Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Before we get to our very special episode
Speaker 1: with Chris cole for we have an exciting announcement. Snakes
Speaker 1: Miss is back, so please join us for a live
Speaker 1: taping of and That's What You Really Missed live from
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio Theater in Los Angeles. We are
Speaker 1: raising funds and awareness in loving memory of our friend
Speaker 1: Naya Rivera to benefit Alexandria House. Celebrate the holidays with
Speaker 1: us and keep the snakes Miss spirit alive. Join us
Speaker 1: in person at the I Heart Radio Theater or watch
Speaker 1: the live stream. Special guests, performances, unbelievable gleeful auction items,
Speaker 1: and a live podcast. Here are the details. In person
Speaker 1: event December six at seven pm from the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio Theater in Los Angeles. And for those of you
Speaker 1: that can't join us in person, we are streaming the
Speaker 1: event on December eight at five pm Pacific time, and
Speaker 1: don't worry, we'll be watching right along with you and
Speaker 1: chatting with you live. We will even have a virtual
Speaker 1: meet and greet option. Tickets are available on box office
Speaker 1: dot Mandolin dot com. We're placing the direct link to
Speaker 1: the tickets on our Instagram bio and the notes of
Speaker 1: this podcast episode. So go check it out and we'll
Speaker 1: see you there. Mary Snicks miss and That's what you
Speaker 1: Really missed with Jenna and Kevin and I Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to and That's what You Really missed podcasts. I
Speaker 1: am Jenna Schwitz, I'm Kevin McHale and today's a great day.
Speaker 1: Today is a great day, Kevin, it is. We had
Speaker 1: a really good conversation with one of our besties, Chris
Speaker 1: call for Um. We talked about the beginnings of Glee
Speaker 1: where we all were as children, and literally he was
Speaker 1: a child eighteen years old. He was actually a hyeah.
Speaker 1: Um no, it's a really he's just again like we're
Speaker 1: going with the theme of like open and honest, and
Speaker 1: I think people really appreciate hearing from him this way.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, he's he's He's Chris. He'll always
Speaker 1: be a little Chris to me, but he's all grown
Speaker 1: up now and has nineteen running an empire. Yeah, okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: let's get to it. Enjoy a conversation with Chris Colfort. Hi, Chris,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on here to talk to us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, love love love talking to you, guys. We
Speaker 1: are we're grateful to have you here. Chris Coleford for
Speaker 1: everybody listening. Um, and I'm excited to talk to you
Speaker 1: today about ship we didn't we don't talk about normally,
Speaker 1: like we know your audition, we know we know about
Speaker 1: like how you got on the show. Like I want
Speaker 1: to like dive deeper into like your experience, um, as
Speaker 1: much as you're willing to share, um, because it was
Speaker 1: so um unique and jarring in some ways, I'm sure
Speaker 1: um and from the outside, you know, looking in and
Speaker 1: being like a just kind of close to you, but
Speaker 1: like I just can't imagine after all this time and
Speaker 1: space away from the show, like you being able to
Speaker 1: think about things and process them differently and like where
Speaker 1: you're at and all those great things. So um, thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. Who
Speaker 1: do I who do I send the bill to? Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean wrong joke. I mean I meant like, this
Speaker 1: is therapy and you can billing me any girls are
Speaker 1: sent to Ryan Riffy Productions. Very good, Kevin, he seems
Speaker 1: to be open to it. So um, well all right,
Speaker 1: let's just jump in. Don't you think Jen and I
Speaker 1: were talking about this. I think when you're young, you
Speaker 1: just sort of like we all accepted, like we're all here,
Speaker 1: we got hired and we're doing this thing. But as
Speaker 1: now a grown ass man, I was thinking about because
Speaker 1: you were the first person I met on the show,
Speaker 1: because we auditioned together. But like you, we all had
Speaker 1: some sort of like foot in the entertainment business prior
Speaker 1: to this in some way, I mean varying degrees of success,
Speaker 1: mostly not success. But you, like we lived in l
Speaker 1: A or New York and you were driving down from
Speaker 1: Clovis like you were very much you're auditioning for things right,
Speaker 1: Like you did have an agent, Like how did how
Speaker 1: did that happen? Like how did you get an agent
Speaker 1: in l A and start like auditioning for things that
Speaker 1: eventually led to Glee. Well, I grew up doing UM
Speaker 1: Community Theater in Fresno slash Clovis, California. I was the
Speaker 1: little boy in every show known to man UM and
Speaker 1: a family friend saw one of the shows that I
Speaker 1: was in, and UM happened to have another friend who
Speaker 1: was an agent down here, and so he put us
Speaker 1: in UH in touch uh and UM. So I started
Speaker 1: auditioning for things when I was a freshman in high school.
Speaker 1: I remember my first audition was for that so raven
Speaker 1: um did not get it. Still still better, but so
Speaker 1: I I auditioned for for four years, um and never
Speaker 1: got anything. I got one call back prior to Glee.
Speaker 1: Glee was was the first thing I booked, and I
Speaker 1: booked it shortly after I graduated high school. Um. So
Speaker 1: God blessed my parents for driving me back and forth
Speaker 1: once a month. Yeah it was a big trip. It's
Speaker 1: like a three and a half hour drive. Um. But
Speaker 1: they just they were very supportive of me, and they
Speaker 1: knew that there was nothing else I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Um and um, I didn't really have like a you know,
Speaker 1: a raging social life, so they were probably glad I
Speaker 1: was getting out of the house in some form. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so yeah, so Glee was the first thing
Speaker 1: I ever got, so um yeah it was. It was
Speaker 1: crazy because um, being so young and having no professional
Speaker 1: experience whatsoever. Was it was. It was crazy to be
Speaker 1: thrown into that that uh situation with all of you
Speaker 1: guys who who you know you you know, you guys
Speaker 1: were stars to me. I mean I mean we were.
Speaker 1: And it was a spring awakening, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I was. I was. I was fan girling constantly. Um.
Speaker 1: But it was. Yeah. And then also just like moving
Speaker 1: from clubs to l a so young, um by myself
Speaker 1: because I was not going to let my parents move
Speaker 1: move with me. That did you guys talk about them
Speaker 1: moving with you? We talked about it. You told them.
Speaker 1: I told them, this is not happening. Because I also
Speaker 1: didn't want people to think that I had stage parents. Um.
Speaker 1: And I also, you know, I was eighteen. I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to be with my friends, and I had
Speaker 1: all that that teenagings just so young though, But like
Speaker 1: we spent every day together probably that whole pilot because
Speaker 1: we were the ones that came from out of town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're staying at the Plazza and we basically lived at
Speaker 1: the Grove. Yeah. Yeah. I went to movies like every night,
Speaker 1: and literally we went to Disneyland with Lily at one time.
Speaker 1: That was fun, right, we did. We spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time with the cheesecake factory. Oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: a factory, to be fair. But Chris, did you always
Speaker 1: want to be just an actor or like was like
Speaker 1: the writing and all of this other amazing things that
Speaker 1: you've done, like kind of in in the um in
Speaker 1: the ether for you as well, or did that come later.
Speaker 1: It all hit me at the same time when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, because writing and acting were the same
Speaker 1: thing to me, because there are just two different forms
Speaker 1: of playing pretend essentially. Um. It was until I got
Speaker 1: until later, when I was like, I want to say,
Speaker 1: seven or eight, that I started realizing, Oh, like, these
Speaker 1: are two very different things, Like you know there's something, Oh,
Speaker 1: there's something called a script, Like the actors aren't just
Speaker 1: making things up in there, you know, on camera on stage. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I know, so I've I've always wanted to
Speaker 1: do both. Wow. I love that you had that realization
Speaker 1: at seven or eight and cut to me at like fifteen,
Speaker 1: realizing like, oh, that's a job people do, Like, oh
Speaker 1: maybe I should try that. Yeah, You've always have been
Speaker 1: more advanced than me. Chris wrote a pilot for Kurt.
Speaker 1: He wrote his own spin off, and the four of
Speaker 1: us would take like Me, Amber, Kevin, and Chris would
Speaker 1: hang out and Chris send it I think to it
Speaker 1: to us, and you know, just it was I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: like he's he's multi talented. Kids got it all. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I was pretty that script, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I think we read it in your apartment. UM,
Speaker 1: oh my god, hopefully were there. Well, usually when we
Speaker 1: were doing that, like we um were a little under
Speaker 1: the influence of partying. Remember we called him Jack Knights
Speaker 1: because Jenna Amber Chris Kevin, Oh my god, night little
Speaker 1: did Chris no coming up that elevator at Fox that
Speaker 1: he would be stuck with me for forever? I know?
Speaker 1: Did you both audition for Reggie? We had the same side.
Speaker 1: So the thing is we came up. I had made
Speaker 1: a like an effort prely auditioning too. I had to
Speaker 1: talk with myself like let me be just nice to everyone.
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is a competition, like even
Speaker 1: for the same role, Like everyone just trying to get
Speaker 1: a job. It's hard. And this was the first audition
Speaker 1: after my trying to exercise that nice auditioning thing. And
Speaker 1: we get up in the elevator. It's Chris and I
Speaker 1: and we check in and I helped Chris, not that
Speaker 1: you need to help checking in, but like it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's here too for the same thing. And so then
Speaker 1: we go up another elevator together and like we're talking,
Speaker 1: we're nervous, we're nice to each other. And then I
Speaker 1: looked down at his sides and I see the exact
Speaker 1: same we had already in regis sides to form like
Speaker 1: one audition, and I was like, You've got to be
Speaker 1: kidding me. I'm like, I've just been nice to this
Speaker 1: kid for a kid I'm like a year and a
Speaker 1: half older than him, and and I'm like yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like can you And We're sitting there, like outside
Speaker 1: the audition room, and I'm just like, keep it together,
Speaker 1: be nice to him. He's very nice, like there's no
Speaker 1: reason to not. And then you like, um, Robert or
Speaker 1: the casting director comes up and starts talking to you
Speaker 1: about some person named Kurt, and I'm just like a
Speaker 1: care and I'm like what is happening? And I was
Speaker 1: like trying to put together these pieces and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to be overly nosi, so I wasn't trying to
Speaker 1: ask Chris to any director. I mean real, You're like,
Speaker 1: what's happening back there? Well? Yeah, I was like what's
Speaker 1: going on? But I was like, in one breath, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, so he's not auditioning for Artie. Oh
Speaker 1: this is great. We can be friends. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: also wait a second, the Regis is out and you're in, like,
Speaker 1: why are you nervous? You know? Which would which would
Speaker 1: not fly today? Let me tell you. Yeah, now a
Speaker 1: lot of things wouldn't fly today, Chris. Yeah. Then them
Speaker 1: getting rid of a rid of a character of color
Speaker 1: to put to put my pasty acid that would not
Speaker 1: fly at all. Several casting things would not have flown.
Speaker 1: Both of you would have been would have been out.
Speaker 1: It would have just been me standing. Yeah, I was progressive. Okay. Anyway, Um,
Speaker 1: you know we hung out a lot before of us,
Speaker 1: which was really really fun. Did you kind of fly back?
Speaker 1: Oh no, you didn't, so, Jenny, you flew back to
Speaker 1: New York. And Chris, when you found out you got
Speaker 1: the part, did you just drive back to Clovis? Were
Speaker 1: you driving back to Clovis? We were driving to my
Speaker 1: aunt's house who she lived in Santa Barbara. Um. So
Speaker 1: we were in the car on the way after I
Speaker 1: think it's right after our final audition, um, either the
Speaker 1: studio or the network auditions. UM. And we got the
Speaker 1: call and oh my god, I remember my mom and
Speaker 1: I just my mom had to pull over. We were screaming.
Speaker 1: So it was just like he was. It was finally
Speaker 1: and so it was so strange too, because that moment,
Speaker 1: like I was, I knew it was a pilot. I
Speaker 1: knew there was a chance that it wasn't going to go,
Speaker 1: but but I just I think, just like my gut
Speaker 1: was like, this is it, this is gonna be this,
Speaker 1: this is happening. Um. And then I never really thought
Speaker 1: twice about it ever, not getting picked up app really
Speaker 1: I did the same thing. I It was when we
Speaker 1: all watched thee at Leah's house. She like secretly was
Speaker 1: that secretly she was supposed to be showing us or something,
Speaker 1: and she had gotten that she had a yeah, And
Speaker 1: I remember us than having a debate whether or not
Speaker 1: we thought people would like it, And I remember that
Speaker 1: was the first time that I had sort of approached
Speaker 1: that question at all, because I was like, we had
Speaker 1: a great time doing this. I like this show so sure.
Speaker 1: I just didn't think that it was an option for
Speaker 1: people not to also feel the same way we felt
Speaker 1: about it. Then the very reality of that being an
Speaker 1: option hadn't crossed my mind. It's like, oh no, I
Speaker 1: don't want this like Summer Camp to end. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: remember thinking like there it was a show about kids
Speaker 1: just like me, and like thinking how much of an audience.
Speaker 1: I think people were like, you know, we're worried if
Speaker 1: it would have an audience or not. And I always
Speaker 1: secretly saying myself, like, of course there's an audience, Like
Speaker 1: every theater kid in the world is going to love
Speaker 1: this show for sure. For sure, Christy, did you I
Speaker 1: mean we can get into like closer to like preggers
Speaker 1: when when that episode came out, But like in the pilot, um,
Speaker 1: what were you what were you thinking was anything like
Speaker 1: going through your head in terms of playing, um, a
Speaker 1: gay character when you were not out to the world. So, uh,
Speaker 1: my hometown has has come very far, um in the
Speaker 1: last couple of decades. But when I was growing up there,
Speaker 1: it was dangerous to be out. Um. Kids would get
Speaker 1: beat up. On one occasion, someone got stabbed and on
Speaker 1: their way to school. Um. So uh, being out and
Speaker 1: proud was just it was not an option. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so when I found out that they had written to
Speaker 1: this character for me, I was I was thrilled, and
Speaker 1: then anyone I finally got the script is when I
Speaker 1: realized it was the gay character, and I was terrified. Um.
Speaker 1: And I had a family member actually um, not not
Speaker 1: my parents of course, but I had a family actually
Speaker 1: asked me, are you going to do this? Like what?
Speaker 1: You can't do this? Like you you can't play a
Speaker 1: gay character like That's that would that would like like
Speaker 1: that that would ruin your life essentially. Um and so,
Speaker 1: but I I just wanted to get out and you know,
Speaker 1: be part of the industry so badly. I I just
Speaker 1: I knew, I I knew there was no there was
Speaker 1: no option, um but um um And I also I
Speaker 1: also I also knew that it would probably force me
Speaker 1: to answer and ask questions that myself that I wasn't
Speaker 1: quite ready to do. So um uh. And I'm just
Speaker 1: actually kind of grateful for it in a way because
Speaker 1: I think it kind of pushed me into to a
Speaker 1: path of honesty with myself. Um. But um yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was absolutely terrified. And um
Speaker 1: you know, back then it was like people told told
Speaker 1: their clients, don't don't play characters because it'll ruin your career.
Speaker 1: But again, I have been auditioning for so long and
Speaker 1: never gotten anything that I did. There was no option
Speaker 1: for me. I had to do it. As scary as
Speaker 1: it was, did it feel like some sort of I
Speaker 1: don't know, judgment on you that this character that you
Speaker 1: knew they had written for you was gay and you
Speaker 1: were not necessarily there with yourself yet like oh absolutely,
Speaker 1: Like oh and I do I come off like I'm
Speaker 1: like they just know already. Haven't talked to them about
Speaker 1: this at all. Yeah, they they just assumed and they
Speaker 1: were right. They're all like, I mean, I've always always
Speaker 1: been very um well, I was much more feminate back then. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, life is hard in me. Um, but um,
Speaker 1: I started I started that show as Kimmy Schmidt. Now
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm friend leewoods. Uh. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: was and and it was, um, I mean it was.
Speaker 1: I mean I was called a fag at every single
Speaker 1: day in high school, um, every single day, like like
Speaker 1: like it was. I couldn't hide it, you know. I
Speaker 1: just I just wasn't ready to have that conversation with
Speaker 1: myself for anyone I knew yet. Um. And so so
Speaker 1: yeah I did it. Did It did kind of feel
Speaker 1: like a judgment. It could kind of feel like, um,
Speaker 1: I don't it's it's it's so weird because it's like
Speaker 1: it's like the world has come so far and I've
Speaker 1: come so far. It's it's so hard to go back
Speaker 1: and remember exactly how I felt in that moment. But
Speaker 1: I think it was just I was just so happy
Speaker 1: to finally get a job and and have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to do what I wanted to do. I believe that's
Speaker 1: really all I was really focused on at that age.
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, whatever they want me to do, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to do it. Yeah. Yeah, I like me
Speaker 1: have to hire me in the first place. Yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you remember when we say, like, oh, do it for free? Yeah? Yeah, literally,
Speaker 1: like we were to get hired. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Like no, we had the best time. I mean we
Speaker 1: were having like the best time in the world in
Speaker 1: those beginning times. Like that was such a special um
Speaker 1: a couple of like years of like you know, our
Speaker 1: our lives. But I remember you so vividly in that time,
Speaker 1: like so like you were so excited that I was
Speaker 1: part of Spring Awakening, and it kind of like gave
Speaker 1: me a different look outlook on like what I was
Speaker 1: doing and Broadway at the time too, because I had
Speaker 1: just been so wrapped up in Broadway too with Leah.
Speaker 1: But like you came in from you know, this small town,
Speaker 1: like oh my god, she's been on Broadway and that
Speaker 1: was really cool for me. Um. But also it's just
Speaker 1: like this sweet, sweet young boy who like is going
Speaker 1: to be thrust into the the arms of some crazy
Speaker 1: old grandma. That's kind of rap your eyes out and know,
Speaker 1: I just you know, and I felt protective of you
Speaker 1: in many ways just because of that. And I think
Speaker 1: we all did something. Yeah, I was. I was definitely
Speaker 1: the baby brother of the group for sure. When did
Speaker 1: we all start hanging out like that, like when we
Speaker 1: would go to each other's houses. Was that when we
Speaker 1: came back to do Showmance, Yes, because I moved into
Speaker 1: the park Libreya y scary elevator that used to drop
Speaker 1: like five I just remember every the first image that
Speaker 1: comes to my mind. We talked about the places Amber
Speaker 1: leaning outside of the window cigarette and I was like,
Speaker 1: she can't smoke a cigarette her voice and she's like yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's like it's fine, and it's like if the
Speaker 1: wind were so high up and I was like, these
Speaker 1: guys are crazy, jenuine we need to spring awakening. Because
Speaker 1: this was the first like moment. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: the first show I've ever been on like this, and
Speaker 1: it was the first moment I had ever been part
Speaker 1: of a cast, and so that was that was this,
Speaker 1: how this happened was all I knew that we were
Speaker 1: all bonding, we were all it was just like we
Speaker 1: were friends. There was no job involved. It was Spring
Speaker 1: Awakening like that, Like were you used to this or
Speaker 1: was this even more intense because you had to move somewhere?
Speaker 1: And it was more intense because I had to move somewhere.
Speaker 1: And I think that's like Chris and I really clung
Speaker 1: to each other and we drive to work every day
Speaker 1: together just because like you know, they're everybody else had
Speaker 1: their own lives going on outside of Glee, but like
Speaker 1: we moved into l A, and l A was Glee
Speaker 1: for us so um. But but being in Spring Awakening
Speaker 1: because the casts were so young, like you were very
Speaker 1: close and there was lots of you know, Drew drama
Speaker 1: and lots of like you know, I don't know, interloping,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, but like we were
Speaker 1: just you know, it was very intertwined. But this was
Speaker 1: even more um just because the sheer size of what
Speaker 1: it was. And then also like living in our bubble
Speaker 1: of like um because I wasn't a part of the
Speaker 1: original cast spring making either, So I didn't experience that like, um,
Speaker 1: intense pressure and all the press and all the things
Speaker 1: that they were doing. Um, I kind of came afterwards.
Speaker 1: So you got it on this one though. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were all such a tight unit, as we keep saying.
Speaker 1: But did you have that in high school or is
Speaker 1: this like your core group of friends like this and
Speaker 1: then you leave and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: have another core group of friends or was this sort
Speaker 1: of this was our college so it was this sort
Speaker 1: of like the first time that we were I don't
Speaker 1: know if we you want to say this, but like
Speaker 1: drinking and partying and hanging out with one another being young. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: no I UMU was such a goodie two shoes. I
Speaker 1: never um, I never went to those parties. I also
Speaker 1: was never invited. Um they didn't know they were missing. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: they didn't want my European History Fund facts. Um we
Speaker 1: did you guys? Did you guys? Did um? I? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, I actually I really did not have a
Speaker 1: core group of friends when I was growing up. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit when I was when I was
Speaker 1: younger and I was doing like the shows in community theater,
Speaker 1: but but not not in high school for sure, definitely not. Um.
Speaker 1: I would like I would spend I would eat lunch
Speaker 1: with the lunch ladies because I thought they were they
Speaker 1: were great. Um. And I was very close with the teachers, um,
Speaker 1: and would spend you know, breaks and lunches in their
Speaker 1: classrooms and stuff. But I know, you guys are really
Speaker 1: my first my first core group of friends or my
Speaker 1: own age. Sorry. Yeah, just like and that that that
Speaker 1: explains a lot about me. The imprint we made, the
Speaker 1: residual trauma. Right, um, let's let's talk about um night terror. Sorry,
Speaker 1: that's also learning about Chris's night terrors. Wake up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I still do that? Do you really not to laugh
Speaker 1: at it? I just had. We were like, we don't
Speaker 1: have sleepovers every weekend all the time, and I just
Speaker 1: remember Chris waking up screaming and I and I woke
Speaker 1: up like, oh my god, is he okay? And it
Speaker 1: happened every time, and then I started to get used
Speaker 1: to it. But it's like, you're okay, okay, it's just
Speaker 1: the yeager, don't worry. Oh I got a blushing so hard.
Speaker 1: Oh it's so funny. Oh. We also do you remember,
Speaker 1: like during that time, you and I started to talk
Speaker 1: on aim I am for us elderly people. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And that was also like such a good way back
Speaker 1: then too. I think, like being a young gay kid,
Speaker 1: like chat rooms were a big thing to like find people,
Speaker 1: and no one would no one knows you. It's fine.
Speaker 1: The kids at school aren't going to find out, hopefully,
Speaker 1: And you and I sort of confided in each other.
Speaker 1: I don't know how early that happened either, but I
Speaker 1: remember pretty early. It was pretty early. I remember in
Speaker 1: my first apartment, um, we didn't have a washer dryer,
Speaker 1: and oh my god, I was going to bring that
Speaker 1: up earlier. Oh my god. Chris and I were an
Speaker 1: apartment hunting um together, right, We were looking for apartments
Speaker 1: and Chris, Chris is like one non negotiable was a
Speaker 1: washer and dryer inside the apartment, which I respect, in
Speaker 1: the unit I respect. I'd be like, Chris, but what
Speaker 1: about this one? This location is so good to be
Speaker 1: like this, why you're trying? But how I was like
Speaker 1: at the time, like the idea of like a laundry
Speaker 1: Matt was just like the scariest thing. Oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's still scarest me. You're from suburbia like you gotta
Speaker 1: have that washing entire suburbia. Yeah. I had only learned
Speaker 1: the year before, so I I am with you. I
Speaker 1: also my first job was at a dry cleaner, so
Speaker 1: that that, yeah, that had something to do with it too,
Speaker 1: makes sense. And sorry, I we digress. What were we
Speaker 1: talking about? Um? Oh? Yeah, I started talking? Yeah? Did
Speaker 1: you did you know? You both knew that you guys
Speaker 1: were gay, but you didn't like Chris was more out.
Speaker 1: I don't think the show, but like Kevin was a
Speaker 1: little bit later than than that, well outside of our
Speaker 1: core group, yes, but like us, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know if you named it. It wasn't like we were
Speaker 1: like you gay, you gay. It wasn't that. It was
Speaker 1: just like an understanding. Oh. It was just like talking
Speaker 1: about oh yeah, I I I think I like boys,
Speaker 1: or I've hooked up with a guy before, and just
Speaker 1: sort of like the exchange of information of our experience levels.
Speaker 1: It was. It was yeah. And also I felt like
Speaker 1: because I had one of my best friends in high school,
Speaker 1: she and I sort of like came out to each
Speaker 1: other senior year, and so I had at least one
Speaker 1: person I could tell everything too in that way, which
Speaker 1: was like a huge relief, like a huge asset. And
Speaker 1: I just remember, like you, I'm like, I if he
Speaker 1: wants to talk about talk about this, if he is
Speaker 1: gay or maybe he's not. I just wanted to put
Speaker 1: myself out there in a way that you knew because
Speaker 1: it was scary to tell people. And I came from
Speaker 1: a world and I was like, I'm never telling anyone ever,
Speaker 1: Like that's just not gonna happen. And but I was like,
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to have some sort of
Speaker 1: like trust within each other, and if he needs to
Speaker 1: talk to somebody, like I would be so happy to
Speaker 1: be the person. But and the four of us got
Speaker 1: together and we were all just whatever. We talked about
Speaker 1: everything well. I mean, I had a crush on Kevin
Speaker 1: earlier on and Chris like found out about it, and
Speaker 1: he put a printed photo of Kevin in my drawer
Speaker 1: and I completely forgot about that and it was a
Speaker 1: printed photo of Kevin and my underwear drawer. I remember that.
Speaker 1: Thank you Chris again again A little brother, little brother.
Speaker 1: Remember when we spent that we had to sleep over
Speaker 1: at your house, Jenna, and I remember you calling me like,
Speaker 1: look at this picture. It's like you were like we're
Speaker 1: giving like tiger faces or something. Anyway. I okay, so
Speaker 1: let's talk about let's I'm curious because this also kind
Speaker 1: of ties into my next question of like Chris, when
Speaker 1: when Pragers was coming out and we were doing single
Speaker 1: Ladies and this was like the real episode that like
Speaker 1: this beautiful episode with you and Michaelmalley, um, where Kurt
Speaker 1: comes out, Like I feel like we were all kind
Speaker 1: of like is he ready for this? Does he? You know,
Speaker 1: like how does he feel? But I don't know that
Speaker 1: we ever like actually asked you that, like what were
Speaker 1: you feeling and like did you feel supported at the time?
Speaker 1: And like could were you prepared? You know? If I'm
Speaker 1: completely honest, there there you guys aside there there really
Speaker 1: wasn't much support for for for um uh young gay
Speaker 1: people back then. Um. I think it's it's it's like
Speaker 1: I think the whole thing with the what's his name?
Speaker 1: From Heartbreakers show that that thing that just happened right now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that absolutely broke my heart because essentially the same thing
Speaker 1: happened to me. Um but in fifteen years ago, and
Speaker 1: were we were the same age immediately when that happened,
Speaker 1: when yeah, and I really wanted to, you know, tweet
Speaker 1: something in support of him. But I asked to just
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like, you know, the old
Speaker 1: guy trying to get attention, you know, trying to take
Speaker 1: someone and be like, oh, I don't know now, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you would have appreciated. It's also such a specific
Speaker 1: thing to experience that you may be one of the
Speaker 1: only other people that can't actually to r and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I I think coming out is I highly recommended.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the best things I've ever done. Um.
Speaker 1: I highly I highly encourage everyone to come out when
Speaker 1: they are ready. UM. But to force someone to come out,
Speaker 1: especially publicly, that you know, unfortunately that when when you
Speaker 1: come out publicly, it does put your career and your
Speaker 1: safety at risk. I wish, I wish that wasn't the case.
Speaker 1: But there's still a lot of homophobia in this world,
Speaker 1: and there's still a lot of homophobia in this industry. Um. Again,
Speaker 1: I I can't emphasize enough how much I I think
Speaker 1: coming out is the best thing you could possibly do
Speaker 1: for yourself, so you get to have that freedom. Uh.
Speaker 1: But UM, for anyone to to push someone into that,
Speaker 1: I think that is just one of the cruelest things
Speaker 1: you could you could possibly do. Um. So, but one
Speaker 1: silver lining that I that I saw from from that
Speaker 1: was how much support. Uh. People were furious that it
Speaker 1: happened to him people, you know, And I think that's
Speaker 1: proof like how far the community, how far the community
Speaker 1: has come, because when it happened to me, it was
Speaker 1: it was very much like I deserved it. It was
Speaker 1: crickets and it was I deserved it. Um, Like you
Speaker 1: know what you signed for, right, I know, it's what
Speaker 1: I signed up for. Um. It was obvious. So therefore
Speaker 1: therefore I had no reason to be upset about it.
Speaker 1: That's a big thing. I think that was. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a huge putting that on you, that it was obvious
Speaker 1: and it was obvious. And the thing is I at
Speaker 1: the time, I like, I wasn't ashamed of it at all.
Speaker 1: I I very much knew that. I just you know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be on a boat before I called
Speaker 1: myself a sailor. You know, I didn't want to label myself.
Speaker 1: I didn't know because I didn't have the experiences to
Speaker 1: know for sure yet. Um. And uh, yeah, so so
Speaker 1: there was there was that there was very little support.
Speaker 1: I would say back then, and that that was that
Speaker 1: made it a very very lonely experience. I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember I was even dirinkly. I would I would get
Speaker 1: you know, I would get called a faggot at auditions,
Speaker 1: um by casting directors and producers and directors and um.
Speaker 1: And like when I would tell people those stories, they
Speaker 1: would they would just say like, well, what do you
Speaker 1: expect You're you're an openly gay actor in Hollywood? What
Speaker 1: do you expect? You know? And now now I feel
Speaker 1: like if if that sort of like that was was
Speaker 1: ever leaked, you know, people would career, people would bring pitchforks.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, it's totally curious. Um so um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so sorry, that's a long, long winded answer. You say
Speaker 1: there wasn't much There wasn't much support back then. I
Speaker 1: feel like I remember too, like and correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. Like you, I feel like there was a
Speaker 1: moment to like the show had been airing, and I
Speaker 1: feel like you went on a talk show or something
Speaker 1: and somebody and I don't remember, like I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was like Chelsea Handler or something where yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and she just like I was like, oh, so you're gay,
Speaker 1: and and I remember after that something felt different or
Speaker 1: something felt weird in the sense of like he hasn't
Speaker 1: said that publicly and like she's taking it based off
Speaker 1: of the character, and no, actually she we we planned that,
Speaker 1: did you like? I I That's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: why I went on her shows because I remember watching
Speaker 1: it and being like scared and concerned. Yeah, because what
Speaker 1: happened was I during the first round of press for
Speaker 1: the first season, UM, I did an interview with UM
Speaker 1: with a with a publication, I'll say a publication, UM
Speaker 1: and uh. They asked me questions that the character about
Speaker 1: the show, not not one same question about me. And
Speaker 1: the article that was published was was it was It
Speaker 1: was basically like you know, oh, you know Chris coover
Speaker 1: this out and proud young kid, and I was and
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like eighteen, and you know,
Speaker 1: I hadn't even had the conversation with my parents or myself,
Speaker 1: you know, So it was it was just terrifying and
Speaker 1: and UM and I was devastated because it was just
Speaker 1: I just I wasn't ready. I was not ready to
Speaker 1: to to go there. And then UM and I was
Speaker 1: I was also afraid that UM, because I was so
Speaker 1: different from my character, Like the more similarities that that
Speaker 1: were presented between me and my character, the less of
Speaker 1: an actor people would think that I was, and that
Speaker 1: that that was also a fear that I had, UM
Speaker 1: and so and so then I did another interview where
Speaker 1: they they flat out asked me and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: I just want to I I think I said, I
Speaker 1: want to keep some mystery, you know. And then people
Speaker 1: were furious with me. Um, like all the blogs they
Speaker 1: were like, well, we you know, how dare you? Like?
Speaker 1: How you know all this all that, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: just awful awful things to say to an eighteen year
Speaker 1: old um for you know not you know. Um, it was,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a awful awful week. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I I told my team, I was like, I
Speaker 1: just want to I would rather read the unicorn than
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room, right, So I I just
Speaker 1: need I need to, I need to clarify it. Um
Speaker 1: and uh and I did and UM it was terrifying,
Speaker 1: but um terrifying and in a bit of a nightmare.
Speaker 1: But then once all the press stuff started dying down
Speaker 1: and I started doing the letters from kids around the
Speaker 1: world and the messages and you know, from kids from Egypt.
Speaker 1: You know that that that that legally could not come out,
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. That's when it was all
Speaker 1: it was all worth it, worth worth it for me, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, it feels like amongst all
Speaker 1: the the things you didn't ask for, um, part of
Speaker 1: it is like I don't know that you could have
Speaker 1: ever projected, like we could have ever seen what kind
Speaker 1: of an icon Kurt and Chris became in the media
Speaker 1: as well as one of the first you know, gay
Speaker 1: men out, and then we see the first gate you
Speaker 1: know kiss and and just all of these things that
Speaker 1: were happening on this massive show that millions of people watching.
Speaker 1: That there was like this massive responsibility thrust upon you
Speaker 1: at eighteen years old, that you had just been brought
Speaker 1: out um again, not against your world, you know, before
Speaker 1: you were ready and then I wasn't right yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then this massive responsibility as well, like did that
Speaker 1: feel like did you feel pressure? Did you feel like
Speaker 1: those letters kind of got you through? Oh? Absolutely? And
Speaker 1: and and there were so many really truly horrifying experiences
Speaker 1: that I that I went through at that time, UM,
Speaker 1: And I never vocalized them because because because of that responsibility.
Speaker 1: I feel like I had a responsibility to be almost
Speaker 1: more of a it sounds so, you know, I was
Speaker 1: very pretentious when I was eighteen, looking back, right right,
Speaker 1: looking back now, I'm like, okay, he was, he needed
Speaker 1: to calm down. Um, but no, I feel like I
Speaker 1: had this responsibility to sort of, um live the fans,
Speaker 1: to be to live the fantasy that the show was creating,
Speaker 1: and and and to only h to only have positivity
Speaker 1: surrounding me so so to other kids and other you know,
Speaker 1: adults even wouldn't be afraid to come out. Um. So
Speaker 1: there was a lot that I internalized at that time.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll do a book about it someday. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you will, Chris, Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: I might also will throw one of those through, one
Speaker 1: of those into the collection to the collection of a
Speaker 1: hundred yeah, uh yeah, yeah, so yeah absolutely. And sometimes
Speaker 1: sometimes the pressure was suffocating. Um. And it was you know,
Speaker 1: getting getting death threats constantly, and then and then having
Speaker 1: to put on a smile and and and and you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I I had I had horrible agoraphobia for
Speaker 1: for a while because I was too afraid to leave
Speaker 1: the house, yeah, um to go with you though somewhere
Speaker 1: like people were also as much they love another level,
Speaker 1: but they were very like when we went in public places,
Speaker 1: the response to us was one thing. The response to
Speaker 1: you was very physical. People people would come on you,
Speaker 1: would grab me you and touch you, and it was
Speaker 1: like you were probably the most introverted like out of
Speaker 1: all of us. And maybe it was because with the responsibility,
Speaker 1: maybe you were just treating yeah where it was I've
Speaker 1: had to explain to a lot of people over the
Speaker 1: years where the response like to your daily life, You're
Speaker 1: going grocery shopping, know, you had to stop because everything
Speaker 1: everywhere you went, you were so recognizable and people had
Speaker 1: such a passionate and strong response to you. It was
Speaker 1: like unlike anything I had ever seen. And I don't
Speaker 1: think it was like a switch. I remember we went
Speaker 1: to Disneyland or something like that, all of a sudden
Speaker 1: people were treating you very differently. And maybe it was
Speaker 1: after preggers where there was this new sense of ownership
Speaker 1: over you, but no one knew you, and it was like, well,
Speaker 1: this is our friend, like back off, yeah, yeah, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess you're so sweet. Thank you, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for saying all that it makes me feel so
Speaker 1: you guys are so sweet for saying all these But yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember we were in Australia when um we're in
Speaker 1: Australia when Preggers aired, and I remember I remember leaving
Speaker 1: for Australia, like when we came back life life was
Speaker 1: we got off that. Yeah, we got off that plane
Speaker 1: and then it was I think for like a lot
Speaker 1: of us, because it was like the second or third
Speaker 1: episode that you know I started airing and the audience
Speaker 1: started building and building, and yeah, I remember that was
Speaker 1: just strange. It's like we went to a different world
Speaker 1: when we came back to a different world. Yes, we
Speaker 1: went to our first gate club. Sorry, oh my god,
Speaker 1: we know, I climbed the spider whip and they announced
Speaker 1: that you guys were there, right. That was in Arizona.
Speaker 1: But we were in Australia and it was our last
Speaker 1: night and we were going out and like Chris and
Speaker 1: I were the last two remaining, and we each had
Speaker 1: like a boy we were sort of like interested in.
Speaker 1: And then our boys went home together. We got to
Speaker 1: the class. So then we then Kevin I went back
Speaker 1: to the hotel. They're our jails I'm like, what do
Speaker 1: we do? What we do was because I climbed the
Speaker 1: spiderwhib speaking of because the two of you guys had
Speaker 1: like this little kind of knowing relationship. Um, we were curious, Chris,
Speaker 1: like because Kevin didn't have to come out because he
Speaker 1: wasn't outed, because people didn't really assume um because already
Speaker 1: wasn't Like what did that? Did you feel angry at all,
Speaker 1: like at that or resemble at all? Oh? Absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: if if I'm being completely honest, absolutely, I mean more
Speaker 1: so more sort just towards the situation, not not not
Speaker 1: you personally, Kevin, but which was like the yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you deserved it to um, but no, because
Speaker 1: I at the time, I feel like like the people
Speaker 1: listening to have a drinking game every time I say,
Speaker 1: at the time, take a shot. But at the time
Speaker 1: they were sort of like this like underground gay world
Speaker 1: in the industry, UM that I just didn't get to
Speaker 1: participate in. UM like yeah yeah. And I feel like
Speaker 1: Kevin like got to see people, got to date people
Speaker 1: who were also closeted, where like I would go somewhere
Speaker 1: and like I would be pulled out of photos by
Speaker 1: publicists and agents because they did not want their clients
Speaker 1: taking a photo with me because they did not want
Speaker 1: like us to start and so so it that that
Speaker 1: was really that was way tough. But um, I mean,
Speaker 1: I like, I didn't I didn't go on my first
Speaker 1: date until I was twenty um um. And I remember
Speaker 1: actually I missed the Grammys to go on my first date.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah. I got asked out and he was like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing Sunday? And I opened my calendar,
Speaker 1: said Grammys and I said nothing, I'm free. But because
Speaker 1: I was just so desperate, Yeah, what's another award show? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we weren't. We didn't win anyway, we didn't win anyway,
Speaker 1: and and Cord got to go in my place and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's that's that's good, you know.
Speaker 1: So um uh so yeah that was that. That really
Speaker 1: was just it's just why I mean, it's I think
Speaker 1: it's way different now. Um. I remember that too, because
Speaker 1: I remember because we were so close and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden when all that stuff started happening to you,
Speaker 1: everything you just explained, which I didn't know as in
Speaker 1: depth then where it was sort of like the first
Speaker 1: little riff or riff or like distance I felt out
Speaker 1: of any of us, and I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I hope he's not mad at me. I
Speaker 1: don't know what I did. And I remember talking into
Speaker 1: Amber and pulling her aside, and she explained it to me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, well that makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense. And I was like, say something. She's like,
Speaker 1: just give him time, Just give him like he's going
Speaker 1: through a lot. And I was so thankful that she
Speaker 1: was just so honest and open because we were like that,
Speaker 1: and I I didn't want anything to get in between us,
Speaker 1: like our core friendship, because at that like that was
Speaker 1: the most important thing to me that was coming out
Speaker 1: of this show or in the experience. And so I
Speaker 1: do remember um sort of like walking on eggshells around
Speaker 1: you for like a couple of months, but your life
Speaker 1: had completely been upended and mine was relatively the exact same,
Speaker 1: and so I think I knew that I needed to
Speaker 1: just give you space because I was representative of the
Speaker 1: thing you were not able to have a different sort
Speaker 1: of way of living at that moment. But I also
Speaker 1: envied you in a lot of ways because I I
Speaker 1: didn't know how or if I ever would do that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, at least he's sort of
Speaker 1: like you said, it's pushed you to have to reconcile
Speaker 1: with yourself and reconcile with what that um meant maybe
Speaker 1: publicly going forward, and so there was a part of me.
Speaker 1: But I think honestly, once I saw all this ship
Speaker 1: you had to go through, I was like, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna step that back down. No one's going to know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks like a picnic and Chernobyl. Yeah, so the
Speaker 1: only time I will make out with someone is halfway
Speaker 1: around the world in Australia. Yep. That's oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I was and I there was a point where Kevin
Speaker 1: even knew, like there was something about it that I
Speaker 1: was like, is he ever going to come out? And
Speaker 1: you're like, and somebody said, he doesn't have to announce it,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to you. You're like, you're totally right.
Speaker 1: We just live in this media bubble where like everything
Speaker 1: has to be announced and you know, presented in some way.
Speaker 1: But it was more like, I just wanted you to
Speaker 1: be honest with yourself enough to be open with other people,
Speaker 1: and and that came with time obviously, But you know,
Speaker 1: we're all just so involved with each other's lives at
Speaker 1: that point that you're like constantly thinking about all that.
Speaker 1: There was also some pushback or at the top some
Speaker 1: of the executives um that worked on our show. I
Speaker 1: won't name names, but there were there was There were
Speaker 1: like two schools of thought. One person was very much
Speaker 1: what are you doing? You need to come out, because
Speaker 1: at some point, I think at the end of the
Speaker 1: first season, we were all like at upfronts or something,
Speaker 1: and I drunkenly came out to everyone and one of
Speaker 1: them was very would give me ship regularly afterwards, like
Speaker 1: you you need to come out. This is like you
Speaker 1: can't live like this, this is a lie. And I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm fine, I'm sort of um. And then that
Speaker 1: he was just like, well, yeah, we're taught to sort
Speaker 1: of fetishize the secret nous of it all. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, let me try to wrap my
Speaker 1: head around that. And then there was also somebody else
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you can never come out, you need
Speaker 1: to do that, don't ever do it. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so I was very much battling those two camps the
Speaker 1: whole time as well, and I was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna ignore it and pretend nothing's happening. Did you have
Speaker 1: anyone say anything to you Chris, Like, oh yeah, I had.
Speaker 1: I had many people tell me tell me, um, uh,
Speaker 1: never never say it. Just just be a mystery. And
Speaker 1: I never say it even even even if people know,
Speaker 1: just just you know, you're you're. You're more likely to
Speaker 1: get casts and things if you don't say it than
Speaker 1: if you do. Um, you're you know. Um. I had
Speaker 1: someone say, um, you need you need, you need to
Speaker 1: have a fake girlfriend, find a fake girlfriend, which okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: people were going to believe that, um general my fat girlfriend.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I remember, Yeah, that was Those are fun though,
Speaker 1: those those are kind of those are fun days. Um,
Speaker 1: my past with gay men, it's you invented being gay.
Speaker 1: You supported the community. Jendaye, I am a gay man. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's true. Let's talk aboutly for a second. Um, like
Speaker 1: Curtain Burt became such this iconic duo. Um, what was
Speaker 1: it like working with Mike and was he like what
Speaker 1: was he like for you? And in terms of like
Speaker 1: support for like on set and all of that, and
Speaker 1: can you talk about a dream A wonderful absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1: I loved love working with him loved every single thing
Speaker 1: we did. Um. I think I think that is. I
Speaker 1: think that relationship is. Um. You know, the curtain blame
Speaker 1: thing took off pretty became pretty big, but um, I
Speaker 1: always think the curtain Burt thing was a little more
Speaker 1: um yeah important. Um And like, UM, I would be
Speaker 1: you know a few times I would go to the
Speaker 1: grocery store, like I have grown straight men walk up
Speaker 1: to me in tears and tell me how much it
Speaker 1: meant to them, you know, because it was like they
Speaker 1: put themselves in that situation. They asked themselves, would I
Speaker 1: support my child if you know, if they were if
Speaker 1: they were gay. Um. So, so yeah, that was I think,
Speaker 1: I think and I think it was. I think I do.
Speaker 1: I think it was. Um, one of the best parts
Speaker 1: of the show. It was, was that relationship great. I
Speaker 1: think it was the heart of like that was sort
Speaker 1: of the foundation of There was a singing in the
Speaker 1: comedy and high school relationships, but that was the most
Speaker 1: I think thought through and make meaningful relationship in the
Speaker 1: entire series. Yeah. And I remember when I got that script,
Speaker 1: when I got Greggors and I read, you know at
Speaker 1: the very end, um that the dad accepts him. I
Speaker 1: was furious. I was like, no, this is supposed to
Speaker 1: be Miami moment, Like, this is supposed to be the
Speaker 1: you know when I get to cry and scream and
Speaker 1: get kicked out, and I was like, what are they doing?
Speaker 1: What's wrong with them? You got to cry? Other times
Speaker 1: I cried. You were so good at it. It gave
Speaker 1: me a confixt you know it. I'm sure that comes
Speaker 1: with me at the Night Terrors too. It's a those
Speaker 1: were pretty um those scenes within though too and Curtain
Speaker 1: like so powerful, so good, yeah, really really good. When
Speaker 1: I feel like those like those scenes took with with
Speaker 1: Burton and Finn, like they were so real, they were
Speaker 1: so authentic, and and I kind of made me almost
Speaker 1: resent the stuff with Curtain Blaine, because it was kind
Speaker 1: of all fairy tale, you know, it was all like fantasy.
Speaker 1: It was all like you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, young gay people go through quite a lot
Speaker 1: in high school, you know, finding a soul mate, uh at,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen probably isn't experienced many people can resonate with.
Speaker 1: So um. I really missed all that that stuff, the
Speaker 1: more authentic stuff. That's really interesting that that makes like
Speaker 1: a lot of sense when when you say it now,
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, you're right, Like what,
Speaker 1: we didn't get to work with you and Blaine like
Speaker 1: a whole ton, or like you and Darren like a ton.
Speaker 1: We were around you guys, but like you know, you're
Speaker 1: you're big numbers, and things were kind of off on.
Speaker 1: We were not in the story on their own, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish I were in the story Lane, but but
Speaker 1: they but you guys did have like the proposal and
Speaker 1: the things. It was always so massive and maybe that
Speaker 1: was just in like in Ryan's mind, like what he
Speaker 1: wished he had her, you know what I mean, just
Speaker 1: like large kind of bigger than life stories. But that
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Well, it's like they're both
Speaker 1: fulfilling like different fantasies. Yes, having the dad that you
Speaker 1: want to have and then having the great love in
Speaker 1: high school. I guess you never get yeah yeah, because
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, how many books have you I'm honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm just floored by it, I really am. I'm just
Speaker 1: I've knew, always known you were a writer to be
Speaker 1: a bestseller, to write and whenever we text Chris or like,
Speaker 1: we'll be like, hey, we're doing this and he's like
Speaker 1: I'm writing and you're like, Okay, bye, see you in
Speaker 1: a moment. Yeah. But I'm like when he's like out
Speaker 1: of his writing cave because then like I'll see him
Speaker 1: out on the town. Yeah. But it was like we're
Speaker 1: going to see him every weekend. Yeah, it's the Land
Speaker 1: of Stories. Though. Congrats it's ten years, right, ten years.
Speaker 1: How many books have you written now? I am. I'm
Speaker 1: currently writing book number nineteen. Oh my insanee. Oh god,
Speaker 1: that's absolutely insane. You're a maniac. I love it. I
Speaker 1: also wrote a movie in like years three two or
Speaker 1: three of Glee. Yes, yes, like Lightning. Remember when you're writing,
Speaker 1: when you're writing the first book and you were just
Speaker 1: like we were all there talking ship, talking about things
Speaker 1: that does not matter, and you're like when when did
Speaker 1: those stories come to you? And when did you decide
Speaker 1: you were going to write them. I just want to
Speaker 1: talk about it for a second because it deserves so.
Speaker 1: The main characters, Alex and Connor, have have been my
Speaker 1: imaginary best friends since I was as for as long
Speaker 1: as I can remember. My mom used to read me
Speaker 1: fairy Tale before I would go to bed that night,
Speaker 1: and I would always have these crazy questions about the
Speaker 1: characters and the kingdoms and the motives and whatnot. And
Speaker 1: she got so tired of answering these questions for me.
Speaker 1: One night she said, Christopher, you're so if you're so inquisitive,
Speaker 1: why don't you just write your own down fairy tale?
Speaker 1: Um and so I started and um, and it was
Speaker 1: really wonderful because, um, my sister got very very sick.
Speaker 1: But when when I was young, UM, and so I
Speaker 1: used the Land of Stories as as an escape whenever,
Speaker 1: like she would, you know, have a grandma seizure or
Speaker 1: you know, an epileptic fit or or something, I would
Speaker 1: just I would just get up my pad paper and
Speaker 1: start drawing pictures of the Land of Stories or start
Speaker 1: writing you a little stories about land stories. So it really, really,
Speaker 1: uh was a very very therapeutic tool. And then years later,
Speaker 1: going back to what we were just talking to talk
Speaker 1: about earlier, when all that stuff was happening, UM, and
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I had all the pressure about
Speaker 1: being out and whatnot, I suddenly like found myself thinking
Speaker 1: about land stories again and again. And so it's really
Speaker 1: land Stories has always saved me twice um in my life. UM.
Speaker 1: And then um, everyone wanted me to do an autobiography,
Speaker 1: and I was like, absolutely not, I'm nineteen, that is
Speaker 1: horrible idea. Um. So I was like, what I'd love
Speaker 1: to do a children's book, and and so luckily I
Speaker 1: found the right right publisher. Wow. Wow, that's I've been
Speaker 1: working with them ever since. Yeah, broke amazing, Yeah, exactly amazing. Um. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just blown away. Its book nineteen and really,
Speaker 1: how many have been published? How many you're out? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just like shocked at like how I've known you
Speaker 1: for this long and I don't even I can barely
Speaker 1: get my shoes on in the morning. And he's written
Speaker 1: nineteen books. Oh I do a bare Okay, good, Okay,
Speaker 1: that makes yourself. You've made a human. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: You've made a human with your body. Fair enough, fair enough,
Speaker 1: fair enough. I have nothing to show, only two fine months. No,
Speaker 1: that's it. She'll take care of you when you're older.
Speaker 1: These books aren't gonna do ship for me. I don't
Speaker 1: know the check. Yeah, do you have any Glee favorites?
Speaker 1: Favorite song do you have? Do you have a favorite
Speaker 1: song that we did? Um? Or I'm more just in
Speaker 1: what you hated the most? What I hate? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: what what was your least favorite song to do? Least favorite? Um?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I think Umbrella was rough. Oh that
Speaker 1: was just the water And I was really upset at that,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and we're all just like ruining. Um,
Speaker 1: I think, um whatever that number we did? And oh no,
Speaker 1: I hated Ben when I had been Michael Jackson episode
Speaker 1: cut didn't it? God? I hope so maybe didn't. I
Speaker 1: was like, of all the songs in his catalog, this
Speaker 1: is the one, this is the one that I and
Speaker 1: I had to sing to my my my lover who
Speaker 1: was in a hospital. Bit like top I can't it
Speaker 1: was it was about a rat. I mean, I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta say Turkey Lurkey really is up. Oh that
Speaker 1: made me so angry. I had worked for years to
Speaker 1: get a Scissor Sister song on that show, and then
Speaker 1: they matched up with so you're the one that's been
Speaker 1: sending Ryan hate mail for that song. There's like there's
Speaker 1: like uproar about about when that member. Hands are just
Speaker 1: really upset about that. That it was And then I
Speaker 1: had to go back because because because the Scissor Sisters
Speaker 1: were my friends, Jake and On and I had to
Speaker 1: go back and apologize because I was just I was devastated. Um,
Speaker 1: I think I think I think the worst one of
Speaker 1: all time was was Thriller? Right? That was? That was
Speaker 1: the Everyone hates that one the most. It It took
Speaker 1: a month to shoot because we kept they kept canceling
Speaker 1: the night shoot. It was the worst to shoot. It was.
Speaker 1: And I mean, while I wasn't even and I was
Speaker 1: warm in my trailer watching the parent traffic Roman Dott
Speaker 1: shut up. Really I wasn't. I wasn't because Mike Kurt
Speaker 1: wasn't at McKinley at that time. I was. I was
Speaker 1: see what happens when you suggest songs? A lot of
Speaker 1: times it backfired because it didn't happen the way you
Speaker 1: wanted it to. That's right. I was so desperate from
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson and then three hours of prosthetic makeup and
Speaker 1: bronchitis and the flu, yeah, pneumonia and yeaheen degrees like,
Speaker 1: oh never mind, I take it back. We're recapping UM
Speaker 1: Showmance soon and um we got that's a great episode.
Speaker 1: It's an excellent episode. I think it's better than the pilot.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, eight doesen. I watched it last time. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, but push it. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was laughing, and I was like, this still laps.
Speaker 1: This is really funny. It's really really funny. We all go,
Speaker 1: We all really got into it, and we as the
Speaker 1: things we had to do to each other in that number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did. We got close real quick. Wasn't there like
Speaker 1: didn't we have to learn like five different versions of it?
Speaker 1: That was really I thought that was don't stop. There
Speaker 1: were stop. There were five different versions and push it.
Speaker 1: There were varying degrees of like sluttiness right right right right,
Speaker 1: and they kept it all. We did the most extreme version.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when we showed We had to rehearse
Speaker 1: it for the crew that morning, Like we had been
Speaker 1: sitting with this number for like three or four weeks,
Speaker 1: and then we get in there and I just remember
Speaker 1: sweet Andrew Mitchell's face were like looking out at everyone,
Speaker 1: and it's very early in the morning, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, we're all humping each other. It's basically
Speaker 1: like the audience's reaction to it was like because there
Speaker 1: was a pilot, you know, there was nothing, there was
Speaker 1: nothing that was like vulgar or really like in this
Speaker 1: which is full full. Yeah. Do you remember do you
Speaker 1: remember the claw hands that you kept having on your
Speaker 1: your pants smallpants? That's what I swamp swampants. Okay, so
Speaker 1: everybody can start watching the show now for my swamp hands,
Speaker 1: which I still I still do. There's something about the
Speaker 1: way that my my limbs and my um my joints
Speaker 1: go that like, this is really comfortable. I even sleep
Speaker 1: like this. It's the game man in you cons and
Speaker 1: wrist break the swamp hands. Um. I still also um.
Speaker 1: Before we let you go, we have to talk about
Speaker 1: your Golden Globe win for a second, because right this
Speaker 1: was one of the best moments of my life. Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: We sat there and we're at the table with you
Speaker 1: and they and they're like the winner is and they
Speaker 1: call your name and I saw and I'll never forget it.
Speaker 1: The color leave your same. Yeah, And there wasn't much
Speaker 1: he was trying. You were translucent. You turned into Casper, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I will never I was flush. We were like, Chris,
Speaker 1: you have to go up. Yeah. Yeah. Someone I think
Speaker 1: it was either Diana or actually had to pull me up.
Speaker 1: I feel like both of them did. And we're screaming
Speaker 1: while screaming at that table. You can watch it on YouTube,
Speaker 1: but I don't even I don't even remember. I don't
Speaker 1: remember that, Like I I I literally left my body
Speaker 1: and I just I just gone through something similar at
Speaker 1: the Emmy's. We're going up the Emmy's. Every like award
Speaker 1: prediction said I was going to win the Emmy and
Speaker 1: then I didn't. And then the Golden Globes. Every word
Speaker 1: thing said that, um uh eric Ston Street was gonna
Speaker 1: win the Golden Globe and then he didn't. I once,
Speaker 1: So I was just it was I had my biggest
Speaker 1: thing going into that work show was like how can
Speaker 1: I drink the champagne without being caught on camera? Because
Speaker 1: that was to eat we were we didn't chocolate, some
Speaker 1: champagne on the table and that was it right right.
Speaker 1: And I was twenty at the time, and I was
Speaker 1: like I just want I want some champagne like everyone else,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I was like timing it like, Okay,
Speaker 1: my category is coming up. As soon as it's over,
Speaker 1: I can start drinking the champagne, keeping on the cameras
Speaker 1: and then, um, I'm sure people are handing your champagne
Speaker 1: after you won. Oh yeah, yeah they were. Um in
Speaker 1: your acceptance speech also, which I don't I think we
Speaker 1: were all crying and screaming and blacking out as well.
Speaker 1: But you said, screwed the kids, screwed that kids, screw
Speaker 1: that kids. Um, yeah, I'm amazing. I mean what, thanks,
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't know where that came from,
Speaker 1: all right, thank god, thank god. I had like speech
Speaker 1: and debate training in high school, but that I have
Speaker 1: no idea where it came from. But um, it's great.
Speaker 1: It was really great. I remember looking back. I remember
Speaker 1: I like I flugged a line that I was trying
Speaker 1: to say where I meant to I meant to say
Speaker 1: something like, UM, like I owe this to you guys,
Speaker 1: but I was thinking I owe this to you guys,
Speaker 1: and you deserve this as much as I do. And
Speaker 1: I think I said, like you owe this too. Oh wait, no,
Speaker 1: I mean you deserve I look at that, like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, thank god, no one, thank god, people knew
Speaker 1: what I was trying say. Yeah, you would owe me,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that that was a good one.
Speaker 1: I'm not being so worried to going up there. I
Speaker 1: don't know why. Of course, you had something like you
Speaker 1: know you're gonna say something great. Yeah, you always were
Speaker 1: eight steps very quick. But I remember, I'm glad I
Speaker 1: didn't shoot my pants walking up there. That's what I
Speaker 1: was scared of. I was like, what is he going
Speaker 1: to say? I've never seen any of my friends went
Speaker 1: an award before, Like, what the hell is going to happen? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really glad the globes are coming back because that
Speaker 1: means my award isn't canceled. And oh my god, that's right,
Speaker 1: Chris were We're so lucky that you you came on
Speaker 1: to chat with us. Honestly, I know we bug you
Speaker 1: for a million things and like you're always games, so
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. Oh, I love you guys. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Guys always had my back and of course thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for giving me a safe space to talk
Speaker 1: about stuff. Now we appreciate it. Yeah, if you wake
Speaker 1: up with night terrors, with any more trauma, you can
Speaker 1: come back on and just air it and imagine like
Speaker 1: a fainting goat. Like night terrors is a good good
Speaker 1: good title for podcast is should we start one? Horror?
Speaker 1: Start one? What? Yeah? What is your night terror? That's
Speaker 1: what we'll We'll start that. Okay, Anyway, next time on
Speaker 1: What is Your Night Terror with Chris, Kevin and Jenna.
Speaker 1: We gotta get Amber Jack Jack Jack Presents Night Terrors.
Speaker 1: Um No. Thank you for being so open and with
Speaker 1: us and sharing your experience. And we we love you,
Speaker 1: and people, we love you, love you guys so much,
Speaker 1: Thank you, love you. Thanks again to Chris for joining us,
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: We're going to recap Showman's so come on back and subscribe.
Speaker 1: Tell your friends, tell your children, tell your wives, tell
Speaker 1: your husband's, tell your sisters and brothers to come listen.
Speaker 1: Anyone with the phone, computer, Alright, see you next week. Okay,
Speaker 1: bye bye bye