was when it was. It's over. He

469
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: used the coach for as long as he wants to

470
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: be the coach, right, because I don't think had they

471
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: never beaten Kansas at home In Bramlich I think had

472
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: been twenty five years, but they hadn't. So again for

473
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: people who correct, right, So Brambliche Colisseum is it's an octagon.

474
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: It's but before that, all the winds were at a hearn. Hey,

475
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: when they put they built a new building that everybody hated,

476
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: but for they never had never won in that building

477
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: and hadn't one at home against your in state rival

478
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: in twenty five years. What was that moment like for you? Well,

479
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: to this day, there's a lot of media folks get

480
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: mad at me because I don't let freshman speak to

481
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: the media the first semester. Ile I turned them loose

482
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: after the first semester. And the big reason why is

483
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: that summer before that year, we're a function in Topeka.

484
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: Can this and uh, the media attacked Beasley. Mike was

485
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: there and the media attacked him, and he told them, man,

486
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna beat Kansas here there and in Africa. So

487
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: then they come running to me. Hey, Mike Beasley said this,

488
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, that's why we recruited him.

489
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: We want guys that believe that we're gonna beat Kansas

490
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: every time we line up and play. That's as a coach,

491
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: you want your players thinking like that. But privately, I

492
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: went back and I said, I went back and told

493
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: Tom Gilbert s idea. At the time hey, freshman, are

494
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: not talking to the media first semester? That's all right. Listen, listen, listen.

495
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: I was a red shirt junior and we were picked

496
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: to win the league in nine. We had a we

497
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: were picked dead last year before. When I got there

498
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: and we won the South. I was back when the

499
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: split up, and Sports Illustrated asked me, you know, like,

500
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: why do you think you're gonna win the league? And

501
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: I said, well, we have better guards, you know, and

502
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I got I didn't get to

503
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: talk to the media for like three months or whatever.

504
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: But I mean, what do you like, are you just

505
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: supposed to think that somebody's better than you? And by

506
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: the way, we did have better guards, all right, Um,

507
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: but that wasn't that that wasn't received all that well

508
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: up in the corner office of Gallagher. Iba arena, Um okay,

509
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: Uh you obviously it became a thing, right, the octagon

510
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: became a thing. Your program became a thing. You know,

511
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: you were able from Denny clement A, Jacob poland uh

512
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: you had you had so many players that became kind

513
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: of legendary for uh, the the It's it's one thing

514
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: to have a successful year, it's another thing to build

515
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: a successful program and have a successful culture. When did

516
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: you feel like it changed and there wasn't because you

517
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: get down in your first year and your A D

518
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: says I got you. You redo your contract at the

519
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: end of that year. Was it when by the I

520
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: was still I was still when we redid it, I

521
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: was still the lowest play guy in the big twelve.

522
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: You just had just had a half of your buyout, right,

523
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: So so so when did what did it change when

524
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: he left? When did when did your feeling about your

525
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: relationship with the university, with the athletic department change? My

526
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: relationship with them was always great, but there was that

527
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: uncertainty about a contract. And uh, but when when Tim

528
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: Wiser was waiting for me. John Weifald, who was the

529
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: longtime president the university, hired Bill Snyder, hired Bob Huggins

530
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: hired me. Unbelievable man. His vice president, Bob Krausse Love Sports,

531
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: unbelievable man. Those guys were in my corner. I knew

532
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: that Tim Wiser was in my corner. Unfortunately, Tim Wiser

533
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: is my boss directly. So that's why I interacted with

534
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: the time and the whole contract thing. Was Tim Wiser

535
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: Martin thing, but no one ever knew. I didn't bring

536
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: it up, He didn't bring it up. We we just

537
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: went about our business. And that's why that moment when

538
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: Tim was waiting for me outside the locker room uh

539
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: in Omaha, Nebraska when we beat Southern cal and he

540
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: said what he said to me, Uh, it just reinforced

541
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 1: to me what a good man he was, because you know,

542
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: he never allowed uh my not wanting to sign the contract,

543
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: whether he agreed or I agreed, regardless, never hold that

544
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: against me. Never. Never. On the contrary, helped me every

545
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: step of the way in that journey that first year,

546
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: which I used to call it the circus because that

547
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: first year me I'm I'm a different dude. No one

548
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: knows who I am. Mike Mike build those guys brought

549
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: the circus to town and it was just unbelievable every

550
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: day that we lost early trying to hold that together

551
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: and we started winning. But it's but that when when

552
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: I walked in the locker room that day after after

553
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: Tim Wiser said that to me, I got in front

554
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: of the players and I could not get a word out.

555
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: I was overcome with emotion because I realized like, Okay,

556
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: now this is my coaching home, this is where my

557
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: college career was born, and this is my coaching home.

558
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: So that was the moment right there. The third year

559
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: was the was the big year. That was the elite

560
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: eight year, right that was that? That was But but again,

561
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: like you were, you were known for having Beasley, but

562
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 1: that didn't become your best team. What was it about

563
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: the third year that allowed you, guys to you know,

564
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: you won twenty nine games and you just you got

565
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: better and better and better. Well, uh, at the end

566
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: of our first year, then everyone predicted, well, this guy's

567
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: a hothead. He don't know what he's doing. And now

568
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: Mike Beasley's on and Bill Walker's gone. They're done, they'll

569
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna fire him. They're no good. Um. And then um,

570
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: we we had a pretty good non conference run my

571
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: second year and then we start Big twelve play oh

572
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: and four and here it comes the end of the

573
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: earth and da da da da da and Denny Clemente,

574
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 1: who had read shirt in my first year, we just

575
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: lost in Nebraska to go and four and then Clemente

576
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: loses his mind in the locker room like he he

577
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: hated to lose, and here's the smallest guy on our

578
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: team with taking over control, with his personality of you know,

579
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: all the whatever, the possibility of us falling apart and

580
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: not allowing it. And uh. He single handedly turned our

581
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: team around that year and we ended up nine and

582
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: seven in league play, just missed. Uh. It's the only

583
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: time in my career, Doug, I've ever told the team, Yo,

584
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: we're going into a must win. And it was late

585
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: in the year. We went into g I A and

586
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State, you know, Sean was the coach that were

587
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: good and and I told the team, you guys want

588
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: to go to the n C Double A Tournament, we

589
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: have to win today. Well, we had another game left

590
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: after that, and we went in there and fought our

591
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: tails off. And people don't the average person that don't

592
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: know college basketball, they don't understand how hard it is

593
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: to win at g I A when that place is packed,

594
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: rocking and rolling. It's ridiculous how heart it is. But

595
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: we lose a two point game and uh. And then

596
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: we we got beat in the first round of conference

597
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: tournament by Texas, who we had beaten earlier in the year,

598
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: and we get left out of the n C Double

599
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: A Tournament, and Jacob Poland and Denny Clement that come

600
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: up to me maybe a week after we lost. We

601
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: went to the n I T lost in the second

602
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: round at San Diego to San Diego State. Who would

603
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: have known that that San Diego State team was going

604
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: to become what they became moving forward and um, but

605
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: Denny Clement and Jacob came up to me and they

606
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: were like, hey, we get back in the gym. And

607
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 1: I said, now, we just finished, we gotta get back

608
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: in the gym. And away we went. And those those

609
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 1: two guys kind of took the team the bull by

610
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: the horn, for lack of better words. We had a

611
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: guy red shirting that year, Curtis Kelly was unbelievably talented.

612
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: So now that my third year he becomes eligible. Uh

613
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: and then the Jamaar samuels Is of the world, Dominique

614
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: Sutton's of the world. Now their third year guys, uh,

615
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: Luis Cologne's a senior, Denny's a senior. Our freshmen were

616
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: Rodney McGruder, Wally Judge. I mean, we we had really

617
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: good players that year, and so we had experience guys

618
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: that understood me, I understood them, and really talented incoming

619
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: players and uh away we went that that that year

620
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: was UM. When that when that team lost the Butler

621
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: in the Elite eight, UM, that's the you know, when

622
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: you lose a game you're not supposed to lose, it's

623
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: a loss. You never forget that. That's the most frustrating

624
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: moment for me as a coach because I've never I

625
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: had never been around a team that worked as hard

626
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: as those kids did to stick together from their freshman

627
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: year to that moment, UH when easily it could have

628
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: fallen apart when the whole world said, your coach don't

629
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: know what he's doing. You can't win without Michael Beasley,

630
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: you can't win but about Bill Walker. Yet they held

631
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: that thing together, and and and with three minutes to go,

632
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: we're up one to go to the Final four, and

633
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: we just couldn't close a deal. If you could do

634
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: one thing different personally from that game, what would you

635
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: do the day before? It's the only time in my

636
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: career that I have not practiced the guys, you remember, um,

637
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: the Sweet sixteen game was a double overtime Xavier game,

638
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: which is three to nineties six or some crazy believable

639
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: up and down double overtime. You're trying to say that

640
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: you're trying to save their legs. And the game ends

641
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: at one o'clock in the morning, right, And and then,

642
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: of course I'm sure you started, but you had the

643
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: early game on Sunday. The game ends at one o'clock

644
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: in the morning. And and then on they give us

645
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: practice time, Yeah, one pm the next day, and you

646
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: have an hour and a half media as well. It's mandatory,

647
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,959
Speaker 1: and you got to do media all that stuff. So

648
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: I get the practice and I'm like, the whole night,

649
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: you don't sleep. You're an adrenaline at that time of

650
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: years of coach. I mean, you take a nap for

651
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: an hour and a half, two hours, coffee and let's go.

652
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: And I'm the whole night, I'm saying, how do I

653
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: manage I've never been through this, Doug, you know what

654
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: I mean. As a coach, I've never been through this.

655
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, how do I manage this moment? How

656
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: do I manage this moment? I mean? And and those

657
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: kids had practiced hard, laid it on the line, played

658
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: hard at HECT and then they announced and ce double

659
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: announces because the other game is West Virginia on that day.

660
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: The other Final four game that day is West Virginia Kentucky. Well,

661
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: they're not tipping them off at noon, East coast, they're

662
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: typing them off at five p m. E's coach. So

663
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: they said, the team on the west coast over there

664
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: Assualt Lake. Uh, it's Butler k State. No one's watching

665
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: that game, so let's send them early. Plus its altitude

666
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: and the altitude so we we we just and Butler

667
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: was good man. Were they physical? Holy cow? Were they physical?

668
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: And and early in the game. Uh they they said

669
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: a ball screen. Matt Howard said, a ball screen on

670
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: Denny Clemente and need them in the five? How Danny

671
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: finished that game? If we had won to go to

672
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: the Final four, I don't think any clemented players next weekend.

673
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: His ty was so bad. You know, it's interesting. I

674
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: did um. They had a tournament in Hawaii that year

675
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: and I was watching them practice and one of other

676
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: coaches came up to me, and it was in it

677
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: was at the University of Hawaii that the Diamond Head

678
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: game turned. One of their coaches popped in. He's like,

679
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: you see you see Butler? I said, yeah. He said,

680
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: they look like they may look like schoolboys, but they

681
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: hit you like sailors. Like the most physical team I've

682
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: ever seen. They they were the most physical playing in

683
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: the Big twelve Kansas that you know, Missouri's the Nebraska's

684
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 1: you play some physicality now, and when they were by

685
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: far the most physical team we played all year. Their

686
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: guard play Ronald Norad Uh the other six four kid

687
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: from Kentucky that's still in the NBA. Uh, God, I

688
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: can't remember his name right now. Then Gordon Hayward and

689
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: Matt Howard and then they uh they had uh the

690
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: young man that passed away was young and big seven footer,

691
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: and they had they had a power forward who was

692
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: from Miami. I can't remember. I can't remember his name

693
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: right now. But they were so physical, it was and

694
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: they were good physical, were really good players. Uh, Shelvin Mack.

695
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: That's the guards. But I told Tom Izzo because then

696
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: they beat us, and Izo calls me on whatever, Monday, Tuesday,

697
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: and that's who they play in the final four. And

698
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: he says, Frank, what do you think think? I said, Tom,

699
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: it's the most physical team we've played all year, you know,

700
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: And and and I don't I don't like saying this

701
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it, but I don't. I don't say this,

702
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: but it's like the officials. It was like a little Butler,

703
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, Tosten, that's the crap out of you. Almost Okay,

704
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: it's a podcast, you can you can say and I

705
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: like physical you know my team? No no no, no, no, no,

706
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: I understand. It's like, look, this has been this is

707
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: the the age old basketball argument, right. The big guys

708
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: always get called for the fouls, whereas the little guys

709
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: you can be way more physical, way way dirtier because

710
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: whether officials want to want to admit it or not,

711
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: they get the little guy the benefit of the doubt.

712
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: And Butler kind of has they got this kind of

713
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: choir boy looked to him, and Brad's got this choir

714
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: boy looks at he's twelve, looked to him. Meanwhile, they're

715
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: picking the hell out of you, moving on every screen,

716
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: and I mean it is you know it is, it is.

717
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: It's absolute warfare. Okay. Fast forward to the Miami job.

718
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: Come something, Yeah, why didn't you take it? It's not awful.

719
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: You have to ask them. I think Frank leaves and

720
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: you had to think, like, okay, I'm gonna get the

721
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: call right this all I'm gonna tell you, Doug. I'm

722
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: not gonna tell you who. I got a call at

723
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: midnight this is happening, and I was um. I said, listen, man,

724
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: I can't get this. Not a job that I can

725
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: get in the middle. There's too many feelings here. This

726
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: this can't be let's go back and forth stuff. You

727
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: know what I make if my whole staff, if you

728
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: can't take care of my whole staff, I can't do this.

729
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: I gotta call seven o'clock the next morning said we

730
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: can do it. And then I got a call later

731
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: that day say, forget it. I'm not happening. And why

732
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: you gotta ask them? I'm not. It's not fair for

733
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: me to uh to share, uh, you know, things that

734
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: happened in private that I'm aware of, because I don't

735
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: know if they know I'm aware of them. I'm just

736
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm too connected down there. I mean I know that.

737
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: That's why. That's why all of us we were like, like,

738
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: that's gonna happen, right, I mean, I I'm not just

739
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: connected at the University of Miami. I mean, somebody throws

740
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: a rock somewhere in the city, I'm gonna find out

741
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: who did it? And um so that's why I'm that's

742
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: why I can't speak on it because it's not like

743
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: they they know that I know, I know what happened.

744
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: They don't know what happened. That's that's something that that

745
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: you should ask the leadership there when you know what

746
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: went Now, why South Carolina? Why did you make that move? Yeah,

747
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: story behind it, no I made public was real my

748
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: last year in case they my mother in law I

749
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: was going in um battling breast cancer and it was

750
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: really really hard on my wife because she couldn't leave.

751
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of the season, so she can't

752
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: go to New York. We got young, young kids, and

753
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: uh it's the first time I I, uh, I thought

754
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: about It's the first time I ever sat back and

755
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: said it might be time to get the family closer

756
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: to family and my my mom's in Miami, and my

757
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: sisters in New York, my wife's families in New York,

758
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: and and uh so you know, it's the only time, Um,

759
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: everyone put a big deal behind the scenes that me

760
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: and John Curry, who was our athletic director, did not

761
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: get along. That's that was that was that was the

762
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: that was the story that other people wanted up money.

763
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: That's that's what That's what everyone put out there. That's

764
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: not true. John worked his tail off. John raised money.

765
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: We we had case. They'd had a budget of forty

766
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: three million, athletic department budget of forty three million. Our

767
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: facilities were awful. John him in there, and he changed

768
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: the way of thinking John. John grew that place. Uh. Now,

769
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: in the meantime, John and I are trying to figure

770
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: each other out. I mean, I'm different, you know, I'm

771
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: uh he he had to learn to understand me. And

772
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: and so we're right in the middle of our relationship

773
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: building and and I saw how hard he was working.

774
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: And then I'm going through that personal kind of moment

775
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: right there. And you know, Doug, it was here's the

776
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: here's the one thing. This is why I don't chase jobs.

777
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: This is I'm I'm very as loud, as obnoxious as

778
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: I can be on a sideline, I'm very soft hearted

779
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: when it's time to make decisions. I I if I

780
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: opened my heart, I'm you can throw me into next

781
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: week as long as I don't let my heart get involved,

782
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: you know. And uh uh Eddie Fogler, who I know

783
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: you you know Eddie, Eddie, I trust Eddie. Eddie's a

784
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: longtime friend. Eddie had to search here at South Carolina.

785
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: Eddie's a is but at the time he was my

786
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: d real good friend with Eric Kiman, who's the athleta

787
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: director here, and Eddie was the coach here, and Eddie

788
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: still lived in Columbia, South Carolina, and Eddie called me.

789
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: We lost in the n C Double Tournament. Ed he

790
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 1: called me and said, uh, if you want the job

791
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: as your job, so I said, all right, I need

792
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: you to tell me what's What's is this something I

793
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: need to listen to? And he said, I mean, Frank,

794
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: you know you got a case State, but I'm just

795
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: telling you the a d at South Carolina wants you.

796
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: You're the guy, and he'd loved to meet with you. Uh.

797
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: And then Eddie made me understand quality of life, the community,

798
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: the job that he thinks it could be great, and

799
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: the one thing, Doug, that I never ever in my case.

800
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: State folks were incredible. I mean we had that thing.

801
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: It was the best team we had coming back that that. Uh.

802
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: When I made the decision to leave that team the

803
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: following year. Give Ruth Weeber, give Bruce Weeber all the

804
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: credit that he came in there, he bought in, he

805
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: earned or trust, and he got them to play his

806
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: way and they won the Big twelve. Um uh. But

807
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to leave those guys behind.

808
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: But when I met with Eric Kiman, he said, he said,

809
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: you're the guy, and you you are the guy that

810
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: I believe in, and he made me feel that way.

811
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: And the one thing that maybe in the back of

812
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: my mind I could never shake is that I always

813
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: got the k State job because I had Hugs as players.

814
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: The reason we won was, you know, Huggs turned it,

815
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: not me, and that I got the job because of

816
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: Mike and you always be viewed as the guy who

817
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: was in the mail room. So in the back of

818
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: my mind that kind of was there. Secondly, Doug, I'm

819
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: just wired, kind of stupid sometimes, like nothing. I've never

820
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: had anything easy in my life. My mother and my grandmother,

821
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: they they've never had anything easy in their life. So

822
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: I could have probably stayed patient. And the day I

823
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: decided to take another job, taking a job that had

824
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: a better profile in South Carolina, but I was like,

825
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,959
Speaker 1: this guy believes in me. Man, this guy just made

826
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: me feel like I'm the guy, and if I can

827
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: go there, then it's perfectly. It is almost the exact

828
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: midpoint between New York City and Miami, Florida. So my mind,

829
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: now I started thinking a little deeper, like things are

830
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: meant to be. My wife didn't want to live in Florida.

831
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: I had no interest. If I was gonna leave the

832
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: cold weather in Kansas. I did not want to go

833
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: to the cold weather somewhere else. I wanted to go

834
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: to warmer weather. And um, and I said, maybe maybe

835
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: it's meant to be. And I said, you know what,

836
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: let's try it, man, and uh, and I did it.

837
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: And it was a combination of all those points that

838
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: I just brought up. And uh, here's a great story.

839
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: Now and before you ask me the next question. So now,

840
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: first game I ever coach of South Carolina. We're playing

841
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Milwaukee, eighteen thousand seat arena, three thousand people at

842
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: the game. So there it's empty. There's a gentleman sitting

843
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: across the court on court side seats with his two boys.

844
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: Not all the courtside seats are filled. Second half, we're

845
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: down fifteen. His cell phone starts ringing, so he answers

846
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: his cell phone. The game's going on. I'm watching him

847
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: on his cell phone and he says, Hey, I'm at

848
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: the game, new coach, same stuff. This team is awful.

849
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: Let me call you when the game's over. I turned around.

850
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: I look at Underwood and Matt Figure and I said,

851
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: did you guys just see that? And they're sitting there

852
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: in disbelief. They we all heard the conversation. And I said,

853
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: what have we gotten ourselves into? And they both looked

854
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: at me and they said, we what have you gotten

855
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: us in? Too? That was the first game Ember of

856
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Uh, how do I mean? Like, I remember

857
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: when you had my Carrera that year I did win

858
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: your games, and you're like, trust me, this is my

859
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: kind of guy. But I looked at that team and

860
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: I was I thought everybody thought the same thing, Like

861
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: we're all a long way from Frank McGuire, right, we

862
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: are a long way from and and as we know,

863
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: there are teams in the SEC that offer it a

864
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: different level of scholarship, and then there's a different grant

865
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: aid program at some teams, at least at least it's

866
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: been portrayed that way. How do you go from there? Too?

867
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: When Carrera is a Stior playing in the final four.

868
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah you dog. I I tried to be patient when

869
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: I got the job here in recruiting, UM, first of all,

870
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to come play here that was any good. UM.

871
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: So I tried to take some uh, some some guys

872
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: that I knew because we had been recruiting before. They

873
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: were gonna be loyal to me. And and I took

874
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: Michael Carrera, and I took the to Lithuanian guys men

875
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: doug Us catching Us and Lamonis Had I can't say

876
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: his last name. I coached him for four years. I

877
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: still can't say his last name. But I took those

878
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: three guys because we had recruited all three a case stight.

879
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: But I didn't have scholarships for um. And then there's

880
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: a guy here in the program, Bruce Ellington football player.

881
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: He immediately bought into me. And and those four guys

882
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: UM gave me players that I can trust and believe in.

883
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: And then Sindari Stornwell the fall of my first year

884
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: signs with us. He's a senior at Okill Academy. He

885
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: commits and signs with US, and and uh, that was

886
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: kind of the nucleus. And away we went and then

887
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: a little by little we signed better players and better

888
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: players and pig now you hit with PJ, Dozer McDonald,

889
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: Doutle American and and now and and and and and

890
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: I it's interesting because I actually know a little bit

891
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: more about state of South Carolina because um, uh god,

892
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of his name. He played at

893
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: Cleansed back in the day. But but it was we

894
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: were all same year, were Kevin Garnetts from South Carolina? Right,

895
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 1: reyal And graduated high school in in South Carolina. Right,

896
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: the state of South Carolina actually produces good players, just

897
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: unable to build a fence around the state because everybody

898
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: comes in and gets them, you know, and um, then

899
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: it becomes you know, then then then it becomes crazy. Um.

900
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: But but PJ signifies a change, right, that signifies a

901
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: uh what is that moment like though to considering growing

902
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: up not even knowing if you want to coach and shake?

903
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: He tells you I need you to help out in

904
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: the j V, climbing the ladder, moving in high school,

905
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: going to Northeastern, as we talked about in in in

906
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: the first one, you know, you're at a cafe with

907
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: your girlfriend who's now your wife. Answering the phone, it's

908
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: Hugs and says I need you to go to Cincinnati.

909
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: Huggs gets fired. He goes to KSE State. You take

910
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: the job with no real buyout, no contract. Then you

911
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: lead KSE State on a way and you go to

912
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: South Carolina with the hedn't one forever, right, Dave Adam

913
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: is a good coach, he couldn't win. There. There um

914
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: to to taking them to the Final four? Was was

915
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: there a moment there that you remember that you were

916
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: able to take in and understand your own personal kind

917
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: of story in that magical ride. Oh and you left

918
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: you left out. The year before the Final four, which

919
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: is kurus senior year, we set a school record for

920
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: wins games eleven league games, and we got left out

921
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: of the n C Double A tournament. And and I

922
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: at the end of that year, I was like, I

923
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if we can what how more?

924
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: What more can you do? And you know, our school

925
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: had not won an n C Double A tournament games

926
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: this nineteen seventy two at the time. So now here

927
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: comes the final four year and and now we're rolling.

928
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: Man were playing well early and I got a suspense

929
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: in areas and we played six games without him. Uh,

930
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: and then we had injury bug hit our team. P

931
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: J Hurtz's neck. Kim Felder, who was our freshman guard

932
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: that had a heck of a run at the end

933
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: of the year, hurts a knee. The other guard, uh

934
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: goes through a battle of Mono early January. So we

935
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: we we just get hit with with the injury bug

936
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: and um. But at the end of the year, I

937
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: thought we started playing well again and Uh. We went

938
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: into the tournament and the day it hit me was

939
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: the game between the Sweet sixteen in the Elite eight

940
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: game at practice at Madison Square Garden. I'm I'm at

941
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: that practice and all I could do is think back

942
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: to that Butler game and and and I'm sitting there saying, Wow,

943
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: we're right back in that same moment again and and uh.

944
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: And that's when it kind of hit me, like because

945
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: at the time of Case Dight, I thought that was

946
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: incredible being in that Elite eight game. And now I'm

947
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: sitting there on the court and it's early in practice,

948
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 1: and you know, guys are shooting around or whatever, and

949
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 1: and I'm looking around and I'm in Madison Square Garden

950
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, we're playing to go to the Final four.

951
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: It's New York City, Frank McGuire, the game cocks my wife,

952
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: her family, my family, It's New York, the mecca of basketball,

953
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden. This can't be happening to me. How

954
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: this all happened? And uh, and we had the players

955
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: were in as my birthday the same day on my birthday,

956
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: and the players have an incredible practice. And then when

957
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: practice ends were in the middle, and as I started

958
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: talking to them, they had arranged for the band to

959
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 1: play Happy Birthday. And I left that arena that day

960
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: and I said, man, I'm lucky. Holy Column, I can't

961
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: believe that this is happening. And and then you play

962
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: the game, and those kids, like they were all year man,

963
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: they wouldn't give in. They just kept fighting and fighting

964
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: and we're down, and fight and fight and fight. And

965
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: when we took the lead, they never relinquished the lead.

966
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: And and then the buzzer sounds and it's Sinatra, who

967
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: I love, and it's New York, New York, and and

968
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: their people grabbing me. They were trying to put that

969
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: Final four hat on my head and it was too small.

970
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: I got a big old melon and they con't fit

971
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: it and they're like yanking it. Now. I'm walking around

972
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: the court, I'm looking for my family and I know

973
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: he's a dear friend of yours. I end up hugging

974
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: my wife, my my mother, my children, and Darius Rucker

975
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: and they're all crying, not coming out of their faces.

976
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: Darius is Darius is wiping his face on my shirt

977
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: and then asking, I'm sorry, Frank, I just can't believe

978
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 1: this is happening at my school. Powerful, powerful little twenty

979
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: four hour window for me there professionally and personally, Um,

980
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: what what what's left for you? Right? Obviously you want

981
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: to win a Nationaltali want to get South Carolina back

982
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 1: to the But I got I got time for one more.

983
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: What what? What is? Because you're only in your mid fifties,

984
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: but you're you're starting to get to the sense of

985
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: accomplishment and there's a little bit different ease with how

986
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: you approach so many of these situations. What's left for

987
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 1: you personally and professionally at South Carolina and in the

988
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: coaching profession. You know, Doug, I, uh, I'm not chasing records.

989
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to uh. I don't have. I don't

990
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: have any college pedigree. Before I started coaching college basketball,

991
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: I coached high school ball for a long time. So

992
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 1: my my whole how many wins and all that stuff

993
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: and career record, all that stuff doesn't mean anything to me.

994
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really I'm not driven by that, never have.

995
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: I don't believe I ever will. I just want to

996
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: be happy. I want to trust the people who are

997
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: workd for. I want to make sure that I'm the

998
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: right person for the people I work for and work

999
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: with UM as long as I have that in place.

1000
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: I've never been a job chaser. I was a JV

1001
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: coach for nine years. If you can coach j V

1002
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: basketball the same school for nine years, that means you're

1003
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: not chasing jobs anywhere. And and uh, I you know,

1004
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a piece man. I just want to be

1005
00:55:55,719 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: around ball. As I've gotten older with social media, I

1006
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: love practice. The games have gotten really really hard because

1007
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: winning is really difficult. UM, but everyone has an overreaction

1008
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: to winning in an overreaction to losing. So I've got

1009
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: to manage a locker room full of young people that

1010
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: are overly you know, their emotions are ride with that public,

1011
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: uh way for the most part, whether it's a good

1012
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: one or a bad one. So so the games have

1013
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: gotten difficult. Hugs said it best when he says winning

1014
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: his relief, losing his misery. That's kind of that's kind

1015
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: of what the season feels like. Well, listen, I can't

1016
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: tell you how appreciative I am. Your time. We can

1017
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: do it part three whenever you want, Whenever you want,

1018
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: text will do it. But it's been amazing to be

1019
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: a friend along this journey. And I can't wait to

1020
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 1: see your team play whenever you play in Kansas City

1021
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 1: next week or whether you open up in Colombia in

1022
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: uh in the SEC. Thank you so much. In Happy Thanksgiving,

1023
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: you and your family appreciate it. Dog shame you're away.

1024
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: Thank you. Wasn't that a wow? Wasn't that amazing? I

1025
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: just I love the guy personally because he's he's not

1026
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: just a gentleman and he's tough, hard nosed, but he's fair.

1027
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: He's like basketball is this really interesting family that once

1028
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: you're in, you're kind of in and you may have

1029
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, there's some coaches that personal issues like you know,

1030
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: but you're still in the family. There's coaches that can't

1031
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: coach offense, You're still in the family. There's coach that

1032
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: can't coach defense, is still in the family. We know

1033
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: who you are. And then there's guys that think like

1034
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: the Huggins kind of family. They're all kind of the same.

1035
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: They're tough, but the kind of rugged, bear hug sort

1036
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: of guys that you'd love to hang out with. Andy

1037
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: Kennedy is one of those, and everybody calls them a k.

1038
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: Mike Boyden is kind of part of that part of

1039
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: that family as as well, from his time with Brad Underwood,

1040
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: who of course is an insistent to to both of them.

1041
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: And and they're all in that Huggins family. Really really

1042
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: good guys. And I hope you enjoyed it. I hope

1043
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: you know that that's a good basketball family list. We

1044
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: gotta get Huggins on this, don't we. We absolutely do,

1045
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: all Right'm gonna work on bub Blaggins, Get Bob Huggins.

1046
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: I need to get Jim Beyheim hopefully now he's because

1047
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: he's recording from the Rhona, recovering from the Rhona. In

1048
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: the meantime, my thanks to Frank Martin for that. I

1049
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: was like two and a half hours of talk over

1050
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: two different days. Make sure you download all our All

1051
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: Ball podcast, subscribe rate it. Listen to The Doug gott

1052
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: Leap Show three to sixty Eastern twelve three Pacific, Spox

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Speaker 1: Sports Radio, I Heart Radio app where you can stream

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Speaker 1: us anywhere you want. UM and I appreciate you listen.

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Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball.