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Speaker 1: We are back for another edition of the Friedagg Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today I was joined by superintendent at Cedar Rapids Country Club,
Speaker 1: Tom Feller. Tom is a great guy. He's been there
Speaker 1: for just about eighteen years now and has done a
Speaker 1: ton of work transforming Cedar Rapids. Since he got there,
Speaker 1: They've made huge strides recently were noted on a list
Speaker 1: of the five best restoration projects in the last few
Speaker 1: years that I saw on golf dot com. Tom joins us.
Speaker 1: We talk about a ton of stuff, his background, how
Speaker 1: he got into it, and then his work at Cedar
Speaker 1: Rapids and some of the unique things they've done from
Speaker 1: tree management to also flood management, and just his general
Speaker 1: kind of practices. So, you know, again, a special thanks
Speaker 1: to Toro for making this Superintendent series possible. Excited by
Speaker 1: everybody's support and positive messages about the first one with
Speaker 1: Alex beson Crone that aired last month. We'll continue to
Speaker 1: have this be a monthly thing and we're excited to
Speaker 1: interview more and more superintendents here. So, without further ado,
Speaker 1: here is Tom Feller. I miss a green, for example,
Speaker 1: I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker,
Speaker 1: I'm really upset. And when I.
Speaker 2: Find my ball in a fried egg Frida egg, the
Speaker 2: dreaded Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg bride
Speaker 2: egg lie, I'm about ready to run.
Speaker 1: Off of the course. What do you have for breakfast
Speaker 1: this morning?
Speaker 2: I don't eat breakfast, really, no, what do you wait? Wait?
Speaker 2: I have a sixteen hour fast until lunch. No way daily. Yes,
Speaker 2: what time's lunch eleven to twelve, so.
Speaker 1: You get your full hour in Yes, what do you do?
Speaker 1: You drink coffee then in.
Speaker 2: The morning, I do drink coffee, coffee and water.
Speaker 1: Coffee and water. Yes, it's like and then, so you
Speaker 1: only eat lunch and dinner exactly. Really works for you, Huh.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it works for me, but I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: People say breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
Speaker 1: Maybe do you like breakfast food?
Speaker 2: Not necessarily No, No, Eggs just don't agree with me.
Speaker 2: So you know, I walk by it every morning to
Speaker 2: get my coffee in the convenience store and pass right
Speaker 2: past the egg biscuit.
Speaker 1: So you get coffee at the convenience store. I do
Speaker 1: every morning, every morning, same one, same one, roughly the
Speaker 1: same time.
Speaker 2: At roughly the same time it has. It changes a
Speaker 2: little bit in the winter time.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they know you there, they do know me there.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a block from my house. I should make
Speaker 2: it at home, but it's just too easy to stop
Speaker 2: and get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it saves you ten minutes, for sure, it does
Speaker 1: at that time in the morning. Yep, you're spending what
Speaker 1: you would be eating for breakfast, exactly right. So how
Speaker 1: often do you walk the golf course.
Speaker 2: During the season? At least three times a week. I
Speaker 2: find that it just, first of all, it gets me
Speaker 2: some exercise, which I enjoy. I can kind of follow
Speaker 2: up my staff in the morning as they go out
Speaker 2: check on things. You know, I can check on what
Speaker 2: is happening that's going right, and what's happening that's going wrong.
Speaker 1: Basically, you have like a time that you walk. I do.
Speaker 2: So normally we'll start the crew, my assistant will start
Speaker 2: the crew, and then we go we Normally I'll normally
Speaker 2: go out like six thirty and I know they go
Speaker 2: I'll change it up. But a lot of times I
Speaker 2: go backwards because I follow up on what they've gotten
Speaker 2: accomplished in the morning.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you'll go buck eighteen.
Speaker 2: Eighteen and go backwards and you're looking at what they're doing,
Speaker 2: and then exactly and then kind of you know, helping
Speaker 2: my assistants line up the second job for the day.
Speaker 1: What uh, what's one thing that you've noticed on like
Speaker 1: one of these walks that sticks out.
Speaker 2: You know, It's it's amazing just even the simple things
Speaker 2: that don't get accomplished. You know, you tell your tea
Speaker 2: service crew or a tea service man or woman to
Speaker 2: fill the dibbots and pick up the t's and clean
Speaker 2: up the entire tea complex, and you find that they're
Speaker 2: just filling half the dibots, or you follow up your
Speaker 2: pin setting guy and you know, you tell them that,
Speaker 2: you know, I recommend ten to twelve feet from the
Speaker 2: from the collar, but it's got you know, he's eight
Speaker 2: feet from the collar on some certain pins. So you
Speaker 2: notice things that just you went notice. It's not a
Speaker 2: quick drive around on the golf course. Basically, it's daily setup,
Speaker 2: I would say more than anything. Nothing ever, like really big,
Speaker 2: nothing earth shattering, no.
Speaker 1: But it gives you a feel for the golf course.
Speaker 2: It does, I mean, and I enjoyed this. I enjoy
Speaker 2: walking just because of you know, I love setup. You know,
Speaker 2: the morning set up, the T blocks set perfectly, the
Speaker 2: rakes and the bunkers, you know where they're set around
Speaker 2: the bunker. You know, there's a set arrangement for everything
Speaker 2: that we have, and it's just kind of nice to
Speaker 2: follow up with those kind of things.
Speaker 1: What's your set arrangement for the bunkers?
Speaker 2: Typically the rakes go parallel to the fairway and outside
Speaker 2: the bunker, outside outside, and they should normally they'll be
Speaker 2: on you know, the outside edge of the fairway.
Speaker 1: So I feel like that's some kind of a big
Speaker 1: hot topic.
Speaker 2: It is, I would agree.
Speaker 1: Everybody does it a little different.
Speaker 2: Along with your membership. Regardless of the rule, they will
Speaker 2: leave them in the bunker, out of the bunker, or
Speaker 2: across the fairway. It just depends on what kind of shot.
Speaker 1: There is that your pet peeve, the bunker rake leaving
Speaker 1: the way they leave.
Speaker 2: My biggest pet peeve and all my all the people
Speaker 2: that have worked for me will say, it's how to
Speaker 2: set the tea blocks up. I can't. I just every
Speaker 2: time we set up te blocks, and every time I'm
Speaker 2: on the tee, I will at least move a third
Speaker 2: of the t blocks because I just like to change
Speaker 2: the setup from day to day. And a lot of
Speaker 2: times they'll either move them like a foot or two
Speaker 2: in front or a foot or two and back. And
Speaker 2: so the guys that are playing every day, I would
Speaker 2: rather have them play a different golf course every day
Speaker 2: than the same yardage from day to day.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. So like you move them drastically different.
Speaker 2: I do, and even to sometimes different teas. I mean,
Speaker 2: just to change the setup.
Speaker 1: I think that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you it?
Speaker 1: What's the most crazy you've gotten? Have you ever moved
Speaker 1: one a back t in front of a different tea?
Speaker 2: I've I've moved a back t all the way to
Speaker 2: the forward t. So it'll play from one fifty five
Speaker 2: and we'll drop down to one ten. And as long
Speaker 2: as you know, from the handicamp standpoint, as long as
Speaker 2: you're the same with the other te blocks, I think
Speaker 2: you're okay.
Speaker 1: So that all the other box would have to move
Speaker 1: move up for also, that's I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like changing it up. And I and
Speaker 2: my assistants always give me such a hard time because
Speaker 2: they'll go set up. I'll even have them set up
Speaker 2: and they'll get in and then I'll come in, you know,
Speaker 2: an hour later after you walk on the cars and
Speaker 2: I'll be like, well, how many blocks did you move?
Speaker 2: It's just one of my biggest pet peeves.
Speaker 1: One of the best things is to have day to
Speaker 1: day variety. I agree, and it's amazing because people are
Speaker 1: creatures a habit. They just hate change. Do you ever
Speaker 1: get members that push back when you move something way up.
Speaker 2: Oh, we've had comments on it like must you know either,
Speaker 2: you know, especially on te blocks if you move them
Speaker 2: to a different tea, they'll be like, well, it must
Speaker 2: have had a new guy start today where I was
Speaker 2: the one that did it, you know, those type of things.
Speaker 2: But the pin places are what they really get. You know,
Speaker 2: if you get kind of crazy with the pin placements
Speaker 2: from day to day, they they'll comment on that, how
Speaker 2: it must have been a bad night last night for
Speaker 2: the superintendent.
Speaker 1: You know, No, no, you know, everybody's always got an opinion,
Speaker 1: they exactly. And most people that are members of country
Speaker 1: clubs are very successful in life, so they, you know,
Speaker 1: there used to being the opinion that matters most of
Speaker 1: most of their life's activities.
Speaker 2: I would agree with that one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: How did you get into turf and becoming a golf
Speaker 1: super did you? Were you a golfer growing up? Or so?
Speaker 2: I grew up in small town island northeast corner of
Speaker 2: Iowa in Wakan and we grew up a block away
Speaker 2: from the nine hole golf course that was in town,
Speaker 2: and I basically was the superintendent's nightmare up there. I
Speaker 2: was out at six point thirty in the morning, playing
Speaker 2: in the dew, wondering why the greens weren't cut, wondering
Speaker 2: why irarified greens one day. So I started with that
Speaker 2: and then went from you know the time when I
Speaker 2: played played high school golf for my freshman year on
Speaker 2: and then worked in a city park just for something
Speaker 2: to do. And so I just loved working outside, and
Speaker 2: I started working in the park when I was fifteen
Speaker 2: and worked actually till my second year of college until
Speaker 2: I moved out of Wakan and just enjoyed being outside
Speaker 2: and actually was going to teach, and so I was
Speaker 2: going to went on a state university for as a
Speaker 2: math major, and got to my finally my third year
Speaker 2: through my third year to where I had to sign
Speaker 2: up for student teaching and decided I didn't want to
Speaker 2: do it. And so actually I just heard about this
Speaker 2: turf program down in Myrtle Beach or in Conway, South Carolina,
Speaker 2: and so decided to pick up and bolt down to
Speaker 2: South South Carolina and attend oor Georgetown Technical College.
Speaker 1: You were always an early riser.
Speaker 2: Always an early riser being now where.
Speaker 1: You were the person that was out with the crew early,
Speaker 1: and you know, wondering why stuff wasn't mode and everything
Speaker 1: in terms of how you would communicate with membership that
Speaker 1: wants to get out earlier. Golfers say you were a
Speaker 1: public course and golfers that want to get out early
Speaker 1: and push, What kind of effect does that have on
Speaker 1: your crew if you're you know, being disrupted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't even say what. I won't say what
Speaker 2: it has to do with the crew as much as
Speaker 2: what it has to do with the membership, because they're
Speaker 2: just they're not getting the conditions that they deserve. If
Speaker 2: we're getting pushed on the golf course too early, so
Speaker 2: you know they're out playing and the bunkers aren't getting raged.
Speaker 2: We can't stay ahead of them with the greens mares.
Speaker 2: You know, when I lived in Myrtle Beach, I worked
Speaker 2: at a resort course called Arcadian Shores, and I mean
Speaker 2: we were one hole ahead of the golfers every morning
Speaker 2: that we work there. And they just don't get the quality.
Speaker 2: The just don't get the quality that they deserve, is
Speaker 2: a way I feel now. I realize there's a definite
Speaker 2: revenue base there versus you know, we have a dues base.
Speaker 2: So it's like for a private club, I think you
Speaker 2: deserve better.
Speaker 1: And for some people if they're like they guess stuff
Speaker 1: going on at home, they're just the mission of the
Speaker 1: round early in the morning is just to get done
Speaker 1: as fast as possible.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we still have trouble. I mean they started
Speaker 2: at six thirty here on Saturday mornings, and we'll have
Speaker 2: guys get done at nine.
Speaker 1: So you guys are starting in the dark.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, four five, five o'clock and we run off
Speaker 2: the front and back just to keep ahead of them.
Speaker 1: M How long did you live in Myrtle Beach then?
Speaker 2: Is there two years?
Speaker 1: How how was working down there? Did you then come
Speaker 1: back up to I did so.
Speaker 2: I went from Myrtle Beach to Quincy Comfort Club in Quincy, Illinois.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what was it like, you know with Bermuda
Speaker 1: and obviously you know, Myrtle Beach the probably most rounds
Speaker 1: per capita of any place in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy, Uh, I would First of all,
Speaker 2: I was there when Hurricane Hugo came through, so we had,
Speaker 2: you know, a thousand trees I went down. I mean
Speaker 2: it was a whole different ball game. The first year
Speaker 2: I was there was prior to prior to Hugo and
Speaker 2: you know, it's a little more enjoyable, I would say,
Speaker 2: but you still are dealing with bermuda. We had old
Speaker 2: pen cross mint grass, greens that were just struggled. You know,
Speaker 2: you had issues, salt water issues, salt issues in the water.
Speaker 2: You had. It was just and bermuda was basically just
Speaker 2: such a weed. I mean that's what I figured it. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, we'd edge bunkers and they had I think,
Speaker 2: you know, I might have this number wrong, but I
Speaker 2: should know. It hit over eighty bunkers and they were
Speaker 2: huge bunkers, and you get done edging them and you
Speaker 2: just turn around and start edging them again. It was
Speaker 2: the most defeating deal on the whole golf course. Defeating job.
Speaker 1: So you were there the two years you were getting
Speaker 1: the degree, you were working, and you were going to
Speaker 1: school at the same time. Yes, what kind of like
Speaker 1: what was your schedule like then early morning? Then you'd
Speaker 1: go to school after you're done.
Speaker 2: Or the beauty of their program is they they basically
Speaker 2: had you in a job before you even had your
Speaker 2: class schedule. So you would get your you would get
Speaker 2: your job, and then you'd work your class schedule around it.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I had quite a few credits already when I got
Speaker 2: down there, so I really had a pretty easy life
Speaker 2: down there as far as school went. So I worked
Speaker 2: thirty hours a week and then went to school also,
Speaker 2: you know, but they really on the job experience is huge.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they really stress that. And you know,
Speaker 2: I worked for a superintendent assistant assistant down there. The
Speaker 2: assistant was from storm Lake, Iowa, so that was kind
Speaker 2: of our connection. So a lot of the Iowa guys
Speaker 2: went to that golf course. So it was kind of cool.
Speaker 1: As as somebody now that hires, you know, young assistant superintendent.
Speaker 1: It's different. How do you how do you value education versus,
Speaker 1: you know, the versus you know, on the job training
Speaker 1: versus because obviously you've got superintendents that run the gamut
Speaker 1: of technical two year degrees to you know masters.
Speaker 2: Sure, you know, I wouldn't put you know, I had
Speaker 2: a two year degree and then I went and finished
Speaker 2: my four year degree just from a mark, He's just
Speaker 2: from my own professional I just wanted to do it,
Speaker 2: just to have it. And I would encourage guys now
Speaker 2: to get their four year degree just because of the
Speaker 2: market the way it is but really, from my standpoint,
Speaker 2: for an assistant, you know, you want them to have
Speaker 2: at least I would want them to have at least
Speaker 2: a two year degree. But having the work ethic is
Speaker 2: what I'd really be looking for and being willing to learn.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's really what I look for. It's it's
Speaker 2: not the guy that just wants to come in for
Speaker 2: forty hours a week and collect his paycheck and not
Speaker 2: be able to broaden his horizons a little bit and
Speaker 2: not see the big picture. I mean, I just want
Speaker 2: somebody that really wants to dive in, enjoy what they do,
Speaker 2: and learn to be able to move on. What.
Speaker 1: How's you've been here for eighteen years? How's the hiring
Speaker 1: and labor changed in that time?
Speaker 2: You know, I've from my standpoint, I haven't had too
Speaker 2: many issues. We've always had. I guess I've always had
Speaker 2: a good assistant base and always have had through my
Speaker 2: my kids through the high schools have always brought me help,
Speaker 2: it seems like, so I've utilized them. They're those two
Speaker 2: of my both my son and daughter, as a resource
Speaker 2: to get into the public school, into the you know,
Speaker 2: public school system, and once you get it moving and
Speaker 2: they enjoy their job and it just seems like they
Speaker 2: just want to keep coming in. So I've really been fortunate.
Speaker 2: I mean I haven't had up here especially, I haven't
Speaker 2: had any issues with labor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what a job outside. I caddied growing up,
Speaker 1: and I would work. I've are the superintendent of the
Speaker 1: course I grew up at. So I was trying to
Speaker 1: get me to do the grounds thing, but I was
Speaker 1: I was caddying and working backroom. But I mean, it's
Speaker 1: nothing like being on a golf course early in the morning.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the best way to start your day.
Speaker 2: And like and I'm flexible with the staff. You know,
Speaker 2: I hire enough guys that you can you know, you know,
Speaker 2: they got to go on a summer vacation. You know,
Speaker 2: they're going to have to have a long weekend to
Speaker 2: do things. So I'm flexible as long as we can
Speaker 2: have coverage for when they're gone, and we make it enjoyable.
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, I know a lot of
Speaker 2: the staff that comes in I enjoyed because they come
Speaker 2: from all, you know, all different backgrounds, and they're you know,
Speaker 2: they're going to college or going to be engineers, are
Speaker 2: going to be doctors. They got all different types of
Speaker 2: you know, professions are going to go into so it
Speaker 2: really brings it's really kind of fun to see them
Speaker 2: move on in life.
Speaker 1: Also, it's it's got to be the seasonality those tough
Speaker 1: because then they go back to school and it is
Speaker 1: I still.
Speaker 2: Need work and for sure, I mean that's one of
Speaker 2: the tougher things are. You know, like the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, our spring and fall have been such a disaster.
Speaker 2: It seems like, you know, late spring, early fall, so
Speaker 2: you know, you haven't noticed it as much from a
Speaker 2: from a from a plane standpoint. I don't think the
Speaker 2: membership is known as you know I do, but it's
Speaker 2: we don't even have any golfer because you know, the
Speaker 2: heisman forty and the lows are twenty. So it's like
Speaker 2: you just don't notice it. But on a normal season
Speaker 2: you'd want to. We need definitely need more seasonal help,
Speaker 2: you know, the shoulder seasons, especially.
Speaker 1: When when you go from you know, full staff in
Speaker 1: the summer and you say you lose your your the
Speaker 1: high school kids and you're a little shorter. What what
Speaker 1: are the areas of maintenance that go from like that?
Speaker 1: Are the nice to haves that get kind of cut definitely.
Speaker 2: You know, bunkers are probably number one. I mean we
Speaker 2: go from raking them every day to raking them twice
Speaker 2: a week. You know, we're spinning them with a bunker
Speaker 2: rake versus hand raking them. We go from walk bowing
Speaker 2: greens to ride mowing. You know, I'd say those are
Speaker 2: the things that I notice the most, and especially on
Speaker 2: with the green complexes that we have. When you put
Speaker 2: a rider on them, you almost have to just back
Speaker 2: up and mow and back up and mo. You can't
Speaker 2: really turn on them. So otherwise it's caused too much
Speaker 2: damage of the collars, so you just notice some damage
Speaker 2: around col you know, you give up a little bit
Speaker 2: of the quality. When you definitely get to that time of.
Speaker 1: The year, I imagine it's a little bit tougher to
Speaker 1: get it all the way out to the corners absolutely right, exactly,
Speaker 1: so you get run the risk of a little shrink.
Speaker 2: Right, So in the spring every year in the spring
Speaker 2: we get out and cut them back out, get things
Speaker 2: back out to the edge.
Speaker 1: How do you keep track of where they were? Do
Speaker 1: you do you like have them mapped or is there
Speaker 1: a way that.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm very I just mark them. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just go back out and I do it probably
Speaker 2: four times a year with this paint.
Speaker 1: Well, you're walking all that and I see it. You know.
Speaker 2: I'm very active on the golf course. I mean, I
Speaker 2: love being out there and seeing.
Speaker 1: Do you play a lot?
Speaker 2: I don't, but I would like to again. At some
Speaker 2: point I'm going.
Speaker 1: To mentally, you could play while you're walking, Yes, I could.
Speaker 1: It's probably the best way to play golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've played. I think I played five
Speaker 2: times last year, so yeah, and I played here twice.
Speaker 2: So I enjoy going other places and playing. But I
Speaker 2: find myself when I play here it's just too much work.
Speaker 2: And that's just all I do is think about I
Speaker 2: can't believe we miss that. I can't believe. You know,
Speaker 2: it's good for you. But it's also when I play golf.
Speaker 2: I like to enjoy the game, and I like to
Speaker 2: look at you know. I love to go to other
Speaker 2: courses and see what they're doing and get the full experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's beneficial in the sense of like
Speaker 1: seeing how the playing surface is reacting right exactly and
Speaker 1: how different things are working, I would agree. And then
Speaker 1: but then going and seeing other people.
Speaker 2: Stuff is good too, right, There's so many, so many
Speaker 2: good superintendents around and so many good clubs. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, you never get around to all of them.
Speaker 2: But the connection we have with everybody, and what's nice
Speaker 2: about our professions. They always welcome you in. So you know,
Speaker 2: you can make a phone call to them and say, hey,
Speaker 2: do you care about come out and see your property
Speaker 2: and play it. And they're like, you know, just like
Speaker 2: I am to them. You know, I love to have
Speaker 2: them in.
Speaker 1: Do you talk a lot with super times in the area.
Speaker 1: I do. And you help each other out.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, we even you know, especially in town
Speaker 2: and around town. We share equipment a lot of times.
Speaker 2: But just advice and what people have done. And you
Speaker 2: know what social media these days, you know, everybody's on
Speaker 2: Twitter and Instagram. You can see a lot of what's
Speaker 2: going on. If you notice something that find interesting, I
Speaker 2: just call them and say, hey, what what can you
Speaker 2: elaborate a little bit more on what you're doing with this?
Speaker 1: What's it? An example of that?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's everything. It's just even ways
Speaker 2: guys rafi fairways these days and drag the cores And
Speaker 2: I mean I saw some guy I think it was
Speaker 2: Rick Tagmarindi Morrin who's using palettes for a dragmat versus
Speaker 2: you know, a steel dragmat, because he said it was
Speaker 2: less aggressive. It's just simple little things that you wouldn't
Speaker 2: think of doing.
Speaker 1: You know, did you start using the palette?
Speaker 2: I did not, But we didn't get our fairways erified
Speaker 2: yet this fall either.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: I imagine in terms of Twitter's change and social media
Speaker 1: has changed the superintendent industry a ton right exactly, because
Speaker 1: it's one of those you know, people lament social media
Speaker 1: so much, but the ability to share and spread information
Speaker 1: and knowledge is at an unparalleled height.
Speaker 2: Now, oh for sure. I mean I scroll through and
Speaker 2: you can, and you know, you do it in the
Speaker 2: evenings when you just kind of boor it anyway and
Speaker 2: just roll through it and find something interesting and it's
Speaker 2: amazing what you can pick out.
Speaker 1: Do you go to like the GIS Show? I do
Speaker 1: every year every year, and then you get to meet
Speaker 1: all your new internet friends.
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, wait, I know most of them. I've been
Speaker 2: in the business for thirty years.
Speaker 1: That's how my wife like, who are you talking to?
Speaker 1: I'm like, God, just an Internet front. It's become like
Speaker 1: a normal thing. It's kind of it's wild though, it is,
Speaker 1: it really is. Yeah, it's cool because I see it.
Speaker 1: You just you learn so much like there are all
Speaker 1: these you know, accounts that pop up and all the
Speaker 1: old photos, and then you see the way people are
Speaker 1: doing it, experimenting with grass types in different parts of
Speaker 1: the country, and it's really unbelievable because you know, now
Speaker 1: there's a way to say to see, oh, this guy's
Speaker 1: trying this. We were thinking about this, correct, and this
Speaker 1: guy's trying this or this, you know, and oh here
Speaker 1: I can just shoot him a message and see how
Speaker 1: it's going before you try it and maybe waste a
Speaker 1: bunch of time.
Speaker 2: Right, I would agree one hundred percent. Yea, it makes it.
Speaker 2: It definitely makes it easier.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So when you were at Quincy, did you
Speaker 1: start as assistant there? I did, and it worked your
Speaker 1: way up.
Speaker 2: I was the assistant for two years under Randy van Fleet,
Speaker 2: and then Randy left for Meryl Hills, and then they
Speaker 2: promoted me to the superintendent MARYL.
Speaker 1: Hills in Wisconsin in Waukeshaw. Yeah this year. Oh right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a cool property. It is.
Speaker 2: He's been there well a long time, Nock, he's been
Speaker 2: there series Probably I'm.
Speaker 1: Trying to figure out who designed that golf course. It's
Speaker 1: not Langford, but it's very length for it to ask.
Speaker 2: Is it okay? Yeah, I've only been on at one
Speaker 2: time and that was early when he first moved up there.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be like Harry Smeeter or
Speaker 1: Joe Roseman, but it's it's that places got a ton
Speaker 1: of ton of potential. That's it's neat. Well, you should
Speaker 1: go out there next time you're in there. Now for
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Speaker 1: Tom Feller, what was it like going from assistant to
Speaker 1: head superintendent at a club versus your experience when you
Speaker 1: went from Quincy here as moving from head to head,
Speaker 1: what was different about that experience?
Speaker 2: I think time just flew going from assistant to superintendent
Speaker 2: because you were so I was so young. I was
Speaker 2: twenty six when I got the job, and I felt
Speaker 2: like I was just really in my mind, I was
Speaker 2: ready for it, but really I didn't have the experience.
Speaker 2: So I was learning on the fly a lot of times.
Speaker 2: And my poor assistant, Tim knows the superintendent down there,
Speaker 2: so he's deal with a lot of my He's finding
Speaker 2: a lot of things that I did. But I said,
Speaker 2: just remember how early in my career that was. But
Speaker 2: you know, Quincy was very supportive of everything we did,
Speaker 2: and you know, we didn't really we didn't really change
Speaker 2: a lot of things. We didn't go into through any
Speaker 2: real restoration. We did a lot of clean up, and
Speaker 2: you know, we regret we redid bunkers, but it was
Speaker 2: just taking sand out retile and we're putting the sand
Speaker 2: back and so there wasn't It's like we were making
Speaker 2: changes architectural changes to the course. So it was a
Speaker 2: it was a good job, but I you know, I'm
Speaker 2: definitely a better planner after I moved here. Definitely learned
Speaker 2: a lot. It was you know, it's it's a whole,
Speaker 2: it was a whole different ball game. Coming from superintendent
Speaker 2: to my second job versus the assistant to the superintendent
Speaker 2: I met.
Speaker 1: What was the what was something that you look back
Speaker 1: and laugh about, like that you something you did that
Speaker 1: a process you had that like some.
Speaker 2: Of the drain tile I did. It was just horrendous,
Speaker 2: but just way too shallow. And yeah, I look back,
Speaker 2: I'm like, could and he's ripping that some of that
Speaker 2: up right now, so I'm I'm hearing it from him.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I hope he doesn't find that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a superintendent I know said that he ran into
Speaker 1: ran into a superintendent that had been at the club.
Speaker 1: He was at like forty years earlier, and the guy.
Speaker 1: The first thing the guy said was I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: have to apologize. I'm sorry. And he's like for what?
Speaker 1: And he was like, I planted four thousand silver maples.
Speaker 1: He's like, it was my first job. I didn't know
Speaker 1: what I was doing. The club president said, plant these,
Speaker 1: and I planted up well.
Speaker 2: And we had a tree nursery, which the club already
Speaker 2: had probably fifteen hundred so were maples. So I don't
Speaker 2: know why we need a tree nursery, but we had
Speaker 2: we had a tree nursery and Quincy. Then I came
Speaker 2: the property. I could say I learned something because then
Speaker 2: I moved here and we cut down the tree nursery.
Speaker 1: So you know, see they had a tree nursery here too,
Speaker 1: they did. So what was the idea? Was it? You
Speaker 1: you took saplings or little trees and grew them to
Speaker 1: a certain height and then moved them and planted them.
Speaker 2: Correct in any gap there was Oh my god, yeah
Speaker 2: that was That was a system here in Quincy. That
Speaker 2: really wasn't the system. They just want us to have
Speaker 2: trees because they had. They just want to have us
Speaker 2: to have a nursery because they had so many silver maples,
Speaker 2: and you know, every year you get storms and you'd
Speaker 2: lose you know, ten or twelve, so they'd want us
Speaker 2: to plant twenty for those ten. You know.
Speaker 1: Basically, it's a crazy thing because for a long time,
Speaker 1: trees were considered like a sign of a country club,
Speaker 1: like the public courses didn't have trees. It was like
Speaker 1: a nice to half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree, see you came here.
Speaker 1: Then it would have been two thousand, two thousand or
Speaker 1: two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: Two thousand and two, two thousand, January first.
Speaker 1: Okay, And I mean, did you want to get back
Speaker 1: to Iowa? Was there you know, or was it this
Speaker 1: job came up and.
Speaker 2: You know it was Yeah, I was a starting interview
Speaker 2: I was in Quincy for twelve years ten as is superintendent.
Speaker 2: So it was time I felt like my family was
Speaker 2: at the right stage of the game to move my
Speaker 2: kids and you know, just getting to the point where
Speaker 2: I just didn't know where else I could go with
Speaker 2: that with that job, so I was I started interviewing
Speaker 2: at places and actually had interviewed at Asheville in Asheville,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, so I really didn't have I want to
Speaker 2: go to a nice private country.
Speaker 1: Club and uh one without Bermuda.
Speaker 2: And one without Bermuda, And so that was up in
Speaker 2: the mountains enough that you know, it was like three
Speaker 2: thousand feet.
Speaker 1: That was good.
Speaker 2: It was all bad. Actually they had Bermuda fairways and
Speaker 2: they wanted to move to bent and so that's why
Speaker 2: they're interested in me. And then actually Cedar Rapids opened
Speaker 2: up right after that job, so yeah, I figured I
Speaker 2: was never ever going to get this close to home.
Speaker 1: So what in terms of you come to Cedar Rapids
Speaker 1: and what's the first year a couple of years like
Speaker 1: are you are you just kind of learning everything about
Speaker 1: the club, like how's the transition into a new club?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, you know, they they really wanted to just
Speaker 2: they was tired of it being green and lush and
Speaker 2: just heavily forested.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They want some better playability. They wanted to dry out.
Speaker 2: I was always a guy that pushed it to the edge.
Speaker 2: Even in Quincy. I pushed it way to the edge.
Speaker 2: So I think they really wanted better golfing conditions to
Speaker 2: start with. And then they really wanted to go into
Speaker 2: a restoration and start interviewing architects. So that really caught
Speaker 2: my interest too, because I like to keep I'm a
Speaker 2: busy guy. I like to keep busy with especially with
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So I knew that the turf was,
Speaker 2: it was healthy, it was green, it was lush. I
Speaker 2: just needed, you know, rework the programs and maintenance programs
Speaker 2: to where we could dry it out. And it was
Speaker 2: an educational process just to get the membership to understand
Speaker 2: we're not going to be green and lush anymore. And
Speaker 2: so you know, I always said the browns and new Green.
Speaker 2: I didn't push it that hard, but they would they
Speaker 2: kind of wondered what were what route we're heading? So
Speaker 2: I had to do a lot of communication.
Speaker 1: I would say, were when we're like the agronomically, what
Speaker 1: were the toughest things that you face coming in? Took
Speaker 1: play in trying to push to get to where you
Speaker 1: wanted it.
Speaker 2: It was so lush. I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 2: much fertility threw on it. I really didn't have any
Speaker 2: records of his fertility, but I couldn't not get the
Speaker 2: plant to stop growing, and so it was almost before
Speaker 2: you know, the growth regulators were out, you know, the
Speaker 2: good ones anyway, So once we could start, once I
Speaker 2: finally went through you know, three years of not for
Speaker 2: no fertility on fairways especially, we finally got into thin
Speaker 2: out and lean up.
Speaker 1: A little bit, like was there a lot of thatch
Speaker 1: in organic?
Speaker 2: So we had to go into heavy gerification and then
Speaker 2: just slow the plant down.
Speaker 1: What when you're going through what was heavier erification schedule?
Speaker 2: I mean for us was twice a year just heavy glorification,
Speaker 2: big one, the big ones, you know, three quarter to
Speaker 2: seven eighths and it's times and just in the needst
Speaker 2: chop him up and blow everything off, you know, and
Speaker 2: so you just do that spring and fall is when
Speaker 2: we would do it.
Speaker 1: And how how many years did it take to get
Speaker 1: to a point where you really felt good about I'd.
Speaker 2: Say by the fourth year we were we had it
Speaker 2: pretty much under control, and then we could start going
Speaker 2: into my own program. As far as you know, my
Speaker 2: heavy fertility of maybe a pound a year of.
Speaker 1: Much much the local fertilizer probably was unhappy, No, he
Speaker 1: was not happy. It's it's the club in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two was pretty ahead of the curve for wanting
Speaker 1: that type of playing condition and looking at restoration. What
Speaker 1: what would you say would you attribute to that? And
Speaker 1: it's you know, particular surprising given you know somewhere right
Speaker 1: across right next to our National Golf Links probably has
Speaker 1: a much higher chance to you know then you know
Speaker 1: in the central central Iowa where you know, there's no
Speaker 1: landmark club to judge like in many ways, Cedar rap
Speaker 1: is probably the landmark club that all courses around it
Speaker 1: looked too.
Speaker 2: Sure. I would say that had a really strong green
Speaker 2: committee at that time. They traveled well. They understood that
Speaker 2: we were the only ross course in the state of Iowa.
Speaker 2: They thought that I don't think they understood it to
Speaker 2: the way we did it this time, but you know,
Speaker 2: this past this finally getting through the restoration. I don't
Speaker 2: think they were that far into it, but they understood
Speaker 2: that we needed to get back to that old ross look,
Speaker 2: classic feel. And then they brought in Brad Kline to
Speaker 2: He assessed the course in like two thousand and I
Speaker 2: think he wrote a pretty strong report on what we
Speaker 2: could really be, which I think, you know, probably got
Speaker 2: people interested anyway, for the most part. To be honest,
Speaker 2: it was a Greens committee. Nobody else the membership didn't understand.
Speaker 2: They just felt like, it's a parkland setting. It's supposed
Speaker 2: to be soft and slow, and it's beautiful, it's green,
Speaker 2: it's striped up real nice today. You know, they just
Speaker 2: didn't understand what it could be.
Speaker 1: So talking through the early days, you come in, you
Speaker 1: got you inherit green course, very lush, probably lots of
Speaker 1: water put down on it, lots of trees. You start
Speaker 1: making changes. What was the initial reaction like.
Speaker 2: Oh, we had some definite kickback. I mean there was
Speaker 2: you know, why, you know, why aren't you watering what?
Speaker 2: You know, we have an irrigation system. It's and then
Speaker 2: we put a new irrigation system in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: and they're like, you don't even use it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I said, well, it's just the way. I mean, think
Speaker 2: about how it's playing today. We're not killing the grass.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the turf's in great shape like you
Speaker 2: can want it to be. You know. It was definitely
Speaker 2: I had to improve the communication, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: We sent out a lot of emails to explain what
Speaker 2: we were doing because otherwise it just and the problem
Speaker 2: is those same people don't read the emails or they
Speaker 2: don't want to understand it, you know, so they just
Speaker 2: you know, and we removed all the flowerbeds. And I
Speaker 2: mean they had a flower bed on every tea in
Speaker 2: the coming out of the trees. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: interesting how they had I mean they had flowers planted
Speaker 2: in these holes on the side of trees.
Speaker 1: It was like, so we ripped out that, you know,
Speaker 1: those just in terms of those flower beds, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just moved into a house and we planted flowers and
Speaker 1: I had to take care of the flowers all summer.
Speaker 1: Like it was not easy. Like in terms of a
Speaker 1: maintenance crew, what for flower beds, that's a lot of
Speaker 1: hours of maintenance over the course of a year, right.
Speaker 2: Well, you have a full time horticulturist and then the
Speaker 2: flowers on top of that. You know, it's seventy five
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year just in labor and in the
Speaker 2: flowers itself. And I know it's beautiful, you know we
Speaker 2: have around the clubhouse. It's beautiful right now. But we're
Speaker 2: doing it for you know, eighteen thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1: I mean that's I mean an the amount of work
Speaker 1: you could get done with that money on the golf course,
Speaker 1: which is why everybody joined here exactly is you know,
Speaker 1: it's just huge difference.
Speaker 2: I would agree.
Speaker 1: So you sent out a lot of emails. Did you
Speaker 1: try anything else in terms of communication?
Speaker 2: You know, I'd just be around the membership, you know,
Speaker 2: I just try to make myself more visible. I guess
Speaker 2: during those times anyway.
Speaker 1: How did it start to change? As you guys kept
Speaker 1: going and you've got years into your work, I.
Speaker 2: Did just start to enjoy the golf course, like, Wow,
Speaker 2: I'm hitting my drive two fifty instead of two hundred.
Speaker 2: This is kind of crazy, you know. I just I
Speaker 2: feel like that's the game change for them. A little
Speaker 2: bit they started to enjoy it and see that Boyd
Speaker 2: is making a difference. And then you get a rain,
Speaker 2: and you know the rain would green things up, but
Speaker 2: yet you wouldn't be flooded because of it being too wet.
Speaker 2: So you know, as you drive things out, at least
Speaker 2: you could take an inch and shaff a rain without
Speaker 2: any problem because the water would just move right through.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be already soggy from irrigation cycle after irrigation
Speaker 2: cycle after irrigation cycle.
Speaker 1: I imagine. Then also getting people used to seeing grass
Speaker 1: that's not really green absolutely just where spots aren't perfect.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, it's almost like the justification, yes,
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: You guys then underwent doing you know, the full blown
Speaker 1: renovation in what year.
Speaker 2: Was it twenty twelve? We approved the plan proved and
Speaker 2: then started in thirteen.
Speaker 1: What was the process like that you guys went through
Speaker 1: and getting to that point before that you were ready
Speaker 1: to pick an architect and the club was ready to
Speaker 1: jump in.
Speaker 2: Jump in, so we had we hosted town hall meetings
Speaker 2: to educate the membership. I'd say that was our number
Speaker 2: one communication, you know, and then just moving forward with
Speaker 2: trying to We picked up out three holes to start
Speaker 2: with that they were the most visible from the clubhouse,
Speaker 2: So we started on one, four, and ten and that
Speaker 2: way we figured that would make the biggest impact from
Speaker 2: from the membership standpoint. And then they want to move forward,
Speaker 2: and I think we were correct in all of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it started small, It wasn't None of them were
Speaker 1: crazy changes either. Right as you know you and it's
Speaker 1: like you're kind of getting uncomfortable with everything.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: So in terms of you guys, uh were are working
Speaker 1: can continue to work with Ron Pritchard and Tyler Ray?
Speaker 1: What was it about what they brought to the table
Speaker 1: versus you know, the other architects that you looked at
Speaker 1: that you guys that made you feel really comfortable?
Speaker 2: I think they just you know, Ron was very good
Speaker 2: when he came in for the presentation. Of course, his
Speaker 2: background was excellent. The courses we visited that he that
Speaker 2: he had finished looked, We're great from start to finish.
Speaker 2: Everybody we talked to at the clubs that he that
Speaker 2: he had finished or he had restored, were very complimentary
Speaker 2: of Ron and then Tyler, you know, just being able
Speaker 2: to work with Ron. I think it was just like
Speaker 2: when when said, you know, relationship for us, and we
Speaker 2: all felt good about the situation with Ron, and for
Speaker 2: a guy to come in and just give you his
Speaker 2: hand drawings, I mean it's pretty cool, you know, in
Speaker 2: this in today's world, I mean, you're not gonna get
Speaker 2: a lot of computer work out of him. But but
Speaker 2: on the on his drawings were really cool.
Speaker 1: You know. It's uh. So you guys went and visited
Speaker 1: some other Ross courses and a lot of did you
Speaker 1: do that with other architects that you looked at too?
Speaker 2: We did not. We basically just went off, you know,
Speaker 2: I think they all drew a hole for us and
Speaker 2: what they would what they visioned for a hole on
Speaker 2: the golf course and present on that to us. And
Speaker 2: then we ended up going with Ron and so we
Speaker 2: once we you know, visited his courses. That's kind of
Speaker 2: where we ended up.
Speaker 1: And and you guys went about you know, you see
Speaker 1: so many of the big name restoration renovations. Now you
Speaker 1: see your course is shut it down for two years,
Speaker 1: and you guys, you guys didn't shut down. You've done
Speaker 1: it over four years.
Speaker 2: Roughly, you know, it was a three year but the
Speaker 2: roughest part was over three years.
Speaker 1: Three, So you did it over three years, and you know,
Speaker 1: you did it for a dollar amount that you know,
Speaker 1: most clubs would you know, be amazed at how how
Speaker 1: did you guys a do it for such a low cost,
Speaker 1: I mean under a million dollars to basically get a
Speaker 1: brand new golf course.
Speaker 2: I mean it was a lot of you know, basically
Speaker 2: we started with Tyler being able to shape everything and
Speaker 2: then my staff being able to be hands on during
Speaker 2: the whole project. So we did in the older months
Speaker 2: of the season, and you know, you had to have
Speaker 2: a membership that understood that that we're okay with it
Speaker 2: taking those three years, and also understanding that, you know,
Speaker 2: your maintenance levels are going to be lower because you're
Speaker 2: really your number one priorities to get this project completed.
Speaker 2: So they were very supportive during it. So that helped tremendously.
Speaker 2: And then I think just having a staff that bought
Speaker 2: into it was enormous. I mean they I didn't lose
Speaker 2: anybody from that full time staff, and really we worked
Speaker 2: about six guys on the project every day all you know,
Speaker 2: all day, and then we'd have a few more on
Speaker 2: the golf course. You know, they go out in mowgraines
Speaker 2: and change cups and whatever. But you know, I was
Speaker 2: very I was on the project the entire time myself.
Speaker 2: I mean I dug every drainage, every drainage line out
Speaker 2: there that there is today. I did it. I checked
Speaker 2: it myself. And so then the crew would follow me
Speaker 2: up on the with the tile on the rock, and
Speaker 2: you know, I had a sod crew, Tim would run
Speaker 2: the side crew, my assistant you know, that would come
Speaker 2: inside the bunkers and then we go in and put
Speaker 2: the put the sand in.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That was this one for just a bunker style project.
Speaker 2: That's how we would handle it.
Speaker 1: So you're talking like you're getting four, four or five
Speaker 1: holes done a year essentially.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And well, yeah, I mean the first year we
Speaker 2: did three, and then we really went after the spring
Speaker 2: and you know we went basically went five and then nine.
Speaker 2: I mean the last year we really went strong.
Speaker 1: For the staff, it had to be so fun.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean there was definitely days. I mean,
Speaker 2: and we learned a lot through the project, just better
Speaker 2: ways to manage it and to be more productive than
Speaker 2: we were to start. So you know, I remember the
Speaker 2: first day doing doing some shaping and I said oh,
Speaker 2: our dump truck will be able to haul a the dirt.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't need to have a trailer. And
Speaker 2: then when he got done carving around Number one Green,
Speaker 2: I'm like, we need two trailers. I mean one dump
Speaker 2: truck's knocking be near enough. You know, it was little
Speaker 2: things like I mean we were just driving up there
Speaker 2: after lunch and looking at the pile of dirt and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, what are we going to
Speaker 2: do with this? So you know, we had to kind
Speaker 2: of kick it up a notch on different piece of equipment.
Speaker 2: That worked out better.
Speaker 1: But that sounds like when you when you're moving and
Speaker 1: you're look and you're like, oh, we'll be done in
Speaker 1: like a couple hours, and it's like eight hours later
Speaker 1: and you're like, I still got a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
Speaker 1: With with bunkers, how did you guys go about the
Speaker 1: process of like drainage and whether you're doing a liner
Speaker 1: or one of the new you know better billy bunker
Speaker 1: or capillary.
Speaker 2: So we just we didn't put liners in being that
Speaker 2: they're just pretty much grass faced. They're all fescuer around
Speaker 2: all rise octomius fescier around the outside edges. So and
Speaker 2: with the flat bottoms, I decided we didn't really need
Speaker 2: a liner, so basically we just drained them and put
Speaker 2: put sand in.
Speaker 1: Pand and so it's just it's just you just got
Speaker 1: a drain edge at the bottom and no liner.
Speaker 2: Correct, And it's a local sand came from thirty miles away.
Speaker 2: So you know, we paid like eighteen dollars a ton,
Speaker 2: and a lot of that was based on being in
Speaker 2: the floodplain. You know, I side it's not worth when
Speaker 2: you have these bunkers flood to then you have to
Speaker 2: go and replace the lineries. You have to bring in
Speaker 2: sand from wherever you're bringing it in from, whether it's
Speaker 2: pro Angle or you know, some of these newer sands
Speaker 2: that they're that are they're using these other courses, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just would rather be able to call
Speaker 2: and get you know, fifteen tons in if we need it.
Speaker 1: I mean, probably a fifth of the price of some
Speaker 1: of those. Oh it was for sure, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and then the other thing is it looks like a
Speaker 1: course from nineteen oh four exactly.
Speaker 2: In fact, Ronie even comment how it's almost a little
Speaker 2: too white for him.
Speaker 1: So you know, ront leather, you know, give it, give
Speaker 1: it a summer and it'll be change the color will
Speaker 1: So you just touched on flooding. Obviously, Iowa is a
Speaker 1: very Floods happen here a lot. You know, you get
Speaker 1: these epic rainstorms and and then you got this rolling
Speaker 1: terrain with the golf course. What what are flood events like?
Speaker 1: And what did what did you guys do during the
Speaker 1: rest renovation process to address and help some of your
Speaker 1: flood issues.
Speaker 2: Oh, we improved our We instilled all kinds of drainage
Speaker 2: and improved our drainage. And actually a lot of the
Speaker 2: bunkers really sit in lower is to collect the water
Speaker 2: and then discharge through the drainage system. So you know,
Speaker 2: Ron would always find these natural lows to put the
Speaker 2: bunkers in, and you know that would help when dewatering
Speaker 2: the golf course. And then we have we still have
Speaker 2: some swells to put in on a few of the
Speaker 2: fairways to help dewater also. But you know our typical now,
Speaker 2: our typical water if we if we get of four
Speaker 2: and a half inch rain and we fill the bottom
Speaker 2: side fills up. Because really we have about ten holes
Speaker 2: that are affected by the flood plain or by flooding.
Speaker 2: You know, they'll they'll dewater in a normal event within
Speaker 2: twenty four hours and we'll be open for playing a
Speaker 2: couple of days.
Speaker 1: I imagine. One of the frustrating things from your standpoint
Speaker 1: with the flood the low areas is that the playing
Speaker 1: conditions you've got the property, you've got these this great
Speaker 1: you know, dramatic rolling hills up at the top. Then
Speaker 1: you go down to the low area and the river
Speaker 1: bed and those those the holes up top probably play
Speaker 1: so much differently after rain events than the bottom ones
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 2: And in fact, but over the years, you know, there's
Speaker 2: been so much sand that has been brought in from
Speaker 2: the creek that actually they those bottom fairways been top
Speaker 2: dressed so much that they actually play pretty firm even
Speaker 2: after the water. I mean, it's amazing how dry those
Speaker 2: fairways can get down there. Now they will get localized
Speaker 2: a lot because of that, because all the same they
Speaker 2: get naturally top dressed every year.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by localize, So.
Speaker 2: You know, basically when you get real dry, you'll get
Speaker 2: these localized dryers that just happen, and they're a lot
Speaker 2: is because of sand top dressing. So you know, you
Speaker 2: have to go in and aerify them and try to
Speaker 2: get some way and agents on them to help push
Speaker 2: water through those profiles.
Speaker 1: Gotcha. That's uh, it's interesting the natural It's almost like
Speaker 1: the floods bring stuff that's good for them.
Speaker 2: And it changes, you know, over the years. You know,
Speaker 2: it's amazing how we put this new irrigation system in,
Speaker 2: or put the irrigation system in in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: and some of the heads now are maybe two inches
Speaker 2: below the surface because of just the sand and silt
Speaker 2: over the top.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: And you can try to sweep that all you want off,
Speaker 2: but you can never get to that.
Speaker 1: How has that affected like approaches into greens at.
Speaker 2: All, Not as much as I've noticed, because most of
Speaker 2: the greens are elevated enough to where it doesn't affect
Speaker 2: the approach. But it has affected areas along the creek,
Speaker 2: and it will affect your normal drainage swals too. You
Speaker 2: know that that helped the water. I mean those will
Speaker 2: get kind of filled up, so you have to make
Speaker 2: sure to grade those back out the way they.
Speaker 1: Were, and I bet the water the way different ways
Speaker 1: water move have changed a.
Speaker 2: Little bit, well for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a drainage is it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I mean, you wish you could just you know, take it.
Speaker 2: You wish you could have a year to where you
Speaker 2: could just take a dozer and just create some nice
Speaker 2: drainage area, you know, swals and areas to where you know,
Speaker 2: water sits and not have to worry about putting the
Speaker 2: turf right back, you know, just just to help dewater.
Speaker 1: You guys have done some of those. We have talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the decision to do those, and
Speaker 1: I feel like so many people are so many clubs
Speaker 1: are afraid to do something like a area like a
Speaker 1: ditch or a area that takes the water on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in between seven and eleven we did that.
Speaker 2: You know, seven needs to be real wet or what
Speaker 2: fair way anyway, and it had a pond, but then
Speaker 2: that's all really had. So we we eliminated the pond
Speaker 2: and created this this big loll that goes all the
Speaker 2: way back to the to the creek and basically it's
Speaker 2: set up for when there, when the water rises, it
Speaker 2: will fill in, but then it will it will flow
Speaker 2: out when the when the creek goes back down, but
Speaker 2: the fairway stays dry. So that was a whole objective
Speaker 2: of that, and we have more of that to do and.
Speaker 1: It's worked really well. It has so you in the
Speaker 1: in the future that's you know's on my list here
Speaker 1: I've got with that ongoing work, you you guys are
Speaker 1: going to continue to add more and more of those
Speaker 1: we are. It's and then for most of the year,
Speaker 1: ninety year is just a a rough area just yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And and for you know, there's so many places with
Speaker 1: flood concerns, especially I think about local municipal golf where
Speaker 1: I'm from, and every single golf course was built in
Speaker 1: a floodplain, and when there's big rain, all of them flood. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like none of them have anywhere that takes
Speaker 1: on the water.
Speaker 2: Though. You know, if you can create those areas, I
Speaker 2: would highly recommend it. And every area of the golf
Speaker 2: course doesn't have to be perfect. I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be manicured perfect. You can make those areas
Speaker 2: waste areas. You know, you can still play out of them.
Speaker 2: It's just I feel like when you don't do it,
Speaker 2: water just sits everywhere that it's not supposed to do
Speaker 2: or that you don't want it to.
Speaker 1: It's been more effective than the pond.
Speaker 2: Was absolutely why because it can flow out, Okay, the
Speaker 2: pond will still hold the water. And as the pond
Speaker 2: raises up and gets flooded, it's you know, nothing can
Speaker 2: drain into it. So as even though the creek will
Speaker 2: go down, the pond doesn't go down near as fast.
Speaker 2: And so now can dewater out into the creek versus
Speaker 2: be stuck into the pond?
Speaker 1: Could you build more ways to get water into it? Also?
Speaker 2: You could?
Speaker 1: For sure that makes it because like with a pond,
Speaker 1: you can't have it. There's only so much earthwork you
Speaker 1: could do around it, right, exactly interesting, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of places probably could use it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we could use more of it also.
Speaker 1: Uh huh. So outside of that, what else? All right,
Speaker 1: you're you know, ongoing work. I imagine every time you
Speaker 1: take a walk you see seven more thank you want.
Speaker 2: I mean, we still have some fairways a tie and
Speaker 2: we still have you know, bunker edges, some fairways of
Speaker 2: tie in to the bunkers where maybe we you know,
Speaker 2: we put the fescio around the edge, the leading edge
Speaker 2: going in the fairway where now we're going to you know,
Speaker 2: reduce that and make that bank grass going into them.
Speaker 2: Still have some trees here and there to remove just
Speaker 2: to help open up some vistas and just for lines
Speaker 2: of play. We have a bridge to replace. It's just
Speaker 2: a maintenance bridge. It's just unsightly on number seventeen that
Speaker 2: kind of takes away your view from the fairway to
Speaker 2: the green that we need to move upstream.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Still some car path removal. You know, we really haven't
Speaker 2: seen you know, for anybody out there that's scared of
Speaker 2: removing car paths, we really haven't seen much damage from
Speaker 2: removing the car pass and we've had and we've had
Speaker 2: two of the whatest years on records, So I mean,
Speaker 2: I just like them to scatter and drive wherever they
Speaker 2: want to. Basically, I think it helps and they stay
Speaker 2: away from the greens and tees. But uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we still have some car path removal. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we just little things. It's really a lot of minor
Speaker 2: things that we have to yet to do.
Speaker 1: What in terms of the club, since you guys have
Speaker 1: done all this work, you know, the golf course has
Speaker 1: kind of undergone this transformation. Have you seen a culture
Speaker 1: change with with the people around the club. Do they
Speaker 1: understand more of what you're doing than to say, when
Speaker 1: you started in two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I think especially in the last few years,
Speaker 2: they're seeing more and more of the changes that have
Speaker 2: made a huge difference. You know. We we've seen actually
Speaker 2: scores go down from the from the member tee than
Speaker 2: they were or to the restoration, so that that helps.
Speaker 2: I think just the you know, the highlights of where
Speaker 2: we stand today versus where we stood in two thousand
Speaker 2: and two from ratings and whatnot. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: people are really proud of to be a member here.
Speaker 1: Have you seen anything from like the way they take
Speaker 1: care of the course they are there? Do you are
Speaker 1: they more mindful of of divots or ball marks or
Speaker 1: do they is there more walking or is there same
Speaker 1: amount of cart traffic as you used to have.
Speaker 2: I'd say that I would I would say they've always
Speaker 2: been really good about taking care of the golf course.
Speaker 2: You know, you're always gonna have. They get more upset
Speaker 2: if you have an outing, which we don't thankfully we
Speaker 2: don't have a lot anymore, but they'd be upset if
Speaker 2: we had an outing and they didn't put there. You know,
Speaker 2: it's when you know, as your debts aren't being replaced
Speaker 2: and your ball marks aren't being fixed. But from a
Speaker 2: membership standpoint, they've always been really good about taking care
Speaker 2: of it. As far as cart traffic goes, i'd say
Speaker 2: more people walk, but we have moved into a a
Speaker 2: little younger member movement as far as the age goes
Speaker 2: to where you know, I like to ride and have
Speaker 2: a good time.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's interesting that you would think that
Speaker 1: should be the opposite way, younger members more walking.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right, yeah, it just doesn't fit them.
Speaker 1: That's kind of ironic.
Speaker 2: I like they, you know, they like to get out
Speaker 2: and have a good time, and they like to get
Speaker 2: around and and you know, especially you know, we have
Speaker 2: like a Wednesday night men's league that likes to have fun,
Speaker 2: and so they like to get as much Gothic as
Speaker 2: they can in three hours. So you know that's that's fun.
Speaker 1: No, I agree you late night trying to squeeze in holes.
Speaker 1: I think we've all enjoyed the speed and which a
Speaker 1: cart can.
Speaker 2: Guess You're around for sure exactly.
Speaker 1: In terms that you just you've mentioned something about you
Speaker 1: do less outings than you used to do. Was that
Speaker 1: like a conscious decision by the club or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think we were just trying to
Speaker 2: keep it open for membership play. You know, it's uh
Speaker 2: less wear and tear, and I personally I feel that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're having six or eight or ten
Speaker 2: outings in town from you know, in town businesses, that
Speaker 2: it's limits maybe your membership just because they can come
Speaker 2: out and play ten times, you know, So I feel like,
Speaker 2: make it a little more exclusive. Maybe it creates a
Speaker 2: little better membership.
Speaker 1: And they would. A lot of those happen on Mondays exactly,
Speaker 1: and that obviously limits what you can do correct.
Speaker 2: And it does take care, It does take away from
Speaker 2: our maintenance because we are close till noon on Mondays
Speaker 2: for maintenance.
Speaker 1: So your members can play afternoon afternoon Lincoln, Uh huh
Speaker 1: is that has that always been the case or is
Speaker 1: that that has been? Okay, that's it and so but
Speaker 1: that whole given that half a day, even without any play.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. I mean, you know, it's when we top dress,
Speaker 2: that's when we spray, and that's getting ahead of the
Speaker 2: getting ahead of the crowd, you know. And Mondays have
Speaker 2: gotten slower, it becomes slower just because of that. We'll
Speaker 2: get people after three maybe, but you know, they know
Speaker 2: that we're out there doing our thing, so they don't
Speaker 2: get out there too early on Monday afternoon.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. So in terms of cedar rapidsly,
Speaker 1: you know the trees. Obviously you look at the before
Speaker 1: and after, it's a very shocking change. How did you
Speaker 1: get all the trees down and removed for low cost?
Speaker 1: Because I think that's obviously one of the big barriers
Speaker 1: is cost.
Speaker 2: It is I had a really good assistant that wasn't
Speaker 2: afraid to cut down a tree and his back was
Speaker 2: about four feet wide. But we you know, I contracted
Speaker 2: out a lot of stuff around the greens, but everything
Speaker 2: basically from tea to green we did most of it
Speaker 2: in house, and so he was just got really good
Speaker 2: at it. And so you know, we'd run a chipper.
Speaker 2: We're fortunate to have a company in town that they
Speaker 2: remembers that really helped us out through the whole process,
Speaker 2: and so you know that they've always taken care of
Speaker 2: us on those type of things. And so we could
Speaker 2: run a chipper and we had the saus and we
Speaker 2: have a stump grubber from nineteen sixty nine, so it
Speaker 2: still runs. So I mean it amazing. They even had
Speaker 2: a stump grubber back in nineteen sixty nine, because all
Speaker 2: they did was plant trees. But anyway, it's it was
Speaker 2: never that big of a deal, I don't think. I mean,
Speaker 2: you could always see what the end product was going
Speaker 2: to be. So we went after it. And it was
Speaker 2: a lot a lot of the trees were just planted
Speaker 2: over the years, and so they hadn't no reason to
Speaker 2: even be planned. Where they were planning. It was an
Speaker 2: arbous that worked for the club that they would just
Speaker 2: bring in two hundred trees every year and he would
Speaker 2: just be told to go fill in spots, and so
Speaker 2: there was actually no rhyme or reason for doing it.
Speaker 1: You've taken out a ton tree. There's still a ton
Speaker 1: of trees. I mean, you guys have so many great
Speaker 1: majestic oaks. It would be absolutely And that's like the
Speaker 1: thing you're just the trees that are great trees are
Speaker 1: now more and more exposed, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, no, mature properly, you know. It's I mean, the
Speaker 2: they never had any air or never any light to
Speaker 2: to really grow the way they were meant to grow.
Speaker 2: And so, uh, it was there all these trees are
Speaker 2: playing in amongst all the beautiful oaks. You couldn't even
Speaker 2: see them before.
Speaker 1: That's the thing I think people get misconstrued so much,
Speaker 1: is like when you talk about tree management, it's not
Speaker 1: just clear cutting all the trees. It's no, it's allowing
Speaker 1: the great trees that have matured and that are indigenous
Speaker 1: to the area to show to shine.
Speaker 2: You know, I would agree one hundred percent. I mean
Speaker 2: that's what we did. We were to specify which were
Speaker 2: which trees we needed to keep, I mean, which were
Speaker 2: the highlighted trees, and we'd keep those and then cut
Speaker 2: down the junk around them.
Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, it was there a moment when I mean,
Speaker 1: you've been working here for a long time, you're taking
Speaker 1: down trees, and you uncovered something that you didn't even realize. Like,
Speaker 1: were you shocked at how much the transformation changed the
Speaker 1: way you look at the golf course and property.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I mean you vision it at first,
Speaker 2: and I think really when we started and finished one,
Speaker 2: four and ten, you saw kind of what you could
Speaker 2: really have. But until maybe the last three years, four years,
Speaker 2: it's really shined and you become so proud of what
Speaker 2: you never would have realized it.
Speaker 1: You open up those those great long views and then that,
Speaker 1: I mean the stars, that topography that you just don't
Speaker 1: you know, see it at a lot of places. It's
Speaker 1: like kind of the unique trait characteristic you got here
Speaker 1: is this unbelievable setting, and you know, if it's not showing.
Speaker 2: Right, And I mean I could tell you right now
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five, two thousand and four, I
Speaker 2: didn't take any pictures out here. I mean, no, I
Speaker 2: can't go out here on the morning and not take
Speaker 2: a picture. I mean, it's like it's just so beautiful.
Speaker 2: I mean taking photos from every angle. And in the
Speaker 2: evening it's beautiful, you know, as the sun's going down.
Speaker 2: It's just you get so many great photos.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, I think, I imagine, I don't know. Obviously
Speaker 1: you're not playing with the membership, but there is a
Speaker 1: much more sense of intimacy on the golf course as well,
Speaker 1: like where you're kind of in amongst everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're not cornered off all the time, and all
Speaker 1: you can see what's going around you. You can see
Speaker 1: who's out on the golf course. And that's it's a club,
Speaker 1: it's a social you know, gathering spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear, guys, you know, I'll hear guys from
Speaker 2: five Green yelling at guys on nine coming up. You know,
Speaker 2: where are you at? Where are you staying? You know,
Speaker 2: it's it creates creates a great game, you know, the conversation.
Speaker 2: And you know before it was just you know, line
Speaker 2: up every fairway with trees and try to isolate every hole,
Speaker 2: and it just creates I don't know, it's a whole
Speaker 2: different deal.
Speaker 1: I wonder you probably could get some find some cool
Speaker 1: pictures of like, I don't know, I imagine a lot
Speaker 1: of people watch the club Championship out here. Oh, it's
Speaker 1: like the Club Championship in two thousand and four, like
Speaker 1: with all the carts and everybody out there watching versus
Speaker 1: like you know today, yeah, or you're.
Speaker 2: Like our remember guests. It's just crazy when you see
Speaker 2: all the carts everywhere and people flowing everywhere, and it's
Speaker 2: you can get pictures from you know, the top of two,
Speaker 2: or you know down on three teen. You can go
Speaker 2: all the way across to five and fourteen you see
Speaker 2: people everywhere. Or I can go outside our shop on
Speaker 2: ten and take pictures across thirteen and eighteen and fifteen
Speaker 2: and see just traffic everywhere. You know, where. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's so cool.
Speaker 1: It just exposes the scale of the place so much
Speaker 1: more too, because you see people climbing these big hills
Speaker 1: exactly to these greens, and you see the long view
Speaker 1: of how this landform just like flows into the green.
Speaker 1: It's just that's the cool thing that tree removal does.
Speaker 2: Is it just and it opens it up and it
Speaker 2: creates I mean, honestly, I think it even creates different
Speaker 2: shots because of the wind, you know that they never
Speaker 2: had to deal with before, because now the trees are
Speaker 2: you know, minimize so much that they don't have that
Speaker 2: issue with the shade and the and the cover of
Speaker 2: the tree.
Speaker 1: You know, agronomically, obviously, it had to make a big, oh, unbelievable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's you know, is there any green in particular that
Speaker 1: went from being essentially like a brutal to grow grass
Speaker 1: on them? Now it's like one of your best ones.
Speaker 2: I'd say, you know, four two, four ten, those were
Speaker 2: our worst greens one number one, sixteen. I mean, I
Speaker 2: mean those greens were our worst greens. I remember them
Speaker 2: coming out of winter and they'd hold water, you know,
Speaker 2: water run over the top of them. I mean it
Speaker 2: was you know, they'd have all kinds of ice damage
Speaker 2: and water damage. Less ice damage, a lot less ice damage.
Speaker 2: Now no water really water doesn't sit on them anymore.
Speaker 1: I imagine that the weather swing here, it's one of
Speaker 1: the most severe, you know, in terms of heat and cold.
Speaker 2: And especially you know, you know, we go from sixty
Speaker 2: degrees to you know, last week rure below zero. So
Speaker 2: it's especially with old bent pole of greens like we have,
Speaker 2: you know, they but they're old perennial type of bent
Speaker 2: or a poe, so you know, the pole has adapted
Speaker 2: over the years to those to that environment.
Speaker 1: So you've done a lot of expansions. How have you
Speaker 1: gone about grassing the greens, so.
Speaker 2: They've the expansions were basically just core them out and
Speaker 2: then we just use plugs from the green to expand
Speaker 2: them out. Like the right side thirteen, we expand that
Speaker 2: out quite a bit, and so we just stripped it
Speaker 2: and added sand and then just threw cores in on
Speaker 2: the right hand side, so it was all the same grass.
Speaker 1: So like course, from the from the existing green, uh huh, okay,
Speaker 1: from the verification exactly, you just throw the plugs over
Speaker 1: there right over there, just not I hear a lot
Speaker 1: of people do that and grow a nursery from that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just threw it into.
Speaker 2: That, just dumped them right over there from that green.
Speaker 1: How how long did that take to have.
Speaker 2: We did it in the fall and it was opened
Speaker 2: that spring, and you sent the same grass, the same
Speaker 2: exact grass.
Speaker 1: That's kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you never know what even added on to it.
Speaker 2: It's so much better than buying bent grass and putting
Speaker 2: into an old ben green. I mean you should. I
Speaker 2: mean we would always use cores. We did the same
Speaker 2: thing one five. We expand that back left corner. We
Speaker 2: did the same thing with that.
Speaker 1: That's neat. Uh So thanks, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for coming to Cedar Rappins.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean my pleasure. It's coming from coming.
Speaker 2: Hey, coming the summer next time I'm going to it.
Speaker 1: You know, this is Uh, I've got myself booked up
Speaker 1: a couple of times on the road this way. Might
Speaker 1: see me too much. Now, awesome, that's the problem you're
Speaker 1: going to say. You gotta get rid of this guy.
Speaker 2: Hey, you're always welcome.
Speaker 1: Thanks. Uh and uh, people can find you on Twitter,
Speaker 1: they can absolutely You're handled at Tom Feller.
Speaker 2: At c R C C soup c R C C soup.
Speaker 1: I knew that. I'm gonna write that down.
Speaker 2: You got.
Speaker 1: You on Instagram, you know, let's like it crazy. Twitter
Speaker 1: is tough enough. You can pass lesson and knowledge on
Speaker 1: and information. On Instagram, it's more just pretty pictures, you know.
Speaker 1: The twitters where the yeah, all right, thanks so much,
Speaker 1: thank you,