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Speaker 1: Fl media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert here.

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Speaker 1: As a lot of you probably know, about two months ago,

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Speaker 1: my dad took al I spent most of a month

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Speaker 1: in the hospital with him the ICU while he got sicker.

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Speaker 1: He passed a couple of weeks ago, so I have

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Speaker 1: lost some worktime. Needless to say, we'll be taking another

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Speaker 1: break this week, and then we should be back with

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Speaker 1: new episodes for the foreseeable future. I just needed another

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Speaker 1: week to get back ahead, get myself going again for reruns.

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Speaker 1: This week, we're running a trio of great episodes that

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Speaker 1: we did a couple of years ago with Tom Ryman

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Speaker 1: from Game for the Unemployed about right wing talk show

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Speaker 1: guys of the past, the dudes who kind of like

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Speaker 1: laid down the groundwork that made Tucker Carlson and Glenn

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Speaker 1: Beck possible. So they're great episodes. Check them out. And

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Speaker 1: I also wanted to plug the Portland Diaper Bank. Every

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Speaker 1: year around this time we do a fundraiser for the

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Speaker 1: Portland Diaper Bank. This is our fifth year in a row.

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Speaker 1: Last year raised nearly thirty thousand dollars to provide diapers

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Speaker 1: to low income people, and over the course of the

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Speaker 1: last four years, this will be our fifth year Behind

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Speaker 1: the Bastards listeners have raised more than one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to help out, just google go

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Speaker 1: fund me bTB fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank. That's go

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Speaker 1: fund me bTB fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank. Thanks everybody.

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Speaker 2: Whooas what? I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: This has been Behind the Bastards a podcast opened, has been?

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Speaker 2: Are we are?

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Speaker 3: Is that it? Well?

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Speaker 2: It was the whole episode, with the whole episode. You

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Speaker 2: want to try you want to try again? Now, we

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Speaker 2: don't do second takes.

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Speaker 1: The amateur operation you run, you might do things like

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Speaker 1: second takes in a proper.

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Speaker 2: Introduction, but here we just go.

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Speaker 1: Whats a tonally and then trail off for several seconds

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Speaker 1: of dead air.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no lighting. Pro Oh man, that's called cinema verite.

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Speaker 1: Tom No, mmmmm, I know what that term meets.

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Speaker 2: What is this? Is this a show? What's happening?

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Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards? Episode two on our episode

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Speaker 1: about the men who built the right wing media landscape

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Speaker 1: and are consequently ratcheting our world ever closer to calamity.

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Speaker 2: Tom Ryan, Robert is your name?

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Speaker 1: It is of all the Rymans, I know certainly the

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Speaker 1: Thomist and absolutely the Rymenist of the Toms that I know. Tom,

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Speaker 1: you are co founder co host of the Gamefully Unemployed

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Speaker 1: podcast network, which being Patreon. You write for Collider, and

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Speaker 1: you are about to listen to a lot of really,

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Speaker 1: really unpleasant clips of people that are just not very nice.

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Speaker 3: If I woke up this morning and I was thinking, Man,

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Speaker 3: I hope before the sun sets on this day, I

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Speaker 3: get to hear a bunch of shitheads have terrible opinions.

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Speaker 1: Tom, I heard your prayers. I am here to answer them.

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Speaker 1: I texted them too. Of my prayers, I just text

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Speaker 1: them to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's there. They're usually a lot more erotic

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Speaker 2: than this, but I'll take it. Tom.

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Speaker 1: It would take years, by sometimes more than a decade,

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Speaker 1: before Joe Pine would have a true successor. He was

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Speaker 1: so far ahead of his time that it was not

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Speaker 1: until the nineteen eighties he died in nineteen seventy that

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Speaker 1: the media landscape was truly ready for someone to pick

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Speaker 1: up the torch seems like the.

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Speaker 2: Wrong word, like no, it seems like the right word.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is it seems like yeah. The first man

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Speaker 1: to follow in his wake was Wally George.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard of Wally George? No, and I'm usually

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Speaker 2: pretty up on my walis, so yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, No, he's not of all the Walies, but one

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Speaker 1: of the most consequential of the Walies.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: George Walter Perch was born on December fourth, nineteen thirty one,

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Speaker 1: in Oakland, California. His father owned a small shipping company.

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Speaker 1: His mother, Eugenia, had been a vaudeville performer and a

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Speaker 1: child actress in Hollywood. She'd starred in Western's opposite cowboy

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Speaker 1: actors whose names have apparently been forgotten to time because

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Speaker 1: they were not Val Kilmer and Tombstone, So who gives

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Speaker 1: a shit? Wally spent most of his childhood in sam Matteo,

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Speaker 1: but when he was in high school, his parents divorced

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Speaker 1: and his mother moved to Hollywood, where he finished his education.

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Speaker 1: Tom who is the who is the sheriff in Deadwood?

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Speaker 1: Timothy Olifant, Yeah, Timothy oiler Fant. That's the other one.

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Speaker 1: That's the other cowboy, Val Kilmer, Timothy Oilavant. That's all

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Speaker 1: you say? Those are the only Sam Elliot, Sam Elliott,

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Speaker 1: Sam Elliott, Yeah, of course, Sam Elliot. So you're talking

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Speaker 1: about Sam Elliott in The Hunt for Red October because

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Speaker 1: he's honorarily a cowboy, even though he never got to

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Speaker 1: live out his Montana dreams. Right, Yeah, that's it. So

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Speaker 1: that's Sam Neil, that's Sam Neil. Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. How did I do that?

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Speaker 3: Those are two very different too, extremely No, I'll say this.

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Speaker 1: I'll bet Sam Elliott appreciates ducks too. Sam is a duck.

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Speaker 1: That's his best friend. I bet Sam Elliott has loved

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Speaker 1: a duck or two in his life.

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Speaker 2: MM cared for a duck.

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Speaker 3: He looked those eyes looked like a duck has brought

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Speaker 3: a twinkleton or twice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeahsh Ben. You can't smile the way Sam Elliot

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Speaker 1: smiles unless you've been friendly with a duck.

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Speaker 2: There's a duck in that life. I can tell there's

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Speaker 2: a duck in that man's heart somewhere in there.

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Speaker 1: So Wally spends most of his childhood and San Matteo,

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Speaker 1: But when he's in high school, his parents divorce, and

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Speaker 1: that's not common in the forties. Right, It's got to

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Speaker 1: be a great marriage for that to be happening in

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Speaker 1: the forties. Alternatively, maybe it's two parents who are uncommonly

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Speaker 1: aware of how bad a toxic union can be for

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Speaker 1: a kid. I don't really know what the case was.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to guess it was a really unpleasant situation,

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Speaker 1: judging by the probably it becomes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think. I don't think.

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Speaker 3: No fault divorces exist yet existed yet, no California. So

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Speaker 3: you had to like sue for like a reason. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You had to fist fight a judge to get that

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Speaker 1: fight to get worse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So his mother moves to Hollywood, where he finishes his education.

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Speaker 1: He was immediately drawn to the entertainment industry, obviously his

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Speaker 1: family's involved in it. At age fourteen, he gets a

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Speaker 1: gig working as a DJ at an AM radio station

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Speaker 1: in Glendale. Prior to this, Wally had been a stutterer,

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Speaker 1: just like Joe Pine. I do find that interesting. Both

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Speaker 1: these guys are dudes who stutter when they're kids. He

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Speaker 1: credits his first radio gig with curing him. He kind

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Speaker 1: of like overcomes his speech impediment on the job, which

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Speaker 1: I did with carpal tunnel syndrome.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: He subsequently worked at bit gigs at other local radio stations.

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Speaker 1: He held ambitions to write for television, and in his

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Speaker 1: early twenties he did write one episode if the TV

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Speaker 1: show Bonanza. Okay, all right, short, good work, Wally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a real TV show.

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Speaker 3: After we listen, after we listen to this, after we

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Speaker 3: record this, I'm gonna have to go watch that episode

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Speaker 3: see if anything pops out to me, if there's.

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Speaker 1: Anything problematic about Wally George's episode of Bonanza?

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Speaker 3: Is there anything problematic about an episode of Bonanza?

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Speaker 2: That's the one.

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Speaker 1: It's the one Bonanza episode that in the middle has

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Speaker 1: a seven minute rant about Martin Luther King Junior. So

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Speaker 1: Wally got his first radio show, the Wally George Show

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Speaker 1: on kt y NFM in Inglewood. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: do my radio voice for that one.

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Speaker 2: It came across. Yeah, thank you, Tom.

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Speaker 3: I love how not imaginative any of these people are.

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Speaker 3: It's always either just the my Name Show or the

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Speaker 3: My Name Report or the my Name file.

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Speaker 2: That's the only thing they have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a degree of it that's just like, look,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna move, as we saw with Joe Pine.

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Speaker 2: It's not uncommon.

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Speaker 1: It's just been like a year or less at most

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Speaker 1: of the places you work you're moving around all the time,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to build brand recognition, so at least you

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Speaker 1: want people to like know your name, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And to be fair, everybody doesn't. They don't say

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Speaker 3: let's watch tonight. So the tonight show. They say, let's

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Speaker 3: watch Carson, Let's watch le.

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Speaker 1: Let's watch Carson, let's watch Leno, Let's watch No, there's

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Speaker 1: no one else anyone.

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Speaker 2: That's it. It's dop. Yeah, that's it. It's done now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I have no animosity towards Stephen Colbert,

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Speaker 1: but my god, late Night TV is just a horrible idea.

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Speaker 1: We should know that now, we should accept it. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's it.

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Speaker 2: Needs to go.

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Speaker 1: Craig Ferguson needs to be allowed to take it out

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Speaker 1: behind a barn and shoot it. That's who should do it.

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Speaker 1: Craig crying like the boy in Old Yeller Is he

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Speaker 1: loads his dad shotgun.

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Speaker 2: So Johnny Pearson's shotgun and this one you So he

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Speaker 2: gets his.

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Speaker 1: First show in nineteen sixty nine, which is the year

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Speaker 1: before Joe Pine dies. And yeah, he goes through, you know,

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Speaker 1: he does, like the they all do. He runs through

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Speaker 1: like a series of shows on different networks, he produces

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Speaker 1: and co hosts talk radio programs, one with LA's mayor

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Speaker 1: Sam Yorty for like nearly a decade, so he's in

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Speaker 1: like talk radio for a while, but kind of a

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Speaker 1: respectable turn of talk radio. He starts his own radio

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Speaker 1: show and it does well enough that he's able to

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Speaker 1: uh In nineteen seventy nine, he starts his own talk

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Speaker 1: radio show again, and this one does well enough that

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Speaker 1: he's able to launch his own TV show off of it,

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Speaker 1: called hot Seat, which first airs in nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 1: at an independent radio station in Anaheim, California. Now nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty three is a year before Rush Limbas started his

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Speaker 1: first political radio show and a decade before the first

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Speaker 1: episode of the Jerry Springer Show in nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 1: Hot Seat with Wally George would include elements from both

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Speaker 1: of these later shows. From an article in Timeline Quote,

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Speaker 1: George had a way of riling even the most collected

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Speaker 1: and intelligent guests. In his first year, for instance, George

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Speaker 1: invited then ACLU lawyer and later journalist Jeff Cohen to

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Speaker 1: talk about police brutality and surveillance of lawful, politically motivated organizations.

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Speaker 1: At first, Cohen's responses to questions like why do you

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Speaker 1: want to handcuff the police depart from catching criminals seem prepared, choreographed,

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Speaker 1: but after a few minutes the interview intensifies. Both raise

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Speaker 1: their voices, the audience clatters and gesticulates. George interjects with

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Speaker 1: an age old challenge, I have nothing to hide, so

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Speaker 1: what do I care if police watch me? The audience

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Speaker 1: braves with joy. But for all his cruel, bravado and

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Speaker 1: personal attacks, George consistently stumbled when the tables were turned.

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Speaker 1: His ideology was full of contradictions. In one episode, he spits,

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Speaker 1: I say, Martin Luther King does not deserve a national

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Speaker 1: holiday in his name. There are many more Americans who

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Speaker 1: deserve it a heck of a lot more so.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of guy he is.

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Speaker 1: We're no longer like the genteel playing at being polite

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Speaker 1: kind of guy. He's very much a recognizable sort of

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Speaker 1: right wing media figure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. In November, Yeah he's keeping it the authentically asshole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, keeping it authentically asshole. In November of nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 1: Whallely earned his first national news story when he so

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Speaker 1: irritated his guest Blaze Bond Pain a pacifist in Human

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Speaker 1: Rights Act.

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Speaker 2: Best name rules.

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Speaker 1: That is a good name right now. The short version

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Speaker 1: of the story is that Blaze got angry and flipped

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Speaker 1: Wally's desk. He had to be escorted out by security.

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Speaker 3: That's like, this really happens. It's like something a person

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Speaker 3: named Blaze would do.

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Speaker 1: It does it does because he's a Blaze man, He's

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Speaker 1: full of fire.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like an American gladiator.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna flip pecifically while he gets like a pacifist

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Speaker 1: activist to flip his desk.

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Speaker 2: On TV's desk. What has never really happened before.

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Speaker 1: This is like a huge deal, Like this is the

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Speaker 1: first Heraldo getting hit with a fucking chair. You know, God,

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Speaker 1: what a great moment that was. I found an interview

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Speaker 1: with Blaze that sheds more light on this incident and

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Speaker 1: what came after. Because this incident really like you could

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Speaker 1: draw a direct line from this to Jerry Springer.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, what year was this again?

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Speaker 1: This is nineteen eighty three. Eighty three starts in ninety one, okay,

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Speaker 1: And this is really like this, this this chunk I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna read is interesting because it gives you, It gives

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Speaker 1: you a sense of the way in which Wally is

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Speaker 1: helping to give birth to not just the cultural space

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Speaker 1: that guys like Jerry Springer occupied, but like what reality

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Speaker 1: TV becomes. So this is him, This is Blaze talking

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Speaker 1: about what happened after he flips that desk and gets

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Speaker 1: escorted off by security.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: He called me this had to be nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 1: and asked if I could come on his program. It

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Speaker 1: was right during Reagan's warren Grenada. In a phone conversation,

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Speaker 1: he seemed just delightful. I was in the background listening

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Speaker 1: to his interviews just before me, a Mexican American attorney,

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Speaker 1: and Wally was just insulting him with racial slurs and

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Speaker 1: so on, and I was quite irritated just hearing him operate.

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Speaker 1: When it was my turn, I went to the interview

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Speaker 1: and he had a large group of young people in

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Speaker 1: the audience, and just as he was getting started, I

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Speaker 1: tore towards the audience and I said, I hope you

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Speaker 1: won't go and die as the enemy in a place

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Speaker 1: like Grenada where you're not wanted. He got a little

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Speaker 1: upset when I made that comment. He came over and

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Speaker 1: assaulted me and battered me. He attacked me from behind.

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Speaker 1: It was a little difficult for a long standing boxer

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Speaker 1: to not respond, but I thought that would be a

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Speaker 1: terrible thing to do. So I looked at his desk

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Speaker 1: and I saw there was no one near it and

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Speaker 1: no one that would be harmed. So I just flipped

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Speaker 1: the desk over and walked out. I came home and

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Speaker 1: I told my wife and children how surprised I was,

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Speaker 1: and within moments we saw it on ABC, CBS, NBC.

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Speaker 1: It was all over the country. I think that particular

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Speaker 1: episode has been played a thousand times across the country.

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Speaker 1: I still see it. It's amazing how it made an

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Speaker 1: impact on TV. There was no staging. However, after the

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Speaker 1: securityman ushered me to my car, I went home, and

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Speaker 1: the following morning, Wally called me and said, Blaze, we

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Speaker 1: have a terrific thing going here. We can do this

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Speaker 1: all over the country. I said, Wally, you're a charlatan

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Speaker 1: and there will be no further interviews, thank you. See,

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Speaker 1: like Wally doesn't believe in shit. No, Wally is just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll bring this guy like I want him to throw shit.

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Speaker 1: I want to like, this is great TV.

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Speaker 3: So that's more the thing that I was talking about

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Speaker 3: last episode where it's like, is he genuinely getting pulled

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Speaker 3: in this direction or is he getting pulled in this

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Speaker 3: direction because like this makes good TV? And yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: like the guiding light of a lot of these chuds

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Speaker 3: is that they don't actually believe in a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: If anything, at all, believe in whatever gets them the money, gets.

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Speaker 2: Into the attention. I think Joe Pine might have believed

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Speaker 2: in things.

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Speaker 1: He certainly fought for something at one point, I Wally

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Speaker 1: clearly doesn't, like he's just happy to like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like the next day, like it was a pro wrestling match. Yeah, exactly, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we can do this, all of it and we can

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Speaker 2: turn the countries. What the fuck are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Joe Pine is like not a good person, not a

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Speaker 1: nice person, pretty racist and bigoted, I'm sure in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, although I doubt excessively for his time,

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Speaker 1: which is not saying anything good about him. It's talking

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Speaker 1: about like the white dudes in the nineteen sixties is

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Speaker 1: his generation. We're pretty fucking racist. But I don't think

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't qualify him as a bastard based on like

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Speaker 1: the things he intentionally did. Once we're at Wally, George

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Speaker 1: we're in like the like full bastard territory, like wheat,

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Speaker 1: because Joe Pane is a guy who's like willing to

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Speaker 1: do things and like judge up controversy, but also can

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Speaker 1: listen to people and like has something he believes in

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Speaker 1: and is trying to get across With Wally George, it

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Speaker 1: is peer. I'm into this right wing shit just for

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Speaker 1: because it's what it gets the rage views, it gets

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Speaker 1: people angry, gets people riled up. I don't care who

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Speaker 1: I have on. I want folks to fight. I just

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Speaker 1: want to like tickle people's amygdala and make them angry.

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Speaker 2: You know, does he start selling brain pills? Robert? No, No,

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Speaker 2: he does not, not to mine. Know, Well, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I can't comprehensively say he never sold brain pills.

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Speaker 1: I cannot make that claim to a point of certainty. Tom,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna be so excited as he showed up that,

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Speaker 1: Like Alex Jones and like a lot of the folks

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Speaker 1: who came after, Wally George built an audience that was

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Speaker 1: cult like in its devotion. By nineteen eighty four, an

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Speaker 1: audience of mostly college age men were waiting up to

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Speaker 1: six months for their chance to sit in his eighty

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Speaker 1: person studio audience. People would like sign up for this

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Speaker 1: shit way ahead of time. They'd shout Whali Whally and

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Speaker 1: wear shirts with American flags on them, roaring until he

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Speaker 1: forced them to stop. Where Joe Pine could be mocking

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Speaker 1: and even cruel, as long as he maintained an air

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Speaker 1: of genteel politeness, Wally George was free to scream, shout,

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Speaker 1: and even strike people. He told one interviewer in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four. They say that I'm a lunatic, that I'm

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Speaker 1: a maniac. But why do you have to smile at

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Speaker 1: your guests and be nice and let them say what

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Speaker 1: they want to say? In this Wally completed the transition

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Speaker 1: from Joe Pine, a right wing firebrand whose work was

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Speaker 1: still firmly rooted in the outward civility of the nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 1: to modern right wing media. Whially would not sit and

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Speaker 1: listen to, for example, a transwoman explaining her life. He

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Speaker 1: had no interest in letting guests say their piece. The

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Speaker 1: central conceit of his show was that left leaning guests

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Speaker 1: would be allowed to show up and try to make

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Speaker 1: an argument, while Wally and his audience harassed and insulted them.

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Speaker 1: I want to play this segment from his show where

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Speaker 1: he has a popular radio DJ on the DJ brings

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Speaker 1: you two albums to hand out to the audience. It

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Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty four, and he chastised, and he chastises

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Speaker 1: Wally for having previously claimed the band were devil worshippers,

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Speaker 1: which is an argument Wally George made a number of times.

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Speaker 1: Here's Wally's reply.

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Speaker 4: Were you said you two a bunch of devil worship

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Speaker 4: they are? They're terrible that Christians three of the four. Chris,

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Speaker 4: you're saying I'm wrong, You're wrong?

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Speaker 2: Why is never?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's what he looks like to me,

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Speaker 3: because he looks like Rick Slayer with a wet we're

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Speaker 3: getting be on, really take it down.

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Speaker 2: Of the same time, it looks.

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Speaker 4: Like is cracking down on what they call it spiritual radio,

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Speaker 4: shock radio. And I say it's about time. I say

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Speaker 4: the FCC should crack down. There's a lot of nonsense,

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Speaker 4: a lot of really filth and sexual innuendo that little

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Speaker 4: kids are listening to. And I say it's about time

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Speaker 4: that the FCC cracked down on these filthy radio stations.

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Speaker 2: All right, all right, that's enough. Of this clip.

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Speaker 1: So, first off, he looks incredible. He looks incredible.

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Speaker 2: It looks the amazing thing about Wally looks like a

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Speaker 2: carnival magician.

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Speaker 3: You you watch, he looks like a guy that ties

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Speaker 3: balloon animals.

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Speaker 1: You watched thirty seconds of Wally George, and every fake

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Speaker 1: media figure from a Paul Verhoven movie in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties suddenly make because they're all him. They're all Wally George.

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Speaker 1: Like every media figure that like got mocked in one

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Speaker 1: of those like surreal nineties movies is fucking Wally George.

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Speaker 3: He looks like Julian Sands as a TV preacher. He

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Speaker 3: looks like if Julian Sanje was a warlock. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: if a vampire bits Julian Asanja's neck, he would turn

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Speaker 3: it into It's incredible.

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Speaker 1: He's in for those of you who aren't going to

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Speaker 1: look at the picture. He has like shoulder length white

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Speaker 1: hair that can't be real.

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Speaker 2: Cannot be real.

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Speaker 3: It's either a wig or like so flat ironed that

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Speaker 3: it just lays there.

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Speaker 1: And he's got a white suit. He looks like mister

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00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 1: White from the Venture Brothers, but not at all.

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Speaker 2: Bite.

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Speaker 1: He's just an amazing amazing commitment to a very speci aesthetic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like, this is my thing and I'm just

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Speaker 3: gonna blunt force it.

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Speaker 1: I am the nineteen eighties. A third of my body

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Speaker 1: weight is cocaine.

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Speaker 3: It's he does he looks like somebody like he looks

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Speaker 3: like the shredded dumped mutagen on the pilot cocaine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that creation was a man. That's Wally

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Speaker 2: Churis mutated. So Tom. Yeah.

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00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,719
Speaker 1: Here's him talking to Larry Rice, a same sex marriage

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Speaker 1: advocate and an AIDS awareness activist.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, hooray a gay pride parade.

401
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 4: I say, my man, it is very offensive. It is

402
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 4: very offensive for gays to be running around or groping

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Speaker 4: each other in the park.

404
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Speaker 3: What do you think about that? I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't think.

406
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Speaker 4: I don't think it's very fair for you to make

407
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 4: fun of people who's whose lifestyle is not the way

408
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,479
Speaker 4: you want it to be.

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Speaker 2: I think it's all really.

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Speaker 4: I think it's kind of sad, you know, because like

411
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 4: they don't hurt you what they do. And you know,

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00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 4: I said, I have offense of you. Stupid.

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Speaker 2: It's offensive and you're offensive.

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Speaker 3: It's not fair.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what because people like you.

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Speaker 4: Here are the people that cause the problem. Look, look,

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00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 4: people who are gay, people who are gay, they do have,

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Speaker 4: they do have.

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Speaker 2: They are very rough. They have it very.

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Speaker 4: Rough in this world, okay, because of people like you.

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Speaker 2: And I think, wait a minute, wait a minute, a minute,

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Speaker 2: this is very upsetive. I think that people make.

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Speaker 4: It so hard for them to live that they have

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Speaker 4: a lot of my mental disorders and things. Oh yeah, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's probably about enough of that. He's it's man,

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Speaker 2: if you guys listening can stomach it's.

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00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 3: It's horrible his audience, and they're just like like huge, nothing.

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00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: But high school bullies, like screaming disguises. He's sick. It's horrible.

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Speaker 3: He's just trying to get his point out, and he's

430
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Speaker 3: saying like this these completely rational things.

431
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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But it's also one of these a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that are interesting. Comparing him to Joe Pine. Number one,

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Speaker 1: you can think back to Joepine again, I'm certain held

435
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: very regressive views on gay people, but asking with genuine interest,

436
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: Oh so someone who is a who's a transvestite isn't

437
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: necessarily a homosexual. Oh that's interesting to me as opposed

438
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 1: to Wally George, who just starts screaming at how offensive

439
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: like the thought of a gay person existing.

440
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 3: It's like his with his flaxen shoulder length hair and

441
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 3: long sleeved turtleneck with a blazer, and he's screaming about

442
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 3: how gay Pride parade is offensive.

443
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's Roger Stone vibes.

444
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely has done Roger that Roger Stone would

445
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: wear look like a disguise.

446
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: In a Bond villain wig. Yeah.

447
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: And the other thing that's different is that, you know,

448
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: Joe Pine could be We played him being very rude

449
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: to some people, but also they were all people who

450
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: could go toe to toe with him rhetorically, like Krasner.

451
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: You know, obviously he didn't respect Krasner. Krasner's media trained.

452
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: Krasner was ready for what. You know, he gave as

453
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: good as he got. This poor man Larry Rice nothing

454
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: against him because he's saying very reasonable things. He's clearly

455
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: not media trained, not reading, he's not really he's not,

456
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: and he's so nothing against him. The clip is so

457
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: upsetting because you can see there. It's part of why

458
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: it's part of like the bad faith of like debate

459
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: me because the tactic is just to keep shouting at

460
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: you these things to keep you off topic. And it's like,

461
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,719
Speaker 1: not only is this guy battling this overbearing dipshit of

462
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: a host, but the entire audience is jeering at him

463
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: the whole time. It's like, I can't imagine being in that,

464
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: like even if you are media trained, Like, even if

465
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: you are media trained, being in that situation, it's like Jesus, like,

466
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't find footing to even make my argument.

467
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: No one can do well in that kind of an environment.

468
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: But no, And it's again, it's one of those things.

469
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: I do think that like Joe Pine was someone who

470
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 1: did want to debate people and would debate people, and

471
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: would go out of his way to get people who

472
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: who could present themselves well on television, even if what

473
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: they were saying was like and I'm not going to

474
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: say that maybe this was comprehensibly true of everything he did,

475
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: but all of Wally George is like this. It is

476
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: nothing but this, It is just hate. I want to

477
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: point out that his little turtleneck matched the wallpaper of

478
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: his set.

479
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 2: It did, it, sure did.

480
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 3: He's got a little behind him is a frame photo

481
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: of a of a space shuttle taking off. It just

482
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: says USA at the bottom. Yeah, so his set is

483
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 3: like a little boys room.

484
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: And it's I keep bringing up Joe Pine, like positively,

485
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: not to say nice things about Joe Pine, and please

486
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: don't take this as like me trying to defend his legacy,

487
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: but to point like how badly things have degenerated, Like

488
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: how sixteen seventeen years dark.

489
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 3: The difference is, Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to think of, like, man,

490
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: what happened, And you know, a lot of things happened

491
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 3: Reagan for one yees between nineteen seventy and nineteen the religious.

492
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: Right became a political block, which it wasn't when when

493
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: Joe Pine was on the air. The religious right was

494
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: not a political block. That didn't happen till seventy nine.

495
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just it's a very bleak, but very clear.

496
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: He's also slide downhill. He's proto seven hundred Club too.

497
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: Just the way he looks, the way he looks. I

498
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: don't know if he was proto when did the seven

499
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: hundred club step?

500
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: That's true Solid Radio Google nineteen sixty six. So he's

501
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: the seven hundred Club. I gotta give you that.

502
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, but Tom, you know what did come before

503
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: the seven hundred Club, and.

504
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: We'll be there long after. I don't know, I don't know.

505
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: Are you gonna tell.

506
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: Me the products and services Tom, that support this podcast?

507
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow, solid solid throat to add man.

508
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: We're back and we're we're we're not better than ever.

509
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: We just are continually sliding down hill.

510
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: No we're not even We're not even better than Ezra

511
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: at this point. No, we're not.

512
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: Now, Tom, So let's talk some more about that horrific

513
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: interview with Larry Rice.

514
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: They really upset me, It's really upset it.

515
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: And again it's the kind of thing like you just

516
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: didn't feel that way listening to the Joe Pine clips,

517
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: even when he was being a shithead, not that kind of.

518
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: Well, it's it's the it's it's frighteningly close to a

519
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 3: lynch mob.

520
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

521
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if he'd ordered them, they would have. Yeah,

522
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: it's it's really alarming. It's it's a it's very upsetting

523
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: clip to watch.

524
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: It's really fucked up, and it gets a lot worse.

525
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: And he's clown to like the Joker on vacation, fucking

526
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: Wally George.

527
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: That's a clown name. That's a clown shoe name.

528
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: Wally motherfucker. So he goes on in that interview to

529
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: say here in the United States, we don't want perverts

530
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: marrying each other. And then when they start discussing AIDS prevention,

531
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: he tells Larry, I don't want these gay AIDS carriers

532
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: to spread their disease to all of us heterosexuals. People

533
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: like you were spitting at me. I could catch AIDS

534
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: from you. Just a mountainous shit dressed in a terrible suit.

535
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: Now, when it comes to evaluating.

536
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: The appeal and the impact of Wally George, I think

537
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: this passage from that timeline article does about the best

538
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: job possible. Quote hot Seat commodified old white man anger

539
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: and gave it room to fester. George's fury was the

540
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: entire point. It gave audiences permission to act out their

541
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: basest impulses. During the conservative Reagan era, the allure of

542
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: the show was merely having an outlet for anger.

543
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 2: Period.

544
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: It was a contractual yelling match with the viewers invited.

545
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: Yep, that makes sense. Yeah, I like that. All ties

546
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: together seems relevant. Gosh, somebody else really rose to prominence

547
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 3: the eighties. Gosh, who was that major and Howard sterns

548
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: is a big major media figure being facetious, Rush Limbaugh, yeah,

549
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: Lima Trump Yeah, Trump.

550
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is this is the era there all,

551
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: this is where all.

552
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: All of them dickheads came from.

553
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: All those real pieces of ship. Now, during his rise

554
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: to prominence, as we stated, there were a number of

555
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: dudes inhabiting a similar field. Rush Limba gets on the

556
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: radio a year later. Don Imus and Howard Stern, who

557
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: are less offensive figures, not much less in the case

558
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: of Don Imis, are starting around this period. But the

559
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: fact that Wally George worked most prominent, worked most prominently

560
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: on TV, giving his viewers and live audiences an outlet

561
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: to vent their rage and frustration on human beings made

562
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: them made him unique. In his nineteen again, it's it's

563
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: like half a lynch mob, and that's half of the appeal. Yeah,

564
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: what Wally George does. In his nineteen ninety nine autobiography,

565
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: he coined the phrase combat TV to describe the thing

566
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: that he invented. And now that's like all news programs. Yeah,

567
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: it's just bleak. One of Wally's most popular guests was

568
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: a special piece of shit named Tom Metzger, the head

569
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: of a Nazi organization called White Arian Resistance. I suppose

570
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: you could critique him again like Joe Pine platforming a Nazi,

571
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: and he is kind of doing that. But Wally, I

572
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: don't know. Wally can't be certainly can't be accused of

573
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: equivocating on Nazism, because I'm going to play you a

574
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: clip of that next.

575
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: All across this great country now in our eleventh year

576
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 4: and we have the future r.

577
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: Tom Metzger. He's stressed like a batman villain.

578
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: As I was about to say before we went to

579
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 4: our break, some of you don't know what Tom Metzger

580
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: has been involved in. I'm going to go back to

581
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 4: that case up in Oregon where some of Tom Metzger's

582
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: followers went up to Oregon and they beat a black

583
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 4: man to death with don't you applaud that, you idiot?

584
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 4: They beat this black man to death with baseball bats.

585
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 4: Followers of Tom Metzker. You see, he sits there with us.

586
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 4: He sits there with that smug little grin on his

587
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 4: face because he doesn't get his hands bloody. He sends out, wait,

588
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 4: he sends out his henchman and his followers to do

589
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 4: his dirty work for him.

590
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: All right, all right, all right, So it's very it's

591
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: very very telling that he had to tell somebody in

592
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: the audience stop clapping.

593
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, that's that's the point.

594
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: Out because he is certainly not in like to the

595
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: synthy platforms Metsker. He's mostly screaming at him. But you

596
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: can see again where things have gone that, like, yes, stop.

597
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: His hind fla, you're encouraging it's bringing these people in

598
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 3: Wally like it's fascinating.

599
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: But it's also there's something so bleak about that too,

600
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of mostly horrible things you

601
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: can say about Wally. And I'm sure Tom went on

602
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: his show because he saw it as a platform, but

603
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: Wally never for a second pretended that this guy need

604
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: to be heard out. He just had him on to

605
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: scream at it, which, again, as bad as Wally George,

606
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: just makes him better than a lot of right wing

607
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: media today. Like even it's even gone hill downhill since

608
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: Wally George is the point I'm making, not trying to

609
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: like praise Wally George, but it's.

610
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: Like the bar has lowered even more than this cesspool.

611
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know, maybe like if fucking Richard

612
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: Spencer he would have heard out. I don't know, I

613
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: don't He didn't often hear people out, so I don't

614
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: know that he would have invited anyone on that he

615
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: couldn't have just screamed at.

616
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's a little bleak.

617
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: That said, he was very happy to capitalize off the

618
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: outrage that bringing a guy like Metzger on generated. And

619
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: I sure don't want to be praising him for yelling

620
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: at Tom Metzger. He's doing it to make money. I

621
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: want to quote from an article on Wally by OC Weekly,

622
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: Orange County, which is, for those of you who do

623
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: not know, like the Republican and one of the biggest

624
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 1: Republican stronghold in California.

625
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: Pretty much what made those hot.

626
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: Seat appearances by Metzger in the nineteen eighties and nineties

627
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: so relevant was just how clearly the lines between good

628
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: and evil were drawn. George wore the white hat literally,

629
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: and Metzger was the bad guy if there was no

630
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: gray to be found, and the audience reaction corroborated those roles.

631
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: George's last interview with Metzger was around nineteen ninety two.

632
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: Against the backdrop of that year's LA riots, and George

633
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: absolutely laid into Metzger. George repeatedly scolded Metzger for being

634
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: Unamerican and referred to War as a bunch of dumb Nazis.

635
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: George kicked Metzger off his stage after an unprecedented but

636
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: understandable four minutes. It was a proud moment for Orange

637
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: County Conservatism as embodied by George. It stood up to

638
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: the emblematic scourge of white supremacy. And obviously I don't

639
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: particularly agree with that take, but it's interesting that like,

640
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: this modern oc conservative writer is looking back at Wally

641
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: George and be like, remember when we yelled at Nazis

642
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: as supposed to marching with them in the streets. Like

643
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that this guy's right, because

644
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: this shouldn't be a proud moment for conservatism.

645
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: He's he brought him on his fucking show.

646
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to me that this guy looking at

647
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: like because he's I'm sure he's referring to like these

648
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: mobs you've had, like attacking vaccine sites and fucking wispaw

649
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: and whatnot in LA some of which include fucking Nazis,

650
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, remember when we used to at

651
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: least yell at Nazis.

652
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: It's bleak.

653
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: Wally filmed his show in Orange County, and he was

654
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: a local institution and incredibly influential to the combatative form

655
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: of conservatism that exists in that enclave to this day.

656
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: But as the author of that article points out, modern

657
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: oc conservatives, though very much the descendants of Wally George,

658
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: often lack his very minimal ethical convictions. Quote Prescient of

659
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: what occurred in Charlottesville and Trump's reaction to it, the

660
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two interview with Metzger captured a moment in

661
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: time when conservative Republicans rallied openly against white supremacy in

662
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: the Nazis. Watching that episode at his equal parts antiquated

663
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: and orwellian, with George orchestrating an audience full of young,

664
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 1: mostly white conservative Orange County men and fomenting and rallying

665
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: viciously against Metzger and what he stood for. To riff

666
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: on Trump's own axiom, George made it clear that there

667
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: were not very fine people on both sides. In a

668
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: fitting into the segment, George stood up behind his desk

669
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: and let his audience in a recitation of the Pledge

670
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: of Allegiance, with particular vocal emphasis on the last line,

671
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: with liberty and justice for all. He then expanded on

672
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: that theme to his audience as he looked deploringly at Metzger,

673
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: reminding him the phrasemant to encompass all races, all religions,

674
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: and all creeds. And yeah, it's a it's bleak.

675
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like George Wally's all. Wally's the

676
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 3: kind of dude that would have this guy on to

677
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: scream at him. Not because he really personally finds his

678
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: politics all that distaste.

679
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: Because I don't think he cares about any I don't think. No,

680
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure he finds the because I don't think he

681
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: cares about politics much.

682
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: No, it was just of one. I don't know.

683
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: It was just a thing, creating a situation where he

684
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: could be the good guy, yeah, and generate you know,

685
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: ratings for his TV show.

686
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I refuse to plot him for any part. No.

687
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: No, I'm not quoting this to applaud him. Quoting because

688
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting to see someone writing from that perspective of

689
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: age County Conservative going remember when.

690
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: We when we didn't like Nazi.

691
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 3: Remember when we remember when we had at least that

692
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 3: line that we.

693
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: Crossed, and when you're looking back at Wally George, Yeah, standard,

694
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: we believed in things.

695
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 3: And there's this guy that like calls a dude who

696
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 3: flipped his desk over the next day. We should turn

697
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: the country with this, We should tour the country believe

698
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: in anything.

699
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: He believe me, he doesn't believe in a goddamn thing.

700
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 4: Now.

701
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: It is unclear to me whether or not Wally George,

702
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: living in the modern era, would have fully embraced embraced

703
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: the white nationalist authoritarian politics that have since devoured the

704
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: gop I suspect so in a way that I don't

705
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: know if Joe Pine would have as racist as I'm

706
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: sure Joe Pine was.

707
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: Joe Pine at least was in World War Two. Like

708
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 3: I think he might fight not he might brush up

709
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: against that little bit.

710
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: I think if he saw a dude with a swastika

711
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: flag in a march, he'd be like, well, fuck those guys.

712
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever's happening over there, Whatever happening over there, and

713
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: don't like that flag?

714
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So yeah, it's I don't know. I can't

715
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: say what Wally would have done clearly. But if we're

716
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: to judge purely off his TV appearances.

717
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 2: Maybe no.

718
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: If we're to judge what we know about him morally,

719
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: probably yes.

720
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: He seems cut from the same grift cloth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: And Wally is it's worth noting one of the very

722
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: first conservative political voices to use a phrase that has

723
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: since become infamous. We must make America great again. Wally

724
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: said this regularly on his show throughout the nineteen eighties

725
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: and early nineteen nineties. Alongside Rush Limbaugh. He also popularized

726
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: phrases like liberal lunatics, calling his detractors strippers, mud wrestlers,

727
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: and bimbos of all sizes and shapes. By the nineteen nineties,

728
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: Hot Seat was no longer close to unique. Jerry Springer

729
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: and Rush Limbaugh had both entered TV by then. Russia's

730
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: foray didn't last long, but in nineteen ninety six, Fox

731
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: News started up and provided a much more respectable than

732
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: you for far right hate speech. Meanwhile, Jerry Springer delivered

733
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: a gleefully a political approach to combat television that more

734
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: people found appealing than Wally's right wing rants. The fact

735
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: that Springer himself was a much more pleasant person than

736
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: George may have had something to do with this.

737
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety.

738
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: Five, George's wife left him in the least surprising turnover.

739
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: She took their seven year old daughter with her, Thank

740
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: God Jesus Christ. We do not know how many times

741
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: Wally was married, at least four, some sources say as

742
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: many as six times.

743
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: I like it. It's like a fucking legend, like we

744
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: don't know it. It's like we don't really know.

745
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 3: Of course, that fucking crip keeper looking dude, We don't know,

746
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: don't know how many wives he's got locked in a

747
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 3: closet like surviving, right exactly.

748
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Wally had several kids, but he was not

749
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: really a father to any of them, like he would

750
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: have kids, but he was no one's father.

751
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say, man, judging by his set,

752
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 2: I thought he would have delighted in having little.

753
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: Kids, having a little kid around you guys, in her

754
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: rocket ships.

755
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 2: And blue turtlenecks.

756
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: His most prominent child, Tom was the actress Rebecca de Mournay. No, yeah,

757
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: that's his daughter, Wally George's daughter. Tell us about Rebecca

758
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: de Mournay. Oh, they have kind of the same hair,

759
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: like you can see it. Man, that's that's fucked up.

760
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, she's in Hand that Rocks the Cradle.

761
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: She's in that The Sweet Three Musketeers, you know, the

762
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: Disney one with with Oliver Platt and Charlie Sheen and

763
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: Keithith Sutherland.

764
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: It's in that TV.

765
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: Version of the Shining she is in that TV version

766
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 3: of the Shot Town. That's uh, man, that just shattered

767
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 3: my entire universe. You didn't expect that, did not expect that.

768
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: Didn't expect to learn that today, did you?

769
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: Was she?

770
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 4: No?

771
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: That that's too late. I was gonna say, was she

772
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 3: the one that the that the wife took?

773
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: But no, she was Rebecca to Morney was already movies

774
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: at that point. Yeah, I think she was. Ye know,

775
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: he was just having kids in abandoning. I'm left and right.

776
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: You know who else has kids and abandons them?

777
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: The person the sponsors are responsible for these delightful products.

778
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: Not a single one of them, not a single one

779
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: of them, raise their own kids.

780
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: Well that's gonna help us get sponsors.

781
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: Robert, thank you, Sophie, thank you sobe. Look, I think

782
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: some people, you know, like to like raise their kids

783
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: in a loving environment, and some people like the song

784
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: A Boy Named Sue and think that that's a good

785
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: way to raise a kid. And both options are equally respectable.

786
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: And what does that have to do with our sponsors.

787
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: Well, if you can abandon your kids as long as

788
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: you name them Sue, it's fine. As the song shows,

789
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: they'll turn out. Okay, we'll also learn how to fight.

790
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: We'll also accept ramblin Man. Ramblin Man share absolutely great

791
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: great child rearing advice in ramblin Man. All right, well that's.

792
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: Going to lead us to ads.

793
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: We're back, and we're all just silently appreciating the song

794
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: A Boy Named Sue, which again and contains all of

795
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: the parenting lessons. Anyone listening to this will ever need to.

796
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 3: Know, certainly anyone we're talking about, well, certainly ever ever observed.

797
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 3: So Rebecca de Mornay, am I saying her name right

798
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: as far as I know? All right, yeah, you know

799
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: she is obviously what's she in?

800
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: What? What's that? What's her big ship? I just rattled?

801
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: Are you serious? I just rattled? Tom?

802
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Okay, well my brain doesn't work, Tom.

803
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: Hand the rocks the cradle is probably your biggest thing.

804
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: Right hand that rocks the cradle I'm sorry, I'm on

805
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm on drugs, and it's more that i've I'm most

806
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: mostly sober now. It's more that I was on drugs

807
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: for thirteen straight years. My memory doesn't do so great.

808
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, really, you knew me. I remember that

809
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: in the money was smoking. Yeah, you were there for

810
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 3: that that night. I gave everybody way too much. You

811
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: put Dave in the hospital hallucinating.

812
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in fairness, Dave, Dave decided the hospital

813
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: was the right place to be at them.

814
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.

815
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to watch back to the future

816
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: since we were coming up during that when we realized

817
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 1: we had grossly misjudged the amount of Podcat he'd.

818
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: Taken a whole lot.

819
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: It was something like sixty sixty doses or so.

820
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 4: So.

821
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: His most prominent child was the actress Rebecca de Mornay,

822
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: who fucking hated Wally George. She like publicly attacked him,

823
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: and Wally blasted her in interviews as bitter, twisted and

824
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: out to ruin me. I found an old La Times

825
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: article that provides more context to Wally during the downswing

826
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: of his career. You know she's my daughter, don't you

827
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: asks George. He can't help basking in the reflected glory

828
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: of her celebrity status, even while conceding that she grew

829
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: up in England without knowing him and wants nothing to

830
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: do with him. Now, what really bothers me more than

831
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: anything is that she's given interviews saying I never tried

832
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: to contact her until after she became a star. It's

833
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 1: not true I embarrass her. She hangs out with left

834
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: wing actors like Robert de Niro and Jack Nicholson and

835
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: Harry Dean Stanton. They don't like me because I bad

836
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: mouthed Hollywood. They've convinced her I'm bad for her career.

837
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: I just love that that trifecta. It's like Robertson, Hero.

838
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson, Harry Dean, famed leftists all. It's very funny.

839
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: In fact, yeah, sorry, yeah, it's very funny. And it's

840
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: one of those things like probably nothing would have maybe

841
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: saved his career more than if he'd actually like made

842
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: up with his daughter and like done a big TV

843
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: special about it.

844
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: But she never gave into that shit.

845
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: Like that's clearly what he wanted was some kind of

846
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: like big public you know, for show. Right, He obviously

847
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: didn't give a shit about her.

848
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: He abandoned. No, I'm sure, but I'm sure once she

849
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 2: was on his TV show.

850
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah yeah. By the mid nineteen nineties,

851
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: George's audience was too small for the Nielsen Company to rate,

852
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: which means it reached less than twenty four thousand households

853
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: in the Los Angeles area. As result, in order to

854
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: chase notoriety and attention, he was forced to find weirder

855
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: and weirder guests for Hot Seat. One frequent attendee was

856
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: Odoris Urungus, the lead singer for Guar. Otoris loved. Tom

857
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: turns his head, odoris loved Wally tell him one interviewer. Honestly,

858
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: of all the talk shows we've been on, everything from

859
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: Springer to Joan Rivers to Jimmy Fallon, it was our

860
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: favorite one, that cheesy little public access show with that

861
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: weirdo Wally George. He kicked ass on all of those

862
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: other multimillion dollar, fucking Hollywood TV creation constructed human being Yuck.

863
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: Those people really made me sick.

864
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking gar I mean, I get why a man

865
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: who dresses up as a monster for a living would

866
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: enjoy being on Wally George's show.

867
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that was their whole thing.

868
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: They just wanted to offend people in chocko.

869
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get why Wally George and him

870
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: hit it off. Dexter Holland, lead singer of The Offspring,

871
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: was also a guest on The Wally George Show and

872
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: described it as punk, which I do think gets at

873
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: something important for many of his young fans, especially the Peel.

874
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: Wasn't that Wally was right wing. It was the rock

875
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: because they weren't. And it wasn't that they didn't hate

876
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: right wingers. They weren't left wing. They just didn't care

877
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: about politics. They liked that he was raucous, violent and unhinged,

878
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: and they liked that as members of his live audience,

879
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: they could be raucus violent and unhinged. They could scream

880
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: and shout at people and threaten them and sometimes even

881
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: get into fucking fights on the show. And there's more

882
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: than a little Wally George in the alt rights DNA,

883
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: like I don't care as much about the politics that

884
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: I'm claiming as I do about getting to offend you.

885
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: You know, that's Wally George and that's a big part

886
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: of modern conservatism. Now, other regular guests who sparred with

887
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Wally expressed a belief that he was not really conservative.

888
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: He was a showman first and foremost, and would happily

889
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: platform anyone fringe enough to be entertaining. Still, there was

890
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: more than a hint of lynch Mob to Wally's audience.

891
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: Nicolas Shrek, lead singer of Radio Werewolf, recalled it was

892
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: like Wally was a microcosm of Hollywood taking over politics.

893
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: In a way, it could seem harmless or like it

894
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: was just a joke, But when we were actually in

895
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: the studio and Wally was presenting me as a scapegoat

896
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: for societyal ills, the audience was whipped into a genuine frenzy.

897
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: They did not take it as a joke, and it

898
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: felt very dangerous to be there. It's easy to think

899
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: he was a humorous phenomenon, but it was part of

900
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: the whole. It was a very violent craziness to the

901
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: eighties that I don't think Americans can remember exactly how

902
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: it was. I went to a Ronald Reagan rally in

903
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four and I sensed that same inherent violence.

904
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: You know the novel Lord of the Flies, It reminded

905
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: me of that.

906
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 2: Yep, there's a lot in there. It feels a little relevant,

907
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,479
Speaker 2: doesn't it. Yeah, Nicholas Shrek onto something there.

908
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's yeah. Like I said, that's one of

909
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: the main things about watching that clip that was so

910
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: unpleasant and upsetting is is how close it is to

911
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: a lynch mob. It's just like he's a big goofball.

912
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: Like we had a lot of fun talking about how

913
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: ridiculous he looks, but like that is a.

914
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: Frightening there's no, yeah, nothing funny about absolutely not no

915
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: that I have.

916
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: I have gone toe to toe with more or less

917
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: that audience in the street with a bunch of weapons

918
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: on their side. It's the same fucking people. It's fair,

919
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: the same motivation, it's it's oh man, it's.

920
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: So it's so parallel to like Trump, because like Trump himself,

921
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 3: the man is a big stupid idiot that's ridiculous looking,

922
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: and you can just look at him.

923
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: You'd have just as easily been a Democrat if that

924
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 1: had been the easy way to get what he wanted.

925
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just a look at that big stupid asshole.

926
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 3: But then you look at the crowds that follow and

927
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 3: be like, oh, there's nothing funny about that.

928
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: Like, it's not at all humorous. No, it's just scary.

929
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: Wally's health started to fall apart in the early nineteen nineties.

930
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: By nineteen I know, tellm this is really going to

931
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: break your heart.

932
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: Brace yourself here, No, don't tell me. I can't take it.

933
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety three, he had to quit recording new

934
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: episodes of his show, but since Hot Seat had been

935
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 1: daily for like a decade, the show stayed in reruns

936
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: for another decade, and Wally would regularly record new introductions

937
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: and conclusions to various best of episodes. He died in

938
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: two thousand and three of pneumonia. Hmmm, so we have

939
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: a lot to thank cigarettes and pneumonia for but none

940
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: of them work fast enough.

941
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: Yep.

942
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: Satan called home another angel, another one of his glorious angels.

943
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: Speaking of Satan's angels, Tom, don't get any plugg ables

944
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: to plug.

945
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: That's the end.

946
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: That's the end of part too.

947
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: We gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we got we got

948
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: one more. We got one more in the chamber. Oh okay,

949
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: all ran a little longer, So all right, well.

950
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I run a podcast network with my buddy David Bell.

951
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: We we worked at Crack together.

952
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 3: If you want to head o a Patreon dot com

953
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: slash game for unemployed, you can support our network. We

954
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 3: do a bunch of free podcast Talker. We also do

955
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of exclusive podcasts just for patrons like uh

956
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: Foxholder's Maniac, Tom and Jeff watch Batman and start with

957
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: mis Futurama, So check that out if you would, please, Yeah,

958
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: assholes do it.

959
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

960
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

961
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,959
Speaker 2: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

962
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.