1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots to keep 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black, 10 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, 12 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is. 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: And the ancestors told me that you would come to 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: give wisdom thousands. They said you would come, Dropping Dropping Gen. Hey, 15 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: welcome back another episode of the Dropping Gen's podcast. Thank 16 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: you for being here. I'm your host, Deverie Brown. Connect 17 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: with me on I g at Debbie Brown and I 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: want to do a huge shout out to everybody at 19 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: the Black Effect Network and I Heart Radio. That is 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: where my show is so happy to live. But of 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: course you can always connect with the show in all 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: the ways that you listen to podcasts. Today's episode, we 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: are diving into diversity, equity inclusion. This is an area 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: we have not um so specifically touched on in this 25 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: show yet. But I find this moment in time really fascinating, 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: especially as we are now having these conversations in such 27 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: an expansive way globally. And the way that I'm kind 28 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: of experiencing it and noticing it is this down no 29 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: effect right, Like, I feel that really and this is 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: still unfolding, um but so many marginalized communities, oppressed communities globally, 31 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: we are each in many ways having a moment in 32 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: the sun where certain things that have been the norm 33 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: for us but not known for everyone are being brought 34 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: to the forefront and being shared and said explicitly and plainly. 35 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: And the way that I recognize the impact of this 36 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: moment is that it is all in service to our 37 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: collective ascension and the elevation of our consciousness. And this 38 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: is a moment that is thousands of years overdue and 39 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: our millions of years overdue. Depending on who you act 40 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: and what evolutionary timetable you may be following, UM. But 41 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: you know, this past year, I think for many of 42 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: us was really interesting in watching, especially at the top 43 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, when social unrest was really at a 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: height for us here in the US, it was really 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: interesting watching how little ah non communities of color knew 46 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: about the experiences outside of themselves. I think for me, though, 47 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: I think we that's been plainly clear for all of us. UM. 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: It was really deepened for me because I do have 49 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: sometimes the habit of assuming that everyone is like me, 50 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: even though I know very differently. UM. But I do 51 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: always have this this belief inside of me sometimes that 52 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: we are all coming from a space of knowledge, wisdom 53 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: and compassion. UM. And of course you know, we're all 54 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: on our own journeys. And in this moment, I remember, UM, 55 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: James Baldwin said this really perfectly, and I'm paraphrasing now, 56 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: but it was eye opening for me in a clip 57 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: I was watching of him speaking on a television show 58 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: and he said, we have always known how your lives operate. 59 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: You know, you've never known about ours. But every film 60 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: that comes out, every major story, every book, every major 61 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: theme has always centered around whiteness and the goodness of whiteness. 62 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: And because whiteness has been at the forefront of the 63 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: way that we experience ourselves. Um, we've known complexities of 64 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: whiteness very well, you know, I think just being alive 65 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: in America, based on our movies, based on the magazines, 66 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: based on the advertisements, based on the books, based on 67 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: the magazines, based on the history taught in schools, we 68 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: know what it is at every intersection of whiteness. We 69 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: know what it is to be poor white. We know 70 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: what it is to be rich white. We know what 71 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: it is to be blue collar white. We know what 72 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: it is to be um, you know, disenfranchised white. Like 73 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: we know all of the spectrum of the stories and um, 74 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: the challenges and the different degrees that a full spectrum 75 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: of white people experience. And I think for a lot 76 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: of people it gets a little lost on us that, yeah, 77 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: we have the depth of this understanding of that experience 78 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: in a multitude of ways, but it's not reciprocated, it's 79 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: not reflected. There is so much that is unknown about 80 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: the experiences of people who are not in the position 81 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: of power in this country. And so I think that 82 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: that has really lent itself, um to a fascinating moment 83 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: in time. You know, the reactions that we were seeing 84 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of people had to the social unrest 85 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 1: because it was the first time they actually sat down 86 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: and had to witness it and had to know it. 87 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: And for us it was like, well for some of us, um, 88 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: it was like yeah, that's every single day since forever. Um. 89 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: So you know, with all of that, in the way 90 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: that it's expanded, there are more conversations than ever happening 91 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: in really non traditional places. You know, Um, we're in 92 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: our workspaces having sometimes really complex conversations around race, having 93 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: really complex conversations about money, about white supremacy, about so 94 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: many of the systemic structures in place and how they 95 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: affect everyone. And you know, a thing for me that 96 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: was that was a little bit irritating, um, when everything 97 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: was kicking off last year, was this kind of blanket 98 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: statement that was said as a catch all, especially by 99 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: a lot of companies, but by so many people on Instagram, 100 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: the posting of that black uh screen and then the 101 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: terminology of we're listening, we're learning, you know, and I 102 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: remember thinking, who crafted that? What is your real intention? 103 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? What are you studying? 104 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: What are you listening to, what are you learning and 105 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: how will that show up for active change? UM? So 106 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: today's conversation, let's dive into all of these things. UM. 107 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: You know, because we are where we are and we've 108 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: all chosen this human experience, so we're going to be 109 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: here for a while. But as is expanding, and as 110 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: new stories are being new stories are being told, um, 111 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: and as there is this very clear present shift happening 112 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: for all of us, all the billions of people on 113 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: the planet right now. UM, there's so much to look at. 114 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: So on today's show, I have a wonderful, wonderful guest 115 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: that was actually suggested to me, um by a powerful 116 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: listener of this show. And when I when I have 117 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity to really look through her work, I just said, Wow, 118 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: this is somebody that has been really, really in a 119 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: powerful way showing up in the world and doing some 120 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: of this deeply complicated and heavy work for a very 121 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: long time. So today's guest on the show is Dr 122 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: Yewande Austin. She is recognized as an international expert injustice, equity, 123 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion. Dr Austin's work has touched over two 124 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people in thirty countries, including twenty 125 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: three nations across the continent of Africa. She was honored 126 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: to serve as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam's former Special Advisor 127 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: to the Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, the first 128 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: ever state agency of its kind in the Commonwealth of 129 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: Virginia and the nation. And to say that was in Virginia, 130 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: that's a big deal. For the last sixteen years, Dr 131 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: Austin Social Impact Consultancy One Change LLC has impacted over 132 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: three thousand academic institutions, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations through 133 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: programs that explore the powerful intersection between justice, equity, diversity 134 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: and inclusion, leadership, and innovation. Dr yo Wande Austin, Welcome 135 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: to the show. Thanks so much for having me. So 136 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: I think off top before we even get started, we 137 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: were having a beautiful talk about accessories. So anybody that 138 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: follows me, I'm a jewelry girl. I love adorning myself, 139 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: I love accessories. You came on screen looking just stunningly beautiful. 140 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: You have this gorgeous necklace on, and we both started 141 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: talking about how much we love, how much joy can 142 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: be found in that kind of adorning, but I find 143 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: it to also be such a sacred experience for me. 144 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: I think the more I connect with the deepest parts 145 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: of myself, um, the more of banded on my spiritual journey. 146 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: Everything serves a purpose, everything has a meaning, And so 147 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: when I'm putting on accessories, it's always so deeply intentional, 148 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: um and kind of there. It's this curation of how 149 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm showing up in that moment. So, since you have 150 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: such beautiful accessories on it, I would love to know 151 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: what is your spiritual connection to the way that you 152 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: present in the world. M Well, I think that we 153 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: all have a story. I have never been attracted to 154 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: what the masses found to be appealing somehow as the 155 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: universe created me. I've always been connected to the road 156 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: less traveled, and that also relates to how I want 157 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: to present myself. You know, there was a time I 158 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: don't mind saying that I wore tracks and I were 159 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: we use and I I adorned myself with um things 160 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: that were synthetic that I thought represented and I deal 161 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: of beauty. It wasn't until I decided to celebrate an 162 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: honor my natural hair that I found beauty in that 163 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: which others didn't understand, but took a little bit more 164 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: effort to understand. Just like with so many women of 165 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: color and our hair, it takes time, and we are 166 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: so neger to get that immediate gratification in all things 167 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: that we're much more attracted to that than taking a 168 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: little bit more time to understand, to manage, to find 169 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: the beauty in that which is not apparent. And so 170 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: I found the same thing in my jewelry. I have 171 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: a piece of jewelry from every country in which I 172 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: have worked and in the communities where I have served, 173 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: and there's a story behind every piece, just like there 174 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: is on my neck today. This piece is actually from 175 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of the Congo, although I purchased it 176 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: in Atlanta at one of my favorite shops, Afro Centric 177 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: Network on Lee Street, Little Plug and I'm gonna be 178 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: I'm in love with this. I'm gonna be checking out 179 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: their sight when we get off. It's amazing. But a 180 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: piece like this, for example, Debbie, is not one that 181 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: could be replicated. Why because it is created from scraps. Normally, 182 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: a lot of these pieces from Africa are created from scraps, 183 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: from the leftovers from parts either from machinery or from 184 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: wiring or trash that people thought were disposable, but someone 185 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: had the insight to lean in and find the beauty 186 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: in that piece. And so these are scraps of leather 187 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: that are wrapped around pieces of tire. You wouldn't know that, 188 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: But isn't that a metaphor for life that we are 189 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: all on a quest to find the beauty within ourselves? 190 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that I love about 191 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: your show, helping people become deeper connected with their inner selves. 192 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: Because it's easy to put on the adornments and look fabulous, 193 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: but how do you feel? What do you resonance every day? 194 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: How are you intentional showing up in the world. That's 195 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: really a beautiful, beautiful share and reflection and the thing 196 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: that comes up for me and it's I'm really connecting 197 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: to what you were saying as it relates especially to hair, uh, 198 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: like I have, I have a lot of hair. I 199 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: got long hair, it's really curly. Um and that my 200 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: curly hair was a big part of my life for 201 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: most of my life. And then I started using a 202 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: keratin treatment some years ago. So I've been on this 203 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: journey the last year of like retraining my curls and 204 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: being able to connect to the more natural state of myself. 205 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: UM one, because I really wanted to save time and too, 206 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: I just really enjoy my natural state. UM but a 207 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: piece that has been powerful for me as I'm kind 208 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of trying to gently, without judgment, coax my natural being out. Um. 209 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of us we make our own 210 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: like hair products right in our bathrooms, or we make 211 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: our own little refresher sprays for our curls to keep 212 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, in between our wa is. And something that 213 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: I do is I do raiky on my curl refresher 214 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: each time that I make it, so I send it 215 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: energy and then I also put anointing oils in it. 216 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: And so sometimes that looks like a little frankincense and 217 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: mer sometimes it looks like special blends that I've concoct it. 218 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: And every time I'm looking to refresh my hair, I'm 219 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: also charging like my crown chakra and sprain like these 220 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: intentions into my scalp. And I've just found that it's 221 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: really been a beautiful piece of my process. And so, 222 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, kind of as we fit. It's interesting, you know, 223 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: you do really big work in the world and and 224 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna start unpacking all of that, and everyone was 225 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: able to hear some of our introduction. And but what 226 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: I found is, you know, early in my life, I 227 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: really rejected beauty in many ways, Like there were things 228 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: about attractiveness that I've rejected, and I was just like 229 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: way more concerned with being cerebral, way more concerned with 230 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: how I felt I was energetically showing up. And I 231 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: feel like I really rejected some of um, you know, 232 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: some of the qualities of like the divine feminine. I 233 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: was really stuck in some of my um masculine that 234 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: I had taken on for protection, right um and and 235 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: some some of that personal vigilance sometimes we take with 236 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: ourselves depending on our experiences. And part of the journey 237 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: that I found, as I'm always thinking deeper into my 238 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: authentic self is letting my natural inter radiance come out 239 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: and actually taking care with myself. When I was younger, 240 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: I was I was so in rejection of beauty and 241 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: my own appearance that I wouldn't spend time with myself. 242 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: I was working through this thought this week where I 243 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: was like, I wouldn't even deep condition my hair because 244 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: I resented the amount of time. It took right. I 245 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: didn't want to be in front of the mirror for 246 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: that long. And now it's one of the things that 247 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: I savor and really look forward to giving myself that care. 248 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: And I found that the way I care for myself 249 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: in that way that I used to think was a 250 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: little more vapid or you know, just maybe surface, it 251 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: actually allows me to show up really powerfully in my 252 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: work and really powerfully in the world. And I feel 253 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: cared for and I feel protected, and I also feel 254 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: like that investment that I put into me. UM. So 255 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: I just, yeah, that came forward for me as we 256 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: were kind of beginning this conversation. But Debbie, I so 257 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: relate to that. You know, the world that both of 258 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: us do today, UM didn't come overnight. It came through. UM. 259 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,359 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of trials for me, early trauma 260 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: in my life, UM that put me into a cocoon 261 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: that took years for me to break free of. People 262 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: don't understand that today. They don't quite honestly believe me 263 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: that I was a wallflower in high school, that I 264 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: was that little girl that was really afraid of her shadow. 265 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: But I'm so grateful that there are people along the 266 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: way that saw the beauty within first that was so 267 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: important to my growth. Um And and when I also 268 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: think back to a time when I was just a 269 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: little girl and experienced some early traumas, and I remember 270 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: my mom um setting up our first apartment after she 271 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: had left my father and living in a closet for 272 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: the first several years of my life, and she saw 273 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: that I was angry. I was very sad as a 274 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: little girl. Um. It saddens her today to know that 275 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: I had very little joy as a child growing up 276 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: because I was burdened with so many of those adult 277 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: issues that a lot of children around the world are 278 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: introduced too far too early in their lives. And it 279 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: changes who you are. It shapes a very important part 280 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: of who you are, how you see yourself, and how 281 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: you show up in the world. But you know, there's 282 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: a very important lesson that my mom taught me very 283 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: early on that I'm grateful for to this day, and 284 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: that is I didn't have to be defined by my 285 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: circumstances and I could become better because of what I 286 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: had overcome. She taught me very early on that if 287 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: I were to succeed, to be happy, um, to walk 288 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: in the fullness of myself that it was my responsibility 289 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: and it came from within. That one lesson has served 290 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: as the ethos of my work around the world is 291 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: that no matter what it is that we're going through, 292 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: the answers to solve the world's greatest problems are within 293 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: their right there. But if we could get to a 294 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: point where we don't cover up, right, we're not covering 295 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: up with the things I talked about, the tracks and 296 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: the weaves, and this is no disrespect to anybody who 297 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: does wear them, but I think we have to think 298 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: about why we do these things. Why why do we 299 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: subscribe to serve ideals of beauty or how we should 300 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: show up in the world and put all of that energy, 301 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: not only the finance. I remember spending a lot of 302 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: money on that and going on and making sure I 303 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: had my lashes, although I must say I was rushing 304 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: to get my little false eyelashes on before my interview 305 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: because sometimes I feel naked without with you today without them, 306 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: And first I appreciate that, but before us to check ourselves, 307 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: like what is that in my brain? At a certain 308 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: point that said, I have to be lashing to have 309 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: a last fully on to watch the fullness of who 310 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: I am and to be fabulous. You already got it. 311 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: If you are true to yourself, even when people don't 312 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: believe in you, even when times get tough, your beauty 313 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: will radiate through uh like a little lash I have 314 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: stuck in my eye that I've been trying to move up. 315 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: But I for the first five minutes of our interview, 316 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: as my eyes have been watering, you will still radiate 317 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: through that. You will still rise above if you are 318 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: true to who you are. It's when we start listening 319 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: to the static and we start paying attention to images 320 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: and the narrative that other people put out there that 321 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: we should subscribe to. When we're not true to to 322 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: who we are, that's when we diminish our beauty. It's 323 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: it's so interesting actually to be leaning into this piece 324 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: of it and I think, um that this is a part. 325 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: This is a conversation I haven't had yet on this show, 326 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: like really in and I think it's powerful because I think, 327 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and the work which we're going 328 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: to step into is like one thing, but it's also 329 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: how do I drive my ship to be able to 330 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: show up for the calling on my life? Right? How 331 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: can I get so tapped into my inner radiance that 332 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: that is a piece I don't have to think a 333 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: lot of about because it's part of my ritual. It's 334 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: part of how I offer myself to God and myself 335 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: every day and in every way. And it's funny, Um, 336 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, I remember when I was younger, and things 337 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: are a little different in this moment, Like the last 338 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: couple of years, we've we've come into such expansive conversations 339 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: around womanhood, around um, you know, all the societal contracts, 340 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: including the way that we view ourselves through leading advertisement 341 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 1: shows and all the things of the time. And so 342 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: I found for me that being in the global pandemic, 343 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: like being in my house for a year, not being 344 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: able to get my my nails and TOAs done, especially 345 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: in the first few months, or get my hair done, 346 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: which was my go to was always just go for 347 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: a blow dry because I didn't want to spend time 348 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: doing my hair by myself, you know, um, and really 349 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: like pouring down our clothes, and you know it, it 350 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: created like a moment for me where I felt the 351 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: most beautiful, like I really was able to just sit 352 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: and be with myself with all without all of the 353 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: trappings and also without any of the feedback, any of 354 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: the in person um you know, body language or comments 355 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: or experiences, and so you really get to know, like 356 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: what is leading me to whatever my look is or 357 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: however I want to present and each day and you know, 358 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: I remember when I was younger, especially when I was 359 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: working in radio, I used to do we have so 360 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: many interviews and you know, every other day, like we'd 361 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: have different artists or you know, people coming on to 362 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: to be on the show. And you know, sometimes you're tired, 363 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: you show up at work. You don't want to be 364 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: all blah blah blah, you know, blah blah bam. And 365 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking. I was talking to a friend of mine, 366 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: my friend Saddi Simone, about this, and I was like, 367 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: I remember there was a time I used to apologize 368 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: for my face, you know, like if I was ever 369 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: ran into someone in public and I didn't happen to 370 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: have makeup on, or my hair was an a ponytail, 371 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: but like, oh my god, I'm sorry, don't look at 372 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: my face. And I put on like glasses, you know, 373 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: and I'd be wearing glasses inside like sunglasses, and I'm like, 374 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: oh sorry, I didn't I didn't have time to put 375 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: my makeup on today, or oh I didn't do my hair, 376 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: and that was a regular thing for women then, right, 377 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: And this wasn't that long ago, but it isn't now. 378 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: And that's really interesting to look at how how our 379 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: paradigm shifts happen and so instantaneous, and then everything is 380 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: different and we have these new permissions and now I'm 381 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: looking back like, how would I Why on earth would 382 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: I ever apologize for how I look to anyone? Why 383 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: would I ever give that amount of power to anyone? 384 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: Uh So, it's really Yeah, it's interesting to explore at 385 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: the different stages of our ages of life. You know, 386 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: how we the layers in which we can accept ourselves 387 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: feeding into the stereotypes we we've all been led him 388 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: up and really at some point been um um distracted 389 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: by external noise and allowed it to become our internal noise. 390 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: But this pandemic, with all of the catastrophic losses, the 391 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: destruction of our economy, of our comfort even within our 392 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: own spaces, because now we have to share them with 393 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: some people who we are questioning while we were with 394 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: them in the first place, and it has now forced 395 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: us to confront the external noise that we allowed into 396 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: our homes where now we have been contained to stay safe. 397 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: But we're finding Wait a minute, there's so much more 398 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: noise in this space than what I remembered before the pandemic. 399 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: Because I was able to leave, I was able to 400 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: escape that, I was able to pretend that it did 401 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: not exist. Stract now we have been forced to come 402 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: face to face with all of the lies that we 403 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: have fed into and it is time and all of 404 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: the personal betrayals that we may have even made to ourselves, 405 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: all of it, all of it. It's time for us 406 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: to get real about everything. In light of all of 407 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: the destruction that COVID has caused, it has also created 408 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: what I call an era of reawakening that we fell asleep. 409 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: I think we fell asleep after President Obama. We thought 410 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: there was no way that we could go back, and 411 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: we did not take advantage um of our rights to vote. 412 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: And we see where that got us. We have not 413 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: taken care of our bodies. We see where that has 414 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: gotten some of us with our our COVID weight. Maya 415 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: colpa I ate brownies. For about the first three months, 416 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: I was struggling with the transition listen, and I'm a 417 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: motivational speaker. But the motivational speaker was like, wait a minute, right, 418 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: it's something that had never been I've been through some 419 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: things deby brown and the life. I have survived a 420 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: heart attack, bilateral pneumonia. I work with human trafficking victims 421 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: and orphans and in conflict zones. I've been through some things. 422 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: I've seen some things. Haven't seen this one. So we 423 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: started neglecting our body and again tapping into other things 424 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: like brownies that made us feel made us think that 425 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: we felt better. For me, it was green tea ice cream. 426 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: I ate that every single night, Like I could not 427 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: go to bed without having some every single night of 428 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Right, that's amazing. But it forced us to 429 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: get real aboutism in this country. As with the death 430 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: of George Floyd. I find it fascinating that it ignited 431 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: this fight against police brutality around the world, because in America, 432 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: will labor Wait a minute, this has been going on 433 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: for four hundred years. What made it different. It's because 434 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: we were forced to be still and everyone was four 435 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: to witness it, yes, and to not move around and 436 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: to not be distracted by the external noise. Now that 437 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: external noise became our internal pain, that we made a collective, 438 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: universal agreement. We were no longer okay by sitting still 439 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: and saying that was someone else's pain. I feel sorry 440 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: for George Floyd, but that's too bad that had happened 441 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: to him and his family. But that's not my problem. 442 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: And I thank God and the universe for that that 443 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: I think the entire world has finally seen we can 444 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: no longer subscribe to this idea that's that someone else's pain, 445 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: because when it affects one of us, it affects all 446 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: of us. And then we're so awakened that now we're 447 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: seeing case after case after case of Brianna Taylor and 448 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: Dante right, and we're saying, wait a minute, what's going on? 449 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: This has been going on, but rayism has not always 450 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: been as blatant as um hanging lynching. It has not 451 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: always been as blatant as police brutality. Now we are 452 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: so awake and alive that we're recognizing we also don't 453 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: have to work in spaces where we're not valued, we're 454 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: not receiving equitable compensation, where we psychologically don't feel safe, 455 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: where spiritually we feel we have been re enslaved in 456 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: some spaces. I've worked in some of those spaces, and 457 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: I can say during the pandemic, I'm saying, no, I'm free. 458 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: And we're recognizing now the critical intersection between our spiritual selves, 459 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: our social selves, and also our emotional selves, and that 460 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: they're also deeply connected. That we can no longer forsake 461 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: one of them just for the sake of getting ahead 462 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: financially or when it comes to our our beauty. None 463 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: of that matters, you know, at the core of it 464 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: is not what we embodied on earth to know. And 465 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: do you know there's so much more available. You've been 466 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: doing the work of diversity. I mean for just so 467 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: long globally. I'm really interested in your perspective of in 468 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: the last year especially. I think two of the well, 469 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: i'll say three of the words that I think kind 470 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: of took over our vernacular in one form of another 471 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: was mental health, wellness and diversity. And I remember, you know, 472 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: when when the social unrest really broke out around this 473 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: time last year, as you as you said, you know, 474 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: for many of us, it was like, yeah, this has 475 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: been happening every day since human existence, Like hello, you know, 476 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: but I think, Um, the thing that we noticed was 477 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: that everyone was called to quote unquote action. A lot 478 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: of it was performative, the black boxes, right, like the 479 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: we're listening, we're learning, you know, and and it's like, okay, 480 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: so what does that mean and what does that mean 481 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: in practice? But I'm really curious, um, having done this 482 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: work globally in in many different ways for so long, 483 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: what are you noticing about diversity in this moment? How 484 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: is that showing up? Is there real weight behind it? Um? 485 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: And what's necessary for our spaces to truly be diverse 486 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: in the way that they should be. Yeah, it's so 487 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: very interesting that you ask that, because for the last 488 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: sixteen years I have taught d e I Diversity, equity 489 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: and inclusion as a completely separate subject from social justice. 490 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: I think it was this part of myself that felt that, Um, 491 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: A lot of people are either intimidated by or maybe 492 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: turned off by the idea of social activism because that 493 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: concept is passe, right, because we've already won the fights. Right. 494 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: We've got through the through Jim Crow, we got through 495 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: the freedom of enslaved human beings here in this country, 496 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: we got through the civil rights movement. We have our 497 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: first identifiable elected presidents. So a lot of people feel 498 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: like the idea of activism is passe, even though it's 499 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: always been very deeply ingrained in my heart. So I felt, Debbie, 500 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: I think this responsibility for not shoving it down someone's 501 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: throat if they wanted to learn about activism and social justice. 502 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm happy to lead those conversations and teach those tools, 503 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: but it's optional. I've also focused more on d E 504 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: and I in corporate and academic spaces, and and in 505 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: more recent years, have started integrating that into the work 506 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: that I do internationally. Thinking again, I don't want to 507 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: force in that particular case, I don't want to force 508 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: American perspectives on the international communities that I serve, but 509 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: I now recognize that they are all intrinsically connected. We 510 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: now recognize that D E and I are just three 511 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: of a multitude of tools we need to create more 512 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: equitable spaces. But I can tell you, as a D 513 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: E I expert, that diversity doesn't work. It doesn't work 514 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: because while I was working out of the belly of 515 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: Jim Crow, we are still dealing with people who are 516 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: no longer physically shackled and chained, but they are economically 517 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: shackled and chained with people that are no longer legally 518 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: raped on a plantation. But it is acceptable for a 519 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: woman or a man to be um accosted by the 520 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: law enforcement professional professionals that we hired to and protect 521 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: us and rate behind closed doors or or behind bars, 522 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: and somehow in a system that they're still allowed to 523 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: get away with it. So it's a different type of rape. 524 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: So we don't see the same forms of slavery that 525 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: existed four hundred years ago. But I would challenge you 526 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: and your audience to think about in many ways that 527 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: there are our communities that are siloed in poverty, not 528 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: by accident, but intentional slavery is still alive and well. 529 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: The modern forms of slavery, like the prison industrial complex, 530 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: very much alive and well. Segregated schools that still exist, 531 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: and some people will be shocked to hear that the 532 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: large majority of public schools in this country are still segregated. 533 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: We don't call them that, but depending on where you 534 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: live determines on the quality of education that you get. 535 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: That is still segregation and it is legal. So I 536 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: say that diversity alone is not enough, and for professionals 537 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: that have brought me for so many years that um 538 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: say that they don't have the funding or the time 539 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: and they want me to come in and just conduct 540 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: a forty five minute or one our diversity training for 541 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: this month and think that that's okay. It won't work 542 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: if you think that getting on the bandwagon of hiring 543 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: a chief diversity officer, which linked in. According to their report, 544 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: two percent of their hires in two thousand and twenty 545 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: were chief diversity officers who in two thousand and twenty 546 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: one aren't staying in these positions because they're passionate and 547 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: serious experts in this work and find that they're working 548 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: in companies that aren't truly committed their companies that are 549 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: there checking a box. They're checking a box and putting 550 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: a band aid on the problem because our staff is 551 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: saying that we are not equitable. We've got to make 552 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: a statement and take a stand on on where we 553 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: support diversity. That they're thinking that they have done the work, 554 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: that's not the work. You're not doing the work of 555 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: diversity off, you're not making a serious financial commitment and 556 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: investment in the work. If you are not encouraging conversations 557 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: in safe places, if you are not assessing your hiring 558 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: policies and benefits, and the list goes on and on. 559 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: We now know that diversity alone doesn't work. What we 560 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: really want is a new framework that we recognize now 561 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: as JEDI. That's justice, equity, diversity, and include that we 562 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: realize that we must bring justice from the margins to 563 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: the forefront of everything that we do. When we lead 564 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,760 Speaker 1: with justice, we we really speak to our spiritual selves. 565 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, we say that we commit first to doing 566 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: the right thing, first, last, and always we put ourselves 567 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: in the feet of uh and the shoes I'm sorry, 568 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: rather of others. We consider others feelings and how our 569 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: choices will impact them. Yeah, and we think about having 570 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: the courage to open and confront conversations that before we 571 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: have been afraid of of leading. Because the the sad 572 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: fact is that we do live in two America's. One 573 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: America that was built for a privileged few to have 574 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: access to all the resources that they needed not just 575 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: to survive, but to thrive, and then we live in 576 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: yet another America where the system has been designed knowingly 577 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: and intentionally allowing too many people to still suffer, and 578 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: they're okay with it. So we we have to get 579 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: to a space now where diversity is not enough. It's 580 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: a part of the solution that it's not the total. 581 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: What we really want is justice for every single human being. 582 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: How does that present itself in the workplace? For a 583 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: workplace to actively have radical transformation where everyone is fully 584 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: respected her, they're making been a facial contributions into the world. 585 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: How does that become a reality in these places? And 586 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: have you seen it? Like, have you really seen corporate 587 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: and company structures being able um to show up powerfully? 588 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are some companies that are doing great 589 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: work around justice. But I can give you one example. 590 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: One of my clients I've been working with now for 591 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: nine months, who CEO told me, we really want to 592 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: do the work. Um, there's seven mindsets. They're one of 593 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: the biggest social emotional learning companies in the country, and 594 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: I have been conducting some real surgical Jedi work on 595 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: their company for nine months. For a CEO to make 596 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: a courageous step like bringing in a Jedi expert to 597 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: operate on their company to not only assess all over 598 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: their curriculum, to assess their organization and make sure that 599 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: they are an inclusive organization. We just completed a racial 600 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: equity impact assessment. It's scary. It has ruffled a few 601 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: feathers UM and even created UM, let's just say, some 602 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: interesting conversations within the company. An assessment would look very 603 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: much like if you went into a doctor's office and UM, 604 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: they lead an examination of you physically. So I'm coming 605 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: in and I'm assessing everything from your curriculum to your 606 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: hiring policies. I am conducting anonymous surveys with your executive 607 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: leadership team as well as your staff UM to assess 608 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: your position and or feelings about equity, inclusion diversity within 609 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: your company. Do you feel psychologically safe expressing your race 610 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: or ethnicity? UM. Are you invited into conversations that would 611 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: help you advance your career or are you excluded from 612 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: those conversations. Do you feel that you are receiving equitable 613 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: compensation based on the lived experiences that you're bringing to 614 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: a workplace. Historically, we have perhaps put too much value 615 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: on academic credentials and even professional credentials. That are important, 616 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: of course, to demonstrate what you have accomplished as a professional, 617 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: but there are so many lived experiences that professionals, especially 618 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: of the bipop community, Black Indigenous people of color possess 619 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: that because of racism, they may not have had an 620 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: opportunity to advance academically, but that doesn't remove their opportunity 621 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: to contribute significantly to your growth as a company. So 622 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: are those lived experiences being evaluated in the hiring process? 623 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: Is your compensation equitable with men in the firm? White 624 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: men in the firm, especially, who still earn in upwards 625 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: of already sends more on a dollar than an African 626 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: American woman and more than of of an Hispanic woman 627 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: for the same job, the same responsibilities, the same leadership role. 628 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: So we're taking really an assessment of of the entire 629 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: framework of your company, and then I'm generating a report 630 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: for you with recommendations for how you move forward. So 631 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: there are companies like Seven Mindsets that are making courageous, 632 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: bold moves to say what we've done before is important work, 633 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: but now we recognize we have a greater responsibility as 634 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: a result of that, they have some clients who have 635 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: complained that they have more people that are leaning in 636 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: and recognizing the power of them being bold and making 637 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: a commitment to using their educational platform as an opportunity 638 00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: to show young impressionable minds the power and the important 639 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: and the beauty of diversity. What called you to this work? Mmmm? 640 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,240 Speaker 1: I think because I was that kid that was always 641 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: different and felt weird in my difference, not recognizing that 642 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: it was my beauty, it was my cape. If we 643 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: all had a superhero cape, my weirdness would have it 644 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't been my cape. I gotta tell you, As a child, 645 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: I have always been more fascinated about social justice and 646 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: my gosh, Debbie, when I found out that there were 647 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: pioneers like Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth and Frederick Douglas 648 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: who used music in the arts, which were always precious 649 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,919 Speaker 1: to me as weapons for change. What nobody else talking 650 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: about that in class? You know, they were talking about 651 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: what cars they wanted to drive and being a superstar. 652 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: And yet my mother, Um, I mean, God bless her 653 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: for having the clarity to drag me to see the 654 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: homes of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson when I was 655 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: a child, because the stories that I learned about them 656 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: in school were they were these heroes, right, and there 657 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: was a time that they were a hero to some 658 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: but oppressors to others. I would not have learned those 659 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: truths if my mother had not dragged me, because I 660 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: Nes was not trying to be my friend, okay, and 661 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: Nels was trying to ensure that her child was exposed 662 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: to the truth. Those were life changing moments for me 663 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: to go to these plantations and see the slave quarters. 664 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: I actually have a slave quarters right in my backyard. 665 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: You'll have to come visit me sometime. I live in 666 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: a year old historic home UM with the slave quarters 667 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: that are attached. But to not only see those slave 668 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: quarters as a child, but learn about the career stories 669 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: of my ancestors who invented everything from the traffic light 670 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: to ironing boards to building some of the most beautiful 671 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: buildings that we've seen in this country. We're not taught 672 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: those stories in school. Debvy and didn't like history in school. 673 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: The true history, the untold history, is what we really 674 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: need to celebrate, right it has yet to be told. 675 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: So my mom was doing that and taking me to 676 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: see Leontine Price and UM so many you know where 677 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: I I learned as a child that UM, you could 678 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: break a stereotype and rebuild a narrative through music. You 679 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: take a story of a man like George Gershwin, a 680 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: Jewish man that was born into poverty and had the 681 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: courage to dismantle the stereotype of of African Americans as 682 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: poor and ignorant and develop an opera for first all 683 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: Black cast where you would sing all see a woman 684 00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: that wasn't just singing a Negro spiritual or maybe into 685 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: taining people and like le fol bilj with Josephine paper, 686 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: which was wonderful. But to hear a Leontine price to 687 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: sing a m P and iud never go w nowhere 688 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 1: listen shree. Yeah. So seeing what a treat, thank you, 689 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: the beauty, thank you, I didn't warm up for that one, 690 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: but I want to share a little. But seeing the 691 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: tereotypes being broken as a child showed me that I 692 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: could take charge of the narrative that I wanted to 693 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: create in my life, and I could show other people 694 00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: also how to create a story, not where the story 695 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: ends in poverty and sadness and loss, but a story 696 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 1: that ends the way that they have scripted it, one 697 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: of triumph, one of resilience and hope. Mm hmm, hold 698 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: that thought. We are coming right back. So two things. One, 699 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: I love how you just dropped all that glory on 700 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: us and kept going. So I gotta call that out 701 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: of that was such a beautiful Uh, thank you for 702 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: sharing that that other layer of you and your artistry. 703 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: M hmm, you know what really, So what I'm hearing 704 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: and what you're saying is one I'm hearing you know 705 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: something that that for me is always a character touristic 706 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: of deepest connection to God Um and deepest purpose, which 707 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: is it's just an insatiable curiosity. It is, it's a 708 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: piece of you that longs to investigate, that longs to 709 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: know the origins of the deeper story to Um. And 710 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: then I'm also really experiencing the pioneering work because I 711 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,399 Speaker 1: think for many of us you know this these terms right, 712 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: like the work of d e I, the work of Jedi, 713 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: like for many of us, this is on the forefront. 714 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: Especially this year, we're really understanding pieces that have been missing, 715 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: things that are necessary, UM. Certain certain words are coming 716 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: to the forefront, equity, inclusion and diversity, justice, UM. But 717 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: to have been doing this work for so long, I'm 718 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,879 Speaker 1: really fascinated to know how did you find this as 719 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,440 Speaker 1: your path? Like a work that was not known on 720 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: the mainstream level but is It's truly some of the 721 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: deepest work one can dedicate their life too, and also 722 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: one of the most exhaustive types of work that one 723 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 1: could dedicate their lives. So you are constantly educating, you 724 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: are constantly filling yourself with knowledge and seeking, and it's beautiful, 725 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: but it is tiring. It is tiring to hold space 726 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: in that way, UM, for such important work and sometimes 727 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: such profoundly heavy work. UM. So how did you find 728 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: yourself creating this life for you? In this work that 729 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,959 Speaker 1: you share? M. I find it interesting that you say 730 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,479 Speaker 1: how did I find it? Because I think it really 731 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 1: found me and it it comes from the earliest traumas 732 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,439 Speaker 1: that I experienced to my life, which I alluded to before. UM. 733 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: But there's something to that, you know. I think that 734 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: most of us tend to think that trauma has to 735 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: manifest itself in or that it will invariably manifest itself 736 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,720 Speaker 1: in very negative ways throughout our lives. The word trauma 737 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: is is heavy. It's a big one. There's no there's 738 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: no getting around it. We're not talking about a wound, 739 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: we're not talking about a scrape, we're not talking about 740 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:32,879 Speaker 1: a pimple. Trauma is to your core on a cellular level, right, 741 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: And on a cellular level, if we recognize that everything 742 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 1: about us is energy, right, everything that comes in and 743 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,280 Speaker 1: out of us as energy, then that means that trauma 744 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 1: is a negative energy that literally can disrupt the flow 745 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 1: shape and even growth patterns within our our body. We 746 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: tend to think that that story has already been written, 747 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,720 Speaker 1: that we have a child ex experiences a certain trauma 748 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: or even compounded traumas earlier in life that has already 749 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: defined their path. Very rarely do we look at the 750 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,759 Speaker 1: fact that some of the greatest triumphs and beauty are 751 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: born from death and conflict. If you just look at 752 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:23,240 Speaker 1: the way a seed is planted, a seed is planted 753 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: in dirt. You know what my favorite flowers is the 754 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: lotus flower because it can only grow in mud. And 755 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: look that most of us don't think is appealing. It 756 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,960 Speaker 1: doesn't feel good, it's gritty, But what emerges out of 757 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,799 Speaker 1: that muddy water is this glorious flower. So going back 758 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 1: to a seed and what a seed has to go through, 759 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: buried in dirt and darkness, right, that only when it 760 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:58,400 Speaker 1: is rained on constantly and fertilized sometimes by some human 761 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: a dog waste, right, and it has to pierce through 762 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 1: that soil and withstand torrential storms and harsh sun and 763 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: other waste that is poured upon that seed as it 764 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 1: as it fights to grow. But ultimately, not only does 765 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 1: it produce a glorious flower, but emits oxygen that we 766 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,960 Speaker 1: depend on. We don't think about conflict or trauma resulting 767 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,359 Speaker 1: in beauty. And I think that I recognized early on, 768 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: with with some help and a lot of tough love, 769 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,759 Speaker 1: that the beauty within me I could either bury and 770 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,240 Speaker 1: stay rooted in sadness and anger, or I could choose 771 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: to fertilize it and use the lessons that I learned 772 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 1: from overcoming those traumas to help other people. I chose 773 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: the latter path. It was a choice, and debby, it 774 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: is a choice that I make every single day. And 775 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: I want your listeners to recognize is that they have 776 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 1: a choice that they can make every single day to 777 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: walk in their beauty, to identify it, to look past 778 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: the muck and the mire, and to recognize that they 779 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 1: were born perfectly and beautifully made, even with their COVID 780 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 1: brownie pounds on them. Because we can get rid of those, right, 781 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,759 Speaker 1: we can get rid of those, but how about that 782 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: internal work. UM. I almost say that I expressed to 783 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: you that I've been through some really big traumas in 784 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: in my life, and I'd say one of the toughest 785 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,879 Speaker 1: was when I had a heart attack eight years ago. 786 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:45,279 Speaker 1: I'm a survivor and I lost everything. I mean everything. 787 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,520 Speaker 1: There were days where I couldn't even um didn't have 788 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,160 Speaker 1: enough money to pay for my power, and I lived 789 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: in darkness and there was a lot of shame with that. 790 00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: UM My family didn't even know because there was shame 791 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,759 Speaker 1: in this loss that I had sperience. Here, I've overcome 792 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,279 Speaker 1: this huge hurdle in fighting for my life. But I 793 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, after forty um some odd visits to 794 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: the doctor's office and four stays in the hospital and 795 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: not not knowing whether I would live or not, many 796 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,279 Speaker 1: times I would often go home and crawl into my 797 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:26,319 Speaker 1: bed and I would think it would have been so 798 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 1: much easier for me not to have survived, because why 799 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,200 Speaker 1: is it that I have helped all of these people 800 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,879 Speaker 1: all around the world and I now can't even take 801 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: care of myself and I am afraid of dying every 802 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: single day Because that trauma, right when you experience it 803 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: once there is a perpetual sense of fear that it's 804 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: going to happen again, so why should I even try. 805 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,439 Speaker 1: It was much easier for me to stay in bed 806 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,759 Speaker 1: in total darkness and cold than it was to pull 807 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: myself up and decide to fight. But Debbie, when I 808 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,760 Speaker 1: started getting really sick of myself and stick could feeling 809 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,000 Speaker 1: tired for myself, bad for myself, I'm sorry, and I 810 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: got tired of crying, and I decided something beautiful can 811 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: come out of this. I wrote a list of the 812 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: things that brought me the greatest joy and what my 813 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,479 Speaker 1: greatest strengths were, and I rebuilt my life. And I've 814 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,520 Speaker 1: used that model many many times. I've taught children around 815 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 1: the world that there are three pillars of life that 816 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 1: if you can achieve these, you can pretty much get 817 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 1: through anything. And that is number one, figuring out who 818 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: you want to be, how to become that person, and 819 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: then how to remain true to being that person in 820 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,719 Speaker 1: the darkest moments of your life. And I think that 821 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: the lessons that I have gleaned from overcoming some of 822 00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: the greatest traumas in my life have helped people find 823 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: the greatness within themselves. And that's why I choose to 824 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: do this work. I choose to do this work every 825 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: single day because I see other people growing from and 826 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,479 Speaker 1: becoming more beautified by this work, and it's hard to 827 00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,439 Speaker 1: let go of that. Yes, it's hard work, but when 828 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,120 Speaker 1: you see other people growing from the skills that you 829 00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: have gleaned from your own suffering and survival, then it's 830 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: easy to want to lean in to do the hard work. 831 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: Because when we plant that seed of hope, uh and 832 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: possibilities and others, than it makes the world better. And 833 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 1: that's what I choose to do every single day. Amazing, amazing. 834 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: It's I love, UM, especially that you so eloquently are 835 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: speaking to beauty because there's a very specific spiritual path 836 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: that is called the Beauty Way, and it's ancient. It's 837 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: from you know, all the realms UM since in antiquity. 838 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,720 Speaker 1: But it's all about that path of leaning into joy, 839 00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,200 Speaker 1: cultivating your inner radiance as a tool for trans did 840 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 1: healing and self mastery. So I think that that is 841 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:09,239 Speaker 1: just exquisite. UM. At the end of every show, I 842 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: love to share some soul work with the audience, and 843 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,160 Speaker 1: I would love to invite you to offer potentially a 844 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: self care practice, maybe a journal prompt or something that 845 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: can be savored when this episode ends. For each listener, 846 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,960 Speaker 1: m So, I would say first that that which brings 847 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: you the greatest joy, lean into that. We often question 848 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,359 Speaker 1: that which brings us joy, especially if it doesn't fit 849 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,240 Speaker 1: into that box that we have been conditioned to believe 850 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,360 Speaker 1: we're supposed to fit neatly in, and that if you 851 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 1: don't fit into that box somehow, if you're on the 852 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,800 Speaker 1: outside of it, that somehow you have taken a wrong turn. 853 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,600 Speaker 1: Instead of recognizing that every single one of us has 854 00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: a divine path that we're supposed to follow, and that 855 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: no buddy's path looks the same. So lean into that 856 00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,280 Speaker 1: which brings you joy, and you will see the infinite 857 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,920 Speaker 1: possibilities that exist within that. When we exist in a 858 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 1: space of joy, when we protect and nurture that joy, 859 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:23,359 Speaker 1: doors open the universal binds in our favor for the 860 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: right people, the right resources and opportunities and knowledge for 861 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,720 Speaker 1: us to celebrate that every single day of our lives. 862 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,719 Speaker 1: And I would challenge your audience to do that. When 863 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,799 Speaker 1: you find that joy, do it every single day of 864 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:44,600 Speaker 1: your life. So beautiful dr one day, Austin, How can 865 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,000 Speaker 1: everyone find you? How can they connect with you. Yeah, 866 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: so there are a few ways they can reach out 867 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: to me on Facebook. Um, I have a fledgling social 868 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: media page, but you can find me on Facebook at 869 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,440 Speaker 1: your Wandi Austin dot not dot com. I'm sorry you 870 00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: will hand the Austin on Facebook. You can also find 871 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,560 Speaker 1: out more about my humanitarian work at Change International dot 872 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:18,800 Speaker 1: org and Global Institute for Diversity and Change dot com. 873 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. This has been 874 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,520 Speaker 1: such a joy spending this time with you, and thank 875 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 1: you for your internal and external radiance. Thank you for 876 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: having me, Debbie. Hey, find me on social Let's connect 877 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to 878 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,960 Speaker 1: my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening 879 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't 880 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,840 Speaker 1: forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode 881 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: to a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I 882 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple 883 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,280 Speaker 1: and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 884 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,160 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 885 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.